Fast track to CPL in Australia

[xfsd]

(Originally posted in PP forum)

I am assessing a number of options to get me to CPL/ATPL with the intention to fly for a regional airline in Australia
Available is an approved fast track training course to CP with multi engine, command instrument rating and 200 hours.
A leg up is given with an almost guarantee to the right hand seat of a Saab or Metroliner with a regional carrier
Time - 22 weeks
Cost? AUD91k about 88,000USD

Their idea is to study ATPL whilst an FO

Alternatively - same as above with multi crew license, ATPL, emergency procedures, CRM, same hours, same offer of employment - 52 weeks similar price

Any thoughts on fast track or in general

Regards,

[Chief Wiggam]

No such thing as a fast track training course. The only ones that do it are the ADF. That still takes a couple of years and has about a 70% fail rate.

Anyone else trying to get people through in 22 weeks is just fanciful, negligent and just plain deceptive.

Stay away from the Rex type courses that promise much but deliver heart ache. I don’t even think the first Rex cadets have even flown yet!

Nothing worthwhile comes easy and there are no short cuts when it comes to training. That 90k and 22weeks will just blow out to 150-200k and 2 years. Then you will be stuck as an F/O for life. You certainly won’t have time to do your ATPLs while working.

Just go do it the traditional way. It will work out the cheapest, the quickest and the most rewarding. You might even be flying a jet in 3 years with a command a year or 2 after.

Doesn’t that sound better than being a Metro/Saab F/O for life on 40 odd k!

[xfsd]

Chief - thanks for your thoughts - what about the 2nd scenario with all theory and CPL prac in one year?

[Justin.C]

ol mate chief wiggum, you`ve been eating too many doughnuts... i did the fast track course, got to cpl in about 4 months, did mecir after that and now fly Rpt as an F/o on turboprops, took all of 10 months to get to that point. There is such a thing, it`s not easy but it can be done, for those who are motivated. It`s an excellent way to get into the industry. :)

[Mesopause]

Hey Chief I suggest you do ur home work before you pass comments about things you know nothing about!!! Take a look

http://www.ftpilottraining.com/

You really need to move on from the wilbur wright method of training!!!:ugh:

[BrazDriver]

Yeah it does exist. They call it the First Officer for life program!

Also previously known as the suck you dry program!

[McFlyte]

I could find very little information about Fast Track Pilot Training other than the sales pitch. The information they supplied was... brief. There are a few folks on these forums who rave about them but that's not evidence enough for me to invest $90k.

Perhaps in the future they will have developed a reputation and more objective info will be out there, but for the moment they seem a bit of an enigma.

[aero747]

Unfortunately in aviation there are alot of people who don't know wat there talking about and still think they know everything. Just because you dont know it doesnt mean its not true and just because u might not be able to do something doesnt mean others can't. I did the fast track course finished my cpl in 18 weeks have been on a turbo prop as an f/o for just over a year and am looking at a command within the next two months.

[aero747]

oh and i just took 6 weeks of to go do my atpl exam's with nathan higgins with three of the easier ones to go which is definately possible to study for while working. Some people just dont believe in themselves enough or others for that matter

[i842]

xfsd

I am currently doing the fast track course and am on target to finish my cpl in about 20 weeks. The course just makes very efficient use of time, I chose it because i wanted to get into the industry as quickly as possible. You have to be very motivated because as JustinC said it isn't easy but it's all worth it!

[Chief Wiggam]

I did the fast track course finished my cpl in 18 weeks have been on a turbo prop as an f/o for just over a year and am looking at a command within the next two months.I can’t see how unless you’ve been ICUS’d for 500hrs or flying high capacity. I doubt either but I could be wrong.

You guys wouldn’t be working for Skippers by any chance?

It seems like a great way to skip the experience gaining process and jump straight into a low payed job as a glorified radio operator, but it ain’t. Apart from missing out on valuable experience for yourselves, the inexperience also increases the workload for the Captains you fly with.

Sorry xfsd, I wouldn’t recommend the 2nd scenario either. Mainly because there is no such thing as a MPL in Australia. I would go and find a reputable flying CLUB and go do your CPL and IR in one go. Then ATPLs with AFT.

