Ex Pat To AUSTRALIA or NZ?

[RetroFire]

I'm a US airline pilot thinking that I might enjoy flying in the Australia/New Zealand area. Any opportunities or demand for us Yanks w/Qantas or Air NZ or others? Pay and terms OK? Cost of living high/low? Never been there, but looks like a good locale.

[Kenny]

Got to be a wind up!!!

[RetroFire]

What's a wind up?

[Kenny]

OK I'll save you the trouble of being verbally beaten up and chastised by my more militant countrymen. Here goes.......

"I'm a US airline pilot thinking that I might enjoy flying in the Australia/New Zealand area"

Well great but it might be an idea to see what would be required to move to another country, with the right to work and live there. Being an American I'm sure you're aware that it is not that painless to move to the US in order to fly and live there. Why would you think it's any different in Australia?

"Any opportunities or demand for us Yanks"

No more than anywhere else in the world......

"w/Quantas or Air NZ or others?"

Oh dear, where to start with this one? Well first, it would be to your advantage as far as being taken more seriously if you had worked out that the National Airline of Australia is actually called QANTAS. It's an acronym, google it.

"Pay and terms OK?"

You'll be told by others that there's a search function, try it and see what you find.

"Cost of living high/low?"

Again you'll find more than a couple of web sites that will give you a good idea about the cost of living in Australia.

"Never been there, but looks like a good locale"

You might want to actually visit somewhere you'd like to move to.

I'm guessing a regional pilot with either Mesa, Skywest or Shutubqua??

[Ralph the Bong]

Hi Retro,

Look mate, dont worry about the wind-up merchants. There are plenty in Australia; it's a national sport.

As you might be aware, to work in Australia, you need residency or a 457 visa. The later is a employer sponsored program wheer highly qualified people, like yourself can come to Australia to meet a current shortage of skilled labour. Fortunately for you, there is a current massive shortage of pilots, here in Oz (that's what we locals call Australia). Check with Department of Immagration and Foreign Affairs to see where you fit in. Another option is to be either married or defactoed to an Australian resident. Take your pick.

You will need to convert to a Oz ATPL. This could be hard. I got a US ATP some years ago and I found this to be a walk in the park compared to the Oz requirements, so you will have to dust off the books and really know your stuff. There are about 7 exams and the pass rate is ~ 20% of candidates at each sitting.

Some of the requirements are pretty antiquated and this is because most of the people who run things here in Oz are a throw back to world war 2. For example: GPS is part of ATPL Navigation and so is an ability to use a sextant (I kid you not!). Things like this are a real source of frustration here, so you had better get used to it if you come. You will also need 30 words/minute morse code.

You will also have to dust off the physics books especially the section on electronics. The subject Aircraft Instruments exam is pretty hairy, and you will have to understand Ohm's law to be able to calculate the total resistance of a sample generic instrument panel. You will also be expected to determine the useful live of a battery with a specified pre-charge state with a loss of AC power. Pedantic, I know, but it may save your @ss one day. You will also be required to apply Gauss's law so as to determine the electric field at the STBY compass. Luckily, the practical component of this subject has been dropped.

There is another subject call Basic Human Factors that you will have to master. You may get an exemption if you have a post graduate diploma in the field or have had extensive experience as a CRM instructor. If this is the case, you will have to do an oral exam. If you dont, the written exam is a 3 hour paper(as are all Oz ATPL exams) with 6 essay type questions. Again, know your stuff.

The other subjects are pretty straght forward but Air Law will require you to have a good understanding of the Jepps, the Aeronautical Information Publication, The Australian Civil Aviation Reulation, The Civil Aviation Safety Regulations, The Civil Aviation Orders, The Air Navigation Act, 1988 ,Australian Civil Aviation Advisory Publication and Furman's Rules of the Air. Be familiar with this last one as many of the exam questions will be sourced from it. Dont worry, the exam is open book.

Employment wise, there are many opening here at the moment. A shortage has pushed up the T&Cs in a pretty big way. J* recently gave its pilots a 43% pay increase so as to attract talent (such as yourself) from overseas and to stop the tide of Aussie pilots leaving for Emirates and the like. Because of the shortage. Qantas is also considering DECs onto the A330, B737 and B767 fleets because of a lack of qualified staff. The B747 side of things has pretty slow movement, but get an application in quick as slots will be demand and thing could change soon. V-Australian is another option but the pay is a bit less at $250,000 for captains. A mate just got a job there as an FO on $180,000 ++. He has about 5,000 hrs including about 1800 hrs on Dash8s. I understand they will help you to move too, and give you rent free accomodation for the first 6 months. You will have choice of bases, too, but recommend Sydney as the bottom has fallen out of the housing market and you only have to pay ~$750,000 for a 3 bedroom place in a nice suburb, like Blacktown. You may choose something cosmapolitan in the inner city where $800,000 will get you a nice 2 room townhouse in Redfern. Forget about the Perth base, too expensive.

Anyway, good luck with your efforts. Oz has the best beaches, beer and woman in the world. Let us all know you go with your efforts.

[flying-spike]

And another requirement is to learn how to take the P1SS out of septics like everybody else!

