Any feedback on the MOU ? ( MAS pilots only please ! )

[kurmitola]

Guys...there seems to be a deafening silence on this one. Or are you guys too busy counting the chickens or eggs ....

[squak7700]

Yeah they signed the MOU,but at what cost?Heard that you guys have to give up the first-class travel benefit with that miserable 10% payrise,pathetic.Union will be persuading members to give up this benefit....makes u wonder who benefits?

[kurmitola]

Then what happened to all that talk about a hugh payrise and crying pilots ( whom had left for KAL etc..etc..) ? Gerard , Amirul ...what happened ? Do you want another mandate from all of us ? I thought you guys are going to avoid another so called sell out. Give me back the previous Exco...NOW !!!

[QNH1013]

I've heard that 10% pay rise is the max allowed for all departments, however there will be another 20% given but that will be under productivity etc...making 30% rise all together.

[PILOST]

I don't know where you guys got your news but mine's at least from the horses mouth.

There was no sellout of the first class but the news were that the management wanted it before signing.Luckily, the exco negotiators were level headed & the MOU was sealed.Details remain the same as promised at the EGM & AGM, although the B777 & B744 fleet now have to work up to 850 hours instead of 800 hours.With productivity thrown in, that means the guys will get about 30 to 40% pay rise at an average of 60 hours a month.

On another note, the former exco known as Snake Whose Lan had missed 3 flights! With one of them (KUL-VIE) was delayed 22 hours, cause he wanted to attend the BBJ meeting!I definitely wouldn't like him to be my boss or the exco!Showing his true colours at last!Personal interest before anything else..........

Safe Flying!

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[squak7700]

Depends on which HORSE that you heard from.The horse that SPOKE says what i mention earlier....GIVE UP FIRST CLASS AND DEFINATELY NO MONETARY GAIN.Makes you wonder why an EGM should be call for again in the near future since the exco was given the mandate to sign and accept the MOU.Maybe....just maybe trying to sell to the members the idea of giving up first class,for whatever that the company is willing to give in return.

[squak7700]

The MAPA exco gave consent to
1. Increasing the FTL for widebody from 800 hours to 850
2. Operating flight to SYD and BNE to single crew operations
This two items are covered in the MOU.The reason they gave is in the interest of the company.Who gave the consent to the exco?Do the majority of the members agree to this changes?You may say that it's not convenient to hold an EGM just to get approval for petty items like this,but still this are items in the MOU.Just like the first class travel benefit,which is in the MOU,what is there to deter the exco from giving it up?.You don't need approval from the members too,if it's in the interest of the company.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Pilost,

you have previously accused me of being Nik's
brown nose boy. How wrong you are! I am non aligned to any of the so called camps, infact I just expect truth and justice for all.

As for the previous EXCO I would prefer to have them represent me anytime as opposed to the current one. As they delivered a significant improvement to the prevailing conditions of the day. As for the current gaggle they appear to have a hidden agenda of their own. The smell that something is not right is definatly in the air. Most pilots seem bemused to their true motives, It seems that they only represent a percentage of members not the pilot fraternity as a whole. I also believe that they have aspirations to management of their own, and would sell out the membership if they could procure a secure position for themselves. Unfortunatly for them, or fortunatly for the membership they are so useless nobody wants them in management as they have demonstrated their lack of ability in their capacity as MAPA EXCO. In fact the question the membership should be asking themselves. Is there anybody out there that would be honest and impartial and settle the contractual annomalies that exist throughout the pilot body in the airline. Seniority numbers, duty time limitations, Training allowances, Fleet diversity and operational hazard allowances, balance of expatriate numbers and conformality of expat contracts with regards to renumeration benifits and allowances to name a few. What is the AGENDA ?

Lastly I fail to see your reason for repeated attacks on Nik, except to say that you are extreemly jealous of his position and ability inclusive of his ability and popularity as Vice President MAPA. You seem intent on presenting only part of the facts and not the facts as a whole. Infact I have a feeling you maybe that Mercedes driving MAPA man. If you are than what a lousy job you have done thus far.

To all the members be aware and demand consultation en-mass before any item is signed sealed and delivered to you. Do not allow the EXCO to represent you blindly. I seriously believe that should they have a free hand the membership will be sold out.
Then it would be too late!! Remember, the power lever is a powerful device it can drasticly alter the fuel bill.

Think before you act...........

Sincerely Wooblah..................

[PILOST]

Wooblah...we meet again.Your second para amuses me, quote "I also believe that they have aspirations of management of their own".Congratulations, you have just described Snake Whose Lan & Pygmy! Hahahahaha!