With all that out of the way (probably for only 50-60k) go get you first PIC flying job. I would recommend up North. Work your ass off, stay safe and legal, don’t pay for any endorsements or ICUS, make life long friends and enjoy yourself. Soon you’ll be back flying lager types with the experience and confidence they require. You will reduce workload in the cockpit instead of increasing it and add to a more safe and efficient operation.

I’m not bitter, nor jealous. Just wanted to save some of you new guys some grief later on. I suppose you have to walk the path yourselves.

[Mesopause]

xfsd that's exactly what you'll do - work ur ass off, not get paid much (if at all) and probably work in the office more than you'll fly.

The regionals are actually finding that the fast track pilots are a better product than the undisciplined pilots who have been flying up north.

The chief needs to move into the 21st century.

Things have changed my boy - for the better!!!

[morno]

Mesopause. "Undiscipined pilots who have flown up north"??? You're kidding right? Take that c**k out of your mouth and get real.

I flew up north for a few years, and I don't come across as "undisciplined". I work for a reputable operator who is very strict on the rules (like everyone should be, and most are), and I haven't found that I've had to change the way I do things.

aero747, what a wank. I highly doubt that you're looking at a command within 2 months. If so, that means that you're telling me you've done about 1,300hrs in the previous 12 months (illegal), you've done 75hrs IF, 100hrs night and now have your ATPL? PLUS, you're also telling me that your company is going to let you operate a turbo-prop over 5,700kg on RPT operations, with barely over 1,500hrs total time (which equates to about 850hrs TAE if you account for your co-pilot time)?

Chief, I'm with you. At least there are still people out there who have the experience to be able to teach the experience to these wankers.

morno

[Mesopause]

Morno I did my time up north like you before moving onto jets. Too much blue sky and your flying becomes sloppy. You become a great single minded ifr pilot and often find the transition to multicrew can be difficult.

I say good luck to aero and all the guys and girls today who are obviously gonna have a faster and easier career path than u and I did.

The facts are they seem to be doing what they say they are doing so get use to it.

XFSD go the easy route brother my career path sucked!!!

[PRIMA2]

I am also a current fast track student and there is nothing DECEPTIVE to it.
We sit all the same exams as everyone else and do all the same flying in a shorter time frame, we are current because we fly every day.

From what i have been told the airlines are no place for the unmotivated.
From what i have heard their ground school schedule alone is high pressure, similar but relative to what us fast track students go thorough.
I would rather be prepared than not entering into the airlines.

[Islander Jock]

I would hazard a guess that the guys and girls working for the likes of KFS, Polar, Tripicar, Broome Av, Slingair and Aligator to name but a few, would ALL rather be doing what they are now and that is getting real command time and experience.

It is fast but there is a sudden stop to it. And at $80K - $90K you can spend that same money much more productively and be far more employable at the end. Not many GA operators with Barons, Chieftains etc are going to have much use for somone with hundreds of hours the Co-pilot column and bugga all in command.
Too much blue sky and your flying becomes sloppy.Is that meant to be a general statement or just what happened to you?

[xfsd]

Island Jock and everyone else thanks for your feedback it is all being taken on-board
Island Jock if you were me and had 90k to spend on training to be employable, how would you do it?

[desmotronic]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions...........

[Rate1]

Hey Menopause,

I hope you don't fly for my airline. With an attitude like yours i can't see you climbing the ladder but rather staying stagnent. Have a listen to the people who have taught and flown in the industry. They know what is good training and what is not. Remember it's not how quick you do the training but the product produced and the product the airline will accept. Remember in the past when operaters would ask where you did your ATPL? Overseas and convert? I can now see them asking, Fast Track or Professional?

[Islander Jock]

xfsd,
check ya PMs

[crank1000]

I lived in Perth for a few years and just wondered if you ever flew in conditoins other that clear blue sky? I ask because your finished in 22 weeks so how do you get experience in varied weather?

