For Malaysian Airline Pilot ONLY

[OldAce]

Al-Ma unah (without the violence-yet) in our Midst


Intro

Let me tell you a little story before I go It's quite a long story so please bear with me. Please copy them and distribute them as much as you can before this forum gets clamped down. Your livelihood depends on it.

It goes back to the early 70's when the Airline was formed. There was this "religious" pilot Camel (joined MAS 1973) from Kelantan (probably have association with party PAS and member of ABIM* - that's the ex-DPM Anwar Ibrahim Islamic Youth Movement) who was very ambitious. One of his mission in life is to form an Islamic State in an organisation or Corporation.

*ABIM under Anwar Ibrahim(AI) had caused many headaches to the government in 1975 there were widespread student protest then for more Islamic Fundametalist power. AI was thrown in jail for 2 years. In 1981 when Mahathir came to power he was very smart, he took AI under his wings to keep an eye on him and his movement ABIM. AI duties were to uplift the moral values of the Malays. But AI kept a low profile as he had other motives- that is to form an Islamic State ultimately forming a colliation with party PAS to become the majority power in Malaysia. . In the mean time using the UMNO machinery he had nominated his Lieutenants to infiltrate all Government bodies and public Corporation (Camel is one of them) to take up important post. So that when the times comes when he becomes the PM all are ready for him to form the Islamic Renaissance…..in other word an Islamic State complete with Hudud Laws.

But Mahathir is not a stupid man. He throws AI in jailed for all the damages he had already caused. Most probably AI will rot in the lockup forever. Because if he comes out, that will be the end of Malaysia as we know it, if he comes to power.

The PM tested AI to stand for him as PM for 2 months when he went overseas in 1998. During his tenure when Mahathir was away, 3 Malay girls were hauled up by the religious Dept for participating in a beauty contest. The Universities were told to implement Islamic Studies as a subject to all non-muslim if they want to get their degree.

Camel

Now you ask me what Camel and his gang have got to do with all this. The above is the background to understand things better. I bet Camel and gang is peeing in their pants now.

In the 70's Camel make use of one senior Capt………(seniority No 3) as his protector. You know what he tells us later before he retired. Quote "Its like rearing a young crocodile, when he grows up he ate up his master." Unquote (the whole Old Guards were completely sacked from Flight Operation when Camel took over in 1993).

In the 80's he got the Chairman himself as his strongest cable, Tan Sri Aziz (a Kelantanese- they are all clannish). He became the Fleet Capt and Instructor after 3 months on the 737 bypassing his seniors in 1979. Every weekend all the Kelantanese will gather in each other house to decide on corporate issues (ignoring Managers from other Department that are not Kelantanese). All other pilots not in agreement or was not 'religious' enough were brutally dealt with by using Base Checks, Promotion and Rosters. By 1998 he became the Director of Safety and Security a post that is on par with the Director of Flight Operation (SVP now). By this time he got a group of followers mostly religious zealot Islamic pilots that had been formed by AI religious movement that put the fear to the Muslims that the end of the world is soon-so pray now or God will never forgive.

Towards the end of the 80's the Chairman Tan Sri Aziz was removed from office when staff complained that they lost half of their saving in MAS EPF when MAS share was shooting up to $12/- Then I remember loosing $50,000/- worth of share (it’s a lot of money then). The Chairman was using the MAS EPF to jack up MAS share for his own and his Kelantanese gang benefit ( you know buy at $6/- sell at $12/-). You can see his ill gotten wealth at Jalan Batai , Bukit Damansara.

In 1992 Camel was removed from his directorship for flouting airline regulation. He took off a full load of Jumbo to London where not other pilot wants to do it as it was against the MEL.
They should had hang his licence then. The OLD Gaurds were a forgiving group of people.

Now the interesting part begins.


THE RISE of the YOUNG TURKS.

In 1993 there was rumour of a change in top management. Camel shot out some poison pen letters against the Old Guard to the higher authorities and put the blame on another Captain Ghaflan to sidetrack his evil deed. He and his gang can stoop that low.

There was this Tan Sri (another Kelantanese) at the PM Dept. who made his link-up with Tajuddin Ramli. He produced impressive figures that he can save $250 million to the company when he becomes the DFO. That impressive figure is the ultimate cause of the low fuel fiasco over London that brought bad reputation to the Airline and caused so much misery among Jumbo pilots.

He became DFO in Sept. 1993 and the first thing he did was to sacked all his seniors in that department to be replaced by his Al-Ma unah like followers. Then he starts giving HELL to all the seniors he don't like till some of them left the company.
Pilots were flying 150 hours a month for many months while others hardly work 10 days. London and La was a 24 hours nightstop. Only his followers get promoted, seniority was thrown to the wind. Religious pressures were put unto the Muslim pilot. About 50 pilot left during these period.
Its not unknown that he had employed black magic (Jins and Setan) from Java (Surabaya for the bomoh and his sex shots) to put the fear to the rest of the pilot fraternity. Ask any old office worker at that time whether they want to work overtime in the office at night. Nobody dared use his office long after he left.

In 1996 after the overworked pilot crashed in Tawau with a lot of fatalities Camel was removed. But all his men are still left inside management until today waiting for the day that he would return. When Camel was in office he put out a policy that all management pilots couldn't be removed from office unless there is a clear-cut case against them. This is to protect his colleague. After that removal he was put to head MAS training school. There he created somemore havoc more as a result of his fanatical religious belief until the entire Instructors petition against him. There too he was removed. . Even when he was removed he was still enjoying all the perks and pay of a director plus staff car maybe until today.

In 1999 an attempt was made to reinstate him back. Tajuddin Ramli wants to sell all his shares as he do not want anymore headache. He wanted to sell it to SouthWest airline, there was a big fanfare in the papers then. In the end there was no takers. Along came this Kelantanese group with 2 billion, headed by the ex-KLSE Chairman and Tan Sri Aziz (yes the old chairman) to buy over TR shares. The PM says NO. If TR were to sell his share to this Kelantanese group, well you know who your MD or CEO will be- Camel.

A person to watch out for is Joseph. He had been Camel right hand man since 1985. He is in charge of Human Resource Dept. (this I don't understand what the hell a pilot doing in HR). The dirtiest man on earth, an achoholic, a hypocrite and is willing to take other Captain's wife for a one night stand for a favour.

Well the Al-Ma unah group in Flight Operation are bidding their time. At the rate you are bickering among yourself the faster this Al-Ma unah group will achieve their aims. Even though their methods is without violence the aim is the same. To make for a total Fundamentalist Islamic society. The consequent of which they are leaving trails of unhappy pilot all over the place.

Unite now, oppose them and throw these people out before it's too late.

"Politic and Religion had always been part and parcel of the Airline life in Malaysia. How can we ignore it and sweep it under the carpet."

[Kaptin M]

You've got a long memory, Old Ace, but perhaps not everyone sees past events through the same eyes as you do.

MAS had a reasonably stable history, until "The Purging" almost 10 years ago, when non-Bumi's were removed from office overnight.

Personally speaking, now that TR has skinned and gutted the Airline, I'd like to see him left "holding the baby" to see what excuses he come up with for the shareholders.

Everyone in MAS, knew he was doing it, including the PM, but no-one said STOP. Maybe they'll try to hang this one on Anwar as well, seeing the arsenic in the food was foiled.

[kurmitola]

Old Ace..
Firstly were you one of those removed from positions in 1994? If you were then you bl**dy well deserved it. The "Gang" that were removed were a whole bunch of crooks anyway now no doubt that makes two of them.Manipulating the roster and doing line checks ( and claiming the money) over 2 inflight movies to SYD etc..etc. If you want to tell something to others and satisfy your disgruntled feelings....my advise to you is get the facts right and dont exeggerate . By doing that maybe people like me and many others whom are prob junior to you in MAS will listened. Now dont talk about that same crap like" you joined much later than me ..what do you know.." anymore. I dont like this Camel either but I critised and confront him head on and in no cowardly and deceively manner like you. That makes me and a lot others suspicious. Maybe you are one of those clowns with that useless "midget" Dato' Kh**** before. ( been to the roulettes with him lately ? ) .
019- is another issue so does religion and race. By the way are you still in MAS ? I hope not.

[PILOST]

Old Ace is also known as Thrust Reverser in MAPA (Malaysia Airlines Pilot Association) forum website.Unfortunately due to his SPAMMING activities the moderator has decided to shut down the website PERMANENTLY.

The posting that he had put here is exactly the same one that he posted in MAPA forum which resulted in the spamming.

Due to his selfish attitude,the rest of the members are unable to access their own forum.I hope Capt PPrune & the moderators here will be very careful with this character.

I'm all for free speech but when you took away our rights to free speech by irresponsible Spamming activities then he's also no bigger or the better man than the persons he claim to be!

:mad:

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 31 July 2000).]

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 31 July 2000).]

[OldAce]

Kurmitola

From your tone I can tell that you are just one of the Taliban 'under cloak' send here to look whether the cat is out of the bag. It is.

Maybe also you are the one with the GRAND TOTAL 1500 Command hour on the 737 who were help by the Taliban organisation to be promoted straight to the B747-400 as commander. I know your kind acting as if you are "God gift to Aviation" My boy, it’s the clean track record like mine to get me where I am. You still got a long long way to go. Have you ever heard "A pilot is only as good as his last landing"

Because of your kind I had to wait 20 year as Captain to be promoted to the Jumbo otherwise is should had taken me 10 years. Knuckleheads like you takes 20 years to pass the ATPL (easy now use hand signals only.) Your Taliban kind had always put another expatriate pilot on the higher fleet to block my path and reserved the place for you. (MAS use a strict draconian
Seniority system)

Instead of sidetracking what I had initially posted, why did you not question my allegations if it is not true. I have documentary evidences to substantiate my allegations, what have you.

MAPA server was hauled down less than 24 hours ago because the Talibans cannot face the truth.

"Truth is the highway where even brave men fear to thread"


Kurmitola also said:

"By the way are you still in MAS? I hope not".

I know what you mean…..Camel and his kind had thrown at me multiple system failures on a single base check, which I had survived. My boy I'm trained by the RAF, in England, not like you in some backwater Philippines or Indonesia where you can get through by bribing.

"I critised and confront him head on and in no cowardly and deceively manner like you."

If you did you would be a DEAD bird by now.

[OldAce]

Pilost says:

"Due to his selfish attitude, the rest of the members are unable to access their own forum"

Aya, solly solly PilotLost I never do it again. Well your name aptly describes you as a pilot who due to the Taliban Islamic indoctrination cannot think clearly anymore..

My boy we are on an International forum now. Where truth means something. Not like our place where truth is censored. MAPA had already in its mind to censor the forum in the first place because so many truths are coming out.

Even then, a BBS like this can be set up in a few hours. You close one a thousand more will sprout up.

Go see Newsgroup soc.culture.malaysia:

My boy this is the Internet Age. You cannot hide truth anymore like the old feudal system of Asia.

My boy who took away your right to free speech, its your own Talibanic Organisation. Go ask them.

Free speech in Asia, my foot.


"Strip shows never got anyone killed, except drug and religion"

[Tom Tipper]

Whew!.....very emotive stuff. I don't work for MAS but it was a good read Old Ace. Airlines do tend tend to be political animals.

[PILOST]

The real truth is MAPA's forum is a BBS free site & as such the webmaster has decided to suspend the forum due to the SPAMMING activities of Old Ace aka Thrust Reverser, as he's unable to monitor the website to prevent further irresponsible SPAMMING of Old Ace.

It's good for Old Ace to bring the issues up but by SPAMMING the whole forum it will not solve anything.As such, I urge PPRuNe moderators to be careful with Old Ace as he might just pull another spamming trick as the MAPA'S website is now off the internet.

:mad:

[Goldwing2000]

Everyone knows about the problems at MAS notwithstanding the fact the airline is run by a bunch of half-wits Taliban rascist management types. Why is it that MAS is losing money faster then any airline in Asia when everyone else are expanding their operations after the recent recession? There must be and IS an underlying problem,and short of getting rid of the present structure(management),the country will get a bad name which won't help the tourist industry let alone the fare paying customers who won't travel on MAS.
Pilost,All you seem worried about is Spamming from Old Ace.Well,**** that,he's actually come out telling us some home grown truth which none of you have the bloody balls to do and as for Kurmitola confronting the camel head on,let's just say that instead of flying the plane he would have ended up cleaning the lavatories!
Politics and businesses are heavily intertwined in Malaysian society with bribes and 'who-you-know' prevalent so much so that in Mas's case,the failure of one will be the detriment of the other!! :mad:

[kurmitola]

Oldie..facts ? Yes I'd love to hear facts and evidence as well. I wasn't trained in Luzon neither in Java but down south. The fact fact ( ??? ) that you were trained in the RAF does not make you any better than us.If I got my command in this company in under 10 years then thats good for me .Surprising that you did not retire as a two or three star general. Any nice thing to say about the RMAF ? Or may be its another talibanic organization... If yes I believe our neighbour across the causeway would love to have you....an asset to their organization. D*mn you took twenty long years to get to Jumbo command. My friends like Maggot and the gang tool only 5 years plus to get 744 cmd after passing their ATPL. What draconian seniority system? When you are not affected like a lot of your ex-colleaques then you dont give a #*&t right? There are a few of them whom at least went and fought for it and these are the people whom I take my hats off no doubt they have left the company and quietly as well.
My wooblah old mate...stay where you are cos' I am just guessing that you've got no where else to go just like our ace friend. I think I've listened to this kind of conversation before...hmmm...maybe we have flown together.Old Ace...bet you dont say the same when flying with most first officers ( esp..bumi ones ) cos' I know you dont have the guts thats why you go around spamming all the sites which is being set up for good cause like this one. Thanks for your warning Pilost!!!

[OldAce]

Thanks Guy for your moral support. I thought I will die fighting this alone.

You all really light up my life.

Mor to come if only Capt.Pprune will bear with me.

[kurmitola]

BTW to those whom are still interested to listen to my mate Oldie..( whom I guess must be getting old and running a short memory.) please challenge these facts old ace cos you have got all your very wrong and that ca be constituted as LYING !!!!!!
1. The TWU F50 crash was in 1995 ( as oppose to your 1996 !)......1st LIE!
2. Nobody left immediately after Camel came in as SVP except 3 or 4 . One of whom came back cos' had enough of Kimchi in Asiana.....2nd LIE!!!
3. He ( Camel) and gang took office in late 1994!! What ? SEPT 1993 did you say ?....3rd LIE!!!!!
4. Ever remember hours ( criteria) reduction during Khyeerie's time ? Need some refresher ? Ask his son....4th LIE!!!!
there are 5th and 6th and 7th and 8th LIES and thats all facts.
For your info I passed my ATPL after 4 years in the Airline unlike Batam and the fisherman. AND I DONT THINK YOU ARE ONE OF THE PILOTS IN MH TODAY>!!!!!GO FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO AND BRING WOOBLAH ALONG WILL YOU!!

[OldAce]

Pilost says:

"The real truth is MAPA's forum is a BBS free site & as such the webmaster has decided to suspend the forum due to the SPAMMING activities of Old Ace "

That's just an excuse by the Taliban to hide the truth.

I only posted on the MAPA forum maybe about 15 letters each about 5 pages long. Its in MS Word format. That shouldn't take more than 500k in total.

Pilost why are you still 'lost' Why would I want to bring the MAPA server down. I was putting in facts that all of you can't contradict. I want to continue the debate in MAPA forum. So you know what your Taliban Chief did, pull the plug. So I got no choice but to bring it up to the International forum where things are more fairer.

Are you being send by the Taliban to whine to Capt Pprune to close this thread down too?

"Whine, whine ,whine why don't anybody do sex anymore"

[exeng]

Fun place to work then M.A.S.!! Passengered KUL to Penang and back last year on my Hols, I don't think I'll risk it again.

[tallyho92]

Kurmitola, why don`t you save the BS for
the fanatical twits in MAS, the problem
is not enough people know the chaos in
MAS, the airline has well and truly been
ruined since TR took over and I`m sure
the PM knows thats all too well as with
the problem with the zealots in the country.
They are not only swelling in numbers but
in desperation (need I remind you what
happened in Grik a month ago)

So, OldAce`s chronology of events are
slightly off, SO, big blooming deal the
essence is correct. I don`t see any mention
about how that irresponsible cowboy Camel,
who has no business flying let alone
working for an airline,how he took a 744 from KUL to LHR when clearly a number of MEL
items were deficient, even after the commander of the said A/C including the FO
point blankly refused on the grounds of
safety.

Don`t boast about your ATPL, you are
probably one of the many in MAS who only
passed because you were allowed to take
one subject at a time, nothing to be proud
about, unlike the rest of us who sat for
it at Gatwick House


------------------
you get what you put in,
and people get what they
deserve

[This message has been edited by tallyho92 (edited 01 August 2000).]

[This message has been edited by tallyho92 (edited 01 August 2000).]

[kurmitola]

One subject at the time ? Now thats LIE number...hmmm....I've given up counting cos' nobody are allowed to take one subject at a time. You sit all at once first and I passed on 1st attempt. Unlike those who needed to go to company's ATPL course at the SIM building I studied on my own so does a lot of my buddies. As I have said in my earlier posting 019- is another thing. Some people still live in past glory and hasn't moved on. BTW has anybody imposed their values or your so called fanatical belief on any of you ? If they did what have you done about it ? I myself never encountered such incident and if I ever did I know exactly what to do. Asked that Big Ham#@**deen..he will remember during Camel's time that someone very junior ( by your standard..) dared the company to DI me if they think I'm in the wrong. That was very well during Camel's time. Bout that MEL thing...why dont they sack him ? He was nobody then. But some of you guys went and asked for extention beyond 55 and now bitching. Because of you guys..a lot of my seniors were held back for the 744. You yourselves are to be blamed and deserving lot you are as well. Go and get a life man and probably better to put some input to the MAPA exco in their ongoing negotiations....so that you'll retire a few riggits richer and if thats futile with your training in the RAF and sitting your ATPL in Gatwick house CAL..SQ...KAL...etc..etc are still recruiting.When Camel was removed from office I had this urge to just go up to him and say " you bloody deserve it you pr*&# ( kote) and " how does it feel ?" but I dont stoop that low cos that will make two a**h*&# instead of one. Maybe when I'm old like you guys and find nothing better to do I'll......maybe just maybe.

[tasie devil]

Well-well, what have we got here...seems like kurmitola just couldn't stop caressing balls, or is he just guzzling sperm. Good on ya mate! keep licking...anymore around like ye? Guys he's good for employment. Anyone wants to hire a pilot who did he's training down south (singapore?) who will protect and defend a helpless animal (camel), not forgetting with ATPL at one go...man either you're hot **** or just a good old piece of **** .
C'mon what the rest are saying has got some truth in it. Camel and gang has done its damage. So lets face it..old ace, goldwings2000,wooblah and tallyho92 it's good to see there's still those rebels out there.
Old Ace, keep it coming.

[kurmitola]

well..well..its gud to see someone new joining the fray.Firstly tasie boy..I did my training in Oz. And I hate Camel as much as others do. Pse refer to my earlier thread > I'm all for change but dont tell lies. Get the facts right first and do your homework then come out and fight. You'll be surprised at how fast you can shut others up when you hav all the facts..its spelled FACTS!! Comprande ? Not like some of us whine..whine..whine..bitch 3X ( sorry old mate ..hav to borrow yours ..thanks). I dont do things that you wud thought that I do cos in MH as you know you'll go very far doing that. I'm not anywhere near that. Know the diff between those people we hav seen in the company before ? Look at Iz*&m Issmile..Lan Mahmood..Rudy ..Mat ..Seththh..Azh**%din etc.etc. They dont bitch like Old ace and they are excellent people to work with too and MH dont deserve people like this cos they ( MH ) does not seems to value assets. Its lucky that the likes of old ace and the rest of the people who shared his views are not representing UMNO..MIC..MCA..etc..or else our people in Malaysia will continue to suffer. ( typical of politicians..own fault blame other people and tell lies when you dont hav the facts right in the first place). Beware world ..Not all MH pilots are like them. Ireally hope something gud will happen for the pilots cos' our friends in KAL / CAL/SQ/EK etc cant wait to cry.

[OldAce]

Kurmitola says:

"For your info I passed my ATPL after 4 years in the Airline"
"I wasn't trained in Luzon neither in Java but down south."

Aha is that you "Jew"

On the subject of ATPL in Malaysia, it had always been the bone of contention that I want to bring up since you reminded me.

In the 70's and 80's era, those who did their training in Australia have an advantage over those trained elsewhere. They get the chance as cadet to sit for the Australian ATPL, one subject at a time for a one-year period. Unlike the rest where they have to do the full British ATPL Well in the 90's you hear some candidates boasting they passed by hand signals.

The British ATPL then is subjective….where you have to write the answers, plot the navigation chart and draw in weather forecast diagrams. Many MAS candidates did not make it. In total only about 25% of the candidates from MAS passed.* The candidate have to do a grueling 7 subjects in a 2 days period each subject taking 3 hours. And they have to pass at least 5 subjects in one sitting otherwise they have to do all the 7 papers all over again. Ghosh sat for 20 times and never made it. If they sat for the ATPL 3 time and cannot make it they be banned for futher sitting for 3 years. The Malaysian ATPL was recognised by the British Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) as all papers were sent to England for marking. By 1976 onwards the Malaysian ATPL was no longer recognised by CAA even though the papers were still being marked in England.**more on this later.

The present one in the 90's is just ABCD. That is why 95% of the candidate passed. And don't forget they can use hands signals.

Coming to the Australian trained guys when they come back home they only have to sit for 2 papers, Navigation Plotting and Met Practical. Easy stuff.

In the course of my airline career I can tell by talking to the Captain on aviation matter whether they got their ATPL by hard work or had 'paid for it'.

So Kurmitola what you had just said on how you got your ATPL are just craps.

[PILOST]

Old Ace,

You're entitled to your opinion as much as I do.How hard you try to justify yourself, you have effectively swamped the BBS.As the moderator is just doing a favour to ALL the MAS pilots,it's sad that you had successfully swamped the Forum.

To add insult to injury you personally attacked the moderator even though he gave you a platform to voice your thoughts.Like PPrune, the webmaster has the right to edit,delete or censor a post as he deems fit.You agreed to the said restrictions when you registered as a user & you ABUSED it!As the moderator isn't being paid to do the job, like any normal guy,he will abandon the site.

For the uninformed, Malaysia Airlines Pilot's Association (MAPA) has set up a website for the benefit of their members.This includes the BBS forum where members are able to voice their opinion freely under the cloak of anonimity.As usual there are the standard rules on 'netiquette' so as to avoid legal suits which did happen before.As the moderator was running a one man show & has sole responsibility,he will have to bear the consequences, as he doesn't have the convenience of disguising his handle.

With that I hope the readers will be able to judge & understand what's happenning here.As the MAPA forum is shutdown, this is the next available avenue for us to keep up with the aviation industry & discuss on company matters.Hopefully Capt PPRuNE will monitor this topic to avoid further SPAMMING of Old Ace.

IMHO,what Old Ace has done is very selfish indeed.He said his piece but the whole MAPA membership has lost their voice...................

:mad:

[OldAce]

Guys do you notice something fishy about this fella Kurmitola. It sounds similar to err like Ayathola .

Watch out guys he is none other than Sheikh AL-JEW the Camel left-hand man. A real living breathing Taliban under cloak.. Camel had send him here with the 'Jin' to help him dispute all accusations thrown on their Al-Maunah organisation. Eeeeiii I'm beginning to feel so afraid. alleady.

These Talibans had been feed lies all their life. So telling another 1000 lies makes no difference to them.

Kurmitola if you are a true muslim you know what is the penalty for telling lies. You will just be 1,000,000 points futher away from the virgin lady waiting for you to fornicate in your seventh heaven.

[PILOST]

Personally I have also been critical of MAS but I don't get personal.

FYI Capt Wooblah, the Malaysian DCA had released the whole Accident Investigators report & yes, complete with the CVR & FDR report.This was released in 1997 (if my memory serves me correctly).It's an interesting report & although the late Captain (God rest his soul) was blamed, the company was also penalised for the mangement's authoritarian (or as Old Ace would say TALIBAN) regime.This was highly evident when the late Commander was 'counselled' for allegedly 'extending' his block time regularly prior to the ill fated flight.May the souls of the crew & pax who perished rest in peace....... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif


Undeniably, MAS is going through a rough time now & hopefully with the recent approval of direct foreign ownership of up to 45% (subject to shareholders approval) this situation will be addressed.If Qantas & Swissair had expressed interest in MAS, I guess MAS has a lot of potential.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

Safe Flying.

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 01 August 2000).]

[OldAce]

For those who are giving me moral support I have this wish for you:

May you be in the Hanging Garden of Babylon with 1000 virgins of many nationalities dancing at your feet.


For those Talibans especially the one that lied:

May you have to kiss the ass of a 1000 camels while it is excreting.

[OldAce]

Pilost says:

"recent approval of direct foreign ownership of up to 45% (subject to shareholders approval) this situation will be addressed. If Qantas & Swissair had expressed interest in MAS, I guess MAS has a lot of potential"


Daim and Conglomerates holds 30+10% Tajuddin Ramli 30% Brunei Sultan 10% and the rest are shareholders.

Qantas & Swissair people will come for the hospitality and the free holiday all paid for curtsey of MAS. I bet my bottom dollars they will not bite even if you give them 70%. a controlling stake.

