View Full Version : Airline Pricing!! How do they justify this one?

22nd May 2008, 15:12
Okay! Just been looking for some flights From London to Toronto, return. Then a flight from Toronto to New York return.

LGW - YYZ = £238 inc Tax return total flight time 15h:35m return costing £15.50/Hour

YYZ - JFK = £318 Inc Tax return. total flight time 03h:40m return costing £93.52/Hour

How does that work?

surely if airlines are being competitive and reasonable then the flight to New York should be costing me about £52.70 return.

I can't figure it out, or understand it. Any Ideas!? :ugh:

22nd May 2008, 17:05
try www.flyporter.ca (http://www.flyporter.ca) for flights from city airport to newark . Can be quite cheap if booked in advance

22nd May 2008, 18:40
So how about EDI-AMS-OSL at nearly £700?:confused::confused:

I've had a trip to go to Oslo next week for work. I know it's a bit short notice & it's not over a weekend etc., but 6 hrs 45 scheduled time, and probably only about 4 in the air, doesn't exactly work out to what you might call anything like a reasonable rate - even at $135 a barrel.:eek::eek:

I'd far rather spend just under £500 to travel (at shorter notice) out & back a day earlier direct on Norwegian, but I didn't arrange things.....:sad::sad:

Did EDI-ATL-IAH Monday-Thursday last year on fairly short notice for only £420.....

Ho Hum.

Desert Diner
22nd May 2008, 18:49
LGW - YYZ = £238 inc Tax return total flight time 15h:35m return costing £15.50/Hour

YYZ - JFK = £318 Inc Tax return. total flight time 03h:40m return costing £93.52/Hour

on the LGW-YYZ leg the airline hopes to make the bulk of its revenue and profit on the F/C pax who they (or their companies) are willing to pay extra for that extra bit of comfort. Try look up a a full business class fare and redo your maths. The fare you see is probably for a few seats anyway.

On the YYZ-JFK, most people will fly in the back, so the airline will need to recovery their cost from these unfortunate souls.

Just got to love Airline Economics:rolleyes:

22nd May 2008, 19:06
Distance from Toronto to New York City is about 350 miles. Are you doing that in a Ford Tri-Motor? 3hr 40m???

Usual trip time non-stop London - Toronto is 6-7 hours . 15h 40m???

22nd May 2008, 19:11
Distance from Toronto to New York City is about 350 miles. Are you doing that in a Ford Tri-Motor? 3hr 40m???

Usual trip time non-stop London - Toronto is 6-7 hours . 15h 40m???

All times quoted are return flight times and worked out as a £ / hourly basis!

However a Ford Tri Motor would be good fun!!

Desert Diner
22nd May 2008, 19:39
Business fare will be around £3,000 which translates to about £194/hr:eek:

22nd May 2008, 20:57
I have never really broken airfares down to a / hour basis, but when you look at them in this new way, you realise how much we get fleeced on short haul travel in comparison to long haul flights!

Anyways! I booked it, and I think I might take the bus to NYC, or Hire a car! any cheap ideas??

23rd May 2008, 05:20
Toronto-NYC? Take the train, excellent scenery on the way incl a stop at Niagara Falls if you want to break it up

23rd May 2008, 06:09
It may be more fair to evaluate cost on gate-to-gate time, not flight time. This way the fixed costs associated with boarding, takeoff and fuel used during the climb as well as landing and deplaning are included. They may form a large portion of the airline's costs on a short flight. They'll be a much small factor on long-haul flights.

Years ago I used to figure about $1 per minute of schedule time (not flight time) on major routes.

23rd May 2008, 08:45
The short answer to the question is 'because that is what the market will bear'.

