Etihad upgrades are on A320 [Archive]

Driver of Buses

23rd Apr 2008, 23:35

This is obviously EYs way of filling the expanding A320 operation pilot seats internally and avoiding DEC. Highly preferable I would think. Hopefully a short term solution.

From the EY employment website the starting base salaries for A320 and A330/340 FOs are the same at AED 24500 plus AED 40 per flying hour. The base salary for A320 Command is AED 33000 plus AED 50 per hour.. No mention of A330/340 Command base pay.

My understanding is that the base salaries for each rank are the same irrespective of aircraft type. So what am I missing here? Other than overtime calculations or ULA vs LH vs short haul flying and overnight allowance income what's the major difference to income? What have I missed?

If it's extra income due to overtime then I can understand that difference but overtime is not always guaranteed and dependent on many factors. Most airline bean counters will find a balance between min crew employed and amount of extra hours flown per crew per month (overtime). It is not unheard of short haul operations flying max hours per month (hence big overtime) during periods of insufficient crews and expanding schedules.

Granted you are flying more sectors and going to work more times per week than a long haul pilot but you do get to spend more time at home.

Mr. Frodo

24th Apr 2008, 01:09

Ahhh, well, whatever. If they upgrade me now I will never say NO. I don't care if it's A320. After a year or so you'll be CCQ'd you to the bigger buses anyway.

So, count me in! Raise the roof guys! :p

Sir Osis of the river

24th Apr 2008, 05:29

Well said Mr Frodo,

Never turn down an airline Jet Command. Everyone will get onto the A330/340 at some stage, so hang in there.

Most airlines with a varied fleet upgrade on the smaller a/c first and then there is a natural progression to the bigger stuff.

Gotta be beter than DEC's

handsome one

24th Apr 2008, 12:20

Whats the allowance like at EY when u fly say 70 hours a month ?
A330 capt get basic 33000 (70 hours =3500) =36500 + ns allowance?? whats the average ns allowance u getting each month for capt?

jet-lag

25th Apr 2008, 07:08

Totally Agree 35E, that is what is coming . It is hard to believe mix fleet 320 330:=. I dont think is good idea, 320 and 330 are Differents.
And also for BUSDRIVER...it is REAl now a 330 340 FO earn More than a 320 Cap. This is a matter of fact.
Agree, UPGRADE is nice but....the families live with money no with 4 strips....:sad:

Mr. Frodo

25th Apr 2008, 15:06

mr jet lag - beleave is actually spelled believe. and differents? man, from where did you learn your english?

anyway, i'm not actually much into spellings and grammars but i do get your point. and as a matter of factly, your statement about pay and upgrades is not actually correct.

330/340 and 320 captain's basic are the same. overtime plus layover allowance in ULRs, yes, they do make a difference. widebody jocks do get some extra but as you say, upgrade is upgrade. but what the heck, i've done ULRs already as FO and enjoyed the layovers, but if the company decides to make all internal upgrades now in the 320 fleet, and they offer you left seat, would you not accept it? tell me, what would you do? are you gonna wait it out as EY widebody FO for the next 3 yrs or are you gonna quit and look somewhere else for a company that can give you widebody upgrade, even if you have to wait for 5, 6, 7 or 10 years? nah, i don't think you'd have the patience to do that. and worst case scenario is if you keep moving from one company to another you might get stuck as FO for the rest of your career. so let's just study our books man, and get our upgrade here in EY. once you get the bars, then it's up to you if you want to wait to be CCQd or move somewhere else.

jet-lag

25th Apr 2008, 16:04

zorry for me englich but i was writing bery fazt.
I learn englich heere in pprun.:rolleyes: Would you like to be my teacher???

Agree. Command is Command And I would never say no. But Again why, always the small one get less...

EY346Driver

25th Apr 2008, 16:16

If you want Comand you better start spelling it right mate:ok:

Command

Bredrin

25th Apr 2008, 18:21

Strange though. You need 1000 hours more to upgrade at EY than you need as a DEC.

airpilot_A3xx

26th Apr 2008, 17:47

Relief

Do you have a doubt in the quality of training on the A320 or just the whole of EY? It Seem that you are not happy about the quality of training that the cadet’s will be receiving from the same department that do/will be upgrading everyone else!!!:suspect:

Just to remind you, once a pilot cleared on line flying it means that he has satisfied all the requirements to do so. As stated earlier we pilots fly cockpits, size doesn’t matter on this one… :{

jet-lag

26th Apr 2008, 21:45

ha ha ha !! DO you think that 500 hrs + line training makes a new copilot
READY... no way. I was not few years ago. By the way I did not come from a low cost.
Let s see the results of the cadet program.

