Guests/visitors on PPRune - what's the story?

[WE Branch Fanatic]

For the last few months I have been aware of the problems PPRuNe has been having with traffic and security, and I understand the need to take measures to deal with them. However, for the last month or so, I have noticed that some threads which normally get a steady flow of extra views were not. I tried looking at PPRuNe via a public computer in the library but was unable to do so without logging in, subsequently I learnt this was due to attacks by a Hackbot and the temporary measures taken in response.

Early last week this problem continued, looking as a guest achieved nothing except being prompted to log in, and I assumed this may have been due to having an AOL IP address which may be used by the hackbot. Then on Thursday the problem seemed to resolve itself, and the threads (on the military aircrew forum) were getting views again, presumably from outside of PPRuNe. Then on Sunday it returned to demanding log in and the flow of additional views dried up. Once again I assumed it might be due to AOL, and having a different IP address each time, however I had the same problem from the library this Tuesday. Yet on the forums I see that there are guests online, as well as registered users.

One of the great things about PPRuNe is being able to say things where they will be seen, hopefully not just be the regular readers. So I can't help wondering.....

1. If they are guests online, can they read threads?
2. Is it purely numbers that decide whether guests (ie first come first served until a limit is reached) can view PPRuNe, or are certain ISPs banned?
3. Can someone following a link to PPRuNe read posts?
4. Are these current restrictions temporary or permanent?

PPRuNe's an excellent site, particularly for those of us who don't really have other opportunities to make ourselves heard, and the Military Aircrew forum has been very useful in bringing a number of issues out into the public. I have been particularly encouraged by the idea of my writing being read by interested parties, some of whom may not be signed up PPRuNe users.

Sorry if I have asked any daft questions. As you might have guessed, I don't really understand things such as IP addressing or Hackbots.

[SpringHeeledJack]

WE Branch Fanatic

I was wondering the same myself, how in this new age of proon security is anyone able to be a guest on the boards without signing in like the rest of us :confused: When one looks to how many members are on the boards at a time, usually 1200 approx, there seems to be 700 approx 'guests' as well.....


Regards


SHJ

[WE Branch Fanatic]

I understand that these restrictions (which limit guests' access) are temporary, but does any have any idea of when they will be eased?

[Saab Dastard]

WE Branch Fanatic

1. If they are guests online, can they read threads?

Yes.

2. Is it purely numbers that decide whether guests (ie first come first served until a limit is reached) can view PPRuNe, or are certain ISPs banned?

It used to be the case that logged-in members had a priority for server time once a certain threshold of activity was reached, but since the site upgrade earlier this year, these limits have never been reached, as far as I know.

Apart from the AOL issue noted in the announcement, no other ISPs have ever been banned. Certain IP addresses or ranges of IP addresses may be blocked from time to time as necessary to prevent abuse of or attacks on the site.

3. Can someone following a link to PPRuNe read posts?

Yes, subject to above.

4. Are these current restrictions temporary or permanent?

Temporary, but don't hold your breath!

There has been some confusion about forced login, and an inability to view the forum as a guest.

This has been implemented as a simple security measure. It works like this - when you log in to PPRuNe, the IP address that you are connecting from is logged. When this IP address next connects, the PPRuNe server will only allow a valid login to view the forum, and a guest will not be permitted.

So if an IP address has never had a valid login made from it, then a guest connection can be made from that IP address - until a login is completed, at which point it will no longer be possible to login as a guest from that computer.

I hope this explains things.

SD

[WE Branch Fanatic]

SD

Thanks for a very informative reply.

For some reason, I tend to look to see how many views the Sea Jet thread on the military aircrew forum had received. When the steady increase stopped I wondered why.

In the last couple of weeks it had had quite a few additional views (after it had ceased being on the first page) from 186917 a couple of weeks ago to 187129 as of 1700 today (15th June). I suspect that this was largely due to guests - links on other PPRuNe threads tend not to result in masses of extra views.

On Friday it jumped from 187051 at 2200 to 187079 at 2300, by 1900 yesterday it was 187122, now it is 187129 (ok I admit I accidentally clicked it once). I know there is/was an interested party who was going to read the entire thread but I think that this increase in the number of views suggests that people have come from Google etc or followed links on other sites and had a look.

I apologise for my obsessive/compulsive traits.

[Conan The Barber]

There has been some confusion about forced login, and an inability to view the forum as a guest.
There is no confusion then. You can only be a guest or not. There is no other choice. Yet, the welcome screen still says you can view threads as a guest. It says nothing about your location being logged and stored and used to prevent you from viewing the site without logging in.

There is a bit of a disconnect between what is being presented and how the site actually works.

Are there any particular reason why this information needs to be asked for before being made public?

