Keg
29th Apr 2008, 12:08
This is some of the advice that I've given to a whole bunch of people both on PPRUNE as well as to cadets in the AAFC- which is why some of it reads like I'm talking to teenagers.
Given the significant increase in PMs in recent times I thought I'd condense it all into one long message and post it up here in the interests of assisting those who are considering cadetships, QF, selection, etc. The opinions are mine and things/my opinion may have changed slightly since I first aired them (some of this advice comes from 2002). They're as accurate as when I made them and buyer beware if you take too much notice of any opinion in them.
The questions should be quite obvious from the answers if I haven't posted the questions properly.
Enjoy.
What do you think would be the best method of applying to be a pilot with QANTAS.......Direct Entry or the Cadetship program??
I'm an ex cadet so my slant on things may be a little biased but I'm a firm believer that if you do the cadetship doing it the 'better' way.
The CPL cadetship is expensive at circa $80K-$100K (2007 prices- or closer to $110K if you go to Adelaide but that includes all meals and accomodation similar to an ADF officers mess). That said though, a CPL with a 'normal' school, your ATPL subjects, your instrument rating etc is going to cost you the better part of $60K anyway.
So you have to look at the extra $30K and see what you get. Whilst QF say on paper that they don't guarantee you a job, there isn't a cadet yet who they ultimately haven't offered a job to. About 1 cadet in 20 gets sent out to get 12 or so months experiene (due to some issue or another that may have come up during their training) but I haven't heard of one of them not being offered a job when they have the experience that QF has required of them.
So you can take the punt on spending $60K and not getting in (for whatever reason) or spend the $95K to get there.
If you look long term at it though the figures stack even closer to doing the cadetship. It may cost an extra $30K in the training but you will make that difference back in your first year as a Second Officer with Qantas. A new CPL in GA will be extremely lucky to make more than $30K a year and a lot of them won't get close to half that figure from flying. A brand spanking Second Officer is on $65K per annum and will normally earn at least 10% more than that on overtime. If you times that by the three to four years it will take to get from a basic CPL to in the airline you are a now a long way in front with a cadetship.
The other little thing to consider is seniority. It rules a pilot life in an airline like Qantas. You get your trips, annual leave and promotion opportunities based on your seniorority number. We recruit about 100-200 new pilots every year and so a couple of hundred number difference can mean the difference of four to five years for final promotion to command.
However, it should be said that if you only want to get the cadetship becasue you want to be an airline pilot then you may be doing it for the wrong reasons. It is a good way to get to the airlines but if you weren't prepared to do 'The Hard Yards' (THY) anyway if you didn't get in then you probably aren't going to approach the cadetship with the right attitude.
In short, the cadetship provides a short cut to the airlines for someone was was hell bent on getting their anyway. In that respect, it is a far better way to go.
Also does getting lets say a Private Pilots Licence through AAFC flying advantage you at all while doing the cadetship?
I reckon a PPL would be a great help. First of all, you won't have to do all the flying- thus saving yourself some money along the way. Seocndly, it wil allow you to finesse the skills that you already have. I started my cadetship with a PPL and did about 20 of the 35 hours which was required for GFPT. I could have done less but found the rewards in my skill snd confidence level so I wouldn't stop flying in that respect but also, don't go and blow the budget getting to PPL just for that. Solo standard will serve you just as well in getting through the aptitude testing.
What sort of role do you think marks play in the process? By no means are my marks bad, but they're not fantastic (im averaging a B in all subjects, and an A in physics). Do they only accept applications from the smartest ones?
All things being equal they'll take the smarter one but initially the marks are just used to do the initial selection. As long as you're OK, you'll get through to the next stage. After that it comes down to psych and skills moreso than your marks.
Academic results are only part of the issue- in fact, they're not even a LARGE part of it. They use academics to put you over the line and all things being equal with someone else, they'll take the person with the higher marks but it isn't always that cut and dried. I missed out on first application becaue my HSC result was a few marks below the arbitrary cut off line. I got through because I phoned them up and explained that I'd done a student exchange to NZ during year 11 because I felt the 'life experience' was more valuable than the 20-30 marks I probably dropped. They put me through to the next stage and the rest is history.
