Mega Merged: Latest Rex Media Releases re:Routes & the Pilot Shortage

[SIUYA]

REX MEDIA RELEASE 06 May 2008

Rex Announces Network Changes

Regional Express (Rex)has today announced a number of network schedule changes as a result of the continuing pilot shortage. Rex will withdraw from the Cooma (Snowy Mountains) to Sydney route indefinitely, which had been planned to recommence from 6 June 2008, as well as reducing flying activities elsewhere in the network.

Rex General Manager, Network Strategy and Sales, Mr Warrick Lodge said,
“When we announced our decision to suspend the summer schedule for Cooma, we were counting on a lessening of the recruitment activities of the major carriers over the winter period to enable us to resume the Cooma service in winter. Unfortunately this was not to be and in the most recent month of April, Rex experienced 5% attrition in our pilot ranks, with the attrition rate in this FY tracking above 50%.”

“The continued high attrition rate means that our flight schedules remain vulnerable to last minute sickness of the flight crew. We believe that the responsible course of action is to reduce the flight schedule, which will provide us with more reserve pilots and in turn will translate into a reduction of last minute flight cancellations.”

...we were counting on a lessening of the recruitment activities of the major carriers... :eek:

Doh! Rule No 1 in aviation Mr L..............NEVER assume anything :=

[Howard Hughes]

...we were counting on a lessening of the recruitment activities of the major carriers...
So there was no back up plan, or budgeting for 'worst case' scenario? Management incompetence at it's finest! :rolleyes:

[Hugh Jarse]

Perhaps Qantaslink could pick up the slack and introduce a Sydney-Cooma-Mt. Hotham Skiers service.

Sorry, that was tongue-in-cheek :}

And still both companies sit on their hands re pilot attrition:{

[farrari]

LT DAN. :D You are so correct, There is no pilot shortage

[Wizofoz]

farrari,

You don't understand the meaning of shortage in this sense. Rex does not have enough pilots because of a huge attrition rate which has the "Double Whammy" effect of meaning they need to train at high rates, whilst losing most of their experienced training staff.

They MAY have enough applicants who meet their minimum requirements, but no company can lose over 50% of it's pilots a year and not fell the pinch.

As to why they dropped Cooma, well, obviously if they have to cut services because they can't get enough pilots on line, they are going to drop their least profitable ones first.

[KRUSTY 34]

During winter Cooma makes money. Wiz' is on the money again.

Then there's Lismore, Merimbula, Albury, Orange, etc...... Not cancelled in their entireity yet, but have all suffered last minute cancellations and continue to do so. These routes are REX's core business, and they are under enormous stress. Weekends are a nightmare, as crews (who are only entitled to one weekend off per month) choose to spend time with their families rather than pay the tax man with REX's inadequate incentive payments.

And what about Brisbane? The REX CP recently assured a Brisbane based F/O (overdue for command) that come September services would resume and he could then expect a command without having to move a third time! fortunately he was able to see through that little piece of bullsh!t, and has now moved on to better patures.

REX are in serious, serious trouble. So are QFLink, but unlike REX they will Jump in (albeit belatedly) and pay their experienced pilots substantialy more to keep them. Once that happens (it has begun already), and QFLink are forced to seek out High time turbo-prop Captains for direct entry, then REX will lose the last of their commands to the opposition!

And as for Mr lodge's statement about hopeing the majors would slow down their recruitment. At a social function some time ago, a certain senior pilot commented to him that the appetite for pilots at the majors would continue for some years yet. As usual, REX management types do not consider the informed opinions of their senior staff as having any value.

Way to go Warrick!

[18-Wheeler]

Well they need to get their s**t together - Out of curiosity I filled out an on-line application about two months ago and have heard nothing from them.
Got 10,000 hours, lots of experience on many things and in many places etc.

Why no call?

(I wasn't going to take the job unless it was a Brissy-based Captain, but I didn't even get asked)

[greenslopes]

"A Really Unreliable source".............................

Rex have just announced they have sourced a solution to their short/long term crewing issues.
Quoting senior flight ops mangr Max Headroom "we realized that by removing the wings and placing a taxi sign on the roof of the SAAB crewing was no longer a problem,we also found flight duty times did not apply and nor was there any requirement for training crew,sim sessions,renewals etc".
Rex have also announced a new cadet scheme in conjunction with Taxi's Combined. Unfortunatly there is an English test..........if you pass ..you fail.
Thankfully the navigation tollerances once required can be ignored as the longer it takes the more money Rex makes.

Thank you and Goodnight

[Capt Wally]

.........where's my post ?:{



CW:bored:

[XRlent100]

Can anyone advise if Snowy Mountains or Mt Hotham would be able to take an F100? Sorry, no jepps at home...

[KRUSTY 34]

Cooma would.

Hotham, definately not!

[rcoight]

Just heard a promo for ABC radio in SA saying they will be discussing the pilot shortage and speaking to REX reps about it.

Also invited pilot's etc. to call up and have their say on why Rex and others are having difficulty attracting / retaining pilots.

Chance to perhaps put the pilot's perspective?
Ph. 1300 222 891

After 4pm SA time...

[world traveler]

It is interesting to read in this thread that pilots with more than enough hours who have applied to REX are getting no response. My best friend, who has over 2200TT with 1200 turbine, albeit S.E. Turbine, is still waiting for a reply... The application was made in January! I suppose because he is lacking in multi hours he is not worthy, especially when there will be "highly qualified" cadets with 200 hours coming through soon...:ugh:

It would be interesting to see how many experienced applicants recieved no response...

REX you have made your bed, now quietly sleep in it.

oh and for the record he ended up on bigger and better birds anyway, so it all worked for the best!:ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Quote:

"oh and for the record he ended up on bigger and better birds anyway, so it all worked for the best!:ok:"

I'd hazzard a guess world traveler, that's the reason "experienced" people are not getting a go. REX are well aware that they are uncompetitve when it comes to the retention of pilots, so they are not even bothering to try. And probably with good reason. Cadets and low time "captive" wannabes are the order of the day. They will save us!

[boofta]

The reason Rex doesn't reply to pilot applicants is simple.
They would like to con the government into allowing cheap
overseas labour in.

[captainstoobing]

Reading the last couple of posts and many others re experienced pilots not being contacted by Rex, is truly idiotic. Other than the obvious reasons, the people in recruitment are not the most efficient nor professional.
It is common courtesy (as I have experience in recruiting for an emergency service) to be contactable, approachable and provide feedback - no matter how busy you are. 1700 cadet applications are nothing when you consider ambulance and fire receive upwards of 4000 and manage to do it all in a timely manner.
Inefficiency is letting willing and experienced pilots fall by the wayside.

I am applying for the cadet program and can't even find out if they have read my application!!!
A friend of mine rang asking about the program and was abruptly told "if you apply now we won't look at your application for at least 5 months"!!!

