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SpringHeeledJack
24th May 2008, 14:32
I was sitting this morning outside a cafe sipping the proverbial cuppa and reading the papers, the sun dappling gently on one's bonce, all was well in the world except.......that there's a mini-roundabout a few metres away and one's attention was drawn time and again to the antics of the motorists.

Almost without exception every vehicle drove over the middle of said mini-roundabout and this seemed to bring about untold stress and near disaster to a great many of the drivers. There was enough space for the 'normal' circumnavigation of said MR, and there were give way signs and markings at all four entry/exit points, yet due to the driving over the top of said MR (generally very aggressively) the other 'roundaboutees' were often as not then impeded and then they had to.........on and on.......(good job that i can lip read :})

I can understand if one is a bus/truck driver that it might not be possible to do anything else but drive over the top, but normal drivers ??? Since when do the laws of the road NOT apply to these MRs ? To be honest if it was the middle of the night i would drive over it, but during the day when it is an implement to guide the safe passage of many vehicles through a junction i would always treat it as if it were a half metre high.

Whats happened whilst i was round the back having a crafty smoke ?


Regards


SHJ

jb2_86_uk
24th May 2008, 16:47
[devil's advocate]

In the current economical climate, drivers may feel the need to cut said MR's in favour of minimizing wear on brakes, gearbox, clutch, tyres ("tires" for the americans - but then again Joe California probably doesnt know what a round about is) and steering components - favorable at the expense of a small compression cycle of the suspension components.

[/devil's advocate]

I dont condone these actions during the day time or any time there are other vehicles/pedestrians/police men in the direct vacinity, however during the night or if there are no other road users around I would also proceed OVER the MR simply to make life easier on me.

Theres a time and place for this kind of driving behaviour, and it is people acting in such a mannar at inappropriate instances that make it so blindingly obvious how silly and careless it is - made apparent by any passengers I may be carrying to moan when i bypass a MR at 1am on an empty road!

JB

edit: retyped last paragraph to make more sense

Rollingthunder
24th May 2008, 16:52
I fail to see the logical reasoning for these traffic impediments. Only seen in Britain?

oldshuck
24th May 2008, 16:56
We've got them here (lowestoft) ish and I have to say that "mini" is the right term.

Most of them are too small to drive round which seems a bit pointless,so you have to drive over them

SpringHeeledJack
24th May 2008, 17:27
That's a good point oldshuck, they are small and flat, BUT they are a legal traffic controlling 'device' and why should a motorist in reasonable traffic drive over an MP (sounds tempting when it's about them lot in parliament :E) and not the larger types......? It's like saying that a stop sign doesn't really mean stop if everyone agrees that it's "not really a stop sign", but the other stop signs are.

I'm not a pedantic driver, but it just seemed from this mornings palava that the ignoring of said traffic laws created continuous problems, in the form of aggresive shouting and gesticulating :ugh: (behind car windows) and multiple near-misses.

Rollingthunder

I have driven around roundabouts in the US of A and some years ago too, i believe that they were referred to as a 'rotary'.

At least in the UK they aren't set up like the old French types whereby the motorists coming onto the roundabout had right of way. Imagine the rumpus that that would cause :eek:


Regards


SHJ

frostbite
24th May 2008, 17:52
It is actually an 'offence' to drive over them, or even clip them with a wheel.

There was a spate of over-zealous prosecutions for this a few years ago, but the enthusiasm appeared to wear off when some Courts threw out the charges because of impossible road layout in some cases.

oldshuck
24th May 2008, 18:02
I rest my case Frostbite we have some that you can't actually drive round they are in such narrow roads you can only do it on a bike

Standard Noise
24th May 2008, 18:12
Learnt to drive and took my test in Canterbury, Kent. Feckin' place had an abundance of mini-roundabouts.:ugh:

But the problem I find, certainly where I live, is that people think the have right of way when they're 20 yards from the feckin' things. They expect you to wait for them to get to the roundabout so they can go in front of you. One in particular used to be a T junction. Most peeps coming from the right, race to the roundabout as if it's their God given right to go through it regardless of what's happening or who's already using it. W4nkers!

