What is the purpose if not to help each other?

[sooty615]

When I recently signed up to pprune I assumed that one of the site's purposes was for like minded professionals (and wannabees) to help one another out by way of exchanging information.

Recently I heard that an operator acquainted to me was looking for a Captain to fly his soon to be delivered jet. Naturally I thought that sharing this news with others would be in line with the spirit or purpose of pprune, but alas, it would appear not to be the case - my post advertising the opportunity was removed - and without explanation. I questioned the mod (Chris) who removed the post, but received only a curt pm one line response stating that "We decided not to bother with your post" - and one without even the customary salutations of hello, or goodbye.

More recently I noticed another short lived post from Pace, who was seeking two SIC's for a Citation. Again this post was removed. I know not whether Pace inquired as to why his post was removed, but if he did I very much hope he received more than the one liner I got from the charming mod Chris.

This evening I noticed that 4HP had removed contact details of Bexair, who someone had pointed out were looking for pilots - another instance of mods deleting the exchange of information related to employment opportunities.

Perhaps the mod charged this week with monitoring Biz Jets etc would be kind enough to explain exactly how we are supposed to relay details of positions we know about to one another, if not through a forum such as this - or would it by any chance be related to advertising revenue??

Perhaps also, as a matter of interest, I wonder if the mod Chris is small in stature, or maybe he works in an industry that requires him to wear a uniform?

I wonder how long this one lasts - and me come to think of it??

Sooty

[moggiee]

I am frequently baffled by the inconsistency and irrationality of the moderators on this forum.

[ssg]

Probably just trying to secure all the info, so only thier 'boys' get the jobs...rather then let everyone get a shot at it...

[SNS3Guppy]

I know nothing of the circumstances regarding any of the actions under discussion, but I will say I know 4HP, and have nothing but the highest faith in his professionalism and integrity. One would need to search far and wide to find a better man. You might well direct your criticisms elsewhere.

[4HolerPoler]

Thanks for the kind words SNSGuppy - it wasn't me who amended the thread this week - I tend only to delete threads when the advertising is blatant and it is clear that the advertiser should be paying for the service. However the general rule of this site is "no free advertising," a policy that is carried out with an incredible fervor by some of the more serious Mr. Plods on this site. I prefer to moderate than enforce a rigid policy.

4HP

[PPRuNe Towers]

4HP

I tend only to delete threads when the advertising is blatant and it is clear that the advertiser should be paying for the service.

Which was exactly the case.

I am looking for a couple of .... kicking off a post and then repeated the following day ain't no heads up. It's a person paid for doing a job recruiting others who will be paid to do a job.

That's a straightforward commercial transaction using PPRuNe. We object to that. At it's heart we object to it because in 11.5 years of running PPRuNe we have never issued an ad or press release and we haven't taken any money from you to view the site.

Despite never advertising there's a quarter of million now signed up. We don't demand any money from you to see the pages but the numbers mean huge costs to keep the site there in front of you every day. You can use your skill and judgement to work out how it is your forum appears today.

Our decision is not to take a penny from you but to pay for the site by charging people who want to get your attention as aviation pros.

In return the deal for PPRuNers is no tacky souvenir shop, registration charges, audio ads, pop up ads and, most importantly, sold off membership lists to direct mail organisations.

That's it, that's how we have chosen to do it.

Companies pay to get your attention and not the other way around.

Regards
Rob

[ewe.lander]

Spot on Rob, lets hope it stays that way too. :ok:

[sooty615]

To SNS£Guppy:

I wrote: This evening I noticed that 4HP had removed contact details of Bexair, who someone had pointed out were looking for pilots - another instance of mods deleting the exchange of information related to employment opportunities.

With respect Guppy, that was not a criticism, it was a statement of fact included to illustrate my point, which was to question the reason behind the deletions. I trust that 4HP is not as sensitive as you are because NO criticism was intended.

I accept what Towers writes, but where do the mods draw the line? If I happen to know that a particular company is looking for crew, may I pass on this information to others provided that I omit contact details?

Come on mods, why not spell it out for us once and for all?

[SNS3Guppy]

Come on mods, why not spell it out for us once and for all?


I believe they just did. You need it tattooed on your eyelids for constant review?

[PPRuNe Towers]

But we won't spell it out Sooty because every one reading the thread has already worked it out.