It is ultimately down to supply and demand, with an overlay of the airlines' costs and profit targets.

eastern wiseguy
23rd May 2008, 08:51
Mrs EW is from Cleveland OH and we often try to find cheap ways to there from here. I have to say that the fare ex YYZ across the lake to CLE is usually almost the same as the fare BFS YYZ!. As an aside I tried to find her a cheap fare this June and was quoted 604 pounds on the Continental website. When it suggested I look for nearby airfields with a cheaper fare I thought "good idea" and let it search those. The result was BFS DTW for 512 pounds...guess what ....same flights ex BFS and change at CLEVELAND!.You couldn't make it up!!:ugh:

Sir Lee B“stard
24th May 2008, 12:39
Recently I had a very similar experience. Planned to go to Cairo via Madrid - Iberia return fare for two - 820 pounds booked well in advance. Added in a sector Valencia -Madrid (rtn) total price drops to 700 pounds. If they marketed soap the way they flog rail and air tickets the world would stink more than it does already!

27th May 2008, 11:41
Porter Airlines seems a good deal, I like the idea of flying on a turbo prop from downtown! $200 return! sounds good to me! They look like a superb airline too! looking forward to it!!

28th May 2008, 00:24
Porter are ace. My condo overlooks the airport . I could spend all day watching them. Haven't had chance to fly with them yet but would love to know what that scarey looking left turn straight after take off actually feels like!

28th May 2008, 14:40
All times quoted are return flight times and worked out as a £ / hourly basis!

Looks like you've forgotten to allow for the time difference....

29th May 2008, 08:17
You of course never heard of supply and demand having some influence in pricing, did you?

15th Jun 2008, 08:00
A few years ago I travelled frequently between London (England, not Ontario!) and Montreal. On one occasion the best deal in economy was on US Airways with the return sector Dorval-Pittsburgh-Charlotte-Gatwick. I recall another good deal, with United I think, which had the outbound route Heathrow-San Francisco-Dorval. Airline economics: plane crazy!

15th Jun 2008, 09:07
I fail to see what those numbers show you.
If you take the same amount of cost for two flights, one lasting 1 hour and the other lasting 5 hours, of course your cost per hour will come down.
My guess is that even if you factor in more fuel for the longer flight and higher maintenance costs for the shorter flight (owing to more take offs and landings) the numbers for the shorter flight would be higher.
Also I've never read or heard anywhere that prices are calculated thus. As far as I know, Airlines try to make sure that their NETWORK is profitable, not each and every route (even though I'm sure they'd love it to be so).
A few weeks back I found a passenger receipt lying in the aisle. Routing was SFO-FRA-AMS-ARN. Price was USD 127,-! When I gave it back to the passenger, I asked whether that really was the price he paid, he smiled and said "good eh?". And we“re not talking low cost airline here. I'm sure we also had passengers on the same flight that paid considerably more for the same leg.
Usually the price range on a flight to, say L.A. varies from a few hundred Euros to more than 2000,-, depending on how far in advance you've made your booking, and how flexible that booking has to be.
So, even if you do your calculations for passengers on one flight in one class, you'll get wildly varying numbers. And again I fail to see what exactly that would show you.
And lastly, (and I'm sticking my head out now) Airlines don't exist just because they love to fly you around the world at minimum cost, they want your money. Probably all of it if they could get it. :) It's up to you, to deceide whether you're going to give it to them (and me, as I'll be serving your meal).

15th Jun 2008, 10:07
Seat62K... with the return sector Dorval-Pittsburgh-Charlotte-Gatwick.My guess is that was in the time when Hub-and-Spoke was the Big Idea? The majors were offering good prices if you were prepared to multi-hop, so that they filled up empty seats and made the load factors look good.

Another example, UK to South Africa, was usually MUCH cheaper on an indirect LHR~AMS/CDG/FRA/MUC/MAD/~JNB but not now.

From recent investigations of getting UK to Canada (and UK to other places) I can see that the indirect routings are much the same price and, often more expensive. The Hubs-and-Spokes have been greatly reduced and the indirects with a single change have risen in price to the point where they are a bit cheaper than the direct but not a whole lot cheaper.

Usual caveat, what each pax considers 'cheap' or 'cheaper' is their own and there are going to be many examples of cheap routing too. Overall ... it is a different world and the next two years will make it the more so.

15th Jun 2008, 13:20
Yes, this was at least seven years ago and off-peak, too (e.g. February).