None of the above
24th May 2008, 18:38
This morning, apart from the usual quota of 'drive over' motorists, I saw two cars make a right turn by simply cutting out the roundabout altogether. In essence they drove around the roundabout in the wrong direction.

At least they signalled.

G-CPTN
24th May 2008, 19:16
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1246/1126310866_53ceda7ad6.jpg
http://www.strum.co.uk/pix/mr.jpg

Blues&twos
24th May 2008, 19:31
G-CPTN, I bet people still cut across four lanes at the last second....

Blacksheep
24th May 2008, 19:34
I feel sorry for visitors to UK who arrive at Heathrow, rent a car and head out onto our roads.There's a cluster of MRs not much simpler than that just after passing under the M4, by the Novotel.

They have roundabouts in Belgium too, but everybody without exception, drives round them the wrong way on purpose, so it works ok. I'm starting to get used to it. :ouch:

G-CPTN
24th May 2008, 19:51
We were living in Odense, Denmark in the mid 1980s when they built their first roundabout not 200 metres from where we were living.
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=55.353013&lon=10.3765923&z=18&l=0&m=s&v=2

Blacksheep
24th May 2008, 20:05
Hmmm. I see the Danes like to drive round their round abouts the wrong way too.

frostbite
24th May 2008, 21:11
They do sometimes have entertainment value when (say) three cars arrive at a T-junction MR all at the same time, and all give way to each other, then all move at once, and so on...

hippotamus
24th May 2008, 21:17
Standardnoise , would the mini roundabout in question be the one on the hill up to the University (St Stephens Hill I think) . The one where they put all the stupid speed blocks? I won't call them humps as they were in no way hump shaped. Rather they were designed to thump your wheels off line and knacker up your suspension. They also ensured that it was physically impossible to drive at the speed limit ( so what's the point in having a forty zone , if you can't drive at 40?) and lacked the momentum to actually make it up the hill in anything other than 1st.

I also loved Canterbury council's policy in cunningly locating zebra crossings less than 30ft from mini roundabouts , fun for both pedestrians and motorists alike :ugh::ugh:

ShyTorque
24th May 2008, 21:25
There are mini roundabouts in our local area too. One in particular is offset such that if a driver goes round as he is supposed to, it looks like he is turning left so the driver supposedly giving way pulls out in front..... It shouldn't be this way, but hardly anyone knows how to indicate properly, causing total confusion.

The local council decided to experiment with the town traffic flow, to try to avoid a bottleneck approaching traffic lights at a junction leading to the town's main car park. Instead of being allowed to merely drive straight on into the car park, drivers were made to turn left, go down the main street through three more sets of traffic lights, make a U turn at the notorious mini roundabout I first mentioned, go all the way back up the main drag, again through the three sets of lights and turn left at the original traffic lights. Total chaos ensued, grid-lock and accidents by the dozen at the mini roundabout. The council persisted with this madness until it was finally accepted that U turns at miniroundabouts are illegal and everything went back to normal; a minor re-phasing of the lights solved the initial problem.

Another thing that often occurs at these misfits of the road system: drivers approach from all directions, arrive at the roundabout at the same time and bottle out. Everyone then stops. No-one knows how to resolve this dilemma, to the annoyance of drivers behind, who weren't planning on stopping...

selfloadingcargo
24th May 2008, 21:35
At the risk of gentle thread creep, the Channel Islands have the answer to roundabouts; 'filter in turn' is operational at all roundabouts. There is no right of way as such - each road leading to a roundabout lets one car go from each road in (clockwise) rotation. Works a treat (except for when grockles are driving, who don't understand....but at least there is a red 'H' on their number plates so you have some warning.....)