What does the company have as far as asset goes, almost nothing, deficit aplenty. One asset they have is the growing numbers of Talibans. It is not a viable organisation anymore. Just like SouthWest Airline these people will come, enjoy the wine, food and women and then go. Pocheek…nothing.

[kurmitola]

Aha..! wobbly says " leave racist & religious sentiment out of the flt deck". Very true but wud be of more use if you direct them to yer old mate. Thats the very reason I responded to his brainless posting.Because he was so disgruntled and jealous of our career progression that is. Just because you flew the 707s or AB3 before doesnt mean that all of us have to do the same unless you want me to go to the meuseum.
Cannot get into EVA..CAL..SQ..so sit back and bicth about other peoples' better developement than theirs. HA...ha...ha... nasib lah lu !! Some of my seniors got their command in under 9 years...got anything to say ? Guys...these are the same poeple who will bitch about c/crew getting better deal and guess what ? the same gang who sold the F/o's first class travel not long ago. at that time they were not affected what...so..why do they care. I think you guys better retire now or not ask for any extension beyond 55. My seniors cant wait for their 744 CMD in under 15 years since they walked out of flying school.
ME ? Neither Taliban nor Al-Maunah ...just mere facts sticking guy . BTW you havent answered all the lies yet ..Chronology of event slightly out ? Case dismissed on technical ground . Even in the British Court ( where you took your ATPL ). Loved to fly the Dart Herald but cud not find one except their former pilots whom were left behind to punish all of us.

[v1vr]

You guys are all dangerously mentally unstable.
With all the intense emotional stuff built up inside, do you really consider yourselves to be safe pilots.... Really ????
I'm glad I'm an Aussie, the best @@@fights that happen here between pilots is the debate about which is best Boeing or Scarebus,,,(sorry Airbus) and whats the greatest game,,,AFL or League.
People with such deep emotional problems as you guys should not be in the air, especially in the same airspace and worse still,,,,,the same flight deck.
My God, think of the consequences of your debate happening in a cockpit.
For the sake of your PAX,,, stay on the ground untill you are more emotionally stable.

[Le Pilot]

ViVr

Pull your head in mate.

Take your own emotion and go pick a fight on the Dunnunder forum.
This isn't your problem.
Go back to white-anting Impulse, downgrading QF maintenance and sucking up to Virgin.

From a bloke who owes a lot to the old MAS
and Malaysia.

[OldAce]

Kurmitola says:

"Aha..! Wobbly says " leave racist & religious sentiment out of the flt deck".


Hiya, why you so bodoh one, he was referring to you, your Taliban kind.

New Malay Co-pilot is rostered to fly with the Talabanic Captain so that they be properly indoctrinated to the Taliban Islamic way. If they go out with the rest of the crew to the Discos for enjoyment, they will get hell in the cockpit. Even Karaoke is not allowed even if they drink Coke only (there was a circular on this). Well if you drink alcohol you get Double Hell in the cockpit. Camel had his spies to report these muslim pilot to him as far back as the early 80's.

You can see all these young Taliban Co-pilot and Captain, they spot a goatee kind of beards.

"Karaoke never kills people only drug and religion do"


Kurmitola lied:

"the same gang who sold the F/o's first class travel not long ago"

The F/O First Class Travel was sold out in 1995 under the Camel Regime.
You can con this to the new F/O while you are in the cockpit with him, but we all know better.

You know why lies just come out when you open your mouth, is it because your Talibans teachers had been lying to you all this while.


Kurmitola also lied again:

"ME ? Neither Taliban nor Al-Maunah ...just mere facts sticking guy"

YOU are the biggest LIAR east of the Suez Canal. Past ATPL in one sitting, kiss my foot.

[v1vr]

Le Pilot
Sorry to upset you.
You guys are really serious aren't you.
I will take your advice and do all the things you suggested I do, but when I do it won't be too serious, because down here we have the ability to dissagree with each other and still be mates, and we don't take our dissagreements airborn with us. We are level headed professional pilots who don't let deep seated emotional problems jepardise safety.
Anyhow I am sorry to upset you, I didn't realise you were such a touchy bunch.
Very sad indeed.
Good luck.

[Goldwing2000]

V1vr, It's not about being too emotional or touchy but about the poor running of MAS by a group of religious fanatic dim-wits purporting to understand the workings of the airline industry which quite clearly shows a serious flaw in the intellectual departement coupled with their draconian religious beliefs. I suggest these half-wits emigrate to the east coast and join the PAS party where they can start their own airline serving coke and peanuts or better still try their hand with the zealots in the Mollucan islands.
Kurmitola you couldn't pass water in one go let alone the ATPL so let's not have anymore BS. Without throwing water on Old Ace's parade,it's the likes of you dickheads that started cheating which gave MAS a bad name and the CAA for not issuing the equivalent of their licence. You are all so frightened of the truth coming out for the whole world to see that your responses and behaviour are clouded by your own stupidity.

--------------
If all else fails then,funk it!

[tallyho92]

VERY, VERY WELL PUT Goldwing2000
my exact sentiments, most them are
a bunch of clowns parading as pilots,
they can all p*ss off to the east
coast and fly on their magic carpet
there.

As captain wooblah so eloquently puts
it "empty vessel" and the empty vessel
makes the most noise, Pilost and Kurmitola
both of you are coming in LOUD & CLEAR

[kurmitola]

Hah ! Why ? Jealous ah ....Gw..tallyho ( you fighter pilot before aa?..fly what Tebuan ? 240 kts ?). Your support very valuable one. I like people whom argued objectively and based on facts. But when you get all the facts wrong ....susahlah sikit looo.Old ace said the F/Os' first class was sold out during that P**#@K's time.ot any previous MOU ? Never mind ...MAPA office ada. Bring reading glasses for old ace as well okay and see for youself and tell everybody when..thereafter no more lies okay and I'll listen to you. Otherwise I'll ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz.
Gee...this thought about retirement is really affecting my friend's brains and eyesight. I'll accompany him to Meseum Negara to cherish his old days flying Twin Pioneer and if you need a wheelchair...call traffic on the radio kay !

[Gladiator]

Black majic! Scary stuff. And I thought SIA was bad.

[PILOST]

Obviously I have been sentenced before the hearing.Hey!Don't shoot the messenger, just because I stated some irrefutable facts!GW2000,Old Ace & Tallyho you have been successfully indoctrinated by the M'sian govt.You have put me on a stake & let me out to die even before rebutting my facts!

The FACTS are:
i)The first class for F/O's were sold out during the turbanless singh presidency era in1992.The DFO at that time was D.K.
ii)The AI's report on the TWU crash is available for public viewing at the DCA's office.You may also purchase a copy if you desire.It's a no holds barred report & even the DCA was not spared by the AI.
iii)Old Ace sucessfully swamped (spammed) the MAPA"s BBS forum.Due to the ALLEGATIONS put across by Old Ace are unsubstantiated nor proven without a reasonable doubt & libellious in nature, the moderator (a normal line pilot) had to shutdown the BBS to avoid any litigations or legal complications.So,... is it fair for someone to agree to the moderator's rules on netiquette & then reneged on it for their own convenience?Thereby successfully shutting out the rest of the pilots voice!Mind you, the BBS was an outlet for the pilots to let out their grouses FREELY!That is until Old Ace spammed it!
iv)ATPL exams conducted in M'sia are monitored by CAA UK through DCA M'sia.Every candidate will be given a different set of question papers.So, the likelihood of cheating will be negated by the different set of papers.Fingers or hands signals just wont work.

Gentlemen, I'm just exercising my rights for free speech.If you put me down,then you're unable to engage me in an intellectual & emotion free arguments.As such I will not carry on with this windup, except when I feel that some facts are misrepresented.

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 02 August 2000).]

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 02 August 2000).]

[OldAce]

Pilost once again talk through his a..se h..le :

"The first class for F/O's were sold out during the turbanless singh presidency era in1992"

If the turbanless Singh was to do that at that time he will not be turbanless anymore as all the senior Co-pilot(more senior than him in the airline would had got together and crack his head.
It was sold out together with the Annual Leave (reduced from 42 days to 32 days) during the Camel era in 1995. This was one of the cost cutting measures that Camel promised TR (the CEO) if he were to be in power.

"Old Ace successfully swamped (spammed) the MAPA"s BBS forum"

I'm going to say this one last time. Mapa BBS erased 3 of my contributions.

i) On Jetlag can cause memory loss- article by British doctors
ii) Low fuel over London-which you can read here
iii) Taliban in our midst-also here

The intolerant Taliban or the Al-Maunah in Malaysia had raided an army camp recently securing hundred of weapons. Their aim to start an illegal Islamic revolution to take over the legally elected government together with other Fanatic Islamic groups waiting in the wings. But luckily the western open minded and tolerant govt. had managed to overcome this problem.

I'm here to wipe out the like of the Taliban in MAS and cyberspace.

By the way Pilost is that all you got. You keep repeating this 5 times already, I'm getting sick and bored. You promised me an intellectual debate!!!

"ATPL exams conducted in M'sia are monitored by CAA UK through DCA M'sia"

Maybe no more identical paper this year, what really happened in the 90's. Were the CAA examiners here personally to conduct the exams?

Let me quote Goldwing2000:

"Politics and businesses are heavily intertwined in Malaysian society with bribes and 'who-you-know' prevalent so much so that in MAS's case, the failure of one will be the detriment of the other!!"



[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 03 August 2000).]

[kurmitola]

Pilost.. got time for golf this weekend ? Lets not waste more time with these *##ho*@es one of whom has definitely gone into memory lapse..kesian.. sudah tua ba...On the way we probably can stop by his house to give him a lift to Museum Negara to visit his former a/c the twin pioneer. I forgot to say that the MOU does not apply to him anymore cos past 55. Bet you he'll be begging for extension like his friends whom were booted out in 94. Gladiator...imagine this guy in the employment of your former employer in those days when you were there and doing 320 to LHR ....eeeeeiii...Now another memory test for my " uncle " ace..when was that low fuel incident again ? during whose time you said ? That jet lag thing you brought up in the BBS ...you were one of the patient suffering from it. Better retire now if havent done that already and I'll get some help from the Ex sevices Assc okay...!

[OldAce]

Obviously we all know who is suffering from memory lapses here by going through the thread.

Aha I see you play golf too kurmitola. I hope your handicap is not as erratic as your writing. I will not be around too this weekend as I'm off to Phuket for a round of golf. I like to invite you but on second thought you can't go there as there be too many girls running around naked on the beach. And all Talibans cannot afford to be caught at "sinner's place". Schuck there goes my chance to give you a bashing. Anyway I'll be enjoying my golf with some nice chicks as my caddy. Eat your heart out.

[Goldwing2000]

Enjoy your golf Old Ace and say hello to some of the nice ladies for me while you're swinging your stuff. :) It's a shame these Taliban misfits don't seem to know how to enjoy themselves,I suppose that leaves more beer and enjoyment for yours truly.:P
Talking about golf and handicap....yeah that reminds me, Kurmitola,he's got one big handicap, his brain. He never engages it before he opens his mouth.

---------------
While in Phuket if all else fails then, funk it! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[kurmitola]

Sulat kabar lama ( tua )...ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz. Off looking for a Dart Herald to fly......
Is midget going with you buddy ? I heard they provide Golf clubs yang pendek one as well.....dont forget to bring some Viagra..kay!!!

[OldAce]

Coming to their Taliban leader the Ayatollah aka Camel. I got one breaking news. I just meet one of his old classmates who were with him when he was a student in Royal Military College in the Boy's Wing in 1968.

With his kampong religious attitude he got problems with his seniors. One night they gang up and sodomised him. That is why until today he is brained damaged and could't stand any senior who opposes him. That explained all his paranoid behaviors like Freud says.

Have you seen the leader of the monkey packs sodomising all the monkeys in National Geographic, to show who is the boss. This is what happened here. So kurmitola and Pilost how was it, nice?

These pack of people (or shall I say monkeys) should be hauled up by the religious department and send to the same lock up as the Ex-Deputy Prime Minister where they can enjoy sodomy among themselves

[occidental]

This is unbelievable ...... the mentality anyway.

[OldAce]

Thanks Capt.Pprune for bearing with me.

God saves the Queen.

Up the Union Jack.

There are still people in Malaysia who appreciate what the British had done for our country contrary to what the Taliban may say. They left a good Administration, a good Legal system good Governance etc etc without which all of us would still be swinging from tree to tree.

Thanks.


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 03 August 2000).]

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Gentlemen Gentlemen, It's time for a reality check. Look outside the cockpit window.
V1 Vr is absolutely right " You guys are seriously mentally unstable. This conversation has degenerated to a totally childish and immature level. Kurmitola and gang, you guys have forgotten the first rules of pilotage. Identify the problem, recognise the problem and rectify the problem. But, you guys are all really in a state of denial, passing the buck back and forth. Can't you stop for a minute, grow up and work together to improve all aspects that are not condusive to a safe, stress free and profitable environment. After all is'nt team work the essence of multi crew operation. Therefore can't you put aside your differences and stop bitching about the past and work toward a better future as this can be changed but the past remains, unchangeable. The essence of an airline is the flight crews, engineering, and cabin crews, the rest are just hangers on. Why then don't you make use of the assets you have in hand to change the current situation.
I am an old bloke and on the way out, analog or digital does'nt bother me one way or the other, neither does aircraft type or operation. I just enjoy aviation, always have, as far back as I can remember and always will. Why put down the others, for there are many different types of aviators from military, fire bombers, crop dusters, flying doctors the list goes on and on. These pilots are all professionals, hard working and skilled in their fields of operation. How do you compare with the cream of these people? How competent are you when compared to the best, Why are you not striving to achieve the best in actions and deeds. That's what real men in the real world do to introduce change for the better. Not childish schoolyard rabble. You are lucky, 250 hrs out of flying school to right seat 737-400, command at 28 years of age, I for one am happy for you, thats not the issue, what is, is, where are you going. Backwards or forwards, meaning back stabbing, under cutting, vicious, agressive move for SELF ACHIEVEMENT, or ESPIRIT De CORPS, team orientated, honourable TEAM ACHIEVEMENT.
I too was caught up in the immaturity here, but V1Vr, Goldwing, TallyHO and EX ENG made me see the light, why go down a level when you can go up! If you do work as a team and progress I am sure you will find Old Ace and company as willing allies. All must come to the party to make improvements to MAS successful. MOVE FOREWARD NOT BACKWARD.
Sincerely, Wooblah..............

[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 04 August 2000).]

[kurmitola]

Capt Wooblah..Finally I'm glad I'm seeing something very objective and intellectually pleasing to discuss. Thank You. Can you imagine a guy who claims to be trained by the RAF starting a thread like that ? If thats not disgruntled I dont really know what other terms I can possibly use. In the first place I dont think he is one of MH pilots anyway ( maybe one whom was sacked before or not given extension ).Thanks again wooblah and hopefully we can go on having intellectual discussion in the future. As you see not everybody has a career progression like me and the rest....at least you are happy for us . Very professional attitude ..dont you agree Pilost ?

[PILOST]

Obviously this thread is a wind up from Old Ace.Why, you may ask?

i)He had quoted the lost of first class for F/O's during Camel's era.If he claims to be the old guard with MAS then he would have known that the loss of privilige was in 1992 period!I remembered well, cause my co-pilots were bitching about it throughout my flight!I'm not a fan of Camel or the Al-Maunah but those are the facts!

ii)Old Ace was pissed that his postings were deleted from MAPA's BBS.Obviously you didn't remember signing the agreement conditions on registering with the BBS.You didn't like the webmasters rules, so you decided to SPAM IT!Anyway, if you remembered, the website wasn't available from time to time due to the host site's technical faults,just like PPRuNe.That in turn causes some threads to dissappear. You had your say, so let us have ours!

iii)I do believe that Old Ace has lost touch with current examination standards.As many are all aware now, CAA papers are not replicated for the candidates in the same examination hall.Even the answers are not the same order!This has been going on since they introduced objective questions & answers papers, not just recently!

The reason why I keep repeating my points is because Old Ace refuses to accept certain facts (obvious signs of dementia)

My lord, I rest my case.

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 06 August 2000).]

[residualvolts]

Lets have MAS what it used to be back in the 1980. It looks like MAS is becoming a plural society which is not what we want. Get rid of all the bad hats that r trying to do this. You know who I mean.

[Goldwing2000]

That is what everyone's been saying for a very long time. Nepotism and croynism has played such a part that this has lead to MAS's downfall when fundamentally the airline,loadwise is doing very well. The Govt should instigate an action plan so that the scoundrels at the top should all be booted out.
Pilost you're like a bloody broken record with it's needle stuck in the groove with no hope of it ever going anywhere! Some of your points may be correct but as to Old Ace losing touch with the examinations standards I think it is you that have lost touch. It was a dammside harder examination with negative marking then now, that is why the passing mark was lower. You never seem to mention why the CAA do not recognise the Malaysian licence anymore,could it be because that a bunch of dim wits Mas pilots started what they thought was a good trend in CHEATING. Subsequently the priviledges were withdrawn and most of the candidates ended failing and the one exam at a time procedure was implemented. Please don't tell us next that the present management is adequate when everyone including the public know otherwise. Get your head out of the sand and start looking around, you'll never know, you might end up learning something in the real world! :rolleyes:

----------------
If you do what you always do, you get what you always got!

[Mr A Tis]

Couldn't agree more with every word of v1vr !!
Cancel my holiday to KUL please......

[Cream Crackered]

As a pilot for a "western airline" I am very discouraged to read this thread!

As always, there are two sides to every story. But the way in which both sides have been getting their daggers out on this subject leaves me very worried about the psychological state of those MAS pilots contributing to this subject. So much so that I have decided never to travel on your airline!!

If you can't sort things out intelligently and amicably on this forum, then god help you if the shi* hits the fan on the flight deck.

There's no room for people like you in aviation.

[Algol]

If you are a pilot for a western airline, don't bother looking for staff concessions anyhow.
They treat their staff like **** ...and you 2.

[titan]

WELCOME TO ASIA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Slasher]

You MAS guys should realise that the world can read everything you post here. Its not just pilots who read it but western journos, your passengers as well as any potential ones, other airline managements as well as your own.
Talk of sodomy and religious fanaticism does nothing except make you appear like a bunch of imature children who do not think of the consequences of what is written. The worlds pilots are laughing at you and the worlds passengers are rethinking wether MAS is a safe carrier. There is absoluteley no doubt journos are bookmarking this thread for future use should MAS have another accident. For a start you should all read the big red warning paragraph at the bottom.
Calling this thread "For Malaysian Airline Pilot ONLY" might work in Malaysia but here in PPRuNe its the real world gentlemen. Every thread and post is open game. I would suggest you contact Danny and request an AIRLINE SPECIFIC PRIVATE FORUM for MAS pilots on PPRuNe if your own pilot forum has been shutdown.
I seriousley doubt wether the opinions stated on this thread is representative of the majority of MAS pilots. Ive emailed a couple of MAS locals I know who inform me its only the rowdy few who make the most noise.
Its strange your willing to post the most embarassing material (like this thread) and in the process lose real face in front of your peers around the globe. Yet when it comes to MAS incidents that we could all learn lessons from (such as the 777 engine oil incident and the events leading up to it) you all go quiet because you think it makes you look bad! Screwed up set of prioritys to me.

[MASystem]

Why all this?

I myself was about to post a similar thread as Slasher's .
Good points Slasher. I hope that can enlighten a few minds.
This whole thread is akin to digging one's own grave, realise this.

[Ham Phisted]

slasher,

You'll get yourself a reputation if you post more common-sense remarks like that above. Get yourself back to JB, quick, before anyone notices.

[Goldwing2000]

Slasher you should preach what you say and not what you do!!! :rolleyes: I agree with the gist of your story but people have the right to know and for example the fuel incident in London was plastered in The Sunday Times whereas MAS profit figures in the Straits Times. No-one likes to shoot himself in the foot but change can only be iniated when enough people make the right noises and in Malaysia we all know how difficult that can be,something akin to Allah moving mountains!!!!
Don't take for granted that people are fools cos if that's the case then no-one would be travelling on SQ after all the stories and posts thats appeared on pprune over the last few months.Give the public more credit and if you read my earlier post on this topic then you would know that I said "if MAS suffers then Malaysia would suffer" and no-one wants that to happen. As I've said to Pilost, no point hiding your head in the sand,pprune's here for all to see and for all to participate whether one likes it or not!!

----------------
If you do what you always do, you get what you always got!

[Algol]

Titan, although I may be no fan of MAS management, Asia is not all bad.

Have you tried Africa?

[residualvolts]

Slasher, if it is not here that we trash it out I really hope that it is not in the cockpit. Have u been following this. If u have than u know that those plural society (management) in MAS r not going to give a ring for those that want to trash it out. If they did, its just to know who has been writting. All the BS will come out n thats that. A few will get there retirement letters early. This is what we call free speech. Funny that they close down the other sites, don't u think so. Why not talk about that?

The world has a right to know what is going on n that it is safe to fly with MAS because we trash it out in some website n not in the air. To me I really think that the gov. should intervene in MAS or take over so that this plural thing does not happen. Really, we don't want another Grik incident and involve MAS pilost.

[NCC-1701e]

IMO the average morale of MAS pilots is about 6 feet down under the gutters. Can't really blame us after all thats happened. Mr 019- himself said we are a liability and that old Camel told us that we can pi** off elsewhere. With the crap 'management by no response' policy, its amazing that we are still flying at all. (Really! thats what WM, the guy just below 019- before, told the directors in a briefing back in 1995). Thats probably why the MAS pilots are bickering so much, because theres no 'real' response from the management. We really need help and its gonna come either from each other, or from the outside. This is what happens when a telephone operator gets some planes. Only this operator isn't gonna answer our calls. And the person who gave him the planes, is an even bigger idiot.

[Slasher]

Residualvolts there is nothing wrong in what you call trashing it out, but you go beyond acceptable limits of what should be posted on a global forum such as this one. As an example Oldace wrote (on the prev page):

QUOTE
"Coming to their Taliban leader the Ayatollah aka Camel. I got one breaking news. I just meet one of his old classmates who were with him when he was a student in Royal Military College in the Boy's Wing in 1968.
With his kampong religious attitude he got problems with his seniors. One night they gang up and sodomised him. That is why until today he is brained damaged and could't stand any senior who opposes him. That explained all his paranoid behaviors like Freud says."
UNQUOTE

What a rediculous thing to post for the world to see! Wether this ayatollah as you call him deserves trashing or not, writing a post like this one is nothing short of puerile. If Mr Oldace wants to advertise that this fellow was bummed in by his islamic classmates then this is something that should be kept in-house, not plastered all over an international BB!

Although Malaysia is well known for its religious favoritism, you make out that your flight department is full of dangerous islamic freaks. Wether you like it or not the Western world equates islam with terrorism and violence as a basis for its existance. Although some of us are a bit informed about Malaysia and similar developing nations, the majority of readers here are not. Previous posts here comparing some of your pilots to "Taliban" (hosts of Osama Bin Laden) and "Al-Maunah" (a growing islamic terrorist organisation in Malaysia I believe) give rise to reservations about the safety of your country and airline as a whole. It couldve been worded much much better and you couldve put the same message across more efectively. I believe that perhaps the Taliban/AlMuanah references are nicknames for islamic lunatics within your airline, but to outsiders it appears they are members of these looney organisations.

Again I suggest you request a Private MAS Forum from Danny where you can hang out your "dirtey linen" without the rest of the worlds flyers and non-flyers reading it and drawing conclusions you may (or may not) be necessariley intending.

[Goldwing2000]

Slasher are you as ignorant or as stupid as you sound? Well let's keep this in-house you say,what like the deputy-PM sodomy case. That was obviously kept in-house so the whole world didn't read about it!! It's not our fault or making if these poofs like to sodomised each other is it? We all live in a GLOBAL forum where information is and frequently exchanged and no matter how hard you try to supress the freedom of information,in the end it will always come out.
You are very naive to think that the public will relate the pro Taliban management style and ethics with terrorism and destruction,but then that's already happening and all without guns and bombs. The fanatics in management are self destructing, the problem is there taking the reputation of the airline and worse still the good name of the country down to the depths of the sewer. :mad:

---------------
If you do what you always do,you get what you always got.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Slasher and Goldwing

Hold your horses a second, both of you have very good points here. Slasher is at least concerned with how Malaysia and the Airline is represented on an international forum. With readers that encompass members of the press etc. Meaning, not only pilots read these threads.
Goldwing on the other hand knows that in a closed forum where staff numbers etc are required the Malaysian author will not come to the party because of a deep rooted distrust with regard to giving information that can implicate them personally. Hence, here we are on an open thread.
The interesting point is why was the MAPA forum not reactivated. It is hard to believe that the spamming activities could not be controlled. Perhaps, it was and is still off the air because they could not handle the content, or dissatisfaction of the membership with MAPA it self.
As for the flight operations department management team, it would not be unfair to indicate that most of them have been there for a long time, and during their tenure very little has been done to improve all aspects required by such a team. In short, they would not last long in many other Organizations let alone an airline! Therefore, what can and what have the pilots as a team done or are going to do about it, runaway to other airlines, as has been happening, or, standfast and together. It appears to me that divide and rule has been used in MAS with maximum results.

