View Full Version : Will SIA accept RSAF Drop out ?
boeinglover
1st Feb 2001, 11:08
Hi Guys, this question was shot at me by one of my good friend who was pilot trainee with the RSAF and sadly got chopped out of the Advance Flying Training in Australia. He has expressed interest to join SIA in the later stage but wonder if they would be biased in his case if he should apply as a cadet pilot?
Advices please?
QNH1013
2nd Feb 2001, 07:23
Well, I do know of someone who got chopped at the stage of RSAF training just before going to Austrlaia, but after managed to get accepted on SIA's cadet scheme and is now flying on line. Hope this info can help. Even if not, your friend won't know till they at least try.
well it's hard to say. i've got 3 friends ,ex-rsaf cadets, 2 from fts seletar and one from aft aust. the one from aust went for his first interview twice and failed both times. he's in business now. same for one ex-fts. the other ex-fts made it all the way to the medical checkup on his first try, which unfortunately, he failed.
can't really say what they're looking for. the guys feel the crucial bit is to get around the 'why did you fail with the rsaf and why do you think you'd succeed with sia' issue.
all the best for you friend.
boeinglover
3rd Feb 2001, 08:50
QNH1013: Thanks for your feedback,very much appreciated. Best saying "Never say die when you never have tried" so the best solution for my friend is to pick up his courage and try applying in for their cadet scheme.
Dez: Your friend who got chopped in Australia tried the interview twice????
I was told that SIA would only permit one time application and would definitely reject those who had applied, got rejected and try applying again. In short, there is no second chance!!!!
Hi BL, tell your pal to apply.There are many of us who didn't make it in the Airforce. But have found a home in SQ. Off the top of my head, I can think of 3 guys who got chopped at various stages of training in RSAF and made it in.
Sure you can apply. Just gotta think about how you answer De Vas or McCully when they ask you why they should accept you when you have failed in the RSAF. Be humble and be ready to eat the humble pie for the next 2.75 years before you go ops. Telling you from my experience. That is all and all the best. The way I see it, it is all destiny if you can/cannot make it. Of course you need the pre-requisites. Think about it seriously. It is a hassle and the pay is very low comparatively. A good private sector job will pay more. I am doing it because of the bond and I really enjoy it. If it is for the money, please forget it now. Good luck to you and your friend.
Gladiator
6th Feb 2001, 08:07
By the time your friend makes it to the interview he will not be answering to DeVaz and McCully.
He will be answering to a Republic of Singapore Air Force General. DeVaz and McCully's days are numbered.
boeinglover
6th Feb 2001, 15:11
Hi Sunny, thanks for the feedback. Very much appreciated. I will pass the message to my pal. Any idea when is the next intake recruitment for cadet pilot scheme so that I can get him to take note of the dates?
Hope to hear from you again!
Regards,
Not too sure about when the next intake would be. Tell your pal to check with SQ. They would bw able to tell him approximately when the adverts for cadet pilots will be coming out. Cheers.
Sunny,
So sorry to hear that you were chopped off from the RSAF.
BTW, I was Commissioned. Keep them "Hello Sirs coming".
Lee,
Finishing the airgrading course and not being selected for advanced training was the best thing that could have happened. When you turn 45 and have had many years riding the mahogany bomber, you'll figure out why. Talk to those who have moved. A few of the instructors at FTS I knew are now F/O's in SQ. Open your eyes. Any of your pals studying for ATPLs? By the way, you too can apply at the interviews.
Sunny,
You sound like a bunch of sour grapes because you couldn't qualify as a fighter pilot or even as a C130 pilot or even a heli-pilot, and yet you say that it's the best thing that ever happened. Sour grapes, Sunny!
I think you're right, that it's the best thing that ever happened - for the sake of the RSAF!
Keep them "Hello Sirs coming, Sunny!"
it's funny how harmless topics can turn into hostile ones on this site.
anyway boeinglover, you can apply as many times at the first interview, evidently. think it's the final one that's the point of no return.
the adds come out every 3 months or so if i'm not wrong. but as mentioned, you could check with recruitment on this. but mind you, if you catch them on a bad day they could be quite anal about it. happens everywhere i guess.
best of luck to your friend again.
boeinglover
12th Feb 2001, 12:34
Dez and Sunny, thanks to both of you for the positive review again and guess what? My friend took up your advice, called SIA up and is on his way for the next interview. I hope he can make it this time and enjoy the much soughted flying career with SQ.
