RE: Opportunity for Singaporeans to join MAS

[boeinglover]

Hi all, does anyone has any idea of Singaporeans being selected for cadet pilot training with MAS rather than with SQ???
Hopefully our counterpart country could spare some space for our locals while their own citizens join SQ!!!!!

[ManaAdaSystem]

MAS do not train cadets, they just employ them. Why waste money?

[Sunny]

Well boeinglover, what makes you think that they would take in S'poreans when their own countrymen are having difficulties getting in?

[joblessflyer]

Boeinglover,

MAS will never take Singaporean and SQ would prefer Malaysian cadet pilots.Sad to say this is the tradition.

cheers!

[Jollywings]

dear boeinglover,

With all the guys in Malaysia trying to get in.... it seems they only take in "HIGHLY RECOMMENDED" people with "HIGHLY RECOMMENDED LETTERS".....you might have a tough time competing with these guys.

Their tactics are now perseverance which means MAS recruiters will persevere until you give up or you do not have a life to live, whichever comes first.

Then they will call you in for an interview and tell you that it is actually a review of the previous two interviews and aptitude tests...

Pathetic bunch of nut case.... Be aware !!!

Be Jolly

[sia sniffer]

In 1994, SIA lost about 8 Senior F/Os to MAS, as the SFOs had been bypassed for their commands with SQ because they were, err,Malaysian.SQ then came up with a cosy relationship with MAS, in that MAS would not take Malaysians from SQ, but SQ could readily take Malaysians for training.

I dont even think that Malaysians who join SQ and have finished their bonds,can resign and join MAS.

Malaysians,Expats, infact anybody who is not "Singaporean" will have a tough time with the blatant racism in SIA as well as Singapore.Beware.

[boeinglover]

Dear joblessflyer, I bet that's the way of life for a local guy here with good/high hope to join his national airline after a good education but too shock to discover that things don't work out the expected or in an appropriate way. Why SQ mostly select Malaysian candidates??? I know "Nationality" may or may not the issue here but don't you agree that there should be equal opportunity for local guys as well. With the proper training & guidance, I believe anyone tom,dick or harry can fly. It's only a matter of whether one is born to fly. That's born talent!!!! You can be a degree holder, a Doctorate, Diploma level holder or even A level holder, as long you are not the kind of character "they" wanted, you are out!!!! What kind of recruitment champaign they have?? Is this the way "they" select pilots????

Regards,

[joblessflyer]

boeinglover,
too bad this is the truth.guess we can't change the world.I don't know if writting to PM GCT will help but I doubt it will.for your info there are about close to 100 Singaporean ATPL/CPL qualified who could not get into SQ or MI.you tell me what is going on and how should these Singaporean feel towards being a Singaporean?
happy landing,cheers!

[Gladiator]

Better solution, get rid of PM GCT.

[boeinglover]

Hello joblessflyer,

Any chances for these 100 odd ATPL/CPL holders to find any other flying jobs locally or regionally say for eg fly for Mandala or some freighter services. What about DHL, Fedex & UPs??? Would these fellow pilots stand a chance of getting employment?? What about local flying clubs as QFI???

Cheers

[joblessflyer]

boeinglover,

most airlines in the world would give job preference to their own nationals only especially for cadet pilot scheme. question is why should they give a non-national a job over a national? the company would have to answer to their immeigretion dept, DCA/FAA, home affairs dept, union and so on. why would one company take so much trouble just to take a new guy in? different situation like HKG's CX is they could not find enough people to fill their vacancies so they recruits expats for their cadet scheme. SQ is totally the other way round, they prefer non singaporean especially malaysian chinese for their cadet scheme. there is a saying: a sure way for a singaporean wannabe to join SQ is to become a malaysian first, join SQ and later get back to become a spore citizen/PR. forget about joining flying clubs. ask yourself do you want to spend over hundred of thousand dollars just to instruct in a piper or cessna for an airspace that can only fly not even 10 mins of straight and level? however there might be one or two airlines a singaporean like you can try to apply(in terms of licensing acceptance, location etc)one is air mandalay in myanmar I know they do take in low time CPL's as long as you are willing to pay for your own type rating. pls don't feel discourage by my reply and wish you all the best in your job search.

good luck!




[This message has been edited by joblessflyer (edited 27 September 2000).]

