Is Singapore Airlines a modern day tragedy ? - have your say

[titan]

The Heritage International dictionary states:

Tragedy:

... drama in which a noble protagonist is bought to ruin essentially as a consequence of some extreme quality which is both his greatness and his downfall.

.....narrative that seriously treats of calamitous events and has an unhappy but meaningful ending.

[twitchy]

Titan I definitely agree with definition of the present SIA flt ops management which is considered to be a noble protagonist. This is the right time for the right thinking people to take appropriate steps to correct this extreme quality which is systematically ruining the SIA. I am sure if certain bold decisions are not taken now then lets hope against hope that the SQ 006 be last tregedy in SIA.......

[G.Khan]

Is this either rumour or news?

Would it not be better served in the Far East forum by the people who live there/work there?

[Lee]

Twitchy,

I'm afraid you don't understand the high-handedness of the Singapore govt.

In the 1970s, when SIA pilots wanted to strike for more pay, LKY (Lee Kuan Yew) went on TV and said openly that he was willing to close down the airline and reopen a new one and employ those pilots who weren't involved in the strike. Remember those days anyone?

He went on to compare the pay of pilots and other civil servants, comparing them with their educational qualifications, noting that SIA pilots were only "O" Level holders but could afford HUDC flats (in Lagoon View), whereas most other civil servants lived in HDB flats, some never even owned them but rented them. Remember those days?

My point is, the high-handedness of the Singapore Govt, terrifies local pilots. I can't (I can only speak for myself here) afford to rally a cause. My children are still young and if they are forfeited a place at either of the two local universities, because of me, I'm cornered.

Gladiator can call for "Reformasi", because he is safely somewhere in the US.

The Singapore Govt knows about the situation at SQ, and keeps a close tab on the local pilots. Some of these local pilots are management spies. Titan and Gladiator know this, I'm sure, they have been with SQ long enough.

[0.88M]

I agree with Lee on his last comment.
The Gov knows what has happenned and will ensure their 'plans' are carried out without hinderance.
They will never give wing-drivers more than a junior politician or graduate.
That is the system. And with most locals stradled with million dollars loans, they can't go far with "reformasi".
They'll be crushed like cockroach.
Don't think many local can live in HDB after living in private housing.
Pointless to fight if 99% thinks pilots are over paid and under worked.

[Slasher]

Lee I remember the Hitler Youth wing of SQ which comprised of FOs who wanted to climb the flight dept ladder using their work collegues as rungs, and lick the boots of M and L while playing golf with them at Sentosa. These disgusting vile creatures were everywhere at one stage, full-time backstabbing their own compatriots as well as the white trash. Is the wing still as strong or has everyone finaly learned to ostracise and spit at them (like we did)?

[Lee]

Slasher,

I'm afraid the Wing is still very much alive, with the new blood (new F/Os who have taken the places vacated by the old blood).

Backstabbing and spying are still the main activities of the Wing. They certainly still boot lick M & L.

[Asia Flyer]

Having read through your posts, I want to ask you (as a flying passenger) if the quality of pilots at SQ is lower than before or is lower than the competition?

I fly to Asia often and I am very careful about what airlines I take.

I always avoid China Airlines and Korean Air. I feel that management is irresponsible to let so many mishaps occur. Enough excuses with these two guys! I trust Eva Air and Cathay Pacific. Pilots of both airlines appear to be highly professional. Is SQ as good as Eva or Cathay?

My view on SQ 006 was that it was a freak accident. There was poor visibility, the lights of runway 5R were lit and the captain overlooked the runway check.

It was his error but something must also be done in regards to CKS Airport Authority's runway management.

[titan]

I would certainly be most cautious of flying an airline where the pilots don't trust:
- each other
- their maintenance organisation
- their management structure

Such an enormous state of conflict can not be healthy!

[twitchy]

BullS**t,
SQ a safe airlines no just the lucky one I would say,

An airline where an IP during briefing reads to you the FCTM like nursery rhimes, ask him a question and he has no answer except boasting about the SQ SOPs,
an airline where pilots moral is at its NADIR,

an airline where the pilots are ready to kill each others to boot-lick the bosses'A**,
an airline after operating for so many years want to from its pilots the following:

1. The management in Flt. Ops. Div. listens to us and cares about our concerns.
2. I feel comfortable going to chief pilot to discuss the problems.
3. Working here is like being part of a large family.
4. Management will never compromise safety concerns for profitability.
5. Pilots moral is high.
6. Pilots trust Senior Management in SIA.
7. Meritocracy has to prevail in promotion.
8. Appraisals are conducted fairy.
9. I am always aware of where I stand in promotional exercises.

whereas if answered honestly the answer to all is a big NO.

