Cathay Girls

[gipilot]

Hey guys what's up?

Just started at Cx and was wondering about the cabin ladies working for us here.

Having flown with passengers and c/a's for years now in Europe I am kind of feeling things are a BIT(MASSIVELY) different here especially when it comes to the cabin attendants.

Not really getting the "CREW" feeling here, it's like you check in the evening and you introduce yourself and that's the only eye contact you'll get for the rest of the trip or layover, kind of feeling we're not on the same line/team or we(cockpit) don't even exist or something. Very little social relationship between Cockpit and C/A's.

Maybe I'm wrong and it's probably only me but just wondering IS it like that usually here at Cx?? Did something happen in the past that there is no kind of "CREW" feeling between the C/A's and the cockpit??

And of course probably it's a cultural thing and I shouldn't expect loads of fun and partying and drinks with the ladies on layovers,like other carriers in EU(or ME) but , DOES IT HAPPEN????????? What is GOING ON here man????? I'm going crazy with these gals man, they are not up for any crew fun mate. Did something happen in the past?? Or are they briefed during the course NOT to mingle with the Cockpit or something?? Or is it just me(probably is).

Would like some input on this matter, thanks mates.

p.s. PLease some serious input I know for 90% of you Cx is the WORST company in the world and the most horrible..... etc. etc. etc., but please just keep it about the gals, thank you guys.

[Fenwicksgirl]

In this respect, Cathay is good for marriages!!!!

[SMOC]

Nope nothing happened, thats just the way it is!

Can you say "Olympic Flame"

[water check]

hahahaha....some of these new guys just KILL me...!!! :}

[Loiter1]

Personally I notice a difference between the based girls (and boys) vs the Hong Kong crew. I put that down to culture. The fact they don't go out is probably in direct correlation to their abysmal T&Cs. Saving allowances can make a big impact on take home pay when you are starting on around 10000HKD! Thus the Olympic Flame title, ask someone when you go flying next.

[N1 Vibes]

Ahhh,

you just wanted somebody to be your friend. Sitting at the front of the plane makes you none the following:

- more attractive
- more important
- more popular

Once you've been in Hong kong just a little longer gipilot you'll realise that because of what you are/where you work will not make "gals" more likely to "catch your eye". Respect and friendship with people in HKG needs to be earned just like anywhere else in this world. Women were not put on this earth or CX a/c for that matter - to give you pleasant flattering conversation.

By the way what is "crew fun" - is this some sort of parlour game?

Regards,

N1 Vibes

PS - "Oh you have such a big wallet, yes I'd love to have a beer, oh, you're room key - how nice, is that a camera, I'm not that kind of girl, well just this once, is that a real 0.10 carat diamond, you shouldn't, marriage - of course, wanchai with your mates, of course I don't mind, who is that girl you were with, ah your sister, no she can sleep here as well......etc, etc."

PPS - Get a Life!

[ColdWar]

Repeat after me: I am utterly ignorant about cultural differences.

Repeat after me: I am totally clueless about socio-economics.

Repeat after me: I can't believe that I've exposed myself as a cultural dumbass, by postng this thought on a public forum.

Yes it is "just you".

If you really are after that "crew feeling", ask one of the male cabin attendants out to the pub (or maybe that's not really what you're after).

You sound like a real catch. I can't understand why the women aren't all over you.

Have a nice day.

CW

[mooney59]

''the guy is just asking are our girls a good bunch?'' as oppose to a Bad bunch?

Nothing wrong with the girls or guys.Have you checked for BO or dragon breath?

[mooney59]

Old Spice? Wow! that's from the 60's right?

[Jack57]

Constructive Cold War

T o s s e r

[cpdude]

gipilot, ask your crew up front. Don't ask the morons here!

This forum is not the place to search for a serious answer. Drunken bums live here!:}

[Hoofharted]

"Cold-War" "N1 Vibes", bit harsh boys. You wouldn't wear long sleeves to work would you? :E

[Apple Tree Yard]

of course, I would have to second the 'dumb-ass' comment. (remember, it's important to have a straight crease ironed down the length of the sleeve):ok:

[jonathon68]

Ok, I will stick my neck out on this one!

CX has definitely become a far less social airline among crew during my time.

Probably the biggest change was during 1995-1997 when cockpit ULH patterns were shortened to 4 days (so we could get more days off in HKG!!!!), while cabin crew remained in accordance with their contracts. The fact that you went outbound, and then returned with completely different cabin crew tend's to split crews apart. For cockpit crew the day of arrival is the only day to go out, while Cabin crew treat this as a day of rest, and go out the next day.

My more social trips have tended to be the longer ones when you all stay together as a crew, such as 5 or 6 day Jo'burg's, Amsterdam's, Adelaide's, Bahrain's, Penang's etc. These patterns are now ancient history!

However, things are now even more challanging for various reasons.

Our new cabin crew recruits are only paid $79 per hour, for a 100 hour month. This work load does not leave much enthusiasm for going out socialising with anyone on overnight stops! Also when the basic is only 8k, saving overnight allowances to cover living costs is even more important than before.

It is understandable that when staff are so poorly paid they tend to treat their employment as a short term job, rather than a long term career. Hence high levels of sickness, lots of resignations and low levels of motivation at work. This also affects how people fit into a crew.

CX Management have chosen to ignore the fact that it has been an employees market for jobs over the last few years in Hong Kong. They continue to cut back packages for staff, and struggle to fill classes for new cabin crew, by compromising on standards.

With HKG unemployment at 3.3%, and lots of jobs paying far better than CX, our new Cabin Crew recruits are either people who failed to get better jobs, or the minority who just really want to be Cabin crew (despite the pay, etc).

No doubt our longer serving pilots could make the same observation about newer generations of CX pilots, B scaler's, Freighter pilot's, etc. Basically CX get's what it pay's for.

The declining english language skills of our younger crew are an added issue. Current crew list demographics are typically for the bottom 2/3rds of the crew to be all cantonese speakers. Basically the aircraft effectively divides into two seperate operations with the cockpit and senior cabin crew being CX, and the back of the aeroplane becoming Mongkok Airlines.

In the outport these crew prefer to not "change channel" (speak english), so are reluctant to go out with non Cantonese speakers. Maybe if we all learned to speak cantonese we could overcome this!

Nothing is going to change with regard to the social situation, so just accept it. To socialise with cabin crew, it is probably better to latch on to other airline crews. This is definitely a better option, especially if you are married to CX cabin crew!

As a Captain, you have to try and build enough of a team to face the possible challanges of the trip. This is not easy when you only get 5 minutes or so on the crew bus, and half the crew are yakking away on mobile phones etc. You just have to put in the effort to make sure that all the senior crew are comfortable to call you when something goes wrong in the cabin.

[Jack57]

Good post J68.....

[slowto280]

Freighter pilots......... Oh my.......... at least it was capitalized.......

[N1 Vibes]

J28

to pick up on the "need to build enough of a team", if there isn't a feeling of same-team-same-dream and professionalism when you get on the bus, then there is something wrong with the selection/training/community within CX. If it came to a difficult situation on a plane, one would have hoped that the people selected through interview and selection process, for cabin/flight crew, have the carachteristics to be able to work together straight off the bat. If there is a need to 'bond' before the flight do you need to ask - is there a real problem here? And is it being communicated to cabin/flight crew management? Thoughts.

Regards,

N1 Vibes

[hongkongfooey]

CX has definitely become a far less social airline among crew during my time.

and from some of the comments above, 1/2 full of w@nkers too :ugh:

[CodyBlade]

''I also agree with Fac6 in that most of them will write you up any chance they get, it's disgusting.''

Why do you think that is so? as always there are two sides to a story.

[400 Jockey]

Cody yea really? What kind of deluded state are you in? Even Flight Ops get tired of the influx of reports but what can they do? ISD is a much bigger and more powerful dept.

I personally know the crew on the flight where they had a Jumpseat pax and First class had 2 occupants. The ISM cleared the guys to sit at the back of First and eat and watch a movie. It's true the ISM went to bed and they were told to move by the SP who then wrote them up.

I have other friends who suffered similar and even worse situations than that but if I went into detail it would give their identities away.

[CodyBlade]

as always, there are two sides to a story...

[grouter]

I love Cathay girls.

[flyr767]

yeah the other side of the story is that they're stuck up and conceited b to the i to the t to the c to the h to the e to the s. I mean how hard is it to say hello or just shoot the breeze? from what I read, the guy should be concerned that he's flying with a bunch of unsocialable hags... how can you be a team and work together if you can't even engage in some small talk?

[400 Jockey]

flyr

"unsociable hags"

Love it hehehe

You know recently I went for a stroll down the back because I wanted to stretch my legs. When I walked past the galley at L4 one of the girls looks at me and says.. "What are you doing here? Are you here to try and chat one of us up? I wanted to tell her to F*&K OFF but instead just smiled and said "I'm the Captain and I can go anywhere I want on my aircraft" She then replied "Well normally when you guys come down you want a girl" She then turned to her colleagues and continued to eat and yak in Cantonese.

Say's it all really!

[christep]

Fortunately, ISD seems to have got the message from pax as well that having just local HK girls isn't working and they've started recruiting around the region again for HK base. As one of the people who sees more of them than you up front, I'm certainly hoping that this will help bring back some of the old CX feel (it's only in the last 5 or 6 years that it's been going wrong).

[CodyBlade]

Was it the former COO's grand plan to have ''Same team,same dream''.Translation: All local crew [tech and cabin]
Back fired big time.See GMIS msg today quite sad actually.

[ColdWar]

I beg your indulgence for a brief digression:

Is it just me, and my paranoia (I try to avoid the word Alzheimer when referring to myself), or do some of you, also, have the feeling that certain of these threads are being "managed" (this one comes to mind) ?
Too often, postings just disappear into the ether, and after a day or two, it is pointless to re-submit, because the posting would be far removed from the item to which it related.

Now back to A scale, B scale, RA65, Cabin Crew socialization (none of which are the real problem - look in the other direction).

Back to another 10 years of hibernation.

CW

[flyr767]

400 Jockey, way to tell them how it is!! i think that was the best response to her ignorant question! that's real class right there!

[Max Reheat]

Guys...

Come on... you are starting to sound like mongrels.

J68 - excellent post.

Things have changed in this industry, the bean counters have taken their big cut out of the cake to pay for their bonus and guarantee their next step up the corporate ladder - and stuff the consequences, it'll be someone else's problem before it bites.