Cheers.
boeinglover
12th Feb 2001, 12:44
Hi Lee, some of my polymates who are in there as C130 or Puma pilots aren't too happy either so I guess it's up to individual preferences either to make it and fly military style or commercially.
Anyway, according to them, "To hell with the male ego" There's no shame not to make it through RSAF as long as one succeed in life with outside organisations.
Life is short, make full use of it and enjoy doing what one likes rather than to be cocky and ignorant of many other things in life!!!
Cheers.
Sunny
12th Feb 2001, 12:56
Hey, BL.
Good to hear that your friend is on his way. It's a long process so tell him to hang in there.
Cheers.
boeinglover
12th Feb 2001, 18:51
Hello Sunny, any clue to where my pal will be doing his medical screening?
Happy flying.
boeinglover,
when I went for it, it was held at Medora's Clinic along paya lebar road (near tai seng). if your friend smokes ask him to stop for the time being and drink lots and lots of water. also, ask him to go play some games at the the arcade for the 2nd round computer grading. good luck. are you a pilot? I have been an FO with SQ for about 2 years and fly the 777.
cheers
WLT
also, before I go for my reservist, a few pointers for you/your friend to work out:
1. Go for it once you finish your degree (before 26 is fine but must be over 25 years of age).
2. Read about turbine engines (what is the difference between a two-stroke/four-stroke engine).
3. Know the 4 fleets and their differences (does the A340 or the 777 have winglets, does the 744 have winglets, how many wheels does the 744 have, what is fly-by-wire, length of aircrafts .... )Might wanna find out more about the A380 flying container or the new Boeing flying stingray (even larger)
4. Take an active interest in all available aircraft journals up to the final day of interview
5. BE HUMBLE. BE SO VERY HUMBLE. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH IT WILL SAY THE SAME.
6. Come up with a game plan and stick to it to the end. Leave the rest to destiny. As for the nitty-gritty stuff, ask your pilot contacts/friends which I am sure you have since you are a frequent visitor to PPrune.
Strikie
13th Feb 2001, 05:48
oooh, 2-stroke turbines...heh!heh!
bl, WLT is quite right. Also read up about the Co. (staff strength, subsidiaries, etc). Questions asked at the first interview need not be of a technical nature. Bear in mind that the stage at which you were dropped from the RSAF has no weightage towards your eligibility. When you get to the final interview/tea party, be humble, be extremely tactful and don't be over-the-top with canned answers. Qualities like honesty, bearing and integrity, blah, blah, blah...are what they are looking out for. GOOD LUCK.
Sunny
13th Feb 2001, 06:34
Another thing is that they may ask is if he didn't make it in the airforce, why he thinks he may make it in SQ.
Sunny,
How would you have answered the question, "If you couldn't make it in the airforce, why do you think you can make it in SIA?" Thanks for sharing.
boeinglover
13th Feb 2001, 11:49
Sunny: Thanks for the possible question. Time for my friend to think about that question and how to reply if asked.
Strikie: Good leads here!! Have to get my friend to read up most aviation publications or SIA "Outlook" magazines to know more about the company.
WLT: Tremendous thanks for your tips. Comes in very handy indeed. You are in the 777 fleet!! Well done! Are you flying the 772 or 773 currently? I know of one SQ Command training pilot through email by the name Mike. He should be a Captain on the fleet by now!!! Any idea of him?
I was a student pilot during my Poly days and still a current SPL holder.
Cheers and happy flying.
Sunny
13th Feb 2001, 15:33
BL,
Glad to help.
Lee,
If I had to answer that, I would have to say that the type of flying required in RSAF and SQ are different with emphasis being placed in different areas. In 30 hours the RSAF teaches you to fly the plane and do aerobatics. The same 30 hours in SQ were spent flying and doing PFL's.
The aerobatics were fun, but that's a different story.
Cheers, and have a happy Valentine's Day.
Sunny,
Thank you for sharing your answer with us. I think it's quite a good answer. Best wishes and Happy Valentine's Day.
One of my coursemates was posed with that question and he answered saying that although he did not make in the RSAF, he will try his very best to make it in SQ.
Essentially, he did not give any excuses for his failure in the RSAF and at the same time highlighted the fact that he will try his best this time round if given the opportunity. It worked for him and now the lucky guy is a 744 FO.
boeinglover
14th Feb 2001, 15:32
Sunny: Excellent answer !!! Very well prepared and sounded very logical. By the way, what do those cadets without any flying experience learn in Seletar and till what stage are they ready to further their training in Jandakot?
