MAS Cabin Crew

[cabinscrews]

Any comments on the working conditions? Lets start a lively debate on this matter....

[ManaAdaSystem]

Thats easy.
You don`t have any. I once did the mistake of blocking at 06:28 PM. The cabincrew didn`t speak to me for 3 weeks after that. Little did i know that makanmoney account for 2/3 of the total salary, and that we should have delayed the flight 3 more minutes. It never happened again! Sorry, sorry, sorry!

Have you flown with any LIMs lately? Captain Offload?

[squak7700]

The only way that cabin crew in MAS can get a better deal/working condition is to be out of the present union manned by ground staff.High time they form their own union.How can a non flight crew exco understand the plight of the air crew.For them it's a luxury for cabin crew to be in London,given first class accomodation and be paid meal allowance albeit a pittance and yet negotiate for higher basic salary plus productivity allowance for the crew?They will never serve the interest of the flight crew so why bother to continue under that umbrella.

[PILOST]

Totally agree with you squak7700.They are getting shafted by union reps who aren't even sure about the cabin crew work conditions.Their union presently is a political animal & a stepping stone.

Presently our cabin crew is the best bar none in the world,but I don't know how far their selfless act will last.Not at the present pay & working enviroment anyway.

Safe Flying all
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
PILOST

[cabinscrews]

Hey! Never thought I'd get a response from you guys. Happy to note that y'all understand the feelings and situation facing your other half. :)
Efforts to form our own representation gets shot to bits due to the fact that if cabin crew pulls out from MASEU, membership fees that the union makes to plunder and spend wud drop by almost 45% ~ a motion that MASEU wud not tolerate...
Any help or suggestions from Tek-side?

[TTail]

From what I've heard the working conditions (atleast for the ones wearing pakaians) were significantly better when there were matsaleh tech crew around.....
What are your experiences on that Mana Ada ?

[ManaAdaSystem]

Well TTail, can`t speak for them all, but i never experienced any orang putihs doing the "pre-departure interrogation", and subsequently offloading the pretty ones, just because they "failed" some bull***t EP questions. Never saw any expat captains forcing cabincrews to meet in their hotelroom for a "debrief". Or to participate in karaoke sessions for that matter. Fear and intimidation is the preferred method of leadership among a large group of "Lims" it seems.

[cabinscrews]

The sad part in this whole story is that our own people tend to do the abusing of power or position. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif
Then again, some sr. male cabin crew flying for donkey years still do that b**lsh*t debrief when it comes pretty ones. One fine day, they might just get their daughther going thru' that traumatic situation...baru padan!
Work wise, until the union realise that cabin crew are also their bread n butter, the f*ck**g conditions won't improve...
regards

[Elevation]

cabinscrew,
I thought that the after flight special one-to-one "debrief" is a thing of the past....

Their action is only making the situation worse for the junior crew : getting screwed by the management AND you colleagues !

These people should be thrown to the lions in Zoo Negara !

[cabinscrews]

Elevation -> you are definately right on the 'throwing them to the lions' solution.

There are still some of those WB 'buggers' (probably viagra enhanced!) who loves to make life miserable for the wretched girls. Then again, there are also some 'mak-tiri' on our 73's that don't get enuff at home, thus they come to work and make life hell for evryone!

You fellas in the flight deck shud observe these 'grumpy ol' fellas' when they get your drinks & food ready - you might just have something prepared with germs that has freq. flier points that a Tan Sri might find very enviable!

The two way comms. that the company and the union preaches somehow make me feel that MAYBE the equipment that they have is only good for ONE way communication. The HF comms over India & AFGHAN airspace has better reception... chances that anything getting any better in the near future is like hoping to hear Celine Dion sing softly...

regards n keep it safe up there...

[antibiase]

Ever since cabin crew came under the wings of Flight OPerations, the crew have been subjected to much abuses. Not only are the crew subjected to abuse but also have become victimised by some in Flight Operations.
1. How is it possible that crew can be
punished by following the Collective
Agreement?
2. Why is there a difference in the Meal
allowances paid to cabin crew and pilots?
3. When pilots have 2 sets of crew to
operate a long haul flight, why cabinc
crew only one set of crew?
4. During a diversion, a Captain is paid an
additional of 2 hours = RM600.00 as
compared to a cabin crew who is only paid
RM100.00.
5. when IFS was given suites or better
rooms, today being under flight
operations, the IFS is not given the same
privileage anymore. It is not fair that a
Co-pilot who is much junior in the
company should be given the better room.