[tail wheel]

Naughty children!!! :E

RetroFire. Before thinking about who may employ you in Australia, I suggest you establish whether you are eligible to obtain an Australian Visa (http://www.immi.gov.au/immigration.htm)and specifically, what class of Visa.

Migrating to and working in Australia is certainly no easier or simpler than an Australian seeking similar residence and employment in the USA.

To contemplate a move to a foreign country simply because it "...looks like a good locale" may be faught with danger! From my many visits to your shores, the US "...looks like a good locale" but certainly does not engender any personal desire to live and work in the USA!!!

Good luck in your quest! :ok:

Tail Wheel

[RetroFire]

Is New Zealand any easier to get qualified and work in than AUS? AirNZ says they are hiring...

[Split Flap]

You would be hard pressed to get a sponsored work visa as a pilot in NZ, the shortage is not as acute as Oz. Air NZ is not hireing at the mo as it's 787's have been delayed.
The wages are WAY lower than in Oz and the cost of living is higher you would have to have rocks in your head to come to NZ over Oz. There is a reason why 1 in 10 Kiwis are are seriously considering moving to Oz.
In saying that if you did get a work visa/residency and for sum reason wanted to work your arse of in this left wing, expensive, crap country. Air NZ has no problems with hireing foreign pilots. PM me and I will be able to give you an indication of our ****ty payscales. 12 years to a 737 command, 20 years for A320 and dosen't even bear thinking about for widebody, probably about 26-28 years in the company. Enjoy. :{

[distracted cockroach]

Hey Split Flap, if it's such a "left wing, expensive, crap country", maybe you should bug out and go elsewhere.
As you well know (or do you?) time to command in Air NZ is completely variable. The times you quote have been valid at one time, but there are also guys who have done little more than 3 years to 737 command (within the last 5 year timeframe) It all depends on what other pilots bid for, and what else is available. How long to a 737 command in Qantas? I have no idea but I doubt it is all that much different. What about time to command at United or one of the other big US carriers?
What about Jetconnect or Pac Blue?...time to command there is much shorter if you have the necessary jet experience. Swings and roundabouts.
You sound like a bit of a bitter twisted individual.....just the sort of person who someone needs to tell them about a country.:yuk:

[Split Flap]

Yes I agree times are variable, there are a FEW people who got commands in the time frames you speak of. But the latest guys on the 737 have been in around 10 years (yes i do have a rough idea what im talking about).
My point is this, wages in NZ aviation have not caught up with the cost of living in this country. Unless this chap comes here with enough money to put down a large deposit on a house in Auckland he's going to spend over half his salary on the mortgage, and it won't be a palace.
NZ has a lot of great things to offer but this chap was asking about terms and conditions and cost of living. Hes not going to have much left over once he's paid his bills on a starting Air NZ salary.
And don't worry i'm looking at leaving. :ok: You wont have to fly with me much longer.
Pac blue and Jetconnect would be great options for a quick command and would be better financial sense in the medium term. Esp Pac Blue with their rumoured pay rise.

[mattyj]

I agree with Split Flap..getting cost of living adjustments (not pay rises!!) to offset inflation in this industry is a sick joke!

Vote National in the election..whoopee! The blue flavour of the rubbish we've just put up with for nine years..last one out turn off etc etc

[RetroFire]

Thanks everyone! :DVery useful info.:ok: Looks like I'll continue to look States side,:eek: as ex patting looks very involved! :ugh:

[Pluto's gone]

Go to the CASA website to find out what is involved in obtaining your Aussie ATPL not as hard as suggested. You only have to do a conversion exam and an instrument rating flight test which is basically same thing that you did in the states for the ATP check ride.

Only some airlines require passes in all Aussie ATP subjects, why bother?

Oh and don't know why how or who but there are more and more expats working in Oz, bit like there are more and more Ozexpats working around the world.

What ever floats your boat really, its about a lifestyle choice and if Aus is what you want go for it, just like with others they may want other locations, just go and do what you want to do.:D!

[SouthSeasFlyer]

Guys... I am an American that is looking for a pilot job now that my opportunity at Aloha Airlines is gone.

We had a guy from Qantas come to HNL to tell us all about the contract jobs at JetConnect and JetStar so I have applied.

I am part of the way done with my NZ permanent residency and work permit as well.. and have the NZ Medical and the ATP Air Law exam done... just waiting to see what happens.

The JetConnect and JetStar pilots are part of the Qantas pilot group, but do they mix the crews? Is there any animosity towards contract pilots? Can one progress to be a full Qantas pilot if they start at JetConnect?

I am looking forward to moving down there myself... I love the South Pacific... My wife is from Samoa and I have lived in Fiji and New Caledonia... I really miss that part of the world.. but I want to make a good career choice too.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

RP

[J D]

Hi Retro PM Sent,

SSF...good to see you again, it looks like things are progressing well for you.

I am currently in NZ, having just finalized my PR! What a relief!

Cheers,
JD

[UB6IB9]

has anyone heard of any pilot's working in oz on a working holiday visa? i guess more along the lines of the smaller turbine and/or seaplane operators?