Melaka Flying Academy

[BorneoPilot]

Hello,
I`m doing my flight training in Canada currently and have contacted DCA in Malaysia
about converting to Malaysian CPL/ATPL
and they referred me to Melaka Flying Academy. Anyone got any info or views about the school? is it the only flying school in Malaysia? Have not been back home for a long time.
Thanx again!

[airwave]

They have a website if you search on one of the Malaysian browsers you should find it pretty quickly. I think they have a kiwi instructor there.

[QNH1013]

Don't know about the Website yet, but I have their number in my head which is;
(606) 3174026

[Old Dog]

It is "Malaysia Flying Academy", situated at Malacca Airport, across the runway from the passenger terminal building. It is NOT "Melaka Flying Academy". It is the only full-fledge flying school in Malaysia now, the other one at Langkawi Airport has ceased operations a few years ago.

The pricipal of the school is an expat from India, ex-IAF pilot (Captain Kharshav). Flight instructors includes some Malaysians ex-RMAF pilots, some are very good. Air-conditioned class-rooms, and a hostel within the school campus.

(The other flying schools in Malaysia are run by the RMAF. No civilian cadets.)

[This message has been edited by Old Dog (edited 20 November 2000).]

[airmanshoop]

Used to work there, its a **** hole. The school has been run into the ground over the last couple of years, and staff moral is at a real low. ONLY go there if its a real must...

[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 23 November 2000).]

[BorneoPilot]

looks like there are nothing but poor reviews from you guys. it looks like there are not much choices for non-military pilots in Malaysia in terms of flight training. what is happening here?

commends...anyone?

[anito4a]

BorneoPilot

I was at MFA about 7 years ago and I don't think too highly of it. Don't know, but things may have changed since then...

There doesn't seem to be any set policy (well back then, anyway) in terms of what is required to convert foreign CPL to Malaysian CPL. But it seems that the Malaysian DCA stipulates which further exam papers you need to sit, and MFA stipulates flying hours and skills.

On the other hand, there were people with UK CPL/IR who converted on a 1-for-1 ...no extra flying nor further exam papers required.

Here is another alternative to MFA, although this the first I'v heard of the "Malaysia Airlines Academy".
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com.my/maa/academy/main.html

Good luck in pursuits!

[FlyingCrew]

guys,
I was from MFA before in 1994. Never know so many of you out there are ppruners. Care to drop me a line for old time sake?
happy landings!

[BorneoPilot]

hello anito4a + fellow pilots

how is the Malaysia Airlines Academy
in Flight training? anyone train there before? I`ve looked through their webpage
and they offer Twin Otter training.
anyone know the price?

another question. Job opprtunities in Malaysia? any float operators there?
what planes do they fly? twin otters?
Cessna Caravans? Dash-7/8? who are the companies?

thanks again!

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Borneo Pilot, perhaps the following may be useful.

1) Ensure that the flying school you are attending is Malaysian DCA recognised.
2) If not, it is very very possible that you will have to sit the UK 6 CPL and or the UK ATPL written examinations before DCA will issue you a CPL, BTW, ATPL subjects will be required for co-pilot positions in aircraft MTOW greater than 12500 Ibs.
3) unless you have 700hrs or more in aircraft above 40,000 Ibs check that you have the required educational requirements required by DCA for issuance of their licence ( Believe it or not some candidates have had this problem)
4) Malaysian Air Law will have to be passed.
5) Performance A also will have to be passed.
6) Aircon Pressurisation, Basic Gas Turbines ect will be required if the type you wish to fly employs such systems.
7) Another quirky bunch of exams are the tecnical papers hudraulics, pnuematica, AC electrics, DC electrics ect ( Some have had to sit them some have not depends on your luck I guess )
8) A Certificate of Test ( C of T ) may be required to validate your instrument rating, this will be done in an aircraft over here, for employment purposes it is better that you do it in a twin engine aircraft.
ONCE LICENSING HAS BEEN SORTED PROCEED TO STEP 2. ( EMPLOYMENT )
9) Almost all the aircraft here are turbine, there seems to be little AVGAS so only a few Navajo's, Barrons etc.
10) MAS is your best bet you require Malaysian ATPL Command Instrument Rating and certain educational quailfications SPM xxxx subjects + Bahasa Malaysia etc check on this.
But if you are connected at a high level no problems you will get in with standard 1 primary school fail.
11) No floats yet over here but you should start an operation it will do well!!!!!
12) Berjaya Operates DASH 7's
13) MAS ( Rural Air Services operats DHC 6's)
14) Transmile Air operates B737-200F, QC's and B727-200F's + C 208's
15) Air Aisa operates B737-300's.
These are the major players but would advise MAS as everybody is leaving. If you get there and find everybody gone switch the lights off. All the best and hope you make it. Good Luck, Wooblah..........

[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 22 November 2000).]

[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 22 November 2000).]

[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 25 November 2000).]

[Goldwing2000]

Excellent run down Capt Wooblah but Berjaya Air operates Dash 7. Infact they have two and are slowly expanding.
Oh, by the way Borneopilot if you find the electricity bill for MAS just light your cigarette with it. Like everything at MAS it's all gone up in flames.

----------------
If it moves, funk it!

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

My apologies Borneo Pilot and thanks Goldwing
I stand corrected. Berjaya now have a total of 4 DASH 7's they just got 2 more.

Thanks Glodwing, seems they just got 2 more to add to the existing 2.

Regards, Wooblah..........

[Old Dog]

Malaysia Airlines Academy (MAA) is the training department of MAS. It is a subsidiary of MAS created by the present CEO of MAS, probably for the purpose of creative accounting.

MAA is not your typical flying schools. MAA does not train ab-initio pilots. MAA primarily train flight hostesses. MAS Pilots only show up at MAA once a year to do SEP refresher, or type conversion SEP. MAA also conduct training for other MAS personnel both local and overseas. Why, they even have their own hotel (or hostel) right next door to MAA.

Flight simulators are situated elsewhere, in a building located in old Subang Airport. Pilot training used to be part of MAS Flight Operations, but now it is 'managed' by MAA (if they knew how), using MAS flight instructors.

I heard rumours that MAS is trying to sell the flight simulators to Boeing or Flight Safety.