Are they serious!!:D

What a joke!!!:ok:

Priority should be given to getting the experienced pilots moving into the system as they are cheaper to train and offer a more immediate solution.:confused:

[ACMS]

Priority should be given to getting the experienced pilots moving into the system as they are cheaper to train and offer a more immediate solution


What are you on about mate??? I hope that was tongue in cheek?

So paying peanuts to guys from South Africa IS THE ANSWER to their perceived shortage?????

Total rubbish I'm affraid.

YOU Aussies must all STAND up for yourselves and be COUNTED.

there are plenty of experienced guys/girls ALREADY IN OZ that can DO THE JOB very well.:ok:

QFlink just have to ACTUALLY RECRUIT THEM IN, then pay them properly.

Simple really.

Over to you Mr Frozzo....................incoming...........

[ACMS]

A friend of mine rang asking about the program and was abruptly told "if you apply now we won't look at your application for at least 5 months"!!!

because they are too busy GIVING YOUR JOB TO A FOREIGNER that thinks the sun shines out of QF's bum and will work eagerly for the wage they offer.
THEN in a few years they'll leave QFLink and go fly a jet anyway.

Back to square one again.

[SIUYA]

ACMS..........

One of us seems to be missing the point here, and I think it's you. :confused:

Post #19 QFlink just have to ACTUALLY RECRUIT THEM [pilots] IN, then pay them properly.

Post #20 re foreigners that think the sun shines out of '...QF's bum.'

Perhaps, but this thread's about REX.

[captainstoobing]

ACMS -What I was "on about" were those pilots from Australia who are getting knocked back or not even the courtesy of a reply:=. I certainly did not mean pilots from overseas . An apparent mis-understanding;).
Nor do I agree with 'outsourcing' to other countries ie DECs.

The reference to 'cheaperer training' was referring to the cost of training a pilot with more than a thousand hrs compared to a cadet. Surely it stands to reason that these types of pilots with experience would be checked and flying the SAAB 340s quicker and bolster the ranks of very junior pilots??

Plenty of people on these forums who are Australian pilots have said the same thing, not even a reply and are left wondering "if there really is a shortage".

Simply case is the people in recruitment/HR know that they don't have to reply, that they can leave phones off the hook, because they don't give a rats... they know that if I spit the dummy and withdraw my application, someone else will take my place.:ugh:

[ACMS]

ok then Capt Stoobing, just as long as we are on the same page:ok:

QF recruitment should have a rocket shot up their rears

[captainstoobing]

That we are ACMS!!

[rogoaz]

I have heard a lot about the problem that REX in Australia is facing due to its pilots leaving the company creating some difficulties to keep the operations regular. I was asking myself why the pilots are leaving, just for making career in others airlines or maybe the labor conditions in the company is not very satisfactory?

Does anybody know something about it?

Regards!

[desmotronic]

Very very low pay compared to the cost of living here. Simple as that. Garbage collectors do better.

[Oxidant]

Management still have a 19th Century mill owners attitude...........:ugh:

[Muff Hunter]

When you can make more working as a flight attendant at any other airline in the country, this should answer your question....

[GApilut]

The company is F..:mad: Staff morale is low, they are loosing top check and trainers left right and centre(many of these have asked for a pay rise but didnt get it). The answer is staring at them right in the face. How can they possibly believe that you can live on 42K PA in sydney. It's a friggin joke. In fact I have even heard they have got 1 sim instructor left. It's a shame, the company has a lot of potential.

GA

[Howard Hughes]

It's a shame, the company has a lot of potential.

Had....:hmm:

[boardpig]

Just read the heart felt story from Rex on News.com.au.

Yeah right! Yet again I find my desk surrounded by finger pointers asking me why I, as a pilot, don't run down there with my leather helmet and goggles and help them out!!
I always enjoy the gasps of suprise when I tell them what my monthly take would be if I did. Yet again, the non flying folks simply can't comprehend it.

Rx and Ql have effectively reduced the once sought after career choice of becoming a pilot, to LESS than that of a school bus driver. (no offence to bus drivers as you guys earn more).

Roll on the 6 year cadet slaves and the 457's!! So glad I'm off overseas.

BP:ugh:

[Flyingblind]

Simple question and a simple answer;

Short term management greed at the expense of their staff and patrons.

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

So.........did anyone catch the ABC radio program? What did Rex have to say for themselves, and more importantly, did any pilots call up to put the truth forward?? And of course, what did Lawrie have to say??? :rolleyes:

[Timber]

There are enough competent pilots available in Australia for REX to hire.

The problem is not finding the pilots but retaining them.

Who cannot understand a REX Saab F/O moving to one of the bigger operators to fly a nicer, newer jet at double the pay..???

With their new school REX anticipates this flow-through of F/O's. As long as there is demand for pilots from the bigger ailrines, the school will provide new inflow to REX for F/O positions. When the flow-through stops the school is in trouble or has to start training for China and/or India..

For the Captains the situation is entirely different. It is essential that REX retains the experienced Captains, but even these are now enticed by the option to go to the bigger airlines for basically the same pay as they have today (when they start as F/O), with the prospect of getting fast-tracked to a jet command and enjoying the much higher pay as well....

It is very difficult to see how REX can stay viable without some drastic measures to retain the experienced pilots and trainers. As a minimum they would have to be looking at SERIOUS retention bonusses for these key people. Think about $25,000 - $50,000 a year for the next 2-3 years. And then still DEC's may have to be brought in as well....

With the shares trading at just above $1 it seems the market has also some doubts about how the future of REX will shape up.

[bushy]

Didn't you blokes learn anything from GA?
There was a time when operators paid for endorsements and training. Then the airlines and the flying schools convinced a squillion young blokes to get qualifications at their own expense and go into GA for " a short time" until that golden airline job came along. But it didn't come along so many quit, or went overseas, and the operators found they had become continuous free training organisation for young hopefuls who demanded twin time.
So the free endorsements are now very rare.
Our airlines have learned from this, and they are smart enough not to provide free training for the transient ones, like GA did. They have learned from the GA disaster, but it seems some pilots and some operatrs have difficulty understanding this.
A proper system requires a reasonal committment from both the employer and the employee. The better employers and the better employees will shun arrangements that do not have that committment on both sides.
So they should.

[ACMS]

A proper system requires a reasonal committment from both the employer and the employee.

So Bushy..............try telling that to a REX F/O living in Sydney on $40,000 odd dollars after he's spent huge amounts of money to get there in the first place.

It's time for Airlines to actually pay a decent fair wage and maybe a bit more for the Pilot's to WANT TO STAY.
Then the Employee might be happy to give a REASONABLE COMMITTMENT.

It's a two way street.

Simple really.

[phydeaux]

From what I understand the heading should read "Pilots problems with REX":confused:

[KRUSTY 34]

I normally agree with you bushy, but I think you're talking semantics. It's truely been a long time since anything like what you mentioned has existed in GA. No-one paid for any of my GA training, and the only reason some airlines require self funded endorsements is because they can still get away with it!