But the SQ management knows that no pilot dare to give "NEGATIVE" as an answer to any question. If so locals will have their A**es taken by the banks in repaying the loans, their kids won't get higher education if I believe LEE what he posted above and all the expats will have their employment passes cancelled.

WHO CAN CALL THIS AS A SAFE AIRLINE, yes a dishonest company agreed.


PS: Lee thanks for reminding I still remember the 1970s days, but why these pilots are cribbing here in SQ when they know that nothing they can get out of SQ

[WLT]

C'mon guys, just be grateful that you are all flying. Can you imagine those that have to work hard for a living? Let's just start with bus drivers. How about those that have applied for SQ and were rejected. Count yourselves lucky whoever you are flying for. SQ is at the moment trying its best to grapple with the problems that surfaced with the SQ006 tragedy. Give it sometime and I sincerely hope that all will be fine. As for all the boot-lickers and brown-nosers, they exist in every organization.

Lee,

Will be checking out for a long time. Take care and enjoy. Very much later. Just a quick question. Are you Singapore citizen?

[Lee]

WLT,

Yes, a true-blue Singaporean (Chinese), done my NS too. Best regards.

[sia sniffer]

Singapore bus drivers spend years driving the same route, day in, day out.Why? Safety, lah, cannot get lost or go down wrong street.Bit like pilots cant line up on wrong runways, not in Singapore. Ouch.But TIBS were always pranging their busses, and sq....

[G.Khan]

SUBJECTIVE: not impartial or literal, of individual consciousness or perception; imaginary, partial, distorted.
(Oxford English Dictionary).

[thegypsy]

WLT you really are naive if you think SIA are trying to sort anything other than covering themselves from any blame or that they are trying to get at the real roots of the problems within flight ops.I am not talking about CA saga which is just the tip of a very large iceberg.

[twitchy]

I agree with Gypsy 100 percent. The 4th floor is only running around to sweep the dust under the carpet so that nobody comes to know (after SQ006) that their floor is dirty. Actually why to blame the SQ alone this is the mentality of any airline after a disaster "save the immage of the airline". In doing so even if you have to sacrifice couple of people no problem, we can always do with out few pilots, they can be hired from any where or can be replaced among the local fodder.

WLT no you are wrong in comparing the airline pilots with the bus drivers. I feel you don't know the difference between the two.

As for being grateful, yes we all should be grateful to GOD (certainly not any airline)that we all are flying. Yes I can understand very well the plight of a local who would have aspired to be a pilot with SQ but got rejected, so he is a demoralised lot. Now he has to struggle to earn his bread every day. Life in Singapore is realy tough. You spend your whole life trying to gether dollers, you don't have time for yourself, no time to find the meaning of life, no time to give to your wife and kids the life of the people here just revolves around the dollers only. At the end you realise in life that this life has been a total waste, you could neither gether the dollers nor enjoy your family. Yes its a real pitty.

WLT I think the Expats are a better lot, not for the reason that I am trying to side them, my loyality to Singapore or the SQ is unquestioned. What I have gethered from many expat colleages that these days most of them gets lured by the glitter of the SQ, its bounus etc. They were under the impression that SQ is a very nice company to work for (for locals yes it is, where else you will find a job like this for a Singaporean in Singapore). The expats had other options too ( not the locals). But these people are lured by SQ with fancy advertisement etc. Some feels "The Singapore Girl" is very nice. Finally when they complete their line training, they realise that this is no different than the company they earlier worked for. Its too late by then, they are bonded and tied so well by the SQ and the system, they have no choice but to work here. On the contrary, there are many expats also who may be happy to work here but this may be for their individual reasons.

WLT do you know, the expats who come and join
SQ are not people from Civil, Mech., Electrical or teaching trade, who are under pressure of life + dollers who will learn their basic flying at the expense of other fellow citizens. These people have shelled out their own money to be commercial pilots, then worked hard in one or more companies on one or more aeroplanes and became a true professional with tons of experience under their belt. These people have worked enough, earned enough and enjoyed enough in their lives and are finally landed up here by default. Most of them have built the size and kind of houses which you and me in Singapore can only dream of. SQ has bought their telent and experience but will SQ give a letter of reference to these guys so that they can work some where else, NO never. After one year, in the heart of heart most of these guys envy their colleages who did not make the grade for SQ. Mind it these people are from free countries, they have many options unlike you and me in Singapore. Less said is better on this issue. Tell me in last 30 year how many of we locals have dared to step out for a job. Lets accept it that we are bonded here and we have no free say of our own. As a citizen we have no right to free expression in our own country and the same way as an employee we have no right to free expression in the company. After all company is also an arm of the Govt. So we are all as happy as a pig in a S**t.

