SIA B747-400 in steep dive

[Gladiator]

Post by proxy.

A Singapore Airlines B747-400 was on a trouble free flight, crewed by an expat captain, and two local (Singaporean) first officers. The captain had designated the sector to one of the first officers. At
the appropriate time, the captain took his in flight rest, and retired to the bunk. The first officer who had returned from his rest, had swopped seats with captain, and was not occupying the LHS. Anyway, the skipper was just dozing off, when he felt
the aircraft lurching around, coupled with the sound of the auto-pilot disconnect. He straight away jumped back into the cockpit, to find the aircraft in a steep dive. After further observation, he discovered to his
horror that the first officers had actually swopped seats during his absence!!

The aircraft was brought under control, and the necessary bollockings given to the two local f/os. Their explanation for both leaving their seats was that the f/o who was nominated as PF, thought he should occupy the RHS, as he was suppose to if he was
the designated PF. The question that he forgot to address was - who was flying the aircraft when they swopped seats ?!

[Truth Seekers Int'nl]

Have you had a psycological evaluation of late?

[Gladiator]

Truth seekers?

[Kaptin M]

Glad, TSI has posed a question that the majority of us here believe reasonable.

In today's aviation environment, mental instability has allegedly been a factor in many inflight incidents, and possibly accidents.

The sheer prolific volume, length ,regularity, and intensity of your posts, to try to put into disrepute anything associated with Singapore, Singaporeans, and Singapore Airlines, and the compulsion you display in accusing anyone who opposes your views as being Singaporean, an employee of SQ, a Singapore Government agent, etc., are ouside the parameters of normal, rational-thinking individuals.

It is obvious that you have a desire to be a dominating personality, however, equally obvious is the fact that SIA dominates YOUR every thought [and possibly actions], and hence controls you, consuming your time and money as you pursue a goal that will benefit you in no way should you achieve it, except perhaps to allow you some psychological respite.

Your identity is no secret, as you have left it uncensored on at least 3 of your own posts, and as such the FAA Medical Officer is well within his juridiction to order a psychological evaluation of you, at any time, because of your apparent unnatural obsession.

You need to consider your future, Glad. Don't jeopardise it because of your past.

[Gladiator]

Dear Agent M,

Thank you for your concern and advice.

I will continue to bring hard facts to the public as well as the aviation community. The information is here to stay. Long posts reflect the truth and facts.

You are here as much as I am.

You are also free to contact the FAA and inform them about my state of mental health. Would you like the address and telephone number?

I am your enemy because I bring information, I am your enemy because I am the insider and the whistleblower.

[Ding_dong]

It's looks like a communication break down in the cockpit or even cultural problem.

May I know more details about the crew?
:)

[titan]

M:
I know what I am fighting for. Same goes for Gladiator. What I can't understand is what you are fighting for. Its almost as if responding to Titan & Gladiator are the sole purpose of your being. I am touched, but I am also more than a little concerned. You exhibit very irrational behaviour and are highly sensitive to criticism. Jody Foster had a disturbing experience with a person who exhibited very similar behaviour to yours.
Gladiator persists in presenting facts, rules, regulations and rulings. These are indisputable. And yet you never seem to respond to these, but resort to attacking the man rather than the ideal.
My existence here coincides with the pressure being exerted upon me by SIA. Likewise for Gladiator.
The lie of your existence is as follows:

Your birth on Pprune, and that of Whiskery's, of Nov/Dec99 seems to also coincide exactly with the increased pressure being exerted by Titan & Gladiator on SIA.

You purport to be a captain in your nickname and posings but you are not. A First Officer possibly. However, the timliness of your postings rules out long haul. You may possibly be office or home bound.

You say you left SIA in 95 - I know everyone who left in 95, and you did not.

You are very sensitive to your use of English and retaliate with esotric words from the dictionary to prove otherwise when confronted. I do not believe English is your family language.

Your replies are most emotionally charged when either Singapore is being denigrated or yourself personally. You are Singaporean, though you have argued hard that you are not.

You have been in direct contact with other Ppruners lobbying against Titan and Gladiator with the same mis-information, but with a slightly different story each time.

Your name-calling gives a good guide to your age i.e. probably under 25.

When challenged on a technical matter you normally avoid the question or take a couple days to reply, which is out of character. Your knowledge base seems to be limited or directed.

You are nothing but an enigma...............

[Whiskery]

TSI - and you think Gladys needs a psychological evaluation !

[I'd rather]

whatever did Gladiator and Titan find to do while Pprune was down?

Maybe, just maybe they got out in the sunshine and realised there's more to life...

[CaptChaos]

Gladiator is it true that Singapore government monitors the internet in Singapore?

[Goldwing2000]

Capt Chaos,
It's not only the S'pore Govt that monitors the internet.The Malaysian Govt does it on a daily basis,I suppose they have more things in common then they would like to admit.
Kaptin M,Agent M or whoever you purport to be,your paranoia with Titan and Gladiator to be someone other then who they are is really eating through you just like hot knife through butter. You talk of 'dominating personality' but it's you that is the dominating one.You seem incapable of grasping the whole concept that is presented on these threads and you attack the mental stability of the aforemention persons when it's clear for all to see that the only one that has any irrational thinking and no doubt behaviour belongs to you.The facts are presented in a logical format and if you only took the time to go through them then you might reconsider your untenable position.What did Titan say "you are nothing but an enigma" certainly holds true.

-----------
I don't suffer from insanity.I enjoy every minute of it.