Ultimately, it's about how you 'fit' into the profile. Not everyone who actually gets an interview fits exactly what they want but is close enough for them to have a look. It's called a 'behavioural interview' and is worth a search on the internet. Sometimes they'll want to probe a deficiency that may have shown up in the psych test to see if it really IS a deficiency or just a blip. Other times they'll want to see whether they can sit beside this person for 8-12 hours at a time over water and depend on them to speak up if someone else is going to kill them by doing something stupid.
In this respect, the academic results just get you to the place where you REALLY have to show them what you've got. I'll be honest and say that I don't really know what 'it' is that they want to see beyond what I explained above- can I sit beside this person for a long period of time, trust them not to kill me when I'm in the bunk and then have a feed and a beer with them at the end of the day.
Internal recommendations don't mean that much. I've done references for two people. for cadetships- both people I knew very well and would've LOVED to have flown with. One got through, the other got knocked back and is now flying Saabs for Rex. The one that didn't get through was the one who I expected to get through- moreso than the other candidate. Just goes to show that you can't tell some times. Of course there is nothing to say that a recommendation from Keg isn't a kiss of death! :eek:
...what sort of thing they're looking for in a cadet?
They're after the same thing that they're after in all applicants with one added extra. Firstly, they want to know that you can fit in with a variety of people from different backgrounds. They want to know that you'll speak up if you think someone is breaching an SOP or getting you into serious danger. They want to know that you can do the job and then have a drink with the rest of the crew at the end of the day. The extra bit that QF is looking for in a cadet is the motivation to put in the hard yards to get the cadetship done- and done well- and then progress into a demanding industry with not a great deal of experience behind you.
I'm told that most people don't get in on their first go and the key is to keep re-applying...
I'm not sure how this works any more so rather than tell you the wrong thing, I'm better off saying nothing. It doesn't hurt to re-apply but make sure you read and understand any rejection letter that QF may send you. There are sometimes nuances that imply that you should stick in another application a bit further down the track.
Any advice or hints which you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
1. Be yourself. You either fit the profile or you don't and nothing you do on the day will change that. If you do want to improve yourself, you need to do that BEFORE you turn up for the psych and so on.
2. If you don't fit the profile, it is NOT the end of the world. It doesn't make you a less of a pilot or person, it just means you didn't fit the QF profile on that day. You may fit the profile in the future or you may not. See point 1.
3. Work on your 'non-technical' skills. Develop your teamwork and decision making abilities. Get involved in team sports and other activities that challenge your abilities to lead, follow, communicate, argue, discuss or otherwise be actively involved in a 'team' environment. I was an instructor in the Air Force Cadets after being a long time cadet and credit that with me getting in.
If I don't get accepted, and do the training through other means, when I come to apply for a job later down the track, will 'not fitting the profile' still be a problem,
It may be but you wpn't ever know until you re-apply after a few years. I know a bunch of pilots in QF who didn't get the cadetship (for who knows what kind of reasons) but subsequently got in direct entry. It may have been psych, it may have been something else. That's the gamble with aviation. At the end of the day, if you're serious about flying for a living, you've got to be happy ending up flogging around GA doing bank runs for the rest of your life. If you're not 'content' ending up at that level then you won't be particularly thrilled with the 'job' of flogging around in an airliner. It's a lonely, boring job at times and if you don't love aviation, you'll go nuts.
I have my QF interview coming up in a few weeks and I'm sure one of the potential questions will be 'what is the role of a Qantas SO?'
Whilst I have a general idea, I'm not quite sure on the specifics or if there's any 'bullet point' main duties. Is there any chance you could briefly describe the role please and I guess what sort of answer they'd be looking for in an interview?
Your default response is 'cruise relief'. Legally that is why we have S/Os. Practically there is the other reasons you allude to- extra set of eyes and ears, learning position (and it's an unbelievably good place to sit to learn about both long haul operations as well as general flying issues), etc. I wouldn't focus too much on the 'paperwork' side of things because as you rightly identify, it's one of the jobs you do.
The other one worth highlighting is that the role of the S/O is to (where possible) unload the two guys in the front seats during critical phases of flight and/or increasing their situational awareness without them having to prompt.
Some examples of this would be anything from updating the ATIS into Singapore just after top of descent (it changes on the half hour); listening out on the right VHF frequency to TWR when the weather is marginal to find out whether people are getting in; and even knowing whether the transport has arrived to take you to the aeroplane in London and if it hasn't, having the phone number of Heathrow Ops ready to go (or confirming that the hotel has it) so what when the Captains says 'is the buss here' you can say 'yes' or 'no' and respond to the skippers direction to 'call Ops' (in the 'no' case) wiith the minimum of fuss.
