SIA....Please Give Us A Chance.

[MadChinaman]

To all those suffering local guys with flying licences, including me, have you all given up hope on being a commercial pilot?

Alas, its sad that SQ has deemed us not suitably qualified (reasons unknown) and neighbouring countries have their local restriction policies when hiring cadet pilots, where else or who else can we turn too, to help us in our plight?

I guess showing initiatives and enthusiasms by getting a licence on our own is now different then in the early days of commercial flying in Singapore. Does the employer value the graduate more than the guy with the licence? When the intial licence is the hardest to obtain and the rest are just ratings added on.

Guess, gone are the days when SQ would gladly save a dollar to take on guys with licences, put them on further training and make them productive at the least amount of time than taking ab-initios and spending a fortune and not knowing whether the candidate will pass?

And what happens to those that were selected to join the organisation and having cleared everything and when the time for command is upon them, going for command training and was told that they cannot make it?

At what stage of the interview for cadet pilots, does the employer assess the candidate is deemed not suitable to be a future commander, when he is not working in the organisation yet, nor is he expose to their working environment when the actual vetting of the candidate starts on the first day he reports for work till the time he is due for his command.

Sadly, in their in-house magazine 'OutLook' on their mission statement it reads, SIA operates as the national air carrier for the republic of Singapore and is majority owned by the government investment arm and having the government tell us that each and every Singaporean counts, shouldn't us local guys be given some leeway or maybe a 2nd consideration?? :confused:

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: MadChinaman ]

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: MadChinaman ]

[mktong]

MadChinaman
Yes this is unfair to us!
by the way,what licenses and experience do u posses?
cheers!

[MadChinaman]

mktong,

Just a low time guy with a CPL/IR and Frozen ATPL who is keen to join this industry as a commercial pilot and in return is willing to work hard, giving his loyalty and commitment to the organisation!

Just an opportunity for that first elusive flying job.

Cheers

[mktong]

Madchinaman.
we are the 1 of the many victims that suffer by the unfair policy.
they do not understand how desparate is an aspiring young pilot when they are JOBLESS!
#$%^&$^#%#%%$&^%##
and where did u get your license? Aus?US or UK? did u convert your license?

good luck...! ;)

[No Cigar]

Hi guys, I know exactly how you feel. I applied to SIA 2 years ago with a Aust CPL and was rejected then. After 2 years of trying, they finally let me in.

Guess you just have to decide what contingencies you have, do them first, then wait for the 'right' time to reapply (if you've been given the option).

No Cigar
P.S. if you want to know more about direct entry, let me know. I'll fill you in

[MadChinaman]

No Cigar,

After attending the tea party round, if you don't make it..there is no more 2nd chance.

As for alternatives, there isn't any.

It is understandable and right that airlines want the best aircrew candidates and that airline will train these people to fit their own operational mold.

But I am intrigued that the rest of us "admirable" and "dedicated" self-sponsored candidates who are trying to scrape through their system don't really cut the mustard. Surely it shows commitment if I put in the time, effort and money into the training to be a commercial pilot.

Is this ambition, self-motivation and financial sacrifices not enough? Is my own training and qualifications different to that of a sponsored cadet pilot??

Alas, SQ will probably continue to regard those (self-gained Commercial Licence or ATPL) as to "far gone" to be indoctrinated into their own training purposes. Lots of shareholders' money will be spent training new aircrew from scratch, only so that these new pilots fall into the "SQ" profile.

With the ideals, SQ should be in the cutting edge of commercial aviation but yet it still coming to terms with those past recruitment and training policies.

And us self-sponsored people will continue to be brushed aside.

We can only live and hope that all the predictions of future pilot shortages might make a difference to those of us that are "more forward in coming forward".

Cheers

[joblessflyer]

well said! madchinaman,

reminds me of many guys who are in the same situation as you. :(


the only solution is to form a union, gather all these 'downed pilots', convey a united petition to Mr Goh Chock Tong, the press, gov stat boards, patrotic organisations, the public etc.

count me in if you need a vote.

enough is enough! :mad:

good luck.

[ 14 July 2001: Message edited by: joblessflyer ]

[MadChinaman]

Jobless Flyer,

I would love to but, the majority of local guys with licences have not come forward to be counted due to you know what? No point approaching your MPs,they just pay lip service to you and also they are in SQ vetting the local guys.(ie.eg. Snr Vice President Human Resource Loh Meng See) So why bother?

Besides, do you think the government is going to listen to our plight when they are happily making money.

Guess not.

[a330]

my friends out there ,

" it's not what you have , it's who wants to give"

" it's not what you know , it's WHO you know "

i hope that you know what i'm trying to say here , i would like to wish you guys best of luck out there .

why only SQ ??? go look for other opportunities out there ... just gotto work hard .

regards ,
a330 ;)

[mktong]

No Cigar.

Yes...i would love to know more about the direct entry.
mind to tell me your email add?

Madchinaman:good luck to u :)

[Hermie]

This post is the same as the post in Becoming a SIA Pilot. Just to inform you fellas.

mktong - Hey, how have you been dude ? Did you received my last email ?
---------------------------------------------
Hi,
I just got back from the dreaded Tekong, boy did I miss alot of juicy stuff !

