Cessna Caravan & SE commercial ops

[topcat450]

I know there's various threads on the ups & downs of if/when SE commercial ops might become a reality, however I've been looking into these aircraft recently and I've noticed odd European companies who 'appear' to be using them for commercial ops.

For example there's a UK company who list a C208 in their inventory as a freighter which is available. There was a company in Lanzarote offering cargo services using a single (Lanzarote = Spain = JAA/EASA ?? surely?)

Am I missing something? Is there a distinction made between freight commercial ops and people?

[robash]

slight tangent and forgive me if this is a naive question but not being familiar with the Cirrus SR22 - how can this can perform public charter with single engine?

[topcat450]

My understanding is that it can't, unless by day and VFR. But I'm already thinking I might be missing some aspect of the rules so don't take my word for it.

[plinkton]

topcat450, your understanding is correct, with some limits as to how far from land the AC can go. I asked a question about this operation a while ago but never heard anything more.

robash, Are you thinking of the onecharter operation with the SR22?

[robash]

yep - that was what had brought it to my attention, I assumed as they were offering it openly that they were able to do it I just wasnt sure what the restrictions were.

[Jetscream 32]

there is no problem in offering a c208b on charter - as in the the UK - EU you can get an AOC for SE day - vfr with no problems the same as you can for an SR 22 if you want to - your AOC manuals will clearly state the weather minima both dep/en route and arrival and div - and your crews will come under the same FTL requirements as BA or anybody else.

All of the airfields you want to visit / operate from will be your biggest hurdle as most would be cat D and the requirement for a brief for all of them will be time consuming and a pain the ass.... however nothing stopping you at all, as too be honest the amount of VFR days in the UK would more than make it viable - IMHO..... :8

[Phil Brockwell]

Trust me, it's not viable. Learnt that one the hard way!

Phil

[Life's a Beech]

Remember that is day, VMC, within gliding distance of land. A significant additional restriction operating in the UK.

[robash]

ok, thanks thats interesting. Whats peoples take on One Charter starting up offering the SR22 out of Fairoaks? - complete with parachute.

Sorry hijacking the thread somewhat.

[plinkton]

At the risk of going over old ground...

...I would say it could be a bit tricky as far as maintaining VFR is concerned, my understanding is that the Cirrus would be used when the weather was predicted to be VFR for that flight, not sure how this works in practice, for example a flight up to Aberdeen with predicted VFR weather can be a goer until the Haar creeps in with no notice...

As far as the aircraft is concerned, it's pretty well equipped and with that CAPS parachute type system I would feel fairly safe (safer than in an Aztec for example), however Customers are not pilots normally and two engines may well look safer than one.

[Jetscream 32]

ooohh yeah i remember now phil - phew that was a few years ago - im sure you had one of those when i came to look at the chieftans to buy the 10 seater one in black cloth and the other 2 ......... :}

[k12479]

"SE-IFR cargo-only operations are permitted by exemption in Denmark, Finland, France, Greenland, Norway, Spain and Sweden" - from: http://www.aviationweek.com/shownews/02nbaa/airfrm05.htm

[topcat450]

I wonder what'll happen when EASA take over? All countries singing from the same hymn sheet - or odd countries still making exceptions to the rules to suit themselves - such as S/E IFR cargo? :ugh:

[SpeedbirdXK8]

If you haven't already speak with the people who operate 208s such as Bob Crowe at Cranfield, UK Parachute at Old Buckingham, Air Med at Oxford, UK Glass Eels et al. If you need numbers I can supply. They are likely to say the same, you can only operate day VFR.

[plinkton]

MR Glass Eels is very knowledeable and a great guy to speak to about his type of op, which I think is private cat., so can go day/night VRF/IFR.

[SpeedbirdXK8]

Glass Eels have a A to A AOC and also undertake specialist cargo flights of the human kind!

[Tinstaafl]

What's so difficult about VFR commercial ops? I flew them for 2 1/2 years in the Shetlands winter & summer to islands with no navaids or beacons, as did others before & after me, as well as years of it in Oz. Of course some flights have to be delayed, or even cancelled, but it's still do-able as long as an allowance for the cost of this is included in the rates as a normal part of the business.

As for safety, it must be gospel from the management that IMC is a no-no. Or go work somewhere else.