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Double Zero
24th Apr 2008, 09:30
A group have got together in a serious way to try to keep the property developers from building 2,600 houses over Dunsfold.

So far the planning applications have been turned down - or that's the tale I've heard & read though Dunsfold Park say not -, but the fear is it's only a matter of time or.

The airfield is still in good condition as such, and would make for instance a superb warbird restoration base!

Most of the hangars are used for bulk storage, with a few of the smaller buildings used by light industry - which seems fair enough.

'Top Gear' shuffle from hangar to hangar as their filming season suits.

Mercedes also use it regularly to teach people how to handle their McLaren wonder-car.

There is also a tiny museum there, manned by 2-3 veterans who were there during the war - they were initially told last year they wouldn't be getting any tickets for the annual 'Wings & Wheels' display ! Later sorted out but wouldn't seem to reflect a good attitude...

Dunsfold is a historic site ( major POW reception, F-86 refurbishment, Skyways, Hunter, Hawk, P1127/Harrier as just the obvious examples ) and also a war grave - there were some nasty accidents when the Dutch operated B-25's from there in WW2.

Moderators, I understand links to websites are frowned upon, so while I will mention it now, if you feel you have to edit it please would anyone who feels like signing up PM me.

http://www.sdpnt.com

diddy1234
24th Apr 2008, 10:43
yet another airfield could go down the plug hole !

maybe I am wrong but it seems that this country no longer cares about its heritage and education anymore.

As for Dunsford, I would be very surprised if the development went ahead (within the next 5 - 10 years at least) as I am told the owners of the site are making too much money out of it to build houses.

I have heard a rumor (so not too sure if it is true) but to hire out the runway (say for professional driving courses) there is a graded price scheme.

The more you pay for the usage means that can have the use of the runway at key times.
The less you pay means that you get some crap hours to use it in.

So that's why I would be surprised if the housing development went ahead at the moment. The owners are making too much money out of the site from various business interests.

RD

Double Zero
24th Apr 2008, 11:39
I wish that was the case, but in fact the revenue from such things as car testing is small beer compared to building a new town !

They even have a plan, I kid you not, to link up to the Wey & Arun canal, which runs along the Eastern edge of the airfield ( not navigable as people have built big houses near or even over it, including the ex-Lady Mayoress of Guildford who didn't want nasty pleb's in boats passing her garden )
- to dig up & flood the runway to give 'waterside properties' !!!

Cue the old joke about ' flood the runway, there's a Sunderland coming in '.

Naturally the runway was resurfaced just before closure - even if they were intent on this mad plan, why they can't go to one side and avoid the hard bit beats me, except to ensure no flying happens.

One snag is that the 'field was dormant for a couple of years after BAe left, so a lot of local NIMBY's who moved in during that period are terrified their expensive houses might suffer nasty aeroplanes around - at a meeting I was given a roving microphone & reminded them that if it wasn't for such places they'd be talking German, also the contribution to UK Ltd the place has made in exports...

I was amused to hear the Red Arrows 'Red 10' or whoever does the commentary state " this is a minimal size runway we would operate from " - I and my ex colleague couldn't help wondering if this chap thought he flew a Warton product, as they will let you believe !

My father was in charge of fitting the Hawk smoke pods, and I photographed the smoke colour trials ( the Adour runs a lot cooler than the Gnat's Orpheus, so getting a good solid colour was tricky ).

On the up-side, we did manage to dye a local lady's hanging washing bright green ! That was dealt with diplomatically & she was recompensed.

Unfortunately this is a real fight, Dunsfold needs all the support it can get.

Evalu8ter
24th Apr 2008, 21:20
Double 0,
Here Here! Dunsfold is steeped in Aviation history, and can we seriously permit the destruction of it in the manner of West Malling et al?

As for Avn use, we used the overhead for Chinook GH sorties (quickstops / wingovers etc) after it closed...until we were told that as an "active" airfield and due to Top Gear Filming we were not welcome...A shame, we could have headed the NIMBYs off at the pass.....

merlinxx
25th Apr 2008, 10:44
Does this location not have connections with the Harrier (aka 'Dunnsfold Dustbin') & the HS 125 (first civiation non avation death from a 125 over run hitting a car?) i know I know! Others to confirm.

tonker
25th Apr 2008, 13:21
This airfield is a memorial to Anglo Saxon industrial heritage/culture, and an uncomfortable reminder to some of numerous wars created by our European "allies"

Doesn't stand a chance:(

see RAF West Malling today after it has been turned into a "green field site"