A320PLT

26th Apr 2008, 22:46

You guys are killing me with the english tests :D I did need a laugh this afternoon and it was provided. I probably have the worst spelling of everyone on this forum and I was born and raised in the states.

NoJoke

26th Apr 2008, 23:19

Good Joke. Who cares a kucf about spelling? I can not understand what the person in the LHS is saying - apart from the fact He says - I earn FIVE TIMES MORE THAN YOU

A320PLT

27th Apr 2008, 00:01

That screams volumes doesn't it??

jet-lag

27th Apr 2008, 08:41

Hey Guys...please FOCUS... F/O get(earn,make,do or whatever) more MONEY( salary,Euros,Dollars...) than a A320 Cap. And the Company must to do something abou it. You can say many things about laws and payment system but you still get less pay.
About spelling...I don't care. Many of us speak languages 10 times better or more complicate than the F:mad: English.So what's the matter.
HALAZ !!!! Because of some Perfect English speakers we have Problems like unfair salaries,Rosters and Housing. Upsss I forgot REPORTING CULTURE. that's all folks:ok:

SandDragon

27th Apr 2008, 11:19

Hey guys ,
OM-A Chapter 5.1.3.1.

Cross Fleet Upgrades to another aircraft type That has COMMAND VACANCIES will be available to all suitable FO.
Is this the Case of the A-320 (command Vacancies .) If so, Why will they CCQ on A-330 for later Upgrade on 330 instead of CCQ for upgrade to 320.

Airbus guys came for the WB and the money expectations .
What else would you have left home for .
They are creating a get Command and Leave atmosphere .
Will this help a company with expectations to Grow . Having people cominmg in and leaving the next day !

Like someone said , Into the books for the command and i didnt really think i would have to brush up the CV that fast.

Fly safely,:ok:

jet-lag

27th Apr 2008, 16:02

Dear Relief

Thanks for your very assertive point.
DEC should have at list the minimun Req. that the EY F/O need to have to be Upgraded.
It is weird to have Dec with really minimun Exp. They come from Low Cost or new companies, who knows what kind of Stdrs they have....:confused:
So it is really easy to get piss....well keep the faith.

BCF Breath

27th Apr 2008, 16:13

Relief

I don't know where you are getting your info re fleet numbers from, but there are 2 A340-600s arriving (late) this year and 2 A330 in early next year.

Where you got 13 from beats me...?

A320s - well that's anyones guess.....

Jetjock330

27th Apr 2008, 16:26

An A320 is big compared to this little thing (http://www.jetphotos.net:80/viewphoto.php?id=6228780&nseq=0) .Enjoy the command on the "big A320" then.

airpilot_A3xx

27th Apr 2008, 17:48

Relief

I think you need a hug mate ;) from what I know all DEC on the A320 so far have more AIRBUS hours than the 5500 mentioned, I came across 4 of them who are current on A320 & A330 from GF as they were CCQ'd (both seats as well). The B777 will be recruiting F/O’s then move them to airbus as they approach command easily me hope :E The money issue is the big one and we will all have a round at captain’s arm on May 13th.:ok:

Relief

29th Apr 2008, 14:05

Airpilot_A3xx

Listen mate. You are the living example of what is happening to Etihad.

You came from Gulf Air as a DEC and within a few months you are trying to sc:mad: everyone. No wonder why you are so happy with the new policy. What really upset me is the way you are using Pprune. At your GF times some were using Pprune to balance the negative comments and to cover up what management was doing. That’s why everyone knows who you are. How else would you get promoted if management didn’t knew who you are and what you post? How else would you come here? Well guess what mate? This is not GF and certainly Abu Dhabi is not Bahrain. Coming here just to s:mad: your colleagues is a no no. Your friends might be living soon and then you will be left alone you know. The short history of EY has shown many times that what goes around comes around.

The question about the B777 was who is going to fly the B777 from the LEFT seat whenever there are vacancies from resignations, retirements, additional aircrafts etc. And since you are ex GF then tell us what the GulfAir upgrade requirements for the A320 are. Why EY requirements have to be so high compare with Gulf Air and other Airlines.

