All those that flew for Discover (f)lying on the Penguin runs

[flying-spike]

Is Sir M still around? What happened to the the operation?

[Capt Wally]

oh 'M' would still be around alright, he's one tough operator. He may not be in the flying game but he'll be in sumfin' that's for sure !:bored:
His Jap express penguin runs folded some years ago now, (poor old Doves)he went onto just training at a country strip nth of ML for a while & might have given it away entirely now, not too sure tho.

Fun days just the same, YPID, you could count on one hand the amount of rwy lights actually working !:)


CW

[Howard Hughes]

Always aspired to fly for 'Penguin Express', never made it though...:{

[nig&nog]

Never flew the dove to YPID for Big M but took nearly everything else down there for him. Good old DTZ and BAJ would be my favourites. Dont miss the cold nights waiting in the hanger and spilling your dinner enroute if it was bumpy. You could also count the amount of bunnys you would "nearly" hit on T/O and LND. I was always amazed that anyone could even see the runway lights they were that dim.

Nig not nog

[yowie]

With nig on that one, C310, AC50,PA31,PA44 all logged on the 'duck' run, never had the joy of the 104 thou,bugga:ok: Hi to Di and Moz if ya lookin:D

[Capt Wally]

ahhh you guys missed one hell of an airframe the old DH104 (Dove) It was perhaps the worst ergonomically designed plane airborne, typical pomms but boy did they know how to build a plane that still flew after years of neglect!:bored: 800 HP to convey 4 tons, stalled at 65 kts GW & once full flap was out (40deg's) you where going only one direction ...DOWN regardless of how much HP you had !:) 13 POB, was that an unlucky No or what?:bored:

I remember old DTZ (c310) & BAJ (AC50), the latter I have a funny story about if you guys ever want to hear it.
I still remember old Sandy (PID owner way back then, nice guy) chasing planes down the rwy in his old XD ford wanting his ldg fee, was the funniest thing to watch!:)
God where's the tissues !:{

"HH" you missed some fun times, but that's about all mate!


CW

[flying-spike]

Loved the Doves until NBM tried to kill me and my pax. Still remember changing aircraft from the Dove down to Chieftain, C310 and stopped at an Apache of all things when pax numbers dropped off one night. Interesting place, anybody know what happened to "The Rat"?

[john_tullamarine]

.. never did the Penguin Run .. but did a few night trips in the Navajo over Melbourne when that was in vogue .. an interesting chap ...

[nig&nog]

Capt Wally

every time I enter a toilet and find water downed soap I think of Sandy. Also has been a while since at Wallan, but is NBM still there rotting away or has it been moved. Use to love flying out of Wallan, hope urban sprawl doesnt kill it.

[Capt Wally]

I think you will find that NBM & ABM are no longer:{ The rats ate 'em !
I gather you saw NBM at Wallan, a real shame to see a once grand old lady derelict. I thnk if I recall that particular airframe (or it might have been ABM) was built around 1950!, might have been earlier!
'Nig' I had to laugh at the watered down soap story, yr lucky you got soap period!:bored:

CW

[Mr Milk]

Sandy would never part with a dollar so the runway lights would be wired up by him, utilising tape, nails, clothes pegs-you name it. What a top guy!
He would water down ANYTHING to save money, but i guess he has a bit now.
Chasing guys in the falcon? never saw it but you put a very funny image in my head

[Capt Wally]

Mr Milk you should have been there when he did that, talk about angry:bored:
And he used up turned juice bottles (the ones he ratted out of the bin after we bought them & threw them away) to put over the top of the 12v tiny globes representing rwy/taxi lights!!

I recall one night in an old Seneca 2 it was so damp with a fogged up windscreen when we taxied out that all I could do was hold the torch out the storm vent window (PA34 lights where useless) to see where I was going, his taxiway lights where as bright as a burnt out candle ! I ended up doing a full circuit of the taxiway in front of the main hanger right back to where I started from 'cause all I could see was the edge of the dirt ! At least the japs thought it was normal, then again it was really !:)


CW

[Mr Milk]

Sandy wouldnt rat things out of the bin surely:E
Is he still around? last i heard pid was gettin knocked down for mansions:{

Some people just think of the money all the time.

[Centaurus]

What a cowboy operation those penguin runs were and DCA just looked the other way. Monsieur Le Morrice rang me urgently to fly a Navajo from EN. Pax were aboard when the battery was found to be dead flat. Raced down the tarmac and met M racing up the tarmac abusing me for not starting up and get going. Told him to get nicked and find himself another idiot to fly his bomb. Think we got a battery cart from somewhere in the end and got donks running. Big Yank bloke occupied RH seat. Shortly after airborne door warning light came on and big draught. I think we may have lost a radio en route and to cap it all off the left prop feathered itself on the landing run. The Yank ordered me to get another aircraft as no way he and other pax would return on that Navajo. A C310 arrived and got bogged. Yank really spitting chips but finally got away in the 310. Then I got abused for writing the snags in the MR. Yeah - some fine operation in those days.

[Capt Wally]

obviously 'centaurus' you had one of the better days, you got off lightly mate!:bored:;) Great story tnxs, loved it!
I can still remember M standing in front of the Dove/s seconds after the cabin door was closed waving his arms about suggesting why are the engines not running, get going !!:bored: When taxing out in a Dove you had about 2 or 3 brake applications on the way to the holding point b4 the air supply was too low to bring the U/C after T/off. One got quite good at assy pwr applications & rarely touched the brake lever!
I also remember after T/off one very still evening from PID once I set course for the city I never touched the steering wheel (that's what they looked like) 'till not long before touchdown, used only the rudder pedals & the elev trim wheel for control, such was the ability of the pommy flying wreck to stay aloft with little in the way of primary control manipulation:)

ahhhh the memories


CW

[flying-spike]

When were you ther Wally? I was putting up with Sir M Oct 88 to April 89

[Capt Wally]

'FS' i'll go back thru a few log books & give you an exact date as to when I last flew for Sir M, shall PM you
Am lucky to know what date it is today never lone when I was last abused by 'M' !:bored:

CW

[flying-spike]

I know what you mean. Final straw was copping abuse because I brought the pax back after having assymetric flap on t/o with NBM. The rat had to restrain me from thumping him.

[Capt Wally]

BTW 'FS' those dates I sent you where the last time/s I flew the Doves, I would most likely have flown other types before I got smart!
Still to his credit I did get good experience from that op & learnt a lot more than flying any RPT run !

CW

[flying-spike]

Too true, and the important thing is we survived Sir Ms "school". I can honestly say that if it wasn't for that organisation I wouldn't be so interested in safety!

[Stationair8]

"flying-spike' would have be interesting watching you squeeze your delicate little frame into a Dove cockpit.

Old Sandy at PID, used to do a few charters into there for car racing, always wanted the landing fee and fuel paid in cash and no receipt okay.

Mate did some work on the penguin express, new Navajo endorsement no ICUS and sent off to PID on ****ty south westerly night, likewise another night something went u/s and got sent of in a Seneca or Aztec that he hadn't flown for some time.