Windy Militant
24th May 2008, 22:48
It's not just Mini roundabouts I've noticed over the years that drivers have no Idea how to follow a line. The number of numpties who take the tangent or cut the corner on roundabout exits are becoming a real annoyance. The other manoeuvre people seem to be unable to accomplish is making a square turn. The gorgonesque glowering I get for daring to position myself at the white line preventing these idle maladroits from taking their usual fortyfive degree cut across the junction, mind you that's not as bad as meeting them barreling into the end of the street when your trying to get out. :eek: For Pete's sake most cars nowadays have power steering so it's not like you have to put any real effort into it. :ugh:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
24th May 2008, 23:14
I didn't really understand any of that - especially the bit about a tangent which exists completely outside a circle, apart from one Euclidean point :8

John Hill
25th May 2008, 02:30
Mini roundabouts, in fact roundabouts of all sizes, are a favourite in Godzone. Someone mentioned Canterbury, well the antipodean Christchurch is extremely found of MRs and they generally work quite well.

MRs are a good idea and work well compared to, for example, a four way stop where the one with the gun racks gets to go first.

makintw
25th May 2008, 06:30
Ahhhh - roundabouts.

Doubt we'd ever get them here in paradise (Taiwan) as the natives struggle at times coping with the red/orange/green thingies called traffic lights.

Traffic lights are almost their only solution at junctions, on dumb timers, no sensors :ugh:

Did have a couple of real roundabouts a few years back, but they were worse than the Frogs as it was a pure free-for-all...... Give way - 'tis for wimps

henry crun
25th May 2008, 06:39
John Hill: I suspect the folks from UK are referring not to a formed roundabout, but to the small white circles painted on the road in the middle of an intersection.

Have you seen these in NZ, if so where ?

John Hill
25th May 2008, 07:17
Henry, when I was learning to drive, c 1960, we had 'silent policemen', not much more than a metal marker in the middle of the intersection which you were to always pass with them on your right.

Nowadays there seem to be a large number of roundabouts in Christchurch, especially on the southern route from the Airport towards Hornby (?) and in Wellington, on Island Bay Parade, we have roundabouts that are slightly raised concrete circles in intersections that have not been enlarged in any way. There is another I know at the top of Constable Street on the route from Newtown to Kilbirnie and the Wellington Airport. There is another at the top end of Adelaide Road on the way to the Wellington Zoo.

At least in Wellington I suspect these 'flush roundabouts' are installed for the convenience of buses which must drive over them as going around such a small circle would be quite a problem.

I noticed a reference to driving over the "MRs" which gave me the impression of more than a circle of paint making me think they are very similar to those in Christchurch (on the Mainland) and Wellington (on the Pig Island).

I dont think I have ever seen a white paint roundabout though in theory they should be effective except of course in rain or darkness.

Incidently there is a genuine four way stop at an intersection on Cuba Street, Wellington, it is the only one I know in NZ.

BTW, there is a roundabout at Blenheim which has a railway running through it and another on the West Coast (between Westport and Hokitika) while at Napier there is a curious combination of two roundabouts and a railway track. Like the railway across the runway at Napier these must surely rank as some sort of international curiosity?

banana9999
25th May 2008, 10:51
Looks like some people need to learn the Highway Code - especially the thread originator.

It is NOT an offence to drive "over" a mini roundabout.

Other differences between "real" and mini roundabouts are:

You do not have to indicate left when leaving a mini roundabout

And another one that I cannot recollect at the moment :)

Windy Militant
25th May 2008, 11:38
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
The Blue line is how your supposed to do it. The red line is how most people actually do it, clear now.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/Peter_Anthony/roundabout.jpg

As to not crossing the bump, Rule 188 says you must pass it . A friend got done for this, admittedly he took the thing completely on the wrong side. The police wanted to make it reckless driving but the CPS held it as due care. If you don't attempt to go around the bump it's classed similarly to crossing a solid white line on a normal carriageway. However most drivers ignore this and you don't get Gatos's on mini roundabouts. ;)

ShyTorque
25th May 2008, 12:21
Looks like some people need to learn the Highway Code - especially the thread originator.