Has a "sausage factory" feel about it to me. Why do you have to be done in 22 weeks? Is it really going to damage your chance of employment if you take 12 months to do it and maybe retain some knowledge from those CPL exams you did? If your cramming that much info into your head in such a short space of time, I'd say alot of it will get lost.

My 85K got me a CPL, MECIR, tailwheel and aero's etc to boot. Flew in all sorts of weather and didn't feel like I was force fed.

How much did you spend before Skippers took you on?

[orvilright]

This is my first time on pprune

I am also looking at doing the fast track course and can see many benefits

I must say there is a lot of agro on this thread. You guys are scaring me.

Surely with all the pilot jobs out there and the lack of pilots there is room for all types of training.

[BrazDriver]

If people do a search through the threads this school has come up many times. It has been self promoting itself many times, and there are signs its happening all over again! Smoke and mirrors!

If this thread is genuine Listen to what Morno, The Jock and The Wiggum have to say.

In aviation quick and easy is never that!

[ausflying]

i find it strange how many first time posters have popped up to defend fast track pilot training. Co-incidence? perhaps not :E

[xfsd]

Hi Ausflying
I posted the original question-funny its my first post and funny I am asking how to start
FYI I had 23 years with Qantas starting as a 16 year old apprentice amd ending up as a cabin crew manager retired at 39 I have managed a hotel on the Gold Coast for 2 years and have **** loads of money and want to learn to fly.
Forum are either informative - as this has been to me up to this point - or full of people wanting to swipe at everyone
You choose your own path just like I did but get your facts straight
- A zero hours person wanting information

[Zhaadum]

I have seen the Fast Track product (students) first hand post CPL. About 8 or so I think so far. Some are good, some are not. I believe it comes down to motivation. It is not enough to say "I think I will be a pilot, that is a cool job!" Those who are not good enough don't pass. Same as everywhere else I suppose.

The person running Fast Track gives the students a very "rosy" picture of their abilities / prospects. Add to that some youthful overconfidence and lack of tact of some individuals and you have a situation where a newly qualified pilot could annoy many an crusty old salt of a Captain. Experience will be the great leveller, and the Fast Track pilots will end up OK in the end.

The more important issue is: are there sufficient experienced Captains to mentor these guys/gals through their first couple of years?

Z.:ok:

[BrazDriver]

Ausflying, xfsd wasn't picking you out! He was referring to the other single posters coming to the rescue! And there has been many threads here trying to advertise this outfit!

There have been 1 or 2 f/o's that have been ok. Like I have posted previously they are F/o's for life!

Zhaadum also brings up a very critical point! Not many Captains around with experience in babysitting! I will try not to bring up a certain incident lately that had been mentioned on other threads.

[Mesopause]

In the airlines we call it standardization and we actually like it!! :D

[BrazDriver]

I suggest that before taking menopauses advice they read his post history. Of his current 23 posts only 4 are directly unrelated to giving a plug to this establishment. Including this little gem....

The word is out that a new school in western australia called fast track pilot training is getting CPL's trained in 16 to 20 weeks and their pilots are going straight into airline jobs. I saw their website at

http://www.ftpilottraining.com (http://www.ftpilottraining.com/)

Does anyone else have any first hand knowledge of this mob???

Are they actually achieving this. Sounds too good to be true???or this

There have been some threads recently about another mob who get you trained much quicker with the same outcome.

http://www.ftpilottraining.com/index.html
Oh yeah theres plenty of smoke around the mirrors tonight! :ugh:

[WIKI44]

Good day to everyone. I recently finished my cpl+me-ir. It took about a year for me to finish off. There was a LOT of time spent on the ground, dealing with aircraft unserviceabilities, weather etc.... However, the time spend on the ground, was in retrospect, invaluable. I had time to actually read other material rather than the ATC/BOB TAIT books, which allow one to pass the CASA exams, but are by no means exhaustive on the subjects of aviation. There is a ton of information to learn and a million things to read. I wonder when the fast track fellows have time to do anything else.