[yowie]

CW,
That old (XD?) Falcoon was a life saver, great for an interesting ride to the fish and chippery across the bridge, and for jump starting Shrikes! :ouch:

[flying-spike]

As Wally said, the Dove was an ergonomic disaster. Fortunately for the fit, so was/is my body!

[Capt Wally]

'yowie' am pretty sure it was an old ford XD (White) & yes Sandy did lend it to us to get F&C's when there was little else to feed our faces with!:)

I remember the F/F's in the Dove at T/off, they went off the scale ! 2X IO720's drinking juice as if it was free ! One rarely got the chance to read them close anyway as one was tap dancing on the rudder pedals trying to keep NBM in line until airlfow helped, ABM at least had the original fin/rudder & that being more effective.
'FS' remember draining the oil out of the pneumatics after a flight? That system was meant to be air only but mostly oil poored out with the rush of what air was left in the tank!:bored:
Still at the time I guess we where all 'learning', made real men out of boys those adventures did !:)


CW

[flying-spike]

I remember the rat giving me a lecture about not leaving the u/c lock in prior to my first trip to Phillip Island in ABM only to overtake him in NBM with a bit of dayglo hanging out of his still-extended u/c!.
Also several a/c departing the island with no lights, using only the reflector tape on the old tyres around the u/s lights.
Who could forget the Phillip Island ILS.: Track to Churchill Island, turn right and follow the bridge and keep the street light on the left hand wingtip!

[Capt Wally]

God 'FS' am almost crying here with the memories:{ Stop it, my current work sounds so boring !:bored: If you where lucky enough to get the U/C after T/off then you where an excellent pilot with not having to use the little air that those poor worn out compressors where delivering during taxi.
Was fun before they put the pwr lines under ground at the nth end of the main strip. A great delight of mine was to come over the Rd somewhat 'lowish' so the drivers could see the oil dripping off the cowls by the gallon !:E
Late at night upon arrival back at EN how wonderful it was to put those U/C locks in place when it was raining without looking like part of the B&W minstral show afterwards!:bored:

How many plovers & rabbits did you knock over 'FS' on a single T/off roll? at least 3 to 4 on average!
I've been back in there (PID)a couple of times in the B200 & i can almost feel the years slip back to 'the good 'ole days' !:)

CW

[flying-spike]

Only ever got one that I know of and I hate plovers. Bloody thing took a dislike to ABM's left engine after start. Blood and feathers everywhere. Used to love doing the 26ILS in ABM, station passage over the PLE locator was indicated by the needle on the ADF swinging through 180 degrees forward of the aircraft to 180 degrees aft of the aircraft!

[Capt Wally]

Try a twin loc app for rwy 26 !!!!! it doen't exist, never has but I've heard a few over the years coming back from the Island asking for that exact appr!:bored: The only instruments you had in a dove was a clock (wind up version) a compass that pointed Nth only when the engines where off & a 'stick-on' ADF cut out from some flight Mag that M glued to the panel !, was the lattest type mind you:E:E

ILS in a Dove??? ILS = I'll Land Sometime

CW:)

[Stationair8]

When did the penguin runs stop early 90's.

They were certainly in force when did my IFR rating in the late 80's.

Captain Wally did the Dove have a glass cockpit?

[Capt Wally]

stationair8 I'm not too sure when the duck runs stopped, I left about 10 yrs ago now but I did hear it slowly faded out some time after that.

............Captain Wally did the Dove have a glass cockpit? oh yes mate glass everywhere, even on the front of the steam driven guages !:ok:

Of all the planes I've had a drive of the DH104 was probably the most challenging from start up to parking the big beast after a flight, was fun now that I can go back in my mind to days when pilots probably learnt the most:)


CW

[flying-spike]

I'll second that. No toe brakes, just differential pedal and the brake lever on the column. Even the different "Riley" configurations presented hassles with switches in different spotsand being a pommy plane modded by the yanks half the switches were up for on and the others were down for on. That is a problem when some of them you have to feel for (landing light, taxi light?). But loved flying them anyway. They made you earn M's measly bucks.

[Stationair8]

By the sounds of it he employed the finest pilots money could by, treated you like his own children, let you fly his aeroplanes and then you shoot through at the first opportunity. No loyalty or respect from pilots.

[Capt Wally]

.........................."They made you earn M's measly bucks"

'FS'............ that says it all !:ok:


CW

[Stationair8]

So what you are saying is that the boss Sir M wouldn't eat raspberry jam, because he would be too tight pass the pips?

[Howard Hughes]

I just came across this (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/de-havilland-dove_W0QQitemZ130249710056QQihZ003QQcategoryZ102702QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), it is so sad! :{

While I never got to fly the old girl, she was always part of life at Essendon when I was training and for many years after...:ok:

[Capt Wally]

Oh boy 'HH' I am almost crying here to see the old girl up for sale at a price that would be around 10000000000000 times more than she's worth!:bored:
If the price had have been more realistic I might have thought about buying my old steed & making a cubby house out of it but then again small children wouldn't be safe in it even with the wings off !:bored:
Many fond memories in ABM, RIP both ABM & NBM.
Now they where real planes!
Tnxs 'HH' for bring a tear to me eye:{

CW

[yowie]

Sad, looks like the third Dove that was bought in at the same time as ABM and NBM were landed in oz. Where is NBM? And what ever happened to DTZ?:}

[Howard Hughes]

It is actually ABM, which was the first I think!

Perhaps we should all chip in, buy it, put it back together then stick it on a pole at the entrance to EN!:ok:

[Capt Wally]

geeez 'HH' putting ABM up on a pole would mean certain danger, I was lucky to keep it & NBM airborne with both engines running never lone stand under it engines stopped up on a pole mate!:}

'Yowie' last I saw of NBM was up at Wallan (now closed) I took some pix of it in a very sad state. Out of the two NBM was the worst (if that was possible) The modified tail was awful. DTZ? well not too sure what happened to that old C310 either. The owner of DTZ whom I shall not mention here is a great guy, he got 'used' like a lot of others did. Of all the planes I've ever flown the DH104's where the sweetest handling, shame the Eg's I actually flew where the worst known to mankind maint wise:bored:


CW

[Muff Hunter]

i think one of the doves is at YMMB . saw it there a few years ago...don't know now though..

ahh the duck runs, rekon i killed half the world pop of rabbitts at ypid

[Mr Milk]

The dove at mmb was ABM which is now for sale at an unreasonable price.
What fun the whole operation sounds like. pity it was before my time at pid, but i did meet MM on a few occasions- what a character along with my old friend Sandy.

[flying-spike]

MM, still owes me about $6k. I would take ABM as part payment!

[porch monkey]

Hahahahah. Good Luck!!!:ugh:

[yowie]

And he would still owe you 6K! Plus removal cost!:} Must admit I got all my entitlements, plus some pretty good experience for a young(ish) bloke getting started:ok:

[flying-spike]

I must admit the flying was good experience although MM was the closest thing to "Arfur Daley" that has ever existed in Australian aviation.