WLT: Your coursemate is indeed a very lucky and fortunate chap to be selected despite his past failure and eventually flying the B744 today. Way to go!!!!
Happy Valentine's Day to all.
BL,
Not making the cut in the RSAF has no relation with the SQ selection. Tell you what, when you/your friend have been called up for the 1st interview, post more specific questions and I think we will all try to give more specific answers. Good luck and if you are really a student, study hard and do well. Later.
WLT
Sunny
15th Feb 2001, 12:37
BL,
The syllabus has changed since I did my training at Seletar, but I think that they do their ground school subjects and only get to their first solo there.
boeinglover
15th Feb 2001, 20:16
WLT: Thanks for the encouragement!! I will for sure. Also it a big relief to my friend when he heard that SIA's interview and selection is fair and demostrated no biasness towards RSAF Dropout.
Sunny: Great info! So the Singapore flying college operates more or less like most overseas flying schools. By the way, do you happen to have colleagues who graduated from the pretigious Oxford Air Training School in UK and currently flying for SQ. Have heard that school is very famous for excellent pilot training.
Regards,
Gnote
16th Feb 2001, 02:25
Whoaaa!! hold on folks. I really wouldn't pay much attention to WLT's posts. First he is not a 777 FO for SIA like he says. He had a post a month ago in the Canada region of this site asking about getting an ATPL...well since you fly 777's don't you already have your ATPL or Frozen ATPL at least? Next he makes references to two or four stroke turbines??? Any half wit flying turbines would know whats wrong with this picture. Well WLT if you are a 777 pilot, could you please tell us what Vref is for the 777 and what system/engine powers the ess.bus bar..
Do us a favour, grow up and stop lying.
[This message has been edited by Gnote (edited 15 February 2001).]
GNOTE,
Yes, I did post a question in the Canada Forum. However, do you really think that I am posting a question for myself? The person is now doing his ATPL in Jerez, Spain. Just wanna say that there are many people out there that want to be pilots but are not as lucky as you Captain GNOTE. Anyway, not only am I a 777 FO with SQ, I was also an ex-RSAF pilot. Sad to say I did not fly the F-16 which is the best the RSAF could offer.
Have you been through an SQ final interview? If not, keep your comments to yourself? I was asked to explain the difference between a two-stroke and four-stroke engine by Lenny in the final interview. At the tea-party, he asked even more technical questions which I cannot answer. I got recruited anyway. It is almost by default but anyway, thank god.
The comments/replies to BL's questions are really up to him to decide and think through.
Who are you to say that they are baseless. Coming from a person that is probably not familiar with the SQ culture, I think you are quite a joke.
OK gotta go as I am doing my reservist at the moment at Changi, Singapore (now do you know which aircraft I fly? give you a clue, it is a transport aircraft and not the C-130) I do very regular landings/takeoffs using either end of the runway at Changi Airport.
In typical Singapore fashion. Aiyah!
Gnote
16th Feb 2001, 06:09
Quoting your other post "I was thinking of GETTING MY ATPL in Jerez, Spain...".. there we have it you're lying again. If Lenny was asking you questions in your interview., then why didn;t you know who he was in an earlier Jan 31/01 post???...very interesting. Anyways mr. hotshot 777 pilot, why can't you answer my questions.. what is vref for the 777? and which system powers the Ess. bus bars...it think it is because you're not flying a boeing....convince me that you are a 777 SQ pilot.
[This message has been edited by Gnote (edited 16 February 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Gnote (edited 16 February 2001).]
Sunny
16th Feb 2001, 06:13
BL,
I know of a few who went to Oxford, one who went to NZ. But most of the guys did their training at Seletar and Jandakot. But I guess selection depends more on the person than qualifications.
boeinglover
16th Feb 2001, 07:34
Sunny: Wonderful reply!!! Thanks. I also believe there are also many well qualified self-sponsored flyboys out there, all waiting for the chance or have tried to get selected by SQ but unfortunately unsuccessful. It's the worst scenario that could ever happen to a self-sponsored graduate of a pilot training course.
Good Day.
BL: Think Oxford is the best available. Just got news from the flying college that a recent cadet who graduated from Oxford failed his Learjet training. Was given 3 tries. Think anyone who is planning to follow the self-sponsored route need to do more hours in MCC. It is vital. My friend wanted to attend Oxford but the money was crazy. He is now at BAE Jerez, Spain which is very steep too. Forget this route unless your parents or you have cash to throw. You applying soon?