[Slasher]

Wooblah no. I couldnt give a rats about Malaysia or MAS or its image. The point I was making was that certain events revealed in this thread (for example, revealing to all of us the colective homosexual rape of one of there pilots) does more damage of how we percieve MAS pilots than the events discribed in themselves. There are events worth bringing out on the world stage and there are things that only should be known in-house.

PS By "in-house" Mr Goldwing Im infering that for example the group-bumming of one of your pilots should only be confined within the MAS pilots ranks, certainley not here.

[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 09 August 2000).]

[residualvolts]

Divide n conquer has been ultimately, perfectly used. Pilots in Malaysia and not only from MAS should stand together to better the situation in the country and out. Stand up to the few that thinks a non aviator knows best in how to handle an aircraft or a few which thinks that only some r gifted to select n play god. Warning, it is a sin in any religion.

To Slasher, change will come whether we like it or not. Don't put yr head in the sand and ignore the truth n so call "keep it in-house" is going to solve all the mess. At least we know that thrashing it out like this shows everybody which way we r heading n whether it is for the better or worst. If worst than there is still time for change. Some words r use to bring life to the information given. Don't put it out of context, please. Read n understand the hidden meaning of it. Obviously pilots don't sleep with each other, not that I know of anyhow.

[OldAce]

Hi gang I'm back from Puket, Southern Thailand. Had a good time and won some bets on golf.

I see the 'dogfight' still going on strong, so let me join in again in the melee with renewed energy.

I was lying under the coconut tree in Puket watching the naked girls running past and I was thinking, what a contrast it is to Kelantan and Trengganu coast that I visited last May. Their beaches are deserted devoid of life. They got better beaches than Phuket but where is everybody? Even their hotels and motels are practically empty. But if you just drive for another 30minutes south to Cherating Village which is in Pahang state ,there I thought I was in Hawaii. So many locals & Europeans lying around at the beaches. Why you may ask.

It's because Kelantan & Trengganu state are controlled by the 'Taliban' type of people just like the people in MAS Flight Operation. Wearing of bikini is banned at the beach. Even decent entertainment music band are banned from the hotels. What have they got left….very soon every TV in every home are going to get burned by the Taliban.

Gentlemen, do you really know what we are dealing with here. Given half the chance the Taliban will not hesitate to 'slit your throats'. They are just a bunch of religious fanatics and very soon if you don't take care, they will destroy the Malaysia that you and I know and loved.

Why do you think all the cream and the most senior of the Malaysian pilots (100 at last count)had left, is it only for the money? You are mistaken my friend, some left because they were badly 'treated' by the ruling Taliban in MAS*more on this later..

Just look south, SIA pilots never desert their airline as they were fairly treated and taken well care of by their airline. The pay differential is minimal between SIA & MAS pilots.

So Captain Wooblah think again. The Taliban had planned all this as far back as 1981.


"Watching naked girls running at the beach will not get anyone killed, except drug and religion"



[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 09 August 2000).]

[Goldwing2000]

Slasher what I can't fathom out is, if you don't give a monkeys' then why did it bother you if Old Ace went beyond acceptable limits.If you don't care about MAS, Malaysia or its image then why does it bother you how it is perceived?? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif Surely this is the place to air one's grievances and not wanting to harp on endlessly, the management from top to bottom need their assess kicked from KL to pro Taliban Afghanistan.
Old Ace nice to hear you had a splendid time,I'm sure the golf wasn't as good as seeing all those topless beauties on the beach. Only shame was, I wasn't there too!! :)

---------------
I don't need a frontal lobotomy I prefer a bottle infront of me!

[Old Dog]

I work for MAS. I am well aware that a very large number of MAS staff were not very impressed by how MAS is being managed.

We know very well that 019 is mis-appropriating MAS revenue. That's the main reason MAS is showing red while our neighbouring airlines remains profitable. He sold a large portion of our company assets: inluding airplanes and buildings. He sold our aircraft spares.

He chose his management team based on religous background, and/or ability to BS. The good guys were demoted/displaced to make place for Bu**-sh*t artists. The results? You can see for yourself.

We have made this company our home. So when someone wracked it, we are justifibly angry. While I share much of OldAce's feelings, I chose not to adopt a negative attitude. There are many pilots in the management team I still have high regards. I think many of them are creditable, sincere and hard working. Camel, Pygmy and Joseph are the few exceptions, not all of them are talibans.

I am not Muslim. Many of my best friends are very pious in Islam. They are sincere, reliable and trustworthy. I have deep respect for them as human beings, and Islam as a religion.

OldAce please don't generalise. The previous group of management pilots were not talibans, but not all of them were as creditable as the present group. Many were good human beings, but a few of the old guards were downright scum. Good riddance.

Slasher is right. But damage has already been done.

I wish to add that, our cockpits are still safe. That charming Malaysian way of life still prevails in the flight decks. With the introduction of CRM, they are getting better. We only bitch about it in the Internet forums.

MAS pilots are still a very nice bunch of people. Their cockpits are still as safe as any in the world. The more junior Captains are a lot easier to work with, and more knowledgeble too. Many of the old Captains were feared and disliked. Some of these big bullies are still with us.

I just hope that the situation won't get worse.


[This message has been edited by Old Dog (edited 10 August 2000).]

[MASystem]

A Big Round of Applause !!

[tallyho92]

Mr A Tis & Cream Crakered stop being so
damn dramatic, above all else MAS tech
crew are PROFESSIONAL and very well
trained PROFESSIONALS at that, in the
cockpit only the safety of the passengers
and the A/C are paramount, all else are
left behind ---PERIOD--- if I`m not
mistaken it wasn`t MAS`s airbus that ran
out of fuel over Europe and it wasn`t
MAS`s 744 that overshot the runway at
BKK, so let`s not have anymore of that
tripe.

The present CEO of MAS through his
network of cronyism and nepotism has
exacted a heavy burden on the airline,
depleted assets, axed routes, funds
transfer, morale almost zero among
employees, while our neighbour down
south even with all their associated
problems and with only 10% of our
population is going from strenght to
strenght.(just look at their A/C
acquisition & profits)
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON AT MAS,
ENOUGH ALREADY
It`s really time to clean the SLATE
while we still have a slate to clean
BUT I challenge anyone to open a
dialoque with management, to bring out
to the forefront all the grievances that
are troubling the pilots similar to ---
Air Canada is doing with its union ---
I can almost guarantee you that sadly
job relocation papers will be served to
whoever is bold enough to try

SO WHERE has all these years of having
in-house (hush hush) got us all, MAYBE
finally now that its in the international
domain, they can actually see how many
people are truly P.O. with them,
HOPEFULLY they will at least now entertain
some form of RECIPROCITY before it really
is too late.



------------------
you get what you put in,
and people get what they
deserve

[OldAce]

For ALL to understand this thread better.


Split Over Islamicization
Trial Underscores Malaysians' Division
8-8-2000
---------------------------------------------
By Thomas Fuller International Herald Tribune
---------------------------------------------

KUALA LUMPUR - The trial of Anwar Ibrahim that ended Tuesday was widely interpreted as a clash between the two most powerful political personalities in Malaysia, a bitter public battle between Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohamad, Asia's longest-serving leader, and his ambitious former deputy, Mr. Anwar Ibrahim.

But beneath this personality clash are turbulent social forces in Malaysia that analysts say will dominate political life well after the sting of Mr. Anwar's new jail term is gone.

The trial has left Malaysia, once a beacon of political stability in Southeast Asia, with an electorate deeply divided along religious lines - between Muslims pushing to transform Malaysia into an Islamic state and Muslims who wish to continue Malaysia's tradition of secular, Western-modeled government.

It remains an irony of Malaysian politics that conservative Islamic forces in the country have won support in the past two years by aligning themselves with a man accused of - and on Tuesday, convicted of - sodomy

But well to the north of the capital, there was a less reported corollary to Mr. Anwar's trial: 29 members of an Islamic cult AL Maunah were charged with ''waging war or attempting to wage war'' against Malaysia's king, a capital offense. Last month, cult members took four hostages after raiding an army depot and stealing rocket launchers and more than 100 assault weapons. The group tortured and killed two non-Muslim hostages before being arrested by security forces.

Although there is no reason to believe the cult has any connection with Mr. Anwar, the group was founded during the period of political turmoil that followed his dismissal from government.

Pro-government newspapers have attempted to link the theft of the weapons and the killing of the hostages to the Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party(PAS), the chief proponent of Islamicization in Malaysia. Mr. Mahathir has said the cult's actions were inspired by the party's ''hate campaign'' against the government.

''What is occurring in Malaysian politics is very, very dangerous,'' wrote Abdullah Ahmad, a New Straits Times editor. ''Our multiracial and moderate values and lifestyles are now under siege.''

While he was still in government, Mr. Anwar's background as a student activist fighting for Muslim causes helped bridge differences between the government and Muslim groups. His dismissal two years ago destroyed that link.

The prime minister is not in danger of losing power soon, but Islamicist forces are slowing eroding his party's base. He recently
said his party now operated in a ''hostile environment.''

The trend toward a more conservative Islam in Malaysia did not begin with Mr. Anwar's trial. Muslim women began dressing more
conservatively in the early 80's, and laws against gambling and the free mixing of unmarried Muslim couples have come into force since then.

Since the Anwar ordeal began, however, the Islamicization movement has become more high-profile and overt, especially when it comes to the implementation of Islamic laws.

The Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party(PAS) has more than doubled the number of seats it controls in Parliament. The party's ultimate goal is the establishment of an Islamic state in Malaysia.


"The people always deserve the leader they get"

[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 10 August 2000).]

[MASystem]

Very, very bitter...

[residualvolts]

Well, tallyho92, U just have to click that mouse on the top left hand where it says "email this to a friend" (Star, New Straits.....etc) n just might create history to be the person that just might solve all these problems.

I too have many nice muslim friends n agree that most of them r also at odd with the presence arrangement with my handphone. Its those few that needs a real boot in there mouth n feet at there backside. Kick them all the way to the NE coast or far, far away in the desert of AFg. Damn them!!!!!!!!

[Algol]

Mahathir is becoming old. When he dies all hell is gonna break loose. He's holding the country together by sheer force of personality and political will.

Anwar owes a debt to a lot of fundamentalist elements now, as a result of their support during his incarceration.
They are going to put him on the throne in an Islamic revolution post Mahathir, and he will only stay there as long as he gives them what they want...an Islamic state.

God help poor Malaysia.

[Goldwing2000]

Residualvolts and Algol how true what you say and unfortunately MAS has the brunt of these pro Islamic faction. It's very sad to see that power is slowly eroding from the PM's party especially since it's because of Mahathir that the country has prospered to the extent that it is today. A lot of people,and included by some of the ppruners that have contributed on this particular topic feels that it is way,way exaggerated but the story above of the attack on the army barrack and subsequent TORTURE of the two men proves otherwise. They believe status quo will remain but events have proved contrary to this!
Tallyho92 you're spot on with the professionalism of the cockpit crew and that will not change low morale or otherwise. MAS is a professional airline irrespective of their trouble and the fact that they carry more and more passengers each year goes to show that the public like the airline for it's service and safety. The airline is the face of Malaysia and the sooner both these entities sort themselves out, the better things will be all around.

----------------
Just because we don't get any complaints doesn't mean our parachutes are perfect.

[Kaptin M]

The [predictable] sentencing of Anwar Ibrahim and the blatant selloff of MAS - by Encik 019 - are two very obvious examples of the corruption and cronyism rife in Malaysia, especially in the upper echelons, and the "couldn't care less" attitude towards the average Malaysian.

The type of attitude exhibited by the Malaysian PM, and MAS's En.019, only further encourage other Malaysians to try to rort the system, to get out of it as much as they can for themselves, rather than working together to generate a [financially] healthy company, and country.

[Ironguts]

Kap M,
It's a sorry fact of life, that in Malaysia, it's not what you know, but who you know, and how much you are willing to pay him.
Corruption is endemic in Govt.

[con-pilot]

Only got one thing to say. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dagger Dirk]

Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary P793

"malaise" n, a feeling of discomfort or sickness

Always wondered, now I know http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

------------------
As a flight-engineer, Throgmorton knew that if he were to pass wind in the Pprune echo chamber, he would likely never hear the end of it

[Valhalla 4]

You mean its MALAISE-ia ?
Maybe.
It made me sick when I saw how the prime minister directs the judicial system to do his dirty work.
Is it the same with Malasia Airlines ?

[exeng]

Dear M.A.S.

I've had enough of this now, any chance yo could sort it out elsewhere?

Regards
Exeng

[OldAce]

Old Dog the previous group of Management (1994-1996) under Camel are Talibans. They had completely removed the Old Gaurds (not all are saint either) in 1994. The present management group is a mix of Taliban and the newer guys. I am targeting my assault only to the Taliban that is still in management. Who are they?

They are Joseph (a Taliban under cloak),Ham, Camal, and Jew to name a few. These Taliban are still getting their instructions from their leader Camel (one of Anwar Ibrahim Lieut.) who had since been thrown out in 1996. All these people are waiting for the comeback of Camel. With Anwar Ibrahim put behind bar for the next 10 years it look like their chances are slim. But don't underestimate. Don't forget their aim is for a complete Islamic State.

These Talibans had really infiltrated the core of MAS operations. They have their dirty connections in other Departments like Engineering and Traffic and the rot continues. Let me give you a few examples how they operate to hit you if you are not in their good book.

I arrived at the a/c at 1035 am for a 1100 departure and find the cockpit temperature at 45 deg C and the cabin at 40 deg C. All packs are off and the Apu is serviceable. The outside air temp is 28 deg C with overcast cloud. Next thing you know the pax are boarding.

Well their colleague in Engineering does this to fix you up, but what they don't realise is they are also causing discomfort to the full paying passenger where some of them will never fly with MAS again.

Another one, I took over an a/c in Melbourne in summer (OAT 38deg C) with an unserviceable apu. I was told by Quantas engineers there is no ground aircon cart in the whole of Australia (is this true?). I had advised Traffic not to board the pax until the last possible moment. But Traffic had decide to override me and follow their standing instruction i.e. boarding the pax at 40minute before door close. We have to open all the Jumbo doors as a result. Well there goes somemore Aussies customers.

On the return leg to KUL while docking in, the copilot had inadvertently started the unserviceable Apu inspite of me briefing him earlier during descent not to do so.. The Apu was working perfectly.

Engineering KUL had dispatch an a/c with an 'unserviceable' Apu to MEL knowing full well it need it to operate in the hot weather. Since the Apu is serviceable they just put a sticker saying it is not so. Well they know who is taking over. They always check their Taliban 'Black Book" for the blacklisted pilots.

These are the things that the Taliban management do to intimidates the non-Taliban pilots. No wonder so many pilot had left. The Taliban are getting closer to their aim for a full Islamic society. We must get rid of all the Talibans in management before they destroy the airline.


"The Taliban management spend 3/4 of their office time scheming to screw up pilot they don't like, instead of doing the job they are paid for"


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 11 August 2000).]

[Kaptin M]

Old Ace, it appears your persecution complex is beyond all reasonable bounds - do you REALLY believe that "they" chose an aircraft with a u's apu, or u/s'd an apu, because you [whose name is in their little black Taliban book] were crewing the flight?? How about the F/O, F/E and the Cabin Crew. It further demonstrates the distrust many Malaysians have of each other.

It may be true that Anwar Ibrahim would move Malaysia towards a more Muslim state, but it is surely a better alternative than the present corrupt, self-serving system under the self admitted Dictator.

Anyway, today is Friday - the Muslim Holy day, when the mosques will be full of the religious, and the streets filled with riot polis to counter the Reformasi's reaction to Tuesday's Mahatir directed court ruling.


With the extremist views published by several here, Malaysia, and MAS seem to be heading closer to conflict, than achieving tolerance and understanding of each other.

[tallyho92]

Kaptin M
One does tolerant a lot of nonsense in pprune
that there is no doubt, HOW SELFISH CAN ONE
BE, you sure take the biscuit with one of
the most stupid and flippant remarks I have
read over pprune, with regards to how a
muslim state would be a better alternative
than the present goverment, if memory serves
me correctly from your previous postings
you are a Mat Salleh and thus a guest in
Malaysia, you can leave anytime (please feel
free to do so) what about those who don`t
have a choice and cannot just pack up and
relocate.

If Malaysia was a total Islamic country under
huduh laws, one thing is sure Kaptin M you
would`t have a job in Malaysia and there
would in all probability be a bloodbath very
similar to the attrocities that took place in
Yugoslavia. Malaysia`s greatness is that its a multi racial, multi cultural, multi religion society, the very essence of tolerance. I`m sure that 95% of the population including almost all moderate muslims would fight tooth and nail to keep it that way.

[This message has been edited by tallyho92 (edited 11 August 2000).]

[NCC-1701e]

tallyho92, you said;
"If Malaysia was a total Islamic country under huduh laws, one thing is sure Kaptin M you would`t have a job in Malaysia and there
would in all probability be a bloodbath very
similar to the attrocities that took place in
Yugoslavia."

How do you know the future? Malaysia has never been ruled by any other govt. other than the present one. I think a change should take place, even if only for one term. At least we might find out what the present one is really doing behind the scenes. Yeah, i don't trust politicians and i think someone other than themselves should audit their work. Thats check and balance to me. (I have and always will refuse a politicians vist to the deck, no matter which camp they come from.)

[Kaptin M]

tallyho92, what makes you think that I am not a Muslim?

Do you have a selective memory as well? Malaysia had a bloodbath in 1969, when Chinese were singled out in a similar manner to the recent Indonesian foray, by the multi-racial, multi-cultural, multi-religious extremists.

Are you so thin skinned that you cannot accept some observations from one who is not compelled to partake in the country's elections, and is thus able to formulate an opinion based on experience, rather than political propaganda?

Is it not even more ironic that IF I am not a Muslim, I see more benefit for Malaysia under an honest system, as opposed to the current regime, even if it means my job prospects there would be threatened!!

[tallyho92]

No I don`t know what the future will hold for Malaysia but neither do I need to be shot to know that I will be seriously hurt.
People are not stupid, not everyone likes
Mahathir including those that voted for him
but without a doubt he is the lesser of two
evil and under his leadership Malaysia has
prospered beyond all our wildest imagination
he is the only one, still that appeals to all
walk of life in Malaysia, like him or loath
him, he maintains Malaysia`s rigid posture,
without which, religious and social anarchy will prevail.

The race riots of 69 will be like a tea party
compared to what will take place if the
religious zealots ever take political control
of Malaysia with their all or nothing islamic
indoctrination. Remember how in 79 the general populace in Iran embrace Khomeni in
order to rid them of the Shah, everything
went downhill after that and Iran after 20yrs
is still shunned in the world`s community.

Change for the sake of change is worthless,
if not impued with HOPE, a basic fundamental
endearing human trait, it is the very reason
Malaysia has taken off so remarkably, now just imagine life if everything was HOPELESS
like life under the religious fanatics.

------------------
If you haven`t all the
things you want, be
grateful for the things
you don`t have, that
you would`t want

[This message has been edited by tallyho92 (edited 12 August 2000).]

[OldAce]

Very well said Tallyho92

Even in Barisan National (Dr. Mahathir multi-racial party) now, there are forces at work in weeding out the bad hats and the black sheeps. No party is perfect in this world. We cannot afford an Islamic party like PAS that can cause unstability and chaos to the whole country At least we don't have to go the way of some third world countries where pandemonium reign.


"Better the Devil you know,than the Fanatics you don't"



[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 11 August 2000).]

[Kaptin M]

So, no point in elections, opposition parties, or Freedom of Speech....

....actually that IS about the way it is now!! Isn't it?

[This message has been edited by Kaptin M (edited 12 August 2000).]

[Slasher]

KM you were in MAS once?

[kurmitola]

Just got back from phuket..watching Oldie played hmm....Just joking. I'm surprised a lot of you are still wasting your precious time with this disgruntled and sick and old guy.I'll give you a summary okay!

Old ace says " no SIA pilots deserted their company..." and " diff in SQ and MAS pilots' pay minimal ?"
in his previous thread he said Joseph is and alcoholic etc.. then later on Joseph is a taliban...
Come on guys ..if you all still cannot make up whom your are wasting your time with I rest my case. Please dont lower yourselves to his level cos only GW can ft into that place without difficulty. Over and out.
Pukul 1035 pagi overcast...temp 45 C..mana ? Sahara desert aaa? Open all jumbo doors cos no APU ( and Australia got no ground cart? ) Wake up guys...just leave him alone okay..NO BUYERS....NO SELLERS..

[OldAce]

Hey Taliban kurmitola

I see that not only you cannot read properly, you also lost your ability to reason why. Or is it your old tactic to confuse everybody again just like you did to all the pilot in MAS with your obscure policy. No wonder the airline is in a mess with people like you running it.

Joseph had been Camel right hand man to do all his dirty works. He had screwed up so many pilot life, as many in MAS will attest. Since the 'good muslim' cannot do this kind of work they get people like Joseph to do it. Like I told you before Joseph is a Taliban under cloak mixing with beer drinking pilots to report their weaknesses to Camel.

"Pukul 1035 pagi overcast...temp 45 C..mana ? Sahara desert aaa?

Read the thread carefully you dim wit Taliban. I said the cockpit temp was 45C, OAT that for Outside Air Temperature is 28C. Do I have to spell it out to you. Your Taliban ground engineer had turn up the heat to 50C before the crew arrive. Do you know that we can turn up the cabin temperature too on the ground. How did you pass the 747 Technical exams, you paid again is it,.or did you copied all the answers on a small piece of scrap paper.. Or is my English too complex for you kampong muallah boys to understand

[Moonbeam Purple]

OldAce - speaking about technical questions. I recon You are on the 744, if so, you should know that the temperature can be set to maximum 29 degrees C. for the cockpitt. :) However being parked in the sun with packs off, will offcourse make a big difference, but that's another story.

[OldAce]

Yes I know that. But if the engineer turn off the temp regulator it can go as hot as it can get.

My boy go look again in the engineering tech manual where that regulator is. You young 22 year old copilot on the 744 still got a long long way to go and learn. And you are going to be Commander at 24. Ignorance is bliss.

[Moonbeam Purple]

OldAce - Wrong -> Try Again!! Does that sound familiar to You!!!! Remember the CPT! :)

First of all: You said the packs were off :rolleyes: then second: You said that the ground engineer had turned the heat up to 50C - didn't You!!! Please clear up things, cos it seems to me that You are messing up the facts.

I'll accept Your apology about the 22 year old wonderkid, if You have the guts to post it - surely I have my doubts though! :rolleyes:

BTW - The automatic and the manual temperature selecter switch is the same - do You know that? :) :)

Moonbeam P.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Chaps, here is a quick quiz to see if you are management material.
Please answere true or false, no cheating or hand signals allowed.


1) Joseph And the Ham sandwich are Morons True / FALSE.

2) Are BLACK DUCKS Swan Premium Beer True / FALSE.

3) Does Joseph Keep Black Ducks Next to his office TRUE / FALSE.

4) Does MAS have an engineering department TRUE / FALSE.

5) MAS engineers are just component changers with zilch diagnostic capabilities TRUE / FALSE.

6) Hav'nt all the best local engineers left MAS TRUE / FALSE.

7) Is it not so that the Yellow Sticker is the engineering departments best friend TRUE / FALSE.

8) The MEL is a book to be abused to the max TRUE / FALSE.

9) Is'nt it true the expats in MAS were treated like dirt TRUE / FALSE.

10) The current Flt Ops management team a.k.a The Dream Team should throw themselves into the spinning N1 of a Trent to save face TRUE / FALSE.

11) These threads are full of sh!t TRUE / FALSE.

12) Always start the No 2 engine on an A330 during pushback on a down slope True / False

13) MAS 747's Love Grass True / False.

14) No 3 & 4 engines can be used as the main gear if required TRUE / FALSE.

15) XXSH at destination means never carry an alternate, holding fuel and uplift minimum fuel only TRUE / FALSE.

16) An aerobridge is used by dentists TRUE / FALSE.

17) 019- is an extreemly reliable WAP service TRUE / FALSE.

18) A jet core indicates a rise in the stock market TRUE / FALSE.

19) An ISO TACH indicates engine RPM only TRUE / FALSE.

20) Always retard power levers to increase meal allowance and flight hours for cash and promotions True / FALSE.

Please add up your score and send it to a Management Pilot to obtain your promotion / Demotion..................


[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 13 August 2000).]

[OldAce]

Coming up "How the Taliban screwed up the pilot in MAS"

[MASystem]

great...

[Airbubba]

Four Tires Burst As Plane Lands



Filed at 10:11 a.m. EDT

By The Associated Press

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) -- A Malaysian Airways plane with 130
people on board burst four of its six tires while landing at Kuantan
Airport.

No one was injured in the Sunday night incident involving a Malaysian
Airways Boeing 737-400 aircraft. All passengers disembarked safely.

The airport was closed for safety reasons and was to reopen Monday
night, the national news agency Bernama said Monday.

Kuantan Airport is 160 miles east of the capital, Kuala Lumpur.

Copyright 2000 The New York Times Company

[OldAce]

What do you expect from these 24 year old wet behind the ear Captain. Their hours mainly gain as "B" team copilot on the 744 with very little landing sectors. This year alone we already have 3 landing incidents by these young Ignorance is Bliss type. That the one we know, a lot more may be hidden.

Without much info I can speculate that they came in high and at high speed and landed well into the runway.

The trend is showing, the payback is coming.

[OldAce]

How the Taliban Screw the Pilots.