Another important thing about staying on the ground for longer than 2 minutes is the opportunity to reflect on a lesson, and perhaps better prepare for the next one. The hardest part of my course was the IFR component. I realized that to have a productive flight, I required the good part of a day to plan and prepare. Every sim required atleast 3-4 hours of prep. I just don't understand how knowledgeable pilots are being trained in 18-22 weeks! I have meet several pilots who have completed their training in this time frame, and unfortunately they have absolutely no clue.

Perhaps fast track has discovered a way. If the most important aspect of flight training is the time frame for completion, then I think that priorities need to be thought over again.

The rush to get to into the right hand seat is a bit worrying. Training seems to be more an obstacle rather than a part of getting a job with an airline. I myself am an Indian, and am also looking towards joining an airline in the near future. If I had an option, then i would have loved to become an instructor and gain some more experience before trying for a charter job. There is however, very little scope in GA in India. I have learned much from my instructors. Strangely enough, I will probably fly in an airline much before they ever will. I am however, none the better for it. Everyone seems to complain a lot about GA, but I think all Australians should respect it a lot more, and be grateful that they have a means of gaining and earning their experience.

I think everyone who goes through a fast track program is missing out on a lot. It isn't all only about logging hours as quickly as possible.

[Islander Jock]

Great post WIKI44, some very good insight from someone relatively new to this industry.:D

[BrazDriver]

Here here WIKK44. Great post :D

[Stretch06]

What aircraft do these fast track companies use?

My concern would be flying with a fast track pilot who has no emergency manoeuvre training.

Just how much training in Spinning / UAs etc does a fast track course provide?

Stretch:ok:

[Chief Wiggam]

Just how much training in Spinning / UAs etc does a fast track course provide?
About 10 seconds worth if you can get though the slide show presentation quick enough……need to practise clicking the mouse!

Its ‘Fast Track’ remember, not the ‘Right Track’. :D :rolleyes:

[Stretch06]

Hope others feel safe flying with a Captain who has no idea about anything other then S+L flight....

I think more should be done in training with regards to emergency handling. I think Spinning training should be a mandatory part of the syllabus not just for fast track but or all training. (Just my 2c)

Not to mention it’s as fun as all hell..... :}

Stretch:ok:

[Rawrawhammer]

talking to some of the former guys from the course, they said that it cost 70k+exams + 35-40k for a Metro endo.Now the course has gone up to 90k+exams etc + 35-40k endo cost.

So 130k to get a job and miss out on all the fun of training by normal paste and standard.No thanks.

Apparently they use new jabirus with glass cockpit and CSU/retract in an Archer then off to ad-astral for twin ifr.

They told me that skip*ers has the right to tell them to F off after 12 months as that's what the schools offer actually is.Not a job but 12months internship and then if they wanna keep you they will.

btw, they LOVE their jobs tho.:E

cheers

[orvilright]

ok let me try again.

I am 18 and live in victoria and am looking at the fast track school in melbourne where they have some students training.

I believe the course is the same CASA syllabus course as all the other schools offer.

Fast Track just say they are more efficient so will get me through the course quicker than everyone else.

I understand weather is a problem in melbourne but they say I can move to their school in Brisbane to finish my flying because the weather is fine there now.

The people I have spoken to seem to be above board and they tell me that I will have to pay for my endorsements with one of the airlines but I wont with others they get pilots into.

I would like comments from anyone who has done the course or who is doing it to see if this really is the case.

Thanks

[BrazDriver]

Please see above thread. Same mob, same smoke and mirrors.

Same #$^% different channel!

[Magarnagle]

I'd be very wary of buying into any sales pitch from the salesrep that runs the course. As mentioned before, the guy is a smoke and mirrors operator through and through. The guys and girls I know (all good people) who have done or are doing the course have unfortunately bought into the myth that actual command experience is not required for a career in aviation, which strikes me as opportunistic at best, and dangerous at worst. Not to mention paying $80+K for something they could just as easily get for $50-$60K (with more command time). After extensively seeing this guy in operation, I would not recommend the course. :ugh:

Don't be fooled, the FT course is essentially only a mediocre software based theory course tacked on to flying training that takes place in flying schools that are not actually any part of the FT company, who have been hamstrung by FTs inability to see reasonable solutions to the problems with the course. Be wary of this middle man who takes his cut, and adds it to the total cost of the flight training, providing very little in return that couldn't be gotten through regular channels. Most of the FT students I've met are still using Bob Tait/ATC to pass their exams.