Sunny: What fleet are you in?
GNOTE: You are right! I am no pilot. I am a just a bus driver. Do you believe me now? Hah! Anyway, I think my comments for the SQ interview is both correct/helpful and anyone who has been through it will agree. You go figure. Anyway, I have 3 more weeks to have fun with you on PPruNe before my national duties end and I go back to work. On a more serious note, I really admire your effort in maintaining this site. Cheers.
0.88M
16th Feb 2001, 18:54
SQ will except anyone now that they are so short of pilots.Just remember to bring a parachute just incase. SQ does not provide much to pilots.
turbosheep
16th Feb 2001, 20:32
0.88M,
Let's face it, SIA is not the worst employer in the world of avation.
But if it seriously wants to be the "best airline in the world", much is needed to be done.
The entry requirement in terms of flying experience is extremely low as compared to other majors (none, in the case of cadet pilot). The idea is to recruit in such a way as to get people who will fit into the current culture (after all, you are not serious in expecting 14,000+ employed people in SQ to change to adopt to a cadet pilot/newly recruited captain ?), people with the "correct" mindset, thinking and attitude.
But it has to realise that its current standing amongst in the league of the "big boys" came about thanks to the many years of loyal hardwork of its current and past workforce. The treatment (financial, rostering, etc.) that these workforce are currently receiving does not really addresses the sacrifices and efforts that we have put in.
The day the spat between management and pilots come to the situation a la CX will be known as "the turning point" in future casestudy at MBA courses. And that "day" is getting pretty darn close.
Gnote
16th Feb 2001, 20:47
Can't answer my questions eh WLT...Why not? ... Well the truth finally comes out. Get off your little dream cloud AND STOP YOUR LYING !!!
[This message has been edited by Gnote (edited 16 February 2001).]
Sunny
16th Feb 2001, 21:04
Well WLT, I'm a bus driver. And loving every minute of it.
GNOTE: Thanks for the reminder!
Sunny: Glad to know that we are both drivers.
You know how its like. Comparatively lower pay and longer working hours but I like it a lot. PPruNe does provide some fun. Started looking at this site more about 6 months ago. Enjoy.
WLT,
I think you missed the point. Sunny actually told you what fleet he is flying.
If you really are a pilot, you'll understand the pilot's lingo.
Lee,
C'mon it there are two types of 4 hairdryer lorries that we fly. It can be either one. Anyway, let me have some fun during my reservist ok. I mean no harm unlike some of the disgruntled and critical users of PPruNe.
Anyway, there are too many virtual pilots in PPruNe and no one can tell. Therefore, the name – Rumor Network. Important thing is we all get to enjoy ourselves here and maybe get to help some younger guys in the process.
WLT
Gnote
19th Feb 2001, 09:32
Hey WLT, this is the RUMOR network; not the LYING network. We pilots are on this message board to post/request/gather information to help us make decisions. Aviation is a community that is shared by all pilots regardless of hours in the logbook or types flown..and yes we often like to help each other out....it is called courtesy..but you wouldn't know anything about that would you..
GNote,
Whatever you say means nothing to me Mr Virtual Captain! Why don't you just calm down and go enjoy your retirement fund! Later buddy!
WLT
Gen-X
19th Feb 2001, 13:17
Out of interest, what is the difference between Rumours and Lies? Please Explain!
Gen-X and all interested parties,
lie: saying something that is untrue
rumor: a piece of info that may be true or untrue which people are talking about
I think they are the same! In the case of PPruNe, I think it is impossible to verify. Just have to filter what is useful and throw away the crap.
Think I have been carried away in my recent run-ins with GNote but please do not take notice because it is just a RUMOR!
However, If I see someone who posts a question that justifies some serious answers, I try my best to answer them. Unfortunately, all I see is whining and complaints about SQ most of the time.
WLT
boeinglover
19th Feb 2001, 19:50
WLT: Thanks for your feedback on overseas pilot training. I was having some thought about it after attended a seminar hosted by OATS at GoodWood Park Hotel not long back. Wonderful and impressive presentation I must comment. But was convinced eventually by friends in SQ that it is not worthwhile to do so. And it is definitely wiser to let SQ finance the flying training if lucky enough to be selected for it's cadet pilot scheme.
Sunny and WLT: Don worry about being called as a bus driver, I have heard this term before. Just ignore it and I should further add in saying if given the opportunity, I would love to be this kind of high class bus driver. Way to go!!!!