As for any of these operators learning anything from history, well I've yet to see it. A bunch of reactionary catch-up merchants the lot of them.

[bushy]

ACMS
While there are plenty of wannabies who are prepared to do it for low wages, they will get low wages. Just like GA.
I earned $43,000 flying a kingair fifteen years ago.
I could never understand why pilots, who I thought were intelligent people would spend so much time and money getting trained for jobs that just were not there. It's been happening for thirty years. It's still happening.
In this supposed pilot shortage, it appears that only about one in a hundred are considered suitable for airlines. Some pilots do not even get a reply to their application, and of the ones that do, three quarters are rejected before trainig starts.
The rejected ones, and those who do not get a reply often go on to have distinguished careers elsewhere. (sometimes with overseas airlines)
Airlines do not like spending money on training, and they will steal trained pilots from elsewhere if they can. It has always been so. It did not start yesterday.
A CPL is not necessarily a free ticket to a golden skygod job. People who want an airline job are taking a big risk if they spend money on training without some sort of agreement with an airline.
But still they come. And they work for low wages, and complain.
Just like GA was. What's new??

[Capt Wally]

At around $70K as a capt on a prop plane in REX (could be wrong there but it aint much am sure) there is the EXACT problem! MONEY, and with the lack of that folding stuff loyality went out the window moons ago. You beat a loyal dog long enough & even he'll bite the hand that feeds him!:bored:

The guys that passed thru Kendells years ago with pride must be crying now to see REX dieing.
We where all stunned when Ansett went under, will we feel the same when REX goes under? Only for the employees left who are gallantly bringing home the bacon!:bored:


CW

[captainstoobing]

It strikes me as bizarre as someone new to this industry that upon reading article after article in both NSW and interstate newspapers re Rex and the pilot shortage that only one mentioned Ts and Cs.
It was not a quote from AFAP or a rep!!!
Where are they:confused:

Coming from an industry where you got value for your union fees and that the union acted in the best interests of its members, especially publicly, the AFAP is a joke!!!! Are they toothless???:ugh:

There appears no campaign from the AFAP on behalf of their constituents to 'set the record straight' to the public and expose these gastly Ts and Cs. These people (pilots) are responsible for the safety of 34 people. A huge responsibility. Trainee nurses are paid more!!:*
Surely the gloves must come off and media are approached to embarrass the management into action. The time is ripe, pilots have more bargaining power right now than they have in a long time. Strike action or threatened industrial action would kill the company - they (the company) know it, but it seems they also know that the union is a toothless tiger, nothing more.:D

Its coming time to negotiate the new EBA for REX. I hope for all concerned that there are serious discussions regarding decent wages for all and retention bonuses for their senior pilots (those who are left). Time for the AFAP to show some kohoonas!!!!

[indamiddle]

why pay for the endorsement/type training/years of GA when you can earn more in sydney than a rex f/o when you can get a job with qf as cabin crew in qcca longhaul. they are currently employing

[ABX]

From page 7 of today's Border Mail:

NO FLIGHTS ON SUNDAY
BRAD WORRALL
8/05/2008 10:00:00 AM
REX’S Sunday night flights to and from Melbourne have been axed as the airline struggles to keep its pilots from being poached by the major carriers.

Regional Express says it has lost about half its pilots since July.

Most have moved to discount airlines now operating between capital cities.

The 5.50pm Albury to Melbourne and the 7.15pm return flight were among 24 services cancelled by Rex this week.

The decision will take effect from Sunday, May 24.

Warrick Lodge, the airline’s network strategy and sales general manager, said against all expectations the major carriers had continued their recruitment drive.

“In April, Rex experienced a 5 per cent attrition in our pilot ranks, with the attrition rate in this financial year tracking above 50 per cent,” he said.

“It means our flight schedules remain vulnerable to last-minute sickness of the flight crew.

“We believe the responsible course of action is to reduce the flight schedule, which will provide us with more reserve pilots and in turn will translate into a reduction of last-minute flight cancellations.”

Mr Lodge said the services cancelled were lower demand weekend flights.

Rex said the Albury-Melbourne flight was, on average, less than half full.

Other routes affected include Adelaide to Mount Gambier, Melbourne to Mount Gambier, Melbourne to Mildura and Sydney to Griffith.

A pilot academy now wholly owned by the airline might result in the services being reinstated later this year.

“The second batch of 23 cadets commenced their training in early last month, bringing the total cadets to 39,” Rex chief pilot and general manager of flight operations Chris Hine said.

“With the first batch now well into the flying stage of the training, everything is on track for this first batch to graduate later in the year and commence their conversion training onto Rex’s Saab 340 aircraft.

“Twenty new cadets will be enrolled every three months.

“Once our cadets start to enter into service late this year, we believe that we will be in a much better position to be in control of our pilot strength and hopefully we could envisage a gradual resumption of our network expansion.”
Rex is Australia’s largest independent regional airline, operating a fleet of 38 Saab 340 aircraft on more than 1200 flights a week.

Makes me sad to see this airline in difficulties, if only we could see a paradigm shift in management thinking.

ABX

[Trevor the lover]

So what is your solution ABX?
Pay??? How much pay increase will be required to stop young guys moving onto jets. I suggest a hell of a lot more than Rex can afford. Even if Rex matched the likes of Tiger and Rex, say $180k-ish for a skipper, many will still want to move to the jets. But that is not even a remore reality - they just cannot afford it. So what is the solution??

[Wizofoz]

said against all expectations the major carriers had continued their recruitment drive.

...Except the expectations of the ENTIRE AIRLINE INDUSTRY APART FROM REX MANAGEMENT!!!

“The second batch of 23 cadets commenced their training in early last month, bringing the total cadets to 39,”

So, these Cadets will graduate qualified for command aqnd able to take on training duties???

....Didn't think so:ugh:

[Under Dog]

Capt Wally
Come on mate I can be beatin the crap outa my Dog (for doin somethin wrong)and he still manages a huge smile.

Regards The Dog

[ferris]

Trev, call me crazy, but there is something wrong with a management that can only think one way. If the only way they can look at the problem is to try and introduce more pilots at the same (low) pay, then I'd hardly call that nimble, innovative management.
This is straight off the cuff, but how about
- charging more for the tickets? If $99 fares aren't viable (because you cant pay enough to retain employees), then charge more. Your business model isnt viable otherwise. If the market wont bear a higher price, then you either create the market that will, or leave the market. How, you say?
-run ads that point out it costs $100 or more to drive return mel abx, so why not pay a bit extra and fly? marketing, marketing, marketing.
-improve the product


-investigate whether people will work for say, $120k and be based in the country rather than the city. If not, find out what it will take and work on that. eg if the magic number is 150k, how much extra will tickets cost, and work on how you can sell tickets for that price, rather than the smaller (unviable) amount that is currently being charged. It's not always about money. You might find something that people want (even jaded jet jockeys from the sandpit), that isn't monetary. Find out (2 months vacation/whatever).

gotta be lots of things to try. What have they?