It is NOT an offence to drive "over" a mini roundabout.

Agree! Copied from Highway Code, 2007 revised edition, issued by Driver Standards Agency:

188. Mini roundabouts. Approach them in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so....

Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)

As I understand it, the use of the word "must" means it is mandated by law...

banana9999
25th May 2008, 12:29
I am suitably chastised. In my defence that has changed.

A lot of mini roundabouts are in places that replaced crossroads where there is not enough room to drive around them.

I am not off to investigate :)

banana9999
25th May 2008, 12:39
"The Highway Code is an official government document that gives advice and guidance on how to drive safely and within the law in Great Britain. However sometimes it is vague; such as advising you to take an appropriate lane at a roundabout if you are taking an intermediate exit . If you knew what the appropriate lane was you wouldn’t need to read the Highway Code. In other places it gives an actually incorrect interpretation of the relevant law. Some examples are shown below:

"Mini-roundabouts: The Highway code says (Rule 164): “Mini-roundabouts- Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass around the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so.”

The Road Traffic Act (from Hughes Guide to Road Traffic Law) says:

“Mini-Roundabout - Vehicular traffic entering the junction must give priority to vehicles from the right at the give-way line, or, if that is not clearly visible, at the road junction AND proceed past the marking at the centre in the direction shown by the arrows unless the size of the vehicle or the layout of the junction makes it impractical to do so”

"As you can see the Highway Code mis-states the Road Traffic Law and doesn’t make sense - because sometimes you have to go over a mini-roundabout, and you are not driving a large vehicle."

SpringHeeledJack
25th May 2008, 14:25
Well as 'the originator' of the thread, it's nice to see that there are others of a like mind regarding these mini magic roundabouts. Unless i'm mistaken, the 2 quoted interpretations of the highway code in the UK on this thread (and perhaps in other countries as well) is that motorists MUST drive around the roundabout as though it were a "proper" roundabout unless physically unable, i.e bus/ truck/ brontesaurus etc.

IMHO all of the crashes/near-misses/aggressive behaviour/stress IS caused by motorists driving directly over the MR, thus turning said MR into a T-junction or 4-way again......Perhaps my MR experience yesterday was not the average one, within an area of wealth, perhaps the majority of the motorists in 'chelsea tractors' driving with the same consideration and sense of entitlement that they can express in other areas of their lives OR perhaps it was that the MR was so offset that it was destined to bring about this behaviour in people. On said MR is WAS possible to navigate it normally for all but the largest vehicles.

Whatever the cause, i believe that IF the motorists had driven as much as possible around the MR, then things would have been less fraught. I hereby propose that ALL MRs to have a ridge of 150cm approx around them to dissuade transgressors and for those who must (brontesaurus riders etc) no damage to their steeds.


Regards


SHJ

Standard Noise
25th May 2008, 20:30
hippotamus - nah, not Brizzel, I'm talking about Wells, Zummerset. I turn into a monster when I go up to the big city, you know what they say, when in Rome.:}

Blacksheep
25th May 2008, 21:09
I've always considered that the purpose of a mini-roundabout is the same as a normal roundabout - to define priority.

In UK you give way at the dotted line at the entry to the roundabout, to traffic coming from your right side. Its so simple. Once you are clear to go it makes no difference at all whether or not your offside wheels pass over any part of the white blob in the middle as, once you are clear to enter the roundabout, you have priority over all other vehicles joining from your left. Just as banana999's above quote from the rules implies.

At roundabouts with approach and exit lanes, you must stay in lane on your way round because there may (will) be other vehicles alongside you, but such roundabouts as shown in Windy Militant's picture aren't mini-roundabouts.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
25th May 2008, 22:20
Roundabouts of any type - mini or built-up - have one big disadvantage - they give equal prority to all directions, That's fine when all directions are similar roads, but often they are used on busy dual carriageways where minor roads cross. Queues build up on the major road, eventually perhaps a mile or so back, while a few cars on the minor road cause the traffic on the major road to stop while they cross.