Regarding licence conversion. I emailed the Flight Ops Section and this was the latest reply from them, 3mths ago. I hope it still stands, besides if you need further clarification do call them up.



Regarding your query, we will convert all valid ATPL from any ICAO contracting
states to a Singapore equivalent, provided the applicant fulfill the following
requirements :-

(a)Pass a Singapore Class 1 medical with a CAAS Designated Medical Examiner
(b)Pass the Singapore Aviation Law paper
(c)Pass the Human Performance & Limitations paper
(d)Pass a flight test with a CAAS Flight Examiner

There are more requirements to it, you'll have to call them up. This is just the basic !!

Applicants will be required to come in person to CAAS Flight Operations Section,
during normal office hours, with his original licences, medical certificate and
all flying logbooks (certified by the relevant authorities) for verification
purposes. All the above requirements must be completed (*) months prior to the
issue of the Singapore ATPL. All flying clubs which follows ICAO flying
requirements are acceptable for the conversion. CAAS have yet to approve any
flying schools which is 'recognised' for ATPL conversion. For further
information you may wish to contact Ms -- at tel : (65) 5412482 or fax (65)
5456519 or in person at :-

CAAS Flight Operations Section
#046-025 Changi Airport Terminal Two
Singapore 918141


Yours Sincerely

---------------
for DIRECTOR GENERAL of CIVIL AVIATION


Best Regards,
Herman ;)

P.S
Do correct me
if I'm wrong.

[Frying Dutchman]

Hi all...

How do you guys with foreign licences manage to keep your flying current? Anyone manage to convert their CPL to a Singaporean CPL and to what cost?

'Shut your mouth. Know your role.'

[UnLuckPiloT]

What you guys said is all true,and I reckon SQ only takes HANDSOME pilot,because it has been clear that everytime if you send your resume they required you to send in your photo as well.So I think SQ only takes handsome guys rather than a safety commercial pilot.....you guys think so???

[TTFN]

I too was a self sponsored pilot and have been looking to SQ for a job since 89. Those of you who made it well done. SQ have never been so kind to me. In all these years they have never even invited me down for an interview, or even acknowledged my applications. However, all is not lost, at first if you don't get in, try and try again, and try other companies. It took awhile, and I'm enjoying what I like to do, ie, flying, with far better rewards than what I would acheive at SQ. The world is very small, there are jobs out there.

[Djoni Boerhanoeddin]

Hi boys I am appliying to SQ since 1986 and until now still rejected althought I rated on B744, it is only once, they (SQ) don`t like to have too many ,brownies from nightbouring countries, and yellowies seen by the pax. as driver that`s why they love to have drivers with Aussie or Brits license make the airlines more like western in the far east

[Sunny]

Unluckpilot, good to hear that you think SIA employs only handsome pilots. But never have I ever heard such Bullsh!t. Applications based on how you look. :D Next you'll be telling us that get selected based on Bust Size :eek: Hmmm maybe not such a bad idea :rolleyes:

[crl]

Unluckpilot...
So I think SQ only takes handsome guys rather than a safety commercial pilot.....you guys think so???
I really hope you were just JOKING???

Broer...
I'm afraid you are totally wrong. I can assure you that "looking WEST" is not one of SQ company policies. If you are suitably qualified; they will take you in. We have quite a few chaps(on the left seat of course) from your country too, as for co-pilots they are slightly "fat" presently on the 744 and they really don't prefer direct entry most of the time; regardless of "colour" of your skin.
CRL :cool:

[MadChinaman]

To The Guys,

Thanks for making such a great contributions.

There is still a long way to go to fight the cause and hopefully with this new change in Flt. Ops. Management, some goodness will come out of it for us local guys. Thanks again!!

[Old Dog]

MadChinaman,

The cost of re-training and type-conversion for pilots is far more than the cost of initial training. One hour in the flight simulator cost the company in the region of USD $400, plus instructor's pay. A typical conversion from B737/A330 to B747-400 requires 60 hours of simulators. What about ground school, and line-training later?

By comparison, the cost of sending a cadet to the pilot school for ab-initio training is very small indeed (less than USD 40K).

Even experienced and type-qualified pilots from other airlines have difficulties getting jobs in SQ and MAS, so where do you stand ? I am not from the management, but I post this just for your consideration. I sympathize with your predicament. I wish you lots of luck.

[ 07 August 2001: Message edited by: Old Dog ]

[MadChinaman]

Dear Old Dog,

Yes its true that the cost of re-training and conversion is more. But such cost is peanuts to SQ. Afterall, their simulators have to be in operational anyway. Irrespective of the training pilots, the pay is also based on the number of trainees on their roster. Besides, it saves the company heaps in terms of productive life out of me rather than wasting 17 months or less in a flying school. Assuming I get checked out within 1 year or less. By the way, SQ uses some portion of the Skills Development Fund initiated by the government for upgrading and training purposes which is why the Flt. Ops Dept. has always returned a profit.

