OAA/Netjets Aeros & Unusual attitudes training

[ix_touring]

The Netjets course at OAA contains an extra 2week course at the end on Aerobatics and unusual attitudes/situations.
Any ideas what these are? Why to NJE need these and other airlines don’t? Aren’t aeros covered in std. flight training…
Are any of the NJE fleet aerobatic rated... might spill the fizz and sushi! :O:*
cheers,
iX

[redsnail]

Yep, you're right, doing aeros would mess up the sushi and might spill the G&T. This will add to the turn around time as you'll have to clean it up. :eek:

Aeros isn't a part of a standard flying syllabus.

Why do NJE request it and no other airline does? Well, if you're a direct entry pilot you don't need aeros either. However, you join with a min 1,500 hours.
NJE doesn't do what a normal airline does. We do a lot more visual approaches and circling approaches to unfamiliar aerodromes than the airlines. An easyJet FO at Luton will fly to maybe 20-30 airports and nearly every second arrival will be at Luton. A FO for NJE will go to 20-30 different airport in their first two months. I've been in NJE for over 3 years and I'm still going to airports I haven't been to before.

We can't train in the sim for all the airports we go to, if we did we'd never get out of the sim.

Since cadets come online with a lot less experience than our direct entry pilots, the Aero and UA training is to give specific training in handling skills.

An ILS usually doesn't cause many problems as there's positive electronic azimuth and vertical guidance, however, a circle to land can cause a whole world of hurt if not handled properly.

[bArt2]

I don't know if what you (ix touring) are stating is thrue, however I can tell you that Aerobatics are not included in standard flight training.

Before JAR regulations came in force it was a requirement (in Belgium at least) to follow an aerobatics course to get a CPL.

Being an instructor pilot for 10 years in the air force, I have done a lot of aerobatics and I think it is a good thing to improve the overall feel of the aircraft and flying skills.

Unusual attitudes are also part of the military pilot training and the aim of these exercises are to be able to recover the aircraft in case you end up with your aircraft in an unusual attitude (for example 45º nose up or inverted nose down).

You could end up in this situation after suffering spatial disorientation or failure of the attitude indicator (the latter could lead to the first) or due to some other curcumstances


None of the aircraft operated by Netjets can do aerobatics off course :bored: but like I said performing aerobatics improves your flying skills (my humble opinion)

[hollingworthp]

The cadets do have an extra 2 weeks at the end of the standard APP course which includes 5 hours (I believe) in a Zlin or something similar doing spin recovery etc.

[EK4457]

A bit strange if you ask me (no expert - I agree!). Whilst I understand that airline and biz jets have their differences, I'm really not sure that aerobatics can fill that gap. What does a barrell roll or loop have to do with a circle to land? How does it help you with an approach you are unfamiliar with? Don't forget, no matter who you fly for, ALL the approaches are unfamiliar to start with.

Also, the most common unusual attitudes are covered in the CPL and IR anyway.

On the subject of spinning, I have always maintained that spinning should be included in the CPL course. It is criminal that an ATPL holder flying a jet might never have spun an aircraft (and recoverd it).

I'd be interested to find out who is paying for this part of the course. I know who my money is on....

EK

[ix_touring]

Slightly off topic (but I started it so hey!) ...

I've done plenty of gliding and had to do loops, stalls and spins as part of that... seems strange that it ISN'T covered in the ppl let alone highs certs.

There was a student recently (last cople of years I think) who spun/spirled in on the circuit wasn't there?

iX

PS std form on AE flights in the cadets was:

Pilot: What would you like to do today?

Cadet: Aeros please!

Got quite good a stall turns but never quite managed a neat barrel roll though (only flew 4 times a year for 20 mins each though...)

Still if I'd had an ATR not a chipmunk...:E

[hollingworthp]

NJE pay for the extra part of the course (along with the extra accommodation - although the Cadets pick up the rest of the training bill) and I also doubt seriously that we will be doing any loops etc. It was specified by NJE so it will doubtless include maneuvers which they feel appropriate - i.e. spin recovery as stated.

[EK4457]

Fair doos then...