First we have to see the aim of the Taliban group in MAS. It is for a formation of an Islamic force for the furtherance of Islamic principles in the Airline. Nothing wrong with that as long as they don't infringe on other people rights and carried out in a morally correct manner.

What went wrong? They started to abuse their powers in the management of Flight Operation from 1994 onwards.

How did they do it, I will list it for you below:

The greatest sin was to dole out some policy letters in the form of circulars, which most time are vague in nature. A good example is the fuel policy of taking just the minimum fuel as calculated by the Computer flight plan. By disallowing the Captain to add additional fuel, it had caused the name of the Airline to wallow in the gutters as evident by the London Fuel fiasco. The dispatcher had rudely told off a Captain that he couldn't take anymore fuel than the CFP. This Captain insisted, otherwise he would not take off. An adverse report was submitted later by the dispatcher to the Taliban management. The Captain was called up and admonished by the Fleet Manager. Well had he not taken the extra fuel and ended up diverting, he will also be called up for not having enough 'balls' for what he is paid for. Either way he will have a black mark in the Taliban 'Black List' book.

The other one is allowing pilot to land into a single runway airport with no diversion fuel provided the weather is good. What happen when the runway gets block by a preceding aircraft? Well the Captain if he is alive will get the **** , as they will pull out FAA regulation that disallows this.


To be continued…….

[PILOST]

FYI Old Ace,

i)DCA malaysia doesn't allow a commander of an RPT a/c to be less than 25 years old.

ii)In any accident or incident it's not wise to comment until ALL FACTS are known!

iii)It's reported by today's paper that the antiskid system malfunctioned & caused the tyres to lock.

So Old Ace, please be factual O.K!

P.S. being angry,grumpy & stressed will lead you closer to your grave.......You don't want that to happen to you right?Not when your crusade against MAS's Taliban isn't over....

[The Zombie]

Ding Ding - final round.

Lets keep it a good clean fight 'gentlemen', if you can! 3 falls, 1 submition or a knock out will settle this...Box...

Over 100 posts already for this very heated thread. http://www.geocities.com/thehugmonster/animations/barrel.gif

[This message has been edited by The Zombie (edited 15 August 2000).]

[occidental]

What an absolute waste of time, energy and space.

Oldace, you're not only old ... you're senile too.

[OldAce]

Two independant anti-skid system fails is like having 2 engine failures. Go tell that to the marines. The pilot cooked the wheels bearings red hot and subsequently the tyre blew. As usual another cover-up by the Taliban to protect their kind.

Taliban type can crash planes and still get promoted to commander.

Ok I revise that....wet in diapers 25 years old Captains with less than 10 actual landings in 3 years given command.

Ha..Ha..Ha what do you expect TR when you listened to the idiots TALIBANS with their lies.

[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 15 August 2000).]

[OldAce]

How the Taliban screw up the pilot in MAS Pt 2

To further their aim for a complete Islamic airline the Malaysian Taliban have to get rid of any threats to them. One of their priorities is to remove the seniors who got the guts to face them.

They achieve this in many ways one of them is abusing the use of the Roster to screw up their flights. If their adversary like to fly they give them less flight and visa versa. Or roster them to 'death' with 24 working days in a month especially when their Base Check is due. Of course denying them the easy flights and the nitestops liked by all pilots.

Always make them fly on Christmas or Chinese New year days not for one but the consecutive few years. Issue a circular embargoing leave on festive seasons, but the Taliban management and their men can go on leave quietly.

A lot of these Taliban are still in our management and creating havoc whenever they go.

One of them even said on this thread " Well we can have expatriate pilots from Iraq, Iran and Afghan as a majority in Malaysia airline as long as the management are Malaysian (Taliban that is..) You don't see any expat pilots from Australia anymore since the Human Resource Dept (Personal Dept) had been taken over by Joseph, the Ayatollah right hand man.

The implication my friend in the next few years many more Malaysian pilots will be removed to be replaced by the 'muallah' kind at 1/2 our pay. As it is the Malaysian pilot are the second cheapest Jumbo pilot in the world at less than US$4000 a month.

If you don't believe just wait and see. By which time I hope not, your job will be at stake.


"The difference between a CEO of a billion dollar company and a pilot is, a pilot can take over the CEO job at worst in some loss of money and layoff but he might just turn it around for a big profit. A CEO taking over a Jumbo packed with people would most likely incur a billion dollar loss and loss of life"




[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 20 August 2000).]

[OldAce]

Looks like the coast is clear, there's no more flaks.

The Islamic Taliban forces had withdrawn...

[Adamastor]

Keep it up OldAce - it's great to see someone with the balls to speak out!

Oh my god - this is just too beautiful for words! I've sat here for the last half an hour reading this topic and laughing my ar$e off! It's glorious to see an intrinsically cr@p system fall apart, and seeing as how MAS is just a mini Malaysia, run in the same diabolically f**ked up fashion, it's just a matter of time for you both. Thank Christ I'm out. Nothing can save you! Algol's statement was the most telling - when Mahatir's gone, you're all screwed! Oh this is just too exciting - I have to go and w@nk!

[marlin]

Old Ace should die gracefully and when he dies, let's step on his grave to make sure he's dead.

[squak7700]

right on steelbird.That's what i concluded too,oldace is with SIA now after retirement.Guess he must be sucking up to the management there now,very capable of doing this.Was hell going thru base-checks with him when he was IP much earlier on.If he was good and knowledgeable of the aircraft that wouldn't hurt that much but oldace seems to think that he's always right.Very bitter guy,thinks the airline owes him the world just bcos he's from the airforce.Hard to tell oldace to grow up??

[steelbird]

Old Ace,
You are really doing a disservice to your cause against the establishment by denying/twisting facts just to make it look more dramatic/ludicrous/unimaginable to those who are not privy to the plain facts.
My friend,if your intention is to scare the sh*ts out of MAS' potential customers/journalists,you have done exceedingly well.On the other hand if your intention was to expose the mismanagement & get some response for it,I'm afraid you have done miserably by twisting the facts.It may seem believable to those who are not totally familiar with the "goings" on,but for those who do know,you have lost your credibility.
It is true, that there are clowns in management but to twist facts about the calibre of pilots just because it suits your agenda is simply disgusting & dissapointing,especially for one of your experience.
About the Kuantan incident please allow me to bring you up to speed on the facts.
1.The anti-skid became u/s at holding pt. ex-KUL.The a/c departed after consultation with engineering,the MEL & the actual wx. at destination perused.
2.The r/w in Kuantan was wet on arrival.(sh*t happens)
3.The r/w is not that long especially when wet with nt skid u/s.The a/c touched down 1500' beyond the landing threshold.The FDR showed no evidence of excessive braking action by the pilot.(Not high,fast or exceedingly long as you ignorantly/maliciously claimed)
4.The Captain is a non-Muslim(no taliban crony)& is definitely not 24 yrs.old.He is 31 yrs.of age.(The age of a local commander of a 737 is a minimum of 28 on the fleet,the average is 30+.The company's minimum is 25,that includes Twin Otter & F50 commands).

As it stands,all your claims are left out in the rain as nothing more than the ramblings of someone who wants (I hope)to change things,but is frustrated about how best to go about it,therefore takes things out of context & does more harm to his cause than good.You have no credibility left,the only one's supporting you are those who have since left(therefore assume you are right) or have no idea at all of what's going on.While you started off with the right intentions,by making things look worse than they realy are, be it about the Taliban's or the state of pilot competence you have no local support.You have degenerated an excellent opportunity to do an expose to a sideshow or even worse a freakshow.
Best regards & how's SQ treating you? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

P.S You are one helluva conspiracy theorist,ever consider writing fiction?

[occidental]

An "ace" during his AF days three decades ago, but an absolute misfit the day he joined the airline.
Could never understand the concept of CRM.
Spent the last few years getting plastered alone in his hotel room due to his bitterness.

What a shame to see somebody degenerate to such an extent.

[kurmitola]

Thats about wrapped up the whole thing. And like I've told all of you before ( and still waiting for oldass's newspaper clips about the Airbus that crashed landed and blocked the runway in 1998 etc..etc..) , please leave him alone and his mate GW will care for him now on. Not even good for an extension beyond 55 and what do you expect ? Even Kuey Tiaw Lum was given extension ( of course he's a million times better than oldass and ex airforce and no taliban type ). Need any more explanations ? I,m so sorry for old ( n sick ) ass.Guys..! lets get on to a better ( and intellectualy ) discussion okay!

[NCC-1701e]

"Nothing can save you! Algol's statement was the most telling - when Mahatir's gone, you're all screwed!" - Adamastor

He is smart isn't he. Making himself irreplaceable. Now all Malaysians have no choice but to have him as our leader forever.

I would also like to know, how come there seems to be more chinese cabin crew than other races in the MAS widebody fleet? Does anyone else notice this? Try and take note everytime you fly. I hope its got nothing to do with the Cabin crew department being run mainly by those 2 chinese guys. OldAce, any conspiracy theory here for us?

----------
"I don't have an attitude problem, you have a perception problem." :-D

[steelbird]

Goodness man! NCC are we all M'sians or what?
I'm stunned that you can actually perceive a threat when SOME of your flights are manned disproportionately by a certain ethnic group by chance,when MAS as the rest of the country has very certain employment guidelines on racial quotas.The Malays being neccesarily the dominant group by far.
Really man,if you can sense something is amiss with all these policies in place,I really am lost for words,even afraid.I am being forced to rethink Old Ace's conspiracy theory as far as the Taliban's are concerned at least.
As we approach Merdeka day,let us try to see one another as fellow M'sians,all trying our best for OUR country.
Geez!Where are we heading?I pray this is a minority's sentiment. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

By the way good luck to you & your mates come Hari Raya,hope you get your leave or would you rather fly so that the "right" combination of ethnicity is displayed in the a/c.

[OB 1]

enormously entertaining!!!
I am sure I went thru flight school with you kurmitola you might have got your atpl first go but didn't you flunk the Aussie commercial licence at least 3 times? Didn't I see your sorry ass fall with a thud from flaring and stalling that cherokee at 50 ft above the threshold? You put the instructors back out as I recall. bent the left main gear as well! As for inteleckchooal conversation I don't recall that you ever offered that. Remember old bob the IP that had a zillion hours raf trained and all sorts of ratings. You may be sad to hear that he died in a tomahawk at 1 am fast asleep while his student tried to find his way home. there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but... you know the rest. It sounds like I made the right choice in advoiding airlines I've had a hell of a great time in GA here in Oz. The pay is not so good but the job satisfaction more than makes up for that. I feel sorry for you guys and all the wasted energy squealing at each other, don't you realise that you are all expendible trinkets? I'm sure that pprune just love this thread, it should go down in anals whoops is that 2 n's annals of forum history as the most insidious and unproductive ramblings EVER!! adios amigo's you need a god! Just not the one you've got.

[OldAce]

I am not here on a popularity vote. I am here to come out with the truth. It is not the fault of the young Captain who lacked real experience when they go for the command course. The deficiency was started by the Taliban management in 1994. Their mental process was clouded by the fact that they have sibling just out of school and how they can get them to fly the jumbo in the fastest possible time.

Before 1994 co-pilot have to spend 1-2 years on Fokker, 1-2 years on 737, and the next 2 years on a wide body before getting their command. By which time they have gathered a lot of t/o and landing experience. Nowadays just 1 year on 737 then on to the jumbo as cruise pilot.

In the new way the ‘cruise’ co-pilot hardly gets any sector, sometime as much as 6 months, before they get a taste of a landing. And the landing they get are of the ideal weather condition type.

Suddenly they are thrust to fly in the worst weather condition on their own, and the result are beginning to speak for themselves. I know they have better manipulative skill than some older guys, but wait till they themselves becomes the older guy and see where their skill go. A 25 years old fighter pilot is definitely more skilled than a 40-50 years old fighter pilot. That is why nowadays we have a/c heavily automated. It’s the years of experience that count. Worse what with the ‘kiasu’ (I wanna, I wanna..) mentality nowadays it doesn't help. Otherwise why don’t we have 25 year old jumbo captains, it can save the company a lot of money.

What the company should have done is let them spend 2-3 years on the 737 and then go for the jumbo. At least they would have gained ample experiences on the 737 where they would be becoming commanders on.


“Truth is the highway where few brave men dare to thread”

[occidental]

There he goes again, ranting and raving.
So sad and bitter.
The older he gets the bigger ass he becomes.

[OldAce]

NCC-1701e says:

“I would also like to know, how come there seems to be more chinese cabin crew than other races in the MAS widebody fleet? Does anyone else notice this? Try and take note everytime you fly. I hope its got nothing to do with the Cabin crew department being run mainly by those 2 chinese guys. OldAce, any conspiracy theory here for us?”

Non-Malays can really feel the heat of the undercurrent situations among the Malays.The normal western, modern Muslim and the 1400 years old Fundamentalist Islamic Fanatics had been at each other throat since the 80’s.

I had known of one Talibanic Chief steward who had been terrorizing his crew to conform to strict Islamic laws. One day one of the crew could not take it anymore, he chased this Chief Steward around the galley with a steel steak knive.

There are a lot of commotions among the Muslim started by the Talibans. They do unfair flight reports on the not so religious Malays. They stunted their career. They will not even allow them to go to Karaoke session to have a coke. Of course some of these normal Muslim had retaliated. Normal Muslim are being treated as ‘kafir’ or infidel. So with all these adverse reports it is no wonder that many Malays did not survive to go to the wide bodies.

It had happened to the Tech Crew too. If not how come many Malay pilots are leaving too. This is what the Taliban management wants, to go back to the glorious 7th century Islamic Order….the Hudud Law.

“In the eyes of the Taliban they are the only true chosen race by Allah to dominate this earth. Other type of Muslim or other race or religion are just irrelevant, only fit for the fire in hell” -- smack of Hitlerism.


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 23 August 2000).]

[coffeemate]

Really hilarious!!!!! Fabulous that so much distortion can come from one "sane" mind!!!

[OldAce]

This is for all those taliban pilots and cabin crew, I think you know who you are.

It is unfortunate that the recent armed heist by the talibanic group, Al-Maunah did not escalate into a full scale religious war. If not the military and police would had finished off all of them, the scum of the earth.

Just go to the Islamic state of Kelantan and see for yourself what a poor state they are in economically. They might have a lot of ‘fund’ in heaven but on old earth it is wanting. They now running into a serious water shortage. Well it might be good for them as they can drink the untreated river water just like in the old Arab way, in 7th century style. Their grass at the roadsides are growing tall, no fund for cutting. The city smell of faeces as there is no water to drain it away. No right minded contractor wants to built a water plant for them. Investors had pulled out long time ago. Price of properties had dropped dramatically since they won the state 10 years ago. Many people there are out of jobs. It is just lucky that other states are supporting some of these jobless. Their beautiful beaches and hotels are empty. Soon they might as well go back to live a life like in the glorious 7th century Islamic Empire. Don’t forget to cut off the TV and the Internet. This is Camel high country.

It is not the talibans who are instrumental in achieving and maintaining the independence of this country, it is the Normal people, the Military and the Police. It is not the taliban who developed this country, it is the Normal people. So why should we let them rule this part of the world.

If they want a country to achieve their ideal Islamic state, then they should ask Saudi Arabia for a piece of the desert and migrate there. DON’T YOU taliban EVER FORGET this is a Multi-Cultural, Multi-Religious, Multi-Racial country, the foundation of which is being built upon.

So don’t act as if this Airline is being built for your kind. Don’t act as if your grandfather owes it. Very soon there be a big change in the ownership. You are on the list to be terminated, removed, made redundant.

If you are still not happy then all of you can go to the Penang Bridge and jump off so that you can reach your heaven earlier. Don’t stay on this earth and make other people life miserable. The Malaysian government is watching you, in fact the whole world is watching you, so you better watch out before the worse of your religion gets to you.


'occidental' this is what they call ranting, I haven’t started to rave yet.

[PILOST]

Hey Old Ace!

I thought your fight was with MAS & not the state govt. of Kelantan.Your credibility would not stand in good heed here cause it was the people's choice that elected your so called 'Taliban' state.Have you been there recently?Or are you just ranting & raving cause you got nothing factual to say?

I'm NOT from that neck of the woods but am familiar with the area.Remember Old Ace, Kelantan is an oppositon state.The reason no one wants to develop the area is that the present Federal Govt. isn't making it easy for them.This is a political issue, PERIOD!As for MAS it's fair game.... but leave religion out of it too cause religious extremism is evident in the world.Eg., Waco -Texas, French Guyana, Kashmir, N.Ireland, etc.

Anyway nice to see your postings, venting your bitter memories of MAS on this forum.It might just lower your blood pressure...... Looking forward to see your own brand of 'propaganda' for us here in MAS to LOL!

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

Safe Flying!

[Grapes]

OldAce,

What are you trying to project here?
I seriously think you have an enormous mental instability. You worked for MAS? I doubt it. Mate, pull your pants up and get ahead with times. Get a life and leave our MAS alone. Remember that others have access to this thread. Let me conclude that MAS is a wonderful place to work in.

[OldAce]

Pilost why are you born with a narrow perception of thing. Can’t you read something and see it in the whole context without twisting the content. Had the Taliban religious indoctrination make you see things in a tunnel vision.

My fight was never with MAS, it always have been with the TALIBAN in MAS. They have already caused untold misery and damages to the Airline.

The example I gave on the Taliban controlled Kelantanese state is to show what happened when a state or an organization gets under their control. I know that place and their mentality well as I was brought up there and had been there recently. The woman there are slowly losing all their rights to work and to represent the society. Very soon it will be like Afghanistan, woman cannot work. Even in supermarket the woman had got a different lane to pay their bills.

If the Taliban takes complete control of Malaysia Airline it will be just like the Kelantan state. No more alcohol will be served on board. All you see on videos will be religious sermons and you hear the same on audio. The Malaysia Airline then might as well forget about being a real International Airline. Just fly to the Middle East and Afghanistan and called itself the Islamic International Airline. Go talk to the pilots from Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan that are with MAS. Ask them why they left their country and their airline. You’ll find it’s not only for the money.

[PILOST]

Guys, he sounds so much like Nik Whose Lan.....Bitter, cause he got sidelined by management now after his 'meteoric' promotion.Which he achieved by his conman tactics & selling us out at the last MOU when representing the pilots.

I guess a snake will always shed it's skin to fit the occasion.

[OldAce]

Pilost it looks like you are still lost after all these time on this thread.

Well at least you are not as bad as the biggest liar east of Suez-kurmitola

[steelbird]

Gentlemen,
After 123 posts,I suppose both sides have convinced as many people as they possibly ever could of the merits of their arguments.
Dear Mr.Old Ace,you have succeeded in bringing attention to the issues as you saw them.
Mr.Kurmitola & friends,you have managed to project your opinion & perceptions rather interestingly & effectively.
Then,there are those who think both of you are off your rockers.
At the end of the day,the point has been made & recognised for all it's insinuations.
What say we call it quits?
Capt.PPRUNE has been most generous,let's not overstay our welcome.
Best regards to ALL.
Happy Hari Merdeka! ;)

[acegreaser]

One good thing you have done Old Ace is that you got many new guys registering in Pprune just to answer your thread. And that's the only good thing you've done.

[Goldwing2000]

Steelbird,ever the diplomat but I'm afraid it's not working. If you can't tolerate the posts here then please vacate and leave the forum to those that can.
Everyone's saying that OldAce is ranting and raving. Yes, he does exaggerate a tad but I challenge any of you to refute what he says about the State of Kelantan and their Talibanic ways. We might all like to sweep it under the carpet but it rears it's ugly head every so often,to the annoyance of the Govt, not forgetting the recent incident at Grik.Pilost is right when he says it's a political agenda but it's the people that can put an end to the turmoil in Kelantan with the help of the Govt.It's no coincidence that Kelantan is the most backwards of all the states,even East Malaysia is progressing faster but it's no surprise when you look at all the deeply Islamic countries in the world,they're all backwards e.g Iran,Afghanistan. How is this all connected to MAS? Take a good look around people. Why has the airline gone from bad to worse? Why are the majority of pilots unhappy? There are many reasons but only two fundamental ones. 1) Talabanic management and Flight Ops including 019's siphonning of funds 2) The poor salaries leading to poor staff morale. Change is coming and that can only mean good things for the airline and eventually Malaysia. Happy Merdeka day to one and all. :)

------------------
If you do what you always do,you get what you always got!

[NCC-1701e]

Steelbird said; "when MAS as the rest of the country has very certain employment guidelines on racial quotas."

just to confirm it, are the guidelines only for initial employment? Are there any guidelines for ethnicity percentage actually working in companies in Malaysia? I don't think so. Steelbird, i am just reporting my observation here. I haven't jump to any conclusions yet. Thats why i was asking those questions. If you're on the widebody jets, just observe whats happening at the back. Observe the ethnicity breakdown and how Some IFSes tend to distribute the workload among the ethnic groups. You do take interest in your crew's duties and welfare, don't you? I know we hate to admit there are still some ethnic problems to iron out after 43 years of independence but denying it won't help either. We don't want another mirror "Talibanic" group (if there is even one) responding to the actions of the current one in any department. What we want is harmony. "Untukmu Malaysia", Happy Merdeka Day, may you live long and prosper.

----------

[OldAce]

I really miss the wonderful periods in Malaysia and in MAS in particular in the 70’s and part of the 80’s before the Talibanic forces started to destroy the very fabric of Malaysian harmony. We all irrespective of any race or religion really used to work as a real team then and people of that period appreciate the contribution of the government services and the military sacrifices.

Some of the younger generations nowadays brought up with silver spoon, are just spoiled brats and are not grateful at all to the older generation who had brought up the country in spite of the odds against them.

Shall I fly the Malaysian flag this month, I haven’t decided yet. What the use of having flags all over the place when at the end of the day people still go back to their old vice of making others miserable. At the end of the day people still not doing anything to undo the damages they had done in the pursuit of their or their group ambitions. I hope we can all come together on this Merdeka days….but I have my doubts, the Taliban are too set in their ways they’ll never change.

Anyway to the good honest guys I’ll extend my Merdeka wish in remembering all people Malay, Chinese and Indian who had sacrificed their life so that we all could sleep peacefully.

“Ask not what the country can do for you but what you can give to the country”

[Adamastor]

NCC-1701e, you should consider a pseudonym change to 'the Master of the Understatement.' To say that "there are still some ethnic problems to iron out" in Malaysia is like saying "Hitler had a few issues!"

The manner in which the Taliban and even OldAce's so-called "Normal Muslims" treat EVERY OTHER RACE IN MALAYSIA is abhorrent. Is it any wonder that a similar situation exists in MAS? This abomination is perpetuated by racist pr!cks like Mahatir (amongst a great many others) in the name of nationalism! Merdeka Day?!? Don't make me laugh!

Adamastor

[Adamastor]

Hey, occidental, tell us about YOUR racial heritage! Do you even know what 'Occidental' means?!? Is there a reason you proclaim your 'whiteness' to all and sundry?

My point exactly.

Adamastor

[PILOST]

Adamastor, what's your beef about our Hari Merdeka?That's our independence day!

Yes, free from those power hungry, resource stripping colonial power.They were the ones who handed us the "divide & conquer" rule.Just look at S.Africa, Indonesia & India.Let us sort this problem you handed to us in our fashion & don't look down at us.

A word of advice, until such time the so called developed nations address their own problems in their own backyard, then you MAY preach your values on us.Let me not remind you of the aborigines (lost generation) in Australia, red indians in USA & the social diseases that you have.

Our independence is sacred to us, as life under the colonial powers weren't nirvana anyway.There's an appropriate malay saying here, loosely translated means: Even if it rains gold in another country & yours just raining stone, your homeland is the better place.

So Adamastor don't blame us for the legacy (reads as shh1tt) you left behind & laugh at us while we stumble to right the wrongs, rightly or wrongly!At least we have a say every five years unlike HKG where there were none during colonial days & the last 10 years the powers that be decided to have elections....Too little too late!

To all Malaysians, Selamat Hari Merdeka! May we be able to chart a better life for ourselves & our future generations.

p.s. that includes you too Old Ace.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

Safe Flying.

[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 24 August 2000).]

[Slasher]

Oh so thats what the fuss is about. Merdeka day = when the locals threw the poms out. Fair enough.

Up till now I thought your Merdeka day was the day Dr M first sat on his throne.

[OldAce]

Every race or nation in the world have their good guys and the bad guys. The British colonial powers was not that bad overall. They left more good for the country than bad, especially the educational system. Without their historical protection we could be part of Southern Thailand or part of Indonesia or some powerful pirates where situation could be much worse. For that at least we should be grateful.

For us free thinking in the quest for knowledge which is vital for progress will be lost if the Taliban takes over power. As it is some of them are removing the teaching of Darwin in schools as it is against their religious belief. There are many more.

The American and British are not that bad after all. With their might after the 2nd World War they could have made themselves the new world master over other nations. Instead they develop the United Nations. America formed on the basis of freedom have their checks and balance. They might not be 100% perfect but I think that is the best the world can come out with after centuries of evolution and revolutions. Here we are still living in a pseudo Feudal system even as we profess democracy. It’s a world of patronage. And we don’t have much choice either at this moment in time. Like I said before “Its better the devil you know than the fanatics you don’t”

I shudder to think what terror it will be for the world if the Taliban is a major power like USA or Russia. Maybe the world of living things will not exist then.

"The people always deserve the leader they get"


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 25 August 2000).]

