Airline v Military

[mcgrath50]

Hello All,

I know how opinionated so many people are here so now there is finally a thread where u can be as biased as you wish!

I am sitting at the end of my high school life and am unsure where to take my flying.

The major options I have is; Australian Defence Force Academy (Leading to RAAF Pilot), QANTAS Cadetship (these are my two first preferences), Rex Cadetship, Bachelor of Aviation most likely at UNSW (these two are equal second preference), Staying at my flying school and getting it all there.

So those are my preferences. What is your opinion on each of them? What did you pick? How did you find it? If you could do it all again what would you do and why?

[portsharbourflyer]

Out of interest have you actually been accepted for entry to any of these schemes yet? Or are these just schemes you could apply for.

[Trojan1981]

Australian Defence Force Academy (Leading to RAAF Pilot)
Depends if you want to be a Pilot, or just another military officer who drives an airframe.

[mcgrath50]

Explanations would be good? What exactly do you mean by that?

In regards to ADFA v Direct Entry if that is what you are referring to (and I don't think you are) i have read it is almost impossible to join the RAAF as a pilot Direct Entry.

[redsnail]

Flying school route at Bankstown then Hoxton Park. Went bush to get a job.

Why? eyesight too poor for the RAAF and there were no cadet schemes when I started.

The big thing to note with respect to the RAAF, you really have to want to be a military pilot. Sure, the flying's free but it's very competitive both through ADFA and direct entry. You'll probably do a B Sc.

Batchelor of Aviation? well, they aren't required but if you want one, why not.. Look at the cost and how you'll pay it back. ie HECS etc.

Personally, out of the various cadet schemes I'd go for the QF one. May as well aim at the top. I believe the Rex one has come under difficulty already. There's a couple of others around too.

[Turkish777]

I would love to fly a fast jet over a commercial airliner but one thing to consider is one day your country may send you to war and then you will be commited to bombing a country or people which have personally done nothing to you. During this innocent civilians sometimes get killed too and thats something you have to live with, I dont think I could do that so I think a B737is better for me...I dont like to sound like the grim reaper but its something worth thinking about...

[Trojan1981]

The two previous posts make good points. I served Eight years in the Australian Army and passed Pilot selection. One thing that was made very clear during RMC selection and training was that we would be Army Officers first and foremost and Pilots a very distant second (I was DE SSO). I spent about half of my time with RAAF units so I know they tend to hold Pilots in much higher regard.
The ROSO for ADFA Pilot is about eleven years from memory, so if you don't like it you have a long time to think about it. Flying fast jets would be amazing, but they only train maybe 10 F-111/18 Pilots a year so chances are slim. There are also moral reasons that may sway your opinion, as stated in above post.
If you just want to fly there are lots of other jobs out there. Assuming you have passed selection for all above, my pick would be QF.

[mcgrath50]

Trojan, Why specifically QF over ADF?

It is in a way a worry of mine that the ROSO is so long but I would be out by 30-34 (depending on ADFA or DE) which means ill still have 31+ years of flying ahead of me...

In terms of the moral problems I am not averse to the ones mentioned.

My main worry with the QF Cadetship is the boredom of working with the one company...

[BUSH PILOT]

G'day Mcgrath50, I was in a very similar position to you at the end of last year.

The options I considered were almost identical to yours and in pretty much the same order of preference, so I'll tell you what and why I did what I did...:E

In regard to QF v RAAF, I feel very similarly to Turkish777. Fighter pilot would be awesome, but I think I'd struggle with the moral side. I also considered attempting to steer towards c-17 or c-130 if possible, but in the end I knew the airlines was where I wanted to end up and I wasn't 110% committed to the RAAF so was most likely to be weeded out anyway! also 11.5 years roso is a fair while!:ooh:
Therefore QF mainline cadetship was my number one goal, with training at the local aerodrome number 2 and uni number 3.

My reasons, QF cadetship obviously quickest and dare I say 'easiest' way into qantas IF you can get it! Unfortunately I didn't make it past the psych test, I'm obviously more of a mental case than I originally suspected...:eek:
(Also, I decided to go for the CPL intake, which kind of ruled me out of doing aviation degree, although I had kind of already decided that was not the way to go as If I do decide to get a degree it will most likely not be in aviation, hopefully something more usefull:})

Anyway, where I have decided to do my training (local aerodrome) is much MUCH cheaper than the organisations the uni's use, not to mention I can do it at my pace, which is also significantly quicker than I would have been able to do through uni(aprox 4 months to go from GFPT with 30 hours, to CPL)

Also, look vary carefully at REX, I can not comment on personal experience but from what I've read/hear, I would tread very carefully around those waters!