Massive queues on the dual carriageway, 3 or 4 cars queueing on the crossing minor road.

It's cheap, I suppose. But it's madness!

SSD

None of the above
26th May 2008, 10:06
This letter appeared in yesterday's Sunday Times (In Gear section)

RIGHT OF WAY

Please can you offer some advice regarding mini-roundabouts with three exits, especially those that have replaced a T-junction where there is a natural “straight-ahead” route for two of the entries/exits. What often happens is that traffic on this “major” route tends to approach at too fast a speed and seems to assume right of way. The Highway Code states “give priority to traffic approaching from your right”, but also “watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout”.
If I have already entered the roundabout and someone from the main route enters after me from the right, am I correct in stating that I have right of way or should I give way to them, even though they have not yet entered? These mini-roundabouts really do infuriate me.

Andrew Bailey, Middlewich, Cheshire

It is worrying that so much confusion exists around (so to speak) roundabouts. The rules are simple and clear.


SundayTimes (http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/article3988447.ece)

Bushfiva
26th May 2008, 10:19
NZ

Isn't this a "if you are turning left, give way to vehicles coming towards you that are turning right" country? Very surprising first 5 minutes out of the airport, I had.

green granite
26th May 2008, 11:27
Whether the vehicle is on a mini roundabout or not is irrelavent, you give way to any vehicle approaching from the right. Give way means that you do NOT impead his/her/its progress in any way.

As for cutting across the centre of the mini roundabout consider the situation of 2 cars approaching from opposite directions, one to go straight on, one to turn right (in the UK)and then both enter the r/a at the same time. If the one turning right goes around the middle area he will pass behind the other car, if he tries to cut across the middle of it he will end up hitting the side of the other vehicle.

There is also of course the rule that might is right.:E

Guzzler
26th May 2008, 21:22
This is how to take roundabouts ... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JA0NMoJrSs)

Windy Militant
26th May 2008, 22:03
That must have been filmed in Swindon, he was indicating right as he left the roundabout. :=

John Hill
26th May 2008, 22:08
Bushfiva, Basil, yep thats right. In NZ, when turning left give way to vehicles coming towards you that are turning into the road you are turning in to. In other words, always give way to any vehicle that might hit the driver side of your vehicle. This is not such an onerous rule in practice as frequently the vehicle turning left has another behind it which of course the right turning vehicle will be waiting for so you get to turn left anyway.

Yes, pedestrians may have a green crossing light while a cross street has a green for traffic and vehicles give way for pedestrians when pedestrians have a green. So, when turning with a green (left or right) beware of pedestrians crossing the road you are turning in to.

reynoldsno1
26th May 2008, 22:29
Don't know about NZ but a 'Gotcha!' for visitors to Oz is getting a traffic light green whilst pedestrians on the left and right junctions are also getting a green
Same in NZ (it's in the Road Code)- have put a few dents in a few panels with me foot
Isn't this a "if you are turning left, give way to vehicles coming towards you that are turning right" country?
Yes. Stupid rule - really, really stupid. They were going to change it back to the rule the rest of the world uses, the the politician in charge found it too difficult. He matches the rule.