[occidental]

My colour has nothing to do with the issue, which you have missed completely. But then adamastor, all you've been able to do is pass judgement and not contribute anything.

I don't agree with the way the brits, americans, aussies, indians, chinese do their thing. The operative word is "their" and who am I to criticise them? Unlike you I wasn't put on earth to pass judgement, especially on a subject that I am not fully conversant with.

Shouldn't you change your handle to "GOD?"

[residualvolts]

To all that r here "Happy Merdeka Day". Let us, all races, come together and make a better Malaysia n a better MAS. Rid of all those Bad Rats today n forever. Only YOU can do.

Its not about races is about how we say hello, good evening or good night. Say it because u want to say it and really mean it. Don't forget, we all serve under on God, Allah what ever u want to call him/her. For the Taliban forces, please only to yr Taliban kind and not to others whether muslim, non-muslim or lain-lain.

Make life not KILL it! Life is short eg Gulf Air

MERDEKA!!!!!!!!!

[OldAce]

Another favorite trick of the Taliban management is to deny you landing currentcy into difficult airports. A good example is the old Kai Tak airport in HongKong where some skill are required to make an approach into runway 13. What they do is not to roster you for a period for as long as 3 years. Normally under the old rule you have to be checked out again by an instructor if you had not landed at any airport for 1 year. Not so during the Taliban management time and we had one case where the pilot scrapped an engine there and there were many near misses for a major mishap.

Most Jumbo departure are in the late evening for a short or medium night-stops. Most pilots hate to get up early (5am) for the HKG flights and spend the whole day flying with little allowance. In this case the Taliban will roster you to do HKG everymonth even though your turn do not come 3 months later.

There are Taliban pilots who never do the LAX flight from either TYO or TPE as they are afraid to cross the Pacific Ocean and also having to do the Mexico run. One got the shock of his life when he had to do an autoland on runway 24 LAX with part of the landing run down to 100 feet RVR. He later said, I always though it is sunny California. Little did he realize that the sea fog can move in suddenly.

Another airport dreaded by pilots is Mexico City (7000 feet elevation and MSA of 12,000 feet) one of the worst ****t airport to go to. They will give you 3 changes to the arrival clearances as you are navigating around the mountain peaks all above you. They will descend you to below safety height and declared total ground radar failure and then ask you to do a VOR approach in IMC condition and at night. 24 hours after arrival in LAX from TPE you had to get up to do this flight hoping that you had recovered from jet-lags. You normally don’t.


“Under Taliban Law, air safety is just thrown to the wind”


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 25 August 2000).]

[Rollingthunder]

Tremendous word count in this topic.
Based on all this information, I'll make two decisions without prejudice.

Add MAS to personal airline blacklist.(shudders)

De-select Malaysia as a possible good time holiday destination.

[Adamastor]

PILOST, you are absolutely right about one thing - Merdeka Day should be a day for charting a better life for you and your future generations - SO SHOULD EVERY OTHER DAY! Does it happen in Malaysia? No. Is any effort being made? No. Is any nation in the world perfect? No. But they're a whole lot better than yours!

People should be commending OldAce for his slightly imperfect 'rantings,' if only for the fact that he is making an effort at bringing the truth to light, unlike others, who bury their head in the sand and say that everything is wonderful!

Placing the blame on colonial influence is simply laughable. By your own argument you've had a lot of years to clean up the sh!t 'they' left behind. Perhaps if you'd looked to the Poms a bit more you'd have a democracy instead of the sorry, dressed-up dictatorship that tries to pass for government in Malaysia.

occidental, you are a halfwit, my friend. If your colour has nothing to do with it, WHY DO YOU CALL YOURSELF OCCIDENTAL?!? Could you possibly be any stupider?!?

[OB 1]

pilost,

with reference to your stolen generation of aboringinals in Oz. I know that there is a concerted effort for unscrupulous individuals in Australia to promote that notion. Allow me to enlightened you, I have seen this first hand and a lot more that sickens the soul. The stolen generation was not confined to aboriginals. The government of the day took all abandoned and orphan children. The aboriginals have an appalling track record for family welfare.

Just go to normanton or groote island and see the squallor they CHOOSE to live in. Aboriginals have a habit of going "walk about" leaving the women to raise as many kids that the men have bred. Women often hand over their kids to 'lations and never return to get them. The government of the day had the best of intentions and that was too stem the fatalities of children. It is interesting to note that it has taken several ganerations for them to complain, why? Because it makes the lawyers fat and it is that scum that are behind the promotion of the stolen generation concept.

I don't know much about other countries except what I hear in the media. I suspect that those reports are as misleading as the stolen generation issue.

Don't forget it was the Brits that came here bearing gifts, it was the natives that initiated bloodshed. If the french colonised Australia first then you would have a repeat of Viet-nam. Australia has no such history.

I hope this sets you straight.

Regards.

[OB 1]

Pilost,

With reference to your stolen generation in OZ comment, Please allow me to retort. This is a subject I have first hand experience in.

The so called stolen generation was not confined to aboriginals. The government of the day accepted all abandoned and orphaned children. The Australian aborigine has an appalling track record for family welfare. The men have the habit of going on "walk about" leaving all the kids they have managed to breed with the women and taking no interest in their upbringing, the women in the mean time are overloaded and pass the children around the 'lations, rarely coming back to retrieve them. The kids are abandoned and left to die, abuse is in store if they kids stick around.

The government of the day attempted to stem the alarmingly high fatality rate in aboriginal children by taking the kids to feed and educate them, the kids must have liked it because there was nothing to stop them from leaving. It is interesting to note that it has taken several generations for stolen kids to complain about this issue, Why? because there is a dollar to be made, no records to substantiate that they were stolen but only accepted as abandoned kids or handed over by their parents. The lawyers are the ones stiring up this particular hornets nest and the media love it.

I don't know about other countries except what I hear in the media, if those stories are as misleading as the stolen generation issue then I would not place too much faith in them either.

I hope this sets you straight.

regards

[PILOST]

Thanks OB1 for highlighting your experience down under.It's amazing & ironic that your country is facing the same worldwide condemnation as Malaysia.

FYI in Malaysia, a so called 'greenie' AKA Bruno Manser is highlighting the plight of the Penan nomadic tribe in Sarawak. Circumstances were slightly different though.The Penans adopted a 'slash & burn' (not enviromentally corect) nomadic agriculture life.They also had a high illiteracy & infant mortality rate.The government then decided to reeducate them to manage land properly & give up their nomadic lifestyle.This was then misinterpreted by the greenie's as a violation of their rights.The question now is should we let the natives be left behind & fade away or embrace them to the 21st century?I guess this is where our nations problem parralel.Again it's sobering to know that you have yet to fully recover from the said actions by your government.I guess we can never please anybody but ourselves as only we are aware of the full picture.

Adamastor, Malaysians are charting a course for themselves EVERYDAY!The results of the last general elections speak for themselves.The present government lost two states to the oppositon (Islamic based party).One of them, Trengganu is rich with oil reserves!The rest of the results were a close call & majority votes were seperated by only single or 2 digits except in the urban areas.Malaysians are getting better educated everyday, & definitely through time & a newer generation leadership we'll better ourselves.Just look at USA, it took them 100 years to abolish slavery & another 100 to accept responsibility of mistreating the African Americans.Do remember the Poms, the Frogs & other European nations were colonizing them beforehand.

Malaysians are aware & thankful that the British left behind a good structure for the judicial,educational & governance of our country.But they also left us a system where the ethnic races were seperated economically.Namely the Chinese were running the busineses,the Malays became farmers & government servants & the Indians were left to be labourers.This was called "DIVIDE & CONQUER".The problem couldn't be solved in a generation.Look at Indonesia, South Africa & recently Zimbabwe.So let us as a sovereign nation handle it our way, like you said no government is perfect.We don't want to turn our country like Russia & Indonesia, where immediate & absolute embracement of democracy caused fragmentation of their nation & nationals.

BTW I have nothing against Old Ace for his postings but just the distortion of his facts.Other than that it's fair game!

Rollingthunder, why don't you fly here on a different airline & experience our wonderful country personally rather than concluding your mind through internet postings.I guarantee that you will definitely have a better view of us Malaysians when you leave.

Safe Flying,

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[occidental]

adamastor, my handle seems to bother you more than the topic. I may be a halfwit but that's a lot better than being a dimwit like you.
I presume you are from down under, nobody else is that arrogant. One of these days when you dare to trace your ancestry back to the prison ships that transported your forefathers to that prison-country then tell us about honesty and integrity and democracy. If you are unable to graduate beyond your personal attacks and blighted views then I suggest you apply a little brain before posting.

[Zippo]

Pilost, I am not going to get into a debate with you over the Penan situation. However, you should try to find out some information on what's going on in Borneo now. I think you will find the Penan may have been relocated out of the way! You say they used "slash and burn" agricultural techniques but I doubt if they used chain saws and Bulldozers. I doubt in days of old, the rivers reaching the coast were oozing, as they do today, out into the South China Sea!
Does it drive you to frustration to see the Haze back again? How many Politicians have been creaming it on that Haze Committee and do they ever go home at the end of the day and say to themselves. "what a great day at the office today", I wonder if they work in smoke free environments?

[Grapes]

Occidental,
I agree with you...who else can be that arrogant? Let me tell everyone, they are just a bunch of ignorant humans, very ignorant (unfortunately). What do they know? Living in a nutshell, what can they do? Sad, very sad. The funny thing is, aome of them feel that foreigners are now "invading" their piece of land a.k.a GAFA and are telling them to pi$$ off.. Hahahahahaha, then maybe they should all go back to their cells! Get real guys! Get out and see the world!

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Kudos Old Ace

There is no doubt that you have raised real issues and that some just can't take the truth. I must admit that in some instances your anger gets the better of you but what the hell, current MAS management has that effect on most people.

To Steelbird, are you trying to promote yourself as some bright management pilot, reporting that you have access to the FDR information etc ?
To start with, your cavalier statement SH!T happens is quite apt as it seems to happen all the time! Do we have to take your word that the information you stated with regard to FDR information is correct.
Besides, where did you attend your accident investigation course and what are your credentionals NTSB !!!!
What was the heat source that caused tire deflation?
What actions were considered during engineering and MEL consultation?
Was actual LDG WT verses Computed LDG Wt a factor?
With A/SKID U/S was thrust reverser failure considered?
What was the tyre temperatures at departure time with regard to the previous landing and what was the turn around time and was this sufficient for adequate cooling.
Regarding WX considerations these are the tropics lad, therefore RASH is always on the cards. I challenge you to have a public debate world wide on this site by publishing the CVR/FDR information in toto and let the world decide.

To my friend PILOST who is still searching for the inbound radial. Why give Nik a hard time. He got us a substancial pay rise that was not rejected by the MAPA membership, he was responcible for the departure of Camel and he helped a lot of the boys during that time of hell with certain management pilots calling houses and parking outside to see if we were really sick, you know what I'm talking about. Furthermore the gift of the gab is a god given asset and he has used it well to earn money for the company when those around him are in the red. Why do you get jealous? is'nt this exactly what you accused OldAce about in relation to the young commanders on the B737. So double standards eh!!! So what if he is young, check the profit and loss sheet and he is making the bucks, thats why he is still there while the recalcitrants that are flushing money down the drain are trying to get rid of him.
With regard to the Penans, slash and burn is not their modes operandi, they are not agriculture based but hunt and gather.
It is obvious that you have never been inside the jungles of Borneo your ass would pucker and you balls would retract in fright.
Better stay safe in an airconditioned flight deck.

To all, think about Merdeka and what it means
what we have not achieved and where we are
going.

Wooblah.

[gaunty]

Hmmmm
Pity, but having been observing the tit for tat from both sides of the argument and whilst I do not have any direct knowledge of these and other events being discussed, I have been around long enough to know that if it walks, talks and quacks like a duck then it probably is one. Recent events generally confirm my instincts.
I am sure there are a few good men around too, but on balance, I will be recommending to the companies with whom I am associated, that notwithstanding their delight with the ground and cabin service, to not renew the business travel arrangements that use Malaysian services until the flight ops dust settles a little.
In the larger scheme of things, they would hardly get on the radar, but in a democracy this is called voting with your feet and more importantly the people are too valuable to expose to what appears to be a higher risk than is available elsewhere.

[Grapes]

gaunty how childish of you...
what can I say? you have just taken a peep out of your nutshell... that's why..

[Glideslope]

grapes & occidential, from my point of view, you are the ones who is "katak di bawah tempurung". The Australian culture is not based on exported prisoners, but the hidious, exploitive & damnation of the poor and oppressed of England and Ireland, under British subjugation and a tyrannical justice system. Those "prisoners" were in fact, young men & woman, who stole to survive for themselves and their families in the majority of cases, and not just common theives. The "Transportation" policy amounts to one of the greatest shames of the British Empire. Again your quotation is a distortion of the facts, loosely racial, and emotively irresponsible.

With typical British arragance that could only arise out of a warped, distorted, class oriented, patronising society, you both should know better. Malaya was subjugated as well.

If you consider the history of Malaysia, we are also community of "imports." (Look at our diversified races and our origins).

Maybe we didn't arrive on prison ships, but recall our nautical background; some were in fact pirates, which is essentially criminals of the sea. That is not something to be proud of. I wonder if they are now flying with MAS? Should we now cast dispertions on everyone, because of this?

Kuman di seberang lautan tampak, gajah di pelupuk mata tiada tampak.



[This message has been edited by Glideslope (edited 27 August 2000).]

[milleniumdinosaur]

It's difficult to understand why someone is a dimwit for stating the obvious.
I don't see occidental as flaunting his colour and racial heritage just by choosing that name. Neither would I think that glideslope is incapable of flying a non-precision approach because of the username he chose.
The level of attack is unbecoming of so-called professionals.

As for the aborigines in Australia and the Penans in Malaysia ..... well, one would be hard-pressed to find a link between these two and the so-called Taliban regime in MAS.
Unless, of course, one is a dimwit.

[Captain747]

Talk about patronising and racist Glideslope - You've given a very superficial and glib, but rather naive overview of the 18th and 19th Century policies. Also a very 20th-century view, of history, from what appears a biased and anti-British viewpoint.

There is no greater polemic than that which originates from political decisions made decades or centuries ago. So no amount of reason can change your mind - but would it not be better to allow that different times had different minds and what appeared right then cannot be justified now.

To make such a sweeping statement of such breathtaking ignorance belittles yourself not the British.

To paraphrase 'your whole post is a distortion of the facts, loosely racial and emotively irresponsible'

Occidental what on earth has the fact that some of Australia's forebears arrived in prison ships got to do with Adamastor's possible origins. Australia has one of the better societies in the world, and gets little credit for it. You should be celebrating their success, not sniping at their beginnings.
Quote: 'If you are unable to graduate beyond your personal attacks and blighted views then I suggest you apply a little brain before posting.'
Occidental I suggest you take your own advice - it's very good.


Grapes, Gaunty is quite right and I agree totally with his post. It's not childish to care for the people and not wish them to be at risk.

[OldAce]

I know what the Taliban are trying to do with this thread. Deflecting and confusing the issues to something else, as you can see for yourself.

Well anyway I've got an interesting article about the Taliban that would be of interest to you when you fly to Sydney during the Olympic period.


26.08.2000 - By JOHN ANDREWS in NZ Herald

WORLD EXCLUSIVE - New Zealand detectives have foiled a possible Taliban terrorist plot to target a nuclear reactor in Sydney, venue for next month's Olympic Games.

Partly as a result of a police investigation in Auckland, Australian authorities may order the Lucas Heights reactor, on Sydney's southern outskirts, to shut down.

The plot may have been hatched by Talibanic Afghani sympathisers of Osama bin Laden, the Western world's most wanted terrorist - a suggestion that is believed to have raised alarm in official circles.

Weekend Herald sources revealed that members of what appears to be a clandestine cell of Afghan refugees in Auckland continue to maintain direct telephone links with suspected terrorist organisations in their
strife-torn homeland, including the Mujahadeen, a fundamentalist Talibanic Muslim volunteer group.

Detectives in Auckland stumbled on the apparent reactor conspiracy during an investigation into people-smuggling by organised crime syndicates.

They conducted a series of house raids in March and found evidence suggesting a conspiracy to attack Lucas Heights:

* The lounge of a Mt Albert home was converted into a virtual command centre, complete with conference table and maps.

* A Sydney street map was found with the site of the 1950s era reactor and access routes to it highlighted.

* Entries in a notebook outlined police security tactics, standards and chains of command for the Auckland Commonwealth Games in 1990.

* Signs of a clandestine cell of refugees granted New Zealand residency.

Agreeing that the evidence had sinister overtones, a senior detective told the Weekend Herald:

"It is circumstantial and suspicious. If it was not for the Sydney games, they [Australian authorities] would not be so tetchy. There is quite a bit of interest there."

Copies of the seized material had been sent to Australia.

The detective said the fact that an Iranian refugee possessed police tactic notes could be construed as an attempt to work out how police would respond in certain situations.

Readers could conclude that police methods were similar throughout the West. The big question was: why did they have those notes?

"The worry is they can fly out, do the job and come back in," he said. "Why do this if you are trying to get away from the nastiness? There's something funny about them.

"The average refugees want to make a home for themselves, get away from difficulties they confronted in the past and relish peace and tranquillity."

The marked street map showing Lucas Heights was in the possession of a man from the Iran-Afghanistan region, who claimed he found it inside a National Geographic magazine he bought at a garage sale.

The messages on the map, seemingly in Western-style handwriting, appear to indicate the author has some knowledge of police surveillance measures.

It is understood no arrests have been made connected to any anti-reactor plot or anti-Western criminal conspiracy,butinvestigations are continuing.

Investigators believe that, while most refugees are probably genuine in their efforts to obtain sanctuary, the ultimate aim of those involved in clandestine cells is to support, finance and create mayhem
in countries such as the United States.

New Zealand residency is especially attractive to them because they are more likely to avoid suspicion when entering target countries on New Zealand passports, said one investigator.

Police say the cell they uncovered consisted of about 20 mainly Afghani refugees in Auckland who, they believe, have been
familiarising themselves with the Western way of doing things, possibly as a forerunner to foreign forays.

Delving deeper into the cell's affairs, detectives began to suspect some newcomers were using the relative obscurity and remoteness of New Zealand as a launching pad for more sinister activity.

They found strong indications that at least some had military training and were engaged in armed conflicts before being granted New Zealand residency.

Photographs of new New Zealand residents brandishing AK-47s point to their earlier lifestyles.

Officers believe some refugees granted residency have fought previously in hotspots such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Bosnia,
Chechnya, Somalia and Sri Lanka.

The Auckland police investigation has revealed another worrying aspect- the frequency of trips supposedly near-penniless refugees have made to Southeast Asian countries such as Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia.


Bin Laden, for whom the United States Government is offering a $US5 million ($11.65 million) reward, is a multi-millionaire Saudi extremist living under the wing of the ruling Taleban in Afghanistan.

Accused of motivating Muslims worldwide to commit terrorist acts, he has told his followers that their only means to reach heaven was to attack the United States and Israel.

Department of Immigration statistics for the past two years show about 200 Afghanis had their applications for refugee status approved and 17 were declined.

Police revelations have prompted official alarm on both sides of the Tasman.

New Zealand law enforcement agents are liaising with their counterparts in Australia, the United States, Canada and Britain while trying to keep one step ahead of potential terrorists.

The Sydney Morning Herald reported calls in April last year for the Lucas Heights reactor to be shut down for the Sydney Olympics, as Atlanta authorities did with a smaller research facility there before
the 1996 games.

The Herald quoted a leading anti-reactor campaigner as saying nuclear authorities in Australia acknowledged a potential terrorism threat when they increased security at the Lucas Heights reactor during the 1990 Gulf War.

Melbourne's Herald Sun newspaper reported, also in April last year, that Australia's spy agency - the Australian Security and Intelligence Organisation - was investigating claims that bin Laden was trying to recruit members in the city.

ASIO and counter-terrorist police were on alert following sensational allegations which emerged in a court case in which an Iraqi national was accused of attacking a family for refusing to join bin Laden's
extremist Muslim group.

©: New Zealand Herald


"A Taliban is always a Taliban, finding whatever means to go to heaven. The same goes for you too, the Taliban in Malaysian Airline"




[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 27 August 2000).]

[milleniumdinosaur]

I was under the impression that there was/is no conscription/national service in Malaysia and that joining the armed forces was on a voluntary basis. If so do we forever owe a debt to someone who joined on his own volition, and should the civilian world have to pay for his choice? If the war had gone the other way would we consider these people traitors?

[occidental]

If Australia has one of the better societies in the world then I'll give them credit for it. But in my travels I have never come across a society that is so bent on telling everybody how good they are and how undemocratic everyone one else is.
Politically an Asian may be a first class citizen. Tell me what class they are socially?
In over 30 years of travel Australia is the only country where I've been abused verbally and physically for being an Asian.
Tell me again what a great society they are ..... and how much credit they deserve.

[OldAce]

"On Merdeka day I think I fly the flag at half-mask. Until the day the people of Malaysia really acknowledge by kind, the sacrifices of the military for contributing to the peace in Malaysia. A Captain in the army is only paid M$145 a month for having both his legs blown off by bobby trap. A deceased military family is not treated any better, their children are scattered everywhere.. Even the communist terrorist of Malaysia were given better treatment, they are given lands and business grants when they surrendered in 1989.

To my old friends in the services who had died, some very young, don't worry one day the people of Malaysia will acknowledge what you had done for your country. At least you are spared the agony of the discrimination of some of the management in Malaysian Airline"

[OldAce]

milleniumdinosaur

Ok let me put it a simple way you will understand. You are living in your million dollar house in the countryside. A band of robbers came and want to hurt you and your family and take away all your goddies and burn down the house. A group of local volunteer vigilante pass by and saved the situation. Would you be grateful to them. If one of them is hurt in the scuffle would you also help him. No!

So that is the role the military played but in a big way.


A typical ungrateful Malaysian.



[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 27 August 2000).]

[Kaptin M]

Occidental, racists exist EVERWHERE in the world, but are usually a minority.

Nowhere else - except Malaysia - have I had to pay TEN TIMES [yes, 10 times] the amount a local pays to have a telephone line connected. RM1,000 for matsallehs, and RM100 for Malaysians.

Nowhere else - except Malaysia - have I consistently had taxi drivers try to cheat me, by either not turning the meter on, or covering it with a cloth, taking me to be a tourist, and trying to charge exorbitant fares - because I am a matsalleh.

Nowhere else in any proclaimed democracy, in the world - except Malaysia - have I witnessed the night-after-night brainwashing on national television news, where the introduction is ALWAYS "Prime Minisiter datuk seri doctor Mohammed Mahatir said.....".

But I am slightly bemused, occidental - you say you are an Asian, yet your handle is "occidental". Which is it?

[Grapes]

occidental,
I am sorry to hear about the way you were treated by the convicts. I totally agree with you regarding the way they feel about themselves...
Let this Merdeka Day remind ourselves that we should not be fighting amongst ourselves but amongst the foreigners who look down on us. I know someone is going to come up with the words, without us, the foreigners, you Malaysians are nothing. But let me remind you, don't think you can talk/act like this guy called Al Gore, who talks/acts in our country like as if he is here to recolonise our country again. Remember all Malaysians :-
Be Wary of Western Ideas ! Understand their Intentions !

[Ignition Override]

As for so many replies, it must be a very thought-provoking topic, or do some remarks here have nothing to do with aviation? Here is one such set!

I've enjoyed my few visits to Britain, but someone mentioned Britain's policies on shipping people overseas in the 19th century. Didn't a member of Parliament (Peale?) create drastic changes to the criminal codes in the late 1800's, because before that, at one time, over 120 crimes were capital offenses? Stealing a small bit of food could mean the gallows?! Britain wasn't the only country with harsh penal codes, from what I've read.

Singapore's laws are not very different today, are they?

[milleniumdinosaur]

oldace, i posed a question albeit a hypothetical one and you are obviously incapable of giving a coherent answer without a personal attack. You do your cause an injustice when you go around with your eyes and ears closed. Open up your mind and hopefully with some lateral thinking you can overcome the bitterness that has consumed you.

[coffeemate]

Kaptin M, you've been on prune long enough to know that the username may have no connection to the real person. I believe occidental has not said that he was white so why do you guys jump to this conclusion.

If I were to believe the usernames then the conclusion I could come to is that you can't spell Captain, oldace was really an ace, glideslope can't fly ndb approaches and milleniumdinosaur was 100 years old. We know none of this is true.

Suggest we leave the nick alone and concentrate on the topic posted.

occidental, racism is rampant everywhere. But I agree with you that it is more evident in Australia than anywhere else.

[Glideslope]

Captain747, ditto! As polemic as you may think what was said, they are facts. I am not able to enter into a comprehensive discourse of British colonisation (subjugation) policies and practices of either century you mention for obvious reasons. You are rather defensive?

Suffice to say that the legacy of the British is a tarnished one, in many of its colonised nations. However Commonwealth countries that have embraced the ideals of the Westminister system of Government are by far the most progressive in the world, in regards to democratic process.

The British certainly left a positive legacy, as noted by Pilost, in an earlier post. Your insinuation that I am biased and Anti - British is very much wrong, but let me make it quite clear, that those policies and practices of the past, were and still are, disgraceful, and it doesn't matter whether it appeared to be right at the time, or not. If that was the case then the Nazi final solution was also right at the time. Yes??? (I know, the holocaust never happened, it's just zionist propaganda.)