Most of the benefits given to the pilots are at the expense of the cabin crew.
When are we going to get out from under them and become a department of our own.
The flight operations is also saying that it was due to them that cabin crew managed to receive the awards it received.
To this I say....Bull....!
Flight Operations had nothing to do with it. The cabin crew truly deserved all the accolades it has received and this was due to their hard work and dedication.
Unfortunatly, today the crew are being bullied and are totally demoralised.
To be on our own as a union would be difficult to achieve but maybe an association.
All I ask is that we be given the right to choose and decide what we want.

[PILOST]

Antibiase,while trying not to sound too condemning.......in short,it's your own union's fault.

All the complaints that you listed should be brought up by your union reps.They are the ones who are responsible to fight for your rights.Believe me,I had a lot of complaints from my colleagues & friends from your dept.,ironically they are complaining to a normal line pilot!All I could do is to lend a sympathetic ear......sad isn't it?You should have exercise your right to vote at the last MASEU AGM.The malaise that you suffer from is your own doing.My only advice is that you should form your own union or failing which,resign from the MASEU membership.As it is,you form the bulk of their membership & don't have the correct balanced representation.A mass resignation will definitely wake up the EXCO who consists mainly of self serving non cabin crew staff.

Undenialably,the awards that you received are definitely through the cabin crew's hard work,dedication & personality.My only concern is how long is the 'golden service' going to last before the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back.

At the end of the day it's people like you who should take charge & make the change,rather than waiting for a miracle.

Till then all the best & good luck.

Safe Flying.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
PILOST

[antibiase]

It is quite okay to make comments such as that. However you must realise the difference between the Pilots and Cabin Crew.
All the pilots have to do is to threaten the company that 10 of the pilots are leaving to join another airline and the company will succumb to their wishes. If the cabin crew were to do the same, they will just operate minus crew complement.
As a pilot, do you not feel responsible to ensure that you have the full comlement of crew to operate any safety related emergencies?
For you to suggest that the crew get out of MASEU, clearly indicates your lack of understanding in the whole issue.
If the cabin crew were to do just that, what negotiating power would we have as most of the crew do not understand nor do they care of their rights when it is compromised.
There are certain conditions that are in the C.A signed between MASEU and MAS. If the cabin crew were to form their own association, there is no assurance that we will still enjoy the benefits we are enjoying today.
Would you like to gurantee that for us????

[PILOST]

Obviously antibiase,you're missing my point.

You've now realised the power of solidarity & the clout it carries.So,why did you not exercise that right at the last MASEU AGM?You had the chance to vote your own people in,as the cabin crew have the majority vote,but that didn't happen.Apathy perhaps?I didn't suggest for the cabin crew to get out of MASEU,rather to stop & think what your inaction or actions have led you to this current situation & maybe a radical move to wake up the MASEU exco.

Please don't accuse the pilots of being foolhardy & flying with less than crew complement.You must differentiate between legal requirements & normal crew complement.As pilots,we're bounded by laws & company's SOP's.As the current law say's it's only required to carry 1 cabin crew per 50 pax & MAS's SOP's say it's ok to go if all doors are crewed then as professionals, we're legally able to depart.Again,this is where your union rep. is lacking in their industrial knowledge.

Remember CAP 371?It's a binding document adopted by DCA.But your union decided to forgo your rights & signed a CA which is at a disadvantage to you.For what greater purpose?That question can only be answered by you & your reps.

Again,what I've written here is just my humble opinion.As it is,my colleagues are suffering from a lack of representation from their unions.But we can't fight your battle.Your last paragraph sums it up rightly.If the cabin crew don't & will not exercise their rights when it's compromised then it's just a lost cause.

Food for thought antibiase.

Safe Flying.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
PILOST

[cabinscrews]

Hello! This is definately not right! The idea to raise the issues at hand was to get feedback and suggestions with regards to working conditions for cabin crew ~ not to start a sparring session between the teks and the cabs.

[antibiase]