No truer is this than in ISD. The racist decided that, indeed, we would be a 'same team, same dream' company populated exclusively by local employees. He chose to do this not because of some deluded dream that they would be the best, but because it would save money in that holy grail of $2/ASK. In the process; however, he failed to consider the possible consequences (or he didn't care; because it would be someone else's problem by the time it bit) of declining standards in the Cabin, where it truly matters. The pax really don't care if we land 4500ft down the runway so long as it's smooth. They do care about the service in the cabin, particularly in First and Business.

Now back to the thread...
Just ask yourselves these few questions.

1. How often have you approached the immigration desk at dispatch and actively gone to introduce yourself to the crew? Or do you wait for them to come to you? They are told to introduce themselves to us, but we never take the initiative! How intimidating must it be for a 22 year old chinese girl to come over and introduce herself to a 50 year old 400 captain.
2 How often does the Captain actually make his 'Bus Speech" involving for the crew? Does he re-introduce the pilots and project his voice to the back of the bus or does he just mumble to the ISM. For those who do just mumble, I can tell you, it is NOT very impressive to the junior crew down the back.
3. We've all got bad memories, who prints off a crew list before the flight and makes a note of the ISM, SP and FPs names. Particularly the ones who will be serving the flight deck. It's called CRM - Courtesy, Respect and Manners.
4. How many of us loiter in the galley, having not learnt their names in the hope that we will be recognized and served.
5. How many of us demand to be fed at the height of the meal service. Never forget, the crew are there to serve the Pax... we come second! Even if we're hungry. Because it's the Pax who pay all our salaries.
6. How many of us take rest in the cabin (and I'm pretty sure we're not permitted to do so in First) and leave the seat area looking like a pigsty? Do you re-plump the pillow and fold the blanket or do you leave the seat half reclined, the blanket in a mess on the floor and the pillow all crumpled. Because someone has to tidy it up to keep the appearance that is required in First and Business. If you want a maid on board then buy your helper a ticket and take her with you.
7. Why on earth would any of us want to eat in the cabin? The time taken eating soaks uo 30 minutes of an otherwise boring watch duty! Put yourself in the shoes of the adjacent First or Business class passenger who has paid $40-70,000 to get to LHR. You would not want someone sitting next to you, eating and disturbing the tranquility of the environment. For the poster who had the SP countermand the permission of the ISM.... If a pax complains - it is the SP who will get it in the neck from CX not the ISM because it is her cabin. Besides, we are not permitted to eat in First.
8. How many of us get stroppy if we are told there is no caviar? It is there for the pax, not us! On the other hand, treat the girls nicely from the start and the world will be your oyster.
9. For the longer serving readers... how many of you invited the girls out as a crew, drank yourselves to oblivion, whilst they drank Coke or OJ and then split the bill? Hardly chivalrous is it.

Gentlemen, this list is endless. But to go on would get boring.

We, as an employee group with CX do not cover ourselves in glory in the eyes of our non-pilot colleagues.
When it comes to dealing with the cabin crew, they just want us to be pleasant, perhaps learn their name.
Be patient, they may be dealing with one of the CUSTOMERS.
She may be tired, they get on average half the rest we do.
They have to deal with some pretty low life organisms out there and might just be looking for an unwitting victim on whom to vent their anger... go on punk make their day!

400 Jockey and your ilk.... shame on you. If you really are a Captain, then you should take the time to find out what goes on behind the flight deck door... Oh, I forgot. On the -400, there is just a void on the other side of that door.... unless you want something...... NOW!!!!

Max... out....

[Capitalism]

400 Jockey-

You really hit the nail on the head. Small-talk is pointless as far as women go. They subvert any hint of attention or passive conversation into a possibility that the guy they're talking to might actually be trying to get into their skirt. Heh. And while thats probably true most of the time, it's not like men try and hide it in the workplace. That would be stupid, what's the point? The problem with women in [general] in the workplace is that they don't want to be treated like equals, they want to be treated like women. They merely want to be paid equally in the workplace thus the hostility, resentment and writeups which probably are one of only a handful of things that justify and bolster their presence to begin with. So if dating co-workers is your thing, good luck. It's a lose-lose situation for you, and at a princely $79 an hour (hahahaha...sorry) c/a's obviously have a lot less to lose than you!

-C...

[CXtreme]

What I know about the CX girls is that in my time here their union has showed bigger balls then us.

Here we are discussing how big a smile we are entitled to while the company is chipping away on our contract.

At least the F.A.U can get their members to march in protest (at least 3 times I can recall in my time here) while we cannot even fill out an online survey from the HKAOA.

Good post Max Reheat, but like you say it is just common decency and manners.
Giflyer have you tried to Google Dr. Phil if you’re that desperate we have bigger things to worry about, and I am not talking about the fuel price.

[geh065]

Face it, would YOU go out with one of us if you were a cabin crew? I certainly wouldn't.

[Max Reheat]

ge065,

One or two of them have done!

The expat cabin crew, who, by and large are now very senior, are completely unrepresentative of the 'new generation'.

They are well educated and are in for as much of a good time as the rest of us. Unfortunately the inconsiderate approach of an ill mannered minority of us is tainting the barrel.

Next time you fly with a Singaporean, Malaysian or Indian SP try to engage her in a little conversation... (not during the meal service!)... find out what makes them tick. Remembering her name would be good start.

Next time you are on a rest period, or are just coming out of the loo, if the meal service is underway just stand by the flight deck door and watch. The cabin crew work their socks off.

Next time you are a pax on a 744, whilst staying out of the way, stand by door 2R and watch how much behind the scenes activity is going on. Then remember that they get HALF the rest we do.

How many of you know that the cabin crew get assessed (by their own version of ERAS) every... yes EVERY... flight. The problem is that the reporting officer is anonymous. There is reverse reporting too. They are encouraged to report against their seniors (at times that may include the cockpit crew). It is hardly conducive to a harmonious working environment.

The established number of cabin crew is being cut all the time in the pursuit of that 'holy grail.' In 1996 we carried 19 cabin crew on the 744, now we carry 17. The service is being constantly upgraded and changed. Occasionally, an ISM will have her own idea of how it should be done; which just might be in complete contravention of the manuals. Then her crew will fear for the write up they are going to get at the end of the flight. The section leader can grade and report at will, safe in the knowledge that it will be unattributable.

You would be astonished at the racism which is endemic within ISD. There is one (very, very large) group who get all the choice trips. Their countrymen are favoured in reports. 'Foreigners' are marked down. They know it happens but can do nothing about it because of the anonymity.

Just as the vast majority of the posts on this forum are submitted by the disgruntled few; so the cabin crew are put off us as a group by those that do not represent us well.

gipilot, I believe you asked the original question in all sincerity and innocence. You may just have opened a real can of worms; and the only people will come out of it badly is the pilots because of a 'pig-headed' lack of understanding and an unwillingness to do their part in fostering some goodwill.

It is up to us. We are the leaders, we are the commanders, we set the example.

[Numero Crunchero]

Max reheat,
well said!

[Yeager]

There is very, very little action goin on here, mate. If you are out of a "real" airline and not this Mickey Mouse one - particular if you are out of one of the European outfits - you will never ever see anything like that in CX - thats a FACT!

Sure you can get one of the girls out if you really wanna make the effort - not that hard - but at the end of the day - you gotta ask you self if its worth it!

Just like Cathay itself - the girls her dont think particular high of you, anyways - all set up by CX - thats the way they want it to be.

Welcome to "The Company" - hope you won't regret it mate! :D

[ColdWar]

400, 767, Capitalism, and anyone else of similar view (I know I've overlooked some)

A perfectly innocent question:

If the Cabin Crew, generally, are a miserable lot, and just look for opportunities to "write us up", how do you explain the preponderance of Flight Crew who have absolutely no problem with Cabin Crew?

Just asking.

CW

[hongkongfooey]

400 jock, no argument, have seen it first hand from the back.
I was referring to the treatment of GIpilot's post ( not by your good self ), way to make a new guy welcome :ok:

[asianeagle]

Dump the male flight attendants. No one wanted them in the first place.:eek:

Replace all the female flight attendants with good-looking strippers! What the hell -- they don't even serve decent food anymore, so what's the loss?:ok:

The strippers would at least triple the alcohol sales and get a 'party atmosphere' going in the cabin. And, of course, every businessman in Hong Kong would start flying again, hoping to see naked women.:D

Because of the tips, female flight attendants wouldn't need a salary, thus saving even more money. I suspect tips would be so good that we could charge the women for working the plane and have them kick back 20% of the tips, including lap dances and 'special services.:cool:

Muslims would be afraid to get on the planes for fear of seeing naked women. Hijackings would come to a screeching halt, and the airline industry would see record revenues.

This is definitely a win-win situation if we handle it right -- a golden opportunity to turn a liability into an asset.

Watcha fink Tony?:}

[Buttie Box]

I like the way this guy thinks! Hey, why not issue Mile High Points instead of Air Miles, dependant on how much you spend?

But haven't Hooters already tried something like this in the States?

BB

[asianeagle]

But haven't Hooters already tried something like this in the States?

If thats the one where mother, daughter and grand daughter were all cabin crew on the same flight, I am not surprised it failed!!!:eek:

[Hellenic aviator]

I have to admit, my experience is 'hit-or-miss'. Some flights they've (cabin crews) been awesome, other flights, we could've been dead on the flightdeck and nobody would've known...

I've had similar experiences like 400 Jockey, where I've been 'assumed' of trying to chat up one of the girls when all along I'm just 'stretching my legs'. I've wanted to say "Please, don't flatter yourselves" but apparently that's not taken well....but asking me if I am looking to chat a girl and that all we want to do is try and get into their pants, is ?

I keep things on a professional level and am always polite because there's absolutely no excuse to be rude, ever. If they want to carry on like peasants, that's their prerogative :hmm:

[missingblade]

To Gipilot:

If you learn a bit of Cantonese and have the ability to do a bit of slapstick (watch the Chinese movie channels for hints) you will be an absolute hit with the (local) girls and will become famous as one of only a select few gweilos who make the effort to relate to the crew on their level - and you will definitely get a few dates out of it. Many of them are shy so its up to you. And don't let the ISM see.:ok:

[willnotcomply]

What a sad f@#king bunch. Really!!

[Max Reheat]

Fac6,

We've all had episodes where the other side have been let down by a few of their 'bad apples.' We all need to generate our own little libraries of sharp 'one-liners' to respond to our subordinate crew members who fail to act in the spirit of CRM. I would not hesitate in putting an ISM in her place if the situation warranted. It's all about Command!