[ironbutt57]

maybe "M" isn't even a pilot, maybe just his boyfriend is

[Kaptin M]

Ironbutt, unlike yourself I do not lead an alternative gay lifestyle, and so have no boyfriend.

You credibility is again seriously put into question, with two posts submitted by you, a week apart, in relation to breaking of a contract:

July 5, on this forum, subject "Does Far East Forum represent life in Singapore", you wrote "...I would find that some of you other expatswould feel a little beholden to somebody who had the backbone to stand up his rights [sic].....What do the rest of you do, grin and bear it?"

Then, one week later on July 12, on the R&N forum, subject "Nordstress/AWAS contract", you posted, "....straight shooters, no tricks or games, do what you signed up to do..."

You're sure to be a welcome addition to "The Sewing Circle".

BTW Titan, 8 out of 8 wrong. Par for the course - again.

[ironbutt57]

both sides do as they agreed to do in the contract..it APPEARS from glad's posts, that the employer who signed his contract broke thier side first...if YOU find my credibility lacking I take that as a compliment thanks..... kaptin m...if it's a sewing circle, then surely you're the pivot man!!!!

[This message has been edited by ironbutt57 (edited 14 July 2000).]

[Truth Seekers Int'nl]

Goldwing,when you say the Singapore and Malaysian government "monitors" the internet,what exactly do you mean?

Anyone with a computer,modem and I.S. monitors the internet everytime they log on!

[Farside]

Gladiator why don't you stay with your bonding subject i.s.o. involving everything under the sun and making a fool of yourself.You begin to sound like Khomeiny with his big Satan story. Sorry my friend you have been too long in the sun. Stay in the shade and get a life.

[Gladiator]

Farside this post is by proxy, because, (a) the person is afraid to post from his own computer in Singapore, (b) PPRuNe is open for all and for any subject.

[Goldwing2000]

TSI,
If you have ever lived in the Far East then inevitably you will know what I mean.We might somehow or another assimilate information from the internet by the usual methods but we cannot interfere or tamper with the contents,unlike the aforementioned parties that can stop websites being created or emails being sent if they are not to their liking.Don't be fooled in thinking that this doesn't happen anywhere else in the world.How do you suppose they found the origin of the Love Virus?

------------
I don't suffer from insanity.I enjoy every minute of it.

[Flame Out]

To quote Mr. Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?" :)

[Whiskery]

Goldwing, if I am residing in Singapore or anywhere, my I.S. can monitor my email prior to delivery. This exercise would be very time consuming and labour intensive and unless it involved national security,would be a waste of time and money.

Now,if I am online and posting a topic to Pprune,there is no way I can be identified unless the government has "hacked" into my computer system. The internet is basically computers talking to other computers and the internet servers provide the "communication channels" for this to occur. Unlike the telephone,where,because you have a dedicated number,it can be "tapped" there is no such facility over the net. The only telephone contact is from your phone to the I.S. number to connect you (via modem) to the net,once you're connected the world's your oyster and there is no one who can tell where you are or what you are doing,from your end,unless they have accessed your system.

To imply there is a government official sitting behind a big screen watching computers talk to each other is paranoia and ignorance.

The reason a virus can be traced is because the "inventor" can't keep his mouth shut and some very creative investigative work by the international authorities.

[Farside]

Gladiator, just as a reaction to one of your earlier postings, you are not my enemy, but just the “forum fool”. You don’t give information, you just spread stupid rumors with no foundation what so ever. Take you’re logbook and find the page somewhere in 1993 where I was stupid enough to let you fly into Hong Kong, NOW THAT WAS SCARY!!!!! I hope you improved a little after that!!!
Get out of the sun and get a life!!!

[Kaptin M]

Hi Farside, the long and the short of Glad's bonding story is SQ won their legal right to relieve him of a sizeable sum of money, as per the contract, WHICH HE SIGNED.

Because of this, he's crying foul, and continues to entertain us all with his Singapore hate mail campaign, and wondrous tales of how brave he was to take on Goliath...trouble is he lost, but seems to be the only one who doesn't realize it.

[titan]

Farside - you crossed the line in the sand. Gladiator, if you can check your logbook and let me know who Farside is, then I will use the network to see how many examples we can find of his perfect record.
There is an old saying about "people in glass houses", also one about "he who throws the first stone".

Whiskery:
Your understanding of electronic communication is a shining example of your complete ignorance of your own ignorance. You better go and get some books out on intelligence gathering. Tread carefully.

[Flame Out]

How about "people in glass cockpits..."? :)

[Kaptin M]

Tita, do you have suicidal tendencies? Are you trying to put Farside further offside? He has already indicated that Glad is not his enemy, so why stir up a hornets nest.

If you guys had stayed focused from the start, as you obviously find it diffcult to do, you wouldn't be in this situation now.

Glad made no attempt to conceal his identity, on at least 3 posts that I read, where he left his name uncensored. I'm sure if you contact Farside, HE will tell you who he is - he's a a straight-to-the-point type of guy, blunt at times, but genuine.