The first mini roundabout in the UK was at Upton Cross in Dorset, established nearly 40 years ago. It is also the location of my first road traffic accident :uhoh:

John Hill
27th May 2008, 01:46
I think some PPRuners should resit their driving tests!

http://funny.karmark.org/Funny%20pictures/images/drivingtestquestion_jpg.jpg

Windy Militant
27th May 2008, 09:03
Ah reminds me of riding my old CB 900FZ into Oxford on my way to the Poly. I followed a gal who'd presumably been doing rowing training across Donnington Bridge. I got a bit Target fixated shall we say and had to do some extremely heavy braking to avoid planting my rocker boxes into the two cars at the end of the queue as she disappeared between them! :O

Blacksheep
27th May 2008, 09:12
I see you're in Swindon, Windy. Back in the 70's they erected a nightmare collection of mini-roundabouts on the way into Swindon; a bit like G-CPTN's photo but less well organized. To stop people driving through them, they placed old tyres in the middle of each. Like many others, I coped with the confusion by treating it as one big roundabout and driving all the way round the outside. Is it still there?

ZH875
27th May 2008, 10:03
Having watched a program where they developed Swindon's Magic Roundabout, they tyres were used as they were working out the best layout for the :mad: thing, and the tyres could be moved around to give the best layout.

henry crun
27th May 2008, 11:07
Did the end result look anything like this nightmare ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/crun9/magicroundabout.jpg

BBE777
27th May 2008, 11:37
hahahahah omg that cant be true....:}

i would just jump over aaaaaallll of them, safe you time and getting dizzy

G-CPTN
27th May 2008, 12:25
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=51.5628221&lon=-1.7714569&z=19&l=0&m=s&v=2

You can pan and zoom (and change view to 'map').

S'land
27th May 2008, 12:28
That magic roundabout plan for Swindon reminds me of the two horrors from the seventies in Hemel Hempstead (coming down from the M1) and High Wycombe (bottom of Marlow Hill). Hated both of the B*+T*%$s.

G-CPTN
27th May 2008, 12:57
Colchester:-
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=51.8844435&lon=0.9327865&z=19&l=0&m=s&v=2
High Wycombe:-
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=51.6270321&lon=-0.750635&z=19&l=0&m=s&v=2
and Hemel Hempstead:-
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=51.7462795&lon=-0.4732972&z=19&l=0&m=a&v=2

BBE777
27th May 2008, 13:05
G-CPTN Satellite image of the Swindon roundabout.
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=51.5628221...19&l=0&m=s&v=2 (http://wikimapia.org/#lat=51.5628221&lon=-1.7714569&z=19&l=0&m=s&v=2)


hehehehe there one infractor!!!!!!!!!!

god I'll be have my post full of traffic tickets heheheheh

Grayfly
27th May 2008, 13:17
I have been driving in the UK for nearly 40 years and have often wondered when the rules at roundabouts changed. I can't find anywhere in the highway code that advises that on a two lane carriageway approaching a roundabout and you want to turn right, you install yourself in the lane nearest the pavement and then do a 270 degree around the roundabout.

Is this now an acceptable method of using a roundabout as it is very common in my part of the world, SE England?

Windy Militant
27th May 2008, 14:25
I've just realised I missed a major point in the instructional video It was a BMW indicating. It must be a collectors item it has winkers that work. :rolleyes:
The Magic roundabout's wonderful you can go round it backwards, so to speak. If you catch it right you can head off the traffic by going the long way round. Thereby gaining right of way over the rest of the crowd legally.
Actually the Magic's one of the safer roundabouts to traverse, the Cockleberry Roundabout (http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|swindon#map=51.56857,-1.78309|18|32&loc=GB:51.56933:-1.78302:14|swindon|) and Transfer bridges roundabouts on the Western Way are far more lethal due to dual carriageway being a straight run across, and people not slowing down never mind giving way. When I used to collect my mate from just off the Cockleberry you could guarantee to see at least one near miss a day and a shunt every week. Life's much less exciting these days, I only have to get across the Moonies mini roundabouts instead.
BBE 777 there's a ruddy great Lighting column in the middle to prevent people doing a Knievel. :ugh:
Grayfly, I believe that the buffalo gals (Who go round the outside) have an exemption check for the magic symbols A CND badge, one of those fish shaped things or a Terry Wogan "TOG" sticker. ;)

Bushfiva
27th May 2008, 14:48
as frequently the vehicle turning left has another behind it which of course the right turning vehicle will be waiting for so you get to turn left anyway

what??? Or, as PPRuNe would have me say, what???