The point I was trying to make is that we should not generalize, particularly when some of our colleagues fail to act like gentlemen. I know that may be difficult for some but I still believe that most of us were brought up properly and that we shouldn't let our standards slip.

If you are making an effort... good on you. Keep plugging away. Only if we demonstrate that new generation of Captain really is different and really is making an effort, then things will slowly change. It won't happen overnight (or even on an overnight - giPilot) but its a start.

I reiterate...
We are the leaders, we are the commanders, we set the example.

[GE90115BL2]

I agree with all the above.

About 13 years ago I arrived into AKL on 107 and asked the ISM if the crew wanted to meet for lunch? Her reply was "don't bother my crew, they are tired and wont go out"
About 30 mins later the ISM and about 6 crew passed me in the Lobby on the way out for lunch.........................

I've never forgotten that.

However I have had some REALLY good trips to CMB and BAH with our girls lately. Just when you give up being nice they do something you'd never expect.

The key to getting good service on the flight and on the overnight ( he he ) rests with the ISM and how you get along with her.

[Harbour Dweller]

Max,

Agree with a lot of what you said however..

6. How many of us take rest in the cabin (and I'm pretty sure we're not permitted to do so in First)

A330/B777 Crews take rest here when there is a spare First Class seat. Part of CX Pilots entitlements.

Why on earth would any of us want to eat in the cabin? The time taken eating soaks uo 30 minutes of an otherwise boring watch duty! Put yourself in the shoes of the adjacent First or Business class passenger who has paid $40-70,000 to get to LHR. You would not want someone sitting next to you, eating and disturbing the tranquility of the environment. For the poster who had the SP countermand the permission of the ISM.... If a pax complains - it is the SP who will get it in the neck from CX not the ISM because it is her cabin. Besides, we are not permitted to eat in First.

Again for A330/B777 crew, pilot award conditions allow us to eat our meals in First Class if another passenger is eating or not sleeping. Some Cabin Crew will try and argue this with you however it is written in their service manuals that Pilots are permitted to rest and eat in First Class.

When you show them this information in their manuals the look on their face is priceless...

As always we should all treat each other with respect. However some make it harder than others.

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Sounds like some of the pilots at Cathay would be much happier at Emirates.

cliff
KYIP
PS-My app is in at Cathay, because of the US basing-cargo only.

[Max Reheat]

H. Dweller,

I totally agree with you on both your points. Indeed we are allowed to use First class on overnight flights if a seat is available. On one particular fleet, though, which has bunks and a CCL seat some guys are abusing the 330/777 privilege.

It's just that some of the guys have a strange way of trying to get something from the cabin crew.

A little story I was told recently from a very reliable CC source.

A -400 flight from Jo'burg....
The relief cmdr asked the ISM if he could sit and rest in first class. The response was yes; however, please don't eat since the Pax are sleeping. As soon as he took his seat he asked the SP for his meal, despite the wishes of the ISM. When the SP refused he jumped up, threw the headset on the seat and stormed back up stairs. Whilst doing so told the crew not to come to the flt deck for the rest of the flight... so they didn't.
His name is now very well known throughout ISD and he will probably get cr@p service for the rest of his time in CX.
I've retold the story verbatim, how much got embellished on the way I don't know. The point is; the incident happened, he didn't get reported, but it sours the pitch for everyone else.

It works both ways. The Asian airlines are very different from those back home, where ever that may be. We are the incomers and it is our responsibility to fit in and act accordingly; whilst never forgetting that we at the top of the crew list.

Banter is one thing, rudeness is intolerable. If you are a Captain, don't accept it from any one on your crew; neither pilot nor cabin crew. The rude ISMs are equally disliked by the junior crew. Just as the rude Captains are by the junior pilots. It is just unacceptable and if you see it happening, stamp on it with all the authority the 4 bars give you! Let them report you, just make sure you cover your 6 and tell your chief pilot before ISD do. It's very simple.

On the other hand, I see command trainees get the cabin crew eating out of their hand even before departure. So it's clearly not impossible. It called CRM... courtesy, respect and manners.

Lead, command, example etc etc.

[400 Jockey]

fac6

Couldn't agree more old mate :)

Max, is your other half cabin crew by any chance? You seem to be very pro cabin crew despite the fact it's common knowledge they lack CRM.

Here's another story for you...

I'm sitting in First as an ID Pax, beside me is a Captains wife also ID traveling who asks very politely for some red wine. The cabin crew tells her "You have to wait until we open the bottle for a revenue passenger before we open it for you." I was completely ignored and when I asked for a coffee she sighed and walked off whilst bringing it some 15 minutes later (No there was no meal service at the time.) What did I do wrong then?

I think it better to not go into how the cabin crew treat cockpit as ID Pax

[Old Fella]

To those who have difficulty with the CX Cabin Crews, maybe you should take a long hard look at yourselves. In my time in HK I never once had a problem, treated them as I would want my own to be treated, and had a great time.

It might be worth thinking about that the people in the cabin they have to deal with range from absolute slobs to those with over-inflated opinions of themselves and many who are just downright rude. Because they are Asians does not make them any less an asset to CX than anyone at the sharp end.

Maybe things have changed a lot in CX, but my memories of being part of the outfit are all good ones. :ok:

[PanZa-Lead]

Fac6
I agree with you. Every pilot I have flown with are courtious to the cabin crew and yet they are mostly unfriendly in return.

Max reheat
You go on about this 'new generation' of captains etc..what aload of rubbish. I have been in CX along time and I can tell you CX was alot more fun and relaxed with the cabin crew before the 'new generation' of captain came. You speak to the older ISMs and they ALL talk about the good old days in CX and complain about the new captains.

It has NOTHING to do about old and new captains. The cabin crew are now dicouraged to associate with the cockpit crew as in the past no one cared and was even encouraged by the ISMs. Because recruiting now is PC driven anyone that can barely speak two words of english is recruited. In the past recruitment was very selective and they only took those with excellent english and social skills....hence more girls from other nations and less locals. This leads to alot of the cabin crew shy to talk to you in your mother tongue. ...... therefore they would rather not and this is misunderstood as being unfriendly.

As for fluffing the pillow..get real

As for asking for your crew meal.....how long does it take to bring in to crappy. badly presented meals when the pilots are hungry...gee 2 minutes....get real

and yes..max reheat I do let my crew read newspapers in the cockpit...naughty me .. but then again I am an old generation captain.

[GlueBall]

Universal, easily understood rule is: Don't sh!t where you work. :ooh:

[adamk]

So much negative on CX cabin crews....

Anyway, my sister is a CX cabin crew, and she's pretty friendly (not in those kind of way!).. but if you talk to her, i am sure she'll talk back! :ok:

or in my case,, talks too much for me:E

[Loiter1]

I haven't always been a pilot and have worked in various industries. Some with people that make the MFL's of the world look like an angels (yes I am on the 400) In every job I've had I have had to deal with absolute aholes, some really good people and alot in between. You have a simple choice. Take the easy road, lock yourself in the cockpit and believe that the cabin crew are a bunch of subhuman pr..ks that must be tolerated at best. Take the high road, make an effort, tolerate the rude few and maybe, just maybe make a difference. Am I saying they are right and we are wrong, no. I've spent 6hours getting teas when I asked for coffees. I've had a rude reply when trying to make polite conversation waiting for the bus...the list goes on. But I've also had girls going out of their way to make a trip more comfortable when I'm PXing, gone out of their way to remember my name...you get the idea. It's too easy to take the low road guys, don't let the disgruntled few drag you down. Now off my high horse.

[mooney59]

Quote:''saw the ISM walking across the lobby with 6 crew going for dinner''

One of our girls told me one of the reasons they are reluctant to go for dinner with the CC is the enormous 'drink' bill that is chalked up at dinner outport.'' I only ate a cheese + tomato sandwich and milk why should I...''

Some of them live a very frugal exsistent due to family/personal circumstances.

[Jack57]

"The C asked the crew (shouted) to his birthday b/fast at outport. Once the pigs had eaten something was said in Cantonese, they all got up and left without a thankyou"

You can only try so hard

After that they are just A***holes

Plain and simple

[2 cents]

Worked Christmas day a few years ago, and spent some time putting together some small gifts and my wife wrote some cards with every crew's name. I put the silly hat on and handed them all out individually wishing everyone a good holiday.

Now of course I didn't do any of this for recognition, but have a guess how many of them came up at some other point to say thanks? That's right, ZERO. In fact after our post flt duties, I walked out of the cockpit to find they were all gone, without even saying goodbye to us! Unbelievable.

I still try to take "the high road" as I won't let some ruin it for all. But it is disappointing to see how pathetic it is some times. Even 10 years ago things were MUCH, MUCH better, and we used to have some great trips back then.

[cpdude]

The based CC are 95% fabulous! The HKG based Chinese CC are mostly (as referred to earlier) represent MongKok airlines and have little or no personality. The rest of the Asian CC based in HKG are mostly OK, friendly and helpful but only 10-20% of them would meet the levels of camaraderie shown by the overseas based crews.

So, the HKG CC are unhappy with based CC. I say jealousy is the reason and attaining a personality is the answer!:ok:

[bus_aviator]

you've got some serious issues...i think someone's bit the bone once or twice

cheers

[Max Reheat]

cpdude,

Your comments are all fine; however, how would you feel if KJP and NR decided....

'To hell with the lot of them - we are recruiting direct to the base including DE capts on the pax fleet!'

I think you'd be amongst the first to squirm.....

The CC based in HJG are no different. Personality or not, they don't deserve this.

[cpdude]

Max Reheat

You are correct...I would squirm as would others and we just may do that sooner than later with the hiring of KA and OA crews. Essentially Direct Entry Captains are coming and no Bypass Pay will be paid for those normally eligible when delayed for a Command.

But, there is a difference when it comes to the make-up of the CC system. Based CC CANNOT elect to move outside of their base area! Their seniority is held within the base area and so CX has again created a division among the crews. But this is not all CX's fault as the based CC are locally hired and must have the legal right of abode which eliminates most of the HKG CC from applying.

But my comments earlier were to identify the differences of the crews with regards to camaraderie which has more to do with upbringing then citizenship.;)

[Max Reheat]

cpdude,

You miss the point.

HKG based crew are unhappy with the based crew system (and perhaps the individuals themselves) because for every ISM promoted on the bases, there is one less slot available in HKG. There is still only a finite number of flights to be crewed. For them, the right of abode overseas is beside the point.

I'm sure you are aware that our most senior SPs have been in the company for in excess of 22 years now, and there is still no immediate light on the horizon for them because of all these based crew being promoted outside of the established seniority system.