PPRuNe Pop
25th Apr 2008, 19:01
It might not be as bad as it looks. Property developers are not going to undertake projects of that size and not be able to sell the houses - and it is going to get worse. The chances of a go ahead is very limited from what I hear.

merlinxx, you refer to the HS125 that was being flown by the renowned John Cunningham, who did indeed go through the fence and hit a car driven by the wife of his best friend who was unfortunately killed! What chances is there of an incident of that nature occurring with all the precise moments in time coming together! Some might say destiny I suppose. But it was tragedy.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
25th Apr 2008, 20:18
<<Here Here! Dunsfold is steeped in Aviation history, and can we seriously permit the destruction of it in the manner of West Malling et al?>>

So what happened to Croydon? People, apart from a few enthusiasts, simply aren't interested. Great pity.

JEM60
25th Apr 2008, 20:56
John Cunningham was demoing to a group of Chinese, I believe, when he had a miltiple bird strike, and had to put it down, hence the over-run. If I remember correctly, not only was it a friend/s wife that was killed, but their children were victims as well. Friend was, coincidentally, a Test Pilot, unless time has dimmed my recollection.

JEM60
25th Apr 2008, 21:08
Building housing in England is a huge problem. Where I live, there is a suggestion that a new town is likely to be built. Do we want it on our doorstep??? Of course not!! Therefore, we become NIMBYS. 'Let them build it on that little used airfield, rather than next to me' is the cry. Then the people interested in the airfield become NIMBYs too, by saying 'don't build it on our airfield, although it is little used, it is part of our heritage!!' Well, so is the countryside. So, there is a massive housing shortage in this country, so where shall we build these houses??
Perhaps we should start building tower blocks again, so we don't have to build on open countryside, or little used airfields, but then people would complain that they are unsightly etc., so it is a major problem. Whichever way we look at this, we are all NIMBYS in our own way. Virtually EVERY little used airfield is part of our hritage, but so is our beautiful countryside, but people have to live SOMEWHERE [but not next to me]

Blacksheep
26th Apr 2008, 06:38
Good point. But its not always a matter of NIMBYism. Hatfield was a much more important piece of aviation history than Dunsfold: it has now been built over, to the great benefit of the town. You can't eat history and Hatfield was devastated by the BAe closure.

DennisK
26th Apr 2008, 11:14
Pretty Dunsfold.

Yes a super airfield in a glorious location and there can't be anyone in GA who would like to see it developed into a housing and industrial estate.

The harsh fact is that there probably isn't a sports site anywhere in the UK that isn't worth millions more in houses. Football, rugby, tennis and cricket fields, athletic tracks (goodbye White City!) ... in fact any open space becomes worth zillions once the local planners give it the nod for houses. My old Grammar School where I played so many wonderful games of cricket ... now a mass of houses. The poor sods have to play their game a couple of miles away.

"Oh and you'll have to build one starter home for every half a dozen we give permission for." So we can sell it for one third of its value to some socialist voting no-hoper. And by the way, we'd quite like a new roundabout paid for out of the profit we could be handing you, and maybe a new library or two.

Joking ... See the madhouse roundabout at Purley, Surrey. Good old Tesco.

We flyers all know of the hundreds of acres of dead land all over Surrey that could be developed for young starting out couples. As my years roll by I've given up hope of ever seeing any common sense or fairness in local planning. Just profiteering. I've lost count of the lucky so & so's who happened to be sitting on an acre of suitable building land.

Take the couple of million from Bovis and retire to the south of France and leave hundreds of youngsters struggling to pay the inflated price of their building plot just to keep Mr lucky wealthy in retirement and happyin Pina Coladas!

Sorry for the Communist rant ... so how do we as an industry keep our aviation heritage sites safe. Any ideas out there before the developers home in on Old Warden?

I'll get on with my retirement knitting now.

Take care all,

Dennis Kenyon.

JEM60
26th Apr 2008, 15:02
Old Warden, and Duxford are the ONLY places in my opinion that are safe. They are both extremely well used, and the home of a vast amount of our heritage. The suggestion that Dunsfold could become a Warbird restoration base is simply not practical, given the ones that we already have, which are coping very well with our Aviation Heritage. If Old Warden or Duxford come under threat, then I can assure you that there will be protesters in droves about proposals to build, because they are both well known to Joe Public. Anything that is underutilised and not so well known will inevitably be in some danger, I'm afraid.

Slight thread drift, Mr. Kenyon, I'm sorry to have only discovered your helicopter displays a few years ago. Brilliant, and always the benchmark for future displays. A ver happy retirement to you, Sir.