Personally, once I finish my CPL I am very keen to do the GA flying that some people have knocked. I think that the experience to make command decisions from the planning stage through to engine shut down will be invaluable, regardless of my career path. An analogy for the FT course might be like getting your driver's license overnight, then spending the next few years as a back seat driver in a truck, and then thinking you have the knowledge and experience to drive the truck yourself.

After saying that though, you get out what you put in. I've seen some well regarded pilots come out of sausage factories, and some quite ordinary pilots come out of reputable schools. Much of it comes down to attitude, and a readiness to watch, listen, learn and absorb. But taking "too good to be true" shortcuts can really narrow the odds of actually getting anything useful out of a course and a career.

I rarely post here, but I felt compelled to add my two cents to this thread. At the end of the day, all that glitters is not gold.

[McFlyte]

Thank you Magarnagle for the info.

Your description of the way the course works certainly answers a few questions I had.

I'm hoping to get a CPL this year (I assume it will take at least a year - the prospect of studying full time is diminishing with my bank balance), and if all goes to plan I look forward to a (probably long) stint in GA. However, I am footloose and fancy free, and I can see reasons why others may want to get straight into a different gig.

Back to the point; there are plenty of threads on these forums where various people discuss the values of various schools. I can think of two common pieces of advice that pop up everywhere; don't pay for anything in advance, and visit the school personally to see what you think.

I have visited schools in Canada, the US and Australia in this regard, and the experience has been excellent (I was travelling anyway, it wasn't a special trip for the purpose). If FTPT is an online theory course (without a base to visit) which you pay for up front, joining up would seem to disregard both these gems at once.

I will not pretend I know anything about the industry or this course and admit I have a non-aviation background. But I think this thread demonstrates that close inspection of any potential school or course BEYOND the realm of your desktop would be beneficial.

If FTPT do read these threads, do they care to comment for themselves? We are all interested in how the course works. I will contact them myself also, and come back to the forum if I hear anything.

[Magarnagle]

Definately do as much research as you can, and ask as many questions as possible. Even if you already know what the answers are, you can often tell quite a bit by the way someone phrases their reply.

Have a chat with Fast Track by all means, with your eyes wide open. It could be just what you're looking for, you never know. And take everything you read here with a grain of salt, formulate your own opinions based on as many facts as you can gather.

If you're in Perth (Jandakot) at the moment, you'll probably catch some of the Fast Track students upstairs at the Aero Club cafe, where they are doing their theory and flying these days (not sure what happened to their classroom, and they've switched flying schools a couple of times). Look for the FTPT epaulets sitting at the tables with their laptops studying. They're friendly people, and they'd be able to give you their impressions of the course. I believe they're operating out of a couple of different flying schools over east as well.

[The_Squeaky_Wheel]

I don't post here much, but thought this thread needed an update.

Apart from one student taking the owner to court for "alleged" breaches of contract so wide it looks like the Dambusters came to town, these kids have been promised plenty and gotten little more than wishful thinking for their trouble. I've seen the contract they were given, it's a joke.

Another student has taken the better part of a year to get to the point where he is now in line for a F/O job, but he'll be unemployed for another 4 months before he gets in then he'll have to pay for his endorsement I assume.

Other students are failing exam after exam using his outdated and clunky theory course. I dunno if they're using Bob Tait books as well, as suggested, but it wouldn't surprise me if they needed to.

The poor buggers are ropeable, but they don't see any way to get out of it (apart from the student doing the sueing). They should have done their home work before forking out the loot.

I would be very cautious about handing over $90K upfront to anyone, let alone this bloke.

I heard that one bloke said it pretty well: "That guy is so busy making enemies, it's a wonder he ever gets anything else done".

[Chief Wiggam]

I hate to say I told them so, but a valuable life’s lesson learned.