Cap74, my comments paradoxically enough reflect yours, particularly the last paragraph; as you say, it is irrelevent what the origins of a nation are! But by becoming racial about origins is derogative and non-constructive, like many other issues on this thread here, religious, personal, slanderous etc etc. Simply disgusting or irrelevent.

Ibarat membasuh muka dengan air liur.

[gaunty]

Game set and match.

I rest my case. :rolleyes:

[occidental]

Oldace, that was a very interesting analogy you thought up. It says more about you and your thinking than all your posts combined.

[occidental]

And incidentally, why the great fuss and bemusement over my username? I'm Asian, and for those of you who are interested it was a mis-spelling of the word "accidental" ...... accidentally, as it were.

[milleniumdinosaur]

FYI Kaptin M taxi drivers in other parts of the world rip us off too. This isn't confined to Malaysia. And as for the news the Western media led by CNN do a fantastic job too ..... if you want slanted news.

Every country has its failings. We are not perfect in the West ..... in fact far from it. If we are willing to condemn other nations we must expect some reciprocity. And accept some blame for our mistakes.

[Kaptin M]

coffeemate, I have to take exception to your statement that racism is "more evident in Australia than anywhere else." How about South Africa, and perhaps a lot closer - Singapore. I have seen an advertisement in a shop window [at Parkway Parade, East Coast], that read, "Female shop assistant, 18 years old wanted. Must be Chinese."

Similarly, when I first moved to Kuala Lumpur, and saw a house "For Rent", I rang the number, but was bluntly told "No matsalleh!"

Racism of the previous two examples is illegal in Australia - but no matter which country, you can't FORCE people to not be racist.

Grapes, please don't start on the "Re-colonisation" cr@p. That is a tactic that Mahatir resorts to, when he's trying to divert attention from something that is generally threatening his "integrity".

Milleniumdinosaur, the taxi drivers in Malaysia proved themselves to be CONSISTENTLY the most deceitful, dishonest bunch that I have experienced anywhere - and that's saying a lot!

I don't doubt that most of the Malaysians who have had an input on this topic have a genuine interest to see Malaysia pull itself to bigger things. The problem seems to me, that [as is evidenced here], most people are all pulling in different directions, because they have their own agendas, rather than everybody reaching some compromise, and working as one.

[Grapes]

Kaptin M,

Mate, who ARE you? Another nut case...
Your posts are of a typical foreigner, looking down on our system. Please refrain from that, KM. Who do you people think you ARE? What? Asians are dumb and naive? Imposing your culture and systems into our minds? Get lost!

[occidental]

Just another example of the patronising attitude of the matsallehs in Malaysia. They know best and everything about Asia is corrupt, archaic and deceitful.
Why aren't you in your own country looking for a job? Whilst you happily work your way through Asia your govt denies Asians the same hospitality. And then you add insult to injury by telling us how rotten we are and how good your society is. How about giving us some credit for a society that has been brought up forgiving you for your trespasses and your arrogance.

Why don't you just go home and see how welcome you are without a job and living off welfare. Maybe then you'd be able to tone down your criticism and see how much better Asian society is than that of the decadent West. But you'd be alright because you're used to sucking off everybody.

[coffeemate]

KM, it's not difficult to go to any country in the world and find things that are different from what one is used to. That is the beauty of travel and an open mind. To condemn a whole country for the excesses of a few is juvenile.

In a forum with participants from all over the world an understanding of the sensibilities involved should go a long way towards making the world a better place. Isn't there anything in Asia you like? If so shouldn't you concentrate on the positive as opposed to the negative?

[CHIMBU 767 SAIGON]

Occie me old mate. Pull yer head in you moron
Aussies are proud of being oZ. It is probably a concept that is unfamiliar to you, juging by some of the comments on this entire thread.
We have welfare. Do you?
We don't take fools lightly regardless of race, but people with no self respect often find the racist card convenient. We are not squeecky clean, but that is not for the likes of you to comment on you mongrel .
Mind your furgin shop and we'll mind ours.
I'm on contract in Asia and it will be my pleasure to do the best I can to help my employer to build a better workplace than you've got.
Occi, I would really like for you to look up the proper definition of racist and to enlighten us all on what that might be.
I personally think you're a sheitstirring non-event. I just hope you are not a pilot.
To the rest of you: sorry, but he had that coming.

[steelbird]

M'sia is probably the only country in the world that discriminates against it's own citizens officially. Maintaining the divisions among the races & blaming the past & everyone else instead of embracing all it's sons & daughters as one.
The policies in place are not bridging the gap,they are only creating newer versions of it.
For those of you who call this the "Asian Way",please don't insult an ancient civilisation by using it as a codeword for your chauvinism to hide behind.The Asian way (if there is such a thing )if not the Universal way is selfless kindness to all your neighbours,treating them as you would have them treat you.You may start by pausing a while & imagine if you were brilliant & in need but could get no scholarship whilst others of lesser ability do .....

Let the brickbats fall for this one,but think about it.See a different perspective.

[This message has been edited by steelbird (edited 27 August 2000).]

[residualvolts]

Its funny, huh, while we talk about matsalleh like it is said here, MAS management still employs them while the locals r waiting inline to get in or out which ever the case may be. I find this very strange! Think about it this so call Merdeka Day that we r having. Say it because you mean it not because the government ask you to say it or put up the flag because its free. It doesn't mean anything if your country is not doing it for you but gladly doing it for others. Those others which will kick you out the moment you step in their Airline and/or country.

[Captain747]

Glideslope - quote
'With typical British arragance that could only arise out of a warped, distorted, class oriented, patronising society,
now if that isn't an inflammatory, emotive, racist slur - ........ it is also a very subjective view and definitely appears anti-British to me. The legacy of British Colonial Rule is tarnished because the inheritors were unable to sustain it. If you want to comment on history – research it accurately and thoroughly, not just the edited highlights. Don't repeat claptrap just because it suits a biased viewpoint and supports your argument.

As for your crass comment about the holocaust – I’ll just remind you that the British and Australians fought a long and bloody war against such tyranny, and no I’ve not forgot the other nations that supported us. Maybe, you didn't understand exactly how poor your judgement was in raising that issue - since some of my relatives died in that holocaust - about which I refuse to comment further as it is too emotive.

Glidestop quote:
But by becoming racial about origins is derogative and non-constructive, like many other issues on this thread here, religious, personal, slanderous etc etc. Simply disgusting or irrelevent.
strange how you don’t see in yourself what you so clearly see in others


Occidental
In Australia and UK there are Malaysians, Asians, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans and other nationalities working together. Additionally, we (Britain and Australia) have a policy of taking in refugees from many Asian nations and other countries – we feed them and clothe them at our cost, frequently for years. – can you say the same of your country. Australia may not be perfect, but it is one of the best and certainly head and shoulders above most other nations. It is a country to be proud of, they don’t bleat about their poor start nor about how British Rule has ruined the country – they just went and did what was necessary. Yes, I admire and respect them for what they’ve achieved – they deserve credit.

As for what you suffered – maybe your attitude had something to do with that – you don’t seem to like them and they probably realised that. A touch of arrogance in your manner perhaps, a certain degree of bitterness and resentment that they don’t treat you as one of them. Why should they, when you are so obviously bent on proving that you are superior to the ‘decadent westerners’.

Occidental Quote
How about giving us some credit for a society that has been brought up forgiving you for your trespasses and your arrogance.
Difficult when you show so little compassion or humanity.
Australia is not to blame for the ills within your society – you are and your fellow countrymen.

As for Australia being more racist - you obviously haven't visited some African / muslim countries recently;


Grapes, keep the nasty snidey remarks to yourself - the Australians may have descended in part from convicts, but they've created a worthwhile society - despite what Occidental suffered.. Tell the world what a wonderful society you have, if you can .


Coffeemate
KM and I have travelled for many years, and lived in and visited many other countries, cultures and societies – we do not blame these countries nor the people in them for their problems, only certain elements. We like other countries and their people (mostly); we actually love and are proud of our own countries (are they). Your comments would be better aimed elsewhere – especially at certain of the Asian contingent who find us (and our forebears) a convenient scapegoat for their current problems.


Steelbird quote

See a different perspective. WE DO – DO THEY

[Slasher]

No, not all Aussies stick up for Australia. I know I dont! Its the only place where islamic fruitcakes of the bin laden kind are allowed in with all the perks as "refugees". A bunch of islamics can blow up a building in Sydney and kill innocent people, but would they boot these dicks back to the sandpits they came from? Oh no way! These foreign terrorists have rights! Bloodey joke isnt it.
What ruins Malaysia and Australia is (and always will be) its politicians. The only difference is the Australian government cant use religion as a tool for brainwashing and controling the masses (although I bet they wish they could). And Oz pollies are just as corrupt, selfish and stupid as any other.
And never confuse what a government says or does as being representative of the people it supposedley rules. When Dr M says something inanely stupid it does not reflect on you guys. Nor should whatever crap Howard or Gore say reflect on normal Aussies and Yanks.

Oh and happy "We-Threw-Out-The-Poms" day.

[OldAce]

Kaptin M I’m sorry to hear that you are getting a taste of Malaysian life and its varied people. The taxi drivers are the same anywhere in this region. The moment they see a matsalleh (whiteman) they be out to fleece him, generally having the view that they are loaded. The Malays will look on him as the devil kafir after their dose of Taliban indoctrination, the Chinese well its just for the money. Along the way and as a result of the higher cost of living and the bad cases of people in the higher echelons embezzling the whole country, there is a breakdown in respect for each other and decency as we know it.

This country is as divided as it ‘looked’ united. The house you are looking for rent might have belong to a Fundamentalist Muslim who will not rent it to a non-muslim for religious reasons. The job vacancy in Malaysia might end with…Mandarin speaking only.

But what could become of Malaysia is very much more serious than all the petty stuff you mention. The country is pointing towards a change that is going to have a dire effect on its way of life. That is the rise of the Islamic fundamentalist. If they win the next election in 2004 then I think you will not want to work here or visit here anymore. Most of the Chinese who control 70% of the economy will pull out their investment despite the currency control. Recently the owner of Giant foodchain had sold all his investment and I think he is migrating somewhere. The foreigner (that will be mostly the matsalleh) will close their factories and relocate it elsewhere. That is why the PM Mahathir is drumming the people to beware of these elements almost every night on TV. He definitely is aware of the consequent.

In the Talibanic mind he is not bothered to worry about the economic implications and worldly goods as been seen in the Kelantan state and other countries like Iran and Afganistan. An Islamic country that in their mind is pointing toward heaven is much better than the misery of an economic downturn.

If you want to feel the state of mind of the Malaysian please go to:
www.malaysiakini.com (http://www.malaysiakini.com)

or

Newsgroup: soc.culture.Malaysia

[OldAce]

Something for all of you to think about:

Aug 18, 2000

THE OTHER MALAYSIA
Farish A Noor

'Moderate' Islamisation? Forget it

The recent statements issued by the leaders of some the Barisan Alternatif (BA) component parties calling on the leadership of the Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party (PAS) to rein in their over-zealous spokesmen and to stop "giving ammunition to the Barisan Nasional" are both timely and politically intelligent (Don't give BN bullets to discredit BA, says Syed Husin, Aug 4).

They come at a time when the ruling BN coalition is using every weapon in its immensely powerful arsenal to demonise the image of PAS and Islamists in the country, labeling them as the new "fundamentalist menace" that threatens to destroy the harmony and political stability of the nation.

However, it must also be noted that the calls for PAS to moderate itself and to limit some of its own excesses falls short of the pressing political realities of the day and will most likely remain unheeded, for understandable reasons.
At the heart of the problem is the deeper socio-cultural and political malaise that is rooted in the infected Malaysian body politic itself. After nearly half a century of independence we remain a racially, culturally, linguistically and religiously fragmented and divided nation where cultural animosity and mutual fear of the Other is often dressed up in the garb of multi-culturalism.

The state's own promotion of this form of multi-cultural politics is basically a feeble attempt to disguise the fact that we are nowhere closer to creating a truly broad and all-encompassing national culture today than we were 50 years ago.
Into this divided and contested arena have stepped in both the ruling parties of the dominant BN coalition as well as the opposition parties of BA. When the BA coalition was first launched about a year ago, many hoped that it would lead to a new era where the racial, cultural and religious divides would be overcome once and for all. The problem, however, is that the component parties of BA were (and are) part of the problem themselves.

Tables turned

Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, both DAP and PAS have been working hard to gain control of their own private and exclusive ethnic and religious constituencies. Neither party was really committed to winning over the support of those who remained beyond the pale of their own exclusive constituencies whose political boundaries were drawn along the lines of race or religion.

After DAP scored its big success in 1986, it hardly tried to allay the fears and doubts of the Malay-Muslim community at large. Now that the table has been turned and it is PAS that has come to the fore of the opposition coalition, we see history repeating itself with PAS dominating the opposition front.

There remains, however, one crucial difference between the politics of DAP and PAS. This lies in the obvious fact that PAS is a religious political party whose ideology is rooted in a theological discourse that conflates religion with politics.

For this reason the political and ideological frontiers envisaged by the ideologues of the party also happen to be moral and theological ones. Unlike DAP (or any other party in the country for that matter) PAS does not just recognise the difference between its members and its opponents.

The confrontation between PAS and its opponents is formulated according to a theocentric discourse which draws an absolute and irreconcilable division between the believers and the non-believers, the "good, pure and true" Muslims and the munafikin (hypocrites) and the kafir (unbelievers) as well.

This factor must be taken into account in our attempts to understand what PAS is, what it represents and what it wishes to do in the long run. It is precisely because PAS is such a religious party, driven by a theocratic and theocentric impulse, that it does what it does and promotes the causes that it chooses.

When the other members of the BA coalition call on the leaders of PAS to curb their excesses and to moderate their calls for an Islamic state and further Islamisation of Malaysian society, their appeals remain unheeded for the simple reason that they are unintelligible to the Islamists of the party.

Guided as they are by their own moral and religious convictions that what they are doing is right (indeed it can only be right, for nothing in Islam can be wrong for the Islamists), the Islamists of PAS cannot stop in their struggle to uphold Islam and to promote an Islamic way of life - albeit on their own narrow interpretation of the creed.
To expect anything else would be as silly as calling on a communist to moderate his critique of capitalism.

Realpolitik concerns

There are also some very real realpolitik considerations to be taken into account. PAS' fervent efforts to intensify the Islamisation campaign in Kelantan and Terengganu is linked to a number of profane political interests and objectives.

For a start, PAS is worried that it might lose control of Terengganu (as it did in 1961). It knows that its own record in the state will come under close scrutiny and that unlike the case of Kelantan, the people of Terengganu will still remember the days of BN/Umno rule when the next election comes.
The new PAS Mentri Besar, Uztaz Hadi Awang, also wants to show that his own hard-line approach to Islamisation works, in contrast to the approach of Nik Aziz in Kelantan and Fadzil Noor in Kedah.

PAS's new policies in the state of Terengganu may therefore seem cosmetic to some, but that misses the point altogether. What Hadi Awang is doing in Terengganu is trying to show that he means business and that he is laying the foundations for his own power base in the state in no uncertain terms.

This leads to the second important observation that needs to be made. PAS also knows that the only card it can play well is that of Islamisation. Regardless of the talk about transparency, good governance, accountability et al, it is Islam and the commitment to Islamisation of society that has always been PAS' selling point.

The party's social reform measures, which have included bans on unisex hair salons, gender segregation in shops, compulsory veiling of Muslim women, etc. are all directed towards one simple goal: to identify PAS solely and exclusively with Islam.
Related to this is the combined goal of robbing Umno of its Islamic credentials (something that is quite easy to do these days after the loss of Anwar Ibrahim from the ranks of the Umno leadership).

By pressing on regardless with its own Islamisation campaign, complete with its over-heated rhetoric and cosmetic reform measures, PAS is clearly well ahead on its way to elevating itself to the coveted position of being the only truly Islamic party in the country.
By making itself appear as the only Islamic party it also presents itself as the only viable choice to the Malay-Muslim electorate. The chain of equivalences, once set up, animates the party and gives it a life and identity of its own. PAS will not only be identified as an Islamic part: by default, PAS becomes the incarnation of Islam itself. All the other parties, be it Umno, Keadilan or PRM, will only be second grade poor imitations of the true one.

Unwavering trajectory

It is for these reasons that the appeals by the other parties of the BA will fall flat. PAS, despite the claims to the contrary, has always been a thoroughly political institution working within decidedly profane realpolitik parameters. Despite the scorn and abuse meted out to its leaders - dubbed "country folk" and "rural imams" - the leadership of PAS has shown that it is both politically astute and cognizant of the realities around it.
If PAS today shows that it is unable and unwilling to break away from its Islamist trajectory, it is for the simple reason that the party knows that this is the one path that will lead it to success. The formula works, and it can only bring them more victories in the future.

The net effect on the rest of the country, however, is less than certain. In its desperate and pathetic bid to out-Islamise PAS, Umno and the machinery of the state will invariably be sucked into the vortex of Islamisation as well.
Already we live in a society where Muslims have to come under the tutelage and policing of a complex Islamic bureaucratic network. Umno's attempt to out-Islamise PAS may well lead to an escalation of the Islamisation race, with ordinary Malay-Muslims bearing the brunt of it all and the Islamists being the ones who profit the most. We can expect more raids on public restaurants, bars, nightclubs and hotels. It may be a long time before we can go out for dinner in peace.

As for the attempt to build a multi-racial, multi-ethnic and multi-religious coalition in the country, we should be prepared for the worst. The fact that the leaders of DAP have not been able to contain the fears and disappointment of their own members is already a telling sign of how the BA coalition is beginning to tear itself at the seams.

These fears have been used against the BA coalition by BN and the BN-controlled mainstream media. But it must be said that the fears are also real, as are their agents. The reality is that in the world of the hard-line Islamists there is no room for compromise or negotiation: moderation does not work when one is fighting the cause of God on earth.

DR FARISH A NOOR is a Malaysian political scientist and human rights activist. He is currently writing a book on the Pan-Malaysian Islamic party, PAS.




[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 28 August 2000).]

[occidental]

Saigon, yes you've got welfare and you need it too, considering that you belong to the laziest race of people that ever walked this earth.
I am a pilot and have been one probably a helluva lot longer than you. What has that got to do with it? I may be a moron but that's preferable to being like you.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Captain 747 & Chimbu 767

These blokes would'nt have a clue about OZ, a short stint during flying school and the occasional night stop over the years.

Most of these jokers were spoilt brats living off Daddys money and govermental loans. Thinking they could throw their weight around like they did at home.

As you can see from the posts they went there with closed minds and preconceptions preprogramed into their small minds.

Hence their derogatory comments. These would be the first cowards to apply for refugee status to enter OZ should civil violence erupt. This explains their constant eructation.

I have met many Malaysians in Australia, most of which are Malays ( Muslims ) They reckon the place is fantastic, especially the women as they do not have to undergo circumcision, enjoy the laws against bigamy and have the right to a full education. This is especially true of the finacially less fortunate as the Australian Government provides financial assistance in the form of AUS STUDY etc.

The Malaysians on this site do not represent the vast majority of Malaysians. These are the privileged few, the rest could not afford a computer to reply to these threads.
The people I am speaking of are the Kampung folk ( Rural People ) some of these people are employed by the local pilots of MAS as servants. I have travelled through Malaysia, Borneo and Kalimantan extensively and a lot of these folk would love to immigrate to OZ.
They are hard working and the salt of the earth, it is a pity they do not have the resources to immigrate.

In South Malaysia ,Johore Batu Pahat area, Labuan, Sarawak and Sabah, Many of these rural people remember the sacrifice of Australian (RAR) and British servicemen and women duirng WWII, Many of whom lost their lives defending Malaya. The rear guard action of the Australian (RAR) at Parit Jawa is especially remembered by the older locals as the bridge was defended to the last man
( 500 approx )the wounded and dying were executed and thrown into the river to drown no prisoners or survivors were left, the Aussies have a memorial service there every year. There are many such stories that the older locals remember in Labuan, Sarawak, Sabah, and I am most touched when they relate it to me usually with damp eyes and typicall Malaysian slang like so young LAH! and handsome lah, they were good to us etc.

So don't be offended by a few of these MAS pilots, if you get the chance have a chat to the real Malaysian out in the bush (kampong ) and see what they say.

The truth is out there.

Wooblah.

[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 28 August 2000).]

[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 28 August 2000).]

[Slasher]

Occidental nah. Aussies arent the lazyest race but its understandable why it appears so.
Oz has such a highly punitive taxation system caused through a bloated socialist welfare setup. Apart from this system supporting unemployed hard-core dole bludgers, taxpayers funds are freely dished out for gay mardi-gras partys (yep the Sydney mardi gras is funded by taxpayer cash!), handouts to any "hard done by" minority groups, and of course money wasted on idiotic government "research" projects.
Given that, and the high tax on EVERY piece of income earned (I dont think for example the Malaysian government would tax you on your overnight or transport allowances), it is no wonder that Australians will not work harder or more often especialy if it pushes them into the next tax bracket (49%!!). Since moving to SE Asia its no surprise that I discovered the harder I work the more income I recieve.
Most Aussies will work hard Occidental for the right financial incentive. I know I work like a bloodey drovers dog here in Nam but thats because Im on a very good tax-free salary. If I got the same but at Australian tax rates and laws there would be no way Id work that hard, because half of it would disapear to the damn government.

[John Farley]

I believe we have a similar problem in Northern Ireland.

[NCC-1701e]

Captain Wooblah; Are you denying that there are Ozies who are racist or more specifically, anti-asian?

OldAce said;"This country is as divided as it ‘looked’ united."

I agree OldAce. IMO the root of it all, is our present No.1. He meddles in everything so he should be accountable. I believe he is doing his utmost to stay in power. Dividing all of us is to ensure we will always need a strong leader. Creating an impression of a fundamentalist threat will also accomplish this as well as weakening any opposition. Removing anyone strong enough to replace him ensures we have no other choice but him. This is a country with its own special brand of judiciary. Don't tell me you haven't noticed that the media is one-sided, so don't believe it without hearing the other side which i think we can't. I don't like the fundamentalist either but at this point, i'd give any other devil a chance rather than have the present one nurture more devils. He is responsible for giving MAS to 019- so, like it or not he is still responsible for the uprising of the "Talibans" in flight ops. I think its all his plan. As for the opposition taking over in 2004, Eheh... you gotta be kidding man. Not with the media on their side and all the tricks they have up their sleeves. IMO, it'd be better if he resigned. Give some health excuse like the Selangor MB. The fundementalist would lose their momentum his party will have support from the Malays again and all should be well. If he is well respected by his party, he could still rule from the background. I would certainly like him better when he isn't where he is. Happy Merdeka day to all Malaysians. Just don't translate the slogan "Keranamu Malaysia" (For Malaysia) into "Keranamu M-------".

----------

[milleniumdinosaur]

Unless I'm mistaken the Aussies were part of the rear-guard action during WW2 in Malaya ie when the Japs came all they saw was the rear of the Aussies as they ran. Nothing wrong with that ...... live to fight another day. And they've exhibited that same courage ever since.

[Kaptin M]

Millenium, I'll be sure to pass that on to my Father [now aged 81 years] who fought in Malaya, as it was known then - still speaks Malay fluently - who has to this day nothing but the highest regard for your countrymen, and who lost his best mate [by decapitation]to a Japanese soldier, whilst defending YOUR country's rights for freedom!!

[milleniumdinosaur]

My country???????

[PILOST]

Capt Wooblah, since when they appointed you the authority on Islam, an anthropologist & the brown noser to Nik?

Let me highlight to your ignorant mind that just like Christianity,there're a few interpretations of the Islamic way of life through the Quranic teachings & the Prophet Muhammad's conduct during his lifetime. Circumsion for women isn't mandatory in majority of the muslim population & under certain circumstances for men too.Bigamy was allowed & still practised till this day due to certain logical reasons.First & foremost, the need to have an offspring if the wife is barren.Secondly, to avoid vices where the women outnumber men in certain areas of the world.I could give more,but the bottomline to practise bigamy is that YOU as the MAN MUST BE FAIR to all your wives.That's physically,financially & spiritually!So please don't comment on matters you're not familiar with especially religion as you're indeed myopic in your thoughts.

Penans are slash & burn farmers on top of hunter & gatherers.How do you explain them eating rice,sago & cassava?Believe me, I don't come from the concrete wilderness of KUL but the serenity of the Kampungs, so don't tell me that I never been to the jungles!

Nik Whose Lan is the father of all hypocrites.After his salemanship act in MAPA he crossed the picket line & became Chief Pilot Nobody while holding the post as an Exco in MAPA.Fortunately,the membership woke up from his hypnotic spell & called for his sacking from MAPA Exco.He WASN'T responsible for the removal of Camel but the crash of MAS's F-50 in TWU did.DON'T TARNISH the memory of the dead crew by giving credit to the snake!BTW he never saved money for MAS.Remember the B737-300F fiasco in AKL?A/c was there for a week when no payment was made at all!Save money my 4ss!Let me not bring out all his misdeeds with the contract crew!You Capt Wooblah,definitely are one of his expat cronies,which means you're not better off than the people you look down upon!(FYI folks,they are Aussies)

Let me not impress on you my Oz mates, that MAS was your golden parachute during the 'Exodus' when even your PM said you guys were "overglorified bus drivers!".I felt for you during your hard times.So have a place in your heart for us.We ask for your understanding & not condemnation in our quest to make our national airline a better place.I am the first to admit that we're mismanaged, but we in MAS (the lowly workers)are aware of ALL the FACTS & are trying our damnest to correct it.It is easier to abandon ship than to stay & keep it afloat.