You alluded to one other thing in your post that is a part of the job but isn't part of the role when you mentioned being able to get on with someone. When you're away on a trip the crew becomes your 'family' and I certainly feel it's part of my responsibility to look after them. This doesn't mean living in their pockets or doing everything together and it can be a difficult thing to maintain when you're only doing one sector with someone and they're on the opposite break to you in cruise so you only see each other during pre-flight and climb and then again for descent. It does mean keeping an eye out for their well being though and that includes being aware that if you've got other plans for the slip port that they may be 'orphaned' for a few days. Some days you can't do anything about it but important to at least acknowledge that you are going to leave them flat.
How does the funding work for the cadetship?
I'm not sure about how the funding works for the cadetships. I think if you google FEEHELP or something like that then you'll see what the information is about. I don't know about any funding arrangements beyond that.
Should I go GA/instructing to learn before I go for the QF cadetship
From my perspective there isn't a more enjoyable place to learn about airline flying than in an ailrine. A cadetship gives you a seniority number and access to some great flying along the way. You won't get to 'do' GA- something that I look back at with a small tinge of regret- but your life will be 1000% more stable. Rule #1 with airlines is that seniority rules your life and so the sooner you can get in, the better off you are in the longer term.
I'd only recommend the instructing/GA path if you weren't successful with the QF cadetship. You'll end up training the cadet pilots who will be younger than you and senior to you in the airline. Avoid that if you can but don't consider it a loss if that's the way you have to go in order to get into the airline. If you can get the funds, the cadetship is the best way for my money.
Ultimately you have to make the call and you're the one that has to live with the decision. I can help explain the options from a different perspective but you have to be happy with the decision you've made and where it takes you. Otherwise you'll end up resenting me for what should be your decision.
How will recruiting go over the next few years?
Yes the next few years are supposed to be huge but it doesn't take much for all that to stop. With the world financial stuff at the moment I'm not sure the industry has another three years of massive growth in it. Perhaps we do but I don't expect that there will be a pilot shortage in seven years time. A few years after that though when the cycle gets going then I think the shortage will be worse than it is now. A cadetship with the airline at least gives you a place in the line when things kick off again if things do grind to a halt in the next couple of years- as it did just after I started my cadetship.
So, my advice is find the quickest way to get into an airline- any airline. I suspect that is still the QF cadetship. Ultimately though, QF is full of guys that missed out on the cadetship when I applied and who subsequently got in a few years behind me so don't drop your bundle if you don't pick up the cadetship.
What is like as a S/O in Qantas?
'Typical day' is about as variable as the pay and depends on your rank and seniorority. S/Os are only carried on flight times greater than eight hours or on tours of duty longer than 11 hours. Things like Sydney to Bali and then on to Singapore etc. The role of a S/O is basically an 'apprenticeship' in QF where the S/O sits in the back seat and doesn't do take offs or landings. They watch the Captain and F/O do the hard work and then the S/O jumps in above about 10,000' and can do the flying then. They are also involved in the pre flight as well doing various odd jobs, reading the notices, assisting with ordering the fuel, etc. There is more to their role than that but that will do until you get an interview.
A typical day could be signing on in Sydney between 0500 and 2000hrs and then flying for the next 8-14 hours depending on your destination. As an example, my last trip signed on at 0840, we departed an hour later for Bali and SIngpore arrive at 8pm Sydney time (1800 Singapore). We signed on again the next morning in Singapore at 0810 to depart at 0910 and fly from Singapore to Perth and back to Singapore arriving in SIN at 2100 local- 13:20 tour of duty by the time you put the aeroplane to bed and complete customs at the other end. Sign on the next evening at 2000hrs local to fly from Singapore to Bali to Sydney arriving at 0800 local in Sydney. Typical stand down from that trip would be two days (not including the day you got home).
S/O trips range from 3 days to 14 days whereas most trips for Captains and F/Os range from 2-10 days. Trips may be exclusively domestic flying for 767 drivers to a combination of both to purely international for the 744 drivers who do the runs to Europe and the USA.
How does the instrument assessment part of testing go for the cadetship?