It’s a shame these sort schemes tarnish what should be a fun and rewarding learning experience for these newbies. Unfortunately gen Ys want it all, and want it now – the very attitude these sharks will prey on.

[BrazDriver]

I second that Chief! It's not like they weren't warned! Not just on here but by every flight school out there!

[capt787]

the only 'fast track' course i am aware of is the one offer by uni. however it still took people 8 months to get their CPL, plus another 4 months for ATPL and MECIR

i share the same opinion with the other guys on this forum - 22 weeks for CPL seems like a difficult task. it might happen because theoretically there is enough time to get 150 hours in 110 working days, however when you considering the possibility of U/S aircraft, lack of instructor and bad weather then the chance of finishing in 22 weeks seems a bit slim

just my 2 cents

[Magarnagle]

That's 22 weeks for CPL + MECIR for the Fast Track course.
The thing is, it's taking MUCH longer than that.

If the students were backed up with tutors, realistic management, decent academic resources, reliable aircraft, good study space, a commitment from the company to actually TEACH the students rather than shoving them into the Aero Club cafe with some shonky software, then the course could actually work. As advertised, at least. A foot in the door as a bottom rung F/O with minimal hours.

As long as the students eat, sleep and breathe the training, and they are backed up fully, it could potentially do what it's supposed to.

When the boss is breathing down the students necks telling them to only use half the lights in their old building, or cutting back the internet due to the outrageous cost (I'm guessing the outrageous cost would be somewhat less than $90,000), not supplying toilet paper or any other basics because that's not what management is about, or unceremoniously sacking the very people who were actually worth something in the company, it all seems a little counter productive.

I'm not surprised that students are wanting their money back, not to mention some of the investors in the company.

[boardpig]

Aviation has changed somewhat. I can't believe there are folk who are more focused on taking the shortest route, rather than enjoy the experience of the journey!
Bottom line, there is no substitue for experience. Soon the whole thing will be Gen Y, want it now types and those with genuine experience will be mopping up after them...

[xfsd]

Time has past since I started this thread about 4-5 months ago.
I chose the tried route and after three weeks have 11 hours and BAK under my belt - which I am quite happy about - some weather and ac down time have put me a couple of hours back but I'll pick them up next week.
One of the rapid method schools I looked at as late as last week moved from the local airport to me to elsewhere and would have resulted in a 3 hour round trip daily.
I will be glad to complete the PPL exam to then be able to concentrate on one subject at a time for CPL!
Thanks again for the advice and PMs that have resulted in a great outcome

[Kickatinalong]

We have some F.T students with us at the moment and all appear to be on time and on budget I'll keep you posted in a couple of weeks when the first one is due out.
It appears to work to me so just hang on bagging everyone out 'cause they are doing things to the way we did it.
"There are non so blind as those who won't see"
Kickatinalong.

[The_Squeaky_Wheel]

Hi Kickatinalong,
I don't know how the students over east are doing, they could all be coming on well as fully experienced junior Neil Armstrongs for all I know.
But whenever I'm out at Jandakot and talk to people who have dealt with FT and talking to the students themselves it's always interesting to hear what new and creative ways the operator has found to shaft someone (students, operators, staff, investors, creditors).
That rings alarm bells to me and it provides an insight into the guy's thought processes and priorities.
All the best to you and your dealings with FT, I hope it all works out for you. There's no chance I'd recommend the course now from what I've seen. If you reckon it works, go for it. It could possibly work if given much better management than I've seen so far.

[Kickatinalong]

The first 4 fast track students have all passed CPL in req'd time 20 /22 hrs, at the moment they are doing their MEIFR, It works in the East Squeaky, I think we have a few starting from scratch again now and I cannot see why it won't continue to work. They have been well vetted and are all bright young men.
Fast Track is and does work.
Kickatinalong.:D:D:ok::ok::ok:

[Magarnagle]

A leg up is given with an almost guarantee to the right hand seat of a Saab or Metroliner with a regional carrier
Time - 22 weeks
Cost? AUD91k about 88,000USD

Here's a belated update from Fast Track in WA.