[Farside]

Whooow Titan I am trembling in my boots!!I I am sure that you’re “network” will give me sleepless nights! Let’s get a few things straight here. If I remember it correct our friend the Gladiator was the first one to cross the line with ridiculing some Singapore local First Officers in his completely unfounded and fabricated story about the deep dive. If Gladiator has some unfinished business with SIA concerning the bond, well get it out but stick to the subject and don’t make a complete ass of yourself by making up drama stories. As I understand and with me many many more, Gladiator and most probably you too, have signed an agreement, when you needed a job . From where I come from it is very simple: you sign, and as long as they didn’t held a gun to your head, you stick to it, or you fight it out in a court of law, but stay to the facts. I know that there is always room for improvement in the training and safety for any airline on this globe, but by making SIA out as some wild third world charter outfit you must be really stupid. It only shows that you don’t know what you’re talking about, it also shows a total lack of airline experience. And don’t forget that you now also insult all the crews that are flying for SIA as being the “idiots” who fly for this outfit. I am sorry but I have to go flying now with all these “dangerous CPL F/O’s” and before that putting my second lot of ESOP in the mail and spending my S$53800 dollar bonus. ( Sorry that I stated in one of my earlier listings that it was $63000, but I forgot the 20% CPF!!!!!)

[Gladiator]

Yes the code of silence in the cockpit of an SIA B747-400. Captain in the bunkroom when he is not suppose to. Two first officers at the controls when they are suppose to be supervised by the Captain. But wait who is going to tell.

You are making an ass of yourself Farside because every SIA B747-400 and A-340 First Officer and 97% of the Captains know what I am talking about.

In 1993 you let me fly into Hong Kong and it was scary.

You might just take the title of the fool Farside because:

a) You might have me mixed up with someone else.
b) In 1993 I was on the B-747 and not B747-400. I never operated a sector into Hong Kong on the B-747. May be you should look into your log book again Farside.
c) Better yet come out and tell the whole story of the scary Hong Kong approach followed by the date and aircraft registration.
d) I CHALLENGE YOU.

I am sorry if you are insulted by the truth.

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 17 July 2000).]

[Gladiator]

Kaptin M which part of this paragraph do you not understand?

Singapore Employment Law CAP 122, Page 36, Part II, Contract of Service.

11. (2) Either party to a contract of service may terminate such contract of service without notice in the event of any wilful breach by the other party of a condition of the contract of service.

[Goldwing2000]

Whiskery, Your complete lack of knowledge or is it stupidity not mentioning naivety makes us all wonder how on earth you're able to fly today's aircraft packed with computers and electronic gadgetry.Ever heard of the CIA or have they gone out of business as the world is one happy family and no-one is snooping on anyone else these days!I suppose the S'pore Govt lets by-gones be by-gones and don't go snooping around opposition parties not forgetting a certain opposition member had to run for help fearing for his life across the causeway and I quote to "Dirty Johor".If they can pick out what colour shirt you're wearing from 300 miles up,do you not think it's fairly resonable to assume that it's easy enough to monitor and regulate the internet.My paranoia just happens to be the truth whereas your ignorance just happens to be real.

--------------
We are born naked,wet and hungry.Then things get worse.

[titan]

Dear Farside..........we are all waiting.

[SniperPilot]

Is it true that all Internet communications into and out of Sinapore are through Proxy Servers. Having worked with this kind of setup I can tell you they are a very effective way of not only monitoring Internet traffic but also filtering it. Would not be out of step with the Singapore Govt. mentality to do this I think. Have to keep a close eye on these white babarians you know!

[ironbutt57]

kaptin m doesn't understand ANYTHING rational....

[Gladiator]

I doubt if Kaptin M is even a pilot. On several occasions Kaptin M has lied about himself.

In one post he claimed to work on the 4th floor on Changi Road (SIA training center). Then he claimed to spend time at Harry's house (Lee Kuan Yew, supreme prefect of Singapore).

In another post Kaptin M did not understand aviation details and asked to be fed with a spoon.

Kaptin M claims to be an Australian (most likely Singaporean). He lacks credability in every possible front. He is only good at 'counterattacks', yet never produces any material to back up his counterclaims.

Kaptin M is just a lurker on the internet keeping himself amused. He is a veteran chat room participant which gets excited by aeroplanes.

[Gladiator]

Farside we are all indeed waiting. Do not hold anything back while describing the scary approach into HKG.

I CHALLENGE YOU.

[Gordo]

Hey Glad, while we're on the subject-

I remember when we flew into Mombasa on the DC-3 in '66.Now THAT was scary!! :)

(We're still waiting fside)

[This message has been edited by Gordo (edited 19 July 2000).]

[titan]

It's comical how KaptinM keeps re-inventing himself every few weeks. When things get a little hot, up pops a new character, just like magic, to defend him.
The mentatlity is aeroclub dreamer come weekend warrior, or as Whiskery summised, Singapore Flying College student.
There is no shame in any of those positions, we all started out somewhere once. The difference is that we climbed the ladder by asking questions and listening, not by espousing our ignorance.
The sand pit is out the back.

[Whiskery]

Goldwing - you got one thing right in your post:-

Quote: "My paranoia just happens to be the truth................."

Well said and I agree.

Gladys - another "challenge"! When you open your book for the betting,could you pencil me in for $100 for a win on Farside please. Ta!

Titan - "......a shining example of your complete ignorance of your own ignorance."

Mate, I know this Doctor who can help you and he doesn't subscribe to Prune so all your results will be confidential.
Is that treading carefully enough for you?



[This message has been edited by Whiskery (edited 19 July 2000).]

[Goldwing2000]

Whiskery,My statement in the context of the story which if you took the time to read would be helpful especially since your ignorance on the matter is plainly obvious.

------------
We are born naked,wet and hungry.Then things get worse.

[Gladiator]

Whiskery would you actually pay me the $100 USD if you lose?

Are you man enough?