The skills assessment at QF is similar to the RAAFs except that QF uses computers to do it (not sure if the RAAF still used their '50s vintage machine that they were using in 1989!) The first one is use with stick and rudder whereby firstly you have to make your dot stay over the dots that stream down the screen. Pretty easy with the stick, a little harder with the rudder (especially if you have had it drilled in to 'step on the ball' to center it when flying as the co-ordination one is opposite!) and then a combination of both.
The instruments basically give you the six primary instruments and then you have to 'read' them and pick up what the aircraft is doing and pick the right response from the five underneath. Previous flying experience DEFINATELY helps with this one. The hardest part of this one is actually reading through the responses and finding the incorrect ones as all five responses may start with 'climbing, right hand turn at 200 knots....' and so the only bit of wrong info in the five response will be the last one. They do include an explanation for those who may not have seen the instruments before and people get through without it but every little bit helps. Anything you can do the day or week before to finesse your hand eye coordination would be great. Tilt, Timezone etc were all popular amongst our lot who did it! :D
I'm 34. Am I too old for the cadetship?
Age for the cadetship isn't a drama. We've had cadets who were in their late 30's previously. Obviously though, the earlier you get in the better. As I said earlier, seniority plays a big part. I'm lucky in that I have only 8 people in QF who are younger than me who are senior to me. That means that ultimately, when I retire, I'll finish about number 9 on the pile of 2000+ crew. Blokes who joined the RAAF when I tried to get in will be joining Qantas toward the end of this year when the return of Service obligation is complete. They will be about 900 seniority number junior to me. That means they will be about ten years to twelve years behind me getting a command. I'm due for one in about two, they are looking at 12-14 years. Also, I'll be a senior captain on the aeroplane with better pay and conditions when they check to line as a junior captain. Both places still aren't bad but I now which one is better. That said, they've had ten or so years of absolutely great flying which I missed out on. The choice is your own. I tried to get into the RAAF, they knocked me back- something which now appears to be VERY fortunate for how my life has turned out.
If you are dead set about a 'career' in an airline then get in early. If you want to have fun in the RAAF and then try your luck in an airline then you can do that too- the decision is up to the individual and it is a harsh call that at age 18 you will have to make a call that could well have profound impact on your life in 20-30 years time!
Given the significant increase in PMs in recent times I thought I'd condense it all into one long message and post it up here in the interests of assisting those who are considering cadetships, QF, selection, etc. The opinions are mine and things/my opinion may have changed slightly since I first aired them (some of this advice comes from 2002). They're as accurate as when I made them and buyer beware if you take too much notice of any opinion in them.
The questions should be quite obvious from the answers if I haven't posted the questions properly.
Enjoy.
What do you think would be the best method of applying to be a pilot with QANTAS.......Direct Entry or the Cadetship program??
I'm an ex cadet so my slant on things may be a little biased but I'm a firm believer that if you do the cadetship doing it the 'better' way.
The CPL cadetship is expensive at circa $80K-$100K (2007 prices- or closer to $110K if you go to Adelaide but that includes all meals and accomodation similar to an ADF officers mess). That said though, a CPL with a 'normal' school, your ATPL subjects, your instrument rating etc is going to cost you the better part of $60K anyway.
So you have to look at the extra $30K and see what you get. Whilst QF say on paper that they don't guarantee you a job, there isn't a cadet yet who they ultimately haven't offered a job to. About 1 cadet in 20 gets sent out to get 12 or so months experiene (due to some issue or another that may have come up during their training) but I haven't heard of one of them not being offered a job when they have the experience that QF has required of them.
So you can take the punt on spending $60K and not getting in (for whatever reason) or spend the $95K to get there.
If you look long term at it though the figures stack even closer to doing the cadetship. It may cost an extra $30K in the training but you will make that difference back in your first year as a Second Officer with Qantas. A new CPL in GA will be extremely lucky to make more than $30K a year and a lot of them won't get close to half that figure from flying. A brand spanking Second Officer is on $65K per annum and will normally earn at least 10% more than that on overtime. If you times that by the three to four years it will take to get from a basic CPL to in the airline you are a now a long way in front with a cadetship.
The other little thing to consider is seniority. It rules a pilot life in an airline like Qantas. You get your trips, annual leave and promotion opportunities based on your seniorority number. We recruit about 100-200 new pilots every year and so a couple of hundred number difference can mean the difference of four to five years for final promotion to command.