[SPG LSS]

It can be worst you know, try being female with aspirations to fly. No chance in Singapore.

[Djoni Boerhanoeddin]

Hi for no wonder, for your info I am graduated from SQ cadets pilot in Seletar (course 28)but I am not chinese and not Malaysian since 1992 I tried to joint SQ and send my application letters twice a year, but stiil rejected although I was graduated in 1980 and at present current in B747-400 I give up to get job from SQ in 1997, because I believe they do have the job for chinese only so don't forget to mention your race when you send your application

[joblessflyer]

SPG LSS,

if you don't mind flying in malaysia for pleasure,maybe i could fulfil your aspiration.

[boeinglover]

Dijoni,

Is it true that one can only try SQ cadet scheme only once, ie no second try later!!! Are you already a trained or qualified pilot when SQ took you in?

[boeinglover]

Joblessflyer,

Which is the best well-known or recognised flying school around the world accepted by CAAS other than OATS in the UK?
Also is it true that SQ cadet scheme, one can only try once and there is no second try when rejected. I have heard contraditing statements from newly joined cadets that they have tried a couple of times before getting the green light to join!!! So no harm trying over & over again. Who knows? one might get in easily during severe shortage of pilots period? Further more, SQ is bringing more Jumbos into their fleet. So if they can't find expats to fly these big babies where can SQ turn to? Cadets pilots is their answer.

[joblessflyer]

boeinglover,

Messey Aviation in NZ is another school approved by the CAAS, and SQ flying college did accept self-sponsored students few years back provided their own cadet class is not full. BL, if you are a die-hard SQ wannabe and if you meet all their requirements it is advisable not to do your own training cos if SQ wants you they will prefer you be train by them with or without your own training. The other hand if you do not fit their bill, regardless of you coming with ATPL, 1000's of hours.....they won't even look at you. What I mean is, don't risk your money as aviation in Singapore is small and diff from other countries for if after spending about S$200,000.00 and still out of job,what you gonna do? I believe you are a graduate and if I were you I will just try for SQ cadet scheme as many times as you can(there is no restriction on nos.of time you try)let them pay for your training the way they wanted otherwise just do something else with your uni expertise.

There again,don't be discouraged by my thread as I have seen too many self-sponsor ATPL/CPLs out of work in Spore and heavily in debt for their flying training.

wish you luck.

[This message has been edited by joblessflyer (edited 30 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by joblessflyer (edited 30 September 2000).]

[boeinglover]

Hi joblessflyer,

Thanks for your valuable advice. But what I learned from one of my friend who is currently a SFO with the 744 fleet is that if once SQ reject me due to their unknown reasons, then I are out indefinitely & don't even bother to try again with SQ. Don't even think of getting into MI as well cause if SQ don't find me suitable, MI would not accept as well. Is this true??? Pls advice!!!

Perhaps when coming to the worse scenario, joining as a licence aircraft engineer or flight steward would be the last choice or career option. What's your views????

Regards,

[joblessflyer]

not really, unless you are blacklisted for some reasons.i know of friends who have tried 13 times before getting that job.

try for the cadet pilot otherwise aircraft engineer is not bad too. steward will be for short term planning unless you don't mind serving at your older age though you will find much fun.

generally, IT is the future.no matter what,don't spend your own money for a self sponsored pilot course(for singaporean only)

good luck !

[MASystem]

Dont spend your $$$ for flying training (for a Singaporean)

Phew, lucky MAS (sometimes) still accepts low-timers. Really lucky.

[boeinglover]

Thanks again joblessflyer for your words of advice.

Would definitely try for the cadet pilot.
Do you think having a parent or close friend working in SQ with better relation with flight Ops could land an individual a place on the flight deck. I saw a discussion on another topic saying that a chap got in quite easily as his dad has some connections with the people inside? Well sometimes, to get a wonderful job one would need the help of recommendations.

What you think!!

[boeinglover]

Hello MAsystem,
if a Singaporean happened to be a PPL holder, would he or she have the option to be employed by MAS. Even to operate on the 737 fleet??

[MASystem]

These days, the minimum requirement is a CPL/IR with frozen ATPL. That's what MAS wants for a low-timer to be considered.
If all goes well, then the fleet that one will be assigned to will depend on the fleet availability, either DHC-6, F-50, or the 737.
Good luck!

[joblessflyer]

boeinglover,
it definately helps if knowing somebody. basically the right place, time, with that effort and little luck, you're in.