[Whiskery]

Don't worry about it Gladiator - first of all I only ever back winners and secondly,what would your lawyers think about you gambling their retirement funds away?

[titan]

Whiskery:
You must be very old as your memory keeps slipping. Gladiator's legal bills are PRO BONO. A man of your intelligence would surely understand the meaning of that.
Once again you avoid taking up Gladiator's challenge. What happened to dropping your pants in the Pub???
You and Gladiator are the antithesis of each other: He stands and fights for what he believes in, while you attack then run and hide. No doubt you caught this yellow habit up in Singapore.

[Gladiator]

Jan 12, 93 SIN-HKG P.3 N125KL HK Si
Feb 10, 93 SIN-HKG P.2 N120KF Coventry W
Feb 26, 93 SIN-HKG P.2 N121KG Nicholas AR
Jul 24, 93 SIN-HKG P.2 9V-SKA Robinson
Jul 31, 93 SIN-HKG P.2 N125KL Farley K
Aug 31, 93 TPE-HKG P.2 9V-SQQ Flanigan RK
Sep 22, 93 SIN-HKG P.2 9V-SQT Lockett N
Oct 10, 93 SIN-HKG P.2 N116KB Yang HC
Nov 11, 93 SIN-HKG P.2 9V-SKA Marechal

If you have anything different than this in your log book FARSIDE you have:

a) Mistook my identity, or
b) You are full of chili.

You are caught feeding bull**** to PPRuNe readers. If you throw a challenge in my direction be prepared to go all the way.

And as for you, keep your $100.

[Whiskery]

Gladiator,

This is an anonymous forum,how can you have a case of mistaken identity? Are you telling me that you know the identity of Farside or are you having a wild **** guess that he is not one of the Captains in your log book?

[titan]

This is NOT an anonymous forum. It is just that the vast majority choose to hide behind other identities, me included, for the time being.
The identities of the important players are known to most, as it doesn't take much to find out, particularly with the clues that are left everywhere. SIA know who we are, why else would we go to the trouble??

As the say, the ball's in SIA's "court".

[Gladiator]

No Johnny I do not know the identity of Farside, neither do I care.

However, he has made a claim and I proved him to be a full of ****.

I say again if you throw a challenge in my direction be prepared to go all the way.

Now Johnny since you lost, next time you get into your 727 buy dinner and drinks for your Flight engineer and co-pilot along with a round of Johnny Walker on the rocks.

[jetwash]

If Gladiator's approach was so scary into Hong Kong what does that say about his training?

[Goldwing2000]

Jetwash,Get with the program boy!Gladiator has confirmed(see above reply)that it wasn't him at the controls.Try to pay attention cos we'll be asking questions later!!!!!!

---------------
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

[Whiskery]

Gladys,

Fair enough ! I'll be launching out of Melbourne in the old "Three Holer" soon and will definitely buy the crew a drink. Johnny Walker's a bit rich for me - would a beer or three suffice? I'll even but your mate Johnny J. one as well when I see him.
All these Johnnys!

Regards

Johnny.

[This message has been edited by Whiskery (edited 21 July 2000).]

[Capt Pax]

Sniper Pilot,

I can tell you for a fact that Pacific.net.sg is set up on a proxy server. They are, currently, the largest ISP on the island, with Singnet (wholly gov't owned) in a close second. Since they deregulated others are here now, so the stranglehold is loosening.

[Farside]

Gladiator, why don't you just copy the E-Mail that I sent to you (via Hotmail) uncensored and let's take it from there!! I am surprised to see that you made that many Hong Kong"s in one year, must have been a good learning proces!! The reason that there is a delay in my reaction now and then is that some people work and also have some other interests, other than dreaming up steep dive stories. (Remember that's where it all started, you throw a stone you get a few back!)

[VelvetStrokes]

Oh dear, Gladys and Titania and the fairies still at it.

I have to admit, though, it makes for the most entertaining fairy stories I've heard in a long while. Gladys was recently insulting to me in a puerile sort of way. He usually gets rather objectionable when he's losing the argument / plot. As does Titania and the rest of the mob; some of whom are obviously the same people with more than one alias.

The sewing circle, as Kaptin M so ably describes them, are not on the side of the good and the noble; no matter what they proclaim. They are purely here to serve their own rather unpleasant agenda. Unfortunately, for them, they are frequently unable to express themselves without resorting to invective, unpleasant but rather juvenile insults and a tendency to poorly phrased and badly constructed English. This has the self-defeating aim of alienating those they are trying to impress.

Now Gladys or Titania, just what was it you were trying so desperately to prove.............

oh yes, that you were pilots once upon a time and far far away...........

[noodles]

Velvety Thing,
Command of English is not at issue in this forum. If you wish to attack these guys for airing their opinion have the courtesy to realise that English is not always their first language. Gladiator has, on other threads, indicated this to you.

[VelvetStrokes]

Well excuse me Noodles, but that was a very minor point of mine. Strange you should pick on that aspect of my post and ignore the more worrying aspects of Gladys and the sewing circle. He blatantly posts inaccurate and insulting statements about people on prune and you have overlooked this.

He has no compunction about criticising others' English, usually badly and incorrectly. Didn't see you at the forefront complaining about him.

He also is very happy to publish rather inane, but unpleasant comments about me and others. Usually, in the hopes that we will be so offended we'll leave him alone. Sorry, no chance.


Still I'm sure you'll now be happy to redress your rather biased view and post a critique of Gladys and his ilk and their nasty insinuations about Kaptin M, Whiskery, Farside etc.