PPRuNe Pop
26th Apr 2008, 15:44
He'll have to be put down before that happens. He has a lot to do yet! Eh Dennis?

Double Zero
26th Apr 2008, 20:14
Hatfield has gone - largely thanks to BAe - and I'm interested to hear how more revolutionary aircraft were planned there than the Harrier at Dunsfold;

I know about the proposed V/STOL transport etc, I suppose watered down to the HS146, but unfortunately that airfield wasn't saved - a great shame as this was an historic airfield, though if you don't mind me saying we Hawkers types always regarded DeHavilland products as a bit fragile !

Then again Sydney Camm seems to have liked unusually thick wings...

Dunsfold has a great deal of history, so please support it while there's still time.

Double Zero
26th Apr 2008, 20:42
JEM60

I'm sorry to say you are right; although I was at school then,( 1974 ? ) my father was at Dunsfold at the time.

The HS125 was indeed demonstrating for a Chinese delegation; it had a bird-strike in both engines just on take-off, and John Cunningham did very well to put it down straight ahead - across the main A281 road to Guildford - gear up.

They all got out unscathed, it was only later that the fire crew found bits of car - the wife & children of one of the comm's pilots had been viewing at the end of the runway...

He is a very well regarded pilot, and I will not name him here.

After that the option of take-off run was changed, ( with the prevailing SW wind most a/c took off the other way anyway ) and raisable barriers were installed at each end.

Double Zero
28th Apr 2008, 11:01
CORRECTION-

Brooklands have asked me to make it clear that the collision with Vimy and vehicle was a car not a tractor as I misunderstood, a few years ago ( I can't help thinking that's even worse but what the hell ...) and the Vimy has not been evicted, just told to leave for a little while or find somewhere else.

As various people have mentioned, there are plenty of 'Brown Field' places to fit houses in, while Dunsfold is unsuitable A; as an object of history,
B; as it is still a very useful airfield, C; as the local roads etc couldn't handle a town there !

folkyphil
28th Apr 2008, 20:32
...And apparently they will need a new reservoir somewhere, as there is not enough capacity in the local water supply infrastructure! (This info from someone with years of experience in the water industry...).

Eagle402
28th Apr 2008, 20:50
The gatehouse Security staff will be devastated if the housing plan goes ahead. They will be deprived of their chance to be rude and ignorant to Alan Sundry on an hourly basis. One in particular is the unholy spawn of a rottweiler and an ex Waffen SS officer. Takes huge pleasure on insisting that any visitors take one of the comedy 'maps' of the site only to hurtle after them in his Land Rover when, within moments, they are impossibly lost thanks to the 'map'.

On a more prosaic note, in the highly unlikely event of the field being sold to a developer, what will become of the 747 ? Will need a big hole to hide it in...

DennisK
28th Apr 2008, 21:16
Mike ... I bet we could get that old 74 going again. Know where's there's an engine or two!

Best wishes,

DRK

Double Zero
29th Apr 2008, 02:22
Good luck with the 747 - the place would be a lot better off without it, though nailing on a few engines rather than the fibreglass jobs sounds expensive and a major project !

I know most of the security staff and they could not be more polite & professional; unlike everyone I've met at the remaining BAe sites, though I suspect I recognise the junior member you're referring to ...

Evanelpus
29th Apr 2008, 10:39
Nostalgia equals zilch, houses equals money.

Forget it and dry your eyes. If developers want to buy Dunsfold for housing, or whatever for that matter, they will. Look at Hatfield, probably the classic case in the last 20 years. Home of the first jet airliner, the Comet, it closed with indecent haste once the decision had been made.

nedwards
29th Apr 2008, 10:57
I would like to address some inaccuracies in Double Zero's comments.

No applications for the re-development of Dunsfold Park have been turned down to date.

The Vickers Vimy is regularly at Dunsfold Park and flew their as recently as 19th March.

There is a small museum on the site run by two veterans which is open on Wednesdays from 9.30am - 4pm. I'm unsure where information relating to Wings & Wheels tickets was circulated but this incorrect as the musuem and veterans are well supported by Dunsfold Park and they themselves will verify this.

I can only apologise to Double Zero for any misunderstandings over photography taken at Wings & Wheels 2005 and reassure you that there is a new team in place for 2008 so if you would like to contact them I am sure they would be interested in talking to you further about this matter.

For the facts about Dunsfold Park I would recommend viewing their website which will answer many questions you may have or call them directly on 01483 200900.