So far there have been two student lawsuits against the operator. One is rumoured to have settled out of court, and the other is still in progress (with a spurious counter suit against the student by the operator).

There is at least one more case of legal action from a business partner for debts running back years, possibly another (the amount being claimed is reputed to be a fraction of a million, possibly more, I can't recall if it's a big or small fraction, but any fraction of a million is big bickies).

Only two of the last batch of WA students have so far graduated, since starting in late 2007. One is cooling his heels, still waiting for the allegedly promised right-hand-for-life seat in a Dash 8/Metroliner/SAAB/Insert promised aircraft here after finishing his MECIR around August last year. He is now working in retail.

The other graduate was pretty much told he shouldn't be in any hurry (rather than being treated well for having been stuffed around so much), so he's cut his losses and is flying a 152 in South Australia on bird scaring duties just north of woop woop. At least he's in command. Lucky he managed to avoid that horrible path through the dreaded GA hey?

As far as I'm aware, there is still one student from the last batch who is still with them, and still has a decent number of hours to complete the CPL (18 weeks from November 2007 would be when?).

I believe there are a few prospective students here in WA, not sure how many have signed up. Considering the price has apparently gone up to $100,000 (presumably to cover the lawsuits against Fast Track), and the problems the students have had, I would guess not many.

The head honcho at Fast track is alledgedly still buying the Bob Tait books for students. Obviously the software tutorial package that hasn't been updated since 2001 is still doing the job as well as it ever has.

They are still paying around 40% more than the other Aero Club students to have the benefit of the Fast Track tie and epaulettes, and the status amongst their peers as being "young go getters".

Why is this bozo still around?

*Some of this information is first hand, some second hand, some third hand. But it is all pretty accurate. Some other information has been left out entirely to protect the innocent. There is plenty more damning info out there.

[Magarnagle]

And there's more I forgot to add.

The guy who was on the posters for Fast Track who did graduate in around 22 weeks and go into the right hand seat of a Metro at Skipper's was reportedly still waiting on a command slot. In a Conquest mind you. If he'd gone through the GA route, he would likely have been into (and out of) something like a Conquest well and truly by now, with plenty of command hours under his belt.

This info is a little out of date, I haven't heard much about the guy in a while now, he seems to have slid under the radar.

[The Green Goblin]

The first guy that went through, his name started with a G. That was in the last half of 06. He got onto a Metro with Skippers and last I heard is still an FO. (I think he was promised the 441 for some command, has not happened as far as I am aware)

Now lets think about this, singles 07, Multi - last half of 07 - 08, Turboprop/Airliner end of 08.

Fast Track my arse :eek:

[Magarnagle]

Yep, that'd be the guy.

So I guess he still hasn't got the command then.

My understanding is that Skippers had a hard time keeping their check and training people, so he's had very little of the ICUS that was supposed happen. I can't recall what the ICUS situation is at Skipper's now, I think I heard that things have improved a little for those seeking ICUS to move into command???

Either way, I'd bet his posts these days aren't nearly as enthusiastic for Fast Track as they were earlier in this thread....

[The Green Goblin]

Things have improved a little because the experienced guys are not getting plucked into the airlines right now.

But to those regional operators don't count your chickens before they hatch, things will be even worse once the next hiring boom hits us!

[Magarnagle]

In all fairness, I've just heard that G at Skippers is now ready for line training. Looks like he'll get his captaincy after only 3 years! Congrats.

[flyboy_79]

I would careful signing up to any cadetship/or fast track CPL coarse that offers employment with an airline, after 200hours unless of coarse the cadetship is promoted and/or run by the airline. in which case details should be on the airlines website.
I have no doubt that it has worked out for a few people in the past but with the looming economic crisis and airlines such as virgin looking to cut jobs you could be in for a tough time if you get stiffed for a job at the end of your hard work.
Any coarse that promises to offer you employment with an airline should be able to give you an interview with that airline before serious training begins.

as for the cost? $80,000 to $90,000
I have heard of some coarses costing upwards of $70,000 for a CPL only
Lets look at what $80,000 will get you at your local flying school or aeroclub.