Well, one can live in hopes that you are not an incarnation of theirs......... (something about pigs flying)

[This message has been edited by VelvetStrokes (edited 22 July 2000).]

[flashdance]

This whole thread has deteriorated to nothing but childish name-calling. If only passengers could read all of this paranoia and juvenile hurling of insults, they would never set foot on an aircraft again.

All of you - GROW UP !!!!!! (And Gladiator / Titan - get over it, and move on.......please !)

[VelvetStrokes]

Flashdance I am a passenger and nothing in here would stop me flying.

Frankly I'm a little surprised by your attitude; it sounds just a touch patronising about passengers and their sensibilities. And do you really think that only aircrew read these forums.

[Gladiator]

Farside you never sent me an e-mail. Are you sure you do not have me mixed up with someone else?

If you have something to say you can say it right here. Again do not hold back.

Where is your log book entry Farside. I am still challenging you.

Velvet Strokes have you found a boyfriend yet?

[noodles]

Velvet,
You made the comment, deal with the criticism. It may have been a small point to you but to those of us that use English as a second language it is highly demeaning. Let contibutors write and make their thoughts known without snide attacks on their presentation skills.

Take your greivances up with those you dislike by emailing them personally and save us from your caustic patter.

Please...back to the subject of this thread.

[Kaptin M]

Well Sewers [as in sh-t carriers] which you two.......Gladiator..ha-ha-ha..and Titan(ic)have proven yourselves to be eminently qualified to register as......you really have been naughty girls while I've been away, FLYING for a living, haven't you?!!!

My Airline would be really pi55ed, if they knew that I wasn't a pilot [as claimed by Gladiator..18th July]...although I must admit that come pay day, I often wonder why they pay me so much for doing so little.

...in fact STORYMAN would probably make yet another incredulous "Believe It or Not...from the anals of Singapore Airlines" story, to whet the appetite of the ever hungry dimwits who believe his fantasies, factual or fictional.

[This message has been edited by Kaptin M (edited 22 July 2000).]

[Gladiator]

Kaptin M I have something to tell you. Titan myself and others have something to say. We have a purpose, we have walked the walk and can therefore talk the talk

But you and your circle have no purpose. Like Velvet Strokes you do not even work for Singapore Airlines (Do you? If you do say so.) Therefore you just pick a subject and let your frustrations vent. Picking which subject depends on past experiences, some not pleasant.

In this case the experience was traumatic enough for you to fight on behalf of Singapore Airlines. The locals must be laughing at you. They dare not engage.

Whiskery admited that he got shafted by SIA. Therefore he cannot stand others holding their own. What is the reason you are no longer working at SIA? Did you get fired? Did SIA not renew your contract because you were considered marginal in performance? Or do you have children and you did not want them to be educated under the Lee Kuan Yew system of education (no lateral thinking allowed). Or did your wife say it is going to be me or SIA?

Let us know where you stand. The threads lose focus if all you do is come in and say that we are bunch of idiots and all we do is make up the stories.

Where do you stand Kaptin M? My impression so far is that you really have no home, life or purpose. You just need to vent off.

[Kaptin M]

Glad, what you and titan fail to realise, but have admitted frequently yourselves, is that NEITHER of you completed the walk.

Like a marathon run, you both entered, but you didn't have the stamina, nor the self-discipline to carry through to the end. Okay, others have dropped out as well, but they don't blame the person who accepted their entry for THEIR OWN inadequacies....that is where you guys are getting up our collective noses!!

I don't work for SIA, however, as a past employee, who worked there longer than you and titan [and still in regular contact with other ex-pats currently there], I am thoroughly familiar with the runnings of that airline, and just as you choose to post your point of view, I similarly elect to balance the image you project, by posting my perspective, at times it seems our views are diametrically opposed, but at least it keeps things interesting, and allows others to form an opinion. I don't purport to always be correct, but then it's obvious from your contributions that you don't aim for absolute veracity, rather, mixing fact and fiction to try to achieve your objectives.

The reason I left SQ was for none of those you've cited - SIA provided me with extremely valuable training, and as much as life in Singapore was very different to that of my native country, it was nowhere near as intolerable as you seemed to have made it for yourself. There were times with SQ, just as there have been with the other 3 majors I've worked for, when I had to grit my teeth, think "what a pack of b...'s you are", but then remember that I could fight far more effectively from inside the arena, than to run away, as you have done.

So you see, Gladiator, your user-name is really an antithesis, because are no longer a part of the day to day, toe to toe, battles that are being fought - by YOUR choice, you ran away.

As you, or whomever it was using your name in the Chat Room several days ago, said, PPRuNe provides me with some recreational pleasure. Sometimes [technically] informative, often amusing, and has allowed me to exchange thoughts and ideas with other like and non-like minded individuals, but always easily terminated by the click of the mouse.

I don't believe I've stated publically that I think you're a "bunch of idiots", but your constant moaning about how you were wrongly done by, is reminiscent of a small child whinging because he has chastised by his elders, for doing something he knew would get him into trouble. I'm not the one who is "venting off", however like all eruptions, these minor outbreaks of yours carry a slight odour with them.

[Whiskery]

Gladys,

You're right I did get shafted by SIA and so did a lot of my mates.(I'll assume you are referring to the Inducement pay issue?)I got over it,finished my contract and got on with life.

As far as "....cannot stand others holding their own." I know what you are holding onto mate and if you keep doing it you will go blind!

Now I'm going off on a three day jolly in my 727 and buying your mate JJ a couple of beers on your account. When I get back I hope you have retracted the nasty things you have said about me and my friends here at Pprune.