Double Zero
29th Apr 2008, 16:00
Well I'm only going by direct experience !

I would welcome your version of the true story, but as an outsider now I've seen what's been going on - trying to work with rather than against Dunsfold Park didn't come out successfully, and I was fairly amazed when I was told by a D.P.ltd chap that they've never even maintained the hangars...

Yours, DZ ( incidentally named after Dick Dastardly & Muttley's mount, nothing to do with 007 ) .

Thanks for your kind apology, and please accept mine if went too far; I was going on what would seem to be 'legit' info.

I will emphasize that I am not connected with Brooklands Museum.

DZ

Double Zero
15th May 2008, 14:24
Well it seems I was on the mark after all, despite what a previous poster said !

I just received this in my mail.

" Help yourself chaps, there's plenty of trade for everyone ! "

Seriously, please put digit on keyboard - I don't know the campaign organisers, but I sympathise with them completely;

for anyone with nothing better to do, my little bit about Dunsfold is at

www.harrier.org.uk/history (http://www.harrier.org.uk/history)

- scroll down to ' Harrier Testing '

Please sign up before it's too late !

As for the alleged plan to make a museum with " every type operated from Dunsfold " - well the wealthiest billionaire aircraft enthusiast couldn't manage that, so take that as you will from a property developer...

----------------------

Stop Dunsfold Park New Town – act now!‏
From:STOP Dunsfold Park New Town Campaign Team ([email protected])http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w2/ltr/i_yellowshield.gifYou may not know this sender.Mark as safe (http://bl112w.blu112.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Action=MarkAsNotJunk&FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&ReadMessageId=864e6507-02c3-4915-86df-be5552b67ee5&n=1432145132)|Mark as unsafe (http://bl112w.blu112.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Action=MarkAsJunk&FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&ReadMessageId=864e6507-02c3-4915-86df-be5552b67ee5&n=522572108)Sent:15 May 2008 11:09:35Reply-to:STOP Dunsfold Park New Town Campaign Team ([email protected])To: [email protected]
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http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w2/ltr/i_attach.gif objection...doc (464.4 KB) (http://bl112w.blu112.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Aux=0%7c0%7c8CA84934B50EE30%7c&FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&ReadMessageId=864e6507-02c3-4915-86df-be5552b67ee5&n=67101658#)

Public consultation started last Friday on Dunsfold Park New Town Planning Application

You only have until 30th May 2008 to make your views known.

Despite taking 5 years to plan and five weeks for Waverley to check, the general public have only 3 weeks in which to lodge their objections to Dunsfold Park’s planning application for 2,601 houses.
This development will have a major impact on anyone living in the towns and villages in the Guildford – Horsham – Haslemere triangle. The new town will be 2½ times the size of Chiddingfold and will be built in 10 years rather than over 1,000 years. Our infrastructure and precious countryside cannot cope with such a massive and rapid increase in population.

If you live or travel on the A281 or A283 or the many adjoining country lanes - you will be affected.
If you use the local services - hospitals, schools, railways, etc. - you will be affected.
If you love our beautiful local countryside - you will be affected.It is very important that as many objections as possible are lodged.

If Waverley refuses the application, the number of objectors will become a very significant consideration when Dunsfold Park inevitably lodge an appeal. Please forward this email to your friends and neighbours and get them to file their objections NOW.
To register your objection you can either go to the Waverley web site (http://waverweb.waverley.gov.uk/live/wbc/DCOLComm.nsf/DC+Comments?OpenForm&AppNo=WA/2008/0788&Team=IE) or send an email to [email protected] ([email protected])
Attached to this email is a leaflet that will be delivered to households in the areas most affected. If you want to understand why this development is so wrong please read it carefully. It also contains hints on the best way to lodge objections, which are summarised below.
Thank you for support. Together we CAN make a difference.
The Stop Dunsfold Park New Town Campaign Team
This campaign is managed by SDPNT Ltd and is supported by The Campaign to Protect Rural England (Surrey). The company is registered under the Data Protection Act.

