Flying in China

[knox]

Hi all.
I'm heading over to China for a holiday in a few months time and would like to do some flying whilst there, however i'm finding it very difficult to find any flight schools/clubs - and yes i have googled extensively.
I'll mainly be in the Shanghai region with trips to south China also planned.

Can someone please give me any info or even better some contacts in China for this kind of activity.

Cheers

Knox.

[Howard Hughes]

Up until abour two years ago I believe there were only 3 GA aircraft on the Chinese register!

Quite a few more now, but I suspect most are being used to train cadets, good luck but I don't like your chances, try the Asian forum!:ok:

[flyneehao]

You simply can't.

Only commercial airplane are allowed in Chinese skies.

[mingalababya]

Up until abour two years ago I believe there were only 3 GA aircraft on the Chinese register!

Quite a few more now, but I suspect most are being used to train cadets, good luck but I don't like your chances, try the Asian forum!:ok:

There are quite a few GA aircraft on the Chinese register these days, many brand new DA 40's and 42's with G1000 glass cockpit. One I flew last month only had 20 hours on the clock! But as HH said, most if not all GA aircraft in China are used for cadet pilot training and private hire is unheard of here. This is probably because GA is still a very new concept in China and ATC here currently have no clue on how to separate GA traffic from commercial RPT. They require 20 minute separation from inbound commercial RPT even when we're doing touch and go's in the circuit area, which means we have to land, wait 20 minutes for the inbound 737, and then continue again with circuits once the 737 has landed. Ridiculous!

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k277/mingalababya/P1000460ss.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k277/mingalababya/P1000465ss.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k277/mingalababya/P1000458ss.jpg

[FO Cokebottle]

All very tightly controlled - its a communist state after all.

Don't let your liberal, free speach, what about my rights attitude get in the way of reality.

Can't have you flying about uncontrolled - you might drop pro-democracy/pro-Tibet independance leaflets.

You laugh........thats what happened when a certain flying school, in Hua Hin - Thailand private hired out its Partnavia.

Straight to Saigon....leaflet dropping. Upshot - can not hire any aircraft, privately from said school. without "extra pax" ie: said school employee/pilot on board.

Cheers

[flying-spike]

You can fly in China no problem........you just won't do it for very long that's all! Remember, your family get the bill for the bullet and if you get shot down that could be a big bill.

[knox]

Thanks for the replies.

I don't mind flying with an instructor on board, not looking at hiring so i can solo.
I did hear of a place away from the main centres that you can do it but cant remember where i sourced the info from now as it was a couple of years ago.

Knox.


Ps. mingalababya, nice pics.... whats the biplane in the background?

[sms777]

Looks like a Antonov AN-2 to me.

[tinpis]

:rolleyes:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/326880020_ca40255b35.jpg?v=0

[fl610]

Haven't seen it that clear in a while Tin. :ooh:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Man you must be really desperate to go flying!

Why bother?

Dr :8

[flog]

I was in China last April (2007) talking to some government types about this and they estimate they won't be freeing up the airspace for at least the next 3-5 years.

The main issue is that the entire country is military controlled airspace and all ATC (Civilian RPT included) is run by the military. They don't won't to give it up.

[Eight Ball]

Heard that some Yanks flying for an airline in China had their passports taken (surrendered temporarily ) to the company while they were under contract.

Anyone heard about this ?

So, they resulted to having 2 passports issued ( if that was at all possible) just to make sure they can get out.

[mingalababya]

Ps. mingalababya, nice pics.... whats the biplane in the background?

That's the Chinese version of the AN-2 known as the Yunshu-5 (http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/airlift/y5.asp), built under supervision from the Russians. Believe it or not, the thing still flies.

[sms777]

Looking at the photo on Tinpis post brings me back memories.
In 2002 i spent 10 days in GuangZhou which is the largest city in the Canton province in south China about 300km inland from HK. The entire time i have not seen the sun, visibility would have been about 200 meters every day. The other thing i have not seen: BIRDS. You know the living kind with feathers... May be because the military airspace does not allow them to fly or they cannot afford their IFR renewals:confused:

(There was no shortage on the menu at restaurants though)

Needless to say i could not wait to get out of the place!

[lk978]

China is adopting an open (well a little bit more open) skies policy in 2010. This will free up airspace for biz jets and airlines however I think it will be a while before you can hire a 182 for a local jolly...

The biggest problem is that the CAAC don know wat they are supposed to be governing... they have had the job of looking after the airlines but have never really thought about the general aviation industry. Airspace is controlled by the government but no the CAAC.

At the moment their main strategy is to mke the flying schools establish in the western provences where it doesnt matter.

The aviation industry in China up until now has been very limited with almost no existence of a General Aviation industry and only a small number of state owned airlines operating domestically. The change from 2006 to 2008 has been substantial, with government agencies now talking in terms of the ways of gaining approvals rather than describing it as impossible.


Biz Jet manufacturers are all taking China very seriously, particularly as China is fast becoming a business dynamo in the world economy. The new entrepreneurs are finding that business jet transport is the only way to maximize their time over this vast area, and it's all starting to drive business jet sales and charters in Asia.