Keep the Faith:]

Regards

Johnny.

[Gladiator]

Kaptin M you still fail to understand that under Singapore law I have the right to terminate my contract should a breach occur.

Need I state the paragraph out of Singapore employment law again?

I never moaned about conditions or how I was treated. It was a contractual matter and it went to the court of law.

You seem to have a problem with the fact that I am letting the public read what actually went on. I let them decide for themselves. During the whole ordeal SIA's big thing was not let the others know what is going on. Why? Why not let the others know what is going on.

Information is the enemy of the State of Singapore. I am the enemy because I am delivering information without candy coating. How do you equate that with running away.

Freedom of speach is against the law in Singapore. PPRuNe is not Singapore.

If you want to balance the act (so you claim) why do you not challenge facts of the case per ICAO, FAA, CAAS, SIA documents. That is where the real truth lies. The rest is BS.

[titan]

The light is appearing!

FACT - no foreign national has "walked the walk" yet. The first course was in early 92(approx). Training at 15-20 months plus a 7 year bond, makes the total package 8.5 years which expires between now and the end of the year. Of the 50 or so pilots that took up the offer of a career under this scheme, there are about 5 left, and of those 5 only one is NOT actively looking for other employment.

You people that postulate so much knowledge about our predicament are ignorant of detail. You were on a different scheme. My guess is that you are mostly bitter and twisted ex Ansett boys who did the 5 year $47,000 bank guarantee scheme; a little different to the $320,000/9 year one of ours, don't you think?
It is becoming obvious that you never had the fortitude to fight back at Abeles and are therefore annoyed that Gladiator and myself are what you wished you could have been. How did so many supposedly intelligent people give up without a fight? In the real world you don't win by acting like children, standing at picket lines yelling abuse or running around in the middle of the night throwing paint over the cars of the people you disagree with. That is pathetic. The real world is controlled by Courts of Law.
That is the avenue that Gladiator and I have chosen. Gladiator has won. My fight continues. It is Singapore Airlines that is chasing ME through the Courts, it is Singapore Airlines that is attempting to bankrupt ME and my FAMILY members individually.
Nothing will halt me in my cause. That you choose to stand in the way simply makes you an accessory and therefore a casualty. Singapore Airlines has used the Courts in a manner devoid of ethics or morals.They have set the ground rules, so don't become indignant when the altercation starts getting more intimate. The proof will be in the details.
Lastly, I thought everyone knew who Gladiator and Titan are, and yet I learn that Whiskery, KaptinM, Addinfurnitum, Velvet Strokes and Farside still have no idea. It is not like we have tried to hide it.

[Kaptin M]

More mis-information, or deliberate lies, from titan. Try names of foreign nationals, who HAVE "walked the walk" ie. did their time as F/O's, on local terms and salaries,[which you guys failed], as you like to put it, such as Mike Geekie, Steve Quilkie, Hughie Clarke, and Tony Marshall....and these guys, each, did much, much longer as F/O's than the cumulative total of both of you two!

titan, I do feel sorry for the position that you have PUT YOURSELF, and your family members into, but to blame Singapore Airlines is akin to blaming Telecom for charging you for telephone calls you have made.

Surely you understood the contract, as your guarantors must have, when you all agreed to put an extraordinary amount of money into surety, as evidence of their trust and faith in you.

If you wish us to know who you are, email us at our addresses provided.

[BAE146]

I've been wacthing this debate for the past 5 months now and it's boring the **** out of me and a few of my buddies.
I reckon if the server wasn't bung,that this would have been moved to Jet Blast.The last 10 posts have got nothing to do with the original topic and it is just a slagging match between the usual combatents.Reminds me of all that '89 garbage in Oz just went on and on and on.. My advice for what it's worth - Gadiator and titan & Co get on with sueing SQ (give it to them BIG time) but stop getting your buddies to throw in crud stories about SQ. KaptM and Whiskery & Co stop treading on all the land mines these guys drop around the place (you get suckered in every time) and stick to what you know. You write some good stuff on aviation but I think this legal stuff is over you heads. In other words GET OFF each other's f***ing CASE for a month or two and give us all a break or move your s*** into Jet Blast.
It'll make the Far East forum a lot more readable. Your legal stuff is OK Gladiator.

[QNH1013]

BAE146,
I understand your point but this thread is also I'm sure closely red and followed by others like myself who have our own 'concerns' with SIA. Alot of the points are exaggerated, but alot are also very true. SIA is very unforgiving, I know that firsthand and yet still do not dare to voice my experience or opinion for my own personal reasons of wanting to keep a low profile and not let Lenny know who I am. (He's not in my good books at all) I will just sit tight and accept what I am lucky to have or have had.
Despite all said here, there are many who are content, either on local terms or expat terms and just try and make do with what SIA offers and making a living in Singapore. Of course it could be better....(HDB living is not the best and frustrating if you can't even get a location near any MRT!!! and the waiting period just for housing?? Arrrrhh!
Some just feel fortunate to start out after training on the right hand seat of a Boeing 777.
Can't have everything in life.

[Slasher]

Im sticking my nose into this thread because the whole bloodey exercise has deteriorated to a name-calling bum fight.