However, it should be said that if you only want to get the cadetship becasue you want to be an airline pilot then you may be doing it for the wrong reasons. It is a good way to get to the airlines but if you weren't prepared to do 'The Hard Yards' (THY) anyway if you didn't get in then you probably aren't going to approach the cadetship with the right attitude.
In short, the cadetship provides a short cut to the airlines for someone was was hell bent on getting their anyway. In that respect, it is a far better way to go.
Also does getting lets say a Private Pilots Licence through AAFC flying advantage you at all while doing the cadetship?
I reckon a PPL would be a great help. First of all, you won't have to do all the flying- thus saving yourself some money along the way. Seocndly, it wil allow you to finesse the skills that you already have. I started my cadetship with a PPL and did about 20 of the 35 hours which was required for GFPT. I could have done less but found the rewards in my skill snd confidence level so I wouldn't stop flying in that respect but also, don't go and blow the budget getting to PPL just for that. Solo standard will serve you just as well in getting through the aptitude testing.
What sort of role do you think marks play in the process? By no means are my marks bad, but they're not fantastic (im averaging a B in all subjects, and an A in physics). Do they only accept applications from the smartest ones?
All things being equal they'll take the smarter one but initially the marks are just used to do the initial selection. As long as you're OK, you'll get through to the next stage. After that it comes down to psych and skills moreso than your marks.
Academic results are only part of the issue- in fact, they're not even a LARGE part of it. They use academics to put you over the line and all things being equal with someone else, they'll take the person with the higher marks but it isn't always that cut and dried. I missed out on first application becaue my HSC result was a few marks below the arbitrary cut off line. I got through because I phoned them up and explained that I'd done a student exchange to NZ during year 11 because I felt the 'life experience' was more valuable than the 20-30 marks I probably dropped. They put me through to the next stage and the rest is history.
Ultimately, it's about how you 'fit' into the profile. Not everyone who actually gets an interview fits exactly what they want but is close enough for them to have a look. It's called a 'behavioural interview' and is worth a search on the internet. Sometimes they'll want to probe a deficiency that may have shown up in the psych test to see if it really IS a deficiency or just a blip. Other times they'll want to see whether they can sit beside this person for 8-12 hours at a time over water and depend on them to speak up if someone else is going to kill them by doing something stupid.
In this respect, the academic results just get you to the place where you REALLY have to show them what you've got. I'll be honest and say that I don't really know what 'it' is that they want to see beyond what I explained above- can I sit beside this person for a long period of time, trust them not to kill me when I'm in the bunk and then have a feed and a beer with them at the end of the day.
Internal recommendations don't mean that much. I've done references for two people. for cadetships- both people I knew very well and would've LOVED to have flown with. One got through, the other got knocked back and is now flying Saabs for Rex. The one that didn't get through was the one who I expected to get through- moreso than the other candidate. Just goes to show that you can't tell some times. Of course there is nothing to say that a recommendation from Keg isn't a kiss of death! :eek:
...what sort of thing they're looking for in a cadet?
They're after the same thing that they're after in all applicants with one added extra. Firstly, they want to know that you can fit in with a variety of people from different backgrounds. They want to know that you'll speak up if you think someone is breaching an SOP or getting you into serious danger. They want to know that you can do the job and then have a drink with the rest of the crew at the end of the day. The extra bit that QF is looking for in a cadet is the motivation to put in the hard yards to get the cadetship done- and done well- and then progress into a demanding industry with not a great deal of experience behind you.
I'm told that most people don't get in on their first go and the key is to keep re-applying...
I'm not sure how this works any more so rather than tell you the wrong thing, I'm better off saying nothing. It doesn't hurt to re-apply but make sure you read and understand any rejection letter that QF may send you. There are sometimes nuances that imply that you should stick in another application a bit further down the track.
Any advice or hints which you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
1. Be yourself. You either fit the profile or you don't and nothing you do on the day will change that. If you do want to improve yourself, you need to do that BEFORE you turn up for the psych and so on.
2. If you don't fit the profile, it is NOT the end of the world. It doesn't make you a less of a pilot or person, it just means you didn't fit the QF profile on that day. You may fit the profile in the future or you may not. See point 1.