[Capt Wally]

Remember MM standing in front of the dove whilst you sorted yourself out giving a pax brief to a dozen non speaking Japs inc life jackets etc & all, getting the courage up to once again defy death all the time MM was waving frantically to get going, no air pressure 'till you where just reaching the holding point & if you didn't have enough you trailed a leg or two for a little while praying like hell that those 800 gee gees didn't quit!!! Charactor building, shame there wasn't any wealth building in it.
Vh-STP the old Sneca 11 another piece of junk, the things we flew to gain a few miserbale twin hrs:-)
And the final laugh MM recycled the cheap champers back into the bottle for the next flight 2moro!:E


CW

[yowie]

:ok:I never had the pleasure, but wasnt STP a Seneca 1? Must admit also the Great Ocean road runs where heaps of fun, landing in the paddock at Peterborough was a highlight!

[Chief galah]

In the hay days of the penguin flights, (early nineties) I remember MM would cobble together up to 12 aircraft for the PID run. Anything spare on the field would do.
We'd fire them out in a line, then about 10pm see them coming up the coast, all wanting city orbits and all calling out of sequence.
Just a case of turning chaos into absolute chaos.
Those were the days!

CG

[Capt Wally]

'Yowie" STP was a Sneca 11, am sure of that but am willing to be corrected, old age explains a lot:ok:
Also remember landing at Peterborough with the fence still up? MM had to pay for it to be taken down for ldg, many a time I would arive & the fence was still up!!! not too sure of the LDA but uphill was just ok down hill was real man stuff, still the old Doves stalled @ around 60 kts, no such thing as 1.3 vs with those old girls:ok:
Learnt heaps way back then, not too sure if such 'exoeriences' are still out there.

RIP the old duck runs, & the old EN 26 twin loc, dreamed it up 'cause MM's Doves only had stick on ILS's cut straight from an aviation mag, top line stuff of course:E

CW

[Stationair8]

Are Capt Wally they were the days when men were men, boys were boys and poofs were something you put your feet on after a hard day at the office and the little woman was busy preparing your tea.

Just think no GPS's, no glass cockpits, no HSI's, no RMI's, no Flight Directors, no autopilots, a very basic panel, pommie ergonomics at its best and in those days you still a proper ATC/FSU system.

Whatever to Ted Rudge's Doves?

[Capt Wally]

yeah Ted's old doves have well & truely gone bush. Apart from the one that modified a few peoples back yards years ago am not too sure where the rest have gone but I think they are buried somewhere in the back of his hanger, gathering dust no doubt. They where original Doves unlike MM's his where the old Riley conversions, how to make an ugly plane more ugly !:)
Seeing as we are on a roll here I can recall EN twr one day say to me after T/off rwy 17 yr gear is still down, at times one used up all the air pressure just getting to the holding point & little was left to pull the gear up 'till around Flemington racecourse, by then you had the old girls cleaned up & steaming full ahead for PID:ok: A doz japs all talking jiba jabba & smiling like there's no 2moro, oh boy if they only knew, second hand champers & by the will of God we all went sth to enjoy the penguins, had some fun though even used to take my R/C glider down to PID to slope soar off the cliff face, & to think we got paid for that, well thought we where !:E


CW

[Stationair8]

The global economy at work, Japanese tourists, Aussie Pilot, Pommie airframe, American engines and Middle East Fuel powering the beast!

Wasn't one of Rudges Doves the last one built at Hatfeild?

[Critical Reynolds No]

Word is ABM was "donated" to a museum after years sitting on the grass at YMMB. Surprised it has ended up on ebay after an act of good faith (ducks, weaves)!:ok:

[Capt Wally]

Donated hey? I don't think MM would know how to spell 'donated':}
Am not surprised it's back in pvt hands (assuming here).
Still I think the current owner is dreaming wanting that high price for essentially scrap metal.

CW:)

[yowie]

CW,
I believe you are right, does CRT ring a bell re the 34-1? As I said I never had the pleasure but knew the few that did! I remember your R/C adventures, and the the pleasures of dining on frozen TV dinners with yourself, JT, GS, AB etc:ok:

[Capt Wally]

stop it yowie yr bringing me to tears now:{

oh well a blast from the past, they where at times the good 'ole days

CW:ok:

[yowie]

CW,
Mate you always remember the good times, like RM walking the pax back after the gear collapse on the 402?( wasnt there but was legend). SR wanting every last dollar. Ah the memories:ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Geez Wally, where's me violin!

Dr :8

[Stationair8]

How many punters did you carry in the Dove, Capt Wally?

Don't forget the joys of a fully castoring nosewheel, pneumatic brakes, and that big rudder flapping about as you taxied downwind.

[Capt Wally]

hey Dr I actually play the guitar, never could figure out that whingin' violin thingy:ok: How's the 'wobbler' plane going ?:) I bet that bent one (A36)elsewhere in here brought tears to yr eyes:bored:

'S8' a Doz pax in the Dove, 'MM' cried when it wasn't full! T
Try 6 pax in the AC500, cosy that's 4 sure!

Yes the joys of that castering nose wheel hence no air pressure left on a windy at once at the holding point! That coupled with 800 gee gees coming on song (if you where lucky)during T/off dancing on the rudder pedals the whole way down Sandy's strip at night with around one blown out candle per mile only to have the jap sitting beside you (12 pax meant one up front) take a pix with flash of you trying to keep everybody alive !!
Going off rwy 22 into the inky black night on instruments that ought to be in a kids playground toy plane was charactor building, hence there aint nufin' out there that would scare me now:E
Yowie it feels like a hundred years ago now but I still recall "S" chasing a warrior down his rwy in his old white XD wagon trying to collect the $5 bucks ldg fee during a touch & go for the plane, talk about an angry man!
Too many stories to tell, am sure other readers don't want to hear it all here.

[Stationair8]

Yeah they reckon old Sandy didn't have jam on his toast because he would to tight to pass the pips.
Wonder what happened to old BPZoom his mighty C402A?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

what happened to old BPZoom

Ohhhh! Got a bit excited when I read that .......... but no! A check of the log book revealed it was sistership BPX that I flew many years ago.

Dr :8

[BULLDOG 248]

Good god. Old BPZ. That was the 1st A/C I flew that had a WX Radar in it. Still remember the make...RCA. Not that it ever worked:{ Anyone know if it still flies.
I do remember the day sandy hit a tyre at YPHI which got picked up by 1 prop....bounced under the fuselage and into the other prop....He was not a happy man. Landing fees, cheese/crayfish/flying lesson prices all went up. And the soap in the dunny got watered down even more.

[EC120]

So does any one know where Steve the Rat is these days ??

[Capt Wally]

'EC' do you mean Woody?

Good 'ole BPZ, I believe it had some 'self made' wing spar strap mods done to it, & I wonder who might have done that?:E Still days gone by now & we can only rem about them.:) Just a quicky here story wise:-)

One foggy/misty/damp night on the Is I taxied out in old STP (Sneca 2) with a load of japs on board & in typical Piper fashion tail down nose high whilst taxying (I started from outside the hanger) with all but zero in the way of landing lights to guide me to the rwy. With a foggy screen I poked the large torch I had out the storm vent window to keep an eye on the muddy edge of the taxyway. After what seemed like ages watching that edge with the torch beam like an eagle so as not to get bogged or lost I ended up right back where I had started from, done a complete circle back to outside the hanger!:confused: Sheeeez i cursed a certain person who owned the airport for having those piddly little 12v taxi lights placed in upside down juice bottles doing zip in the way of guiding anybody. I made over 300 ldg's there at the Is over the years & not once did I bend a plane, killed a few of the native species tho!

memories, oh well like this thread they too will stop one day


CW



CW

[flying-spike]

I remember about 9 a/c departing using the reflector tape on the tyres for runway lights when the others refused to work. No responsible persons on the ground.....we were all in the aircraft!