The main factors holding back the full potential of business jet travel in the region - and an explosion of aircraft sales - are restrictive government agencies whose rules are more aligned with commercial airline operations. Excessive import duty and VAT on the importation of new aircraft is still a major problem. However the CAAC has introduced new regulations to encourage private investment in key aviation infrastructure, including domestic airlines, airports, and cargo facilities, as well as in services such as fuel supply and storage, maintenance and repair, operations, catering, and distribution systems. The rules also allow for the use of private capital in the construction of airports in western China and grant foreign carriers unlimited access to the area's six provinces and regions Chongqing, Sichuan, Yunnan and Guizhou provinces, Guangxi, and Tibet.

China is seen to be taking the right steps, with the growth of business aviation activity viewed as 'substantial' over the last 10 years by many industry figures. The equivalent of an AOC has been approved, and more military airspace is becoming available to business jet users, from 2010 China will adopt and open skies policy opening much of its airspace that is controlled by the military to civilian use.. On the negative side though, importers of foreign aircraft still have to pay a hefty 21% Import/VAT levy. China is very active, and although it's going to take a few more years yet, we are seeing companies and individuals interested in buying whole and fractions of aircraft. The most popular business aviation access route in China at the moment is charter, but this is changing with companies buying their own aircraft and then having them managed by one of the specialist charter companies, presently there are only a handful of these companies and many are hard to find.

[rutan around]

Save yourself the cost of China trip. If it's over regulation you want to experience just go to North Qld. There's a tosser from DOTARS (I think) going to each of the Communties scaring the bejesus out of the local councils with lurid tales of Reds under their beds.....er I think it was terrorists or druggies or maybe all of the above. He wants all these councils to lock up their airports and require any plane to give one hours notice of it's arrival. The otherwise unoccupied CEO will then toddle down to the airport unlock the gate, ask you your business and if this recently trained security expert is satisfied with your bona fides he may let you in. This is very necessary, I was solemnly informed, because there are planes flying around wherever they like, and they could be going anywhere! Goodness Gracious!! Planes doing what cars and boats do every day of the week! We can't have that!
If it's just the pollution you want to experience, go anywhere up north in the dry season. All the smoke pollution you want, absolutely free!
Bon Voyage

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day 'Knox',

As others have said, really t'aint worth it....really.
You'll see MORE from the ground, looking UP!

Seeing as you are staying in the Shanghai area, do yourself a big favour and take the 'Mag-Lev' train to the new airport at Pudan(?)

This machine does something like 435kms / hr - smooth as silk - does the 30km in 8 mins. I reckon 3 min to accel - 2 min 'cruise' - 3 min to coast to a stop. And, cheap as chips, by our $!

Above all, ENJOY your trip - it is indeed, a great place to visit!!

Cheers
Griffo:ok::ok:

[Taildragger67]

Griffo,

The new airport is 'Pudong' (PVG/ZSPG).

The Maglev is a fun ride, but it's only 8 mins and then you still have to get into town by the subway.

Imagine building an airport at Richmond and having the Maglev take you in as far as Strathfield.

Hence it's probably a taste of the future, but to be honest, a bit of a hassle given the need to change transport modes at the station in the 'burbs; so I reckon it's more of a novelty than useful RPT at the moment. But, do it so you can say you've done it and it is cheap is A$ terms.

But Knox I agree with Griffo that you should enjoy your trip, it is an amazing place. Especially some of the signs translated into English (http://www.engrish.com/category_index.php?category=CHINGLISH)...

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

T'was May 2004 when I went there last, and the 'Mag-Lev' was probably the 'most interesting' ride of the trip!

And yes, it is only from the 'outer burbs' to Pudong - BUT - its bloody quick!!
And nice. And cheap. And, OH so ssmmooooth....
And, I just LUV the way the cute attendants STAND by the interconnecting doorways during the trip - just to reassure us 'ferangs'.

The visual pollution was not too bad in May - even in Beijing we were told it was mostly 'yellow sand' dust from Mongolia which is not that far away.

And it smelled like dust as well - not necessarily motor / industrial pollution.

But, the message is - E N J O Y!!!:ok::ok:

[knox]

Thanks guys.
I've been to China before and really enjoyed my time there. So i'm looking forward to this trip too.

Knox.

[Capt Wally]

ok one has to ask WHY would you want to fly in China? But I guess each to their own.
Slight thread drift but some years ago now I was tasked to fly into Shanghai & it wasn't too easy to do back then. Finding the place was like looking thru a glass bong on some hazy sat night (not that I've ever done that can only imagine) & once on the ground we where kept 'company' on the tarmac by a nice couple of young lads on pushbikes funny enough, security I guess. Oh yeah & there was one other slight detail that I nearly forgot, these lads where sporting automatic weapons around their shoulders, must have been a bad bird plague, yeah that was it!:bored:

I say again. WHY would you want to fly in China privately anyway?

CW

[knox]

Well the reason why I want to fly in China is probably the same reason why i'd like to fly in Australia, USA, Canada, Fiji, Russia, Africa..... well you get the idea.

I simply enjoy flying.

I guess the question i'd put to myself is not so much "why" would i want to fly in china but "why not". Its pretty much a been there done that type of thing.

Knox.