Again (and you are correct) it is another case of the company riding roughshod over the established contracts of it's most senior and loyal employees.

The day will come... but until then, all we can do is...

Lead, command and set the example.

[N1 Vibes]

2 cents

just to highlight a piece of chinese culture. Generally the chinese like to be able to respond with a gift when given something, even if it is a small gift from them. In western culture we are quite delighted to be given something unexpected, for many chinese there can actually be a small embarassment/loss of face that they haven't something to give you in return. This is not something that has developed in todays society/cabin-crew but has been part of the culture for centuries.

Think about when you go for a few beers with your friends, you always feel a awkward if one person is buying all the beers, in polite western society you always like to buy a beer in return.

J57 and others

generalizations might be good when talking about cattle, but when talking about individuals/people, remember there are many individuals amongst the cabin crew that make things great and some that make things bad. Specific examples of a-holes is better that whitewashing the community with the same moniker. And please do not suggest that cc are told that all flt crew are bad, just look at what you are saying about them here - it's the same right - you telling other pilots the cc are bad?

Hoping that the school teacher comes out to ring the bell soon so that playtime comes to an end!

Regards,

N1 Vibes

[Fac6]

N1...

Unfortunately most of the CC DO share the same mentality, therefore I feel it fair to generalize here.

Only the minority have great CRM, professionalism, social skills etc.

[simplex]

pretty much the same as the pilots then

[coded_messages]

Simplex, ask yourself why?

400 Jock, fac6, Panza and Jack I agree with you all.

I find them all rude and moody and if you say anything non-standard to them they assume you're chatting them up.

Last year I was on a flight with a real nice Skipper, he invited all the girls out for dinner (he offered to pay.) It wasn't min rest, was a short flight and the restaurant was basically in front of the hotel so no excuses about needing sleep, too far etc. The ISM said thanks but no thanks they were off to bed etc.

I go to this place with the Captain then about 15 minutes who walks in with about 10 of the Cabin Crew? The ISM!

I know they have no obligation at all to eat with us etc. but that was rude.

All this boll*x about girls being lumbered with high bar bills etc is a load of sh*t too.

I have also been treated like **** many times on staff travel so now I just don't do it. Much prefer ID on other airlines. Yes it's more expensive but worth it for not being treated like rubbish. Maybe that's something you guys should consider

[Busbert]

I say bring back the 'Asian - Other' cabin crew.
(i.e Korean, Japanese, Filipina, Sri Lankan, Thai, Indian, Malaysian and, dare I say, Singaporean girls).

In my experience:
The 'selfish gene' is very strong in Hong Kong.
Hong Kong girls reach an adult level of maturity at about 40.
These are two aspects that put the more diverse crew of say 15 years ago at a strong advantage - they acted grown up and had a sense of fun and a wider life experience that the canto-mall-girls than we seem to draw today.

I often wonder what would happen if we had a *real* in-flight emergency. I somehow imagine that we would find half the CC huddled together crying in the aft galley.


I understand that CX are starting the spread the net wider again, which is a good thing.
BTW the London based crews are a legend. It is apparent when you step on the aircraft that you are dealing with a different mindset.

[armchairpilot94116]

(dont taze me because I am not a pilot, just was married to a Taiwanese CX cabin crew member)

My then wife never had a bad word to say about any of the FD crew she worked with. She did have tons to say about other cabin crew though. She went from trainee to Senior Purser in 7 years. She loved her job way too much. But I did get the feel from her that there is the CAbin Crew and then there is the Flight Deck crew. The Captain was always the person of authority and therefore not someone to go out with (it would be like an extension of work) . They would rather hang out with other cabin crew and seem to follow the lead of the Chief Purser, who is really "their" leader. Walking around in HK with her , if she spotted a Chief Purser she would always go up and talk with him/her. But never a pilot.

Oh and I used to fly often TPE/HK in First Class on a ten pct ticket. And I was warned by her that the cabin crew would know I am not a real First Class passenger so I must behave myself accordingly. And actually I guess maybe they knew my wife was an SP because I was always treated with smiles and always got fantastic service!!

p.s. we are talking late 80s here by the way.

I guess CX is a difficult place to work nowadays. But its always been my Fav Airline (along with SQ....sorry)

[Kitsune]

Busbert that's a disgraceful thing to say! I suggest you go to FSD and read the report on the HKG-FRA uncontained engine fire out of Kai Tak before casting aspersions on the cabin crews professionalism in an emergency..... :rolleyes:

[No-Wai]

Kitsune - valid point, but have you also read the report on the A340 wheel fire incident in the latest safety mag?

That and other incidents I have experienced first hand make me lean more towards Busbert's way of thinking. :eek:

[willnotcomply]

That was 13 years ago, Cabin crew diversity was far greater, attitude more service orientated. The Canto influence far less prevalent. Keep in mind, "Gen Y" were not in the workforce at that time. Gen Y have a completely different set of rules and expectations, irrespective of cultural influence. That said, peanuts and monkeys might have something to do with the problem.

[Kitsune]

Surely Busbert gets paid more than peanuts......?? :}

[Busbert]

Surely Busbert gets paid more than peanuts......?? :}

Yeah they throw me the occasional fish head if I am really good. :ok:

[maugrim]

Some moot points there. I know a couple of CX FS's who have left university for a year, work with CX, see the world for free, gain some experience and then go back to uni.

[Max Reheat]

Another quick post before this finally gets 'put-to-bed.'

Way back on page 1 item 3 of this thread Fenwicksgirl stated that the crew relationship is good for marriages.
Well, Ms FG, I feel, from first hand experience, that the lack of interaction has precisely the opposite effect on marriages. Because our spoilt, pampered wives get too comfortable and forget that their primary role in life is to keep the family together and in the process lose sight of the fact that the best way to do this is to keep the 'old man' happy!!!
Sorry, but being on one side of a broken marriage for exactly this reason has tainted my view of Gweipos and I shall never change my mind since it cost me everything I had worked 20 years for.
The relationship between the cabin crew and pilots has taken a steep slide in the past decade for many reasons which have been eloquently outlined here by the folks willing to post sensible responses to the initial question.
It will only improve when the pilots take the initiative. It can be done... trust me.
Lead, command, set the example.

[armchairpilot94116]

Not saying most pilots are thinking of such a thing but using cabin crew as a cheap date wouldnt be the thing to do.

A lot of the CX juniors are early twenties and not likely to be too interested in 45 plus year old FO or Captains in a romantic capacity? Not to mention that most likely these men are already married. Your younger First Officers though may get more interest from the ladies I would imagine? SPs who are older then the juniors most likely already have someone in their lives already.

Good CRM between flight deck and the cabin crew is obviously desired for a good flight and for safety reasons. I am sure some airlines have this worked out better then others for whatever reasons.

Not really surprising if the CAbin Crew feel that the Chief Pursor / ISM is more their boss as he/she calls the shots in their work space. Although their very lives depend on the flight deck crew. And they should remember this I think.

Things must have gone downhill since 1980 to 1990 when my lady was flying as a stewardess.

[rick.shaw]

Many generalisations here, but alas, most are true about the HKG cabin crew. Some months ago I overheard some very junior crew make some very offensive comments about one of the FO's on the crew behind his back. I can understand Cantonese fairly well, although speaking it I find difficult. When I approached the persons involved, with the backing of the Malaysian ISM, they were genuinely shocked that I had understood and proceeded to apologise to the bewildered FO. Afterwards, they were giggling and laughing as if nothing had happened.

To me, this is just typical of the standard of the junior crew. Maybe CX has finally woken up to the fact, hence the move to increase recruiting from other than Hong Kong.

I go out of my way to try and foster good relations with any crew I fly with. Unfortunately, the cliquey bunch of immature newbies that have been hired over the last few years make that very difficult. No wonder CX service standards have fallen well behind our competitors over the last few years. They purely see it as a job that gives them cheap travel. They don't see it as a career.

[Captain Dart]

In the late eighties and early nineties, Cathay Pacific was not just was proud of, but advertised the fact that its cabin crew came from (then) 'ten different Asian lands'. We were Asia's airline, not Mong Kok Airways as we are today.

[gipilot]

Guys,

What can I say. I am totally flabbergasted. Actually my intention was just to get a few answers on what I thought were minor stuff. Little did I know I was opening a massive can of worms.

Well you can kind of know and feel that it IS a major issue in the mind of many pilots but it's like a topic many guys want to avoid up front(in the deck), I guess to avoid making remarks that might be offensive(thank God fo Pprune).

I am pretty much new in Cx so am just trying to find my way through the company. In general I still have a pretty positive view of the company, hopes it stays this way, except of course the cabin situation. In general it's allright but from what I see and have experienced these months it's a COMPLETELY odd atmosphere in which 2 teams collide massively.

I DID do all what the other guys suggested me to do like go and introduce myself , even help some of them with their heavy stuff be as pollite as I can during the flight, try to learn and speak some words be patient while they are working but....... I don't mean to be a pain but it just is different(not to call it FU#$ED UP). Not saying thank you for certain things or even not saying hello seems to be a common thing around these gals. Got a little pissed the other day when I met a bunch of the members of my flight in the elevator and they came in looked at me in the face and just didn't say nothing, I JUST FLEW WITH YOU GUYS FOR 12 HOURS you B@^&HES and introduced myself , I mean what is wrong with these people????? I am SURE that it ain't Chinese culture cause outside of Cx it's COMPLETELY different.

For the guys who have criticized me about my complaints ,well mates I don't recall talking about cabin crew that HAVE to be with the cockpit because of our wallets(N1 vibes) or that being a pilot HAS to impress them or that I wish to SHAG them all(they are by far not the hottest chicks), or EVEN me BEING an expert in SOCIO F%#$@*ING economics(ColdWAR). I'm just a simple pilot that tries to get a long with the whole CREW and am just amazed by the major efforts of the cabin to NOT to and to preferably keep the boys upfront as much away from them as possible.

All of this kind of hurts when you speak to guys or see other companies' crew members and the way most of them get along with each other. I kind of getting the feeling here is definitely the complete opposite of EU/US carriers in the cabin/cockpit aspect.

Ooh well I guess I kind of have to live with it I guess. There are more positive stuff about this job anyway, FOR ME, FOR ME(before some of you negative idiots criticize my positive view of CX). Just hope some of this changes ,of course it does not have to be a "EMIRATES"(The IBIZA of aviation) but hope at least some social aspects of the gals in the back improve.

Cheers

[ACMS]

Yes it is a bit hit or miss with the crew. As I said before the way the crew get along with us is totally up to the ISM. Generally the crew take their lead from the ISM. If we are flying with a local ISM then basically forget any after hours fun with the crew.

