EK DEC bashing again

[pool]

Now that the tension about the bonus and the payrise has gone, the attention of the fos goes right back to when their upgrade is due or not. Very much understandable. If however it is not right around the corner, the silly dec bashing picks up again. Actually I shouldn’t care, but reading some arguments, I can’t help buggering about this:
When making the decision to join EK or not, everyone gathers information. Not necessarily only on pprune, where the majority are whingers and sometimes complain just for the sake of it. As many of the fos point out, if you dig in the EK stuff, the regulations stipulate a distinct order of occupying the lh seat. They are then disappointed if the company does not abide to its own rules. Fair enough and understandable again. But let me ask you a few questions:

Wouldn’t it sound logical that a aspiring dec would have done the same?
Wouldn’t he have come up with the same initial information and based on them have made his decision that joining would be a fair game?
Couldn’t he be as surprised as the fos that EK is changing their rules to their liking?

Once a dec has joined and completed his training, he will then discover what really goes on. By that time he has left his old company and country for good, settled in, his family as well. Here’s another follow up question:
Do you fos then really think or expect them to say, wow, that is not right. I will instantly give up my left seat in favour of a senior fo and will line up at the end of the queue?

I suggest you stop whinging and bashing decs, it’s useless. Concentrate on your upcoming upgrade. It’s not a piece of cake. We know, we’ve been through very much the same hassle. Sometimes even worse, as lots of trainers didn’t like us and help from the right was at times pretty thin. The failure rate of upgrades shows some lack of taking the whole thing seriously. There is no conspiracy of company and decs vs. fos, just try to deliver what they ask for. And you will also need help, be it from the rh seat or from a trainer, who might just happen to be a dec.

Life’s a bitch and you are in the sharks pool now.

[watertheflowers]

Unbelievable.

A DEC whining about the hard time he was supposedly given on his training.

Which I doubt. Unless background, experience and personality were a factor. But surely not.

[pool]

Any sensible answer to my questions, wtf?
Just throwing dirt reveals the real character.

[Saltaire]

You expect something sensible?

Nothing of what you say really matters, because right or wrong, it is the current policy, so everyone must accept it. It's a winfall for many, especially the charter, bankruptcy, third tier 737, 320 operators etc. You know who you are...very, very fortunate I'd say.

So just be thankful you found a very generous opportunity with EK's explosive expansion and quietly read the paper...

Sharks pool? :rolleyes:

[White Knight]

"Not a piece of cake" - oh, I didn't think it was difficult:E

[Fart Master]

Dude you gotta be taking the piss, cause if you really are a DEC then you're right up there with BM as the biggest DEC k**b in the company.

Take both the chips off your shoulders and crawl back under whatever rock you came from.

Boo f***ing hoo, what did you expect a f***ing medal.:{:{

You jump the queue and then start bitching....huh:confused::confused:

And then you pull out the 'what's your problem' card when someone inevitably has a go at you, how in gods name you got through selection is beyond me, although I could ask myself the same question given my intolerance of fools:=

[mensaboy]

I have an answer for you Pool.

First off, let us assume that every person with a clear and open mind agrees that the DEC policy is not only unnecessary but a failure. Debatable is the issue that it is cost effective.

The company has dug a hole for itself and now is compelled to continue if not accentuate this policy. It is impossible for some of our management types to admit they made a huge miscalculation 4 years ago. Secondly the bean counters can show charts and graphs that seemingly support the myth that DEC's are more cost effective. It does not take into account the loss of qualified pilots, the loss of potential qualified pilots and the goodwill of the pilot group...... something that no one can put a price on.

DEC's cost more to recruit. They have had a much higher failure rate than F/O's. They have in the past been given preferential treatment wrt to accomodation and even schedules (not so anymore). They have a much higher rate of book-offs (told to me by buddy who is intimately involved in personnel matters......... I cannot verify that ) They also induce a higher rate of book-offs by F/O's. They are hired on a payscale higher than some present Captains. They will stay at EK for a shorter period of time than the average pilot. They sometimes do not have as much relevant experience as many of the F/O's waiting for command. The DEC policy has had a dramatic effect on recruitment. When taking into account all factors and not simply the BS put forth by the company through their minions, the DEC policy costs more in the long run !!!

There is NOT a general sentiment that all DEC's are scabbs and worthless pieces of crap. Unfortunately there are some that fit that category to a tee. Take Capt America or 767Jock for example. These types of individuals become lightening rods for a policy that disadvantages some for their own advantage.