[BorneoPilot]

From what I can see, the Malaysian Flight training scene is not doing very good.
so...How does Malaysian pilots get licenses then?

[Goldwing2000]

Borneopilot, there's a rumour and I stress a rumour but nonetheless a reliable one that MAS are not going to send anymore of their cadet trainees to Melaka due to their poor standards.If that's the case than I can only assume that the school won't last very long. They are however planning to open another flight school in Ipoh(approx 170kms north of KL)with the help of BAe.(With their fingers in so many pie,even with a minority stake, it's no wonder they're losing money by the lorry load.) How true this is, is anybody's guess as MAS never knows what it's left hand does from it's right one.
Good luck in your endeavours as there are loads of exams to pass and getting your instrument rating in Malaysia isn't the easiest as planes aren't always available(if at all!) and the cost high.

----------------
If it moves, than funk it!

[OldAce]

Goklwing2000

It's not so much as Malacca Flying School standards as being low as being too high. Many MAS management siblings could not get through the flying courses there. These cadets were selected by MAS and some do not even meet the minimum requirement at all since they are connected to some of the cronies. I've talked to some of the instructors and they were quite disapointed with the quality of the recruits selected by MAS. Another is the cadets attitude 'you better make me pass' if not I'll tell my father.. How can you teach when the basic knowledge is not there. They might as well open up another SPM class teaching Physics, Math etc.

As far as left and right hand I agree with you. 'Intergration' had never been in MAS vocabulary and that includes 'moral'.

Well If they open their own school in Ipoh they can do what they want. There goes the future of safety in MAS.

[Goldwing2000]

Old Ace,
It's funny how just the other day at the sim building there were two guys waiting for the aptitude test or sim check. There was this 'Datuk' with them who was flashing his card about. Does he expect just because he has connections and knows diddly sh** about flying that he can get his own way? Well, in MAS or Malaysia anything is possible even if it means the quality of the candidate is poor. Nepotism and cronyism rules the day!!
By the way, when is that pratt TR going to get his a** out of MAS and hopefully followed closely by all his Taliban misfits. I read that he's negotiating with the Govt as no one else is interested. Let's hope we all have a good X'mas present when he finally goes sooner rather then later.

------------------
If it moves, funk it!

[OldAce]

Yes like I predicted before no one is interested to buy over MAS shares. At first Tabong Haji wanted to buy it ( I bet the idea was initiated by the Talibans to guarantee their positions in MAS) but to operate the airline without serving alcohol. Someone reckons to do so will incur more loss so the offer was left open.

It was in the papers the other day that Danaharta is buying it for 1.78 bil @ $8/- per share. TR bought it for $8/- in 1994 for only $800 mil (I still got the paper cutting). He makes a clean profit of almost $1/- bil. Where does Danaharta get the money, I hope not from the taxpayers fund again.

MAS present share value is $3.60 . They mentioned about the overall value of $5/- without aircraft sales (what ac almost all had been sold).

For your info I heard it was last year that the MAS Simulator Building had been sold to Boeing.

No asset a lot of 'utang' who want to buy. Only a Govt buy out at taxpayers expense can save,I hope, MAS. All those fella from Quantas,Swissair, etc came enjoyed themselves with the MAS management and then 'cabut'. All expenses borne by MAS again.


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 29 November 2000).]

[tigerwood]

In Asian Wall Street Journal, printed news about the selling of TR's stake back to the government @RM8 per share. Habislah duit rakyat lagi. I couldn't understand; if TR would have made profit, semua masuk poket dia and perhaps someone's too. But, when business not so good, he want to sell back at the same price he bought. Who doesn't want to do business like this!? Looks like Datuk B.A. is going to be the new M.D. The same person that have run the top management all this while. What have he done for the last 25 years? Same clown in different outfit(position).

[OldAce]

Most of those who had made the Airline to what it was had either retired, resigned or being engineered out. They want 'Yesman' only. In MAS, the intelligent the honest the one with moral values cannot survive.

[Old Dog]

I think Malaysia Flying Academy wasn't as bad as some of you said it is. They had some pretty good instructors, a decent set of course notes, and the planes flew allright... They even have a flight simulator (when I was there)!

At least, it was a decent flying school then. Not so sure about it status now.

In the days before KLIA, we had a much bigger training area. With the proximity of the new KLIA, MFA would have less airpace for the students to roam. But they have a new VOR now, which we didn't have back then.

Back in 1993, MAS was very keen to buy MFA. But the asking price was far too high, so in the end Syed Kechik could not offload his flopped aviation venture.

[This message has been edited by Old Dog (edited 03 December 2000).]

[OldAce]

The space taken by MFA was originally meant to built a MAS Club for the benefit of the staff before it was hijacked. The management reckon in the end by having a club the staff will get together closer and will expose any wrong doings that happenens in the airline.

So the idea was scrubbed whilst SIA had a built a beutiful club that made their staff to contribute and work harder.

I didn't know that guy Syed Kechik is still around and was involved, that guy he made Sabah state go bankcrupt in the mid 70's with Tun Mustafa. That's another story..hope some pilot can come up with the real story when they were with Sabah Air.

[Old Dog]

OldAce, I am not sure about what you said about a MAS 'club'. And who would drive 160+km just for some gossips? As for me, a glass of teh-tarik at Simpang Air Base might make a little more sense. Why do I have a strange feeling that you are one of those sore old timer? But you were ex-RMAF, impossible! (It does not compute!)

But I learned that Saffuan Group later became interested with purchase of MFA. I did not follow up on that sale, not sure if it went through. I have no idea who owns MFA now.

[This message has been edited by Old Dog (edited 04 December 2000).]

[alfa75twinspark]

Guys,

I'm interested in getting a CPL. I have no flight experience. Which school in Malaysia should I enroll in? Is it worth it? I have enough money to not work for a few years. I was thinking of flying with MAS if and when I get my CPL.

I have a BS & MS in Electrical Engineering. I'm currently working as a VLSI engineer for Cisco Systems but would like to have a change of career since I'm still relatively young (26), although I understand 26 is quite old to start a career as a pilot. But flying is something I've always wanted to do.

Unfortunately my family is not well connected and I didn't fail SPM, so does that mean I cannot become the fleet captain eventually?