Gladiator forget the SQ war storys and just stick to your legal transcript readouts. There interesting and I support you having the balls to take SQ on. I wish I had the same resources back when I was shafted over the Inducement pay.
Dont reply to, or make comments about, replys that are baiting you (esp ones that attack you personaly). Your just not good at it. Ignore them and keep posting. And for you and Titan PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU BOTH GET YOUR FACTS ABSOLUTLEY RIGHT BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING. You will be called in to provide proof and youd better have it because a lot of readers obviousley doubt your credibility. In my case I could post here no less than 10 (yep, 10!) SQ incidents I experienced firsthand during my tenure, but I wont because I dont have the proof to back them up. Of course I could ask everybody to just take my word for it (and some might) but thats begging for trouble from the start.
You both MUST stop apearing like your better than anybody else. You may not realise it but this is the impression you give everybody. An example is a quote from a prev Glad post in this thread: "I am your enemy because I bring information, I am your enemy because I am the insider and the whistleblower." unquote). For Christ sake mate a dose of humility would go a long way! Ive mentioned this to you before.

KM and others if you want to criticise just do it without all the name-calling. Attack the argument and not the arguer. Not only is it a more efective debating method but your posts gain respect. (KM you dont do yourself justice here mate as I know your capable of much better debate). And remember the sewing circle has as much right to post in Far East as you and I have. Otherwise we will lead ourselves into useless mediocrity just like the "Chemtrails" site has done to itself. If people are forced to shutup then the whole point of PPRuNe is lost (as well as potential useful information).

And everybody: if you dont like certain threads/posts then just ignore them. I know I do.

[titan]

Point taken Slasher.
If you have 10 incidents then post them!!!! If they happened to you personally how come you say you dont have the facts?? Your logbook exists, the maintenance records exist, and your word exists under oath in a court of law (if that is your concern).
SIA is a master at cover-up. One thing is for sure, what ever comes out here is just a fraction of the reality. The purpose here is to present the known/perceived information and induce comment for reinforcement or negation. That certain parties attack every action against SIA only demeans the quality of their posting.
Attacking the person rather than the arguement is childish, unbecoming and of no use here in Pprune.
My piece is said.

[Slasher]

Titan just think things through for a minute.
1. Ok suppose I post every incident. Name captains, FEs, places, times, flight numbers, N-this and 9V-that. Someone (say KM or Whiskery) calls me in and says the incidents are simpley crap and to show hard proof. Well I cant unless I copy all relevant documents and send them to there email. That is something I will NOT do!

2. Gladiator might jot everything down and present them to his lawyer. Then I get an email from Glads lawyer saying will I testify in court with all the supporting proof I have? Answer: nope!

3. Worse, SQs lawyers get hold of it (either through Glads lawyers or reading it here on PPRuNe), put dates and flights together and spit out my name. Now SQ will go after MY jugular! This is on top of possible legal action by SIA against PPRuNe itself who hosted my testifying post, and my name becomes (complete) sh*t in Dannys eyes.

4. Now Im embroiled with court witnessing and SQ chasing my butt and worst of all Im banned from PPRuNe!

---------------------------------------------
And for what? Just to prove a point that everyone in the Industry knows quite well already?
---------------------------------------------

Unlike Glad Im not willing to go through all that, titan, just to prove SQ is not a safe Company (although I admire and support his attempt on taking on SQ. That shows rare guts and I hope he wins the battle). Besides as you said SQ is a master at cover up. In the end it will be my word against theirs as they will have bullied any other pertanant witness(es) to silence. And then what? Im pursued by SIA for years!

Like others Ive put it behind me and got on with life. If Im going to bust a stress artery one day itll be because of something worthy of it - certainley not bloodey SQ. Apart from that Im now in a 737 job that pays an obscenely huge taxfree salary and I will NOT jepardise that for anything!

Im satisfied to simpley say I dont like SQ and IMHO based on my experience they are unsafe and have a terrible working environment. I do not wish to ever work for them again in any capacity and I would urge other pilots to steer clear of them. You can take my word for it or tell me to go jump in the lake. Its just my (informed) opinion.

Im not frightened titan, I just cant be bothered going through all that court rigmarol simpley to prove a point. Even if it is proven and made public by the worlds press do you think the traveling public would realy give a hoot? No they wouldnt. For proof look at KAL. Theres suicidal passengers STILL willing to pay and sit in its cabins!

[VelvetStrokes]

Slasher Well said - I have nothing to add to your points.

As for Gladys and Tintin - get a life guys, move on as you've been told many times.

Noodles, your attack was unwarranted, your oversensitivity about the English is your problem. Deal with it. One point though - Gladys is constantly making rather unpleasant and snide comments about me and others, don't see you leaping to our defence. Email them - you have to be kidding - I get enough junk mail as it is.

Additionally, just what is this thread about - Gladys and Tintin airing their grievances again (for the umpteenth time), throwing enough dust in the air to obscure the truth about their ever more ridiculous claims.


[This message has been edited by VelvetStrokes (edited 24 July 2000).]

[This message has been edited by VelvetStrokes (edited 24 July 2000).]

[Kaptin M]

Then add the "Fun Factor", Slash...what do I have to lose? [Answer=nothing], What do THEY have to lose?[Answer=EVERYTHING].

The truth is tho', most of what these guys put up here is HEARSAY....and like a lot of rumour, innuendo, and gossip, it appeals to the masses. BUT, when you try to pin it down to ONE individual, who's willing to stand up and testify, under oath, it becomes a different ball game.

Unfortunately, Glad and titan have yet to reach that stage in life...that line drawn on the floor, where you play with YOUR OWN stakes at risk, and not those that MIGHT be inherited...that you consider ALL options, and THEN weigh up your odds.