Capt Wooblah,every country in the world has it vices & shortcomings.I was in Oz & soaked up their carefree atmosphere.I am not daddy's brat nor was I on government loans.It's a beautiful country with exceptional people but I do see that you do have certain items in your own backyard to clean up first.Please leave your colonialistic & authoritarian attitude aside when making comments.Remeber the saying "Don't point to others as there're four more fingers pointing back at you......."

Safe Flying.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[asianpilot]

Pilost,

Interesting point on polygamy. In areas of the world where men outnumbers women, can women have more than one husband at any one time? It will help to prevent homosexuality.

Kekekekekek!

[OldAce]

Aug 26-27, 2000

Remember who Anwar was?

Malaysians, some say, have short memory. Who was Anwar Ibrahim from 1969 to 1981? He was all the time vociferous and critical of the government and Umno. Umno members (including the veterans), especially Umno Youth who attended yearly Umno general meetings in the 1970s, would remember that Anwar's anti-Umno speeches were debated yearly without fail because he used to continually lambast Umno and the government then (Mahathir was not holding the reins yet). He was then in Abim and of course inclined to PAS. Everything the government did then was not right.

He was never formally educated in Islamic knowledge. He graduated in Malay studies. Surprisingly even Fadzil Noor (lecturer in Islamic studies then), Hadi Awang (Islamic scholar) and other qualified people were under him (he was Abim president then). The reason being he was (is) smart in using other people. Some people who know him said that one of his characteristics was baling batu sembunyi tangan.

He was never a writer all his years in Abim. Suddenly, a book, The Asian Renaissance, has his name as a writer! Were all the ideas and ideals in the book his? During his Abim days, other than being critical of the government, his speeches were merely a sprinkling of generally quoted hadith and quranic verses. His favourites were of course nawaitu (intentions) and ittakhullah (do what God orders you).

All along he was anti-Umno. In 1982, he was in the embrace of Mahathir, joining Umno. But he was not qualified to run for the general election because the Umno constitution stipulated a three-year grace period. Out of the blue, his mother came to the rescue, claiming that Anwar had been a member and that she had been paying for Anwar's yearly subscription without him knowing it - charismatic leader at work!

Umno members who disliked Anwar were incredibly shocked at the reception given to Anwar by Mahathir. No one dared say anything. With the help of Mahathir, Anwar was able to defeat the well-liked Haji Suhaimi as Umno Youth leader in 1983, barely a year later. Fearful of Mahathir everyone played practical politics, i.e. follow what Mahathir wanted. Some said then, with Anwar in Umno, it was going to be the end of Umno - true enough, with the court decision declaring Umno illegal.

What has happened to Umno now? In hindsight, padan muka Mahathir, for refusing to listen to others views. Mahathir probably regretted the day he "wooed" Anwar!

For 17 years Anwar has been defending Umno and the government. Even the Umno veterans were known to begin despising Umno during Anwar's tenure of office under Mahathir because Mahathir had become so omnipotent that he cared for nobody. Anwar also seemed arrogant. He became a changed man.

In 1998, removed from his Umno and DPM posts, he came out yelling in CNN, condemning everyone he suspected to be against him. The Mahathir that he once embraced and adored became Enemy No 1. He reincarnated into his true self, the fiery youth leader lambasting whom he disliked. He was no more the suave debonaire Anwar in Armani suit or very expensive songket (of course not back to the old uniform during Abim days).

In court, he never mitigated. In both trials, he made use of the mitigation offered to him to make political speeches he missed during the 17 years in exile - only to realise that his wings had been clipped. All these perhaps were not directed for local consumption but rather for foreign consumption - to Al Gore, Howard, Amin Rais, Cohen, with love. Thus the outside bosses, having their own agenda, responded very well.

To all Malaysians, do not get so excited to those responses from outside. They may suit your need now because of your emotional state. These people have their own agenda. They definitely do not love Anwar or fight for his rights. Even if Anwar becomes PM they will hold him to ransom.

Be content with the freedom we have, though we have certain limitations such as not allowing us to protest outside the court on "judgment day".

ROF

[NCC-1701e]

OldAce said;"What has happened to Umno now? In hindsight, padan muka Mahathir, for refusing to listen to others views."

I am glad you agree :) , he is the root of our problems. But

OldAce said;"Be content with the freedom we have"

Err..Why? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif Do you support one sided media? Do you support confinement without formal charges or trial? Do you support OSA being used to protect personal files of the rich and corrupt?

[OldAce]

More democracy Down Under

Australia is a very democratic country - the prime minister himself is criticised and condemned week in, week out. It is normal practice in a democratically vibrant society.

And therein lies the incredible strength of the democratic traditions of Australia. Unlike Malaysia, where the democratic ideals have been severely compromised and abused over at least two decades, people are allowed to criticise those who run the government. And those who run the show are very aware that they had better perform or they would be thrown out.

For many Malaysians, this is almost unimaginable. Just try to picture every Malaysian adopting the manifesto of "The people are the boss" group in Malaysia. Very unlikely to happen for a very long time. Malaysians, it would seem, are destined to continue to be slaves to fear, twisted notions of "stability", and of course, the economic con-job of the half-legitimate BN.

As for Australians criticising the Malaysian government for their shocking treatment of Anwar Ibrahim, Tian Chua, et al, my only regret is that their criticism has not been much stronger. The government of Mahathir Mohammad needs a big kick in its backside. It deserves total condemnation on the world stage.

Australia, is of course, not perfect. Malaysia and other Asian countries should continue to be critical of Australia's record with its own indigenous people. On the other hand, the recent history of East Timor also tells us a lot about Australian values, and the contrasting bankrupt Asian inaction and paralysis, in the face of evil and violence.

Wenyah

[OldAce]

NCC-1701e said:

"He is responsible for giving MAS to 019- so, like it or not he is still responsible for the uprising of the "Talibans" in flight ops. I think its all his plan. As for the opposition taking over in 2004, Eheh... you gotta be kidding man"


When the naive 019 took in the group in 1994 he did not realise that they were Talibans. Anyway the Taliban were behaving as ‘normal pilots’ in support of the ruling government then.

Like I said before never underestimate the Taliban. Their networks and structure are more extensive and efficient than the one under Umno. There are more districts in the kampong than the city, and the Taliban supporter comes from the kampong mostly. To give you an example if a district in the city with a population 500,000 is pitted with ten kampong district with 5000 pop each, then the one holding the 10 kampong district with 50,000 pop wins. That's is the system that had sustain the present government for so long. Not anymore, in fact it is going against them, unless they comes up with something.

Previously the BN had depended on a lot of funds comes election day. This is not true anymore. The economic crisis of the last 3 years had wiped out most of this fund. For the Taliban where PAS is synonym with Islam they had no such problem.

Umno weaknesses is its lack of internal dissent (most all are 'Yes' men), men that comes up with critical thoughts and its own lack of constructive ideas. This is as a result of its neo feudal patronage system.

[Captain747]

Well Milleniumd - I'm sure that all the Australians who fought against the Japanese will no doubt be staggered by your statement.

Oh, sorry most of them can't, they're dead or still suffering nightmares from the torture and suffering meted out by the Japanese when they fought against them.

Next time don't display such ignorance, especially just to make a 'smart-***** ' comment. You never know when 'you and your country' will have need of those very people you now dismiss with such disdain.

[knackered]

occidental, do you live in Malaysia? Have you ever been to Malaysia? If so, then obviously you have been mistaking all those Indonesian workers for Malaysians. You will NEVER, EVER see a Malaysian doing manual labour, be it building or road works or whatever.

At least in OZ you must be an Australian to even get such a job. So how do you come to the conclusion that the Aussies are such a lazy bunch? You simply are making what amounts to bigoted statements of the kind that you accuse others of.

The impatient bunch in MAS that accuse foreigners of getting in the way of their advancement generally have spent about half the time waiting than pilots in other airlines.

Please don't think I'm tarring everyone with the same brush here, but if the previous posts have shown anything, it's that there are the same narrow minded individuals residing in Malaysia as exist all over.

Why do think you're so damn special as to point the finger? Don't you Malays(ians) have a saying that when you point a finger at someone else, you point 3 at yourself?

[occidental]

Jobs in Australia for Australians ...... that says it all.

And you expect the rest of the world to open up to Austalians too!!!!!!

[NCC-1701e]

A short break from all the political talk. I just recieved an unconfirmed report for my fellow MAS pilots; THE M OF U HAS BEEN SIGNED!!! (today, 30th of Aug). The management team tried to pull a fast one on us. Initially they refused to sign unless we gave up our first class rights. When the Assoc. rep threatened to leave, they conceded but nevertheless manage to persuade our reps to sign an agreement to agree to hold talks about our first class rights.

rumour no. 2 Mr 019- is gonna leave whats left of MAS to another one of his friends (with a duplicate name), to probably finish things off, early this September.

[Slasher]

Occidental, removing that big huge I HAVE A 3RD WORLD INFERIORITY COMPLEX! stenciled across your forehead will do wonders for your gaining respect from others.

OldAce the Australian intervention in East Timor had more to do with fait accompli than any bleeding heart value. Goes back to the Whitlam era in the mid 70s. Australia was more railroaded into it than goaded by moral conscience.

[Goldwing2000]

Calm down people!!! I have been observing this thread for sometime and I've had such a good chuckle at the stupidity of it all.This is a flying orientated forum not a political and racial boxing match between Asians and the rest. I can understand how politics,religion,racism gets in the topic,after all that is what life is made up of, but keep your emotions in check boys because it's a big world that's rapidly getting smaller and looking back into the past(let's never forget history)only stirs up the wrong kind of reactions as been protrait exquisitely on this topic over the last week or so. Like it or loath it there are bigots and racists in every country but thankfully they are only in the minority so as professionals and flying next to people of different race and colour from time to time, lets try to put our differences away and go back to the main topic at hand.
NCC,
Your rumour no 2 is very close to being a FACT,the thing is there's not much to leave to anyone especially since half the assets have been sold and leased back in one shape or form. I reckon we will know the outcome very,very soon and as for the first class rights they can ask but they ain't going to get,at least not for the time being and not without a damn good fight.

----------------
If you do what you always do, you get what you always got!

[CHIMBU 767 SAIGON]

Capt. Wooblah, thanks mate, but I was just fishing to see how big a moron he really was.
Now I Know.
I'm sure the majority of you blokes feel the same way that you do. I'm just happy that this particular moron is nowhere near me.
As for WW II, I'm happy not to add to the bad taste.
I've learnt something.
Go well guys, I'm outtahere.

[occidental]

I may be a moron but I didn't take the bait.
You did.

[MASystem]

NCC-1701e, Old Ace, Grapes, Old Dog, Occidental, Glideslope, Residualvolts,
Kurmitola, PILOST, Goldwing2000, etc ( you know who you are )

" Happy Merdeka " !!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by MASystem (edited 31 August 2000).]

[ManaAdaSystem]

I side with OldAce on this one. I´ve read through this thread, and yes, he is sometimes over the top, but he is more right than wrong. OldAce`s talibans exist. If they are connected to Anwar in any way i wouldnt know, but they are indeed very real within MAS. A halal airline is their goal. Why else do you have Iraqies with Jordanian passports flying for MAS. If they (managment) are connected to the dark forces that are trying to put Malaysia back to the stone age, well it wouldnt surprise me at all.

Ramlee is a total disaster to MAS. A major problem within MAS (and Malaysia) is that skill doesnt have anything to do with what you achieve, connections do. It`s on the same level as Hells Angels policy, you cannot be neutral, either you are with them or else you are against them. A managment that orders all commanders to depart with minimum fuel WHAT SO EVER, should have that 4 inch nail removed from their brain.

Camel? I remember him. He is not only incompetent, he is downright stupid. He gave me a briefing on MAS accidents and incidents once, back when he was Head of Flight Safety. Remember that Airbus that crashed on approach to Subang in the -80`s? He made a list of 20 errors the flightcrew did during that approach (no approach briefing, failure to monitor the approach, failure to tune navaids and so on). This aircraft was on its final flight for MAS, before it was supposed to be returned to SAS (leased from SAS). He summary of this accident: SAS had paid the pilots to crash the airplane. He also explained that the pilots should have known they were to low, because when they passed minima they could see the approach lights, and all pilots know you cannot see the approach lights because they are below the aircraft when you reach Cat I minima. Yeah, right! Its quite common in Malaysia, always blame somebody else and preferably the west. I guess Dr Mahathir has trained his citizens well.

On the other side, Mahathir is a crook. Nobody makes the Fortune 500 list as a Prime Minister without being one. But he is a good crook. He is doing a superb job at keeping Malaysia together. I dont like him, but still i admire him. Without him, who and what do you have? He gained my respect when he stood up to the Ayathollahs and said: We are modern muslims, we shall look forward not backward. By the way, im not a muslim.

Back to MAS, you guys have more problems than bad managment. How do you screen new pilots? Answer: You dont. A quick interwiew, thats all. Pilot training? Yeah, you recruit some from the air force. The RMAAF (royal excuse) guys were (are?) so bad, you kept them on a separate senority list. They crash all the time. Please explain to me how an Air Force C-130 commander with 8000 flying hours is unable to land a Fokker 50? I sure as hell cannot give you a good explanation.
Sending new recruits to OZ for 260 flighthrs, then giving them a type course on a B-737, hallelujah, youre a qualifed SO, does NOT improve flight safety. As a commander told me, he asked his brand new SO what he would do if he (the commander) died during flight. The SO was reluctant to say, but finally he voiced his opinion. "If you die Captain, i think we all gonna die". He is probably on the 74 by now.

I am an expat, maybe you have guessed, maybe you have not. Some of you may be a bit upset because of what im writing. I am after all just an expat, im not really entitled to an opinion. I give you your second problem. The expats. Giving jobs to foreigners are something you do because you have a good heart, not because we are needed. We are actually doing a service for your airline and for your country. We get paid. We do not recieve any thanks. We dont crave any. However, sometimes its nice to be allowed to have an opinion, but generally we are not allowed to. Its just a fact. Im a lowly, drunken, smelly, misbehaved, decadent orang putih. In the eyes of your managment and quite a few of your local pilots.

I dont work for MAS anymore. In fact i dont fly as a passenger on your airline if i can avoid it, despise the fact that you are among the cheapest airlines in the world. Or maybe because you are among the cheapest airlines in the world. I do however visit your country once or twice a year. Why? I love Malaysia. She is my paradise, despise all her shortcomings. I love the people. Not the extremists on any side, but everybody in between. The PEOPLE! Some of my best friends are Malaysians, Malays, Chinese, Indians and Natives. They are what make Malaysia great. I would like it to stay that way!

Happy Merdeka Day to you ALL!

[Blacksheep]

Selamat Hari Kebangasaan kepada semua pegawai dan kakitangan Syarikat "Mana Ada System"

*****************************************
Susah-lah! Mari, kita pergi tengok 'movie'

[kurmitola]

Guys..
The only reason the thread had gone this far was the fact that the MAPA forum was discontinued. The reason ? No prize for guessing this one. I'm still waiting for that news about the MOU and the contents. I've made a bet before and my friends that have left the company are still waiting to cry ( they have been saving their tears for months now...). How can you negotiate with the company when they ( the management ) had your B#**s in their hand by letting the flight departed with 3 pilots ? And got the cheek to talk about principles and sell out.
Had been driving to PD lately AIS and Gang ?

[Old Dog]

Just heard a rumour that the new MOU has been signed. No changes, all intact.

The pilots has been badly treated all these while. Historically, the HR people have always called the shots. Pilots were not allowed to bargain. It has been long in coming for the pilots to get a better deal.

Evidently the management is desperate.

[occidental]

The MoU has been signed. Now all we have to do is wait for the details. Is it intact or do all the pilots retire to that restaurant in Sri Hartamas ..... Souled Out?

[OldAce]

ManaAdaSystem says:

“Remember that Airbus that crashed on approach to Subang in the -80`s?”

This Camel the Taliban is a jinx in management. Everytime he held a post a plane crash. At that time (1983) he was the airline Safety Manager but that doen’t stop him from meddling in the rostering especially toward ex-Air Forces guys who are vocal against him. His favourite then is to fix the roster to make pilots he don’t like to fly MH 671/672 Kul-Sin-Bki-Sin-Kul dep at 0730 end duty at 1930 (14hours duty time) for 6 days in a row. As you can see the pilot on these flights had hardly time to rest. Arriving home at 2100 sleep at 2200 wake up again at 0500 for the same flight next day and so on for the next 5 days. Weekly duty period of up to 84 hours. Those days there were no CAP 371 to refer to. No wonder the Airbus crashed.

The A300-B4 was leased from Garuda and was supposd to fly to Sweden for a major overhaul the day after the crash. MAPA had protested many times when this aircraft was brought into service as a lot of instrumentations was not standardized to MAS Airbus. But Camel the Safety Manager not only overlooked all these complains but also tried to suppress them.

The real cause of the crash is selection of the wrong switch for the ILS approach. In the MAS Airbus it is a 2 position switch and in the Garuda Airbus it is a 3 position switch.

Anyway the co-pilot who did the fatal landing gave a lot of evidence against the overworked Captain. This co-pilot is now a commander on B777.


“Please explain to me how an Air Force C-130 commander with 8000 flying hours is unable to land a Fokker 50?”

I guess it the same case here, being overworked. A lot of these fatalities in MAS do not take into account the duty periods of the pilot before the crash. It’s no wonder, having Camel as head of the investigation team, especially with him having some personal and prejudices against the case.




[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 01 September 2000).]

[ManaAdaSystem]

Hi OldAce!

Im pretty sure that A-300 belonged to SAS at the time, whether it was first leased to Garuda i dont know.

Im sorry i didnt make myself clear conserning the airforce pilots. They kept crashing their airforce planes, and they did it a lot. Are they still kept on a separate senority list?

The C-130 commander in question was fresh from the air force. He was a good muslim, but not a very good pilot. He was however able to bring the plane near a runway, where the instructor had to take over and land.

84 hrs a week?? Then its not a question IF you will have an accident, it a question WHEN.

[OldAce]

ManaAdaSystem says:

“I’m sorry I didn’t make myself clear concerning the air force pilots. They kept crashing their air force planes, and they did it a lot”

I will not try to make excuses for the Air Force (AF) guys here. The kind of flying is different in the military. Its like comparing a tight rope walker and a man walking on a meter wide plank with side ropes as support. You can start flying at 6am fly the whole day and do your last landing at 12 midnight. You cannot complain as then you can get a nice annual report- Lack of Moral Fiber and the end of your career.

On the Caribou and Twin Pioneer it’s a written rule (every pilot knows it) to rotate below safety speed, otherwise they’ll never cross the obstacle in front. If they get an engine failure the aircraft will just flip over, no pilot in the world can get out of it. They don’t have to follow Performance A and balanced airfield and all that stuff as in the airline, otherwise they’ll never get airborne from an airstrip that is only 400 meters long with hills all round. Next they can be flying in a dead end valley over the main range with the wingtip just over the tree top at 45 deg of bank doing supply dropping, sometime with mountain wave or fog or thunderstorms brewing above. That supply had to get to the troops in the jungle otherwise they’ll be without food for days. And the aircraft they fly might be 30 years old.

Its hard to make comparison between the AF and Airline operations and safety records. Flying in the AF is like walking 1 mm from the edge of the cliff, whereas the Airline will keep at least 10 meters away.

But there is one level I can compare with. If given the efficiency level of the Airline to operate the AF, I think 80% of the AF planes would have been destroyed.

[occidental]

And even with that kind of margin in the airline they still consistently prang the aircraft. Doesn't say much for their training or ability.

[ManaAdaSystem]

We are getting away from the main topic here but ok. Operational risk is something AF`s all over the world take into consideration. Dont tell me all the Pilatus planes, and all the A-4`s that were lost a few years back (maybe still?) were due to obstacle limited airports? I watched an AF commander landing a Caribou once, right eng u/s. Perfect landing, but when he needed to backtrack he made a 180 to the left. First time i saw i Caribou making a tango on the runway.

Who owned the Airbus that crashed in KL in 1983?

Bad weather is the same, whether you are dropping supplies or landing at an airfield.

[OldAce]

Occidental:

Accident don’t just happened they are caused. All the accidents in the Malaysian Airline by AF pilots are caused by some despicable civvies management who for some other reasons best known to them, overworked these AF pilots by fiddling with rosters, excessive overtime against any rules and regulations etc. If the civvies airline management is so good how come they are ‘crashing’ a 744 every year for the last 3 years.

I’m coming up with “Discrimination of the Airline towards Ex-Air Force Pilots” soon. A whole new long topic that will expose the myopic mind of some people in the airline, another bone of contention.

ManaAdaSystem:

The Pilatus a/c belongs to the Police. One landed on the Subang highway one dark evening after an engine failure.

The A-4 Skyhawk disaster was another long story that a book could be written about it. A lot of meddling by politicians in procuring this aircraft and the fitments of advanced avionics in the 80’s. So much so it ended up as the “Flying Coffin” or the ‘Widow Maker’. Of the original 60 mothballed Skyhawk(15 years old a/c) taken from the Nevada desert only 28 could be used after cannibalism (in spite of the contract agreement that about 50 could be re-used). Malaysia would be better off then to buy 30 new Northrop F5-E’s for the amount of money that had been paid. Once again thanks to the corrupted civilian govtment who tried to meddle in things they know nothing about.

About the Caribou doing the Tango, it probably done by some ‘rookie’ pilot.
The a/c is perfectly able to do that maneuver that you mentioned. I’ve seen it done in a narrow airstrip where the aircraft cannot turn right due to trees.

“Bad weather is the same, whether you are dropping supplies or landing at an airfield”

I’m sorry to tell you I had to disagree on this one, its bad enough doing it in good weather. Its like driving a roller coaster on flexible tracks with 45 deg bank just over the treetops in a dead end valley in a mountanous region with one aim in mind to drop the supplies on a DZ that is 10 meter sq 350 feet below the trees. There is no go-around charts or ADF beacons or obstacles marked out, but you always keep in the back of your mind the escape route, if you can find it in bad weather.




[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 02 September 2000).]

[occidental]

Is it your contention that every accident that the AF guys get into is caused by bad management by the civilians?

That, to say the least, is stretching the imagination a bit.

Do rookie pilots only exist in the AF?
Aren't there any rookies in the airline?

Methinks oldass doth protest too much.

[OldAce]

What imagination is there to stretch anymore. In this age of lack of integrity and moral values where leaders will sell off its own kind for personal gain. Even some Taliban professing to be pious among his peers was caught in Surabaya having his “double sandwiches” not once but a couple of time.

Malaysian Airline is on its downward curve on its life history graph. Its just a matter of time before the whole system crash. All the fat vultures who had been feeding on it will fly away. Those who remains will have to feed on maggots.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Pilost,

no I am not on Niks team. Also I do not pretend to be an expert in Islam as you do !!
Perhaps you have missed an important aspect with regard to Islam "Treat your neighbour as you would have him treat you"

So you were a mas cadet big deal so daddy still helped you get in!!

Penans, sago grows wild in swampy habitat. Perhaps you are confused as to then ( how they really lived) and (now pertaining to currently)

Kampung Boy perhaps your great grandfather !!

Bottom line the truth hurts look at your responce.

[occidental]

Oldass, you're so blinded by hatred and your conspiracy theories that you cannot see that your reaction to every argument is the same as the taliban whom you condemn.
We can always find excuses for things that happen. It would take a courageous man to admit that he makes mistakes too.

[OldAce]

occidental:

I never said that it is a conspiracy theory. You go and find out if it is a fact, the evidences point to it. I am only voicing and condemning the concern. You cannot equate me with the Taliban as I had not brought any physical hardship to the Taliban. The Taliban have caused untold misery so much grief and physical damages to pilots. Why should I stop condemning them if “Do not do unto others as you would like others to do unto you” is not in their vocalbury.

When you Taliban engineered your own kind to overtake other seniors you say ‘dia punya rezeki’ but when the seniors not of your kind asked why he was bypassed, you say to him ‘nasib lah lu’.

‘Pergi mampus lah lu Taliban’

[ManaAdaSystem]

The Pilatus a/c belongs to the Police. One landed on the Subang highway one dark evening after an engine failure.

I stand corrected, the police, of course. The AF has some trainers, what type are they? They had quite a few accidents going back some years. If the newspapers were right back then.

[QUOTE]About the Caribou doing the Tango, it probably done by some ‘rookie’ pilot.
The a/c is perfectly able to do that maneuver that you mentioned. I’ve seen it done in a narrow airstrip where the aircraft cannot turn right due to trees.[/OUOTE]

Yes its possible, i saw it with my own eyes. I didnt believe my own eyes but thats a different story. There were no trees around, thats for sure. How rookie can you be when you are a Caribou commander? I have nothing against AF pilots, in most countries they are among the best pilots there are. How strange then, in MAS they seem to be one notch below the rest.

On the other hand, have you ever seen the face of a commander after his 260 hr SO selected flaps up when the order "gear up" was given? I tell you, it was not a pretty sight. He was slightly agitated.