Anyway Wooblah, if I was driving a Merc, I wouldn't be wasting my time here.YOU'RE definitely one of Snake's crony as his only friends are the expats.......The locals just avoid him nowadays cause they know his true colours.Question.... Can you hold a position in MAPA & also a management post?According to Snake he can!That was until the members voted them out! Popular my 4ss! So Wooblah, still not convinced? How does a chief pilot credibility stands when he makes our customers wait & the company loses hundreds of thousands of ringgit because of his own personal interest?I'm definitely not jealous of him because he always put his foot in his mouth.

Wooblah, this is not your war.Go back home if you want a say in politics.The expats are the ones to be blamed for accepting substandard contracts.We even had a few who acepted local terms! It all boils down to your colleagues grovelling for jobs with MAS when the world is your oyster!Or is it that you guys know that MAS is a great place to work for an expat even with reduced terms?

Lastly Wooblah, may I ask what were you doing during the great Aussie pilot strike of 90? I know it doesn't feel nice to be backstabbed by your own friends" the scabs" right?Same goes here.....so don't get involved in our catfight.At the end of the day, we're still Malaysians & we will bury the hatchet....sooner or later, but you will just remain an expat in our country.... & that's the TRUTH!

Or are you Snake Huzlan in a different skin in this forum?

For the non believers (including me), why don't we wait for the MOU to be printed & handed in our boxes before we crucify or congratulate the Exco for the 'services' that they have rendered.

Safe Flying.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 11 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 11 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 11 September 2000).]

[occidental]

Wooblah, you must be the only person in the pilot fraternity who will put his fate in Snake's hands. All you have to do is ask anyone in MAS about him and you'll get the true picture. There is no creature on earth which will stoop so low, lie so blatantly and yet be so in love with himself.

When the Malaysians bury the hatchet let's all hope it will land on snakes and pygmies.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Pilost,

Kurmitola says,

" Give me back the previous Exco...NOW !!! "

This speakes volumes and does not lend credence to your somewhat biased, jealous, neurotic and immature reply. Infact you seem to go of at a tangent to the issues at hand, blinded by your hatred and jealousy. You managed to throw crap over people you disliked and sidestep the questions posed in the thread.

This is a smoke screen designed by you to cover up your frustration, inadequacy and impotence. It shows your lack of maturity and positive initiative.

The fact that Kurmitola your apparent friend and ally has made the aforementioned statement is testament that not all pilots have your point of view. This leads me to believe that there will be greater numbers in the silent majority.

With regard to the pilots dispute in Australia. That is history, many mistakes were made but perhaps the greatest mistake was the membership following the AFAP ( MAPA ) blindly and without question. This was the greatest blunder. So pilost, you can only be immature and insulting. If you had any brains you would look into that pilots dispute and learn valuable lessons that are applicable to MAPA today.

Finally local or expat is not the issue the pertinent point is that we are all pilots, thus all should have equal terms. The contracts inclusive of the MoU should reflect uniformity and balance. Why, because we are part of an industry and industry sets averages and medians with respect to renumeration. With above average industry renumeration comes the ability to pick and choose because the upper market product is interested in the package available, therefore increased quality and that translates to above average profitability.

So pilost get your head out of the sand and shake off you parochial kampung mentality and get with it, the world is getting smaller so you will eventually be forced to think globally or become extinct and drown in you hatred and jealousy trapped by your inability to change and move ahead.

An open mind is a doorway to another world.

A catfight in a cathouse or a dogfight in the skies.


Wooblah................


[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 13 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 13 September 2000).]

[PILOST]

Oooooooh.....Wooblah, stick & stones may break my bones but words......don't hurt me a bit!

Don't let me start on the Oz strike of 1990.You have accused me of being a daddy's spoiled brat when I was actually an exchange student to Ozland in my schooling days.That shows how myopic are your views.Wooblah, have you ever heard of 'scabs', 'picket jumpers' & 'strike breakers' before?Some of the membership were not united & not resolute in their stand,thus the government working hand in hand with the airline companies broke their will piece by piece.Remeber the 'divide & conquer rule'?If you had a look recently in your stinking backyard, the dock workers in Oz got a beter worklife by successfully shutting down the port operations even when the government tried to intervene & introduce 'contract' workers.Hmmm...somewhat similiar to the intro of low exprienced pilots & using the RAAF to support the aviation industry to break the pilots spirits at that time.