Yup, I admit, I resorted to below the belt "name-calling" in my last post.

But it is "hard to soar with eagles, when you're surrounded by turkeys!"

I worked for SQ..they served a purpose for me, as I [did] for them. At the end of the agreed deal, they didn't NEED me, and I didn't NEED them, and so we parted, as per the contract.

At this point in time, they aren't offering anywhere near to the money, to consider a return...perhaps, and more than likely this will change - as a matter of fact, the longer they leave it go, the more expensive it will be for them!!

And yes, the contracts which I've worked under since, have [by my interpretaion] been breached several times over.....strictly speaking. Is there ANY contract that hasn't?? [eg. love, honour, and obey.] It all becomes a matter of 'trade-offs', in one form, or another.

Unfortunately, Glad and titan have been given a sharp, if not expensive introduction, to the real world.

[Goldwing2000]

Kaptin M,there you again purporting to understand and know everthing that is happening to Gladiator and Titan when fundamentally you comprehend absolutely nothing!You love to dig up the nitty gritty details and slam it head on to the aforementioned persons when really you've kept us all in the DARK as to your motives and reasons for leaving this fantastic super-duper airline!I'm sure it was such heartache wrenching yourself away especially since you think it was appropriate that you could fight more effectively from inside the ARENA.We are all eagerly waiting your reply.What do they say about eagles "Eagles may soar but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines!"

Velvet,a word of advice which you love dishing to others on this forum especially when you don't understand the workings of an airline let alone SQ,as most here are either Sq, ex-Sq or pilots, get a life and stick you long nab somewhere else, where it could be more appreciated.I'm not surprised you've racked up over 590 posts with the sort of dribble that's appeared on some!Your paranoia with agent M on some of us being one and the same are frankly delusional but since you and agent M are of the same ilk,then this doesn't really surprise me.

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I'm not as think as I drunk I am.

[Goldwing2000]

Kaptin M,there you again purporting to understand and know everthing that is happening to Gladiator and Titan when fundamentally you comprehend absolutely nothing!You love to dig up the nitty gritty details and slam it head on to the aforementioned persons when really you've kept us all in the DARK as to your motives and reasons for leaving this fantastic super-duper airline!I'm sure it was such heartache wrenching yourself away especially since you think it was appropriate that you could fight more effectively from inside the ARENA.We are all eagerly awaiting your reply.What do they say about eagles "Eagles may soar but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines!"

Velvet,a word of advice which you love dishing to others on this forum especially when you don't understand the workings of an airline let alone SQ,as most here are either Sq, ex-Sq or pilots, get a life and stick you long nab somewhere else, where it could be more appreciated.I'm not surprised you've racked up over 590 posts with the sort of dribble that's appeared on some!Your paranoia with agent M on some of us being one and the same are frankly delusional but since you and agent M are of the same ilk,then this doesn't really surprise me.

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I'm not as think as I drunk I am.

[Gladiator]

Kaptin M you are wrong in your assessment of life's situation, lessons, etc, as applied to me (Titan speak for himself).

However Slasher has shown wisdom more than once, so I will take his advice and no longer bout with you.

However as before I will be willing to discuss technical details only.

VS get a boyfriend.

[Goldwing2000]

Kaptin M,there you go again purporting to understand and know everything that is happening to Gladiator and Titan when fundamentally you comprehend absolutely nothing! You love to dig up the minutia and slam it head on to the afore mentioned persons when really you have kept us all in the DARK as to your motives for leaving this fantastic 'super doopa' airline! I'm sure it was such heartache wrenching yourself away, especially since you think it was appropriate that you could fight more effectively from inside the ARENA. We are all eagerly awaiting your reply. What do they say about eagles? Eagles may soar but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines!!!

Velvet, a word of advice as you love dishing this out to others in this Forum, especially when you don't understand the workings of an airline let alone SQ, as most here are either from SQ, ex SQ or pilots. Get a life and stick your long neb somewhere else where it could be more appreciated. I am not suprised you have raked up over 590 posts with the sort of drivel that has appeared in some of the posts. Your paranoia with Agent M with some of us being one and the same people, are frankly delusional but since you and Agent M are of the same ilk, then this doesn't really suprise me.

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I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

[ironbutt57]

velvet strokes=masturbate? kaptin m...well 'nuff said

[Jack Schitt]

Gladys,
I hear that you are referred to as the Persian Pussy in some quarters, is this your website? http://persianpussy.com/

Tits,
how come you crapped your kaks when I asked if you lived at such and such email address in Oz?
Your threats to Farside seem a bit hollow after that. :)

Farside, if you would like to communicate directly with Tits, please contact me, I'd be only too happy to oblige. :)

[Goldwing2000]

Sorry for the repetitive threads boys and girls but what more can I say then 'Internal server problems with pprune'

[titan]

Dear Jack:
It seems to me you that are a particularly nasty person. Chickens eventually roost.

My email is [email protected]
This is not a secret. No need to make threats, you have my permission to give my telephone numbers to Farside, and I will look forward to the call. I have nothing to hide. What about you?

[VelvetStrokes]

C'mon fairies, you've done this topic to death. Even your insults are getting stale, juvenile and repetitive.

Doesn't matter who did what to whom; no-one cares about how badly you were treated. Gladys, tintin, ironpuff, goldthingie and the rest - really, truly, honestly we don't. So why don't you just let the subject drop and move on.

[Goldwing2000]

........and why don't you get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat!! :rolleyes:

[Gladiator]

OK it is time for a pad lock.