Cheers and Happy flying,
BL.
bl,
you are very welcome! a little tired of the topics in PPruNe now. however, will check regularly. if you have posted anything specific in the future, I may email you directly. there is a recruitment drive in March. make sure you are ready when you apply because there will be on average about three in a year over the next few years. remember that the final interview is the point of no return! good luck!
Gnote,
Be more productive, find better ways to spend your time Mr Moderator. Well, unless it is your ultimate aim to separate lies and truths in a Rumor network. Do yourself some justice, go moderate topics with deeper implications like the one posted by Gladiator. Did you read what some whiners are writing about! Where is the passion nowadays? Much later buddy!
boeinglover
20th Feb 2001, 11:52
WLT: Thanks and very much contented to communicate with you in private in the future.
Cheers,
anito4a
20th Feb 2001, 16:29
Hey WLT,
Wasn't it you who said you wanted to pursue your CPL privately and that it was gonna cost ya $150,000? Thought you also enquired about wanting to join the CX cadets?
Not that I'm keeping tabs on ya... I really couldn't care less if you're an SQ jockey or not, but the $150,000 for a CPL/IR jogged my memory. It's kinda steep for a CPL don't ya think?
think the $150,000 includes estimated living and housing at OATS. BL will have a better clue on this. know someone who is doing it at BAE Jerez, Spain and according to him, it costs $120,000 or about $30,00 less. The guy looked at Cabair in the UK too but it was as close as OATS.
Unfortunately, he was unsuccessful in the CX cadet program. Wonder why? Was told they accepted a girl who was a former flight attendant with CX.
now the guy regrets not applying to SQ at all because he is a Singapore Citizen with right of residency in HK. think CX's pay was a huge pull factor for him at that time. he may apply to both CX and SQ in about 9 months or so. watch out for him on PPruNe as he may post some very specific questions which I cannot answer
if you are gonna ask about Canada, do it after I get some rest (been flying all around today) or ask him directly if you spot him much later
Cheers
WLT
WLT:
You're a local SQ 777 F/O? I'd be interested in your views on the SQ Pilots - Give ALPAS Your View (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/012624.html) thread. There don't seem to be too many of you guys voicing your opinion on this.
Looking forward to hearing from you on that thread.
WLT,
This is called "the moment of truth". If you really are an SQ777 F/O, post your views. We are all waiting to hear them!
WSSS,
I second your challenge to WLT.
twin27
23rd Feb 2001, 22:17
yes ,150000 includes accommodation but not on site.u stay at upper heyford which is abt 10miles from the airport.pretty inconvient.i was there before.very desert raf base.
150000 is only appicable if u finish everything in 1 go and if i not wrong now u will get abt 166hrs in flying.extra hrs u have to pay.CAAS reqs min 200hrs for a 1 for 1 conversion.
Gnote
25th Feb 2001, 04:21
I don't think that WLT is going to answer those questions guys. He already admitted that he is not a SQ pilot, or a pilot for that matter.
Gnote,
You are right on target! I am a bus driver – a 6 liter Volvo with the Singapore Bus Service. I will play with you later.
About the questions, we will all wait and see. Going through the literature is tedious enough. Seriously, do you think we will really get the biggest break of our lives? C'mon ..... @#$%^@&. Think of the passion and we will all sleep better. Will write later.
WLT
Gnote,
For some strange co-incidence, I was talking to a friend who happens to be a Shrink in the only local Mental Institute in S'pore , and he tells me that he has a patient, who thinks he is a F/O in SQ and is flying the 777. This patient thinks he's been fying with SQ for 2 years too. Lately, he has a huge headache, so the Shrink tells me. His patient can't find the answers to the 2 questions which were challenged by a real pilot. The Shrink sums up his client as being Intellectually challenged!
Gnote,
Lately, the Shrink tells me that his patient now thinks that he is a Bus Driver, driving a 6 litre Volvo bus for the Singapore Bus Service!
The Shrink's advice, pay no heed to this man!
[....and this Shrink's advice..... stay on topic, folks! This one's quite funny however, but nevertheless... :)]
[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 26 February 2001).]
Oops! I have been exposed again. Try harder Lee. There is a difference between really knowing a shrink and talking like you know a shrink. BTW, hoping that I will get to drive of the extended buses you see on the road! :)
WLT
WLT,
It's called a Bendy-bus. Call a spade a spade will ya?