Thomas Cook acquisitions.. or not. (Merged)

[topjetboy]

Anyone else heard the TCX buying XLA rumour? Heard it a few days ago.

[glider12000]

I`m XLA crew and not heard anything....

[J.O.]

Not a slag, just an honest question. If they were to do so, what would they gain in the purchase of XLA? Would there be any benefit other than taking a relatively small competitor out of the mix?

[A and C]

A chance to grab three new A330's, to replace the 767's and a fleet of 738 &9's to replace the 757's. looking for a more fuel efficent fleet?

I don't think it will happen but if it did that would be the answer.

[jetstream7]

From the Eimskip website...

Eimskip´s loan guarantee provided to the buyers of XL Leisure Group is still valid

Hf. Eimskipafelag Islands today announces that the loan guarantee it provided to the purchasers of XL Leisure Group in the UK in the end of 2006 is still valid. The Company had previously announced that the guarantee would expire on 5 May 2008. Due to difficult market conditions the refinancing has not been completed but Eimskip is in good cooperation with the management of XL Leisure Group and its financial partners. The Company expects the guarantee to be waived in the coming weeks.

For further information

Halldor Kristmannsson

Executive VP of Corporate Communications

http://www.eimskip.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-20/27_read-1803/

So presumably something in the pipeline,and not necessarily a purchase by another company?

[stue]

Anyone else heard the TCX buying XLA rumour?

Nope, but i only fly for them. We would be the last to know! :ok:

[australiancalou]

Why not. That could be wise. Something has to happen anyway...:suspect:

[SWBKCB]

Given the effort required in bringing MYT and TCX together organisationally, are they in the position to do this?

[Sean Dillon]

Don't see why not, get it right second time:rolleyes:

[ROSSKi MYT]

738 &9's to replace the 757's

I disagree, they would more likely replace the A320's, roughly same capacity.

[goldeneye]

The decision to buy the XLA woulld be made by The Thomas Cook Group and not TCX. TC plc are on a spending spree but i doubt very much that the XL Group would be on there radar, although stranger things have happened.
XL have a french airline which may be of interest for capacity for the French tour ops of TC. Travel City Direct and Kosmar holidays also may be of use plus the Australian business would give TC a foot back into Australia. We will wait an see.

[heli_port]

Thomas Cook and Air Berlin have scrapped a deal in which Thomas Cook would have taken a 30 per cent stake in Air Berlin and sold its own loss-making airline, Condor, to the budget airline.
The tour operator said today that it and Air Berlin had withdrawn an application for merger approval from the German Bundeskartellamt, the equivalent of the Office of Fair Trading. At the time the deal was announced in September, Thomas Cook said it would receive shares in Air Berlin worth between €380 (£303) and €475 (£379) million plus €120 million in cash.


Thomas Cook scraps plans to buy Air Berlin - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4314162.ece)

[celso75]

never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh! :ugh:

[lederhosen]

Well it certainly puts a new spin on things! But it is a poorly thought through article, how does 30% (as the journalist says himself) give you ownership?

Everyone here in Germany knows Air Berlin was buying Condor. The fact that Arcandor, the parent of Thomas Cook was taking shares in Air Berlin in part payment was also well known.

The fact is that Air Berlin's shares have fallen to such an extent that a deal along the original lines was no longer possible. First thing this morning AB shares jumped over 10% on the news. Although the underlying logic for such a gain is unclear.

[angels]

Herr Lederhosen - you certainly have a financial brain my friend.

Air Berlin shares presently at 3.64 euros, down 6 cents after earlier hitting 4.14.

[MD11F]

Condor is a loss making Airline????
Condor is definitly a profitable Airline!:ok:

[lederhosen]

Not sure what you are on about Angels, are you being complimentary about my superlative knowledge or sarcastic. Stupid question this being Pprune it can only be the latter. The radio reported that Air Berlin's shares were up 10% first thing this morning. I am not providing a ticker service, just reporting what Bayern 5 said (bit like radio 4 in lederhosen). The fact that they are back down again is hardly a surprise. If BR5 got it wrong then I guess that further reinforces the message take with a pinch of salt what journos report!

[angels]

Complimentary Herr Lederhosen!! It's a shame you thought otherwise.

You correctly surmised that there was something odd about the initial jump. I assume somebody screwed up initially when they saw the news, bought quite heavily in a thin market and then got dumped on.

[lederhosen]

I stand corrected, you are a gentleman and a scholar! Quo Vadis Air Berlin share price then? as you obviously know what you are talking about.

[3REDS]

Rumour has it that Thomas Cook are after XL Airways. Anyone have any more info on this?

[goldeneye]

The merger of Thomas Cook owned Condor and Air Berlin has been called off. The deal which was announced in September has been in the hands of the German Federal Cartel Office for the last few months, however Thomas Cook plc and Air Berlin cited “the significantly changed economic framework conditions” since September – including a doubling of the price of jet fuel – as the main reason for pulling the proposed deal.