"leave my crew alone, they are tooo tired" blah blah blah.

And don't give me the standard answer "they can't afford to buy drinks for us" .........because most guys will shout them.

p.s. the Japanese girls sure do like a beer :ok:

Still, maybe It's better for my marriage in the long run!! and wallet:)

[ACMS]

Since MR P.C. left we now recruit from all around Asia again.:ok:

[armchairpilot94116]

Living away from Asia for ten years now meant I havent set foot on a CX flight in these ten years. But judging from what you guys are saying, seems CX really is just a shadow of its previous self? I used to fly CX a whole lot and it was neck to neck with SQ my two fav airlines (and I travelled alot for my work then and flew all sorts of airlines). My GF (later wife) who was a CX cabin crew had never mentioned anything about this cockpit versus cabin crew war ever! And she used to jump seat back to TAipei often on her days off. I used to ride the crewbus with her even (she would ask the Captain if it was ok, and yes its the CAptain to ask and not the FO or the FE or the Chief). I never got the impression from her that there ever was a problem such as you guys are talking about. And I dont think the girls were heavily HK girls then either. I guess the airline really is aptly named as suggested here "Mongkok Airways".

Would things have been different if the FD crew were HK-nese too?

I would agree that things will improve if they go back to employing girls from all the Asian nations CX flies too again.

However, although you guys on the FD get peeved, I really dont think its a surprise that the cabin crew (who are mostly ladies) will flock around their mother hen (the ISM) rather then the FD (who are mostly men and dont do the same duties they do). Sure the CAptain is CAptain of his ship but you guys are never going to be part of the swabbies in a big way. Get over it :} The ISM is the Chief swabbie. YOu guys are the bridge. Maybe you should make friends with your dreaded Freighter pilot buds? :}

Hey its your office and you guys live the life. I am just walking freight. What do I know. But this thread certainly is interesting none-the-less.

Thanks for reading my one cent (less then two cents) worth.

[Left Wing]

flying J class as a full fare pax, in jeans and shirt happened to have my flt bag with me........when the MongKok girl forgot to take my drinks order i asked why no drinks for me ??? the key reason given to me ...wah ! mistaa you have pilot bag..you cannot drink wha !.....:ugh::mad::{

[ACMS]

I hope you politely corrected her mistake?

[DonLeslie]

For a pilot working for a major european airline with, thank God, quite good CRM, it's very interesting to read how things work elsewhere in the world. I am, however, quite astounded by the things I read in this threat and I can hardly believe it. We, too, have chinese CC on our routes to China and HK who are generally very friendly and not rude at all. Some could improve their English a bit, but other than that, everything 's fine.

...All of the girls who had ignored us didn't even smile and just sat on their mobile phones chatting. Utter rudeness. :ugh:Now I do realize that things are different at different outfits, but maybe one of you CX guys could explain to me: why do you tolerate such behaviour? In my company any captain worthy of his bars would have kicked their *sses off the bus and called in standbys.

I also had to make 2 calls to the back at some point, none of them understood my basic english and in the end I gave up and called the ISM and got her to do what I was requesting! She then came up to the flight deck and said this is a huge problem she is facing with them not understanding basic english.Again, they would have been relieved from duty and placed in coach for the rest of the flight.

Cheers,
DL

[rick.shaw]

Don. I'm afraid I am unable to refute any of the stories told above. I can relate to and have experienced each and every situation I have read so far.

The 'CC on the mobile on the crew bus out to the aircraft while being briefed' is an age old chestnut. Thankfully, most of us are clamping down on that now. It does, however, typify the lack of respect from the junior crew - unfortunately, especially/mostly the HKG CC.

As far as kicking them off - that would really cause a stir in CX. With the punitive culture that is prevalent, the Capt would not come out very well. Additionally, the CC culture is also very punitive and there is a 'report anyone' mentality. And along with that goes a certain fear of kicking ass in case that very junior crew decides to report his/her head purser for any transgression. If there is one thing CX is good at, instilling a fear culture is it!

[Hellenic aviator]

Hmm.....Our former Chief Pilot kicked off the bus 2 girls that were yapping on their mobile phones. Despite them apologising immediately, he stood his ground, offloaded the girls and made an example of them. Nothing was said or done.

If the girls are rude enough to disrespect the Capt., then they deserve to be offloaded. If they're pissed off at their pathetic pay and conditions, they have two choices; (1) Harden the fcuk up, or (2) Express their displeasement with their Personnel Manager and Union. It's about time they grow up and act as adults and not as spoilt bimbos. There is no excuse acceptable to disrespect any fellow crew member, starting from the Capt. to the most junior crew member.
:mad: 'em !

[1200firm]

A few years ago I was PX/DT'ing (whatever they call it this week) to BKK.A few weeks after this I received a letter stating that as an ID90 passenger I had accepted an amenities kit & would I care to explain myself.(This was in the days when you had to decline a kit if offered.) I replied that I accepted no amenities kit & that I was on duty, not staff travel.One of the CC had gone out of their way to try to drop me in the s@#t. I am sure others have their own stories similar to this one.
CX CC are in a class of there own but are in no way representative of the HK population in general who are very nice people. CX train them to dislike the pilots. Amazing.

[ACMS]

yeah..............I've had some wonderful trips where the new CC come outside for a walk around with their cameras and come up to the cockpit for t/o and ldg. Big smiles and a good time had by all.:ok:

They can also be outright rude, it's a bit hit or miss really.

Any CC that was raised in a western country tend to be very good.

Still, it helps my marraige in the long run:ok: ( and my wallet )

Gotta stop lusting after those fine looking 23 y.o;s :{

[off_off_dim_and_off]

Sure!! Western countries are the best!!!:zzz:

[Fac6]

If I do a flight and it's widely open the I check with the ISM and invite 2 of the CC up for TO and Ldg

[coded_messages]

Hi fac6,

I know what you're trying to achieve but you wont get thanked for it, nor will they appreciate it. Actually the girls are so bitchy that you can bet your bottom dollar that the ones who sat on the flight deck got attitude from the rest of the crew. I have seen it!

An SP told me 3 days ago that around 700 junior cabin crew left right after they received their profit share.

But we are not short of crew ;)

[rick.shaw]

H Aviator. I stand corrected then. Well done to the former CP. Although, the cynical side of me would still say that a non-management Capt may not get away with it so easily. I'd like to be proven wrong though, and the precedent has been set it seems.....

By the way, speaking of FORMER CP's, did he have some farewell drinks lately? Was the bar overflowing with sympathites?

Time traveller - glad to hear the Oasis crew were nice. Maybe I was a bit harsh, but most of the problem crew I have dealt with have been HKG crew.

[ACMS]

off off dim and off:--------- sorry but it's a fact, any CC that has a "western" background is in the same playing field as us. Sorry to be direct but that's an indisputeable fact. Just like the local CC get along with the LEP better. I have lost count of the number of times the local SO disappears with the CC to slurp noodles WITHOUT asking any of the rest of us along.

I accept that fact, maybe you should take off your glasses and look around.

I wasn't meaning that our Western raised CC are better, just that they understand us and communicate better. And for us that's AS GOOD AS IT'S GUNNA GET.

[armchairpilot94116]

ITS one thing to have C/A that are good for a chat and maybe a drink or at least act in a civilized manner. But if it was a case of bringing your own (young and good looking) girls to every port for nocturnal activities? IF pilots were consistently successful in that respect with the C/A , then everyone would want to be a pilot. :8

Should get real. They are not there for that purpose.

MAybe there should be only male C/A? Then no issues about 'crew feeling' or forming a wolf pack down at the bar after the flight?

[Yeager]

Just dont EVER expect to get anything - at all that is -that reminds you of ANY normal European airline in terms of working enviroment with Cathay Pacific Airways. If you wanna hang out and have something of a normal intelligent (sorry "normal" in this context it "western") social life at work - you have come to the wrong place, Mate. Its just not happenin here!
Even if you do end up going out with the "crew" in say Joburg og Frankfurt - its a Mickey Mouse thing - sure thing, its culture - never the less - it absolutly nothing to write home about - unless you fancy Mickey. :D

Who the f... wants to eat noodles with that local SO and a 21 years old Honkie anyways (speak about Mickey!).. :eek::oh:

[Hellenic aviator]

rick.shaw,

Although, the cynical side of me would still say that a non-management Capt may not get away with it so easily. I'd like to be proven wrong though, and the precedent has been set it seems.....

I know a STC on our fleet that offloaded the ISM - there had been a disagreement between them whilst on their way to the aircraft, he felt she was being rude to him, and ordered the SP to take over. She finally walked off the plane at about 20 mins before pushback. He has done this twice now. I applaud him for taking a stand and reminding the 'guilty' what are the ranks of the Chain of Command - ISM is #5, not #1 or 2, as some think they are.

By the way, speaking of FORMER CP's, did he have some farewell drinks lately? Was the bar overflowing with sympathites?
Um, dunno, I wasn't in the vicinity.

Just like yourself, I find that the HKG based crews are the ones that act like Mongkok specials. I've heard that they are trained from ground school to dislike us - not sure whether that is fact or just someone's opinion. I would like to think the latter.

It's been my experience that the based crews seem much more approachable than the HKG based ones albeit as others have said, it's more or less a hit-and-miss.

Personally, I agree 110% with ACMS, Still, it helps my marraige in the long run ( and my wallet ) and Yeager unless you fancy Mickey.

....to each his own...

[ACMS]

I don't want to go out and slurp noodles with the crew BUT it would be nice to be asked every now and then.
Maybe I expect too much courtesy?

Anyway, good trips do come along, just don't hold your breath tooo long waiting.:ok:

[jetjockey696]

Guys I know how most of pilots feel, I work in a :mad: airline in South east asia. I am chinese, but speak little chinese, so I converse in english. Most of the time, well all the time...I try to speak to my cabin crew, to get a good atmosphere going therefore good CRM and maybe to make a few friends.

Guess what.... the only people who actually speak to me is the non-chinese crew. the chinese stand in the corner of the galley looking like a retard gauping into our group of "OK- not so hot in english speaking" crew. When you to speak to the chinese crew, you get a mumble and/with attitiude..forget it.

I realised after studying them. most of them are shy and can't speak english (basic english) very well, badly mannered, no culture etc and so they are scared to talk with you...they don;t know what you are talking about most of the time...:ugh: therefore the reason that they dont ask you for noodle or a cuddle is for that reason..no :mad: lost. As for me, I got the cold shoulder, because I am chinese and I dont converse in chinese...they even told me to learn chinese....COLDLY:* Really want to B:mad:h slap them.