[Capt Wally]

Could be that REX training up all these new pilots are simply supplying pilots for other operators when the time comes at REX's expense!

I don't believe there is a quick single solution to our current crisis, it just has to run it's course like a bad cold & we shall ALL pay for it one way or another!:bored:


CW

[Pretzal]

Might I suggest that you should have done the sums before you attend the interview and 'spent' $1200 of your own cash. It doesn't seem to me to be a great investment on trying out for a job that you dont intend to take. Luckily the baby bonus will help out. Good luck with bubs...

[Timber]

Let's do the numbers.....

REX needs to have 250 pilots, 140 of which are Captains and 110 F/O's.

Assume the Captains all get a raise of $20,000 (per annum); that will cost $3,052,000 per year including 9% super.

Assume F/O's all get a raise of $12,000; the cost for that is $1,438,800 including the 9% super.

Total extra costs for this improvement in conditions: $4,490,800

With REX profits around $20 million clearly there is room for this......

With REX transporting around 1,500,000 passengers per annum, the cost per passenger would be almost exactly $3.00 (or a ticket price increase of just over 2%). Haven't even taken the reduction in training effort into account.

You'd think it would be worth it, wouldn't you.....?

[ABX]

Timber,

Perfectly good common sense there mate!:ok:

So naturally it will be ignored by the 'managers' at REX.:yuk:

[HF3000]

Timber:

Exactly!

You are the first poster to point this out and this reality makes a complete mockery of the management's argument that they can't afford to fix the problem the easy way.

Sure, some pilots will always leave for a jet job, but plenty will stay longer if the T's and C's are reasonable. And that is the problem - too many are leaving too quickly because they are being treated like crap. Treat them well, it doesn't actually cost much, and the problem will be solved.

Although, I would suggest something more like $35K pay rise for $5/ticket would be on the mark.

It won't cost them loss of market share, the competition would rapidly match the fare rise - but someone has to bite the bullet first.

[captainstoobing]

BRAVO!!! Land of 4X!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


PS How accurate is your source on the Sept cadets leaving?? Just curious?:)

[Roller Merlin]

With valuable experienced pilots leaving due to ridiculously low salaries in comparison to social norms, clearly the management strategy being taken is:

One:
Protect the profit line by canceling lossy routes and blame outwards via the media...as being all the fault of other airlines "taking our people".

Two:
Seek supplemental incomes by keeping the media supplied with pilot "shortage" messages, causing popular opinion to pressure governments to subsidize these and other routes.

Three:
Seek sources of cheaper labor to keep wages down. Keep blaming a shortage of pilots despite huge numbers of ready applicants. Keep wages down at all costs. Lower levels of entrant experience.

Four:
Keep on message - Keep "pilot shortage" it in the media. Avoid mentioning "low pay" and experience levels.

This is nonsense. No other profession requires you to train yourself at great expense, then risk re qualifying for your job every few months, pass annual license medical tests, pay for your own work manuals, ID cards AND be responsible daily for the lives and well-being of passengers in very adverse and time critical airborne circumstances where a nasty slip could result in one of this country's greatest disasters.... for less $$ than hauling trash. Millions are spent on systems to support, promote, investigate and manage these operations, yet the guys with the ultimate responsibility are still being expected to plod on.

[Rawrawhammer]

Thank you Roller Merlin.You've detailed EXACTLY that what is happening in the industry right now.We as Pilots should be fighting for our rights but I continuously see articles on the "Pilot shortage" and now expats coming over to work when there's plenty of suitably qualified drivers right here.The fact that I know of 2 people who have way surpassed the minimums for all the gigs in the country aren't even getting a call to the selection is what frustrates me the most.They know of more people who know of more people who are the same situation but yet the airlines are holding road shows in South Africa to recruit foreigners.I'm still to see a response to this or a article release from our side etc.We are doing nothing against it yet it is so obvious.I'm not going to deny that there's is a better Job to Pilot ratio then a few years ago but airlines are making sure that they recruit outside of the nation so that when there is a bit of a surplus, they can pick from a healthy pond back home.That way they are making sure that the risk of having no suitable candidates is eliminated and salaries are kept down, all whilst here's cadetships starting up and going left, right and centre.

WHAT A JOKE!
but hey we're all aware of it, reading pprune, complaining and NOT doing anything about it.
If I was in any position to make a difference or help then trust me, I would!

regards
cuttingthatrawrawhammer

[Flying Meat Cleaver]

Maybe we should have a small vote given landof's new salary figures!

Who would stay or would have given the figures in landof's post? (exclude all the management bull****, just on the figures alone)

Anyone?

FMC.

[KRUSTY 34]

landof4x's numbers are spot on.

12 months ago an annual retention of 18K for F/O's and 30K for Captains was put to the REX CP. Cost $7.25 a ticket. And that was only if every pilot stayed to collect! As some pilots would have left anyway, REX could either adjust the levy downwards or if left the same, they would have actually made money! Rex would not however have lost their critical Check and training and senior Captains, all for $7.25 a ticket!!

I'm afraid now it has become much more difficult. If you take landof4x's $75K for F/O's & $125K for Capts, restructure it to $60K base + 15K annual retention for F/O's and $100K base and 25K annual retention for Capts, then REX's crewing problems would see a definite reverse. The situation is now that serious, it would take something along those lines to save the company.

And before anyone cries it is too high, just keep your eye on what QFLink will be offering in the very near future. DEC's are definitely on the way, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out where they are going to come from!

[Muff Hunter]

Cadets flying in the saabs later on this year!!!!!!.....

Are these guys for real, from what i hear (stand to be corrected) the cadets don't even have a GFPT yet.

It will be at least this time next year before they will even commence the Rex ground school, which takes around 10 weeks, probably more with no time guys/gals learning the ropes and will they have any one to train them? I'm sure AT will be sick of training by himself by then!!

AFAP, where are you, stop these pricks from feeding the media **** and stand up for pilots for once...THATS WHAT WE PAY YOUR FOR!!!!!!

As for the cancelled services, I believe the E-Jet is kicking there asses, with more to come REX is an even faster sinking ship....

[ACMS]

I've been bitching in this forum about 457's for weeks and all I got was banned. You guys and girls could actually do something about this.

time to UNITE.

[Timber]

Can't really see any airline management in Australia seriously considering the numbers you put up. The difference is just too big vs the current situation. It will be seen as over-asking and the usual reaction then is: "We'll find some other way to solve these problems, with more reasonable pilots..."

One of the difficulties is that the Saab 340 is a relatively small aircraft that produces only a limited amount of seat/kms per block-hour. The Q400 produces almost 3 times as many seat/kms and the E-Jet around 4.5 times as many! A B737-800 or A320 produces 10 times the seat/kms per hour of a Saab 340 if you would wish to compare with those.

It will just have to run its course it seems.... good luck to all.

