Flyopenskies

[NYC]

Hi,

does anyone know more about the selection process and interview? Have an upcoming interview as a DEC, appreciate any advice!!

Thx

[Tandemrotor]

I'm sure you are aware there is an industrial 'disagreement' regarding Open Skies, and an associated IFALPA recruitment ban.

[Shaka Zulu]

Can you tell us what your reasons are for applying to OS aswell?
In recent years you seem to have looked at jobs in Canada/Etihad/Air Lingus FO/KA etc etc.
Now apparently you seem to be vey lucky to be a captain with one of the Majors. So why the desire to leave?

[beachbumflyer]

NYC,
You are part of the people degrading the pilot profession. Always willing
to work for less money and worse conditions than others. It is time to
stop degrading the profession. Management is doing a pretty good job
at it, don´t help them. Help your fellow pilots, and at the end YOURSELF.

[Hand Solo]

If the BA crew really feel that strongly about Open Skies then why have you not gone on strike.

And that would appear to be the level of intelligence of the average OS wannabe.:ugh:

[banana head]

If the BA crew really feel that strongly about Open Skies then why have you not gone on strike.

You must be living in a news vacuum scratchingthesky!
Have a look at the rather lengthy post(s) on this bulletin board, or better still have a look at
http://www.baplane-bapilot.org/home.aspx
and enlighten yourself.

[Min Drag]

NYC, to answer your question:

First stage is a group exercise, then an interview followed by a Q & A session - all of which lasts about 3 hours.

Second stage is a sim assessment.

I hope this helps and best of luck.

Min Drag

[ItsAjob]

Scabs Scabs Scabs

[757_Driver]

Scabs Scabs Scabs

Oh grow up.

this is the 21st century. In case you didn't remember such enlightened 1970's union attitudes bought the country to its knees and bankrupted many companies.
By all means have your industrial 'disagreement' but try and do it like a gown up.:rolleyes:.
Bet you're down on the picket line with the teachers today aswell.

[six-sixty]

this is the 21st century. In case you didn't remember such enlightened 1970's union attitudes bought the country to its knees and bankrupted many companies.

True, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way towards greedy managers trying to maximise bonuses at everybody elses expense in the name of "competiveness". A bit of militancy here and there is about due (see teachers, refinery workers etc etc).

[NYC]

Hi,

thanks to everybody for your replies. Well, at first, I applied there before I heared about this ban!!

@Shaka Zulu: Major or not, I am indeed lucky (right now), to have a relatively safe job, but there is no harm to keep the eyes open and know what the market might offer.

@beachbumflyer: Please calm down and stop this BULLSH... :mad: about me degrading our profession, OK?!! There is a huge difference between attending an interview and signing a contract. I work for my present employer for more than 10 years and took part in one or two interviews, realizing that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence!!

Once again, I am just looking around and attending an interview or asking about information in this excellent (!!) Forum is the most direct way to get reliable information :ok:

Rgrds

[hunterboy]

What's ironic is that while the OS wannabees will crawl over broken glass for a job that pays 1/2 to 3/4 of the going rate, your new Chief Pilot is swanning around Cranbank in his brand new BMW X5 that your reduced T's and C's are buying him. Keep up the good work!!
Perhaps I will go for the Management Assessment after all. I didn't realise there were so many experienced people willing to work for nothing. Don't say you haven't been warned.

[757flyer]

Quote:
Scabs Scabs Scabs

Idiotic childish out of date rubbish.

In the 1970s a "scab" was a strike breaker who would walk over a picket line at the cost to the cost of those who were striking or protesting.

In the case of OS in 2008 there is no strike (BA may or may not win a court case regarding the legality of the BALPA ballot). In the meantime how can the IFALPA recruitmant ban still be valid? You are asking people to take secondary action to their cost alone on what may or may not be an illegal ballot. So what if people join OS? if you win they will be at the bottom of your list, its no big deal.