MASystem,
i have heard of three singaporean malays and one singaporean singh joined pelangi air in malaysia but not mas.possible some ex-sq malaysian returned to joined, care to update?
what i meant in my previous thread was as a singaporean if not accepted by sq for their cadet scheme, not advisable to spend own money for flight training as work scope is almost zero. unlike other airlines would look into hiring their (own nationality) self-sponsored candidate.

cheers!

[MASystem]

Yeah, unless if Singaporeans wanna fly recreationally, they're better off applying for the SIA cadetship; since they don't recognise other qualifications.

[boeinglover]

Joblessflyer,

Could you provide some hints like questions asked, things to be done during initial interview to the last round before confirmation for SQ cadet pilot scheme?
In your earlier message, you mentioned that CX currently employs expats for their cadet scheme. Any idea if there are chances for Singaporeans? Any contacts to assist along?

MAsystem: do you know of any Singaporean currently self-sponsoring themselves at the Malaysian Flying College in Malacca? Does the college still taking in more of these students?

Cheers,

[Gladiator]

Have you ever considered immigration to another country. You may want to consider it since if qualified you will have ample and equal opportunity as well as a choice of air carrier.

You will get paid better wages, more days off, and best of all, cost of living will be 1/5 of Singapore.

[Protein]

BL,

u can try for the SQ cadetship as many times as you want.
if you're rejected at the early stages (like the first round or the aptitude test), they will accept and look at further applications at a later date cos they figure that you can sort out the glitches (eg get better hand eye coordination :))
if you're rejected at the final interview, they wont accept any more applications from you cos they feel they're rejection of the applicxation at that stage is for some basic reason (eg "attitude") which u cant fix.

hope it helps

[boeinglover]

Gladiator,

Well definitely I have considered overseas airlines but the issue here is that other airlines too give piority to their own nationality first rather than to an Alien not from their nation. Also which Airline would accept a fresh cadet pilot with not more than 20 flying hours to boost about? Would CX, SK, EK, Korean or US Airlines accept? Even locally, there are very slim chances for many self-sponsored Singaporean CPL/ATPL Wannabe to be accepted by his own National Airlines, what's the success rate if he venture overseas in search of greener pasture? Are there a sure win situation? No one can promise that right!!

Cheers

[boeinglover]

Protein,

Thanks for the info provided, do you know of what items consisted of their Aptitude tests? The "last interview" you mentioned I believe is the so called Tea-Party session.

Regards,

[Protein]

BL,
The last interview that i referred to is the tea-party session. they put you in a group if interviewees, and then interview you one by one. u feel like you're the target of a firing squad cos they have you seated alone in a room (no table in front of you to hide the fidgety legs), 10 feet away from about 8 interviewers.

Their aptitude tests have changed somewhat over the past couple of years. They used to have written IQ type tests. then it became computer-based tests. you'd sit in front of a terminal and answer these IQ type questions. There are also questions which test your immediate recall power (they flash a series of numbers at you for 3 seconds then ask you to recall the numbers). also included are the basic hand-eye coordination tests. they give you a joystick and have you try to make a randomly moving cross move in a more civilised manner along a specified course.
lately, they've added group work into the thing as well. this is where they put the whole lot of you together, then give you a task to solve eg build an airport to house the new a3xx in a crowded city. they want to see leadership, groupwork (cos u know they're heavily into the crm thing now) etc.

cheers

[boeinglover]

Protein,

Any idea what is the medical standard requirements like for SQ cadet scheme?? I have got a friend who is in his late twenties already but has a keen interest to join but is afraid for fear of rejection as he is short-sighted 6/60 without optical aid, but correctable to 6/6 with glasses and contact lenses. I have learned & seen for myself that some SQ pilots are wearing glasses for flight duties, does it means that SQ is also accepting potential candidates who are short-sighted but also meet the other requirements for their pilots position? Comments ?

regards,

[Protein]

BL,

as far as i know, they require you to have full color vision, and allow up to 6/24 vision without optical aids, correctable to 6/6. i dont know that they do accept guys with worse vision if they meet some other criteria.

:)

[boeinglover]

Thanks Protein for the info....
Did you have a go at it??

Regards,

[Protein]

BL,
i did give it a go, glad to say they liked something about me..!? interviews were sometime ago tho...

:)