PDA

View Full Version : Spicejet B737NG Contract--Some Non-salary details


Nevrekar
28th Apr 2008, 03:31
Folks:

I am getting a lot of emails regarding Spicejet and I am happy to help those who might be interested in coming here as an NG Capt. Here are some details
regarding working conditions etc here. These are for a line pilot. Pay is extra for checkpilot and examiner.

NG current qualified will get preferential hiring. Prefer 500 hrs PIC in type.
Next would be PICS on other B737 variants (200/300/400/500).
Non-NG qualified PIC's may be considered based on need. We have a few former B747-400/727/757/767 Skippers with no previous NG time. Some flew a B737 years ago.
Non-NG guys get 100 hrs of IOE (known as LFUS). 40 hrs in the right seat and 60 hrs in the left seat.
Pay is for 80 hrs of flying. (Block time).
Pay is chocks off/chocks on. Not cabin door closure.
No ACARS.
Overtime is after 80 hrs.
Overtime is paid in the following month (arrears).
No currency protection clause for dropping dollar.
No trip rig/duty rig.
No pay for trips not flown due to mx or ops cx.
Credit for Dead head.
No credit for Sim training or ground school.
No union or legal protection.
No medical dental coverage in your home country.
Coverage available in India through Mediclaim at no cost to you.
Cost of medical care and meds in India is very reasonable.
Loss of license insurance is 100,000 USD at no cost to you.
You are responsible (cost) for renewing your medical.
When you take your weeks off you do not get paid.
Travel pay is dependent on type of contract.
Annual bonus is paid. Equal to about 50 hrs of flying.
Pay can be direct deposited anywhere.
Pay is always ON TIME--Usually early--28th,29th of the month.
Indian taxes (33%) paid by Spicejet. Your contract pay is NET.
IRS will give you credit for foreign tax paid, limiting your tax liability.
Foreign tax exclusion means you have to be overseas for 330 days/365 days.
Sim check and line checks every six months.
Sims in Bombay, Hong Kong, Dubai, Brussels and also DFW.
No per diem.
No retirement.
No profit sharing.
No schooling allowance for kids.
No jumpseat on other airline.
No interline agreements (ID 90 etc)
Instead of perdiem you get an an entitlement when you overnight.
A typical entitlement might be free breakfast, and around $30-40 for meals per day. Also 4-5 pieces of laundry covered. This does not apply to your base hotel but just on your overnights. At your base you probably get free breakfast and discounts on everything else.
Transport to from airport and office for work provided.
Hotels are 4-5* hotels.
Expect to fly 100 hrs a month
Indian rules: 8 hrs/day; 35/7; 125/30 days; 1000/12 months.
Rest is generous compared to FAA. Minimum rest is 10 hrs or twice the flight time whichever is more. Plus 2 hrs for transport. Any duty from 0000-0500 gets you extra rest. Can't fly 0000-0500 for more than 2 consecutive nights.
Expect schedule changes daily, weekly.
Expect to fly 6 days a week.
8 days off a month-sometimes you have to call them on it. They might not give you the days. Use it or lose it. You cannot carry over days to next month.
Sick days are 8 days a year plus 6 days for upper respiratory illness.
Rostering guys are not bad--They have to work with what they have. And right now things are tight. In fact it is always tight.
Learn to say NO!!! Just don't make it a habit!
Expats are outnumbering Indian Capts.
Indian Capts here at Spicejet are a good lot.
Jack Ekl and Jatti Dhillon are "good folks." and they actually answer their phone day/night.
Fly to age 65.
Fly based on your ICAO license. No conversion required. Fly under FATA.
Aka Foreign AirCrew Temporary Authorization. FATA is renewable at DGCA Discretion.
International Flying planned soon!! Yippee.
Cargo operations also planned.
Fleet is B737-800 and B-737-900ER.
New airplanes keep coming.
Maintenance is good. No pressure to fly broken airplanes. Capts decision is final.
Spicejet needs around 50 B737NG Capts for the future.
Indian F/O's are being upgraded but the pace is still fast and Capts are needed.
Good prospects for a few years in my humble opinion.
Family can come here if desired. Few of us have them here. Makes life easier.
Apartments can be rented in lieu of hotel stay for family guys.
India is not for everyone. It is a different experience if you have never lived in a Third World Environment. In the midst of economic growth there is still poverty, and an environment that can be less than appealing.
Read up on India, online or buy a book. It's worth the investment.
Travel here on an ID90 etc if you can and see for yourself.
Come here with a good attitude, patience and some flexibility.
Please, Please DO NOT come here and start bad mouthing the country, people, culture, airline etc. Spicejet needs Capts but will not hesitate to show you the door for reasons mentioned.. It has happened here more than once recently.Frankly, from what I hear Spicejet was more than tolerant. They(The Capts) would never have done what they did back home and gotten away with it. As a Captain here you are treated with the utmost respect by staff. You will be pleasantly surprised.
Try not to abuse the power you have here with the underlings.