Quote: Handshandy
And that would appear to be the level of intelligence of the average OS wannabe.

That kind of comment shows the BA superiority arrogance that causes people to turn against you and your cause. :ugh:

[ItsAjob]

Its not just the BA pilots you are going against; it is the whole industry!
Look a bit further ahead than the end if your nose.

[Hand Solo]

In the case of OS in 2008 there is no strike (BA may or may not win a court case regarding the legality of the BALPA ballot).

There is no question regarding the legality of the ballot. BA are not challenging that.

In the meantime how can the IFALPA recruitmant ban still be valid?

Quite easily. There is no requirement for a strike to effect a recruitment ban.

You are asking people to take secondary action to their cost alone

Incorrect. People are being asked to take no action. Not the same thing.

on what may or may not be an illegal ballot.

Incorrect.There is no question regarding the legality of the ballot. BA are not challenging that.

So what if people join OS? if you win they will be at the bottom of your list, its no big deal.

Thats exactly the plan. All they have to do is hang for a few months and they'll be welcomed with open arms. Those with dates of joining during the recruitment ban will receive a warm welcome I'm sure.

That kind of comment shows the BA superiority arrogance that causes people to turn against you and your cause.

You've clearly been against the cause from the outset so the absence of your support is no great loss. If people were wavering in their decision then decided to apply just to spite the superior and arrogant BA pilots then I suspect they are the type of people who are unlikely to be be successful in their application. There is enough information out there for potential applicants to make their own decisions. If they deliberately choose to plunge themselves into the middle of an industrial dispute then on their own heads be it.

[757_Driver]

this is the 21st century. In case you didn't remember such enlightened 1970's union attitudes bought the country to its knees and bankrupted many companies.

True, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way towards greedy managers trying to maximise bonuses at everybody elses expense in the name of "competiveness". A bit of militancy here and there is about due (see teachers, refinery workers etc etc).

quite possibly, (although teachers who have had a 20% above inflation pay increase over the last decade and are now asking me to pay more tax to fund their pay rise, whilst they educate my kids to the worst standards in europe don't get my sympathy)
I don't have a view one way or another on the open skies issue as I am not intimately involved and therefore don't know all the facts However I was commenting that it is possilbe to conduct this dispute, from both sides, in an adult and respectable manner, not resorting to 1970's childish language.
And FWIW I beleive a recruitment 'ban' smacks of secondary action which is illegal, so I would certainly not agree with it.
I'm not planning to go to open skies, but if I were just laid off with a mortgage to pay, I certainly would. Its very easy for people -BA pilots or otherwise- to criticise people from a position of financial security.

[oapilot]

Its not just the BA pilots you are going against; it is the whole industry!
Look a bit further ahead than the end if your nose.

As yet another OS thread descends into chaos and bitterness, picking up on ItsAjobs quote above, perhaps we should broaden the slagging out to encompass all those experienced pilots who are currently wetting themselves in excitement at the prospect of paying Easy, Ryan, Baby, bmiRegional et al between £15 -£25k for the privilege of buying themselves a job.

Pilots, a diverse group of individuals united in self interest:ok:

[Tandemrotor]

Ah Min Drag

Thanks for the help. As you said:
I am currently flying 757's but am looking to improve my lifestyle and move to France
For you the appeal is obvious.

Just to come back to the IFALPA recruitment ban, as there may be some misunderstanding here:

There doesn't have to be a strike for the ban to serve the purpose for which it is intended. It is not even remotely like 'secondary picketing' (which would be illegal) It is actually designed to demonstrate to potential recruits that employment with OS is the subject of a major industrial dispute. The resolution to this dispute will inevitably involve discussions regarding the future of those pilots that applied, and accepted jobs during the notified ban.

A responsible employer would not put people in such an invidious position.

Nobody can know how those discussions will turn out, but those involved cannot say they were not warned of the potential consequences. They have made their choice.