I will relate a story of my earlier sim with a DEC. He actually lectured me on the first day when in reality he completely messed up the sim. The following day, he was chastised by the TRE regarding his performance. Anyone familiar with sims at EK must know that Captains are given the benefit of the doubt and F/O's are held to task for any errors. In this particular instance, this DEC was held to task and rightfully so. His attitude was shocking and his performance was dismal and thankfully the TRE was smart enough to give him a few good body shots.

Therein lies the problem. Some DEC's come to EK actually believing that they are somehow better than the F/O's waiting for command. This is misguided arrogance and not an indication of someone with good CRM or command skills. It is a messed up and totally insane policy for an airline with tons of competent F/O's waiting for command.

One other story, if you can bear with me. I also flew with a DEC who was clearly behind the power curve when it came to the A332. The big difference with this man was that he knew it, openly admitted it and we operated the flight as a team. He was not some arrogant primadonna, he was simply a pilot who took advantage of a misguided policy of an airline.

If ALL DEC's showed some compassion and understanding of the true situation at EK, I doubt that anyone would ever hold anything against them.

I for one have never held anything against DEC's. I do not believe any DEC is to blame for the policy. But I certainly understand why so many feel anger and animosity towards DEC's. A percentage of these pilots are idiots. They have no concept of what the policy has done to others and no inclination to ever try to understand. These are the same individuals who are appalling to fly with and get on this forum and try to justify their existence.

Points of fact; DEC's were never a requirement at EK
The DEC policy was instituted as a cost saving measure (albeit misguided)
A small percentage of DEC's truly deserve the reputation they have.

Why not just admit...... yeah its a fooked up policy but I had to take advantage of it. I am not better or worse than you, I just got lucky in my timing. Clearly this is beyond the capacity of some individuals.

[pool]

I knew I would touch a nerve and, believe me, I consent with a lot of what you guys say.
But you have basically not yet responded to my question:
Do you agree that some decs joined with the premonition of not doing any wrong, as they have read and heard the same rules as the disappointed fos?
What would you do when you joined as one and found out about the game?

The other nerve I touched was the one with the advice I gave. Well, anyone would give the same, as it it is not rocket science but the bare truth, based on experience. Mind you, not mine, but industry experience. Take that advice or leave it.
Leaves us with the stories about performance of decs. Aviation holds millions of tales about captains, fos, female pilots, cadets, so called third world pilots and the cream of it from oz. Believe them or not, at least they sound great after a couple of beers.
I consent with a lot of your criticism, but actually don’t really know what to do with it, as it is out of our hands. By bashing the decs you might hope to scare more off, just as others try to scare off fos to punish the company for its policy, and to their own advantage as well, lets face it. Does that really work? If you want to inform wannabees objectively, then let my view of the things slip through just as yours. It might even be more productive. You basically leave a trail of hatred behind and at the same time talk about crm. That doesn’t bode well for professionals and takes away credibility about your proclaimed higher proficiency. We’re stuck with what the company wants to do, anywhere, anytime, as it is culture around here. The divide et impare works only into their hands, as long as we play that game.

[mensaboy]

''Do you agree that some decs joined with the premonition of not doing any wrong, as they have read and heard the same rules as the disappointed fos?''


Yes I agree.

[glidder]

You jump the queue and then start bitching....
:=
DEC don't jump any queue, they just join the one that has been offered to then.

[Fart Master]

Incorrect, we are ALL in a queue waiting to get our commands. DEC's jump ahead of a lot of the others, so no I don't accept your view.

Or if you want it another way, there are 3 queues in Emirates;

1. 3 Year guys.... yes that's right the guys that the FOM says get FIRST crack at the command course...... hmm now is the DEC jumping that queue... YES

2. The accelerated guys, please apply Queue no.1 situation to this queue.

3. Last and least the DEC's, IN THAT ORDER.... but no they go to the front of the queue.



Actually I don't understand pooh's..... sorry pool's question, please elaborate

:= ...there you go you can have a wavy finger too:=

[fatbus]

read the FOM again and you will find the anwser to his guestion .
the company can and will crew the airplanes anyway they have to.
the overriding factor WRT upgrades- IF they have the correct numbers of pilots for both seats, IF not they will and can use DEC's, which has been the case longer than the last 5 years.