I guess the same guys who are considered scabs by their brothers are now with us in MAS!Like I said you guys were grovelling to work with us when some of the other expats moved on to better offers.When Camel came in, most of you guys were smart enough to refuse his offer & moved to SQ (the ultimate snub!).For that,I respect those who took the hard decision.In the end the expats who stayed behind got a 'sweeter' deal.Scabs after all will look after their personal interest.The TRUTH HURTS doesn't it Wooblah?

Look, my beef with Snake Huzlan isn't personal.It's professional.Have a look at the Crewing Officers's report when the Snake missed his VIE flight that day.That's not the first flight that he missed in his career when he was appointed Chief Pilot Nobody (now Sales & Marketking).The VIE flight was the one that broke the camel's back.250+ pax were inconvenienced for 22 hours speaks volumes of himself.So don't go & pick up his balls now cause 'misery loves company'.BTW his blunders are eating into yours & my bloody bonus pay!You haven't even answered my issue on the AKL B73F fiasco Wooblah, or did the cat got your tongue?Sadly , maybe Old Ace or Thrust Reverser was right about this company.It's totally screwed up!

Last but not least Wooblah, how do you expect a better deal when you sell yourself short!Nobody put a gun on your head when you put your John Hancock on the dotted line!If you want more money it's definitely not with MAS!

Adieu!

Safe Flying
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[Caviar4me]

Kurmitola,

While all you guys in MAS (money already syphon) just can't get the facts right, your proud and hardworking EXCO has sign a 5 year CA, money in instalment, and first class travel well boys keep on draming. I must say I got out just in time while these Jurassic Captain try to teach these young Captain a thing or two. To all the loosers in MAS enjoy your sambal while I'll enjoy my Beluga Caviar and RM 42,000 a month. Cheers

[NCC-1701e]

So when is it that we will get our backdated pay and from when? I know there must be someone from the exco here somewhere.

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[occidental]

ditto

[Caviar4me]

MAPA EXCO have not given much info regarding the MofU. I guess when the mandate was given ......well hell it's tooo late morons. Any changes to the MofU must have the consent of the Members unless the members don't give a s***. You all deserve it.....MAPA boleh????

[kurmitola]

Guys..The reason I said something about wanting the previous Exco back does not have anything to do with my love for anyone there. Just that at least they came back to the members first before signing unlike these ones whom always says " dont worry guys, leave it all to us..no one will get a pay cut etc,etc " . These are worrying enuf for me. We are not talking about a paycut here my friends we are talking about current market value ie. an improvement to our present terms. Guess what we have now ? 5 years CA ? 22 hours delay...hmmm.. we are really short of pilots then and I think the phone lines were not working that day. Hey, by the way, why not do another of that famous LHR-KUL 3 man crew thing ? VIE is a lot nearer that LHR. I'm very sure the Exco will be happy to agree to that. So..Nik owns the BBJ nowadays eh ? Is he attending that meeting so that he'll make money for himself again or what ? Whats the pay like ? I'm just curious cos I saw that day quite a stream of assli**ers at his office volunteering to be on the BBJ ( some of whom were not saying the same thing behind Nik's back ). Or shall I join the fray ?

[Kaptin M]

If MAPA Exco didn't negotiate the current market value [replacement] of you guys, who to blame? You for electing them....or them...for not being smart enough - or having the balls - to re-alise it!!??

Vote with your feet, if you feel shafted. SQ is about 200 pilots short, Korean is still looking, as is Emirates.

The world is your Oyster!!

Selamat Jalan.

[Caviar4me]

MoU signed and the money?????Can't MAPA inform the members when and how much are the pilots getting. The 3 man crew ex LHR is proven to be very successful as MAPA was fully involve in it.One small problem how to sell it to the members.
And BBJ's office Well a lot of asslickers there, man you should see their tongues. Did hear a lot of metal noise jep back stabing is rampant. The BBJ should only be given to pilots that have serve on the B747-400. They have the skill and exposure reqiured.
So folks if any pilot have the latest MOU details please post it here so I can have a good laugh.......Selamat

[squak7700]

Why all the secrecy by MAPA?Why are they keeping quiet after the signing?With IT they can easily inform the members of the latest but they chose to remain quiet?
SHOCKING to be inform that the MOU will be for a duration of 5 years.This was definately not revealed to the members at the EGM.The EXCO now thinks that they know what is good for the company and the members.You have EXCO guys going around telling people what a great team this is and threatening,especially copilots,who voice their opinion against the MOU.
Heard that there are talks between EXCO and management of three man operations for most European sectors.ANY NEWS ON THIS?Won't be surprised if the EXCO agree to this,in due consideration for the welfare of the company which of course is the EXCO main priority,COMPANY WELFARE.