My top three favorite drinks:
1. Jack & Coke
2. Capt Morgans Spiced Rum & Coke
3. Corona or Tecate with lime

Cheers!

Hope this helps

P.S. I am a contract Captain at Spicejet. I have been here for 1 year.
I am not part of any contract agency or involved with hiring at the company.
I hold no office or have any special influence.
The information provided is based on my personal experience here and may differ significantly from others who have been here. Some folks did not have a good experience in India and perhaps not at Spicejet. There are no perfect airlines nor perfect contracts or people for that matter. I apologize for any inaccuracies, omissions or misinformation in advance. My intent is to be truthful and unbiased. Please make an informed decision to come here based on all your research.

Rotorhead1026
28th Apr 2008, 05:22
Family can come here if desired. Few of us have them here. Makes
life easier.
Once this little tidbit gets back to his wife I'll let you all know how well the medical insurance works. Nevrekar will be unable to type. :)

It won't take long since I understand she's in country. Ouch!

Nevrekar
28th Apr 2008, 05:51
Gosh--I didn't realize how hard it was to type with my left hand only.
Vision is getting better by the hour, eye isn't that black anymore. Time to hit the Jack & Coke to ease the pain. Perhaps a Calcutta overnight might do the trick!

niss
28th Apr 2008, 06:22
Thank you very much for taking your time to write so much info.
I have friends flying 2 years for Jet Airways, giving me info as well.
Time to decide
B737 3-900 TRI

galdian
28th Apr 2008, 10:35
Hi Nevrekar
Also thanks for taking the time to post, all good background info.

Mainly because things change (and partly because a little slack!) could you advise how many agencies are active in employing Captains; of course any additional thoughts and feelings regarding the good/bad/ugly of the competing agencies would be great.

Many thanks
galdian :ok:

Nevrekar
28th Apr 2008, 10:59
I don't know too much about contract agencies. I did not use one. I applied directly to spicejet by emailing [email protected]. I have heard of the following though, and they are not listed in any particular order (good or bad).

1. PARC
2. AEROPERSONNEL
3. CONTRACTAIR
4. RISHWORTH
5. IASCO
6. PREMAIR

I have also heard of CCL (I think). They don't have a website but everyone loves them. Not sure of the correct name.
Sorry, not much expertise in this particular area. Others who have, please feel free to post your experiences.

non sked
28th Apr 2008, 16:06
I think that we owe a great deal of thanks to Nevrekar. A great many potential expats really are clueless to what it is and what it takes to deal with a 3rd world country. His posts have been honest and informative. It is this info that helps us to make the leap or not.

While the "been there done that" is in some of our aviation paths what was true in the distant past has changed in total for what it is now. It is posts like this that tells us what is going on now (could change for tomorrow) and accurate info translates into accurate knowledge.

What seems like a great adventure for some would be a total melt down for others. I for one owe him a "thanks" for the info he has been kind enough to share with us. Nice job, John.

Acomabird
28th Apr 2008, 19:43
Thanks Nevracker, good info. They ought to make it a sticky post.

One question; what do you mean by " No credit for Sim training or ground school."? I'm guessing it doesn't count towards your 80hrs, but do you get payed, .. something ... maybe?

One minor point, from what I have seen of the contract, the yearly bonus is measured by how many weeks "on duty" you have. 40 weeks "on duty" gets you your yearly bonus. So if your on the 1 month on 1 month off contract, it will take you longer than the calender year.

Also you need to upgrade to Knob Creek for the bourbon portion of your jack & coke. It does make a difference, and what does kingfisher beer with a lime taste like?

Rotorhead1026
29th Apr 2008, 03:51
Also you need to upgrade to Knob Creek for the bourbon portion of your jack & coke


<Cough> ... <Gag> What??????!!!!!!! Upgrade my :mad:!

Knob Creek is recycled Jim Beam (at a higher price). They probably just pour some Everclear in to bump it to 100 proof :)


Let the gunfire begin ...

Nevrekar
29th Apr 2008, 04:39
Some of the contract issues are causing heartburn because the company has changed the time-line for pay on some benefits. The issue for some has been:

1. Travel: Contract says 10 weeks on/off guys get $3000 every 10 weeks.
Now they are using some other formula to pay it. They are still paying you but on a different time-line. This may because they are so many guys on all kinds of different contract terms and they can't keep things straight individually. That would be my guess.