I have a family member who is a MAS Pilot and he doesn't seem to bitch or moan too much about some of you old fogeys in there (no offence intended).

Anyway, I'm not very big physically, in fact I'm petite at 5' 5" an 130 lbs. So seriously, where should I start?

Thank you in advance!

[This message has been edited by alfa75twinspark (edited 08 December 2000).]

[OldAce]

OldDog:

I meant the space occupied by the present MAS Training School at Kelana Jaya.

[Adamastor]

Hi to anito4a, FlyingCrew and OldDog - I'm one of the old school MFA-ers as well (1993). Would love to chat and see what you guys are up to - drop me a line!

------------------
Climb like your life depends on it......because it does!

[BorneoPilot]

Once again I thank all that responded to my question. here`s another one, or two...
(^_^)
1. What can I fly or what kinda jobs are available after my Canadian CPL/MULTI-IR conversion is done from MFA?

2. what are the other qualifications required for hire? (Undergrad? diplomas? foreign languages?)

Terima Kasih!

[BorneoPilot]

To alfa75twinspark,
I am a pilot in training here in Canada and I am loving it, if you love aviation, go for it!

Fly Safe!

[alfa75twinspark]

Hi Wooblah,

You assumed I was a male to begin with. Well I am not, hence the term petite was used. DUH! Are you really a pilot? This is lame. How will you ever past your own psychological test by making the wrong assumption at the get go. Geez!

1-800 Gay steward? Do you get any lower? Judging by some of the post on the other forum, some of you old pilots are really lame! I know for sure that most MAS pilots, old or young do not act like you and that old-ace.

Anyway thank you Borneo Pilot. Are you Malaysian? Trainning in Canada? What did it cost you? If MAS doesn't higher female pilots, than I can pass this info to my cousin who works about 2 miles away from me and is also interested.

Alfa

[OldAce]

Alfa75

Reading your post makes me think you are a mixed ball. I had initially dismissed the idea of responding to your posh but since you had mentioned me directly in your second you leave me with no choice.

What we are bitching here is about the injustice in MAS. You young chickos would not understand it would you. Your family member pilot never had it so good as a pilot in MAS. Join just 10 years ago, spend 1 year on B737 then 4 years on B747 then straight as commanders on B737 for 3 years before going on to the B777 as Captain. He got no excuse to bitch about anything and if he does I'll put a tape on his mouth. I say good for him.

We old 'fogeys' had spent about 10 years in the Air Force, 8 years on the F27, 7 years on the B737 and 6 years on the Airbus simply because the airline had not been fair to us. Everytime we are due for promotion to higher fleet the company put an expatriate pilot in our place to block our advancement and to reserve the slot for a more senior copilot (but junior in age by as much as 15 years) who never seem to pass their ATPL.

Well would you get offended if I call you a 'young punk' who does not appreciate what he/she had got, had no respect for their elders and at the end of it type (no offence intended).

[MAStake]

Obviously you haven't learnt that respect is earned.

[alfa75twinspark]

Hi OldAce,

Fogey or fogy means a person of stodgy or old-fashioned habits and attitudes. I believe even you will agree to this, because of the bad treatment you received? Anyway the pilot in my family joined MAS about 20 years ago. He doesn't really bitch or moan as much although he acknowledges how Mr. 019 killing MAS and how his fleet manager caused his 747-400 to run on 3 engines at LHR just after landing.

OldAce, perhaps you'd like to give me your view on becoming an MAS pilot now. Well not for me as Wooblah has told me that females are a no no, but at least I can fill my cousin in on this. After all what better way of putting your knowledge to use instead of writting about Talibanis and Camels.

Thank you.

Alfa

[MAStake]

What knowledge????
Don't you mean twisted info????

[PILOST]

Hello Alfa75TwinSpark,

Don't let this guys hold you back on your dreams of flying.Although MAS presently don't employ ladies (what a shame!),there are other avenues for you.

Pelangi Air presently has a female co-pilot on the F50 & countless other ladies in the Air Force.One of them is a mother of 2 (the last time I read about her) & is a Fighter instructor pilot.The rest are flying other type of a/c & are enjoying it!

So,don't let the postings in this forum deter from you achieving your dreams.We sure would love to have some ladies to liven things up & give us different perspectives!(In flying of course!)

Safe Flying All!
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
PILOST

p.s. Wooblah....shame on your sexist remark!

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

To all readers,

I with out hesitation apologise for my previous comments and have thus deleted the thread.

I wish to say that I have the highest regard for our cabin crew and for the excellent job they do under terrible conditions and extremely poor salary scale. In short their achievments are and have never been recognised to the extent it should be by the company before and now.

Cheers, Wooblah.

[BorneoPilot]

To alfa75twinspark,

it`s about $30,000CDN to get your PPL, CPL and Multi-IFR here in Canada.you`ll have at least 200hrs logged. Lots of uncontrolled aerodromes around and you`ll learn real seat of the pants flying out here in the Bush. plus the airport I fly out of has a mix of the jets and the local flying clubs piper cubs and cessnas. Great weather and best of all...the scenery is breath-taking! Interested? I will be happy not to be the only Malaysian doing flight training here in Western Canada.

(^o^)

[OldAce]

Alfa75

What has being badly treated got to do with being 'fogey' and now you mentioned 'lame' I detest that statement and feel insulted. If I used that word on my old instructor he will definitely pull out the control stick on his side and whack my bonedome whenever I make a mistake in aerobatics. Time had changed.

I had been looking for the pilot that landed in LHR with one engine flamed out due to fuel shortage and at last there is a trace of him and that event truly happened. Knowing MAS this kind of incidents were kept secret, sometime to protect the individual, that no pilot learn a lesson from it.

The pilot in your family member doesn't bitch that much as he is considered fortunate in MAS. As he is a non ex-Air Force things were better for him, seniority were grease on, promotion always on time, no juniors overtook him etc.

He is sitting fat and happy and satisfied and flying the jumbo after 10 years in the airline. Maybe he does not see the whole picture, like his 3-engine arrival in LHR are the results of the Taliban fuel policy. Imagine he does not even have fuel to do a go around. I definitely would have diverted to Frankfurt early rather than put the aircraft in that unsafe situation. This kind of complacency and lack of airmanship will kill him and 400 passengers one day!

The pilots with principles had all flown away rather than following the stupid policy of the Talibans. Only the old lame ones remains. A lot of the young ones had not being taught critical thinking in schools of the 80's so they could'nt care less of the airline future.

Like I said you are a mixed ball. From your writing you don't sound like a rookie, maybe you are the 20 years in the airline pilot himself out with some agenda of your own.


MAStake: If you had nothing to contribute here, just shut up


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 16 December 2000).]

[milleniumdinosaur]

Hey mastake, oldass just can't stand any opinion other than his own. You've flown with that type before ---- ex air force guys who think they know everything and consistently prove how wrong they are.
Keep on posting ..... oldass may not know what freedom of opinion is but most of us in ppruneland do!!!
He sounds a lot like the taliban he keeps on harping about.

[MAStake]

A reply like "just shut up" says more about the oldass than i could ever post.
Well done oldasss. In one fell swoop you've destroyed whatever little credibility you had.

[OldAce]

milleniumdinosaur

I had practiced CRM in 1968 when I first become commander even before you are born.

Well you had flown with the non-Air Force type too who think they are god and will not allow you to say anything and create a tense cockpit environment.

The difference between the Taliban and me is that I had not made other peoples life miserable.

Don't equate one liner statement as opinion. And I'll say here again if MAStake and you do not have anything to contribute…SHUT YOUR TRAPS.

I'm not interested in creditbility and popularity here. I can shaft that stuff up your *ss. All I want is the truth.


[This message has been edited by OldAce (edited 16 December 2000).]

[kurmitola]

And the truth is that Oldass is one old and bitter soul who is trying to live in his past glory ( if any....). What a shame has he put on the other ex-air force guys whom are good and dont spent more than 7 years in the company before getting their widebody command. Well done lads...keep it up.

[joblessflyer]

I have a mixed feeling after reading the threads.

I started flying lesson 15 yrs ago cos the air force rejected my application for cadet pilot.It took me 2 yrs to do my PPL cos I was always run out of money, and often have to sneak pass under the accounts clerk window at the flying club cos I have no money to pay for that day's flight.

After PPL,I applied for my national airlines but was turned down thinking that maybe by doing self-sponsore CPL might stand a chance.

So with my request my family sold our house to fund me for my CPL and took a additional loan for my instrument rating.

After completing the CPL/IR with almost 500 applications sent out to airlines all over the world as far as places I never heard before,I found myself jobless, homeless and worst of all penniless and foodless.

I started to provide free flying to anyone as long as they provide me three meals a day. I even had to fly illegally for operators without insurance/visa/c of a etc just to fill my stomach and clock hours. At the worst point was that the creditors were after my family's back for the loan.

I never gave up, I never complaint, I never blamed anyone for anything cos I understand no body owes me a living and no body told me the world is fair.

Today, with about 2000hrs, almost 1000 jet and 500 turboprop (gained with most short term, free lance, instruction and rock bottom salary job)I am still jobless and not complaining cos maybe I am not good enough for airlines, or maybe my luck/break is not due yet, or I have not met the right people at the right time, at the right place. But most of all I know no body in this world owes me a living.

I am not refering to anyone's thread and if I had accidentally offended anybody, my apologies.

Cheers guys and girls.

[BorneoPilot]

Boy....this is depressing...the big guys critisizing each other, MAS is being run into the ground, some jobless pilot starving and newbie pilots wondering if what he/she getting into has a future in Malaysia.

well....Merry Christmas Everyone!

[Goldwing2000]

Merry Christmas and Hari Raya to all ppruners wherever you may be. Joblessflyer, I seriously admire your strength and courage and all I can say is keep your spirits up and hopefully your time will come. It's people like you that make flying together more enjoyable after all the sweat and tears you've put in. Good luck in your endeavours.
Milleniumdinousar, if you have the time and experience that OldAce has acquired over the years then you're entitled to your comments but up to then show some respect or else 'Shut Up'. Try to understand the big picture and engage your brain before opening your mouth.
Cheers.
GW

----------------
If it moves, then funk it!

[novice]

Well Bp,

There are a lot of situations you can find yourself in. If you take driving a car for example, initially you can't wait till you're 18 to take the driving test and drive your old man's car to town and take your girlfriend out on a date with, and probably dreaming of the sports car you'd like to own and drive by 25.

You don't put the negativities in your mind like what if I fail the test 10 times, what if I get involved in an accident and kill my best friend or a family member or what if, what if?????? Do you?

The point is, if you want to ultimately be put off from flying altogether, then visiting this thread/forum is one of the ways you can do that. You will probably be one of the young chikus Old Ace mentioned about and if you're so depressed by what you read....then don't. There are a lot of self help books out there in the bookstores. Try Anthony Robbins...

You are in a different league and in a different time zone, so don't take NO from an unqualified person. Old Ace, Pilost, Wooblah, Kurmit, Slasher, each have their points because they have experienced what's good and bad for them. Everybody has their story.

If you really want to work here in Mal, Sin or even in Canada, go for it. Experience it before you decide whether or not it is good for you.

I know a guy like Mr Jobless too but was quite put off by his lack of back bone and his attitude of putting himself first before the family. Even tho' there were many other job openings for him, he didn't want to do any of them, because he believed that he was born to be a pilot and nothing else will do. I am not saying Joblessflyer has no back bones, but what I am saying is there is usaually more to it.

I am having a great time flying and loving every minute of it, not to mention the parties we have with the cabin crews, my weekly travels to foreign lands which is paid for by the company, meeting all sorts of people, some other perks that we still enjoy from the company, prospects for retiring wealthy and lots other blessings that we tend to take for granted after a while...because like everybody else....we want more!!! and familiarity breeds contempt. If I can help it, why not?

So, do the right thing by deciding what you'd like to do for yourself in the future and bloody well complete it. Take the necessary steps to achieve employment and soon you'll be 50yrs old and back in this thread bitchin like everyone else. You probaly be saying..."During my time....." and now "You young chikus....". Then you die....like everyone else too.

[OldAce]

kurmitola

Why do you always talk with sh*t in your brain and harping the same old thing about being old and bitter again and again. Is your brain so fogey that you don't you have any other points to make.

The other thing I notice about you, your memory are just short spanned cannot remember what happened just 2-3 years back. Are you growing senile or is it in your genes.

Kurmitola says:

"What a shame has he put on the other ex-air force guys whom are good and don't spent more than 7 years in the company before getting their widebody command."

I am referring to the ex-Air Force guys who joined after 1975 and before 1987 that were held back in their promotions against the MOU policy. What I can't stand are unethical people in the company who make their own rules. But when it comes to their own kind they follow the rules religiously. How much favors corruption money and others had you received. If you are a muslim you are going to be punished heavily when the day of reckoning comes.

No wonder the airline is in such a mess, with idiot people like you running it. People with no moral values, no moral courage, no integrity, immature, and the list goes on and on. Are you one of those Captains who goes around at night knocking on the young stewardesses room to pressure her to go to the discos, bringing black marks to the pilot fraternity. Or are you the one who typed and sent "Anu,Anu,Anu…." for the whole world to see.

Even here you want to write lies and rots, what can I say.

[kurmitola]

OOOOoooohh...you mean you are in that group. Well ..where do you stand on the seniority list then ? Those guys were promoted because they are senior to you regardless whether they were once your co-pilot. They joined before you, what is there to bitch and moan about? I myself wud prefer the type of seniority that SQ has. But we both dont own the bloody airline (MH) and contreary to what you believe, I dont even run it either.You are quick to dismiss any opinion that do not support your argument ( not a rare thing for Ex Mil ) but you forgot this is a public forum and you can't just ask people to shut-up, try and create your own forum and then you can do whatever you want like deleting opinion that is against what you believe. I,m a normal guy but I cannot stand exeggerations . I dont mean more harm to you espcially and older person :) but if you continue your Bull#*it I will definitely play on that is wind you up.

[joblessflyer]

To Mr Goldwing2000: Thanks for the encouragement.

To Mr Novice: I am at the meantime holding a job clearing rubbish bins, flood sweeping to make some bucks for my baby's powder while waiting for my big break,thanks.

[MAStake]

I've flown longer than you so don't patronise me. When you attain a level of maturity that equates to a monkey then feel free to tell me to shut up. Until then (if ever) keep on bitching .You're a good study in bitterness and lack of CRM (if you know what that stands for, that is.)

[OldAce]

kurmitola

I am not in that group but in a way I'm representing the injustice done to the ex-AF. What we are not happy about is the way that it is done. Ok we had come in with 5000 hours, we are junior in seniority to the co-pilot. We got our command in MAS on the F27 and spend 8 years there. We got on to the B737 as commander and spent another 6 years there. But when there is a vacancy on the wide body you all put an expatriate to block our promotion especially when we got more than the criteria factor.. To reserve the slot for the senior co-pilot who had not even pass his ATPL after joining the airline for 20 years. (Now at this point in time you clever company people tells us we don't have much widebody experience)

What we are angry is the unethical way it is done. In the MOU it is stated that if you have the criteria you can be upgraded to the higher slot irrespective whether you are junior. If there is a commander slot on the wide body and the seniors are not ready for it then we should have filled that slot (as a nationalisation excersise) rather than paying high salary to the expat for many years. The expat could have been placed on the narrow body at less cost to the airline

If the slot is taken by junior pilot just because senior co-pilot cannot pass the ATPL it is just too bad. But reserving the seniority slot for them for 20 years is just too ridiculous.

Then in 1995 under Camel, a new policy came out in secrecy that the senior co-pilot with just only 3 years command experience on the B737 can become commander on the B747-400. You all change the established criteria overnight just like that without much consultation in MAPA. Where does this leave us, commanders with 6 years on wide body and 14 years as commander on narrow body. You mean to say commander with the only 3 years got better track record than us all, in the name of seniority. This is what they call the draconian seniority system like anything else MAS….Mana Ada System.

[OldAce]

MAStake

Had I ever tell kurmitola,Pilost or others to shut up …no… because they wrote about something here. OK Since you had written 5 lines, you can open your mouth now. But I still think you got pea brain as you only managed to only write 5 lines and that about mostly rubbish.

If you had flown before 1964 then I'll stop patronizing you.

[alfa75twinspark]

Hi,

So who is this camel? My dad had a close friend who replaced Mr. Aziz. I called him uncle Kem. Is that him OldAce is referring to as Camel?

The pilot in my family said that he abused MAS' facilities, and had an "aquaintence" in Mexico whom he always sends flowers to. Anyway he's out now. My dad liked him as a friend but thought that he was not good as his job at all. Just curious that's all. I wonder if this is true at all.

[novice]

Mr Job less,

Don't come to me if you've got some gripes. I wasn't responsible for your life and I do have some problems of my own but do not wish to seek any attention from others of them here. Believe me, you wouldn't want to know my story....everybody would probably puke and not remember what we're discussing or looking at here.

My message wasn't personal to you. I just thought that maybe my friend who was like you could have done something else before plunging into the deep end without any security of any sort of work or career.

Really, if I had offended you ....then I am sorry about your plight but what do you really want?

I was fair in discerning my views to BP especially about the other side of midnight..there's quite a bright light.

[MAStake]

5 lines of sense is a helluva lot better than the 5000 lines of nonsense that emanates from that vacuum between your ears.
Everyone who disagrees with you is a pea-brain and you seem to think you're the only qualified pilot. You obviously have no idea about CRM.
Grow up junior, and maybe someday in the next millenium we'll let you play with the big boys.

[kurmitola]

Old Ace, I would like to retract the post I made above. In your previous post regarding the seniority and injustice done to you all..I have to say I totally agree with you 100%. However, I must correct you on the certain things. The criteria reduction and changes did not happen only during Camel's time. Infact its well before that. If you were in the same batch with Tg.D and Harr*## H. then you ride the boat with them. ...they shud not be employed in the first place ( try lookin at their academic qualifications ). And expats ? Blocking you promotion although you guys have the criteria ? Try asking 001 TS..... You and I know flyin widebody is no bloody big deal whatmore as a F/O. These idiots make it big so to reserve the slots for their boys whom are so dumb to even pass ATPL so much so they have to be coached in the company organised ATPL course and still some managed to fail after that.And after they passed ? 2 days later they are on the upgrade course and after being checked out...they go around tellin and asking those young first officers about why they are not wearing 3 bars yet ( not knowing those boys had a frozen ATPL already..just waiting for the hours...he..he...what a bunch of idiots ).Or maybe 001 and Khairie are also part of the Taliban network......they srew you guys up as well didn't they ? Honestly tell me if all I have written here is not true...you and I know!!!

[joblessflyer]

Mr Novice
Don't be offended! Have no intention to bitch or beg for compassion. I understand your side of story as I have seen worst. Had a friend borrowed some money from a bank for his CPL and one month before graduating from the course he crashed and died! School did not insure student pilot and his poor mother had to service the loan. Understood they did not come from well to do family.

Anyway, wish you luck in your career.

[This message has been edited by joblessflyer (edited 19 December 2000).]

[OldAce]

For once you are coming out with the true facts. So now I can start discussing with you.

Yes there are crooked people too in the OldGaurds (post Hassan and Khairi times) OO1 TS must had made a lot through the employment agency to put all the expat on the higher fleets.

But the one behind it all is still Camel right from the early 80's since he became Fleet Captain and later on as Director of Safety. He had this grudge against senior (senior to him in the military service) ex-Air Force guys who joined the airline. Maybe since his seniors in Cadet Wing sodomised him for being such a corky junior.

Someone here mentioned that we are all going to die one day. The young will becomes the old in the next few years. But what is important is how we had carried out our job or responsibility. Do you want to die and people come and piss on your grave. Or even the living like Camel had built a fort for himself as you can see at Jalan Burharnuddin in Taman Tun Dr. Ismail. What with all the bad things he had done he thinks people are going to bomb his house one fine day. Is he going to live with peace of mind for the rest of his life?

[milleniumdinosaur]

Oldass, get a life. There's more to living than bitching and moaning. We cannot undo the past. If all you allege is true what are YOU doing about it now?
Come out in the open and prove your words or are you hiding behind your anonomity in this forum?

Put your money where your mouth is.

Are your cojones the size of peas?

[novice]

What are cojones and how do you pronouce it????

[MAStake]

Cojones are what the oldass professed to have a lot of when he was in the airforce. However, when he joined the airline they shrank and today all he can do is bitch, bitch, bitch.
Which, incidentally, is what all female dogs spend their life doing. Which is why bitches don't have cojones.
Isn't that true oldass?

[OldAce]

Milleniumdinosaur & MAStake


There must then be some truth in what I say for both of you to be irked by it. Maybe you are the junior who overtook the Ex-AirForce senior pilots who had to go and serve the Twin Otter for 3-5 years after they passed their ATPL By the time these ex-AF pilot comes on the F27 they do not have the criteria to go on to the B737 and you juniors overtook them again and so on to the wide body.

"If all you allege is true what are YOU doing about it now? "

Yes we cannot undo the past, but by highlighting it here, in future no ex-AF pilots will be conned again by the airline. Also I'm working on informing my MP that in future to be a pilot in MAS the applicant must have served 7-10 years in the Air Force.

To come out in the open, you must be joking what with the mentality that we have in MAS. Would you? Otherwise both of you can put both your foot in your mouth.

[MAStake]

Bitch and Moan ...... that's all you're good for.

When you finally get some cojones then you can join the major league ..... before that, keep on bitching. That's all you're good for.

[MAStake]

Oldass,if somebody posted on the net that you were a cretin I for one would be irked by it. Even a cretin couldn't be that stupid. Would that mean that there was truth to that statement?

Your powers of deduction require considerable honing.

GROW UP_!!!!!!!

[MAStake]

To all AF pilots who do not want to be conned by the airline:

STAY IN THE AIR FORCE!!!!!!!

[MAStake]

..... and if you did join the airline then you must be intellectually challenged. Oldass is proof of that.

[OldAce]

MAStake, small fatt can you just piss off..
Stop making a fool of yourself here.

[MAStake]

I may be a fool but that's preferable to being a MORON like oldass.

[MAStake]

If one is unable to counter-argue then the obvious solution is to tell one's opponent to "shut up" or "piss off."

Doesn't say much for you oldass.

But what else can be expected from an old ass except hot air from the rear?

[NCC-1701e]

There are many, if not the majority of ex AF or OLD pilots who look down on the younger pilots. They don't seem to care about capabilities, potential and other positive qualities of the younger pilots. Most of them think it is unfair that they had to suffer so much for so long to earn as much as a 'young punk' who had it all easy. They seem to want every other pilots to suffer as much as they did and they seem to blame all their suffering on other people.

First of all, looking down on others is a sign of inadequacy. The fear of being inferior. The constant need to tell oneself that he/she is better than others is another sign. Allowing others who are perceived as inferior to be in the same or higher category as him/her, is a blow to his/her percieved status and ego. Inadequate people tend to go to extremes to prove his/her worth and such are more prone to take dangerous chances.

The branding of the younger pilots of being inferior, is a poor resource management as it will cause them not to exploit the abilities of the younger pilots. As such they will make poorer leaders.

Wanting everyone else to suffer and go through as much oneself reminds me of a story in a religion. Once there was an exalted Angel who refused to prostate to a human seen as inferior to itself. So god cast him out and stripped him from his high position. The fallen angel was furious and blames the human. He vowed he would take as many humans to suffer his fate of endless suffering in hell. Wanting difficulty, hardship or suffering for others is just plain evil. If you hate the younger pilots earning as much as you then hate it all you want but don't blame, look down or make it difficult for them.

To OldAce, would you please elaborate again as to what experiences that you gained in the AF, that can't be learned elsewhere, and is so important to civillian flying, that all MAS pilots should fly AF first? Maybe, other people might have other thoughts about it too.

[MAStake]

To NCC:
The reply you'll get from oldass will be :
"shut up"
"piss off"

or words to that effect.

I wonder if he learned that from the Air Farce ......... hmmmmmmm!!!!

[prunejuice]

Hi fellow far-eastern ppruners,
I have been a regular visitor to this forum but never a contributor until now that is.
This far eastern forum is especially interesting, because of the quality (or lack of) posts and replies here.
It is getting like Jerry Springer everyday and I want in!!
We have characters like OldAce, Pilost, etc brilliant!
Allow me to get my 2 cents worth in....

To Old Ace- From your postings you must be a pretty aged and experienced driver. But with all that bitterness in you no wonder the younger guys in MAS who flew with you as your co-pilot are messed up. Imagine having you as a role model. I can only imagine, apart from having to handle ATC communications and paperwork and Wx monitoring they have to hear your bitching and complaining and bad-mouthing throughout the flight.
Understand this Ace, all you bitterness inside will have the better of you sooner rather than later. After all these years you are adding more enemies to your ever growing list. The way I look at it, the same co-pilots that you flew with years ago and bitched to years ago are the same people that you are now bitching about. You have no others to blame but yourself for the general image that the cadets have of the ex-AF.
After all they had you to look up to.




[This message has been edited by prunejuice (edited 03 January 2001).]

[OldAce]

prunejuice

Assumptions, assumptions and more assumptions…

I can sense that kurmitola had bowed out and had send some young chickos to take over his place to lambast me. No fear..I had been 'baptized' under real fire in planes before.

Now coming to the first assumption….how do you know that I had treated my co-pilot badly. For me when I'm in the cockpit its fully professionals even with some sh*t ass pilots. unlike some (e.g. Camel, go ask him how many pilots he had messed up). I leave my home problems, financials worries and personal grudes and opinion out of the cockpit and that includes religion and politics. Since 1968 my co-pilots had mostly (98%) had been happy flying with me. I was practicing CRM way back then when CRM had not even being evolved yet.

It was lately that there are some #ss-hole types of pilot who had come up too fast especially the Taliban backed ones that p*ss me off. Don't get me wrong I work well with most co-pilots its just the odd few who got the backing of their Taliban godfather. Other co-pilots and young Captains fear not, my statements were not directed at you.

So I reckon again that both of you are nothing but some #ss holes send by kurmitola the Taliban to antagonize me. If you have no in-depth understanding of the whole issues…just piss off before you too get burned.

Just observe MAStake how pathetic he looks trying to get my attentions with his 2 liner statements and 4 postings before he gets my response.

[kurmitola]

Now Guys...
What did I tell you ? Even people from the other side of the world could not but notice whats at the back of Oldass's skull !!!
No mate , I was away on a flight and ever willing to prove that you are a disgrace to the AF and sadly to MH too..... :)

[MAStake]

Oldass, your stupidity is overwhelming.

[ManaAdaSystem]

Hey Old Ace,

Make that a one line statement!
Must be a MAStake?
I hear KLIA is the No. 1 airport in the world. In stealing pax luggage that is. Not exactly what they were aiming for?
How come the only aircraft i saw on ground at KLIA were halal aircraft? Do they get a special discount?

[snowmanfx]

Those MAB check-in baggage scanners at KLIA is so advanced that can distingush between USD and JPY, fake and genuine diamonds. With many blind spots in the 2km+ transfer tunnel, ill discipline staffs amd crap management, stolen lugagge is no doubt among the highest in the world (in percentage).

[MAStake]

Maybe if we put some ex-AF personnel there the situation may improve.
Oldass, you should speak to your MP again.

[BorneoPilot]

now...now...now....this message board is getting very childish. as a relatively new aviator myself, I cringe to think about those characters that I will eventurely fly with..
we, pilots should set a good example to the new-bies or wanabees.

some good and constructive posts....guys and gals?

[MAStake]

With a bit more experience you'll learn to bitch and moan like the rest of us.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Dear Borneo Pilot,

Have you enquired as to conversion of your Canadian license to Malaysian with regard to the DCA (Malaysia).

I posted the relevent steps for you earlier!
Perhaps you should start the process now as it will take a considerable ammount of time to complete, things move much more slowly here as compared with Canada.

And how is your training going? Have you passed your CPL and or ATPL, What about your Command instrument rating and Multi engine Instrument rating and training. Are your legs sore from EFATO's, how many flying hours do you have in the log book now?

I would be most interested in your progress and would be most appreciative if you could post your progress in far east for all the other wanabees training overseas as I believe that it would be of immense help to all of you in the same predicament.

Happy New Year, Wooblah.

[MASystem]

DCA is a real joke. Real joke. If I were you BorneoPilot, stay where you are and make a living there. I thought Malaysia was good. You'll know when you go back. Everything is in shambles. All they know is BOLEH here and there. Unless they are able to recognize their weaknesses and improve the management, I think it'd be better for you to get a job there.

The "tidak apa" attitude and the lack of "self pride" amongst many seems to be, in my opinion, the greatest obstacle in achieving "perfection" in anything they do.
And this CANNOT be tolerated in Aviation as there is little room for "imperfections".

You might be shocked to know the amount of hours you need to fly (and hence the amount of money you need to invest) at MFA to convert. MFA is in great need of Help.

Whatever DCA tells you, Make sure you get them to send you a hard copy of whatever your deal with DCA is (CPL/IR conversion etc)
They seem to have different stories everyday.
Bottom line, think twice before going back.

Also, try playing some lotto before going back for the conversion. AND if you do return, please help yourself by not expecting too much from the people whom you'll be dealing with. :)

All the Best.



[This message has been edited by MASystem (edited 09 January 2001).]

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Dear Borneo,

Unfortunatly, what MASystem says is very very true, I can see by the way you write that you are quite westenised in your thinking and attitude, personally I think that this is a good thing and especially important in the field of aviation where the flight deck atmosphere should be level and open with crew members working as a team together in harmony to achieve a commen goal which is the safe operation of the aircraft from pushback to docking bay. Unfortunatly in Malaysia we are back in the dark ages and the very points instigated and learned in CRM are ignored, furthermore the open attitude that should be displayed when it is displayed is costrued as rudeness and a bad attitude that will dog you throughout your career in MAS.

Think long and hard before you make this big life / lifestyle decision.

Get you ATPL fast, regards, Captain Wooblah

[This message has been edited by CAPTAIN WOOBLAH (edited 09 January 2001).]

[BorneoPilot]

training has been real fun here! the weather is so bad OVC002 Icing in the 2000ft level, etc. good IFR training. thank you all for the concern and advice. will take them to heart.
I will document my training progress here soon. about DCA. will need to get all my documents first before sending it to them.
more next time.

question: what are the flight weather in Malaysia? lot`S of TCU avoidance I presume.

[BorneoPilot]

guys, any tips on NDB circling approaches?

[MASystem]

Borneopilot,

First of and foremost, THINK AHEAD & BE READY. Develop that sense of urgency even from the Top of Descent. Hear your heartbeat up your ears! Use that as a tool to judge how well prepared you are.

Alright, assuming you have nailed the sector entry, the holding pattern & the approach, ALL way inside tolerances, you are now into the circling manouevre.

After breaking visual, the first thing you would want to do is assess if you are within the circling area. To assess this, you should be able to see the RWY threshold [you'd be able to see the RWY you are expecting to use (from the TAF or from other aircraft) because you would've thought AHEAD, what the RWY orientation would be relative to your inbound course] and from the threshold, approximate your position to ensure you are inside the circling area.

Then after assessing the visibility and maintaining the required obstacle clearance, you can either descend to your circuit height(if your MDA is above circuit height) while positioning yourself in a KNOWN position - try to fly a normal circuit pattern, weather permitting of course. Otherwise, maintain MDA till you're mid base or on finals, it depends. Again, All this would have been thoroughly planned WELL, WELL AHEAD. Then comes the Pre-Landing checks etc.

Always THINK AHEAD. If you f**k up anything, be it in the holding or you went out of tolerances turning INBD, NEVER look back at what you have done wrong, it can wait till you got the chocks back on later. Focus on what's next. BE READY. Tell yourself, F**k It and lets move on!.

Always talk yourself through the flight. Set your own standards and aim to better those standards on every flight.

Never let your aircraft take you somewhere your brain did not get to 5 minutes earlier!

Last but not least, all this can only be achieved if you are KEEN enough to get it done. In addition to the above, for goodness sake, don't be a Stealth, let everyone in the circuit / AD know where you are & what you're doing - DONT FORGET THE RADIO CALLS.

Be Professional & ENJOY YOUR FLIGHT!

:) MASystem :)



[This message has been edited by MASystem (edited 14 January 2001).]

[BorneoPilot]

to MASystem: Thanks for the tips. will ponder them BEFORE a flight. Circling NDB can become hairy pretty fast if not prepared.

to Wooblah: currently have 170TT, half way through Multi-IR (called it Multi-IFR here)
and what is the differnce between command Multi-IR and Multi-IR? (there is only a multi-IFR rating here in CDN) CPL and IFR ground school running currently. ground schools will be done latest mid-march. then exam time! ATPL frozen - question - Malaysia and Singapore pilots sit for the JAA ATPL exams right? or is it the UK ATPL? I am really confused here - thinking about doing that course here in N-America, after all the `bad news` about training situation at home.
advice?

[MASystem]

Borneopilot,

Apply for a Canadian Permanent Residency status NOW. :)

[BorneoPilot]

to MASystem: hah...I wish, but currently don`t really qualify YET...!
ps: what do you fly?

[Hermie]

BORNEO PILOT !

How do you do ?

I must be an ancient to reply to this post !

I'd liked to know which Flying School in Canada that you are doing ? How much does it cost and is it worth your money ? I'm from Singapore and I was thinking of going to MFA, but now I changed my mind after reading those post..! Nevertheless my vision and ambition to be an Airline Pilot is still there.. !!

Update me yea !

Thank you very much !

Cheers,
Herman

[BorneoPilot]

hello Hermie,
It`s good to hear from someone that is interested in an aviation career. for further information about schools in CDN. email me at
[email protected]

[Gnote]

Hey BP how is it going? Passed the INRAT Yet?

[BorneoPilot]

Hello Gnote,
I am glad to announce that the INRAT exam
was a success! next up get the CPL written out of the way, then the fun part starts - flying!
ps: Are employers interested in how good/bad one`s written test results are?

[Gnote]

Congrats on passing the INRAT Bud!!! Although it is kinda strange that your school is making you complete your IFR Rating before getting your CPL, typically it is the other way around. Anyways NO employer cares what marks you got in your exams, all they care about is that you have your licences in hand. What are your future plans like? Are you going to stay in Canada and instruct?

[crl]

Hi Borneo Pilot,
Just wanna wish you all the best in your flying career. If you have decided to start flying in Far East; converting your license through Malaysian DCA is perhaps the best way. It may be troublesome or tedious but definitely worth the effort once you get it done.
Regards

[BorneoPilot]

Thanks Gnote!
actually, getting my multi-IFR before my
CPL was my own idea. that way, I will spend
less money and the 200 hours flight time required before one can get a CPL is
satisfied all at once.

after all this...would like a job!
will fly anything, anywhere.
preferably not the instructor route.
any suggestions anyone?

[Gnote]

Did you try the Cadet program at Singapore Airlines? I am not sure if I asked you that before. I finally got an answer from the DCA about my conversion to the MAlaysian Licence and I was exempted from half the written exams. By the way it took almost 1 year and loads of remainder phone calls before I got a response. If you want to stay in Canada, the best route is to instruct while on a Work Visa and then for apply Permanent resident status. I am not sure if they will issue you a Work Visa for a Line or Charter Pilot, but contact the Immigration Folks and ask them anyways. Let me know.

[BorneoPilot]

Gnote,
Are you thinking of heading back to Malaysia?
Where are you flying now? What equipment?
how did you get there? How long did it take?

Singapore Airlines, attended their recruiting presentation last year and made some contacts.
Will try, but I think I am out of their age bracket. but will try anyhow.

[Gnote]

I am currently flying charters in Alberta. Took many months of looking around to get flying. Yes, I was thinking of going back to Malaysia to work if I get an oppurtunity. Were you interviewed in Singapore for SIA? How old are you now if you don't mind me asking?

[BorneoPilot]

Gnote
I`m 26 and I think the cut off for SQ`s
cadet program is 25 for Malaysians.
How many hours required to get a charter job? did you instruct before that?

[Gnote]

When I got my charter position I had just under 1000 hrs. I had accumulated time flying guys with strange desires to jump out of planes (skydivers). Flew them for a year and a half. Lots of fun and a great time builder and never got an instructors rating. Nothing wrong with instructing, you will get loads of experience and time.

Too bad about the age requirement for Singapore Airlines. Have you started looking at other places in Malaysia or Canada?