$40,000 Commercial pilots license 150Hours
$14,000 Instructors rating 50hours
$15,000 Multi engine command instrument rating 40hours
$3000 Night VFR 10hours

Total $72,000 Total hours 250
All making you a very attractive pilot.

By all means what a great opportunity if you manage to get into the airline your promised. but I believe that is a very big if.

Just do your homework.

Some of victorias reginonal airlines have fast track cadetships there not cheap but there is certainly opportunity at the end.

[YPJT]

Any possible usefullness of FT went out the window with the economy. A very wise person once said to me "Make sure you keep your powder dry when dealing with FT"

[Aerohooligan]

PRIMA2, be very, very careful in your choice of words. When you say things like 'the airlines are no place for the unmotivated' the obvious implication is that those of us flying the lighties up north are unmotivated and took the easy way out.

Trust me mate, it takes ****loads of motivation to work two jobs, 70+ hours a week, flying minimum hours getting ICUS'd before being checked to line, not being paid for it and just barely paying the bills and the rent from that second job - all the while knowing the industry is on a backward slide and you'll be lucky to still have any kind of a job in a few months time. All this while trying to study ATPLs at night and getting about five or six hours sleep a night...all this while desperately attempting to have some kind of a social life.

And that is to say nothing of the daily struggle it was to complete my training. The long nights fighting with the parents about loans, paying board at home, dropping out of uni to pursue my dream, working six days in order to fly on the seventh and finally being promised a job by an operator up north and forking out $20k for an instrument rating before being informed two days before completion those jobs had been filled by more experienced pilots.

So like I said, be really careful when you make such implications, even if they are unintentional. For the record, I'm pretty sure I know Justin C and I wish him all success, but be aware that you guys in some respects have an easier ride than a lot of other people. You certainly worked hard to be where you are, no one doubts that, but you don't have to endure some of the same suffering the rest of us do.

Please don't take that as a shoot down - just friendly advice. I can see you getting royally toasted for such comments...plus I needed to have a bit of a whinge. ;)

[Magarnagle]

Flyboy_79, as I mentioned in my previous post, the cost of the FT course has apparently gone up to $100K. I guess they are covering the costs of the legal actions against them.

FT were not able to get places in any regional airline for the last batch of students in WA (or nationally for that matter). Those students are currently working in GA. This all started BEFORE the economy tipped over, so the odds for FT students getting jobs have gotten even shorter now.

Apparently they are enjoying GA flying, although they did pay vast sums of money for the promise of a shot at a regional airline which has not eventuated. One has had to part with the extra cost of an instructor's rating so he can get a job.

Be very wary of snake oil salesmen.

[ksa5223]

After doing my CPL / MECIR / FATPL in 13 months, I got a job up North. Those 13 months I was full time studying and I believe that this was as "fast tracked" as I could handle. I didn't rush anything and was very happy with all my results.

The best part about taking your time with your training is after a flight you then have an opportunity to reflect on the flight, scrutinize your every action and find ways to improve your flying.

After scoring my first job, the first few hundred hours was the absolute steepest learning curve I have ever had! Faced with every imaginable (for me so far) VFR pilots most dreaded scenario's and dealing with them. As a direct result I am more confident when I fly and have much more common sense with how I operate and deal with situations/ problems.

Decision making on your own is so important, no matter what your flying and is what pilots fresh out of training are in dire need of!!

The PIC time is priceless. Go get some!

[The Green Goblin]

finally being promised a job by an operator up north and forking out $20k for an instrument rating before being informed two days before completion those jobs had been filled by more experienced pilots

the name of the operator didn't start with a D did it?

Sounds like their style thats for sure! (and I bet the 20k for a CIR was completed by their flight training arm also)

[aerodude]

FT were not able to get places in any regional airline for the last batch of students in WAYeah when the FT student (i believe it was only one) did get a place it was only because skippers were so desperate for pilots that they nearly shut down.
I hear that the last batch of students are now up in Broome looking for a job in GA. All for the small sum of $100,000! :yuk:
Fast tack to the airlines my @rse.