Thomas Cook is said to be looking at alternative's for the airline and still considers it a major part of its business.

[rubik101]

How an equity swap of 30% in return for an airline can be seen as transferring ownership is beyond me but evidently not beyond journos from the good old Thunderer! Bless Rupert and his hacks.
Deals, mergers and take-overs amongst and between airlines, travel companies and their owners will surely be put on hold for the foreseeable future in these troubled times. (sic)
Share prices will slide, whatever the outcome of these deals, I fear.

[The Real Slim Shady]

The fact is that Air Berlin's shares have fallen to such an extent that a deal along the original lines was no longer possible. First thing this morning AB shares jumped over 10% on the news. Although the underlying logic for such a gain is unclear.

Dead cat bounce?

[ng78]

Rumour has it that Thomas Cook are after XL Airways. Anyone have any more info on this?


I keep hearing this as well, which would be very interesting on many levels. It might kick-start consolidation with Canadian charter airlines.

[spaceman18]

TCX are not interested, at all, in Excel. This, coming from the very top in TCX.

[3REDS]

Spaceman, I hope you are right. Talking to a lot of guys from MYT and they all say that is a total disaster at the moment.

[dada]

and the share price at an all year low.
pretty soon i can see thomson cook being the next resultant consolidation

[spaceman18]

At an all year low.....along with Tui, and the FTSE as a whole. Hardly representative of TCX.

[The Flying Cokeman]

A bit info about Air Berlin's shareprice:


In the last 12 months hightest price was 15.70 Euros and lowest was 3.68 Euros.

As of 18 July the price was 3.78 Euros.

Absolute performance over 12 months: -75.9% share price drop.

Absolute performance over last month: -48.5% share price drop.

Absolute performance last week: +2.7% share price increase.

Dredsner bank in Germany have this week valuated Air Berlin shares to be worth 0 euros !

Worst share drop price by a European carrier is Vuelling with 80.1 % drop over the last 12 months :uhoh:

But that's probably because it hasn't been made totally public yet that Air Berlin have sold all their fuel hedging to others as they need the cash.... :eek:

Well so the rumours say at least, beginning of the end or the end of the beginning :confused: Time will tell.

[Alwaysairbus]

We keep hearing the XL rumour too. It would be a good way of getting the Caribbean routes back which JMC/TCX gave up during the CKT merger.

With the complete shambles primarily caused by ex MYT managers and directors unable to comprehend how to run a profitable and efficient airline with the right amount of crews and without wasting money everywhere, if any XL merger is forthcoming then hopefully lessons will have been learnt and the same mistakes not made all over again.

The futures bright, the futures orange... i mean blue...

[Orion Man]

I keep hearing TCX is eyeing up Excel too. It would make strategic sense and remove capacity from the market as the downturn kicks in. The CP at TCX has denied it but that means nothing and he is leaving shortly in any case.

TCX is likely to go down the B737 route as opposed to the A321 due to range issues as a fleet replacement for the ageing 757s and coupled with the fact that they already operate A330s, a deal to buy Excel would appeal.

I too am hearing that the TCX-MYT merger has been very problematic so far and maybe buying Excel now might be biting off more than it can chew but never say never.

Regards

Orion Man

[BYALPHAINDIA]

I always said XL should have bought & saved 'Silverjet':D

They could have ran their 762 & 763's alongside SJ'S 3 X 762'S

And XL would have had all the Biz operation too.:D

And a foot in LTN's door.

And saved all the jobs.

[EGNMCharlie]

TCX is likely to go down the B737 route as opposed to the A321 due to range issues as a fleet replacement for the ageing 757s and coupled with the fact that they already operate A330s, a deal to buy Excel would appeal.

Surely if they were to get a replacement for the 757's it would be the A321! They already have a large A320/321 fleet so why bother add the 737 which would require a massive change of crews, maintenance etc. They already operate A330, B767, B757-300, B757-200, A321 & A320! Talk about chaos adding the 737 aswell! My money is on a long term fleet plan of A330, A321, A320.

Range Issues? Well they would have more range issues with the 737! The only option would be the 737-900ER as they have a perfectly good A320 fleet so 737-700/-800/-900(non ER) would be a step in the wrong direction:ugh:. As for implementing the -900ER well thet would be plane stupid (hehe) when the A321 can do everything the -900ER can yet without the massive implementation costs.

Do TCX really need any more A330's? Surely 6/7 depending upon season is enough and the 767's could be reconfigured for any near long haul expantion.

But surely Thomas Cook wouldn't be interested in XL, if they needed more aircraft (which I believe they dont at the moment) then why go through the bother of another merger/acquisition when it is much easier to buy them! Also, the Thomas Cook group has made it clear that they are not out to be bigger than TUI, but to be number 1 in the markets they serve in terms of quality.

[celso75]

"Spaceman, I hope you are right. Talking to a lot of guys from MYT and they all say that is a total disaster at the moment."

Who is this MYT that people keep talking about about?:rolleyes:

[3REDS]

Just heard that the XL /Tommy Cook deal is already done from a very good source.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

If this is true, Then I don't believe the phrase 'we don't want to be the No 1 player like Thomson':rolleyes:

I think it would be sad to see the end of XL.:ugh::=

And all the jobs go with it.:=

Reported in a paper today that Jet 2 might not see year 2010???

It's going to be a 'VERY' hard winter 2008 for the carriers that's for sure.:sad::sad:

[goldeneye]

Where are these rumours coming from, there is nothing about any talk of this anywhere in the travel trade press, or anywhere online other than here. After the fiasco of merging the Thomas Cook and MyTravel groups, i dont see TC plc wanting to go through another merger this quickly, also there going to get another German airline in the form of XL Germany when they are trying to dispose of Condor.

I can understand some of the logic in taking over the XL leisure group, but i cant see it happening anytime soon.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

(M&M) Monopolies & Mergers Committee would not allow TCX merge again in such a short length of time, They are here to make sure that Jobs are secure, And mergers kept to a minimum.

And the CAA could also express concern at another merger in a short space of time.

TCX could land themselves in 'deep water' if they break the rules.

[Crewing's Slave]

Who said anything about a merger.

My source tells me TCX (v cash rich) will be 'buying' XL leisure group. Good way of getting some new equipment to replace the ageing 757 which are up for lease renewal soon. Plus all those lucrative new routes which Cally ditched......

[phiman]

If TCX are buying or merging with XL then lets hope they wait until we get the mess of the MYT merge over with, before running them as 1 airline. Surely the mess created in november by the managment is going to cause a few changes at board level just for starters, come this nov when the critical summer session is over.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

TCX won't be selling any Holidays - If they don't get their website looked at, It's pathetic, Being trying to book a Holiday for a few weeks now.:=

I'm not ringing a 'premium' no to do the booking, When you should be able to book online??:=

Asked around & other people have had the same problem.

The site lets you look at a Holiday, Then it comes up with a 'silly' error code, Then you have to start all over again.

Can someone at TCX please explain this problem.

No other sites have this kind of booking problem.:hmm:

The only reason I want to book on their site is because it is cheaper than most.

If it is to get you to call them, Then People will take their money elsewhere.:hmm:

[EGNMCharlie]

Try MyTravel as it is still fully functional and offers holidays to exactly the same destinations/flights/companies as ThomasCook just under a different trading name.

We were trying to book with Thomas Cook to Tenerife a few weeks ago on their own website and it was useless so we tried MyTravel.com and there were the same holidays as Thomas Cook just under a different website. Worked out £12 cheaper too than on the Thomas Cook website! :ok:

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Okay Cheers, That's 2 of us then.

My Gran was born in 'Kirk Hammerton':ok:

[EGNMCharlie]

My Gran was born in 'Kirk Hammerton':ok:

Nice one, mine too! Its the place to be these days so she was very lucky ....! ;)

Any idea whereabouts? I may be living in the very same place!

[goldeneye]

TCX is an airline and do not sell holidays, Booking are made thomascook. Thomas Cook are about to launch a new website in next few weeks which will take over from the current TC website, and replace Airtours, Mytravel Manos and Panorama. See here (http://www.marketingweek.co.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=61899&d=254&h=260&f=3) for full details on changes.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Good they need one.:ugh:

A mate of mine has just left the TCX - He says it was a 'Disaster Zone'

[celso75]

I don't think it's any worse than anywhere else, particularly in the curren climate

[fantom]

Beeb reporting these three "in early talks to merge SOME of their businesses".

[Torque2]

Perhaps this is what is referred to?:

August 28, 2008
Thomas Cook's charter airline Condor has joined "early talks" with TUI Travel's TUIfly Germany and Lufthansa's Germanwings unit over a possible three-way merger, the companies said on Thursday.

They said no commercial terms had been agreed and there was no certainty of a deal.

TUI Travel has been in talks with Lufthansa since the start of the year over a merger between its charter airline TUIfly and Germanwings.

Thomas Cook joined the talks after German carrier Air Berlin scrapped plans to buy Condor, sources familiar with the situation said in July. Thomas Cook said at that time it was "pursuing a range of other available options" for Condor.

Blue Oar Securities analyst Derren Nathan said on Thursday the airlines' announcement will "come as no surprise to the market".

"Consolidation in the German leisure carry market is inevitable and TUI Travel has said that until the situation is resolved this will be a hurdle to improving operational performance," he said.

However, Nathan added that a three way tie-up is likely to be scrutinized closely by the German authorities and any deal is likely to be a lengthy process.

(Reuters) :ok:

[transwede]

Is this just the German division or will the merger incorporate UK/Scandinavia too?

[airhumberside]

Certainly not the UK division. Dont think the Scandinavia division is involved either

[Seljuk22]

It is about Germanwings (4U), Tuifly (X3), Condor (DE) and Eurowings (EW) to create a new airline to compete for Air Berlin.