time to command in Emirates

[middlepath]

PPRUNE has been great sourse for joining Emirates, I still need more research to do regarding command prospect. I have applied for DEC but was offered FO position. Terms & conditions, specially the pay is much better with my current employer in Europe for the same position and type flying. I always had desire to join Emirates since many years, I am aware of living condition of DXB and other hurdles ect ect. No employer is perfect no country is perfect and there will be always +&-, life is compromise, give and take.

I would be very grateful if any of you in Emmirates would kindly give genuine informations regarding time to command for someone like me joining as FO. I was told quick command during interview, would like to know realistic quick. Does it depent on individual performance or whatelse is required for quick upgrade.The quick upgrade to command would be an attraction plus compansets the pay cut. Only serious informations please, or PM.
Thank you very much to all in advance.:ok:

[GoreTex]

your pay is better in europe and you still want to come to emirates?

[FL XXX]

As far as know in reality from what I've heard is 5 yrs. Still not bad!

[middlepath]

5 years wait for command is longer than I was expecting,specially when I already have wide body pic time.thanks for the information anyway.

[Chuck Y]

I believe you will have to wait for some time for an upgrade since all the fo's are very very very very very very very very ultra-experienced. But who knows, rumours are flying that NASA will be coming to Dxb to try and tap some of this unclaimed talent. Even heard that Airforce 1 approached a few of the guys.

[middlepath]

if there are plenty highly experienced fos within the company then what is the main reason behind DEC. is there high upgrade failure rates? dont get the DEC philosophy. my enthusiasm is slowly fading.

[Qatari515]

DECs are more easy to train and push out on line...


DECs are supposed to be experienced Commanders, so no risk lays on the compan's shoulders.

There is a huge shortage of experienced FOs and when you find them, they are much cheaper to deploy than commanders...

Etc etc etc....

[kashima]

Hello,
I will be interviewing at Emirates in July. Ofcourse have a lot of questions. Specifically preparing for the written pilot knowledge test. Is studying the ATP gleim book sufficient or is there any other material recommended.

Thanks

[malyr]

Hi all,
The problem comes when companies, for any reasons, allow more DEC than own upgrades.
It is just a problem of time and money.
F/o´s need more time to complete the restrictions than a DEC so it´s more expensive and they need a bit more of training
To be fair it should be 50% upgrades and 50% DEC´s and everybody happy.
So if the companies in the Gulf have so many orders I can tell you it is not a problem of money it is just a problem of organization.
Maybe the training department is getting smaller instead of bigger.

good luck :ok:

[Wiley]

To be fair it should be 50% upgrades and 50% DEC´s and everybody happy.Eh????

You have no idea, do you?

[Geragau]

Chuck Y (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=181384)

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: L301 westbound
Age: 43
Posts: 82


I believe you will have to wait for some time for an upgrade since all the fo's are very very very very very very very very ultra-experienced. But who knows, rumours are flying that NASA will be coming to Dxb to try and tap some of this unclaimed talent. Even heard that Airforce 1 approached a few of the guys.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha....never laugh so loud and long for a long long time. Thanks Chuck, a real good one!

[Wizofoz]

It is still running at three years on the Boeing, though the current group waiting for training has been delayed about four months, simply because of a lack of capacity in the training system.

Bus has sat at four years for a while. Once the 380 (finally!!) arrives, it should put the bus back to the minimun three years.

We are tripling the fleet over the next 15 years, so it's going to be a good long while before recruitment and promotions slow down. NO ONE has had to wait five years, and I can't see that any time soon.

[Capt.Bee]

Middlepath you are wide body Cap in Europe, and you want to surrender your left seat (higher salary,Europe) for a right one at mediocre/average middle eastern company. Man I don't get it. I just don't get it. Sorry.........

[fatbus]

just do the math, number 2000 now needs 2000 new guys behind him

4-500 /year = 4-5 year to upgrade and thats for pilot number 2000 by the end of the years it would be pilot number 2400 pushing things out even more

have a look at the last 500 guys hired and you will find most are boeing and will be next year , this years upgrade @ 150 maybe more next year but cant really do much more

ask your mates on the 777 how many failures there has been including the interview. this has something to do with the slow down. 777 trainers right now not working to the max(fact)

the bus will run out of 3 year fo's very soon. prior to this latest slowdown AB upgrades were to be back to 3 years early 09 and beyond that will run short of three years guys( read DEC )

DEC's on the 777 because upgrade numbers cant keep up with the plan

right now both fleets doing well, small surplus of capt's, getting ready for the summer

[kingpost]

middlepath

Do EK a favour and stay where you are. The last thing they need is someone who lacks the command experience trying to jump the queue, although that has happened before.

Why uproot yourself, earn less for a job that could end up being a let down for you. You know what they say about the greener grass......Who knows you might not make the upgrade course or interview when you're number comes up - then you're really going to regret your decision.

Be warned, Rather stay put!

[cerbus]

Did you ever wonder why you would join an airline that offers you a DEC position then take notice of how said company treat their employees after you have arrived? Just because they offer you a DEC (jump the queue) ask what kind of airline screws its existing employees to line you up.

[Wizofoz]

Fatbus,

10% attrition and retirements, almost exclusivley from Captains with more than three years on board, means that in three years time, No 2000 is now No 1600. 500 new pilots a year (they wanted 650 this year but can't train that fast) and we arrive at 3.2 years- bout right.

[fatbus]

Well its not 10% and we cant get 500 pilot a year , this years number will work out to @425 and with @ 260 upgrades that puts us short of FO's . The 600 number was just a rumour started by our own. Ive been here over 6 years and have moved up the list 100 numbers. If they can find them and train them the upgrades will be shorter, but the new guys need to have a realistic outlook for their own good.

[KERDADA]

U looking for a minimum of 5+ years according to today's policy. The probleme being that the DEC policy is "in'' and ''out'' depending on ..:confused:.
The F.O are very experienced and lots of them have commend time!!
They really deserve a clear policy or a push :rolleyes:.

Safe flying..

[middlepath]

kingpost

Tanks for the advice.You are right, there is a possibility that I may not meet EK standards.

wizofoz

Would you kindly summerise the command upgrading process. I have same sort of questions as picolo was asking under a different thread. When a fo meets minimum required experience, does he wait in que till his turn comes as per date of joining and then join command upgrade course or have to go through some sort of selection process for command upgrade.
finally do you have high failure rate?
If you choose not coment on public forum, pls PM. Many thanks.:ok:

[watertheflowers]

Hey Wizofoz

You didn't mention the 50+ DECs (more if they can) that EK will employ each and every year. On its own that will take command the far side of 4 years.
Then there's delayed 380 deliveries in 2009, market turndown due fuel costs, lack of trainers, more DECs because F/Os won't join because of the DEC program and so on..........

My 'guess' is 4 to 6 years for upgrade for someone joining in 2009. Your 3.2 years to command is mischievous misinformation.

[middlepath]

wizofoz
could you kindly shedlight on command upgrade process at EK or PM, thanks.:ok: