Gutted - Failed class 1 Ocular Muscle Balance

[peppl]

I just thought today would be a tick in the box but no, I failed my initial class 1 due to I Ocular Muscle Balance. Apparently on my right eye when I look up and right I have slight double vision. The AME said that I would most probably have been born with it and that unfortunately the JAA class it as a fail. He added that I would probably be okay to fly (his opinion not the JAA's). I do not think it has sunk in yet, I had marked this year as the one to start turning things around and finally be in a position to do what I have always wanted. It's like the rug has been pulled from under me.
Anyway, I just wanted to know if anyone else had been in this position? I did not get my medical denial form today, so I do not have the details on paper, but they are going to send it to me through the post.

[Kerosine]

Reading your post I can feel how disappointed you are. I'm sure failing a medical strikes fear into the hearts of pilots and those wanting to break into the profession, it's one thing you can't negotiate.

Can you gain a class 2 medical? You'll be able to fly.*

Hope you find something good comes of all this.

*edit: just realised you have a PPL.

[peppl]

Cheers, yes I forgot to mention, he did issue a class 2 so I can still fly. Which I know is still fantastic.

[AlphaMale]

I'm gutted for you.

Makes me think actually, I'm planning my training and have been saving for some time (just sold my other car tonight so another step closer) and 'm just taking it for granted that I'll pass my Medical with flying colours *excuse the pun*.

If somebody told me tomorrow I had no hope I'd be devastated! I'm sure I'd make the best of what I have and I'd just dig deeper into IT and go into contracting but .... it's not that same.

Can you get laser treatment? or is it defiantly the end of the road for you?

Sorry to hear the news.

[peppl]

Alphamale - thanks for the message. I'm in IT as well at the moment and I know it is not for me, it was going to be a stepping stone.
Re laser surgery - I do not think that is the corrective messure for what I have. It is to do with the muscle that contols the eye when angled a certain way (excuse the descriptive medical terms!) and it causes double vision at one point on one eye, basically when I look top right I get a slight double vision. It sounds worse than it is actually. I have not had any problems at all, flying, driving or anything.

[Fox_one]

Failing the medical is a real hammer blow. I failed the RAF med for aircrew (eyesight not 20/20) and it felt like my whole world had fallen apart. Its so frustrating because you can't do anything about it, its out of your control.

It takes a while but you do get over it and you can still fly so try and focus on the positives in time.

[RJCAP]

Had similar thing happen to me 5 years ago, given no options by AME, so I went to my local Optometrist with the results, who recommended another person at the local Hospital etc. They said they could train the eye with exercises, and be able to sustain the minimums, sounds weird, but it worked. Went back once I could exceed the requirements after about 4 months. Job done. AME was surprised and signed the paperwork.
Also you could probably look at going FAA, as the class one is by far less stringent.:ok:

[peppl]

Thanks Fox One.

[peppl]

RJCAP - Cheers. I'll try that, thanks. So what options to I have with the FAA then, I mean do I have to do all my training there? I was hoping to do Cats and the rest at PATS here in the UK. I thought that you needed a 'green card' or something to work in the US?

[preduk]

Pretty lame reason for them to fail your medical but then again they are the medical professionals.

Best of luck with your flying, don't let it affect you too much you still have your PPL which is better than nothing.

[BerksFlyer]

I really feel for you mate, I'm sure we can all empathise with this.

If you just want to fly commercially, maybe you could pass the less stringent FAA medical, though I don't know what their opinion on your particular problem is. You could then fly in the US.

I know that's a long shot as you can't just click your fingers and uproot, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

[peppl]

Preduk/BerksFlyer - thanks. Strange, Glasgow is where I went to college and Berkshire is where I live now! I'd like to find out more about the FAA route but don't you need a green card etc What about ICAO?

[RJCAP]

Start off by asking your local Optometrist for options first. Then if that is not good, then get your FAA. I have a few friends in the UK buzzing around in N registered planes, gaining experience, and a couple of thousand hours, to later go and get there JAA class1 medical and find out that it is far less stringent compared to when they first did it 10 years ago. Especially on the eyes.

[zapoi67]

You can also consider Canada. No need for a green card, and the medical is said to be much easier to pass than the JAA one. ;)

A question : are there differences between JAA states re the medical ? Maybe in Spain or elsewhere you could go through it anyway ? :confused:

[Arturo Lan]

Hey,

I had a problem with my medical in Mexico 10 years ago because of glasses, I went to the US did my FAA medical and passed with out any problems. Don`t give up!

One question, do you see double with one eye? or with both eyes looking up and to the right?

Cheers,
Arturo

[AlphaMale]

Looks like there is still hope for you. :ok:

[peppl]

Thanks all. Arturo Lan, it seems to be with both eyes looking up and right but only at a certain point ie I look up and keep going right, all is okay then I see double, then it's okay.
I've had a look on the Canadian Aviation Authorities web site and I need to get an expert opinion. Looks like a trip to Canada is in order.....always fancied myself in a float plane!

[expedite08]

Was this at initial at Gatwick? I thought they were a little more realistic now with the eyesight? since the new legislation came in?

[Rugbyears]

expedite08 yes in relation to visual standards which are controllable through prescribed lenses. A muscular related condition is somewhat different, although, am I not correct in thinking that most related eye muscular conditions can be greatly improved through specific eye exercises..? I would arrange a vist to a optometrist to discuss your possibilities...

Best of luck - things will work out if you exhaust all avenues!

[Parson]

If you really want to fly, don't give up too easily even if it means looking at FAA. My eyesight was borderline at initial and I only got in due being 29 and not 19 (ie it wouldn't get alot worse). Once you're in, AME's will go to great lengths to keep you flying. Get as much advice as you can.

Good Luck

[Hyph]

I'm gutted for you peppl. I have my Class 1 initial coming up in a couple of weeks and I know how I will feel if something I can't do anything about prevents me from flying.

I know we can't change anything but...

If I look up and to the right, I'm looking over the top of my specs and therefore don't have much in the way of useful vision in this area. If I want to look up and to the right, I'll move my head, not my specs.

What difference does it make if, as in this case, someone sees slightly double in this region? You'd think if a candidate has normal vision in the field of view covered by an average pair of specs, it would be acceptable.

[benish]

Just out of interest what test did he do to determine you had double vision when you look up and to the right. how could he tell?

I had my initial class 1 last week, passed it although I did have a problem with my eye. Aparently I have thick blood cells in there that make me bloodshot alot. I feared the worst.

[peppl]

Further to my previous reply - thanks to you all. Yes this was the initial test at LGW. Regarding what tests he did I am not sure of them by name but one where he asked me to hold a black contraption in front of my eyes and tell him what the white and red arrow pointed to. Then one where I had to tell him where a red laser (vertical and horizontal) lay in relation to a thicker red line. He then had me looking at the letter board again and held a rule in front of both eyes, the rule had some kind of lenses and I had to look at a letter and tell him when I saw a shadow. Lastly he held his pen in front of me, told me to focus on it and tell him when I saw double.
I have booked another appointment on Friday with someone to see if they can tell me anymore.

[Irish_Stu]

Really hope it works out for you peppl.

It does seem a little unfair, considering someone who wears glasses with a prescription close to the limits will have very blurred vision whenever they look outside the rim of the glasses, but I guess rules are rules.

Best of luck,

Stu

[benish]

RexBanner I totally agree, he was a complete up his own arse spoon!

[expedite08]

Have to agree, I would say he is just a little cautious! He shot me down for muscle balance. Said I could see the specialist, but it may not give any hope. Saw the specialist, no problems at at all! Renewals are much more straight forward, usually with the application of common sense too, so if the AME can see there are no major problems, your fine! ie if you have got a little thing like the muscle balance, as long as it does not inhibit your vision, its ok.

[BerksFlyer]

expedite08,

So you went to see the specialist and you got the class one in the end?

[expedite08]

Certainly did

[Arturo Lan]

Hi,

I went to my eye doctor yesterday. I have sometimes trouble with that, I feel I see double. Specially when I`m tired. The doctor did some tests like covering one eye while looking at a fixed point at a distance, then covering my other eye back and foth and when he uncovered both I did see double for a split second. He used the same test with a prism and I did not have the problem anymore. He told me I have something called endophoria or something and he prescribed glasses with a prism. Is this a problem for a class 1?????
Other than that my vision is corrected to 20/20.

Thanks,
Arturo

[daria-ox]

I have my class one medical coming up in the next few weeks is well!
I think there's nothing wrong with me. My eyes okay, I don't have double visions etc. But Im still worried that I wont pass, Im just really nervous about it. If I don't pass it.. it will ruin all my plans :(:ugh:

[Rhyspiper]

Sorry to hear about that Peppl, you must be so dissapointed, no-one deserves that!

Keep your chin up son!

[peppl]

Again, thanks to all. To be honest I feel quite positive. I have an appointment on Friday, hopefully this will give me a bit more information on it.
In addition I have looked at the Australian and Canadian vision requirements, I am no specialist but I may have an option there. Not sure about South Africa, the website was down. Any other options?
All I need to find out now is...if I know I would pass the vision requirements for another state, can I do the IR etc here and then go to my chosen country and just do the CPL?
I'll email a few schools tonight.

[Kerosine]

Peppl, as much as I'm sure it's been hard for you over the last few days, it must also feel good to know you've got the advice, support and experience of these fine members of Pprune behind you.

This is what the proon is all about :ok:

Good luck with finding a way Peppl, I'm sure you'll find it.

K

[peppl]

Kerosine, the advise and help from everyone has been fantastic. It certainly has made a big difference over the course of this week.

[Baatezu]

Parson ->

If you really want to fly, don't give up too easily even if it means looking at FAA. My eyesight was borderline at initial and I only got in due being 29 and not 19 (ie it wouldn't get alot worse).

Does that mean that if I'm 19 and my near-sightedness is borderline but still within requirements (-5.00 in one eye and -3.5 in the other) I can still fail the medical because of my age and the prospect of "getting worse"?

[Kerosine]

Does that mean that if I'm 19 and my near-sightedness is borderline but still within requirements (-5.00 in one eye and -3.5 in the other) I can still fail the medical because of my age and the prospect of "getting worse"?

Your optitician might be able to give you an educated guess on if your eyesight will deteriorate, although I have no idea what the Class 1 Med examiner would say.

I'm assuming you already have this info, but the sepcifications are found here if not.

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=68&gid=1250

[Baatezu]

Yes! That's the site I'd read but couldn't find again :} *bookmarks* Thanks. And CAA's official at that. Shame on me...

[Yahweh]

When I did the class 1 in Ireland I don't recall them checking my eyes to that degree, I did a colour chart test and a distance test but it seemed straight forward.
Usually when someone goes to a doctor for anything they always get a second opinion particularly if it is something serious, my point being this, I'm just wondering if you should maybe book to do the class one here in Ireland or another centre, don't tell them you failed it the first time and see if they pick up on the eye problem. O.K. it's gonna cost you some more cash but you may get lucky and find that they miss it or deem it as not serious enough to fail you.

[nickyjsmith]

PEPPL sorry for your troubles, definately see a specialist to see if they can help.

For the other people out there, it does seem eyes are a major failure issue, what about downloading the caa eye test sheet and getting an eye test at your local optician ? Mine charged £10 extra for the testing and report. So it cost £25 to get a full test before spending £300 ish on the class 1. I know you could still fail at Ggatwick but at least you are minimising the risk.

All the best to all.

Nick.

[DaveOEO]

Surely age cannot have anything to do with whether you pass the medical or not. If your eyesight is within the limits, then surely that means that you can pass!

I certainly hope so - as i am in the same boat as yourself!


:)

[peppl]

Hi All - I would recommend doing just that, downloading the requirements and taking them along to your optician. I did that a few years ago (a bit soon as I was not in the position to go ahead with it at the time), he did refer me to a specialist and he tested everything including ocular muscle balance, his letter stated "...showed orthophoria for distance and 6 prism dioptres of esophoria at near. The esophoria at near was fully compensated and as such is most unlikely to give rise to any visual difficulties or symptoms", now that was a few years ago, do these things get worse, I shall ask tomorrow. The CAA said that I was probably born with it and it would not deteriorate.
One other thing the CAA guy did mention (have I said this already...?) was for me to do everything here apart from the CPL, then go to another state and complete there (making sure beforehand that I do pass the medical there). Can this be done? Sit all the JAA exams here, the JAA IR, ME, night etc, then go to say Canada and do the CPL? As I said, this was his suggestion.

[Treeshaver]

I wouldn't trust your optitican, the only way ull find out if u can pass is by going down there and getting examined. Mr Chorley is the man who does it I believe.
Went to my optician back in 2000 to see if I met the requirements, he told me I didnt and that I was wasting my time. Was only in 2005 that I read a thread on here which made me think I was in with a chance, went down to gatters and low and behold, they gave me my medical!

So basically my aviation career is 5 years behind schedule as a result of listening to an optician!

Could have been an A380 captain by now!

[Parson]

Just to clarify my earlier comment re my class 1. My eyesight was right on the limit when I went for my initial at age 29. One eye under, the other slightly over - nothing unusual, just simple short-sightedness. I saw the top optician at Gatwick (in fact I think he was a eye surgeon) and yes age did come into it.

If I'd had that prescription in my late teens, then he would have known that it would have got worse in middle age. But at 29 he knew my eyesight had settled down and was happy to pass me. In fact the limits are more generous now and I wouldn't have any trouble passing an intial on eyesight.

The point I was making is, don't give up if there's half a chance. Some things are cut and dried like colour blindness, but others not so.

[Rugbyears]

Parsons - Hmmm....

I know, you say that, nevertheless several years ago, 3 to be precise. I was completing the PPL with a Girl who suffered with a rather serious case of Colour Blindness. By all accounts a definite no no in aviation. For this reason, you can imagine my surprise to recently find out that she had passed her Class 1 medical and is now in the process of completing Modular two of the fATPL examinations....Every opticians she had previously attended diagnosed her as suffering with a sever inability to recognise the colour Red.

I believe this scenario is a clear demonstration that most things are achievable if one puts everything into the effort and endeavour pot – Never give, as there is always a way; Classic example is Douglas Bader..!

Not sure, but could it have been a result opposite gender....Only joking!!!

[Parson]

Rugbyears - I'm no optician, was just picking on something that I thought was clear cut to illustrate a point, and it does it better than I intended!

[Duffer2007]

By the sounds of it the eye test in LGW is pretty strenous, I did my class one in Dublin and passed, I found the eye test to be nothing as hard as what is being described here, i did pass and i supposedly have perfect vision buttruth be told my left eye could see a lot lot less than my right. Im just saying this because maybe it might be worth a trip to dublin to do your class one?

Ian

[zapoi67]

How was your appointment on Friday ? Hope it opened you the doors of professional flying again ! ;)
Let us know.

[falcon32]

and explain what happened.See if you can get a different opinion...I would contest their diagnosis.......

[olliew]

Talking of advice.... wld suggest you go to the top. I lost my class 1 after some years due to a developing problem with one of my eyes which at the time seemed like the end of the world. To save the sight in that eye I decided to go to the top honcho who is a Proffesor Domato besed at the Royal Liverpool Hospital. Not only did he save the eye but I could now get my class 1 back though I have decided to follow a different path. It might be worth your while approaching him by way of an initial consultation to discuss your options. If he decides to fight your corner the CAA will respect his opinion as a recognised leader in his field. Which ever course you follow I wish you all the best.

[matt_hooks]

peppl, I know exactly how you feel.

I had the exact same experience, with the same problem.

I now have my class 1 CAA medical and lots of lovely expensive licences. Depending on the severity of the problem, it can be improved/resolved in a number of ways.

If you are only just outside the limit then it's possible that exercises prescribed by your optometrist might bring you within limits. This was not an option for me as I was something like 12 times outside the limits, even though as you say I'd never had any problems with double vision or anything like that.

I got a referral from my doctor to an opthalmic surgeon. I had to pay for the first appointment with him as a private patient, but he said that the problem was fixable with surgery, and that because of possible future problems if it was left untreated he could carry out the surgery on the NHS.

Where are you based peppl? If you want pm me and I can give you contact details for the surgeon who fixed my eye. He was extremely helpful and interested in the aero-medical stuff, he might be able to help out, or might know someone local to you that can carry out the procedure if necessary.

I know having surgery seems like a bit of an extreme option, but it's day surgery, the risks for a healthy young person are minimal and if it allows you to follow your dream then I think it's worth it!

[v6g]

I did my initial class 3 (PPL) in the UK, the eye exam seem to last for ages with loads of various tests. I then did my initial class 3 and later an initial class 1 in Canada the eye exam seemed quite simple, involving just:
- Reading the numbers off the chart
- Peripheral vision test, where the docs moves his pen around your head and you have to say when you can see it
- Colour blindness, reading the numbers from the book - I got one of them wrong and he prompted me for it again "Are you sure that's a seven?"
- Shine that light thingy in my eyes to have a look.

You could do a class 1 in Canada and then convert to a class 1 in JAA-land. The conversion is much simpler or so I've been told.

Whilst I'm not generally a fan of going to great lengths to skirt the rules, aviation seems to be full of narrow-minded regulations.

[peppl]

Firstly, I know I keep saying this but the support from everyone has been great, thanks to you all.
Right, last Friday. Well she said that there was definitely something there. She said that she would contact a specialist to see what they thought. I must say that she conducted a very thorough exam. Again, the problem was only when I keep my head facing forward and look up right and I mean as up and as right as possible.
I had a call from her today and she said that there was nothing the specialist could do and suggested the best course would be to appeal and see the CAA specialist. I did ask if there was any supporting documentation she or the specialist could give me, there was but her thoughts were that the CAA would trust the judgement of their own specialists. So I am going to send off my appeal this week.
In the meantime I have been looking at alternatives. As I said before I ruled out FAA due to me needing a green card. I may be persuded otherwise, someone PM'd me who had taken that route, I am waiting to hear back. The same goes for the Australian route.
I have called AME's in the UK who specialise in South African, Australian and Canadian medicals. The jury is still out about Canada, I took the optician the Canadian Visual requirements and she said they were tighter (on some parts) than the CAA. v6g, I have read your post so I will follow this up again. I am waiting to hear back on the SA requirements and the best part was that the Australian AME said I should have no problem at all:)

I have emailed and called a few flight schools to see what they say but have yet to hear from them, in the meantime, this does bring new questions. What about visa's? What license would I have, ICAO I guess? Where could I work etc.

My plan (before the class 1 fiasco) was to go modular and keep working to bring in the cash. In my ideal world, should I fail my appeal, I was wondering if I could do the same. It was mentioned to me that I may be able to do everything here apart from the medical and the CPL which I would do in my chosen country. So there you go.

Any thoughts on the above especially the overseas options are most welcome. I'll let you know how the appeal goes.

Cheers.

[v6g]

I have emailed and called a few flight schools to see what they say but have yet to hear from them, in the meantime, this does bring new questions. What about visa's? What license would I have, ICAO I guess? Where could I work etc.

- if you were to, for example, go the Canadian route then you'd have 2 options:
1) Come to Canada for a minimum of 1 day to get your Canadian Class 1 medical certificate (no visa required - just make it a few days holiday), then return to Europe to convert your Canadian class 1 medical certificate to a JAA class 1 (what I was suggesting was that it is allegedly easier to convert a non-JAA class 1 to a JAA class 1 than to obtain an initial JAA class 1). Then proceed with your training in Europe for a JAA license and proceed with your career in JAA land as originally planned.
2) Come to Canada to get your Class 1 medical, then train in Canada but you'd then have to convert it back to a JAA license if you wanted to work in Europe (assume minimum of 6-8 months extra study time and at least GBP12K extra training costs). You would also be taking quite a gamble on this Canadian class 1 to JAA class 1 idea - as you'd only find out if this plan works once you've spent all your money on a canadian license - it's not a certainty.

Option 2 will probably give you financial savings and is the route that a number of folks take but option 1 is what I meant in my previous post as it focuses on the specifics of your eyesight issue.

[peppl]

Would I be able to get a Canadian medical then come back to the uk and do all the flight training, study the Canadian ground subjects and go to Canada to sit the CPL test?

[atminimums]

peppl - Firstly, let me say that I applaud your courage in coninuing to try and find an answer and other possible routes. :D

A mate of mine got knocked back on his class one a few years ago, and obviously he was gutted. We talked about it, and he made the decision that he would stay in aviation, and he has. He still flies privately with his class 2 and is happy as larry.

Im not saying that it didnt hurt him to give up his dream - it did - but it also gave him another great opportunity to go ahead with something else within the aviation field.

Just thought Id give you a view on what someone else in your position decided to do. :)