Nevertheless there is certainly no case for 457 visas are the required pilots are without doubt available in Australia!

[jakethemuss]

I wouldn't hold your breath for the AFAP to do anything.

They are too busy working with management to reduce pilot conditions in this country in an attempt to build membership.

VB
JQ
EAA
SAA etc. etc.

The AFAP started the rot with VB. They have alot to answer for.:D

[KRUSTY 34]

Quote:

"We'll find some other way to solve these problems, with more reasonable pilots..."

It seems as though you are just playing Devil's advocate Timber, but believe me there is no other way to solve this problem. And what reasonable pilots are we talking about? Cadets! Even if they continue to swallow the bullsh!t, it will be at least 5 years from check to line before any of them reach the minimum qualification for command. If the attrition continues the airline will be out of business within 2! REX have lost 60% of their pilot group in the last year. The latest media release admits 50% so far this year, and I can tell you now it will go higher. The major domestic airlines are about one third through their recruiting needs. Pretty simple math I would say! REX will continue to lose 2/3 of their pilots for at least the next 2-3 years unless REX actively attempt to retain them.

And don't tell me they can't afford it. They have the gall to slug the travelling public for almost their entire fuel bill by way of a levy ($33 per ticket per sector! Nearly $45mil per year). The cost for retaining pilots they will no longer be able to replace, now approx $10 per ticket!

Let me see? $10 dollars per ticket, or the collapse of the service, mmmm..

[Timber]

It is true that the output of the flying school will do nothing for the filling of the captains seats for the next 4-5 years. But it will solve the problems of filling the F/O seats at modest pay for years to come..!

You say that, for $10 per ticket, the problems are solved. That would be an additional $15 million per year!!! I don't doubt the willingness of management to charge it to the clients if they could......, but they certainly won't give it to the cockpit crews just like that!!

They (management) could be willing to pay the (30?) key C&T captains an additional $60,000 per year. That expense is only $1.8 million...! Classical devide and conquer tactics. For the other command seats there is the rest of Australia to do a bit of poaching themselves. You'd be surprised what quality would suddenly come out of the woodworks if the pay is OK. It would be relatively easy to keep the airline flying...! Remember Ansett, who lost ALL their pilots overnight? Didn't take them long to get going again....

The key is the 457 visas. There would be thousands of pilots in low wages countries who would love to come to live and fly in Australia for almost any pay! After an initial difficult period the costs of pilots could actually come out lower! It would also reduce inflation as well by keeping the tickets cheaper.

So, I'm not the devils advocate.., just a lot less optimistic than you about the motives that drive managements in general.

[KRUSTY 34]

Timber.

Did you actually bother to read my post.

Your assesment of the way REX management should or would handle this crisis is as irelevent as the Cadet program itself. Unless the attrition of experienced pilots is addressed now, REX will probably not be around by the time the first of them (Cadets) graduate.

[Timber]

It will become another soft take-over target for Heavylift maybe???

[SIUYA]

Timber...

It [REX] will become another soft take-over target for Heavylift maybe???

What makes you think that Heavilift would bother? :confused:

Rex commenced trading on the ASX on 9 November 2005. However, unless Rex management take URGENT action and actually start to MANAGE the problem of aircrew 'attrition', then it's looking increasingly likely that REX will finish trading before the end of this year! :ooh:

[KRUSTY 34]

Spoke to a very senior REX Check and Trainer (20 years service) the other day. The Check and Training staff recently petitioned senior management for an increase in T&C's in an effort to stop the high level of attrition amongst their ranks. After much to-ing and fro-ing the company decided that it might be prepared to offer them 5% (before tax of course) "as recognition of their past service, and compensation for additional services they may be required to provide."

It's been some time since I've seen a man feel so betrayed and disgusted! The applications that he had on hold have now been activated, and according to him, the remaining Check and trainers are also now actively looking elsewhere.

Well done REX!

[dash 27]

All large flag carriers have em. And here at home you have qantas and the old MBA cadet program. Ansett had em too. The problem we face is not that cadets can't fly or shouldn't fly. Look at the experience left in GA. I wish I was exposed to the starting opportunities of now when I was washing airplanes at high school, and flying an hour when I earned financially doing something else for about 10 hours of wages. I took ages to save up and I reckon I spent probably $20000 over my career on training to date, and I am at ATPL level. Not to mention the shonkey operators, love em or hate em, you learn what not to do. Sink or swim. You just learn to survive, in the airplane and financially. Todays pilot doesn't get that, charactor building. :} When an airline job was so far away, and you had to get that first job, mostly for free, in some sh#t hole, then you got onto a twin, still in some sh#t hole, then just maybe someone you know might recommend you to a small regional. Remember Oxley Airlines outa Port MacQuarie. Bless their hearts. Look what it is now.

Today, anyone gets a look in at terms and conditions, as crappy as they are post 89, that generations of pilots have battled for. We have ourselves to blame, partially, but the last government stitched up the pinacle of sh#tness with "You must sign this to be employed" AWA's with spineless unfairness tests.

Cadets, most of em, don't know that they are supporting the pay your way aviation career. They believe is a fast track to a good job and to avoid the harder GA work. Setting the standard for us who have earned the right over the years to enjoy the T's and C's of our forefathers. Its tough times for all operators with fuel prices, but they are creating their own problems with pilot shortages, and blaming everyone but them selves. T's and C's / T's and C's. :ugh:

Having said that.

I trained cadets of the new age MBA scheme, and they do come out good pilots. Its like a blank canvas, and they are of a standard where should be a great training ground for better things. But short of getting banned from this forum in a business close to its owners heart, these days its just not necessary to do a self funded cadet program. Airlines short of employing expats, will take low to no timers. Making for most airlines, a single pilot environment whilst training, if things were to go wrong, in airplanes and check lists that require 2 pilots exist. Long days with trainees that a long time ago, would be there to assist the captain, nowadays are just a strain, until ready to fulfill their title, because its nearly an ab-initio environment because they don't have the experience to call upon. The day seems long rare where a trainee would come from a decent background of diversity, and humble beginnings, and offer the environment some experience. Experience comes not of doing the same thing, the same destination,with the same crew, same same same, for 10000 hours. It comes from life outside the box. When you fly a 182 in the bush, a baron into monsoonal community, a metro carrying maximum permitted defects on an RNAV approach to circle at minimas that you had to juggle payloads on 7 sectors with fuel stops, with one shot at a water meth take off, only to break down somewhere, and extend your duty through midnight with an exhausted FO. And heaven forbid getting laid off with wife and kids and mortgage's in toe. I can't imagine why pilots leave crap money when they can as they get experience and chase better paying jobs. Throw into that the price of living, petrol, and interest rates.