[Fart Master]

Exactly, so why employ DEC's when there are eligable FO's

[cpt744]

I'm compelled to put in a few words here. It seems to me that EK will eventually pick up what my present employer SQ is doing: Wide scale DEC recruitment as and when HR deems necessary.
As far as I'm concerned during my FO days, it's ok with me if the DEC that came along was positive in his attitude + up to the task. It's NOT ok if all he had was some narrow body experience, bought himself a cheap rating from some unknown flying school and just because some bean counters had deemed him suitable, he then could try teach a 9-year on-type FO on how to fly a 744 whilst he screwed it up big time during his own SIM ride. Or for the matter of fact, one couldn't even balance the fuel during cruise as he's just too confused with where's to where and what's to what, amongst many tales that I can go on and on.
In all, for all the FOs in EK, fight on while you still have the tide and hang in there. Don't make it easy for the DEC, and I know for the fact many won't dare to join with this sort of environment awaits them. And sadly, guess where they'll end up?? Well they may laugh coming to my side of the fence, and obviously they haven't had a chance for a line check with me. :E yet.

[CRJDOG]

How long ago did the dec program come about?
This program is very concerning for us wannabe's I forsee alot of US airlines going down and this DEC problem could get worse.

With that said I dont think its the DEC's fault, but we all have to look after ourselves sometimes. The DEC looked after himself , managment looked after themselves and if the FO's need to give them hell, managment hell or anyone else hell to protect thier upgrade then so be it. I hope it works to change a f 'ed up policy. This may be your only chance to stop it. So please exagerate , lie or whatever else you have to do to get this changed and to stop DEC's from even considering EK. So DEC's have some grace and grin and bare it! Its only to get things changed.

No offense to the current DEC's , I would have done the same and so would any FO if they were given the chance. Anyone claiming otherwise is full of shat. That would be like turning down a winning lottery ticket because there are poor people in the world!

Can anyone elaborate on the excellerated comand program . 18 months if you meet certain criteria is what we were told at the road show. Is this new? This could really piss people off too!

[White Knight]

I guess ICAO 'level 6' english isn't being attained by many:rolleyes:

[SierraAlpha]

Hello Aviators,

Just got back from interview with EK as F/O. I did raise the issue of DEC, and the guys in the interview panel said that they have stopped hiring DEC, but they will hire a DEC who is a rated instructor or examiner esp. on airbus fleet as the existing examiners/instructors are moving to the A380. I dont know how accurate their info is. They also said that at this time the expected time to promotion on Airbus fleet is four year and some months while for the B777 its about three years and two months.

Cheers

[Flying Spag Monster]

Pool you are right of course, DECs join knowing the same about EK as FOs do, so why should they complain when the rules change eh? But I wonder how you would react if the company turned around to you and said.."sorry old chap, we have an FO ready for command who has a higher company seniority to you. I'm afraid you were the last DEC to join so you will have to become an FO so he can have your left seat" You wouldn't get on Pprune and whinge about that would you....?

Funny how you start a post complaining about DEC bashing, knowing full well that the post will only lead to more...

[Wiley]

How long ago did the dec program come about? A very long time ago. See the boldface at the very end of the quote below for details of the first lot of EK DECs. “.....There beith men who canst teacheth our young warriors these mysteries. They art knownst as cameleers.”

“Dost thou speaketh of the rabble who leadest the beasts of the foreigners’ caravans?”

“Verily, Sire.”

“But… but to a man, they seemith a rowdy, ill-bred caste who causeth no end of trouble. Whilst their camels resteth, dost they not frequenth only the lowliest sherbet stands and pursueth maidens of the illest repute?”

“That beist so, Sire. It beith widely said that in any city along the far-flung caravan routes, should a stranger follow a cameleer, he willst surely findeth the cheapest sherbet and comely maidens of the lowliest kind.”

“And thou sayest these devilish foreign cameleers be needeth here, to live amongst our people in Knoteetinghamm?”

“Yea, Sire, but only until they have shown our own young warriors the ways of the camel.”

“So be it. We willst suffer these mannerless ruffians in Knoteetinghamm for a short time. But I fear they willst sully our fair land. Wouldst that We knew how to controlleth such an ill bred rabble.”

“We willst employith a Master Cameleer to controlleth them, Sire.”

“A Master Cameleer? But wouldst he not be like unto the rest of his tribe, perhaps worse?”