BUT the non-chinese asian cabin crew can;t speak english very well but ALEAST they try, i cant fault that.:ok: AND they tend to go out for drinks etc after work.....no sexual intentions included, well that fine with me.

90% of have attitude problem even the not so hot girls..because they are cabin crew..(NOSE IN THE AIR), they all have mini god complex... HELLO.. iam a pilot, I should be one with the attitude...

Overall chinese girls in Asia have a attitude problem...with a shy complex.
compared with chinese girls out of asia,eg. america, europe etc who has be cultured..

I am sorry if I sound a little racist, but that the truth..after 5yrs of approaching them and trying to talking with them...WASTE OF TIME...

[Captain Dart]

The brains of 12-year-olds in the bodies of 24 year-olds.

[coded_messages]

Just did a trip,

Was very friendly on bus, joked etc. Flight had about 100 pax on it so I said to the ISM because of the light loading I was inviting any 2 crew to come up and experience the take off and landing. 10 minutes later she comes back and says "Everyone says no" :ugh: Nice CRM huh?

I thought it particularly rude!

[Yeager]

jj698,

Good info. Think you are quite right!

[armchairpilot94116]

quote:
Just did a trip,

Was very friendly on bus, joked etc. Flight had about 100 pax on it so I said to the ISM because of the light loading I was inviting any 2 crew to come up and experience the take off and landing. 10 minutes later she comes back and says "Everyone says no" :ugh: Nice CRM huh?

I thought it particularly rude!

unquote


__________________

Forget bout it, just treat them like the lepers that they think you guys are?

And judging from whats been said before, any girls that go up there likely will get ostracized and treated like *hit by the ISM and others. Who would want to go ?

Sad.

[Yeager]

Obviously a lot of the girls in the cabin dont give a f... and a rats ass about anything but their overnight allowances. The new honkies aged around 21 are on a louzy 3 years contract - why would they care whether the cognac comes on the side or goes into the coffee. They simply do not care - and how would they know - its not noodles. Cathay Pathetic will never again receive - the worlds best airline rewards - its been mis-managed. Pure and simple.

One must wonder how it all ever got so much out of control. Its a sad, sad story and setup Cathay Pacific management has managed to create.
I am happy I did not have to witness the nasty 00-01' pilot despute and even more happy not having to witness the next one.

One thing you gotta credit CX for - they have managed to mis-manage allround - and not just here and there. Full credit on that. :D

[mooney59]

Absoutely correct.They are on a mass, frenzy recruitement for Cabin Crew from other asian countries.The ''Same Team,Same Dream'' has not worked out.

[James' Bro]

Cathay Pathetic

Arrive in battered shape !:E

Co-incidentally... had this banter with an ISM last week ! Was a SLF...

[jetjockey696]

"Same Team, Same country, Same f:mad:g nightmare"

I think you need to hire from outside hK to get rid of this "HK dream team cabin crew" there are alot of girls from south of HK does a better job. than "the dream team". Thai, malay, indo, etc BUT NOT singaporean girls :=(Sorry).

Guys.. especially "coded-message" forget inviting chinese girls to the cockpit as many have stated they actually dont give a ass about cockpit visits..if you want to be thanked about cockpit visit give the visit to a PAX. I invited a few, two fell asleep as I rotated out of KL. all they are concern with is the label (nission or maggi) on there MSG load noodles and there superstar status on the people (non-crew) below them, no interest in flying...a few actually stated "ain't you job boring, just sitting there doing nothing" :ugh: BUT actually the non-chinese crew do thanked us for the jumpseat everytime we offered to them and funny enough they actually want to questions about the switches, levers and not forgetting the all time favourite trim wheel..as it spins.:D

As you can guess I am not a lover or fan of chinese crew, especially Cabin crew.

[hyg]

Just from my short time in cx, this is a little observation from a local point of view....For the local cabin crews, couple of reasons they don't wanna talk to pilots.....

1.this mainly lies with the junior ones. They are just being scared of becoming the centre of bitching session about throwing themselves at boys, tho most of the ones who have worked for more than 2-3 yrs couldn't give a rat ass about what other ppl says. One could not imagine the seniority mindset down the back, and this is just among BCs. I was soo surprised with the way some of them talk about BCs more junior to them, seems like they expect more respect from the new BCs than some Capts ask of us......

2. This is mostly reason why they don't want to talk to the expats, they are just not prepared or don't want to change language... I know you lots may say, this is the airline industry and it's an english based industry... but u have to agree english is not their first language and in many cases in their daily lives, they don't use it at all...Being a local, everytime when someone came in when the Capt/FO went to the loo, the girl who came in is always willing to chat....

Some of them are interested in what we do and despite the fact we all hate the company about cost cutting, I have actually been told us sitting up the sharp end are the last thing cx is still worth travelling with, which kinda says at least we're still getting some respect from them down the back, even if it's minimal....

[The Wraith]

Whatever!
Fact is, the girls work hard for very little pay...certainly less than they are worth. If you are polite and treat them with the respect they deserve they will return as such.
With the occasional exception...like pilots....they are a good bunch!
Just be nice....and accept they don't all want to sleep with you.;)

[Left Wing]

and accept they don't all want to sleep with you..isnt that the hardest part ....:}:ok:

[ThreadBaron]

Despite all the shot being fired here about the realtionship between flight deck and cabin crews I am pleased, as pax, that none of it showed and that the cabin service on CX250, 23/5, CX171, 24/5, CX170, 7/6 and CX255 11/6 was above reproach. Friendly, efficient and capable were you all. Thanks passed to the ISMs concerned ... Vera, Candice and Kemmi, (sorry CX170, I did not get your name.:()

Flight deck performance was beyond reproach too ... expecially the very wet landing of CX170 at HKG. What was the problem with the nose-wheel steering ... anyone know?:ok:

[Pradet]

I understand your problem and feel for you..
Besides that could you tell me if Cathay is worth applying to as an Airlines with good qualities of life, carreer, up-grade time etcs...
Thanks.

[StandardToaster]

Fac6
"Recently did a flight, was on the bus and as the girls came on after us we all said "hi." Well about 5 (all locals) just blatantly ignored us. By the 3rd one I'd had enough so stood up and very loudly (in a joking way) said "hi" with a big smile and put my hand out to them, they looked lost! I joked and said why you not saying hello to us? Do we smell? and laughed. All of the girls who had ignored us didn't even smile and just sat on their mobile phones chatting. Utter rudeness."

:D an Alan Partridge moment

[kluge]

Glad to read someone had a +ve experience with CX.

I have stopped flying on CX. The service is mediocre and in my experience has degraded in the last 12 years that I have been flying on CX.

Typical HK attitudes, no brains, follow a set menu of options and if you try and deviate from it you get the response "cannot". Unbelievable.

Sticking to Gulf, Qatar and Air NZ for the long hauls now.
Sorry CX you lost my loyalty and business (and first) travel dollars through poor service and attitude - simple as that.

[Teal]

... Vera, Candice and Kemmi..Interesting to see even after 11 years of PRC sovereignty over HK, the Honkie girls still give themselves fantasy/film star names. :hmm:

No doubt there are many a CX CC member called Candy, Bambi, Suzie, Queenie, Annie, Maggie, etc.

[mooney59]

How about Cindrella,Melon and Gassy?

By the way you guys are starting to sound really desprate -think of how this thread is being perceived by them.My advise -Don't give a rats ass!!

[HotDog]

Right but not just Cathay girls. Some of the cute waitresses at The Hong Kong Golf Club (ne RHKGC) called Money, Milky.:ok:

[kluge]

or even "Wealthea"......could be the start of a new thread. HK's silliest names thread.

[gliderboy]

Here is a real name..

Fanny Pang....seriously

If one letter changed....then it would be rather smelly!

Gliderboy

[EngineOut]

Here is a great site that has a good summary of 'local' western names. Very Amusing...

http://www.bigwhiteguy.com/tea/names.php

[HotDog]

Fanny Pong, you should know better than that by now. Oriental fannys do not pong!:E

[ThreadBaron]

Teal

Interesting to see even after 11 years of PRC sovereignty over HK, the Honkie girls still give themselves fantasy/film star names.


Yet you give yourself a duck's name and nobody mocks you ... unless you count this post.:O

Give'm a break, FFS!

[BlunderBus]

i agree with some of the comments on a 'vacant' reaction but it's been cx policy to only hire(with few exceptions)hk local crews the last few years.almost 2/3rds or more of all crews are now CT on the crew list.Most of these are new,the turnover is horrendous,they're on really crappy pay and contracts,and the attitude to 'service' is really starting to show.it's not necessarily a local hk thing but a product of min pay and very little training along with zero pride in the job...why bother if you only intend staying a year?
cx get what they pay for and the girls can obviously see what the more senior crew contracts are......ring a bell?
they're understandably ticked off and cockpit crew, sniffing around in the galleys during meal service and asking to be fed on the ground, are irritations to be tolerated.given the appalling manners of some junior (and not so junior cockpit crew) i dont blame them for ignoring you.:rolleyes:

[kluge]

....or Fanny Bang :eek:

Which could translate as meaning:

1. Instructions of what to do.

2. The ultimate in chastity protection


"Kanus" is another name I have seen. :E

[buggaluggs]

'Porn' is still my fav :} , yeah I know she's Thai, and that's her actual name, but still brings a smile :E . Tho having said that, perhaps I should check out what my name means in different lingos before I hand out too much grief! :ooh:


'Thankyou for the friiiiiiiiight' :oh:

[EngineOut]

thread baron,

before you attack teal's name, check what the name of the main colour of cx is.

While you're there, I think you should have another look at what the 2 Ps in PPRuNe stand for.

[BuzzBox]

Here is a real name..

Fanny Pang....seriously

And another one:

Fanny Sit...

I kid you not.

[EXEZY]

Flew a few weeks ago with someone called Glue, now there's a name that sticks!

[kluge]

That must have been Super !

[Cpt. Underpants]

GenDec's list the crew names in the following order:

Chinese Last name (surname)/Chinese First Name/English name ("christian name")

I kid you not...

Chu My Fanny

I kept it, it's framed, scanned and circulated...

Only In Hong Kong.

[sanook]

Not only in HKG How about;
Huflung dung
wonhung lo
tohung lo
Mustapha ...anything
Ivor hardon
Hugh organ
and of course
Mstr. Bates
:}

[Hellenic aviator]

When I was on the -400, I flew with an ISM who is named "Pussy".
....I bit my lip to stop laughing in front of her as I introduced myself.
:p

[armchairpilot94116]

What? Never heard of Pussy Galore?