[BULLDOG 248]

Good one CW. I remember departing there one night with waggle of all sorts: Navajo's, Chieftains, Seneca, Baron, C-310, C-402, PN-68, Aztec, Doves, Seminole and even a Nomad. If you were trying not to get bogged during winter, you still coudn't see out the window during summer because of the dust. Through good flying and in some cases good luck, everyone seemed to get home to YMMB and YMEN safely??? I'm sure there are some other stories there???
I heard second hand of a guy who on his 1st DUCK RUN ex YMMB departed YPHI to the south on dark overcast night and once airbourne was observed drifting way,way,way left of the rwy centre line, then made a left hand turn thru 180 degrees and proceeded towards Geelong. I dont know how far he got but his boss wasn't to happy with the EXTRA 30 min being clocked up on the AIRSWITCH:{

[ACMS]

I did a couple of Penguin runs to PID from about 1985 to 90. Fun trip, damn black hole after T/O though ( as Capt Wally said above )

We used a PA31 or a C402.

Nice thread, brings back some good memories.

I took my family to the Penguin Parade about 2 years ago, nice setup now.

[Best Rate]

I worked for Sandy doing jolly's in his c172 WLY over the Summer of 94/95, and a bit longer... I was also refuelling and ground supporting BPZ on the RPT and selling crays in the shop. Approaching the end of my stint, Sandy started my C401/402 training in RZY(think that was the callsign), the C401 which was a nice gesture.

Anyway, I completed the engineering paper and we went through that etc. but unfortunately, the flap motor died halway through the 2nd endorsement flight and 'that was that'...

I myself was charged with the power of driving the mighty ford wagon around the bounds of the field, in search of those elusive beach visitors! A pleasant man to work for and fond memories, that's for sure. And always had a keen ear out listening and learning from the guys doing the Pengie runs!

The resident pussy was "Cessna" and he was good company too...

Cheers to those good unadulterated days and the guys and gals that were a part of them,

BR :ok:

[Capt Wally]

geez 'BR' am all teary eyed now:{ You took yr own life into yr hands driving that old sh*t heap (XD) anywhere mate!:E Although to the owners credit he did let us take it to the fish & chip shop at times:)
I remember 'Cessna', couldn't catch a mouse if it was handed to it in a cage !:)One lazy cat!
Fun times where we didn't seem to have a care in the world:ok:

CW:ok:

[flying-spike]

Anybody posting here around when the road to the airport was blocked when a copper was run over after the Grand Prix('88). I did a few trips in the Chieftain on the day for Flinders Island and then backed up with the Dove ferrying the Channel 9 crew. Because we couldn't depart til the road cleared and our pax arrived we didn't depart until very late. Most busted flight and duty times. CAA didn't care just said get back to the smoke as best we could. Ended up in Tulla instead of Essendon after hosting a very tired and emotional channel 9 "celeb" (who wears a Dr Hook hat) while we waited in Sandy's waiting room. That was a long but fun day.

[BULLDOG 248]

I did a trip from YPHI to YWYY one day with a load of Japs in a PA-31-310 only to find my passengers laughing and pointing to the back luggage comp. about 1/2 way across Bass Straight. Here's Cessna in the back having a nice old sleep. 1000 pictures later, we dropped the passengers off and returned to YMMB via YPHI to drop off old Cessna. I think Sandy still tried to charge me a landing fee for returning his cat.
I heard later I was not the 1st to take Cessna for a fly.

[yowie]

CW,
I just bogged it, had the pax helping to push back, man what a hoot:ok:

[uncle8]

was sold to a private collector/museum at Rupanyup. It left Wallan, on a truck,early 2007.
BTW Wallan is no longer an aerodrome. It is now "Wallara Waters" a new housing sub division.

[Capt Wally]

The last time I walked thru NBM at Wallan 'uncle8' I saw a sad sight, deralict.
The last time I flew it wasn't that much different either!:bored:
Am not surprised Sir M (as he thought he was) is being chased by yet another maint organisation, he knew 'em all by default!


CW

[DanS333]

Hi Guys,
I know this is a long since dead thread but thought i would share these pick of the Penguin express as she stands today, very sad state indeed(though some might argue she hasnt changed 1 bit!)
http://dh104preservation.webs.com/photos/The-Richard-Winterburn-Collection/003-20(640x481)-1.jpg
http://dh104preservation.webs.com/photos/undefined/engine-20003.jpg

[DanS333]

one more
http://dh104preservation.webs.com/photos/undefined/engine-20002.jpg

Cheers, Dan
DH.104 Dove Preservation Group (http://dh104preservation.webs.com/)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/DH104-Dove-Preservation-Group/523574834358937

[Aye Ess]

My painting....

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/DoveVH-ABMjpeg_zps171ff90b.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/alan_spears/media/DoveVH-ABMjpeg_zps171ff90b.jpg.html)

[over_centre]

Wally et al

Just wondering . . . how did the gear selector work in the Dove's (and Heron's)?

Looks like a 'push pull' arrangement. I understand the gear is pneumatic so selector must be some sort of valve?? :confused:

[Rotor Work]

Interesting read,
A couple of budding young pilots helped Sandy, unload, refuel & reload for several months at YWYY on his weekend flights, Come Grand Prix time we both flew a 172 each to YPHI, got charged landing fees & then for each POB,
For our assistance at YWYY, Sandy had offered us a bed, which turned out to be the YPHI hangar floor.
For some reason we didn't help Sandy out after that!
As mentioned by flying - spyke, the 88 Grand Prix was the the one where the policeman was run over,
Some more memories,
I walked to the local shop the first night for tea, it was dark, I heard a guy talking, I said, is that you Stretch & it was (Stretch acca Jeremy flew the Jetstar 787 to Australia recently).
On race day I said to my co 172 Aviator that I would meet him at 1:30pm beside a grandstand on the main straight, he was no where to be seen until I heard his voice from the grandstand, I said how did you get up there, his reply, just walked past the security, I said no way, just then the Roulette's started their display, I walked past the security as they watched the routine, perfect seats on the main straight for the G.P.
On the way out of the track walking back to the Airport I asked a guy driving a RAAF flat tray truck if we could get a lift back to the Airport, no worries was his reply, due to the traffic we stopped & started many times, by the time we got to the Airport the truck tray tray was full of guys, I decided to pass the hat around & emptied the money into the guys lap, he was happy.

It was a brilliant weekend, (not for the policeman)
One that will never be forgotten, and sleeping in the 172 wasn't fun!
Loved the story about the cat:)
R W

[Wally Mk2]

Having a bit of a chuckle over this thread. This was my first alias before the Mods banned me for life under the old name 'CW':bored:

'AE' ya gotta stop bringing that piccy of my painting out buddy, every time I see it here I go & take the original off the wall & let a tear fall:{

'O_C' yeah the U/C lever was a push pull affair as I recall. You pushed the centre button then put a couple of fingers under the little 'wings' of the selector & pulled it out to select the gear up. With ABM & NBM the ones I used to drive you always checked the air pressure gauge first located lower L/H corner of the sub inst panel, you can see the triple indicator dial in the photo/s here 'cause after some extensive taxing around prior to T/Off using the air press for brakes you had bugger all press left to pull the gear up. A few times am sure the guys in EN Twr must have thought he's 4gotten to pull the gear up after T/off but I was sitting there at full pwr stroking my Rosary beads hoping like hell that a donk didn't quit all the while watching the air press gauge slowly build up press to retract the gear..........the old Doves had more oil in the pneumatic system than air I think !:-)
Those days you gained balls of steel whether you liked it or not:ok:

'RW' that doesn't surprise me at all about Sandy......so many stories about him there's not enuf ink my keyboard here to tell all:E

Wmk2 (former CW):ok:

[DanS333]

it was the U/C lever that contributed to Teds woes in DHD as well. a few years later i was flying with Ted out of YQNS in DHI and i enthusiasticly pulled on the lever only for them not to retract, Ted said "too fast"

Cheers, Dan

[Wally Mk2]

Ah 'DS333" I remember that night well.
If I recall Ted didn't get the prop feathered so really didn't follow std eng fail proc's. The flaps on a Dove are like barn doors & they where left down during the entire sequence if my memory serves me correctly. The gear was a real pain at times to get pulled up.
They where lucky the old Dove stalled at 60 kts or so & with a large lumbering airframe the crash sequence would have been like in slow motion.

As a side note I seem to recall the TV series 'Flying Doctors' had DHD in one of it's shows.


Wmk2

[PLovett]

Wal, a quick question. Looking at that painting it appears that the donks' had been replaced with something more modern. What powered the beastie? :confused:

[Centaurus]

Ah 'DS333" I remember that night well.
If I recall Ted didn't get the prop feathered so really didn't follow std eng fail proc's. The flaps on a Dove are like barn doors & they where left down during the entire sequence if my memory serves me correctly. The gear was a real pain at times to get pulled up.
They where lucky the old Dove stalled at 60 kts or so & with a large lumbering airframe the crash sequence would have been like in slow motion.


The BASIS report was most thorough and should still, in my view, be mandatory reading for all multi-engine flying instructors conducting initial twin training. The report said the take off charts were for a zero flap take off whereas the pilot used partial flap because that was what he was taught on his conversion. Also from memory, the windmilling drag from the failed engine prop was more than the drag experienced with gear extended.

The relatively successful outcome was because of the swift action by the pilot to reduce power on the live engine, thus avoiding a VMCA stall - in other words, he hit the roof of the first house with wings almost level which dissipated the energy by the time the aircraft hit the second house roof.

The report said later tests indicated an aborted in flight landing straight ahead on the remaining runway would have probably resulted in an over-run on to the Tullamarine Freeway. These flight tests done overseas at the request of BASIS revealed that a surprising amount of remaining runway is required to lose an engine shortly after lift off, have a reaction time delay of four seconds before bunting over to touch down in a flapless configuration and then apply brakes.

It was also found very difficult for a pilot to judge when actually airborne if there was sufficient runway to abort and land back on straight ahead particularly at night and pull up. Worse still if the runway surface was wet with rain resulting in loss of braking action..

The current teaching at most flying schools for engine failure still calls for a lengthy series of actions before getting around to feathering the prop. For example a typical brief is mixture up, pitch up, power up, flap up, gear up, identify dead leg dead side, confirm by slowly closing the throttle then finally feather.

That is all very fine with engine failure at a safe cruising altitude, but after lift off, unless the prop is feathered promptly as first action, then the windmilling drag will result in so much drag that speed loss is certain. Also, if the take off performance lift off speed is predicated on take off flap, to select flap up at a very low altitude before feathering will likely cause a sink rate unless adequate speed exists to allow for attitude adjustment.

It takes at least 15 seconds to get around to feathering a dead prop if the pilot goes through the whole drill dead leg - dead side etc, before actuating the feather system. That becomes a significant delay if the engine has failed soon after getting airborne. Flying schools should ensure students are aware of the vital difference in the speed at which a student must get the failed prop feathered during handling an engine failure shortly after lift off, as against a safe height where a more leisurely deliberate action is available and even an attempt at re-starting the engine.

Inevitably, there are a few seconds of "dead man's gap" immediately after lift off where the pilot has no choice except to land straight head and hope to pull up safely. That is why it is best to select gear up on attaining a positive rate of climb after lift off and thus accelerate more quickly through those few seconds, rather than deliberately leave the gear down with its attendant increased drag in case you want to land straight ahead.

Slight thread drift but the Ted Rudd Dove accident at Essendon is a fascinating study of an engine failure on take off and superb handling by the pilot to make a controlled crash with no serious casualties. Read the full report and learn a lot from it.

[Wally Mk2]

Yeah 'Plov' there was a well known conversion for the dove & the Heron for that matter 'Reily conversions' to convert the power-plants to more modern units, Lyc's to be exact. The original Dove with the old Queens had 400 gee gee's if I recall as did the Lyc IO720 flat 8 so HP didn't change. The Heron had IO540's with around 275HP (don't quote me just a ruff guess) much like the AC50 planes.
In fact the other old Dove I used to drive VH NBM had a more modern fin on it also, prick of a thing to track straight down the Rwy 'till the airflow increased over it, never did find out what it came off but looked much like a Cessna type fin/rudder & even the main cabin door opened outward needing a ladder to get in & out of the cabin unlike the Dove in the painting (VHABM) which had an airstair door.
Lots of Mods over the years on the old Doves, they flew the best of any airframe I ever had the pleasure to drive:ok:

'Centy' just saw yr post now. I'll go find the official report for a read.
The old Dove didn't need flaps for T/Off unless the strip was very short or had other factors that looked threatening so unless any Flt manual stipulated flaps for T/off I would never consider them at all for the very reason/s you mention above.
Once full flap was selected 40 deg's I think it was for Ldg you where going to do just that land, no going around in a Dove unless you have lots of height avail. I always considered once you where below 500 ft you where going down one way or another.

Wmk2

[rnuts]

A few points to note with Ted's crash.
The engine failure wasn't instant therefore Ted initially thought he had partial power available.
That anti retraction poppet was woeful at best.
You had to pull the gear lever out slowly or you'd catch it every time, which is not ideal in an emergency situation of course.
With regards to zero flap.
I remember Ted talking about problems with zero flap takeoff approval from the authorities at the time. Can't for the life of me remember why though.
Something that sticks in my mind was after crashing into half the damn neighborhood, the aircraft is destroyed with the cockpit almost completely torn off. Ted still secured the aircraft IE mags off, fuel off etc. professional to the end.:D:ok:

[DanS333]

Ted did a fantasic job gettin everyone out alive:D, he did think it was a parcial power loss, its all in the report. the engine windmilled at a suprisingly high RPM the main clue was ther was no boost, i remeber ted telling me that it was like someone pulled the throttle half back and he check to see if it was still up. as for the flaps, the flight manual stated 10 degrees flap for takeoff, this changed after the crash. tuff old bird those Doves, would not have liked to see the out come if it were a PA31 or C414
Cheers, Dan
for those who did not see the DHD crash I will reluctantly put up these pics.


http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/27/21/114262127/photos/undefined/img-116110943-small.jpghttp://memberfiles.freewebs.com/27/21/114262127/photos/undefined/img-116111127small.jpghttp://memberfiles.freewebs.com/27/21/114262127/photos/undefined/img-116111349small.jpg

[Wally Mk2]

Tnxs for the pix Dan.
If I recall there where only two flap settings for the Dove, 20 degs & 40 deg's meaning 20 deg's was the only flap setting used for T/off (if at all) I don't recall 10 deg's although maybe the Riley conversion Doves (the ones I drove) where modded. Happy to be corrected as it was a year or two ago now that I shoe horned myself into one of the most UN-ergonomically designed cockpits!

I did a bit of YouTube searching & it was indeed DHD used in a episode of the 'Flying Doctors' TV series:-) God that is a corny show now when I look back at it:):)



Wmk2

[DanS333]

Hi Wally, I you are correct about the 20 degrees, my dam sausage fingers!
I have DHD's flight manual at home. i will scan the page with TO config and post here when i get a chance. I will look up youtube for the FD ep with DHD.....hang on i need another blade off the wind mill:) and was that Broken Hill or Hopper Crossing!:}
Cheers, Dan

[Wally Mk2]

Coopers Crossing Dan, Coopers:ok:

Glad it was 20 deg's as I know I'm old & dumb but didn't quite wanna accept that just yet:ok:


Wmk2

[DanS333]

Drifting ever more from topic, VH-MSF is in Malaysia now, wonder if it is out searching for a certain T7.
Cheers, Dan
http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/1/3/2/7/31508_1169553723.jpg

[flying-spike]

Bad memories of taking off in NBM with asymmetric flap, 20 on the right and forty on the left.. A bitch to control and very interesting circui

[Centaurus]

If I recall Ted didn't get the prop feathered so really didn't follow std eng fail proc's

Depends on what you called standard engine failure procedures. In fact Ted did use the correct sequence of procedures commonly taught (rightly or wrongly) in todays flying schools as a generic drill.
Engine fails..control the yaw...mixture, pitch controls and throttle forward.....flap up....gear up....identify the failed engine ... confirm by slowly closing dead engine throttle...feather. On some types cut mixture then feather.

Ted had immediate problem with retracting the flaps and gear together due system design. At 50 feet agl he had insufficient runway left to land ahead, plus the prospect of falling over the edge on to the Tullamarine Freeway if he went off the end of 17. In the few seconds he had with all that drag and airspeed rapidly decaying at the same time, he never had the time to go through the luxury of mixture/pitch and power up, and never mind slowly closing the dead throttle, before he reduced power on the good engine to level the wings before bouncing off the roof of the first house and into the second house.

The current sequence of drills taught for many years may be fine for cruise flight but ignores the fact that a windmilling prop gives more drag than an extended landing gear in some types. Thus the common sequence of drills may be inappropriate for an engine failure shortly after lift-off where prompt feathering action is vital and even more so before the RPM of the failed engine is allowed to decay to the extent that feathering is not possible.

In the limited time between the engine failing just after lift off from runway 17 at Essendon and the time of first impact, coupled with neither the gear or flaps would retract initially, then the Dove was going nowhere but down.

Immediate feathering before all the other items may (doubtful in this particular case) have saved the day. However, that is being wise after the event; particularly in view of the commonly taught sequence of actions which gives feathering as the last item on the list of an engine failure.

Curses. Just realised my original Post 86 written two months ago is similar to this one. How time flies on Pprune! Didn't see it before penning this lot. Apologies. Old age catching up.

[DanS333]

No Apologies needed Centaurus,
Reading the BASI report with all the Flight testing they did in the US they totally removed pilot error as a cause. don't know if they were trying to blame Ted or just very thorough in clearing him but BASI must have spent some serious coin in that investigation.
Cheers, Dan

[DanS333]

Twenty or forty Flap or both




Bad memories of taking off in NBM with asymmetric flap, 20 on the right and
forty on the left.. A bitch to control and very interesting circuit


their was a Devon in NZ in 2006 that didn't end well, though it had a failure that caused one flap to retract on approach.
RNZAF Devons | Wings Over New Zealand (http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/1726?page=2)
proof of the fantastic job you did, especially give you were flying NBM with that stupid riley fin:D

Cheers, Dan

[flying-spike]

Thanks Dan. Not withstanding my own failures on the day it is a perfect case of an organisational accident. Lots of holes lining up in the cheese. Fortunately I managed to plug the last one. Sh1ts were trumps!

[Stationair8]

Just as a matter of interest Flying-Spike what actually caused the flap problem in the Dove?

[DanS333]

"Maintenance Error"
Investigation: 198902316 - De Havilland DH104, VH-NBM, Essendon VIC, 17 March 1989 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1989/aair/aair198902316.aspx)

Cheers, Dan

[flying-spike]

I haven't read that (but about to!) one of Notty's boys Murphy'd the hoses. He was very apologetic and was straight out to the aircraft when I landed.

[flying-spike]

When I arrived the act was down at the hangar. When I got there the battery and air bottle were out pending payment for the work. Back to the hangar for one of "sir's" rubber cheques then back to pick up the acft.
Ground run and functional check without stopping at 20 deg (would have picked up the asymmetry if we had). Flap indicator is only connected to right flap and you can't see how much is out from the cockpit.
Because I was late I was last in the line of aircraft taxiing for the island so nobody behind me to notice. The plug in the cheese? I read in the crash comic of a Heron in Fiji that crashed with a similar problem and wondered what I could do in a similar event. There was a different cause but same symptoms.
It took fully crossed aileron, a boot load of rudder and asymmetric power to turn. I didn't pull the gear up or touch the flap for fear of losing more air pressure and lose control. I took full flap over the threshold and it evened up and to top it off had a completely unrelated electrical fire up through the throttle quadrant on the roll through.
A bad day at the office!

[dhavillandpilot]

Having many hours in Herons I can sympathise with you on the asymmetric flap.

The Heron in Fiji was one flap completely up with the other extended to 40 degrees.

The reason was that a connecting bolt in the flap system was installed with the nut at the top, so when the nut undid the bolt simply fell out causing the split flap.

My American friend who had owned the aircraft some 3 year earlier was sued unsuccessfully for the accident.

Luck he was able to provide that Sunflower had done the maintenance.