2. Annual Bonus: Contract says 13th month is when you get it. Now it is on some other time line which requires 40 weeks of employment. Once again perhaps because of guys on different terms.

3. Days Off: Contract says min 8 days off a month. This is different from DGCA requirement of 24 hrs free from duty every 7 days.
A day off (calendar day)is from 0000-0000 LCL time. 24(DGCA) hrs off can start at any time but must include a period of 2000-0600. Also this period of 24 hrs will be after or in addition to rest required based on flying in the past 24 hrs.
What is happening is that the ARMS software is sometimes counting a period as a day off even when it is not a full calendar day. The ARMS is to meet DGCA rules and does not address the contractual day off. In other words you may come in at 0200 in the morning and have 24 hrs off beginning 10-14 hrs later. The software counts it as a day off b/c it calcuates the 24 hr period.
I would hardly consider it a day off.

Botomline. You will get paid what is owed to you, but perhaps not when you expected it exactly. I feel that they should do a better job in honoring the contract or rewriting. This is weak point in India that needs improvement.
The western mindset takes contractual obligations seriously and expects the same in return. When it becomes one-sided, then it becomes a worthless contract. I don't think that any of this is causing tremendous hardship but it more of a principle issue.

On the question of SIm training, you don't get any pay credit. In other words your base pay covers the time to /from and in the sim, unless you are an instructor /examiner doing the training.

On the Kingfisher Beer question, it's actually pretty good and I imagine the Kingfisher girls start to look even better after a few !!!!

Rotorhead1026
29th Apr 2008, 09:16
I feel that they should do a better job in honoring the contract or rewriting.


They actually do a better job than stateside outfits. At least they're TRYING to make sense out of a difficult situation. At home contracts are continually under outright attack. The only real issue I see is days off for Delhi pilots. I don't know of an operation on earth where schedulers don't push the limits - you just have to stand up for yourself. In my case it's not an issue, but I don't fly out of Delhi. Anyway, it's the best place to work over here, at least for me.

Actually, I don't care for Kingfisher beer. Then again, the girls (Kingfisher or Spice) already look good! :)

Nevrekar
29th Apr 2008, 09:57
That is a valid point, and one that I had failed to consider. At AirTran and other ALPA carriers as well we had a contract compliance person to deal with contract issues. Very often, we were simply asked to comply, and grieve it later. So in fairness to all, contract non-compliance in NOT just here in India.
Ask anyone in the States today about the erosion of their contract.
As Rotorhead pointed out, SPICEJET does a good job overall in this respect.
I do not believe that they deliberately deviate from the contract. Often it is an oversight and they need to be reminded. DAYS off issue is due to shortage of Captain's. The Indian Capts are a stable workforce in that they are present in the country for the duration of the year with the exception of leaves, sick days etc. The expat guys are on a constant rotation, and when you add in training etc, it can be quite challenging. Furthermore, many guys come here and only stay a few months, and so just as one guy gets signed off to fly, 1 guy leaves. The cause for leaving may not be SPICEJET related.
Sometimes the offer elsewhere is better, closer to home and family, commutable etc etc. Some come here just to get current again and bail out.
Some guys can't handle India as a country and environment. The net gain in Capts is thus zero! I have heard of guys who have left Spicejet to join other carriers for a few more dollars or a perceived better package. Not sure if at the end of the day they were happy with their decision. Spicejet folks by and large are a very friendly bunch.

NG ExPat
29th Apr 2008, 17:28
Nevrekar,

You have done an excellent job of painting all the positive points of Spice Jet. Frankly I think they ought to pay you extra for your advertising skills and positive spin. However there is a couple of bad notes to this whole thing that you have not included.

For instance, let us say that you are on a 1 On 1 Off or 2 On 1 Off contract. You plan on coming home on the 29th day of the month. So you decide you are going to fly your butt off for a big paycheck that will come the following month. You fly 110 hours. Do you get paid for that 110 hours? Nope, what you get is 29/80ths of the monthly guarantee. All that overfly was for naught. It is not something that is mentioned out right in any contract that I have ever seen. Their thinking is, you did not stay the entire month, so therefore you only get a portion of the months pay. So what had the potential to be an almost $11k month suddenly turns into approximately an $8216 USD month. Quite a shock for most the first time it happens. One individual decided to take the company on over this issue, and was labeled as a trouble maker, and let go, just prior to completing his 1st year.

Speaking of that first year, and the bonus associated with it. I know of at least one individual who completed his contract this past November. He has yet to receive his bonus. Let's see that is going on 6 months since it was due to him. There are a couple of others who are still awaiting their final settlements after leaving. It for the most part is the bureaucracy that not only exists within the government, but within companies such as Spice Jet as well.