We can bitch all day, but the truth is that this "IS" the future, a plan for a long term future, and is no way a fix for the hear and now. For there will be no future for companies who don't invest in their own future, beyond us hear and now-ers. All we can hope for as divided pilots, married and stable or not, is that external elements force new pilots not to bother, and for the squeeze on the purse strings of the parked operators, outweighs the price of parking them by paying just a little more than the 3rd world mentality wages, vs the loss of static displays burning up ramp charges. :}

[Capt Wally]

oh to see my work colleges slowly withering away.:bored:

Rex & all the others are like wilting flowers, their dieing 'cause the 'earth' they live in is now rotten with greed!:bored:
Can I offer an answer? No & neither can anyone else in here, but.....

Why do we fly? For one simple reason, WE LOVE IT! There wouldn't be another industry out there I reckon where they would put up with the anguish, the such low morale, the cost of just getting there & to have to then fight for every inch just to stay above the bread line, why do we do it? WE LOVE IT.
Love is the only thing that keeps this insane sprial dive world of ours we live in tollerable.
ALL the contributors here have one thing in common, their genuinely concerned what's going on around us, good or bad. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all simply down tools, take one step back & just say, enough is enough, as much as I love flying it's killing me (& my family) to see my fellow aviators tearing each others throats apart here.
Then again we are meant to be educated & smarter than the dumb animals that also walk the earth along side us, but are we?
Deep I know & somewhat off track I know but it hurts to see my colleges paying so much for something that feels so good to do, FLY:)
No need to tear this post apart, there's many others here in PPRUNE that contribute to that:bored:

CW


CW

[SIUYA]

dash 27 says it all with:

there will be no future for companies who don't invest in their own future

Put another way..................companies who DON'T, WON'T, CAN'T, or REFUSE TO invest in their own future WILL NOT/CANNOT survive...................PERIOD!

Take note REX management. :ugh:

[busdriver007]

I have said it before and I will say it again, there is no skills shortage in this country but the "short-sighted grab for cash mentality of the corporate elite".
Professor Roy Green, Macquarie Graduate School of Management(2007).

[ACMS]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

"there is no shortage of qualified Pilot's, just a shortage of qualified Pilot's willing to work for peanuts"

[ABX]

Saturday's Border Mail reports that REX have increased the fuel surcharge from $33 to $36 per sector.:yuk:

[KRUSTY 34]

That's approx $4Mil extra a year from that rise alone. As it was, the fuel surcharge virtually covered REX's total yearly fuel bill! Now they are in the dark territory of trying to maintain profits by whatever means possible, fair or foul. As REX's business shrinks (and remember the cheif of staff has publicly commented that this will be the action taken as opposed to retention), it will be much more difficult to hide behind such immoral behaviour. Also something they hadn't reckoned on was the "purchase" of the Cadet program. No longer in the hands of the lowest bidders, the sales pitch given to the board must now be looking a little thin.

As I've said in a previous post, It'll be interesting to see what creative scenerios the management (and I use that term loosely) of REX come up with, as the business, and services grow smaller as the year wears on?

[ABX]

From page 29 of the Saturday May 10 edition of the Border Mail:
REX RAISES FUEL LEVY $3
RECORD high oil prices have forced regional airline Regional Express Holdings to lift its fuel surcharge by $3 a sector.
Rex’s fuel surcharge will rise from $33 to $36 a sector from Tuesday.
“Oil prices have risen by another ten percent since the last time we raised the fuel levy and are now at historic highs above $US120 a barrel,” Rex general manager, network strategy and sales, Warrick Lodge said.
“In addition, the refining margins have also increased, presenting a double blow for airline fuel.”
Rex said it understood the impact on regional Australia, but that the average ticket price was still lower than it was five years ago.
Rex shares closed 0.5c lower at $1.045.

[KRUSTY 34]

Ref previous post #79.

Are we missing something here,

Mods?

[tenfouroldmate]

lift its fuel surcharge by $3 a sector.

Obviously just another problem Rex has to deal with. $3 is neither here nor there.

No sign of the "Pay pilots properly" surcharge being imposed as yet.:ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

tenfouroldmate,

To the average punter $3 really is neither here nor there. To REX it equals approx $4million per annum! $10 per punter is also niether here nor there these days, but if correctly applied it would spell the difference between a viable long term air service largely free from crewing issues and disruptions, to most probably no service at all!

So, your point is well made my friend.

[SIUYA]

KRUSTY34

$10 per punter is also niether here nor there these days, but if correctly applied it would spell the difference between a viable long term air service largely free from crewing issues and disruptions, to most probably no service at all!

True, K34, but to try to put that in place now would be an admission by REX management that they've screwed-up very badly indeed with the way they seem to have totally mismanaged their HR strategies to date to ensure flight crew retention. :{

[Lodown]

I suspect it’s more along the lines of “who blinks first”. In an ingrained culture of cost cutting amongst a crowd of cost cutters, the person who first makes the suggestion that pilots be paid more will be shown the door. To surmise they (the managers) know they have done something wrong is giving them way too much credit. They know they are doing everything right. Many pilots have tried to explain the situation. It doesn’t work. Likewise, to suggest the managers don’t know what is going on is naive. To argue otherwise is the equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall.

The best action to take for the Rex pilots with experience is to move on. When the managers see the house of cards falling down around them, maybe things will change…but, don’t bank on it. Get out and don’t look back.

[boardpig]

I think I've realised from a previous post that the reason this situation exists is because "we love flying".
In that case, why don't we train for and aquire careers in another professions (IT, Financial, Law etc,) then we can afford to operate and fly our own aircraft, fly whenever we want, be home for holidays etc, earn a decent crust, decent standard of life and enjoy respect and value for your work?
This way you satisfy your love of flying and REX and Q are completely removed from the equation!!!..

(yes I know....:ugh: .... but it might actually be the way it's headed.)

[mention1]

My wife was in the cabin of an aircraft taxiing out of Sydney the other day and looked out the window to see the 3 crew of a Saab RUNNING across the apron in the pouring rain.

They were running from the crew room to the 90 bays, a not-so-short walk. The crew and their overnight bags were saturated. Probably on a min rest overnight with no crew meals.

Its reasons like this that I left. Not treated like a professional.:(

[ABX]

K34,
Ref previous post #79.
Are we missing something here,
Mods?
I missed it too Krusty. What is wrong with post #79? And why did you write this in post #78?

As for the crew running across the ramp in the rain, that is less than ideal any way that you look at it.

ABX:ok:

[Muff Hunter]

running in the rain...common occurance at rex..bet there was no rain coats in the a/c either!!!

the company is a joke, run by muppets who i believe are soon to be out of work...

also i hear a certain base manager in mel is looking at leaving in the very near future!!..(another trainer gone)

[SIUYA]

Muff Hunter and Krusty34.............

Finn47's Post #13 from on the thread Safety fears as staff shortage hits aviation at Rumours & News sums-up the problem rather well, as follows:

Here´s a good example of what can happen when a regional airline doesn´t pay it´s pilots good enough wages and therefore must employ inexperienced people: a serious incident report by the Finnish AAIB. The captain had 50 hours (!) and the copilot some 80 hours on ATRs (and a whopping total of 365 flight hrs!). They tried to shoot an NDB approach at Seinajoki airport Jan 2007 but forgot to change the altimeter setting, which meant that the plane was flying 950 ft too low. This resulted in 3 EGPWS warnings and go-arounds, one stick pusher warning, one excessive bank angle warning and one configuration warning - and finally, a diversion. The co-pilot had actually NEVER flown an NDB approach at Seinajoki before. Lucky to be alive, poor bastards...

Read all about it, in English here:

http://www.onnettomuustutkinta.fi/43213.htm

Let's all hope that it doesn't get to that stage at REX. :ooh:

[desmotronic]

REX is Australia’s largest independent regional airline, established in 2002 from the merger of Hazelton and Kendell. REX is the sole provider in the majority of its routes. Airlines are capital intensive and traditionally offered poor returns for investors. Rex effectively holds monopoly position in 60% of its routes, many too small to be profitably serviced by Qantas, Virgin Blue or Jetstar. The dividend payout-ratio is around 30-40%, at the high end given considerable capital requirements. Freefloat is small and share turnover low. Pilot shortages are a great concern.

Event22-Apr-2008
Pilot numbers continue to improve and are now at 94% of ideal levels. Flight cancellations have reduced. Persistent high oil prices have forced REX to increase it fuel surcharge to $33 from $27. Passenger numbers have remained strong. The pilot academy has suffered some setbacks, with delays to flight training postponing graduation by a month or more. Instructor shortages may cause more delays. Negotiations on a new EBA are underway. Pilot wage increases will impact FY09 earnings.
Business Impact: Good load factors and lower maintenance costs indicate a stronger second half result. Cadet progress is slow and justifies our cautious stance. REX believes it will come close to full year earnings guidance but with risks to the downside we maintain more conservative forecasts.


Event Analysis
REX continues to improve pilot numbers with a net gain of nine pilots since December 31, 2007. Pilot numbers are now at about 94% of ideal levels, up 11% from the low-point in September 2007. Attrition is still high but for now is more than matched by recruitment. Flight cancellations have reduced with stabilising pilot numbers. Cancellations were only 0.2% in March, compared to 1.7% in February and over 2% in October last year. Volatility is to be expected and cancellations for April are tracking higher. REX continues to rate well for cancellations compared to other airlines. Figures for February show REX ahead of Virgin Blue (VBA) at 2.9%, QantasLink at 2.4%, Jetstar at 2.1% and Qantas at 1.8%. High oil prices forced REX to increase its fuel surcharge from $27 to $33 over the past couple of months, passing most of the cost increases through to passengers. At this stage passenger numbers remain strong. Costs for competing carriers and other forms of transport are also affected. REX does not have fuel hedges and is fully exposed to rising prices, but turbo-prop aircraft are more fuel efficient than jets. Fuel accounts for around 19% of REX’s operating expenses compared to more than 32% for VBA. The price of fuel and falling yields were recently identified by VBA as major concerns, and we expect its expansion to slow. VBA has been a substantial recruiter of REX pilots. The pilot academy has suffered some setbacks. The first intake of cadets finished ground school but were unable to begin flight training due to approval delays. These have now been granted and cadets are flying. A shortage of flying instructors may cause more delays. REX remains hopeful that some cadets will graduate in August, as per the previous schedule, but it is likely most will not graduate until September or later. The second intake of cadets has begun. All up there are 39. A third intake begins following graduation of the first. Delays to flight training are a concern as this is a key solution to the pilot shortage. Mangalore Airport has pulled out of the joint venture pilot academy, implying it is unsatisfied with performance. The academy will continue to be based at Mangalore but REX will take full ownership and control. Negotiations with pilots on a new Enterprise Bargaining Agreement are underway. A decision is expected on June 30 and will impact FY09 earnings. Wages will rise but REX is not in a position to match larger airlines. The result is unlikely to satisfy pilot demands and as such attrition will remain high. REX is in a tough position and would rather carry on with low wages and high attrition than increase wages without certainty attrition will slow. In other news, REX and subsidiary Air Link retained 15 expired Air Transport Licenses for regional NSW. The licenses confer monopoly rights on certain routes and run for five years from March 2008. Interestingly, none of the licenses were contested, indicating competing airlines are not willing or able to service these small regional routes. The share price should be supported by the recently introduced buy-back for up to 12m shares, approximately 10% of total equity or 20% of free float. Share purchases by Executive Chairman Lim Kim Hai also signal the shares are undervalued. These are good signs but we remain wary of the considerable risks facing this company. Load factors have been good for the last couple of months and REX believes it will come close to hitting full year earnings guidance. Engineering and maintenance costs have improved from abnormally high levels in 1H08. In an environment of high fuel costs and pilot shortages, risks are to the downside. We leave our forecasts unchanged for now. Forecast FY08 NPAT is 7% below guidance at $22.0m. FY09 NPAT is $20.7m. Our valuation remains $1.40. Hold.

............

[Transition Layer]

Has anyone considered that as the airline continues to struggle (all in view of the public eye) that there will be even LESS people applying for jobs (either direct entry or cadet) with REX, further hurting their pilot recruitment.

If you had the choice, and a lot of guys do these days, then surely REX would be down the bottom. Soon you'll have a situation where not only are people leaving the company, but no-one is applying to join!

TL

[Ultralights]

REX! hows this for a deal, i have 350++ hrs recreational flying, how about you train me from ab initio, all ill sign on for 5 yrs.! i am willing to pay my own accommodation and food, hows that sound?

oh, and a written guarantee that my wage will be substantially increased, min $70 as FO, and $120K plus when i get command! come to think of it, if you can do that, ill sign for 10 yrs! based in Syd of course!

do we have a deal?

[Erin Brockovich]

Ultralights………no.
REX is in a tough position and would rather carry on with low wages and high attrition than increase wages
Sorry,

Love Rex XXX

[tenfouroldmate]

Interestingly, none of the licenses were contested,....

Thats rubbish. From whom I would believe is an extremely reliable source, quite a large %age were contested but fortunately for REX not followed up on. Maybe because these routes were less profitable.

Who can you trust?!

10-4 out

[Under Dog]

Some relos of mine booked a flight out of Mt Gambier to Melb with REX on Saturday 24 th of this month, they just recieved a phone call telling them that their flight was cancelled and would have to travel the day before.
The reason they were given was they had no pilots to do the flight,this they could cope with but what really peed them off was they were charged another $60 each to change their connection out of Melb.I'm sure they wouldn't mind paying a $7 pilot surcharge.

P.s REX you have some serious Pilot retenion issues to sort out,do it now while you still have a business.

Regards The Dog

[KRUSTY 34]

Quote:

"Maybe because these routes were less profitable."

Or maybe, as much as an annoyance it may be, the contenders realise that you do in fact need pilots to fly the aircraft.

[Capt Wally]

Is there really a pilot shortage?
Anyone care to predict how long REX has got before it folds due to pilots shortages?

Just for the record I applied to all majors here in Oz & even both the regionals (REX especially seeing as I can't spell, QF would rather spelling geeks than pilots) not too long ago actually (& I am not the only one that did like wise in my circle of slightly older pilots) & with close to 30 yrs for me in the flying game not one here in OZ ever got back to me.
It doesn't really bother me now & that's a fact 'cause I rarely mention it here or even in convo with friends these days but I still have a somewhat mystical look upon my face when I read the airlines, the numerous news clippings all saying that it's getting almost to desperate levels for pilots!:bored:
Nah there's no shortage, it's a Myth.


CW

[SIUYA]

CW.........

Anyone care to predict how long REX has got before it folds due to pilots shortages?

Good question...........incredibly well put..........f*cked if I know!

But I'm still sticking with my prediction per post #68 that unless REX management pulls a very BIG rabbit out of the hat very soon to fix the very serious pilot retention 'problem' REX is currently facing, then it'll be curtains for REX before the end of '08. :ooh:

So unless you believe that there are fairies at the bottom of your garden like the commentators that desmotronic's quoted obviously do CW, then don't even think of jumping ship to REX, because you may just find yourself up to your ar5e in alligators very quickly while you're trying to drain the swamp! :=

[Timber]

REX could be actively engaged in manipulating the flight frequencies on certain city pairs. Cancelling flights, but still moving the same number of passengers.

By blaming the "pilot shortage", they possibly increase the load factors on some routes (namely the underperforming ones..). By cutting out flights they save variable costs, but still get roughly the same income.., because the passengers on these cancelled flights are moved to earlier / later connections.

The passengers are relatively happy because they still get to go where they want to go to, albeit at a different time. And just as they accept the "ever rising fuel surcharges" as inevitable, they tend to accept the "pilot shortage" as a uncontrollable reality. But it is in fact just spin...

This would seem to be rather smart yield management, and it is therefore unlikely that the management can be characterised as "stupid", but rather as "utterly ruthless".

One wonders where the optimum is would be for REX.....; a 1000 sectors a week? 900 perhaps???

Nevertheless, uncontrolled rapid outflow of experienced captains (and trainers) is worrying for the stability of the company. What would be the plan there ... ?

[tenfouroldmate]

then don't even think of jumping ship to REX

At this stage, for those already on board, you'd nearly be inclined to abondon ship and start swimming. There's plenty of other vessels to pick up - you wouldn't have to swim for long.

Agreed. It is a great question - how long will she last? Or will the gaping hole (that being denial) of this sinking ship be plugged at the last hour??:confused:

[wethereyet]

The DENIAL will continue while management all wander around with their ugly heads up each others bums and say:

"REX is in a tough position and would rather carry on with low wages and high attrition than increase wages without certainty attrition will slow"

Please CH, JD etc... you are reasonably clever people that can add up???? Pull your heads out and wash your faces :oh:

The cadet program, with all the effort will prove that FO's can be provided to the company at $42K (plus costs of training previously not endured, all for the sake of the 42K FO) - after all the FO position is ultimately a the final part of your "apprenticeship" as a pilot wishing for a career with the company.

Those at the head of our company and our union please tell me how you can continue to undervalue a captain at just over $70K - the writings on the wall. For the sake of the companies future come to the realisation that many leaving our company do not want to - many would dearly like to continue a career with REX, myself included. But a base of 90K will be necessary for most of us to justify our projected future financial position.

FO's can be kept cheap, so long as they know if they choose a career then in the long run they will be justified in staying. Ultimately these will be young players and a large proportion of them will always want a turbine without a gearbox :sad: throwing any extra money at them will not ultimately make any difference for the company. Not providing a long term career will.

Oh, but CH will proudly state that there is not hard data to justify these increases and give certainty := the hard data is already in front of you :8, the existing methods of keeping wages low do provide certainty... certaintly that nobody will take a career with REX seriously.

Lawrie, I would really hope that you are reading these posts. It would be nice to hear what you have to say. For I have paid my fees for some time and supported my union. And now we have silence in the moments before our EBA is due for renewal?

[Captahab]

Quote Timber

[Quote]"REX could be actively engaged in manipulating the flight frequencies on certain city pairs. Cancelling flights, but still moving the same number of passengers.

By blaming the "pilot shortage", they possibly increase the load factors on some routes (namely the underperforming ones..). By cutting out flights they save variable costs, but still get roughly the same income.., because the passengers on these cancelled flights are moved to earlier / later connections."[Quote]

BINGO !!!!!!!!

[KRUSTY 34]

I must admit Timber, your defence of REX management is somewhat slicker than your predecessors.

Quote:

"One wonders where the optimum is would be for REX.....; a 1000 sectors a week? 900 perhaps???"

Straight out of the REX manual for dealing with this crisis. Shrink the business during a period of unprecedented growth, and then have the gall to put a positive spin on it.

Quote:

"The passengers are relatively happy because they still get to go where they want to go to, albeit at a different time."

Try selling that to the young mother holding a baby, who's flight has been cancelled and is unable to get home. She is told by distressed dispatch staff that even though she has little money, no contacts in Sydney, and nowhere to stay, she must come back tommorrow or the day after to be rebooked! And then these same dedicated staff have to go home and try to sleep after what they have been forced to do. How well do you sleep at night Timber?

And finally.

Quote:

"This would seem to be rather smart yield management, and it is therefore unlikely that the management can be characterised as "stupid", but rather as "utterly ruthless".

"utterly ruthless", I couldn't agree more. But your assertion that this is somehow a positive trait in this mess, is endorseing their treatment of the pilot group and travelling public alike. Now that's "stupid"

We're all entitled to our opinion Timber. But IMHO you are either a mangement stooge, or you have absolutely no idea of the real damage being done to REX.

[goatwhacker]

REX could be actively engaged in manipulating the flight frequencies on certain city pairs. Cancelling flights, but still moving the same number of passengers.

I can assure you this has little to do with what flights are cancelled. It's merely a 'happy' side effect that by cancelling flights the remaining ones have higher load factors.

Management have told people they would prefer no cancellations at all.

[tenfouroldmate]

Management have told people they would prefer no cancellations at all.

They would prefer no cancellations... why, did some high roler miss the flight out on their annual holiday?! Far out Einstein!
Lets face it, managment have made all types of claims but I have yet to see a statement put forward by them that illustrates they have any idea of what's about to happen. But my God, they sure can put a positive spin on just about anything can't they!?!

"Everythings heading to the crapper, but that's ok; We have the situation in hand. And the pilot shortage - what pilot shortage? The ABC mentioned something about it the other day - just another angle to work with: when we cancel flights, we'll blame the pilot shortage. And when the pilots want more money - we can't afford it - because we cancelled flights...! :ugh:

We got the clowns folks (and the monkeys so it seems), we just need a tent and an elephant!:ok: YEEHAAA

10-4 out