[DanS333]

As I stated before Flying Spike, you did very well and i dare say not many others would have been successful:D given that the Riley vertical stabiliser actually reduced rudder authority made it all the more impressive! I am hopefully going to see NBM in her current(and possibly Final!) resting location this month. Will post some pics to bring back those fond(horrifying) memories.:)
P.S I assume you also flew ABM. rest assured she is as well equipped now as she was when in operation

Cheers, Dan
http://dh104preservation.webs.com/photos/undefined/engine-20003.jpg

[Wally Mk2]

That photo 'DS3' looks just like the last day I flew the old girl only better even with the Left Eng Mag still left on, these didn't need turning off anyway as it was near impossible to get these things going instantly anyway so having them start with a live Mag just by slightly moving the prop would have been impossible!:-)!:)

Where is NBM these days? That was the worst of the two (if that's possible):-)

Wmk2

[DanS333]

She is with a collector in central Vic that saved her from the scrap heap, and this will make you laugh, MM promised a heap more Dove bits and pieces in the purchase price that never arrived.:* shocked?:ooh:

Cheers, Dan

[Wally Mk2]

.............geee Sir 'MM' would never say/do such a thing, nah you must be mistaken there 'Dan' I mean nothing ever gets past Sir 'MM' without another avenue for more $$$, he'll sell the extra bits to a blind man saying here feel that green serviceable tag?:E
A few times old Sandy at PID said when next you fly in bring a check from 'Sir MM' otherwise you won't be able to stay, those flights usually yielded the best landings as the 'rubber' check helped cushioned the arrival:-)
So are both ABM & NBM at the same resting place then?

Wmk2

[Centaurus]

Isn't amazing how one photo can bring back instant recall of event(s) of over 60 years ago? I'm talking about the pneumatic brake pressure gauge seen in the bottom left of the remains of that Dove instrument panel.

Many British designed aircraft had identical brake pressure gauges such as that one. The big needle read the total remaining compressed air in the brake system and the two smaller gauges display brake air pressure to individual main wheels. The Canberra bomber, Spitfire and Hurricane, Hawker Sea Fury, and Lancaster bomber were many of the types that used compressed air brakes. The brakes in the Lincoln were the same. (photo of Lincoln from photobucket did not turn out, curses)

I had just joined No 10 (Maritime Reconnaissance) Squadron at Townsville to fly Lincolns for the next two years. Having previously flown Tiger Moths which had no wheel brakes but a tail skid that once tore through the Senior Air Traffic Controllers veggie patch under the control tower at Uranquinty NSW which really upset him. His name was Squadron Leader Harry Connolly DFC DFM - a portly chap with a Navigator's wing and a couple of rows of campaign ribbons on his chest and prone to outbursts when excited or upset. While taxing solo in the Moth I was weaving the nose to avoid the last known position of his veggie garden when I found it OK, the tail skid being an effective hoe. Harry called me "that Horrible Pilot Officer Centaurus" after that.

Anyway, I digress. In 1953, Townsville had three runways with runway 07 being awfully short at 4000 feet and the extended centre line being over the suburb of Belgian Gardens. At the time of this event runway 02 was out of action. My CO Wing Commander John Handbury AFC (former wartime Hudson pilot against the Japs) called me to his office and said the Officer Commanding North-Eastern Area Australia was coming in to fly a Lincoln on continuation training that afternoon and I was to be his second dickey (co-pilot). OC NE Area was Group Captain Patrick "Paddy" Heffernan OBE AFC and his HQ was in Townsville.

Paddy walked with a distinct limp caused by one leg being shorter than the other, the result of a mid-air collision at night in a Wellington bomber over England. He was thrown from his Wellington during the impact and landed heavily by parachute into a farmer's field. The rest of the crews of the two bombers did not survive the mid-air. Despite grievous injuries caused by striking the fuselage of his Wellington as it broke apart, Paddy regained his flying status several years later towards the end of the SW Pacific campaign against Japanese forces. At Townsville, we had a Mustang A68-113 for target towing air to air gunnery practice and Paddy would occasionally leave his desk and fly the Mustang as well as the unit Dakota and Lincoln. However with his gammy leg he baulked at flying the unit Wirraway which could be a bugger to land in a crosswind. He was a short pilot as was I, and it soon became obvious the blind was leading the blind when taking off and landing the Mk 31 Long Nose Lincoln.

The pilot's seat in the Lincoln was on a raised pedestal while the occupant of the right hand fold-down dickey seat sat a lot lower. The pilot had a shoulder harness but the right seat man only had a lap strap. As the Lincoln, like the Lancaster, was designed to be flown by one pilot, the right seat could be stowed away against the cockpit wall or used for a passenger, pilot, airman or whoever. After engine start Paddy taxied the Lincoln for take off on runway 07. The long nose prevented a view over the nose and like the Mustang and indeed a Tiger Moth, the pilot was forced to weave left and right to clear the area directly ahead. Night-time taxing was indeed a nightmare. Each weave meant brake use and at idle RPM on the No 3 engine that ran the air compressor, there wasn't enough RPM to effectively charge the lost air pressure. After Paddy had done a few touch and go circuits on 07, he announced that the next landing would be a flapless full stop. I had never seen a flapless in a Lincoln and was therefore taken aback when Paddy said he would don his shoulder straps for this landing.

As there was no shoulder straps for the dickey seat, this looked like a potential Mayday situation to me; especially as I had no idea what speed over the fence would be used. In fact, Paddy used about 125 knots which, as it turned out, was well in excess of what was published in Pilot's Notes Lincoln. The Pilots Notes at page 45 said: Quote: "Flapless Landings. The initial approach should be made at 115 knots IAS. Little power is needed to maintain this speed. The approach is flat with a nose-up attitude but control remains satisfactory. Considerable tail down trim my be needed and care must be exercised if it is necessary to go around again. Aim to cross the airfield boundary at 105-110 knots. Power should not be reduced suddenly as this results in a high rate of sink. The aircraft can be brought to rest within 2000 yards with moderate use of the brakes" Unquote.

2000 yards is about 6000 feet and 07 was only 4000 feet. I don't think Paddy had read his Pilot's Notes. I was only a mere 21 year old sergeant with barely 300 hours and even if I knew about the landing length needed for a flapless - which I didn't - it was not the done thing in those days to offer handling advice to a highly experienced hoary old group captain. We crossed the threshold fast and floated and floated and floated. Being a tail wheel aircraft you could not spike it on the runway otherwise there would be a huge bounce and go-around.

We finally hit the deck in three points with no forward vision and Paddy and I both threw open our respective side windows and shoved our goggled heads way out in the airstream to see where we were going. That was common practice on the Long Nose. In addition, short pilots sometimes loosened their lap strap and stood up with toes on the rudder bars like a jockey riding a horse, in order to get a better view over the nose. Paddy tried that but with one leg shorter than the other it meant he was not getting even braking. He would never have passed even a CASA Class 2 medical nowadays...
With heavy pneumatic braking accompanied by lots of hissing as the brake pressure rapidly depleted, the Lincoln came to a stop right at the end of 07. The brake bags on one wheel were burnt through and we had to be towed somewhat ingloriously for a Group Captain OBE AFC, back to the RAAF tarmac. We were lucky not to have over-run into the outskirts of Belgian Gardens. Now I knew why Paddy Heffernan used his shoulder harness. :E

So there is the story, brought back to life by seeing the triple needle pneumatic air- pressure gauge in the wreckage of the Dove cockpit.

[DanS333]

:ok: Centaurus, great yarn.
no WM2 different collector.Green, yellow, red is there any difference????
Looks serviceable to me;)
Cheers, Dan

[flying-spike]

A great yarn and without being disrespectful I'll quote Monty Python-"And you tell the you young people today that and they won't believe you"
Seriously, with even cockpit layouts of 50 years ago we can't imagine the skill it took to fly WWII era aircraft plus have somebody shooting at you while you do it. Magnificent Men (and Women).

[Critical Reynolds No]

ABM at Heathcote:
http://www.grubbyfingersshop.com/museums/heathcote_aircraft_museum/heathcote_aircraft_museum_dove_750px.jpg

Not sure about NBM but there appears to be another Dove at Heathcote. Anyone know which one? Doesn't appear to be a Riley conversion so rules out NBM.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/46915_275687895889600_911319545_n.jpg

These pics were 7 months ago. Look forward to your pics DanS333.

[DanS333]

Thanks for sharing your pics CRN
The other dove Dick has is VH-DHN ex NTMS
VH-DHN (http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austcl/VH-DHN.html)

NBM is with another collector whom asked me not to name him and I will respect his wishes, though he and his collection are well known.
Cheers, Dan

[DanS333]

As Promised
I could not get inside as the door latch has seized up and the emergency exit hatches are wired shut but looking through the windows i would say its about 95% complete inside, so a dare say hasn't change since it was flying.
Cheers, Dan
http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/99/05/110210599/photos/undefined/NBMedit.jpg

P.S She looks a lot less offensive without that Vertical Stab.

[DanS333]

Two More


The Offending Item!:eek:
http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/99/05/110210599/photos/undefined/NBMFIN.jpg

Another angle

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/99/05/110210599/photos/undefined/NBMREAR.jpg

[DanS333]

And lastly one from her (somewhat) better days
this photo is courtesy of Dick Winterburn

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/27/21/114262127/photos/undefined/img-116094506small.jpg


All these photos plus lots more at DH.104 Dove Preservation Group (http://dh104preservation.webs.com)

[Homesick-Angel]

Finally...FINALLY.. After all these years, I now know who to blame for sparking my interest in flying.:}
Pretty much any of you mob that flew in and out of YPID in the early to mid 80s.

My old man bought a tiny piece of land in Woolomai just back from the runway, and in those days there was barely anything there.

As a 7 or 8 year old, I would sit in the backyard wondering how the airplanes didn't crash into the cliff face, and I remember wondering why the engines stopped just before landing (of course you were at idle, i thought they stopped, but now I hear the reports of the equipment you were flying, perhaps I was right at the time.)

A mate's dad flew for royal Brunei airlines (I think thats what they were called?), and he'd come down with us on holidays and tell me all about this and that. I just sat there in awe and dreamed it was me flying. It took nearly 20 years until I followed up on that early awe, and took a TIF. Quite a few years later again, and its you guys I have to blame!:{

It can be easy to forget that awe sometimes, but I still cant take my eyes of a landing if i'm near a runway, I look up when aircraft flies overhead, and I always enjoy the view from the "office"...

:ok:

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

While I was working for AoT, Dave "Macca" McKenzie the Chief Engineer had put a proposal to management to replace the PA-31 Chieftains with Doves.

I presume they would have been converted to the Riley specs, to match the Herons.

There must have been a number of low time Doves that would become available in the UK in 1987/8?

The project was knocked back when, they won the Air Ambulance contract and they were going to use a PA-31.

[Wally Mk2]

'D333" thanks for the updated pix of old NBM, looks the same as when I last flew her, in fact looks cleaner!:E
It was the dog of the two (NBM & ABM), steered like a drunken wench 'till the airspeed came alive. That cabin door was a mongrel also, needed a step & was bloody dangerous in the wet.
It had turbo'd donks if I recall (manually controlled waste gates I think)but of course they where only for ballast:-)
The pix of NBM at MB there showed it had not been there long as the grass was short around it, sat there for yonks!

Wmk2

[DanS333]

CharlieLimaX-Ray, Sounds like it would have been a big undertaking, 87,88 was when the RAF and RN were disposing of their Devons.
2 Ex Royal Navy Sea Devons and 1 RAF C.2 Devon did come out, they were VH-DHI, DVE & EOB.
DHI happily is still flying,DVE is at Bankstown aviation museum in a really bad state after sitting sans GQ at Warnervale for many years and subsequently vandalised:*.
RAF Devon EOB was assembled at Mackay but never made it in to Australian skies, Sat there from 92 till 2012 when it was disassembled and trucked off to parts unknown(if you can help me out on this I would be very appreciative)

WM2,
It was in surprisingly good shape considering all those years at walan.
Also this was sitting behind it, Right wing and badly repaired stab off DHD:(
http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/99/05/110210599/photos/undefined/DHDwing.jpg


This is my oldman in the right seat of DHD, he needed a shoe horn to fit his 6.4 frame in and he had to fold the rudder peddles up to be half comfy.
Once he was in, he was in for the whole flight as there was no chance of him getting out without full down elevator!https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/p417x417/1546267_1440620912821283_756161867_n.jpg

[DanS333]

Hi All,
If you a keen to get back in contact with Sandy this is his website, Sandy's Homepage (http://www.reith.com.au/sandy/sandy.php)
As it happens he lives just down the road from me.

Cheers, Dan

[DanS333]

Well, I now own ABM
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1779246_717220018327750_8189741478132420931_n.jpg?oh=7793bd3 bf02a84ec47387f458e4c8861&oe=54ECE47B

[Critical Reynolds No]

Congrats (I think?).

What are your plans? Going to move it?

[DanS333]

Give her a good clean up and put her together in my hay shed.
I can then charge all the guys like WM2 that used to fly her to come sit in the cockpit and reminisce:}.
I also picked up DHN shes only bare bones though.
I will need a couple of old i0720's if anyone has them lying round;)

Cheers, Dan

[DanS333]

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/99/05/110210599/photos/undefined/IMG_3690[1].JPGHi All,
We moved ABM on the weekend, thought you might like to see some pickshttp://memberfiles.freewebs.com/99/05/110210599/photos/undefined/IMG_3685[1].JPG

Back home in the morning fog

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/99/05/110210599/photos/undefined/IMG_3704[1].JPG

[Fris B. Fairing]

Anyone with an interest in the Dove will be pleased to know that Geoff Goodall has just published a comprehensive coverage of the Dove on his website:

Geoff Goodall's Aviation History Site (http://www.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/dh104/dh104dove.html)

[CaptPetersan]

I​ was interested to see this month that some dude had a Dove in his back yard in North Croydon. As a former driver of these antiques I was tempted to do a search on the internet for ABM. I was tickled at the stories of Sir M and the(F)lying corporation. I got involved with “The Corporation” when it was situated beside the “Flying Fuz”. Captain Flight was the first to fly ABN to PID and the nostalgic fascination to fly a 1940’s aircraft got me in. The 1947 manufactured Dove made it one year older than me, thankfully with more modern engines. Captain RAT was next from memory as the Chief Pilot of DF. He endorsed me before departing for Fiji and Herons. Talking about PID and the lights, remember taking off when none visible. Must have been hiding under a rock or the bunnies.