“Nay Sire, for we willst findeth a Master Cameeleer from within the ranks of the Expurtexpat tribe.”

“The Expurtexpat tribe? We knowest this tribe not.”

“The Expurtexpat careth not one whit for the others in his tribe, Sire, but only for himself. There are many such men among the cameleers’ ranks, men who will do Thy every bidding if Thou payest pay him enough gold.”
“Then findeth Us such a man and summon him here.”

“There beith a score gathered at Thy door as we speaketh, Sire, for the Exurtexpat canst smellth the promise of gold from a thousand leagues away. They pitched their tents at Thy gate the moment Thee bought the autocamels.”

And so the Cherif of Knoteetinghamm and his trusted courtiers chose one Yasser Wateverusay as their Master Cameleer – by far the smoothest talking Exurtexpat from the many supplicants at their city gates. Yasser Wateverusay promised that with a single snap of his fingers, he could gather together a band of seasoned cameleers to teach the young Knoteetinghammi warriors the ways of the autocamel – and then begone.

And so the messengers hastened forth, far out across the burning sands, in search of cameleers. But alas!, the messengers returned fearful of their Master’s wrath, for at that time, seasoned cameleers were in great demand in their own lands, and few were willing to come to the unknown, burning deserts of Knoteetinghamm for the trinkets and beads Yasser Wateverusay’s messengers offered them.

The Cherif sat back upon his throne. What was he to do(eth)? The silver-tongued Wateverusay’s promises were like unto an empty drum – all noise and little substance. Without cameleers, his expensive camels would doeth naught but eat what little precious grass the sands of Knoteetinghamm provided, and his visionary plans of a mighty caravan wouldst be stillborn.

Fearful of losing his nicelittlearner in the Cherif’s court, Yasser Wateverusay whispered into his master’s ear. “Sire, gold wouldst tempt cameleers to our shores.”

The Cherif pondered on this advice. These camels werest already more trouble than they werest worth. But what was he to doeth? Marcelhardcel had long since disappeared across the dunes, his saddlebags heavily laden with the Cherif’s gold.

He clapped his hands, commanding his court to silence. “Let it be so. Offereth these cameleers gold. So let it be written.”

Yasser Wateverusay called unto the weary messengers. “Resteth not, O footsore, dusty ones. Harken to our Lord’s command – go forth again forthwith with promises of gold for all cameleers and effohs who will cometh to our shores.”

The Cherif commanded silence. What had his Master Cameleer said? “We commanded thee to seeketh cameleers. Pray tellest – what beith this word eff-oh of which thou speakest?” He rolled the strange-sounding word across his unaccustomed lips, almost fearful that it was some vile and secret curse, for it had a base and nasty ring to it.

Yasser Wateverusay smiled his most ingratiating smile. “Sire, the effoh beith the poorest excuse for a man – the lowliest of lowly castes that willst worketh for the scraps and leavings fromst Thy table. However, they beith a necessary evil on every caravan.”

“Effohs. We have heardeth not this strange name before. Whence commeth it frometh?”

“Sire, the effoh beith the caravan’s effluent orderly.”

“Effluent orderly? Dost thou meanest he collecteth the **** from the autocamel?”

“Yea, Sire, but not just from the autocamel. The effoh’s lot in life beith to taketh **** from all quarters as he walketh close behind the autocamel in the dust.”

“Dost thou sayeth he walketh under the autocamel’s tail and taketh **** from all quarters?”

“Yea and verily it is true, Sire – from everyone. All tribes considerth themselves the superior of the lowly effoh. Why, even the Miserly bin Beancounter tribe looketh down upon them.”

“They must taketh **** from such as the Miserly bin Beancounters?” The Cherif shook his head in wonder. “’tis extraordinary, truly extraordinary. But pray tell, what else(th) doth this effoh doeth?”

“Sire, whilst taking **** from all quarters, the effoh watcheth the road ahead to warn the cameleer of potholes or falling rocks from the cliffs above.”

“And if the cameleer heedeth him not, what then of this effoh?”

“Sire, ’tis then the lowly effoh must singeth loudly the effoh’s ancient mantra. Whenever the cameleer directeth the autocamel into a pothole or causeth it to loseth its load, it beith the effoh’s task to chant this ancient incantation: “Yessiree, cameleer, the road sure is bumpy.” From whence this strange chant cometh is lost in antiquity, but ’tis sung with great gusto by this craven caste. Those who doeth it not are spurned by their cameleers and damned to remain lowly effohs forever.”