Helpful Hints

You should set out the reasons which concern you, preferably in your own language rather than simply copying our suggestions word for word.
• Road infrastructure. The existing road structure cannot cope with the additional traffic that will be generated. There are no plans to improve the roads other than the construction of a new access from Dunsfold Park to the A281. [Add details of any roads that you use which you consider will be particularly adversely affected – such as the Bramley bottleneck and local rat runs].
• Planning policy. The proposal is in conflict with all local, regional and central Government planning policies – in particular The Waverley Borough Local Plan 2002, The Surrey Structure Plan 2004 and the draft South East Plan. There are no good grounds for departing from these planning policies.
• Situation. The site is relatively remote and rural and almost entirely surrounded by an Area of Great Landscape Value as well as being on the edge of the Green Belt. It has Sites of Special Scientific Interest and other ecologically sensitive areas around it and to the east there are substantial areas that are liable to flooding.
• Services. The resultant increase in the population will impose an excessive additional burden on local services such as hospitals, schools and railways.
• Wrong place. Housing on this scale should not be lumped together in one remote rural location. In particular the affordable housing required to meet local needs should be built in the existing towns and villages in Waverley where it is needed.
Please do this NOW and forward the email on to others immediately.

Double Zero
3rd Jun 2008, 20:01
I understand that although the official closing date for objections was 30th May, anything sent in over the first 2 weeks in June will be accepted.

Planning application WA/2008/0788

[email protected]

Digits must be removed pronto - or do you believe ' a museum of every aircraft flown / developed at Dunsfold' is going to happen ?!!!

What does such a claim say about the developers ?

We've lost too much heritage already, if we let this development, vandalism historically, cynical and hopeless in infrastructure terms, go ahead then maybe we get what we deserve.

Please mail in !

StbdD
4th Jun 2008, 04:33
Want to stop it in it's tracks?

I'll bet a months pay that the grounds are quite thoroughly contaminated with POL and various chemicals spilled/buried over the years. I'll also bet nobody bothered to test it and it would not meet health standards if they did.

The only real way to clean that up is to scoop up the contaminated soil (which can be quite deep) and run it through a furnace. It costs a fortune to bring those sites up to safe housing or agricultural standards if they enforced.

Suddenly it doesn't sound so attractive to a developer.

Double Zero
4th Jun 2008, 17:24
STBD,

Thanks for that, I'll check out if such things have been researched.

DZ

chevvron
4th Jun 2008, 18:43
There's supposed to be a covenant on the land that if the airfield ever closed permanently, it would have to revert to farmland

Double Zero
4th Jun 2008, 23:15
Yes we all knew about the 'return to agriculture' clause when working for BAe, but it's amazing what £ signs can do...

Top marks to Cranleigh & Waverley Councils for resisting to date - with luck the utter daftness & over-ambition ( dare I say greed ? ) of the proposed plans will be clear to anyone with a brain.

So far, from the proposals I've seen, the potential developers fancy building well over 2,000 houses in what is still beautiful countryside ( and a very useful airfield ) with only tiny country roads to serve it, except for cutting a direct link to the A281 Guildford road, which is already notoriously dangerous & busy.

The crowning glory must be the scheme to dig up the runway- as far as I can make out, yes the hard bit, not to one side of it - how mad is that ?!

Then flood it with a link to the ( incompletely restored ) Wey & Arun canal so as to provide 'waterside properties' !!!

Someone has commented that the local water table / reserves couldn't cope with this - maybe just a cynical ploy to prevent aviation.

As mentioned previously, they have said they plan a museum featuring ' every aircraft type developed at Dunsfold ' - well I'll leave you fellow aircraft enthusiasts to judge the possibility of doing that, and the reasoning behind making such a claim.

So, it's a ghastly idea for the area as it is now, and aims to obliterate a lot of history, beginning with the aircrews who lost their lives there and from there, from 1942 on.

During the war any wreckage tended to be dumped into the canal, as it runs along one side of the airfield.

In my time, 1978-93, the canal was dredged and cleared at that stretch - along with discarded ordnance, large chunks of B-25 were recovered, we knew the story; the Dutch were operating these Mitchells, and one had a bomb hung up.

The crew were offered the chance to bail out, but stayed with it; on touch-down it blew up killing them all.

So with that and other incidents I would think it qualifies as a war grave too.

Then there is the contribution made during POW return, the Berlin Airlift, Skyways, F-86 & Sea Fury refurbishment, the Hawker aircraft developed there which did a lot for UK Ltd's exports and prestige ( Hunter, Harrier, anyone ?! ) - and still do today despite Warton / Brough 'stealing' the production lines of the Hawks, all models of which were first test flown at Dunsfold...yet it still remains an attractive place, sympathetically merging into the countryside.

The late Neville Duke's house just inside the airfield, which he mentions in his book 'Test Pilot' is still there, though could do with some TLC.

In a perfect world, as pilots have mentioned to me before when over-flying, it would make a fantastic warbird restoration base !