[Carrier]

Quote: "There is no confusion then. You can only be a guest or not..."

As I read Saab Dastard's explanation (thanks SD, by the way) I understand it to mean that you can only be a guest ONCE. If you return you will then have to log in, which means registering if you have not already done so. It means all regular users always have to take the time and trouble to log in even if they are in a hurry and just want to have a quick read of the latest gen on a particular issue. This seems to be rather user unfriendly!

I can understand and agree with the need to log in if somebody wants to make a post but I believe it should not be necessary to log in just to read, except for the previous requirement to give priority to members when traffic is high. Saab Dastard, any chance of returning to this?

[Saab Dastard]

You can continue to be a guest until a login has been made from a specific IP address, after which it will be necessary to login.

This is, as I say, in response to the abuse by a very small minority. Unfortunately, as in so many things in life, such behaviour by a few ends up making life inconvenient for the vast majority.

SD

[Keef]

I haven't logged in "manually" for a very long time. Both my PCs and the Laptop do it automatically. Why wouldn't you use that facility?

[Saab Dastard]

Keef, I imagine there might be a concern over a shared PC. Even then, unless using Windows 9x or a shared XP / 2K account, privacy should be assured.

SD

[Breecher]

I know that aircrew have become a minority here, but it should be understood that we are somewhat of a nomadic people. As a result, and as not all of us feel the urge to lug a laptop around, it is public computers in hotels, airports, crewrooms or cafes that are used.

Manual log in is the only option. There is also a good chance that someone have logged in from the location before, so the IP is logged and you can't even view threads without logging in.

[Saab Dastard]

WE Branch Fanatic,

I'm afraid I have had to remove your last post.

While you may have an interest in that particular topic, it isn't relevant to this forum - Military Forum or Aviation History might be a better home for it.

For information regarding how google indexes the internet and your pet topic in particular, I suggest you contact google directly, as they will be better placed to answer your query.

SD

[WE Branch Fanatic]

SD Fair enough.

I posted the link to show it was the genuine thread URL, and the archive one for comparison. The ARRSE link showed that there was a thread asking to see what happened if people followed a PPRuNe link - most of them were prompted to log in or register.

This is my theory....

I don't know how ISP's assign IP addresses, but I assume that dynamic addressing is used, so people may get different IPs assigned to them each time they access the internet. If that IP has already been used to log in, they will be blocked. If not, a link will take them to the thread.

Simple really, but it had me stumped for a few days. I'm not qualified in or work in IT.

It is unfortunate that misusers have made these (hopefully temporary) restrictions necessary, but such is life.

[Saab Dastard]

This is my theory....

I don't know how ISP's assign IP addresses, but I assume that dynamic addressing is used, so people may get different IPs assigned to them each time they access the internet. If that IP has already been used to log in, they will be blocked. If not, a link will take them to the thread.

Correct!

SD

[WE Branch Fanatic]

I did write another post on this topic on Friday evening (27/6) saying that it appeared that the above was confirmed by certain threads getting extra views when they were no threads on page one which contained links to them, therefore these additional views probably came from guests. Then sod's law struck, and the number of guests online on the forums dropped from 20 or so most of the time to merely one or two, and number of views ceased increasing.

It has been like that ever since, at least on the Military Aircrew, Computer Internet and Jetblast forums which are the only ones I look at. I seem to have managed to delete my message last night when I was trying to edit it.

Is this just random variation? Will it change again, or have PPRuNe users already used up all the possible IP addresses?

Edited on 1/7/08 to add that last night I briefly noticed that at one point there were 12 guests in the military aircrew forum, and this by this morning the thread mentioned above had some additional views. Therefore these were guests viewing?

[WE Branch Fanatic]

SD

A few moments ago, I clicked on "PPRuNe home". At the bottom of the page I saw:

Currently Active Users: 1268 (910 members and 358 guests)

There always seem to be several hundred guests online, but only ever one or two in the forums. Why is this? Why the difference between the number of visitors shown on the homepage and those that can be seen in forums? Until last Saturday morning (see above) guests could still look at threads (assuming their IP hadn't been previously used to log in) then it appears they stopped being able to do so. Is this something to do with the way the set up of the site (how different forums are addressed) has recently changed? Surely PPRuNers cannot have gone through all the possible IP addresses?

I cannot think that this is good for PPRuNe, which must benefit from guests - particularly those that decide to register (I know of one at least who followed a link I placed on a a forum relating specifically to the Harrier), and can name others who must have seen what was being talked about on the Military Aircrew forum and decided to register and contribute, having been long time lurkers. Likewise, visitors to PPRuNe must gain knowledge, and the civil and military aviation worlds probably benefit from being able to have their say.

If only we could go back to how things were just over a week ago...

I'm going mad.

WEBF