3. Work on your 'non-technical' skills. Develop your teamwork and decision making abilities. Get involved in team sports and other activities that challenge your abilities to lead, follow, communicate, argue, discuss or otherwise be actively involved in a 'team' environment. I was an instructor in the Air Force Cadets after being a long time cadet and credit that with me getting in.
If I don't get accepted, and do the training through other means, when I come to apply for a job later down the track, will 'not fitting the profile' still be a problem,
It may be but you wpn't ever know until you re-apply after a few years. I know a bunch of pilots in QF who didn't get the cadetship (for who knows what kind of reasons) but subsequently got in direct entry. It may have been psych, it may have been something else. That's the gamble with aviation. At the end of the day, if you're serious about flying for a living, you've got to be happy ending up flogging around GA doing bank runs for the rest of your life. If you're not 'content' ending up at that level then you won't be particularly thrilled with the 'job' of flogging around in an airliner. It's a lonely, boring job at times and if you don't love aviation, you'll go nuts.
I have my QF interview coming up in a few weeks and I'm sure one of the potential questions will be 'what is the role of a Qantas SO?'
Whilst I have a general idea, I'm not quite sure on the specifics or if there's any 'bullet point' main duties. Is there any chance you could briefly describe the role please and I guess what sort of answer they'd be looking for in an interview?
Your default response is 'cruise relief'. Legally that is why we have S/Os. Practically there is the other reasons you allude to- extra set of eyes and ears, learning position (and it's an unbelievably good place to sit to learn about both long haul operations as well as general flying issues), etc. I wouldn't focus too much on the 'paperwork' side of things because as you rightly identify, it's one of the jobs you do.
The other one worth highlighting is that the role of the S/O is to (where possible) unload the two guys in the front seats during critical phases of flight and/or increasing their situational awareness without them having to prompt.
Some examples of this would be anything from updating the ATIS into Singapore just after top of descent (it changes on the half hour); listening out on the right VHF frequency to TWR when the weather is marginal to find out whether people are getting in; and even knowing whether the transport has arrived to take you to the aeroplane in London and if it hasn't, having the phone number of Heathrow Ops ready to go (or confirming that the hotel has it) so what when the Captains says 'is the buss here' you can say 'yes' or 'no' and respond to the skippers direction to 'call Ops' (in the 'no' case) wiith the minimum of fuss.
You alluded to one other thing in your post that is a part of the job but isn't part of the role when you mentioned being able to get on with someone. When you're away on a trip the crew becomes your 'family' and I certainly feel it's part of my responsibility to look after them. This doesn't mean living in their pockets or doing everything together and it can be a difficult thing to maintain when you're only doing one sector with someone and they're on the opposite break to you in cruise so you only see each other during pre-flight and climb and then again for descent. It does mean keeping an eye out for their well being though and that includes being aware that if you've got other plans for the slip port that they may be 'orphaned' for a few days. Some days you can't do anything about it but important to at least acknowledge that you are going to leave them flat.
How does the funding work for the cadetship?
I'm not sure about how the funding works for the cadetships. I think if you google FEEHELP or something like that then you'll see what the information is about. I don't know about any funding arrangements beyond that.
Should I go GA/instructing to learn before I go for the QF cadetship
From my perspective there isn't a more enjoyable place to learn about airline flying than in an ailrine. A cadetship gives you a seniority number and access to some great flying along the way. You won't get to 'do' GA- something that I look back at with a small tinge of regret- but your life will be 1000% more stable. Rule #1 with airlines is that seniority rules your life and so the sooner you can get in, the better off you are in the longer term.
I'd only recommend the instructing/GA path if you weren't successful with the QF cadetship. You'll end up training the cadet pilots who will be younger than you and senior to you in the airline. Avoid that if you can but don't consider it a loss if that's the way you have to go in order to get into the airline. If you can get the funds, the cadetship is the best way for my money.
Ultimately you have to make the call and you're the one that has to live with the decision. I can help explain the options from a different perspective but you have to be happy with the decision you've made and where it takes you. Otherwise you'll end up resenting me for what should be your decision.
How will recruiting go over the next few years?
Yes the next few years are supposed to be huge but it doesn't take much for all that to stop. With the world financial stuff at the moment I'm not sure the industry has another three years of massive growth in it. Perhaps we do but I don't expect that there will be a pilot shortage in seven years time. A few years after that though when the cycle gets going then I think the shortage will be worse than it is now. A cadetship with the airline at least gives you a place in the line when things kick off again if things do grind to a halt in the next couple of years- as it did just after I started my cadetship.