[Teal]

How about Pussy Galore's replacement, Felicity Shagwell?

"Shagwell by name, shag very well by reputation". "Oh be-have". "Not if I can help it".

Looks like this thread has wandered off down a different path...:}

[superfrozo]

Actually Teal, being the pedantic pr!ck that I am:

...the successor to "Pussy Galore" was actually "Alotta Fagina"!

:}

PS and yes, we now have the EICAM Master Warning >THREAD DRIFT.

[kluge]

I flew back to HK from Singapore on CX716 at 18:20 last friday night and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised.

The Flight Attendants were polite, attentive, efficient and professional.

I was also impressed with the new economy seat and IFE system. Well done CX. :ok:

I retract my previous statement.

Shame the girls don't wear higher heels though. :E

[Teal]

Shame the girls don't wear higher heels though.Along with fishnet stockings....:}

[armchairpilot94116]

Shoot, then you will have the FD crew taking turns to stretch out in the cabin on their hands and knees sniffing the fishnets as they walk by?? :eek:

[VR-HFX]

Don't you miss the ginger beers...

'Cabin attendants, please prepare your drawers for the arrival'

Fortunately, it went through to the keeper on most occasions:E

[BlunderBus]

i like the way you think!

[HotDog]

My dear friend HFX, you have a long memory indeed! Sadly, the knickers are too big to fit in my pocket any more.:E

[VR-HFX]

HD

Indeed...there were a few of the oldies at the HK7's this year... squeezed into things that are now about 4 sizes too small. Still charming though!

Suggest bigger pockets:E

[HotDog]

Right, I have been squeezing into things that are now four sizes too .......:mad:!:sad:

[capt787]

i know a hk gal name herself 'Holiday'?! :bored:

needless to say there are lots of fruits around, like 'strawberry', 'mango' and 'peach' :\

and best of all, last year i was introduced to someone name herself 'one-two-three' :8

[Cripple 7]

I heard this when I was on the L1011...

"Ladies & Gentlemen, this is your purser, Manny Hor, speaking. Welcome on board...

[AnAmusedReader]

Ah, that takes us back to the good old days. Kai Tak, the Cathay Club, when the girls were part of the party scene....

Was it you C7 who told me this (true) story?

Cabin attendant comes to the flight deck to introduce herself to the crew and said to the captain, "Hello, I'm Dim."

Captain says, "Hello, I'm not too bright myself."

[SassyPilotsWife]

Awwww my poor hubby who flies freight doesn't get to play with the gals on pax carriers LOL.. i'm sure he could during a layover but some of us wives actually take great care of our men in bed.. and before you reply with.. well let me tell you what goes on, let me tell you that we have the same opportunities when you boys are gone the only difference is the hot young stud we have is in YOUR bed at YOUR home of the mortage YOUR paying :)

[kluge]

this sounds saucy...tell more....

[bekolblockage]

Sassy.
Is your location right?
Sure you don't live in DB? :E

[CodyBlade]

Last time I checked there were no Hunks,Toy boys or Studs in DB.

[Yeager]

Nasty chick.. F@cking around while her husband is out doing all the dirty work for uncle Cathay.. Suppose she has to change the bed linnen herself in contrast to her husband who just has to check out.. :ok:

[icarusone]

Sassy, is it you ? ?

http://vermontdailybriefing.com/wp-content/my-images/fatal.jpg

[treboryelk]

Sassy.....just remember that we dont get laid in the air so girls or no girls, makes no difference. definitely had more down route fun on the freighter than the pax fleet....so you better start looking after your hubby especially well.

and even if you do that, once you start wrinkling and aging, all those lonely days away will just be welcome opportunity.

[Yeager]

As we speak.. I have a date with a cabin crew on Thursday. Its gonna be nasty.. Nasty.. You gotta get the best out of life right! :ok:

[The Messiah]

The poor girl. Would love to see the look on her face when you try to split the bill at the end.:)

[bekolblockage]

The poor girl.
Who said anything about girl?
Could be really nasty.:}

[Yeager]

I would never - ever - split the bill.
I will leave it all for her! :D

[Hellenic aviator]

Absolutely !

They want equality - they can pay our share just as we have been paying theirs.

"Now iron my uniform shirt and bake me a pie, b*tch !" :E

[armchairpilot94116]

Anyone still wondering why the girls dont want to go out with the flight crew? :ugh:

[Yeager]

Haha... "bake me a pie.." - great! Has anybody flown with Fukme lately? :D

Why is it that some guys seems to think that as long as the pay the bill - the girls dont care how old, ugly and/or useless they are?? I guess its Hong Kong, right - money talks and bull**** walks.. Yeah right.. Money just makes some people completely ignorant. :ok:

Thank God and Muhammed - there is a real world out there too - it may be far away for some, but its there...

[AGNES]

May I ask why the girls always sit at the back of your shuttle bus while the cockpit crew always sit in the front? Is it your company policy?

[Yeager]

Simple, Agnes. Its just as fake as the rest of the "setup". The CX appointed leaders are sittin' in up front. In reality most of the "leaders" wouldnt have the f..... balls to stand up against any cabin crew should they have to. Why? Simply. There will be no backup from "your" management pilots - they will be all busy covering their own a.. Hell, they even eat their own - its not that long ago - remember!
Disneyland may seem like a fairytale but dont you forget - in Disneyland nothing and no thing is for real - not even Mickey Mouse. Just dont tell that to your kids := ;)

No where has Fukme gone too? :ok:

[BusyB]

Yeager,

Sometimes you really are in a world of your own. The sad thing is I don't think most people are ever going to visit you there.:=

[Hellenic aviator]

armchairpilot94116 : Anyone still wondering why the girls dont want to go out with the flight crew?

Who said I wanted to go out with any of our girls ?

You can enjoy talking to them about their Hello Kitty collections, their cute lil' mobile phone trinkets and their cute lil' tags hanging off their rollerboards whilst eating Chinese or Thai cuisine all over the world, knock yourself out mate :E

[kluge]

"Disneyland may seem like a fairytale but dont you forget - in Disneyland nothing and no thing is for real - not even Mickey Mouse."

This is a definition of Hong Kong.

[EngineOut]

I had one called "Pantasy" the other day

Why is it that they fly all over the world, and all they will do is go and hang out in the local Chinatown and chinese food everywhere?

[400 Jockey]

With potential for ridicule...

I found this originally quite a good thread to discuss CC issues, however it's plain to see that this has just degenerated into a sad and pathetic chauvinistic bashing and slagging off of our CC. :eek:

Isn't it great that all the public can see just how great and intelligent the Cathay pilots are huh? :D All this beatings of chests is pathetic.

I personally feel the Moderator should close this thread.

Sorry guys but this has stooped pretty low. Now I know why the girls think we are a bunch of f*ckwits!

Yea I know... I can bugger off, get a life etc.

[Yeager]

The hat police and the self appointed moderators are still here. Gotta make u laugh.. :{ cryin' like little chicks..

Well back to the thread.
Has anybody ever seen the so-called cabin crew "hate list"? Rumour has long had it that such a thing is around - and I am so afraid that I'm on it.. Me - crying like a chick too.. :{

[armchairpilot94116]

I wonder if the CC are printing up whats been said here and distributing it for a good laugh?

[drnetsurfer]

But let me say this about pilots....forget whether their is Camaraderie amongst the crew in general. Why are we as pilot equivocating our jobs as pilots with that of the men and women that work in the cabin. There vastly different occupations. One can be attain in less than two weeks....another takes a number of very painful years to attain. Only to have insulting cabin crew say we didn't work our way up. I beg to differ. We need to start fighting for our respect......otherwise you will be waiting for your coffee for 45 minutes and written up by someone who barely completed high school. They can do all the write ups they want....I neither desire them or what they have to offer.....but our position is different; and as such when we ask for coffee or other courtesy extended by the company...it should done in a reasonable time......stop asking to hang out with them...they’re plenty of normal women ( Men if that’s your flavor) to find friendships with than the cabin crew. However, throwing peanuts around a cabin doesn't make you god's gift.....:D

[HotDog]

drnetsurfer, We need to start fighting for our respect......otherwise you will be waiting for your coffee for 45 minutes and written up by someone who barely completed high school. They can do all the writing up they want....I neither desire them or what they have to offer.....but our position is different
I think if you want more respect, you can start by improving your English grammar skills. Also you'll find that lot of the Cathay girls have not only completed high school but have higher academic qualifications that you so obviously lack.:rolleyes:

[Suk MaDong]

What you guys got against Cathay girls? I only have say name and much laughing.

[Cripple 7]

HotDog, how long have you been married to a Cathay girl?

[drnetsurfer]

Never thought you were appointed the forums evaluator on grammar or sentence composition. Otherwise, you forgot a comma after (Also, you’ll find). You would also be far off the mark as to my level of education. I never remarked that cabin crew didn’t finish high school. Nor did I remark that a few might not have achieved higher levels of education. But my statement still stands, we as pilots do not have to equivocate our positions with that of the cabin crew. We need no praise from cabin crew or adoration. But they need to recognize that we do occupy different positions. As pilots, we had to slave our way to where we are today. Our positions as pilots come with certain responsibilities, authority, and privileges ( If we still have those left). If company policy allows for me to ask for coffee or other items necessary during a flight or gives the Captain higher authority and responsibility, then that’s the way it is. We don’t need the additional commentary on how hard they think we work as pilots up front or whether we are deserving of service during a flight; that’s part of the job description as cabin crew. I am not defending guys who are rude or go trolling for cabin crew to hang out with on overnights. But if someone in the cabin crew finds that they are deserving of high wages or a superior position within the company to which their overwhelming level of education affords, then by all means apply for that position. But you applied for the position of cabin crew and all that it entails. You want more, apply for something else or find a different line of work.

When I was an enlisted man in the military, I may have work harder than some in other jobs and I certainly thought I should be paid more. But I didn’t go around thinking that because the commanding officer seemly didn’t work harder in his air-conditioned office that my harder physical work or longer hours put me on equal footing with the commanding officer. As it turns out many years later when I advance to the officer corps, he actually did plenty of work as I found out.

So, I say to all pilots defend our occupation the way everyone else defends their occupations…. management, cabin crew, maintenance, electricians, plumbers etc etc We may make it look easy up front. But it wasn’t easy getting there and the job deserves the respect to which the position affords. Just like the CEO, Director of Flight Ops, etc etc

Right Hotdog!