So 757flyer, don't be so sure that you are sitting fat dumb and happy, and will simply be tagged onto the bottom of our seniority list regardless.

I have no idea what BALPA's reaction will be, but I am absolutely certain that BA are under no doubt as to the quality of people they are recruiting for this venture. There will be many mainline managers who will be aware of the spread of ability of you guys, and will be nervous of allowing blanket access to mainline. We have had recent experience of similar situations.

Like it or not, I strongly suspect that, if the result of this dispute is, OS pilots on the Master Seniority List, BA (not BALPA!) will want to handpick the pilots they wish to continue employing. This is likely to mean successful 'full' mainline interviews for some, and not for others.

Another scenario is that BA will simply start the whole edifice again from scratch, using current mainline pilots! (Very easy to achieve!)

Quite simply, nobody knows!

So in summary, those accepting a job with OS during a recruitment ban, aren't scabs, but they are KNOWINGLY putting themselves in a potentially precarious, and definitely uncertain position!

That's all.

[bluepilot]

I think that 757flyer has a point, there is a legal case going on here behind the scenes and therefore it is probably unreasonable to maintain a recruitment ban during this period.

On a different note i find it interesting that KLM / AF have "leased" their slots at heathrow to american carriers, therefore getting around their own unions by not operating their own brand out of heathrow. Continental, Northwest and delta will be operating out of heathrow in direct competition to BA on the bread and butter routes. Minimum risk to AF / KLM but however at what cost? Indirectly this is costing us European jobs, these routes should be operated by european pilots! But maybe the Americans can do it much cheaper? Openskies is BA's attempt to take this competition to LH, AF and KLM directly and at least the jobs are being kept within europe.

My thoughts are that this dispute needs to be resolved quickly in order that Openskies can commence operations asap. Those pilots considering joining Openskies should not be threatened by their own collegues in other airlines (read BA), this is counter productive. OS will operate no matter what happens, I would rather it was with EU pilots than outside contractors, or indeed americans should BA choose to register the aircraft in the USA! Also the french and Dutch unions need to wake up and smell the coffee! EU jobs are being sold out from under our noses!

[Tandemrotor]

On a different note i find it interesting that KLM / AF have "leased" their slots at heathrow to american carriers, therefore getting around their own unions by not operating their own brand out of heathrow

Apparently this is only an interim measure, pending the announcement of 'KLM Lite", their new, low salary offshoot.

[bluepilot]

Damn! i thought i had put my dear friend Tandem on my block list ! :p

I hear what you are saying tandem and your humour is noted. The currently fictional "KLM Lite" could well happen, but please read my post again, i think what is happening now is worse than the openskies KLM lite senario. KLM and AF are leasing out our jobs and futures to America this is not good at all.

As i have said in previous threads I support BA pilots in their struggle but you have to be careful here, I think the ban on recruitment to OS is probably counter productive, it would be very easy for BA to retrench this project to a country outside of europe and use non european crews to man it (see what KLM / AF are doing right now!:}:}). Then it would be impossible for BALPA to take an industrial action case out against a non EU company operating outside of the UK.

A very difficult situation to which i obviously do not have all the answers.

[RED WINGS]

HMM Sounds like "scope" to me!


Thanks for your support last year too! From the Ex BA Group drivers who now live your worries!

[Min Drag]

Spot on TR, your persistence and interest in my personal situation are much appreciated.

NYC, what I forgot to mention was that the team at OS are a decent & pleasant bunch unlike the handful of guys here who misrepresent and let down their colleagues by attempting to bully & intimidate.

If it suits you go for it.

[Hand Solo]

A lovely bunch indeed, such as the Rubber Glove who was best buddies with all the outstation staff in Europe and then as soon as he got a powerful management position made all his buddies redundant. There's also a deeply unpopular ex-BA 747 training captain there too. Like Min Drag says, a decent and pleasant bunch. Right up to the moment you turn your back........