Anywho, enough of my rambling, hope some of it has helped, in the end I guess you just need to know what you really want out of your flying...and also who's going to be paying for it!:eek:
Remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat, as I'm rapidly discovering!
Best of luck with the choices, Bush Pilot:ok:

[mcgrath50]

Thanks very much Bush Pilot, very interesting. What have you heard re the Rex Cadetship?

In regards to whose paying. At the moment I have paid for all my flying expenses bar my medical and I can't really see that changing too much (although hopefully I will be able to weasel something out of the olds!). But if I get the QF Cadetship it wouldn't take long to earn back the money spent!

[BUSH PILOT]

As I said, I have no personal experience with REX, however I do think there are probably better ways of getting to the airlines. (That is of course assuming as I do, that you eventually want to get there, not so for everyone as I'm aware) I'm reluctant to say anything too aggravating on here, and of course this is all just my opinion, but a quick search on them should reveal a few issues. I don't know how to post links to other threads, but a look at the 'REX cadet school woes" in the D&G reporting points forum should get you started.

[mcgrath50]

:sad::uhoh:Some one at Rex has dropped a bollock! :D Good job to them lol.

I might stay clear of that one then!

[Trojan1981]

At least if you go QF and you don't like it, you can leave. This is not so in the ADF. If you wanted to stay QF could offer you a fairly secure career with exellent T&C.
In terms of the moral problems I am not averse to the ones mentioned.
Neither was I until my first operational o/s deployment.

Its your life, just think hard before going down that road. There is a good reason why they have a ROSO for all service personell, and it has nothing to do with the cost of training.

Remember, ADF pilots cse has a very high fail rate (you can be failed for officer qualities etc.). If you do fail, you will spend your ROSO as an officer flying a desk, not aircraft.

[mcgrath50]

Like most young pilots my ultimate goal is to work for QANTAS. But i worry about the bordem of being with one company from when I leave school to the day i retire. What are others experiences? Do QANTAS offer 'exchanges' it may sound ridiculous but i do know in other parts of the private sector it happens (admitadely with more management orientated jobs).

[Trojan1981]

There is far more to aviation than the airlines, maybe go GA if bored.:ok:

[mcgrath50]

Wouldn't going GA mean leaving the job at QANTAS? I don't know if i could justify that!? Which as I said before makes me worry about the cadetship that I will be in one company for my whole life.

[link_142]

if you are worried u will suffer from 'boredom' then maybe being a pilot isnt for you, not that you will get to work for qantas, especially with an attitude like that. If one is lucky enough to pass a selection for that of Qantas then one is very highly unlikely to just get 'bored' of the job.

You really need to get a REAL insight and do your own research as opposed to just searching forums.

[mcgrath50]

Link,

If you must know I have about 10 contacts in the RAAF and QANTAS and i had never thought of 'getting bored' until it was mentioned by an ex-RAAFie in QANTAS! I have used up all my friends dads and so on and the only other way I can think of getting more contacts and opinions is in places like this! The more info and opinions I get can't hurt can it?

I think you should understand the full situation before calling into judgement one of my favourite things in the world. I went solo on the weekend and in some form or other i know I will be flying for my whole life, thank you very much!

[bufe01]

Look at it this way, you can always go military then airlines and do both, can't really do it the other way around.
Good luck

[Loiter1]

Don't know if you have thought about it, but have you thought about the Cathay option. I am not 100% sure on the details, but I know it involves doing time as an instructor with FTA in Adelaide and then going to CX after 3-4 years. Just another option.:O

[Vortex Thing]

Seems late to add my two penneth worth...... but that fact that you are asking the question should be answer enough.

If you are unsure (even 1%) as to how you feel about operations and whether or not you would be able to deal with the moral issues then to be honest you are wasting your time.

I can only speak for the British Army but served along side many fine Australians and found the military outlook to be very similar.

I never saw anyone who hadn't dreamt, worked, created the opportunity in every way shape and thought for them to become military pilots get through the courses. I saw people fail from basic officer training to 4-5 years down the line. If you haven't wanted this at the exclusion of just about everything else in your life, if it isn't the most important thing in your life and your world, if you do not believe that life outside of military aviation is second class then don't even apply.

I say this not because you do or do not have the ability (I don't know) but because their are just too many young guys and girls who decided to shape their lives to achieve military wings aged 8 at an air show somewhere who will make you look bad when you go for selection and if somehow you get through then somewhere in training you will realize that everyone would happily die doing their jobs and you do not know why they would and its a little too late by the time the range has turned two way and you're in expensive hardware to find that out.

If you do not want to be a serving officer first and a pilot second then get going down the civvy route and save you and your country a lot of time and effort it is not a cushy route for good reason.

Good luck with the choice!
VT

P.S. IS that opinionated enough for you :ok:

[flyhigh744]

what vortex said is just too true