I don't want to talk about the CA or the money here, but don't you reaaly feel in your heart that when SQ is fleecing the travelling public by its exorbitant fares, call it self a world class airline, try to beat other airlines in Pax. load etc. then why not pay its staff the world class wages.

Last let me mention to you WLT, the money is not every thing in life, no company can buy its work force's faith and commitment with money, you need to have a clean, transparent, impartial and good work culture to buy the above. This particular thing is lacking here in SQ whether it is for the local pilots or the Expats. And unless this is practiced the SQ will continue to remain a "modren day tragedy" completely confirming to explanation given in the Heritage international dictionary.

PS: The above is not wriiten to insult the feelings of any locals/expat guy in the company and if this happened, is purely unintentional, the same may please be forgiven

[SlimShadey]

Imagine a can of worms being let out after 20-odd years.....your're right!!! All hell break loose...

KNow why there are no circuses in Singapore??? Cos the clowns are running SQ Flt Ops...

[WLT]

Twitchy,

Thanks for the long and convincing posting. I understand and agree but at the same time, I too feel that there is nothing I can do about it. Take care buddy.

Slimshadey,

Where have you gone missing?

[Farside]

WLT if I would have asked a Russian 10 or so years ago what he thought of his regime, he would have said “horrible but there is nothing we can do about it”.
If I would have asked an Indonesian only a few years ago what he thought of his corrupt and sick regime he would have said ”horrible but there is nothing we can do about it” Communism is gone in Russia and the Suharto clan is with one foot in jail.
The people had enough and things have changed, although not always for the better, it still changed. All these changes came from within, and I believe strongly that if you really want change you will get it. As a group of national local pilots in Singapore Airlines, working in your own country for your own National Carrier you have to carry the candle yourself and see that you get what you want. Don’t ever expect somebody else to do that for you. So instead of only using your energies on anonymous forums like this, also get your message across to management in an strong open and direct way, free of bickering and mudslinging ,but laden with facts and reality. And talking about facts and reality there is enough around to make every body wrapped in this conflict paying attention. As I started out: TIMES ARE CHANGING!!!! CHANGE WITH IT!!!!

[John Barnes]

Farside I respect your views, and moderate optimism about the situation in Flt Ops Management, but I would like to add one more sentence to your thread. A sentence a man with your experience should look at, " TIMES ARE CHANGING, CHANGE WITH IT, AND GET THE F@#$ OUT OF THERE!!!"

Note: Sooner or later Korean will meet its numbers and you might be too late!!

[Lee]

John Barnes,

I think no one has a right to tell another person to leave. Even the Management must have a good reason. It's Farside's right to remain with SQ. I think he's doing a good job flying for SQ, it's his right to express his views, don't you know that?

[kurmitola]

Sq is infact a modern day tragedy after all....to the likes of those who ended up in court with the company and lost. my suggestion to them is..shut up and pay. Okay, okay....no one can ask someone else to shut up after all this is a public forum, but please look closely, any thread of this sort will almost certainly come from the same people. One good thing though, they dont go around changing their username like some others, you have all my respect for that although I might not agree with your opinion ( you know I don't have to..)

" me no work for SQ and have no intention of doing so cos' there's enuf job here in my not so green pasture..but originally local "

[Mapshift]

Well it's easy to complain...after 27+ years and an early retirement from Eastern (thanks to a strike)..then a short stint at GF, it needs to be said, that...it's their airline, not you expat's...when you eat at somebody's dinner table as a guest, you don't complain about the food....saw so many crybaby expats begging for a job one minute, then slagging off the host next...especially the australian "dispute" pilots I had the great displeasure to work with...so when you work in somebody else's country, if you don't like it...leave...period...

[Gladiator]

"If you don't like it, then leave"

You have missed the whole point. They are not free to leave.

Indentured servitude.

[John Barnes]

LEE, I never said that Farside had to leave. Having flown quite a few times with him, I know that he is not exactly the guy waiting for my advise, since he has a very strong opinion himself. ( and is never afraid to let you know,local or expat!!) I only told him to look at the possibillity since he might be too late when the mass start to move towards greener pastures. I still beleive what I said "GET THE f**** OUT OF THERE!"
And MAPSHIFT change your name into BRAINSHIFT because it seems that your single braincell has shifted to the lower areas of your imaculate body!!