So, my advice is find the quickest way to get into an airline- any airline. I suspect that is still the QF cadetship. Ultimately though, QF is full of guys that missed out on the cadetship when I applied and who subsequently got in a few years behind me so don't drop your bundle if you don't pick up the cadetship.
What is like as a S/O in Qantas?
'Typical day' is about as variable as the pay and depends on your rank and seniorority. S/Os are only carried on flight times greater than eight hours or on tours of duty longer than 11 hours. Things like Sydney to Bali and then on to Singapore etc. The role of a S/O is basically an 'apprenticeship' in QF where the S/O sits in the back seat and doesn't do take offs or landings. They watch the Captain and F/O do the hard work and then the S/O jumps in above about 10,000' and can do the flying then. They are also involved in the pre flight as well doing various odd jobs, reading the notices, assisting with ordering the fuel, etc. There is more to their role than that but that will do until you get an interview.
A typical day could be signing on in Sydney between 0500 and 2000hrs and then flying for the next 8-14 hours depending on your destination. As an example, my last trip signed on at 0840, we departed an hour later for Bali and SIngpore arrive at 8pm Sydney time (1800 Singapore). We signed on again the next morning in Singapore at 0810 to depart at 0910 and fly from Singapore to Perth and back to Singapore arriving in SIN at 2100 local- 13:20 tour of duty by the time you put the aeroplane to bed and complete customs at the other end. Sign on the next evening at 2000hrs local to fly from Singapore to Bali to Sydney arriving at 0800 local in Sydney. Typical stand down from that trip would be two days (not including the day you got home).
S/O trips range from 3 days to 14 days whereas most trips for Captains and F/Os range from 2-10 days. Trips may be exclusively domestic flying for 767 drivers to a combination of both to purely international for the 744 drivers who do the runs to Europe and the USA.
How does the instrument assessment part of testing go for the cadetship?
The skills assessment at QF is similar to the RAAFs except that QF uses computers to do it (not sure if the RAAF still used their '50s vintage machine that they were using in 1989!) The first one is use with stick and rudder whereby firstly you have to make your dot stay over the dots that stream down the screen. Pretty easy with the stick, a little harder with the rudder (especially if you have had it drilled in to 'step on the ball' to center it when flying as the co-ordination one is opposite!) and then a combination of both.
The instruments basically give you the six primary instruments and then you have to 'read' them and pick up what the aircraft is doing and pick the right response from the five underneath. Previous flying experience DEFINATELY helps with this one. The hardest part of this one is actually reading through the responses and finding the incorrect ones as all five responses may start with 'climbing, right hand turn at 200 knots....' and so the only bit of wrong info in the five response will be the last one. They do include an explanation for those who may not have seen the instruments before and people get through without it but every little bit helps. Anything you can do the day or week before to finesse your hand eye coordination would be great. Tilt, Timezone etc were all popular amongst our lot who did it! :D
I'm 34. Am I too old for the cadetship?
Age for the cadetship isn't a drama. We've had cadets who were in their late 30's previously. Obviously though, the earlier you get in the better. As I said earlier, seniority plays a big part. I'm lucky in that I have only 8 people in QF who are younger than me who are senior to me. That means that ultimately, when I retire, I'll finish about number 9 on the pile of 2000+ crew. Blokes who joined the RAAF when I tried to get in will be joining Qantas toward the end of this year when the return of Service obligation is complete. They will be about 900 seniority number junior to me. That means they will be about ten years to twelve years behind me getting a command. I'm due for one in about two, they are looking at 12-14 years. Also, I'll be a senior captain on the aeroplane with better pay and conditions when they check to line as a junior captain. Both places still aren't bad but I now which one is better. That said, they've had ten or so years of absolutely great flying which I missed out on. The choice is your own. I tried to get into the RAAF, they knocked me back- something which now appears to be VERY fortunate for how my life has turned out.
If you are dead set about a 'career' in an airline then get in early. If you want to have fun in the RAAF and then try your luck in an airline then you can do that too- the decision is up to the individual and it is a harsh call that at age 18 you will have to make a call that could well have profound impact on your life in 20-30 years time!