“A lowly caste they beith indeed to liveth on scraps and tuggeth their forelocks so! But We cannot seeith the need for such a caste in Our caravan. The deserts are wide – Our caravans canst scatter **** to the four winds without the need for such as these effohs to gather it up.”

Yasser Wateverusay bowed low. “Sire, Thou art wise and we hasten to do Thy bidding. But pray, wouldst Thou reconsider, for ’tis from these lowly effoh ranks that the cameleers we now seeketh doth cometh. Why, Thy own young warriors must joineth their ranks ere they become cameleers themselves.”

“Mocketh Us not, Master Cameleer. Our own young warriors shouldst join such a lowly caste? Joketh thou at Our royal expense?”

Yasser Wateverusay trembled and was silent, at once in fear of his head – (or was that ‘his job’?) – for already he had learned that the Cherif’s anger when aroused was awesome indeed and feared throughout the Land.

The wise old courtier came to his aid. “Nay, Sire, he speaketh truly, even if ’tis said that most cameleers hasten to forgetteth this be so. Before any man becometh a cameleer, he must first servith as a lowly effoh. This way, he learneth the many ways of a cameleer, most importantly how to avoideth the autocamel’s bite. The day his Master sayeth “Riseth up, I dubdeth thee cameleer,” – this beith for the effoh the sweetest time of all, and one for which every effoh waiteth impatiently. It then becometh his lot in life to heapeth **** and scorn upon his own lowly effoh and quickly forgetteth that he wast ere once one himself.”

“Cannot we findest cameleers aplenty already skilled enough to dodgeth their own potholes?”

Yasser Wateverusay grovelled in subservience at his Master’s feet, mindful that here, earlier than he had thought, was his chance to prolong his nicelittlearner in the Cherif’s court, perhaps indefinitely. “Alas, would that it be so, Sire, but no. We must taketh unto ourselves foreign effohs as well, for as Thy caravan groweth, Thou willst needith more cameleers than Thou canst find among Thy own young warriors.”

The Cherif held his hands aloft for silence, for such had not been his plan at all. “Why beist this so?”

“Ahh, Sire, because the autocamels willst walketh the caravan routes all through the longlunchbreak and night as well.”

“Through the longlunchbreak?” The Cherif hadn’t considered that. Very few Knoteetinghammi warriors would work through the longlunchbreak.

“Yea, Sire. And on feast and holy days as well.”

The courtiers muttered among themselves at this startling news. The caravans wouldst continue to walketh through the longlunchbreak, at night and on feast and holy days? Their sons wouldst taketh some convincing before they’d want a slice of that cake, boyo.

Yasser Wateverusay saw that he had scored heavily with this point. His face impassive, he clenched his fist under the folds of his long robes in silent glee. Yess-ss! Golf club membership, a company phorwealdryve and a spacious tent with three comely servant girls – and not just for a shorttermcontract, but right up to retirement! Ahh, life was sweet!

He carefully adopted a ponderous tone. “Yea Sire, whenever possible, a wise Master Cameleer will entrusteth his autocamels only to the hands of cameleers whose skills he knoweth well. What better way to learneth the true worth of any aspiring cameleer than first to observeth him as an effoh calling warnings of oncoming potholes and falling rocks? For it is written that many cameleers who willst seeketh to joineth Thy caravan will cometh not from the caravan routes, but from the tribe of Parker bin Pehn.”

“This tribe of Parker bin Pehn. We knowest it not.”

“Ah, Sire, the Parker bin Pehn beith a secretive sect and one which plyeth its trade behind tightly closed tent flaps with but a single quill. Many an unwary Master of Cameleers hast fallen foul of this widely scattered tribe. They willst enter Thy house glibly, bearing stirring testimonials from masters who in fact knewest them not. These richly bound scrolls willst speak of wondrous deeds on caravans they have travelled – but, alas! they willst have travelled these routes but only in their dreams.”

“Then surely We must avoideth such vile creatures.”

“Verily, ’tis so, Sire.” (The full ‘Caravan’ transcript is available somewhere in the Pprune archives. Sorry, can’t find it, or I would post the URL.)