Semper Fi

[HotDog]

Cripple7, to answer your question, 27 years.

drnetsurfer, I'm surprised Obama din't pick you for his No.2.:8

[James' Bro]

drnetsurfer.


Long in story but short in substance ! :O

[drnetsurfer]

Oh you are so right....substance on pprune hmmm .....end my rant!:ok:

[555orange]

Hey blokes...just my 2 cents here...
To me FA's are a mixed bag. Always have been. Some are willing to hang out, some not. You just gotta have the attitude..easy come easy go... and i've often been surprised, that after thinking one is all icy, she is actually quite nice when you get her away from the pressure of her colleagues seeing and talking. Many of these girls are gorgeous and can get any business class customer they want. Why would they want to date a pilot? Almost none of them need rescuing if thats what you think. And alot of them have alot of class, education, and some come from very wealthy families. Forget it if you think they fall all over themselves thinking your the ONLY good guy in the market for them. I think not... lol. Because to them, were not even close to the the dudes that actually pay for the seats up front. Women love to gossip...and when they date a pilot and break up... we become the enemy because we are the most familiar break up story. Its just the reality. Besides, do you really want to date a girl from work?? Do yourself a favour and find a girl with something better going on in her life than serving coffee at 350. Smile to the girls when they give you your coffe and then thats it.. ..and then tell your flying partner about how your gf is an accounant for Price Waterhouse and is managing a mutual fund!

[Yeager]

Good drills bloke,

The pressure of her colleagues - gotta bloody love that enviroment huh - nice.. Pathetic.

A lot of them have a lot of class.. Are you f.c.ing, freakin' kidding me.. Well ok, I see, if class is being able to shut the mouth while sipping a noodle soup - ok, I guess you are right. Well at the end of the day I suppose its all a matter of what standards one has..

Come from wealthy families.. Are you joking me. Do you seriously believe that an Asian girl would work as a cabin crew in that case.. I need yet another break, now..

AND then this story with education.. I do appreciate the fact that in some countries doctors work as taxi-drivers because they can earn more money that way - than could they as doctors - and thats really sad. But now lets not push things here. Just because some have had - say 3 years German, French or economics - doesnt make you Einstein. If they were so bloody smart they prop would have left the coffee/tea or me job after a year or two.

Only guy in the market and business class pax to pick up.. Buddy, you make them sound like they are working girls - I think thats pushing it a bit to far there :eek:

I agree to the fact that some of them are nice girls. No doubt.
But at the end of the day - find a girl outside work - thats a good piece of advice. In the meantime - why not just have fun with them lots :ok:

[Cumguzzler]

Yeager,

WTF happend? I thought you quit CX and went back to Denmark???

[Cripple 7]

Hotdog, good for ya! :D If I ever get down under, I will buy you guys a brewski. :ok:

[Marcopipo]

In old times, CC knew how to entertain front seats...:D
unfortunately old...:{. Come on girls take up the challenge!;)


Dailymotion - Striptease d'une hôtesse de l'air, a video from bade9292. pute, rap, banlieue, rohff, boon (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4sqc1_striptease-dune-hotesse-de-lair_school)

[Yeager]

CumGum,

Nope mate, not leaving until the very, very beginning of next year. Go figure. Just changed fleet to get the the rating. Might as well get the most out of it right. After all, we have been tought so by the masters of that. Go figure again. :D

Back to the original subject. When will CX start to hire some more Indians?
- they can be a bit of fun.

[The Messiah]

Yeah Yeager I heard about your upgrade. Apparently you proved yourself to be a first class turd during the sims. Good for you. Surprise surprise.

[Night Watch]

The Messiah Do you ever have anything constructive to say? Or do you only believe in making pointless, stupid comments?

So glad I'm not on your fleet, and will never fly with you!

Back to the thread......

I gave up on the CX girls years ago. After numerous attempts at being polite, friendly and evolving all in the "team".... I just couldn't be farked anymore. All I can say is.... My wife NEVER has to worry about me and any of the CX flight attendants.

[delay_no_more]

Quote:

Ok, I will stick my neck out on this one!

CX has definitely become a far less social airline among crew during my time.

Probably the biggest change was during 1995-1997 when cockpit ULH patterns were shortened to 4 days (so we could get more days off in HKG!!!!), while cabin crew remained in accordance with their contracts. The fact that you went outbound, and then returned with completely different cabin crew tend's to split crews apart. For cockpit crew the day of arrival is the only day to go out, while Cabin crew treat this as a day of rest, and go out the next day.

My more social trips have tended to be the longer ones when you all stay together as a crew, such as 5 or 6 day Jo'burg's, Amsterdam's, Adelaide's, Bahrain's, Penang's etc. These patterns are now ancient history!

However, things are now even more challanging for various reasons.

Our new cabin crew recruits are only paid $79 per hour, for a 100 hour month. This work load does not leave much enthusiasm for going out socialising with anyone on overnight stops! Also when the basic is only 8k, saving overnight allowances to cover living costs is even more important than before.

It is understandable that when staff are so poorly paid they tend to treat their employment as a short term job, rather than a long term career. Hence high levels of sickness, lots of resignations and low levels of motivation at work. This also affects how people fit into a crew.

CX Management have chosen to ignore the fact that it has been an employees market for jobs over the last few years in Hong Kong. They continue to cut back packages for staff, and struggle to fill classes for new cabin crew, by compromising on standards.

With HKG unemployment at 3.3%, and lots of jobs paying far better than CX, our new Cabin Crew recruits are either people who failed to get better jobs, or the minority who just really want to be Cabin crew (despite the pay, etc).

No doubt our longer serving pilots could make the same observation about newer generations of CX pilots, B scaler's, Freighter pilot's, etc. Basically CX get's what it pay's for.

The declining english language skills of our younger crew are an added issue. Current crew list demographics are typically for the bottom 2/3rds of the crew to be all cantonese speakers. Basically the aircraft effectively divides into two seperate operations with the cockpit and senior cabin crew being CX, and the back of the aeroplane becoming Mongkok Airlines.

In the outport these crew prefer to not "change channel" (speak english), so are reluctant to go out with non Cantonese speakers. Maybe if we all learned to speak cantonese we could overcome this!

Nothing is going to change with regard to the social situation, so just accept it. To socialise with cabin crew, it is probably better to latch on to other airline crews. This is definitely a better option, especially if you are married to CX cabin crew!

As a Captain, you have to try and build enough of a team to face the possible challanges of the trip. This is not easy when you only get 5 minutes or so on the crew bus, and half the crew are yakking away on mobile phones etc. You just have to put in the effort to make sure that all the senior crew are comfortable to call you when something goes wrong in the cabin.

Unquote

changing all those subjects/objects will become hkcad conditions.

[quadspeed]

Messiah

Why don't you give the guy some slack? You've by now made the point that you know his identity. Taking cheap shots at him publicly when you yourself hide behind anonymity makes you, sir, a coward. If you disagree, then argue your point. But using his identity to poison your sting is cheap and pathetic.

Most of us obviously don't share Yeagers opinions, but this being a public internet forum and most of us living in what remains of a democratic society entitles him to make his statements. They are, after all, his opinions. He shouldn't have to worry, as you not-so-subtly are implying, that the secret police will be knocking on his door for criticizing a system that, as we all probably agree, could still use some work for the better.

Yeager balances one extreme side of opinions.. It might have gone unnoticed to you, but one cornerstone of democracy allows the accused to know the identity of his accusors.

[The Messiah]

It's a rumour network and I heard the rumour that he behaved like a first class turd, if that makes me a coward I can live with it.

Taking cheap shots at him publicly when you yourself hide behind anonymity makes you, sir, a coward.
I don't hide behind anything. Everyone on here posts with anonymity, that's the idea.

But using his identity to poison your sting is cheap and pathetic.
I have done no such thing. I have never used his name on here ever (unless his first name is Chuck, then I am guilty as charged), and I have little doubt that Yeager knows my identity in any case, it aint that hard to figure out. I would be happy to tell him he is a first class turd to his face if you would prefer, or shall it be pistols at dawn?

Hey it's just my opinion of him, you don't have to agree but, as I'm sure you are aware another cornerstone of democracy is freedom of speech.:ok:

[kluge]

Marcopipo - outstanding :ok:

[quadspeed]

I have done no such thing. I have never used his name on here ever really? is it amnesia or just a lie?

Wow [his name] you don't quit do you. You weren't this tough when we flew together, and you weren't that good either.
(The Messiah, 18th June 2007)there's a few more.... but not quite so subtle.

..with your 38th birthday coming and you only being an s/o..
The Messiah, 17th June 2007)The private message was a heads up that his identity is known in CX. He may need that safety net at SAS sooner than he thinks if he continues to use words like imcompetent when referring to his new boss who he admitted he doesn't even know.(The Messiah, 5th July 2007)You've stated that everyone on here posts with anonymity; that IS the idea. Which is why your posts are poisoned and threathening, trying to imply that any of us should be afraid, very afraid, if you and your buddies manage to unmask any of us.

I don't know your identity, nor do I wish to do so. But if I did, it could be quite easy to create a user, based on any email account, and make slanderous accusations and post a few classified documents pretending to be you or someone very similar to you. Would that put your job on the line, or would it seem reasonable to give you the benefit of the doubt as to the origin of those posts?

The point being, things aren't always what they seem. You may even be targeting the wrong guy.

[The Messiah]

Oh yeah I forgot about that. :ouch: I guess I must really dislike him.

trying to imply that any of us should be afraid, very afraid, if you and your buddies manage to unmask any of us
If that was my motive I would have done it don't you think? That implication is your own paranoia speaking. The PM was genuinely to tell him to wind his neck in, as if I know who he is then so do plenty of others.

Yeah I shouldn't have used his name but he really pi##ed me off.

[kluge]

with all the childish bickering the thread name does appear to be appropriate, does it not ?

[Yeager]

No hard feelings Mess,

My opinions may be extrem at some points, as its correctly being noted. You, Mess (and others) , may not like them or the way they are presented, but like everything else in life there are things you just have to live with, like it or not.

Your childish and totally irrelevant comments about me only puts you into character. It appears to me that you are just as lonely as you have always been. The sad news is that, that will most likely never change. Some people just never grow up.

[The Messiah]

Yes true they are childish and totally irrelevant comments about you, but they're not baseless.

[asianeagle]

[email protected]'m bored! :zzz:

did you hear about the CA that.........(someone finish the story!)

[jsshousestaff]

When wiil you gents ever realise that our cabin crew are only attracted to royalty.

The Prince