You are exactly right in what you have said about, if you are going to come to India, do so with an open mind. Which we all know is a very hard thing for Pilots to do. We work in an extremely Black and White World, and therefore we expect the remainder of society to work the same way. Not so in India for sure!

As you know I was involved in a very political situation while there. A word to the wise here Gentlemen and Ladies that are considering going to India. Do not expect Spice Jet nor any other company to stand behind you if something happens that perhaps puts the company in a bind. While Jack Ekl will do what he can for you, his powers only extend so far, and the ultimate decision is made by Indian Management. Indian Management tends to run and hide. Even lie to you if need be. I am still waiting for an elusive letter from the DGCA passing judgement on my situation. Which by the way folks was medical in nature and absolutely 100% okay with the FAA. It was easier just to dump me.

Please do not take this as sour grapes, because that is not my intention. But I feel it only fair that any potential candidates should know everything, good and bad. Had I not had to endure the situation that I had to, I would no doubt still be flying there.

Just as the Boy Scouts say.......Be Prepared!

Nevrekar
30th Apr 2008, 01:11
NG Expat--Thank you for pointing out some of these issues. This forum is exactly for this purpose. Information--Good, Bad & Ugly. Your experience has been to some extent at the other end of the spectrum, sadly, through no fault of your own. Your self-disclosure won you no brownie points.
Personally, I have not had any major issues with the Company regarding financial stuff. My annual bonus arrived on time, and I have always completed a month before leaving so I never had to deal with the partial month issue you have mentioned--nonetheless, it is still a valid complaint.
As I keep saying, please make an informed decision to come here. Read the posts, ask questions, decide what you can handle and for how long. Come here with two buckets in hand. One for the money and one for the B.S. When either bucket fills up, leave. Hopefully your buckets don't have holes!
Some folks are ok being here, others just cannot stand it for too long. As the saying goes ---Even the flattest pancake has two sides.

NG ExPat
30th Apr 2008, 04:10
Well said my friend.....

Rotorhead1026
30th Apr 2008, 11:19
NGExpat said ...

You plan on coming home on the 29th day of the month. So you decide you are going to fly your butt off for a big paycheck that will come the following month. You fly 110 hours. Do you get paid for that 110 hours? Nope, what you get is 29/80ths of the monthly guarantee. All that overfly was for naughtNot quite accurate. Yes, you'll get $8216, plus the difference between 110 and 80 hours - so you'll still do well in this specific case.

You're paid $8500 per month, pro-rated, plus the excess over 80 hours, NOT-pro rated.

You're hardly bitten in your example, but yes you can hurt yourself. Say you take half the month off, but fly 60 hours. You're screwed; you just get $4250. One guy flew 80 in three weeks (w/o knowing this - might be the same guy you mentioned). He got paid $6375 . The guy about screwed himself in the overhead when he found out - BUT IT'S WHAT THE CONTRACT SAYS (at least mine says that). Yes, it's not what we're used to - but it is what it is, screwy or not. Pro-rate your 80 hours and don't fly over that if it bothers you.

By the way, tell us how you're doing. Any overdue fees on the "borrowed" kidney? Manju hasn't published any airline stuff in awhile, AFAIK. :)

boeingbusbenn
30th Apr 2008, 20:42
What is the pay like at SpiceJet? I can't find any information on it.

Acomabird
30th Apr 2008, 22:00
You can pick through the posts from Nevrekar, which I suggest you do to get a good feel, and details on Spicejet. Below is what I was given from a contractor. It is pretty basic and straight forward, but allows a lot of flexibility it seems. Not much hand holding, but a bit of support, form what I have read.
Basic Expatriate Contract (Full time)
10 weeks IN; 3 weeks OUT (2 year duration - extendable) Termination -30 days notice by either party. All India taxation prepaid by Spicejet.
Free ticket at contact commencement and termination.
Pay 8500 USD per month pro rata available for duty in India. Voluntary overtime always available for expatriates after 80 hours at 106 USD per hour.
Retention Allowance of 5000 USD the first year; 6000 USD the second year; 7000 the third year and thereafter. For this purpose a year is considered to be 40 weeks (accumulative) in India available for flight duty.
Medical in India paid; uniforms and manuals supplied on loan.
Accommodation executive level (search for: Park Hotel Delhi India which is our contracted expatriate crew hotel in DEL) ; business transportation ground/ air provided at no cost to the pilot.Commuter Contract (Full time)
According to basic contract (above) except:
2 months IN; 1 month OUT.
Leave travel allowance 300 USD per work week paid quarterly.Commuter Contract (Part time)
According to basic contract (above) except:
1 month IN; 1 month OUT.
Leave travel allowance 300 USD per work week paid quarterly.