[angryblackman]

Maybe you need to become an AMERICAN! It's not our fault that we (DEC's) are the best in the world! That we come current and qualified in A330's (Northwest / US Air) and B777's (American/Delta/United).
You Brits, Canooks, and Auszee's whine to much, and clearly lack the skill necessary for command, so just sit in the right seat, put the gear up, talk on the radio, and let a true professional safely fly the airplane...not (aeroplane). You little people need to learn to spell correctly.:D

[616200]

...Mmmmmhhh.. Perfect example of CRM.... :yuk:

[Saltaire]

angryblackman ? says it all. Nice handle. Like anything you have to offer would actually be taken seriously.

I'd also change your location if you choose to slag Canucks, although I certainly wouldn't....YVR is beautiful.

The airline is desperate for people and so be it. If they want DEC's to expand and hire what's out there :yuk:....we live with it. They were hired initially for the 343's that were bought for a song, but were later found to be cost effective...so it continues...bad for morale etc, but halas, it is what it is.

[stellar]

Have you heard the one about the FO who gets on the crew bus from briefing and the most junior cabin crew says "oh are you one of them direct ole fellows (DOFs) from an other airline" - no says the FO aghast! who evry other weekend spends his time dyeing his hair......badly!!!! What came first the grey hair or the time trying to outdo a DEC. You decide EKers.(Can recommend good hair colourist if interested)
Stellar:p:uhoh:

[cerbus]

It shows the fortitude of EK pilots that just accept DECs. Now I know there is nothing we can do to actually stop the program but we can make it pretty miserable for the DECs once they do come to the sand. It is not a good program was never needed and had long outlived its supposed usefullness. The company sucks and so do the DECs, its time to treat them both the same.

[expat400]

Cpt744.

I applaud your high moral values. Being a Training Captain on 744 in SQ you would still apply as a FO if you would need to get a job with another airline.

Listen and learn fellow aviators! The man is a great example for all of us.

[P.Clostermann]

It has, it always will be, the same in any rapidly expanding airline.

The bean counters and the management will always revert to HIRING DEC simply because this way they can fool themselves that the pilot numbers required fulfil their wishes to fly a certain number of airplanes.

I must say I truly liked reading 747s post, as he puts the whole thing into perspective.

When being a senior FO in a company, you have certain expectations towards upgrading. But at the same time, you are supposed to be smart enough to realise that DEC firing might be a solution for the company as well.

And I am sure that this would work in case everybody understood the system, and this includes the freshly hired DECs.

Unfortunately, and this seems to be the case in QR as well as in EK and EY, in general these DECs are of a very low level. We have guys here flying the left seat of an A330 with nothing else but 1500hrs PIC on a CRJ flying domestic routes in the states! At the same time we have senior FOS with 10000+ hours and several years experience on the QR A330s!
This causes frustration, especially when these DECs are incredibly weak to say the least of it

To make it all worse, in many cases these guys actually think that they are much better than the FOs they fly with!

Life would be so much easier for all of us when:


Management realised they need a balance between hiring DEC and upgrading own FOs
They should come out with a clear policy, and stick to it!
Hiring DEC is only a temporarily solution!
The DECs hired realised the luck they just had, and work together with the FOs in stead of just assuming they, as DEC, are sooooo much better!

To all DECs……It’s not because you had the luck to fly as a commander in your previous airline, that you should think this is a given right!

We all know, or should know, that in many cases this has just been given to you because your number came up on the list! Not because you are gods greatest gift to aviation!

After all, we are ALL just pilots. FO and CAPT.

EGOs in aviation will get us all killed!


P.Clostermann
DEC at QR

[BlunderBus]

and for an outstanding example of american 'pilothood' come to cathay pacific and see just how they fall in large numbers under the cx training!

[White Knight]

Hey angryblackman - come say I'm a little person to my face. You may be surprised:E:E
And it's not Auszee, but Aussie - correct spelling please dipstick!

[Saltaire]

Wee one, back again... are personal attacks really neccessary?

Do you have anything worthy to contribute? We know you're from a UK charter flying a 737 and likely bombed on your EK DEC interview :O, but now sadly peruse the ME website.

[captainsmiffy]

Angryblackman, since you insulted, amongst others, my fellow Brits and brought spelling to the fore in doing so (and don't forget, it is our language in the first instance!) then I feel that you should understand that the 'to' in your diatribe should read 'too'; a little more attention to detail is required!! I haven't even mentioned colour or centre!! If you are going to 'slate us' then do have the decency to do it correctly!! Good day.

[NO LAND 3]

Boy, you guys really know how to take the bait!