Guzzler
27th May 2008, 14:51
That must have been filmed in Swindon, he was indicating right as he left the roundabout.


Your eyesight needs testing. The video does not show the exit - so how do you know he was still indicating right?

Windy Militant
27th May 2008, 16:18
so how do you know he was still indicating right?
TWo things Firstly it was a BMW so the driver probably didn't know what the clacking noise and little flashing light meant.
Secondly, years of sitting at the Sainsbury's Roundabout watching the ones that are indicating right leave the roundabout and the ones indicating left carrying on around it! :}

Guzzler
27th May 2008, 17:17
Quote:
so how do you know he was still indicating right?
TWo things Firstly it was a BMW so the driver probably didn't know what the clacking noise and little flashing light meant.
Secondly, years of sitting at the Sainsbury's Roundabout watching the ones that are indicating right leave the roundabout and the ones indicating left carrying on around it!

Ah - I see. A guess! Nothing like jumping to conclusions. :ugh:

Not all BMW drivers are tossers.;)

Windy Militant
27th May 2008, 17:26
Not all, but from empirical observation a large proportion are.
Also by deduction I can guess what Mr Guzzler drives. ;)
I'm rarely impressed by any cars, but have to admit that in the last week the Jowett Javelin and 3½ Blower Bentley I saw on my travels did cause a bit of a flutter. :ok:

Guzzler
27th May 2008, 17:34
Not all, but from empirical observation a large proportion are.


Fair enough. But the same could be said for most drivers regardless of brand preference in my opinion.

Also by deduction I can guess what Mr Guzzler drives.

Sharp!


I'm rarely impressed by any cars, but have to admit that in the last week I was tested by the Jowett Javelin and 3½ Blower Bentley I saw on my travels.

Here we agree! Until recently I did not 'get' classic cars. But now I have been watching re-runs of the Professionals on ITV4 I can't help but last after an old Capri, Escort or even a pristine Dolomite Sprint.

Anyway back to mini roundabouts!

Blacksheep
27th May 2008, 18:21
Didn't recognize the Swindon nightmare experiment without the tyres G-CPTN, but yes, that's the one. I knew it as an ordinary roundabout, then one day we drove into Swindon and ran straight into the maelstrom. I still don't know what was wrong with the original big roundabout.

As Charlton Heston said "So! They finally did it!"

Windy Militant
27th May 2008, 18:47
County Islands Ring Junction
On the old roundabout the saturation or the maximum amount of traffic you could get through the roundabout was 5,100 vehicles per hour.
"Using the five ring junction principle, with the five mini roundabouts that's there now, gave a capacity of 6,200. So that's the one we adopted.”
From The Man Behind the Magic roundabout. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/articles/2008/03/28/swindon_magic_roundabout_2008_feature.shtml)

G-CPTN
27th May 2008, 18:50
One expected him to be called Zebedee . . .

Blacksheep
27th May 2008, 19:22
More like Dylan. He'd obviously been smoking some interesting stuff. :hmm:

S'land
28th May 2008, 15:38
Quote fro said article:
it's all down to a transport ministry boffin, a two week crash course on design

Says it all really.

Windy Militant
9th Jun 2008, 10:26
An Appendix to the Mini roundabout saga
As mentioned the Mini roundabout to access the staff entrance on site has been changed for a T Junction.
This Morning I roll up abeam the junction, Traffic inbound in the opposing lane, so I stop indicating right. The woman in the car in the opposing lane slams on the brakes screams to a halt. Then furiously waves me across :confused:. Seeing more traffic approaching her tail, I decided that I'd chance crossing her bow so she'd start moving rather than argue the toss.
A month ago she'd have shot over the Mini roundabout like a bat out of hell. But now she has right of way she stops :confused: :confused:.
Does this say something about drivers in this country. :}