By the way, does your 737 MEL allow you to depart with anti-scid system inop ? I know our MEL doesnt. I have spoken to a couple of pilots who have landed with anti-scid u/s, and none of them made the landing without blowing some of the tyres. And they went really easy on the brakes. What if you abort? What kind of restrictions apply if you use the MEL?

Another thing, it seems a bit funny to me that some pilots think their flying skills are above the rest, just because they fly the bigger plane. More status? Perhaps. Skill? I dont think so.

[OldAce]

ManaAdaSystem says:

“The C-130 commander in question was fresh from the air force. He was a good muslim, but not a very good pilot”

I would like to correct your statement, the above commander is a Chinese the late Capt. Wong a nice guy. All the major accidents were made by Chinese Captain. I’m not being racial here just stating the fact. The question now is to ask why?

The Taliban normally targeted the non-muslim (also some muslim one too)pilot first as far back as the early 80’s. As these pilot are more vocal and are able to stand against them. And also the fact the Taliban treats them as ‘kafir’ non-believer. So they were punished by having to do long hour flights that were beyond the norm. A lot of other stresses were applied to them that inin the end lead to accidents. I’m referring to the A-300 crash by the late Capt Tan and the F50 accident in Tawau by the late Capt Wong that have a number of fatalities.

That is why the majority of the senior Capt who had left the airline are Chinese. They are just pi.sed off with the treatment they get from the Talibans.




[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 03 September 2000).]

[ManaAdaSystem]

Sorry OldAce, i wasnt talking about the late Wong, i was referring to a totally different pilot, who i believe is still alive today. Hopefully he is not in the flying business anymore.
Seriously, you dont blame all accidents/incidents in MAS on overworked pilots? A contributing factor yes, but skill has something to do with it as well. Over the years i have met some really nice pilots, that in my opinion shouldnt be anywhere near a cockpit.
In case of the F-50 crash, why didnt the copilot intervene? In MAS the copilot is treated like dog****, regularly being told to shut up, and to never question the commander. They cannot function as the safety nets they are supposed to be. The less skilled the commander is, the worse he treats
his copilot and the cabin crew. How can he then expect the support he needs to carry out his job? Im not pointing my finger at anyone in perticular, only telling you what i observed to be a general rule within MAS.
I am quite frankly amased that MAS havent had more crashes, balancing on the egde like you do. I will not be surprised when the next one happens.

[OldAce]

For those who missied this forum........

[Goldwing2000]

You're right we missed it but was waiting for more input from your goodself.
Keep the stories rolling in.

----------------
If it moves, funk it!

[occidental]

Yeah, there's nothing to beat the bullsh!t that you spew.

[OldAce]

occidental since you talk so big....can you do better than this bull**** that you claim.

Better take your flying carpet and retire in the East Coast.

Anyway how life treating you since you born by 'accident'.

[Dr Mahatir]

ManaAdaSystem - your post of 31 August

So sorry, lah, only see your post now - too busy looking after investments, you see.

Crook you call me, ah? You forget about Anwar, ah? So please call me f***ing crook, and show me proper respect!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Hah! Youre not the real Mac Coy! If you were you would start with: Datuk Sri Doctor Mohammad Mahatir SAYS: So please call me a f***ing crook, and show me proper respect!

TV tigaaa, TV tigaaa!
Masa, dari Raymond Weil.

[OldAce]

Dec 5, 2000

Malaysia Airlines debts to reach RM8.6 billion

Leong Kar Yen


6.10pm TUES: The Parliament heard today that the long-term debts accrued by Malaysia Airlines (MAS) stood at a staggering RM8.6 billion ringgit.

Deputy Transport Minister Ramli Ngah Talib (Pasir Salak-BN) Ramli revealed this when correcting Dr Tan Seng Giow (Kepong-DAP) who, in his question on the government's plans to restructure MAS, said that the airline's debt was RM10 billion.

Tan added that Naluri Bhd, an investment company which holds the airline's chairman Tajudin Ramli's interest in MAS, was in the red too, with debts measuring RM900 million.
Tan also said that MAS' loss this year alone was RM200 million.

Ramli though, pointed out to Tan that the long-term debt was lower and asked Tan not to ignore the various excellence awards that MAS had won over the years.

"On the debt, it is not RM10 billion but RM8.6 billion. As was reported in the news lately, Tajudin Ramli and Naluri are working together with the Corporate Debt Restructuring Committee, to formulate a voluntary scheme acceptable to everyone," Ramli said.
According to news reports, the government has approved plans to buy shares belonging to majority shareholder Tajudin, and then selling part of the equity to another buyer in order to restructure the troubled airline.

"The Ministry of Transport is studying ways to strengthen the financial situation of MAS. MAS has also initiated steps to increase productivity and cut costs," Ramli said.
"MAS only began reporting losses in the financial years of 1997 and 1998 but gained profits every year since its founding except for the financial year of 1981/82."

Fuel prices

Ramli added that MAS' financial losses were due to the rise of fuel prices and the exchange rate of the US dollar.

"The price of fuel had risen from 52 cents a gallon to 70 cents a gallon and now stands at US$1 per gallon. MAS was also burdened with a RM2.5 billion debt due the rise of the US dollar," he said.

Meanwhile, Mah Siew Keong (BN-Teluk Intan) asked if the government was willing to sell MAS to be managed by a foreign company or airline, in lieu of restructuring MAS, and what the government's stance was on foreign ownership of MAS.

"In principle, the government feels that the selling of MAS equities to foreigners is to rise from 30 percent to 45 percent and discussions are being carried out, but no final decision has been made as yet," Ramli said.

Dec 5, 2000

MAS sacks cargo vice-president, industry happy
Tony Thien

"The best Christmas gift for the industry".

These words from Airfreight Forwarders Association of Malaysia (Afam) chairman Walter Culas best summed up the industry's immediate reaction to news that MAS vice-president for cargo Ralph Gotz, a German, had been sacked with a 24-hour notice by the MAS board of directors on Thursday last week.

Gotz was brought in by MAS chairman Tajudin Ramli in February last year to take charge of MasKargo Sdn Bhd, the airline's wholly-owned subsidiary, when it moved from Subang to Sepang.

He was earlier with a equipment system company which helped with the installation of the cargo-handling equipment at the state-of-the-art MAS Advanced Cargo Centre (ACC) in Sepang. According to industry sources, he came with little or no experience in the air cargo industry.

Since joining MAS, he kept an aloof posture, and was seen as intolerant to criticisms. This led to him ignoring the Afam, preferring to deal instead with the Federation of Malaysian Freight Forwarders (FMFF) as well as the Penang Freight Forwarders Association (PFFA).
Some of his actions were seen as pitting one association against another, leading to some ill-feelings between officials of both Afam and FMFF on representation issues.

Move ill-timed

The last straw for Afam came more than a month ago when MasKargo decided to raise certain charges and failed to consult Afam most of whose members, including many multi-nationals based in both KL and Penang, are users of MasKargo facilities and services in both places.

MasKargo went ahead with the rate increases only after obtaining a green-light from FMFF. Many industry players protested, and MasKargo later relented in the case of Penang by postponing some of the increases, especially the implementation of terminal charges.

Industry players said MasKargo's move as a whole was ill-timed because of uncertainties in country's economic prospects next year. The only issue they agreed on was the fuel surcharge which all other airline operators have varied from time to time because of the continuing rise in fuel costs.

Afam's Walter Culas said there is no need for MAS to look abroad for Gotz's replacement. "I am aware there are at least four capable Malaysians within the airline who can take over," he said.

The industry was "fed up" with the repeatedly "unfulfilled promises" made by Gotz to improve the service levels at ACC. This, it has been claimed, led to the loss of some of the business to Singapore.

Spider network

Between them, both KLIA and Penang handle about 650,000 tonnes of cargo annually. But it is believed this could be higher if the leakages to Singapore had been plugged with better and more efficient services at the ACC in Sepang.

News of the German's sacking by MAS spread like wildlife across the industry both within Malaysia and Singapore and across the entire region as MasKargo is fast becoming a major player.

It has set up cargo hubs in Europe based in Hahn, Germany, and in the Middle East at the Sharjan International Airport, after shifting out of Dubai in the United Arab Emirates.
This is part of what it calls a spider network extending from Australia to Malaysia and from the Middle East to Europe, a total area covering one third of the world.

Afam has been annoyed that instead of concentrating on improving its services at Sepang, MasKargo seemed to have been focusing only on setting up new hubs overseas.

Gotz's departure is seen by market analysts as the beginning of a major overhaul within MAS management following four years of continuous losses suffered by the airline.

Brunei has just sold its 9 percent equity stake in MAS for RM280 million or RM4 apiece.


Glory days

This will make it difficult for the government to justify paying Tajudin twice the price to buy him out completely otherwise it will be seen as another major bailout of a Malaysian corporate personality closely aligned to Umno, particularly the Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad.

Market talk is that government will in turn sell the shares to foreign parties, including either Qantas or Swiss Air. Talk is that prospective buyers prefer not to deal with Tajudin indicating that there are third parties involved.

It is also understood that the Treasury and the Ministry of Finance are not keen to pay RM8 per share that Tajudin has asked for.

Officials say the government's priority is to get MAS back on its feet again, return into the black, improve its image and reputation both at home and abroad, and regain its glory days.

On top of all this there is a need to lift staff morale.

TONY THIEN is a freelance writer based in Kuching.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Old Ace, the clean out is coming.
Gotz is just the tip of the iceberg, I believe that the SVP HR is no longer there and the EVP corporate services has moved.

QUESTION:
Why on his way out is the chairman cleaning house??

Regarding FLT OPS the changes are in the air I guess the SVP FO, VP's, & CP's must be feeling the heat!! And about time too !!

QUESTION:
What have the FLT OPS division done regarding
Manpower, Fuel optimization, pilot morale and efficiency, not to mention the cavalier attitude with respect to the brain drain of experienced captains that have left and are still leaving in droves to other airlines for better conditions. Dr Con's reply is " Go lah who needs you, you ungratful unloyal lah " What is this COST!, unquantifiable. What Have they done?? NOTHING !!!!

This leads me to HR & HR FLT OPS, these little managers that have been sitting keeping their chairs warm basically doing nothing but stuffing things up because they have no initiative and hide under the excuse that they have not been given instructions from higher up, but, in fact have done irreparable damage with regards to goodwill and loyalty to the company from staff. At the end of the day it is the pilot that can make or break an airline as he has his hands on the power levers, drag devices and chooses the levels.

Engineering:
Look at the brain drain to this department, no SVP or leader here. Probably the second most important department after FLT OPS. What good is all the cabin service awards when the aircraft maintenance is rubbish. But more importantly the cost to the airline if this department is not top notch is immense. MAS have become component changers and this has and will continue to cost the company millions of $US What has been done all these years. What about all the side scams. Kickbacks from vendors. engineering contract staff, sale of spares, component losses and unlisted losses of parts. where does it stop??

Catering:
What a place to make money example, menu calls for a 250gm steak so we cut it to 200gm's ( can you tell the difference, hey that's shrinkage from cooking ) thats 50gm's per steak we prepare 3000 steaks a day thats 54600kg's of prime sirloin in the pocket. The same goes for sugar, butter ect, how many pastries, cakes, buns, rolls and desserts do you think we produce a day?? These scams from purchase to pilfer must stop!!!!

These are again just the tip of the iceberg what about aircraft purchase, Atlas Air wet lease, the world airways DC-10 lease fiasco, man what's going on enough is enough.

MAS has been the goose laying the golden eggs these guys are so greedy that they are willing to cut open the goose and kill it for an extra egg. Where is the sense, where does it stop, it cannot go an any more.




[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 06 December 2000).]

[PILOST]

Old Ace & Capt Wooblah,

Nice to see that we're at least agreeable on the major mismanagement of MAS.Unfortunately some of the measures might be too little too late.

Hold on tight guys,this wll be a major shakeup for all of us!

Safe Flying.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

PILOST

[OldAce]

Extracted from Far East forum 'Melaka Flying Academy' which have relevance to this issue:

OldAce says:

Yes like I predicted before no one is interested to buy over MAS shares. At first Tabong Haji wanted to buy it ( I bet the idea was initiated by the Talibans to guarantee their positions in MAS) but to operate the airline without serving alcohol. Someone reckons to do so will incur more loss so the offer was left open.

It was in the papers the other day that Danaharta is buying it for RM$1.78 bil @RM$ $8/- per share. TR bought it for RM$$8/- in 1994 for only RM$$800 mil (I still got the paper cutting). He makes a clean profit of almost RM$$1/- bil. Where does Danaharta get the money, I hope not from the taxpayers fund again.

MAS present share value is RM$$3.50 up from its value of RM$2.50 when it was announce that its share will be sold to foreign market. . They mentioned about the overall value of RM$$5/- without aircraft sales (what aircraft ! almost all had been sold).

For your info I heard it was last year that the MAS Simulator Building had been sold to Boeing.

No asset a lot of debt it would be difficult to sell. Only a Govt. buy out at taxpayer expense can save, I hope, MAS. All those fella from Quantas,Swissair, etc will came enjoyed themselves with the MAS management and then disappears. All expenses borne by MAS again.

Tigerwood says:

In Asian Wall Street Journal, printed news about the selling of TR's stake back to the government @RM8 per share. Habislah duit rakyat lagi. I couldn't understand; if TR would have made profit, semua masuk poket dia and perhaps someone's too. But, when business not so good, he want to sell back at the same price he bought. Who doesn't want to do business like this!? Looks like Datuk B.A. is going to be the new M.D. The same person that have run the top management all this while. What have he done for the last 25 years? Same clown in different outfit(position

OldAce says:

Most of those who had made the Airline to what it was had either retired, resigned or being engineered out. They want 'Yesman' only. In MAS, the intelligent the honest the one with moral values cannot survive.

[BorneoPilot]

oh boy.....maybe it is not a good idea for a newbie pilot like me to get a MFA license conversion and then work in Malaysia....

what do ya all think?

[Slasher]

Borneopilot last count weve got no fewer than 18 aplications from current MAS 737-400 local captains, sitting on the chief pilots desk begging for even an FO position on our 737-200s.
Our high pay would be a major factor for applying but certainley not the overiding one.

I think that answers your question!

PS Our lot dont take expat FOs and all captain slots are filled at least for another 2 years.

[kurmitola]

Did you say 737-200 ? Am I seeing the right numbers here ? Cud not figure out any operator within 700-800 miles radius from KUL with that equipment plus higher pay, only one or the other. Please highlight them to me cos' I sincerely want to join the 18 or so guys.Pilost not only want to get rid of the expats, also could not stand any pilot(s) whom had done well for themselves.That is the typical mentality of most of the people here...jealousy. We have a few good and loyal Expats whom have served more than 9-10 years but what do we do with them ? Keep them on the F50 or 737s ....what a waste of resources. Only now we started to see a few trickling to the 747-200/300.BTW, have there been any explanation to the members regarding the last MOU yet ?

[OldAce]

Slasher:

You must have meant F/O on the B747-400. The very young Captain on B737 in MAS (after the glitters had worn out) now realized that they are getting less take-home pay then when they were on the B747-400 as F/O. Plus the work is harder, got to get up very early in the morning (like 3am), works 6 days in a week, and doing 5 sectors in a day. Plus they might have to wait a long time before they can smell the wide body like A330 or B777 maybe 10-15 years or more. And there is the retrenchment exercise coming soon and seniority doesn’t look good.

There are only 5-10% white expats left in MAS, maybe less. The rest are from Iraq with Jordanian passport, also some Iranians and Afganian.

The white expat are on the F50 and B737 while the Arab muslim are being promoted to the B747-200/300
at a pay scale of RM$5000 or US$1300.

WARNING to ALL: kurmitola the greatest liar East of Suez is a double headed snake…..one written by the older Taliban and the other by his younger henchman(most probably a Capt on the B737). Their writing tells, well at least the younger one write with more sensibility.

[kurmitola]

Slasher...Slasher...Hello ! It that true ? 747-400 or 737-200 ? Answer us , cos otherwise Old*ss will speak for you...and you dont know what crap he will come up with.Only old ex air-farce rejects will spend 10-15 years before they can smell wide-body command ( in the case of Old*ss), the rest ...1100hrs on 737s,then 777 or 330 here we come and most of us are under 30-32 years old. Where were you at that age oldie ? Ha...ha...haa....no wonder you are so bitter. Hey, hey....please tell them people about that 330 that has no more engines. Its infront of the hangar facing runway 14R/32L. And if you have time, please tell us about the seniority as well, I'm sure you are in the know all... :)

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

To Slasher & all prospective employers in the aviation industry, please take a look at the maturity level and responces by these pilots such as pilost & kurmitola and ask yourself, would you want these individuals operating your aircraft in any capacity!!!!

Perhaps they are like a mudguard, all shiny on the outside but full of you know what on the inside.

[OldAce]

kurmitola:

You still haven't told us how much you paid to that T.Osman from DCA in 1974-1975 to get your ATPL by sitting for just 2 papers. Pass in one go eh, hahaha my toes is still laughing. Most Taliban don't have the brain capacity to stand up to the old British CAA ATPL exams. So they do the next best thing they are good at - by paying bribes.

As for the younger kurmitola you must be damn good at hand signals to pass your ATPL in early 90's. There is a vacancy in TV1 for an interpreter a person who can interprete the news by hand signals to the deaf. You can apply for it whenever you get retrench.

You young guys still got 25-30 years to prove yourselves. What with the poor standard of maintenance in MAS hope you can come out alive. We old bugger had proven ourselves and we got millions in EPF to prove it notwithstanding the millions we had saved. Eat your heart out.


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 16 December 2000).]

[kurmitola]

Ha..ha...haa... yeah man, millions in EPF. Better spend them fast...you dont have that long to go. And Pfizer will very soon increase the price of viagra and I knew you have been spending a lot on that :) Woobbly Dude, dont get so serious okay, you know that 90 % of the stuff is craps anyway...its an entertainment for most of us except our old and bitter friend *ss. Dont get all upset about pilost or even me...you know we dont own the bloody airline and if theres anything we can really do, it wouldn't have been in such a state like now...playing the game and aeroplanes are not hard to fly except when all the a/c packs controllers are turn to 50 degrees and when theres no no steps in Sydney airport...that kinda thing, know what I mean ? ;)

[MAStake]

Oldass can sure spew crap. Must have come from the M'sian Air Farce.

[novice]

Are things really that bad in MAS? How about other airlines? I am sure there are some bitches else where too but how do you go about it guys?????

[PILOST]

Slasher,you sure local captains on the 737-400's?Or were their names sounded more arabic,something like Ahlan Wasahlan?The local Capt's on the 737's are clocking hours to get on the w/bodies,where after their endorsement & experience in the said a/c,they become marketable to the international job market.Then,can the said pilots answer TR's challenge to go up north or down south! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

Another note Slasher,MAS isn't the only 737 operator in Malaysia.Air Asia & Transmile have a few of those workhorses.

Safe Flying guys!
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
PILOST

[Goldwing2000]

I have been watching with hilarity Kurmitola spewing so much BS that I'm beginning to wonder if he actually own some pig farms.
Boys, as you can all see TR is a desperate man and the only way out of his grave is by selling to the Govt. Guess what? No one wants the damn airline after he screwed the crap out of it. If he can get the RM8 per share that he's looking for then he will be doing better then Houdini out of his stray jacket! KLM and Swissair have collectively said that their both NOT INTERESTED and even if they were they have plainly said that they would prefer to deal with the Govt instead of that arrogant pratt. TR is grasping at straws at the moment and pilot and cabin crew morale are at a all time low. The only reason that he came out with the three interested airlines as published in all the journals is to bump up the share price. What he didn't count on is, investors have one thing over him and it's called brains! It takes an olympic gold medal to be RM8.6 billion in debt and he's done it all without the slightest bit of effort. He's got to write a book on this as it's going to be an instant international bestseller.
The only operator of 737-200's on Malaysian registration are Transmile and incidentally are the only ones making any money.

-----------------
If it moves,then funk it!

[Al Salil]

Goldwing 2000: According to Swiss quality press, Swissair are indeed negotiating with MAS and in fact preparing for due diligence to be carried out.
Apparently, previous denials were either deliberate misinformation or a result of one part of SAir Group not knowing what the other is doing.

Here is the full article:

<A HREF="http://www.nzz.ch/2000/12/12/wi/page-article71HOZ.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.nzz.ch/2000/12/12/wi/page-article71HOZ.html</A>

[BorneoPilot]

To Slasher,

It looks that bad eh? from what I am hearing in the Melaka Flying Academy post, it`s a good time to come back to Malaysia to join MAS. is this true or someone is trying to screw me. By the way, I am Malaysian and currently doing multi-IR and CPL in Canada.

news anyone?

[novice]

Borneo Pilot,

Couldn't help laughing at your asking slasher for advice regarding working in Malaysia...Can't wait for his reply. What do you think MATE???

[Goldwing2000]

Borneopilot, Yes it's a good time for pilot employment with MAS but with the so called restructuring in the very near future then who knows what going to happen. You should count at least 8-12 months after obtaining your Canadian CPL/IR for the conversion so by the time you finish it will be early 2002 by which time things might look quite dire.
One thing that you should be aware of before entering MAS is their Bumiputra first policy as I've heard that even with the so called shortages around the airline has decided to nit pick pilots and not a single Chinese, Indian or other races have been chosen in the last 6 months. It makes one wonder how Malaysia can be such a racially diverse country yet the pratts in management are blatant racist. Their true Taliban colours are in evidence for everyone to see.

-----------------
If it moves, then funk it!

[Slasher]

Cant blame Novice for laughing because I dont work for MAS Borneopilot!
I just mentioned to you that our chief pilots desk have these aplications. A pilot wishing to leave his home country does so not just for the singular reason of financial gain. Theres usualy more to it. But maybe Im mis-interpreting the whole thing. Perhaps MAS 737 pilots are simpley far too underpaid for the work they do.
And before the thread reaches the point that Im told Im totaly wrong and that we run a fleet of Concordes and A3XXs, just read my first post again carefuly and try to not read into it what you want to read. I might have turned into a 40yo geriatric last month but I can still tell the diference between a 737-200 and a 747-400! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

[kurmitola]

But you havent answer my question. Who operates that equipment ( 737-200 ) and its so good that those 737-400 Captains from MAS ...18 of them had applied to join as F/O ? I'm really interested to apply as well...18 people cannot be very wrong..its worth a look and like you said not only monetary gain, its perks must be better then flying first class (FIRM) at id90 that we are getting here....enlighten me please Slasher...it will be of great help.

[OldAce]

Kurmitola:

"Please, please Slasher tell me" This is the second time you ask him if he don't want to tell why ask the second time. Most likely he will slash your backside before he tells you.

[PILOST]

Have to agree with Old Ace on this one Kurmitola.Maybe he's winding us up.He even accused me of being a racist when I would be called a nationalist by my peers.

Safe Flying,
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
PILOST

[novice]

Hey guys, I think we are getting distracted here a little bit. After all we are talking about the current conditions in MAS and how it came about right?

What Slasher said may or may not be true but certainly is veritable, that some of our 737 guys might apply to go to the outfit he is with, after all, so many others had applied and had gone to various other airlines anyway. So what!??!!!!

Besides Kurmit, I really don't think that he'll actually tell you where he's at for reasons you couldn't fathom perhaps? Regardless it is not worth begging pathetically over the forum..."Slasher..Slasher...tell me please.."" God...where did you come from? Are you the same guy who told the some of the co-pilots a few years ago to rally behind your new leader the Unta?

Slasher also tried to explain to you that sometimes people go away for reasons other than monetary. When you asked him again about bloody perks like Firm 1st Class with ID90 and maybe like where else can you have a breakfast for $RM1.00 (A roti canai and a small Teh Tarik) in a crappy, dusty, unsanity stall somewhere, doesn't that relate to "monetary reasons" too. Maybe other reasons includes: I hate friggin TR or I'm following that pussy back to China or the country kicked me out or shat what ever else other than monetary lahhhhh...

Besides, why are you showing off anyway? Are you happy just getting by in MAS getting first class travel and a few other diminishing perks? At the end of the day, cash is still king.
Imagine a Cx B744 S/O taking home close to $RM180,000 per year. How much do we get again as a B744 Captain? (After Tax)? Roughly the same right? Living here isn't exactly cheap either, for eg: A decent family car $RM100,000. A double story terrace $RM400,000. A trolly of groceries from Giant $RM200.00-300.00, University Fees for the children whom aren't fortunate or smart enough for scholarships,,etc, etc. It's not that cheap after all is it because we are getting used to the world's living standard more and more as each day passes by but with not much to pay for it, ie: Third worldly income, when the company is operating in a Developed world environment and revenue. Why are getting short changed for the work that we do?

I'd like to clarify that I am not Slasher's agent but it is annoying to see him having to explain over and over again to people who doesn't read into his postings, and in doing so you keep inviting him into the "Malaysia Airlines Pilots Only" forum. It's not about him. It is about the crumbling airline, the crumbling 1st class condition that you think so highly of Kermit. We're not!

We are in deep shat and for the most part of it, I kinda agree with what Old Ace said. It is a big shame that the politicians in the company hasn't got the capacity to properly manage the beloved airline. It seems that it really does not matter who heads what department, the end result will always be the same.

Did anyone hear about the "Imam" who heads the department of "Human Engagement & Marriages" got about $RM10000.00 in productivity alone? How could this have happened? Wasn't he supposed to be in his office instead of out there flying? The abuses go on and still we shud be thankful for the measly perks that we get?...till when?