I don't know about Malaysian Airlines policies but I do admire your country's DCA fierce protection of its pilots. I remembered
awhile back, there was an issue in your parliment with regards to taking of foreign pilots over locals (with/without type ratings). But recently MAS took about 25 Indonesian without type-ratings on-board. Guess you guys must be pissed!!!

But over here, our CAAS doesn't work the way it suppose to work rather, whatever SIA says...they agree.

Thanks Old Dog for the advise, btw if there is any openings in Malaysia..do let me know.

Cheers.

[Lee]

Madchinaman,

Don't be disheartened. Read today's (9 August) issue of The Straits Times headlines. "Your worries are mine too, says PM" So your worries are with the PM, but do you believe that?

Unluckpilot

Well, I totally agree with you that SQ only employs handsome pilots. From the many feedback I get from Singapore Girls and stewardess from other airlines (sex always makes their mouth sweet), I really have to agree with you 100%.

[Lee]

Broer,

Personally, I think if SQ does not take you in, it's SQ's loss not yours. I know you are a good pilot and not for your country's economic crisis, you should be on the left seat by now.

I've flown with less competent foreign Capts and F/Os in SQ and sometimes I wonder did they get the job by the colour of their skin or their flying skills.

For all those people, who don't know Broer, Boer has earned his CAAS CPL/IR from SINGAS, which at that time was the flight training school for SIA. He now holds an ATPL and is 747-400 rated. BTW, we were coursemates too.

And those out there who look down on Indonesian pilots, I can vouch that Broer is a competent pilot and very professional in every aspect.

Once again, it's SQ's loss not to take you in, not yours. Take care and I know one day you soon be flying on the LHS. From our school days, I know that you'll excel in your career. Well done and keep the Indonesian flag flying high. Cheers

[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: Lee ]

[zxamx]

Dear Old Dog,

I don't know whether you are joking or serious in your last post. How could you say that to train an ab initio is cheaper than a full fledged licenced pilot? You mean the young chicko that just graduated from flying school are soooooooooooo smart until no type conversion, sim and line training required?

I don't know whether you were talking facts or dreaming..... :confused:

[newbalance763]

hi everybody, just out of interests where did you guys get your licences from?? Malaysia, England, USA etc? kindda interested in aviation myself.

[Lee]

newbalance763,

You've come to the wrong place. If you just wanna find out about licences and about aviation, you should go to the WANNABES forum.

Over here, we're talking serious, we are all professional pilots. BTW, my licence is from CAAS. Cheers.

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Lee ]

[WLT]

Lee,

How's it going? Been awhile since I last login. Anyway, good to see that you are still a regular ppruner in the far east forum. No chance we can meet with me in the right seat. If I remember correctly, you are a 744 driver, right? Been so overworked lately it is not funny.

Gnote,

Where have you been? Hopefully no more run-ins with you again.

old dog,

Care to clarify a little about the cost of training thingey which you posted. I guess I am as confused as everyobe else. I will treat it as a mistake on your part.

WLT

[WLT]

newbalance763,

i will assume you are from Singapore and would want to join SQ.....

for recreation, the US of A is fine.

Singapore is fine too but more costly.

forget about Malaysia completely.

to even have a slim chance of working for SQ, go to the UK.

if your father is a management captain at SQ, you could try Australia.

to save money, go to the US or Canada first and then cross over to the UK for conversion.

watch out for lose nuts and bolts under your Cessna before flying no matter what your instructor says and I mean really look out for it especially in those cheaper, discounted schools.

anymore info.....visit the wannabe forum. let us know when you have completed your first loop or barrel.

seriously speaking, are you sure you want to be a professional pilot? it is no fun unless you have passion for it.

good luck.

wlt

[Lee]

WLT,

Nice to read your interesting posting. I agree with your advice to newbalance 763, that unless his father is an SQ management Capt, then he should go to Australia.

This really brings the point to all those who are trying to get into SQ with currrent licences. If you possess an Australian CPL/IR you're welcome to apply to SQ, if you're an Aussie with an Aussie licence, bingo! you're in. That's the mentality of the SQ Management Capts today!

Oh, what a pity, I can't fly with you. You're on the Airbus right? Anyway, we're in SQ and as the advert says "It's a great way to fly", (but it never said it's great to fly in SQ!). I agree, with you WLT, one must really have the passion. I really do have that passion. Cheers.

[Lee]

Broer,

You've got what it takes, an Indonesian ATPL and a DCA of S'pore CPL/IR. I remembered you passed your written exam on the first attempt. That's fantastic. Some of our Singapore coursemates had to retake that exam. So don't be disheartened. I know you'll do well in your career. It's just a matter of time, before you're in the LHS.

The SQ Management Capts need to "walk the walk and talk the talk", until then, can they see competency beyond the colour of one's skin and nationality!

[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: Lee ]

[newbalance763]

hi guys, thanks for the kind reply, have spoken to a few Boeing and Airbus drivers myself and they brought to my attention that NZ CPL/IR with Frozen ATPL might stand to be on par with oz with regards to application to SQ. What's your outlook on this?

[0.88M]

interested in Joining, just sack the "botak".
Now that will certainly increase job hire.
Or so i heard..
Is it taht hard get rid of the "botak'?