Pilost,
Many a times, when a pilot comments about the conditions of the crew, it is always in the negative.
E.g.
When the pilots were only getting 24 hours in certain stations in Europe, many of them had the gall to suggest that the cabin crew reduce the rest periods to "assist the company".
Why is it when certain groups have a better conditions, others only feel envious?
Maybe you didn't realise this on why the cabin crew do not get the RM44.00 when operating KUL/MAA/KUL is due to some pilots complaining since they do not get so should the cabin crew.
Thank God, the pilot involved is not around anymore.
So you see, it is not good suggesting or making commnets in regards to the cabin crew's welfare as you do not know the whole story. The cabin crew are capable of taking care of themselves.
I just wish that the pilots would respect us in all our decisions, be it good or bad.
There are many pilots who consider the crew their "servants" on board the aircraft.
There are many who look disdainfully upon the crew and insist that we revere them as "Gods".
One good example, is the introduction to tech crew by cabin crew.
Why is it that when a cabin crew do not go into the cockpit to introduce themself the pilots get upset and sometimes have gone to great extents to show his displeasure by taking out on the rest of the crew?
Hellooooo, all he had to do is go down and intoduce himself to the crew then. Maybe that will create a positve impact on the crew and that crew will realise his/her shortcomings.
Working conditions of the cabin crew on board the aircraft is not the sole responsibility of the IFS but the commander of the flight.
When he realises that and tries to improve it, only then will the changes of improvement be possible.
We will respect any positive suggestions in how to improve our working conditions but bottomline...it shall be our choice and please respect us for it.
You keep saying that I should have done my part in the last election. I only have to say this, it is none of your buisness on what I do or what I don't do as you do not have any say in it.
How do you know that the crew did not vote for the cabin crew representatives standing for positions?
Could there have been "foul play" and the votes submitted were already "rigged" before it was delivered to MAA that day?
Do you know that there is still one cabin crew representative in the council?
Again, I would appreciate that you refrain from commneting on how we should looking after ourselves.
If you have any other positive suggestions to assist us in imnproving our working conditions then I suggest that you channel it to the Cabin Crew Area Committee.

[PILOST]

Again Antibiase,you have thrown yourself to the lions in this international forum.

When you put your arguments in your last post,it's obvious that you're just venting your frustration.I guess,you rightly or wrongly believe that all pilots are just a pain.Remember Antibiase,we all have to work together to make a flight work.As aptly as your handle suggest,you shouldn't prejudge people.Personally I don't & you shouldn't too.

Regretfully,I'm aware of the alleged 'rigged' ballots by your colleagues.Remember,I have friends who are cabin crew too.When I enquired why the membership do not take action.....all I got was a blank stare. :rolleyes:

Well of course your election was none of my business,but when you start to blame others in an international forum like this & accuse our fraternity as part of your problems,then rightly so I'm allowed to make a few comments.Again,read my post carefully before reacting.

Antibiase,I would like to repeat the reality.You form the bulk of the MASEU membership & yet you only have ONE,I repeat ONE cabin crew to represent you!Somethimg is wrong here.Even in our present government they equally divide the representation!You ask for attention to your problem & a solution,I'm just giving my opinion to the obvious.I definitely can't tell you what to do but like I said,I'm just giving my humble opinion.

However,I strongly believe now that you're from management planted here to solicit info from this forum.But to your dismay,what you uncovered here is a can of worms.....which you have no chance to cover it now!What a splendid idea Antibiase,.....make the pilots & cabin crew have a cockfight & watch in glee as you reap the rewards of a divided workforce.You're definitely afraid that if the aircrew unite,you might just be out of a job!

In any organization antibiase,you'll meet certain unsavoury characters.Why stop at tech crew?How about our Chairman who is conveniently bailed out?I can also quote some of your colleagues work ethics,but I do not stoop that low.Like I said,you'll meet these characters along the way & learn to be grateful that you're not as shallow as them.

I don't have any suggestion to your Cabin Crew Area Committee as they are impotent in their functions (like all committees in MAS). ;)

I humbly suggest to you Antibiase,to soak up & rechannel your negative pent up energy to fight the apathy in your working conditions.I believe with your zest & vigour like you've shown in this posting,you'll make a very good cabin crew rep. in your union.

Good Luck.
Safe Flying.
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PILOST




[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 22 January 2001).]

[antibiase]

Pilost,
Just for the record, I am not "management" as u may think. I could also say the same for u as u seem well bent on the crew forming their own association to the cabin crew's detriment.
I am not here to creat a 'void' as u may think but on the contrary, I am hear to voice my personal opinion in regards as to the work conditions as a cabin crew.
As u may now notice, I am quite passionate about my department and concern about the wrong-doings in the union as well.
However, while others may have the opinion that forming an association is the best solution to our problems, I am of the opinion that such recourse may be detrimental to the cabin crew.
Besides giving such suggestions, is there any other suggestions that u may have in our cause?
Would greatly appreciate it.
B.T.W, please forgive me if I may have offend u or anyone else in my earlier postings. It is just that many a times the comments from individuals, who are limited in their knowledge of our situation, have only fueled the negative preception of our predictament and therefore touched a raw nerve.
Again,looking forward to any positive suggestions u or anyone may have to lighten the burden of our predictament.