If I work for Company A and my mate is CP in Company B lets do a bit of friendly mutual posting for a free ride. And we continue the cycle of the site turning to mud every 18 months as we try to finance yet another set up. We're now up to 4 servers to keep up the service.

The mods do a brilliant job using their judgment as to when and where people are taking the piss.

Guys in companies take the mick because they know this is where people come in their droves because they want to - not because they are desperately scanning the jobsites.

Part of the mods' job is to ensure everyone is viewing it for free because we insist on companies paying for PPRuNe not the individuals viewing.

PPRuNe is on line this morning solely because the bills have been paid. We'd like to keep it that way and, again, we're not taking a penny from individual PPRuNers for the service we provide.

Rob

[plinkton]

Is there a website where pilots can exchange info on jobs and freely advertise?

Could there be a small section of this website where one could pay a small fee for a job advert which would expire after 10 days or whatever?

There is a slight gap that could be filled, offering cheap advertising either for or by pilots but for much less than a 'banner' type advert.

[Dream Land]

Sootey, this isn't the classified section of the newspaper, and I would like to inform you that loads of information is shared here, technical section is my favorite, I live in Asia and receive couple private messages every week asking me about conditions here, welcome to PPRuNe. :)

[PPRuNe Towers]

There's loads of sites out there with ads Plinkton. Some free, some not.

What they don't have is a regular, very large audience with each ad being seen tens of thousands of time a day.

That's why PPRuNe is so attractive to companies and to those looking for a free ride. You're here because you want to be here - arriving at PPRuNe isn't a distress purchase.

Small ads? We set the rate for a one month full size banner campaign pitched against a single day's hire of a jet freelance skipper.

One month of advertising for one day's wage.

Check it yourself: http://www.pprune.org/forums/advertise.php

Rob

[sooty615]

Towers, with respect, but the following text is that from a thread that YOU actually started:

VVIP SECURITY STEWARD REQUIRED FOR PERMANENT POSITION WORKING FOR A HEAD OF STATE WITHIN THE MIDDLE EAST.

PREVIOUSLY FIRST CLASS EXPERIENCE ESSENTIAL.

EXPERIENCE ON PRIVATE JET AN ADVANTAGE
1 MONTH ON 1 MONTH OFF
EXCELLENT SALARY AND ALLOWANCES
FULL YEARS SALARY PAID


Ok Guppy, spring to his rescue!!

[SNS3Guppy]

Looks like he's doing just fine all by himself. You'll not that I'm not the only one who's responded to you. Seems that perhaps you ought to take a vallium and relax for a while. You're a little tightly wound around the axle about all this.

Can the point be any clearer? I don't think so.

[sooty615]

Guppy, I just knew you would do more than just take the bait, but instead just gulp it down. The inescapable fact (as evidenced by Tower's blatant ad) is that there is clearly one rule for Towers when it suits him to advertise - and one rule for us.

To be perfectly honest I really don't mind spending £400 of any one of my principals' money to advertise pilot vacancies - and in due course when I will indeed be looking for a couple of G550 drivers I will most certainly advertise the posts.

The point of my original post, which seems to have got you wound up as much as me, is that I was (but am not now) under the impression that we could point others in the direction of vacancies we know exist - but now I know both sets of the rules I'll wind my neck in.

I can't promise though that I won't make any mention here of the ad I shall place in Flight, but I'll do my best try and stick to the rules us non mods have to!

Sooty.

PS Please do NOT pm me - the aircraft are a few months away yet!

[speedalive]

Yes, Mr Towers seems to have gone a bit quiet!!

[PPRuNe Towers]

Sooty,

It was a sponsorship scheme.

Two stewards with strong aviation backgrounds got jobs where they could go modular/ maintain currency/ pass and maintain ratings on full pay even while in the classroom. Not bad. In addition their CV's now stand out from the crowd as my lot paid for them to do advanced defensive driving courses and other types of training I can't detail from gentlemen in Herefordshire.

One out there now, fully qualified and flying the line. The other well on his way to qualifying after a sprog induced hiatus. When he's sorted that brings the number to 12 that PPRuNe has directly put on the flight deck.

Additionally mods get a chance to pop in an ad on occasion as a quid pro quo for all the work they put in and each and every one of them is offered the choice to use PPRune to support an aviation linked charity if they wish. The Oz mods go for Angel Flight, history forum supports the Shuttleworth Trust, private flying forum boosts the Imperial War Museum at Duxford and so on.

Whether it's with vast amounts of their time, helping out by PM, promoting a charity or getting people qualified or typed and working, the people who work on PPRuNe enjoy putting a lot back in because aviation's given us so much.

You'll note there's never been a word of follow up about that ad and the double sponsorship anywhere on the site until today. We don't shout about it. We don't turn it around into non stop sleazy PR guff.


Rob

[sooty615]

Rob, fair explanation - accepted.

[mutt]

Join Date: Feb 2008

I love people who join and within months they start dictating how the site should be run...... :):)

Sooty615, you might find that following approximately 12 years of devoting his time and money, PT might actually deserve the right to advertise Rolex watches if he so desires.... :)

Mutt

[sooty615]

Mutt:

With all due respect old chap, your previous posts show a tenancy to be confrontational - so it is no surprise that you jump in at the END of a debate with your crass remark AFTER I had conceded, and accepted Tower's explanation.

Yes, I am indeed new to the forum, but being so does not, I am sure, preclude me from pointing out the discrepancy that obviously applied in this case, that being a mod advertised, and then later deleted posts of others for doing exactly the same!

Prior to your post I accepted Towers explanation, and agreed to wind my neck in - but you, (at .866 posts per day for the last umpteen years) clearly had nothing better to do than try to inflame the situation by winding your neck in.

The thread started with an innocent question - are we here to help one another or not? Clearly we are, but with limitations which are now fully appreciated and understood by me - as previously admitted. What, other than keeping up your daily post rate , was the point of you adding nothing to the debate?

[SNS3Guppy]

Too bad you didn't wind that neck in a little sooner.

Now you're taking shots at Mutt...one of the more experienced and knowledgeable hands on the board, and one to whom it's better to listen than debate.

You just wake up in the morning and say to yourself, "self, today I'm going to piss in everybody's wheaties," or what?

[sooty615]

Guppy, you clearly got a bug up your @rse about something, so why not get it off your chest, or shall I help you out with a recap so you can see just what a pr@t you are making of yourself?

First it was a question regarding posting adverts.
Next was an explanation from the mods - ie, NOT permitted.
Then, undisputed I pointed to an ad that the very same mod placed HIMSELF
He then explained.
I FULLY ACCEPTED - and agreed to wind my neck in.

That should have been the end of the story......until Mutt had to add hiss tuppenceworth to keep up his daily post rating and add NOTHING to the debate, and then you, with even LESS to add have to have the last word!!

Which bit of the above don't either you or Mutt understand - the question was valid, the first answer from a mod was proved to be invalid, the explanation that then followed was accepted - and then two prolific posters join in to to do what - gripe because they sided with the losing argument? Get a life, don't be under the impression that more posts equals more experience, and find something else to do every day!

[Duck Rogers]

I'm not getting involved in this one because...well, it seems to be over. What I would say to anyone with feelings of largesse toward their fellow professionals is to do what I've done.

Pay attention in the forum as to who seems to fly what and PM them when you hear of something interesting. It's worked more than just a few times over the years.

[sooty615]

Diplomatic Duck! Good idea.

[SNS3Guppy]

and agreed to wind my neck in.


So you said, three times now. Yet still you prattle on.

I'd rather you just dry up. Enough, already. You opened the door.

[Pace]

My offer for two SICs was motivated by a thread by young pilots asking how to get jet time with little experience.

There was nothing in it for me by making that offer infact I had not even mentioned it to the owner and would still have to work out pay etc.

What gets me a bit is that there are always threads saying XYZ are recruiting or are there any positions and there are a stream of contacts etc put forward and that is all acceptable.

Because I put out an offer based on trying to help rather than self gain I am deleted twice.

I know my motives were good but I also appreciate you have to draw the line somewhere.

Pace

[Duck Rogers]

Pace, believe me when I say it pains me to have to delete such threads. We've all been in the position where we were looking to start our careers and most of us empathise with those in that position. Should I ever find myself seeking a new job this would be one of the places I'd look although the rules mean I'd probably not get much info out of this forum.

As you say, where to draw the line?