Enjoy captain’s arm on May 13th.

BCF Brief

The number comes from the latest Paris Air show order. I don’t have access to the delivery schedule as we are not kept in the loop. What I know is from what was sent to us which is a copy of what was sent to the newspapers at that time. As you said deliveries will start later this year and I presume that deliveries will continue next year maybe also the year after and so on. The first A319 has arrived with a second one following very soon. There are rumors that we are getting 2 more A320 but then again who know.

airpilot_A3xx

29th Apr 2008, 17:26

:ouch: you hurt my feelings Relief... keep it on the green dude :ok:

alghazal

30th Apr 2008, 09:49

Aggree !!!!

The only comment I could make on this, is that the ball is already in our management's hands, and long time ago.

Nothing should change for better, it never did.

Expect worse and you won't be disappointed.

Chinese airlines added 1 more month salary yearly.... slowly coming up.....

Relief

30th Apr 2008, 23:32

A346Driver

You wrote:
“Forgive me but I fail to see the argument behind command directly on a widebody when the airline now has a narrow body fleet. The natural course of progression is F/O widebody, Command narrow body then promotion to Command widebody. Its how its been done for years all over the world and for a good reason.”

You fail to see because you don’t want to see or you haven’t got the ability to see. Airlines who operate only wide bodies like Emirates, Singapore, Cathay, Virgin Atlantic etc give wide body Command as a natural progress. Others do it more or less as per the natural course of progression that you descript but this is not what we do. What we do is that we upgrade our FOs on the A320 and at same time we are getting more DECs on the wide bodies. What we do we get direct FOs on the wide bodies while our A320 FOs are waiting for the promised MFF to happen. What we did last summer is that we stopped upgrading because we were to busy training non type rated DECs and DE FOs on wide bodies.

“I know of no DEC's (including myself) who came to EY with the minimum hour requirements. The minimums are there to satisfy insurance requirements but that certainly does not mean that EY employ DEC's with those minimums. My total time is over 15,000 with more than 6000 PIC on A340 and no DEC on my course was below 10,000.”

You must be happy that your hours got you a DEC position with EY. However this is not how it works with Airlines that claim to use Best Practices. By what you say we should get Pilots with thousands of hours to replace all of us. Then we would find one with 15500 hours to replace you and then you can go and jump on top of BA seniority and fly the A380 from the left seat.

“Gentlemen Command is Command, be it on A320, A330 or B777. To be able to get an upgrade withing 3 years is a marvel and something you should not frown upon (and yes I do understand that most F/O's came with heaps of experience to EY, I just dont understand why you dont extend the same courtesy to the guy on your left) . I've been flying 23 years and saw my first jet command 13 years ago. Please do the math.”

Big empty words. Most of EY FOs have been waiting as much as you did. Some they have been FOs for as much as your entire career. Some of them came here because they were promised an early wide body command. These FOs did not start their flying career 3 years ago.

“My intetion is not to show any disrespect to any of my peers but I certainly expect the same treatment. To generalize and say that DEC's have no standards and come from low costs is simply utter rubish. If this is the case I suggest you report each and every case to the safety department. You have valid salary arguments with the airline but knocking your colleagues is not really going to get you anywhere.”

I don’t know to whom you are referring to but if you think that loco airlines like Easyjet, Jetblue and Southwest have no standards then you know nothing about aviation. Easyjet standards in particular are second to no one. I don’t know anyone who left those loco airlines to join EY and I don’t see why they should. Do you?

EY346Driver

1st May 2008, 03:13

Relief, thanks for the detailed reply. You are right that airlines like Singapore, Virgin Atlantic and Cathay upgrade on wide body aircraft, but that is because they do not have anything else. We now do and what are we supposed to do with the A320? The natural progression is now for EY to upgrade on the A320 then as you guys gain time in the left seat promote you to the bigger aircraft.

Big empty words. Most of EY FOs have been waiting as much as you did. Some they have been FOs for as much as your entire career. Some of them came here because they were promised an early wide body command. These FOs did not start their flying career 3 years ago

I think I mentioned that already when I clearly acknowledged that most guys have heaps of experience. Still in aviation sadly it's pot luck, if you're in the right place at the right time you get lucky, others wait for ever. But that doesnt mean that a Command on an A320 is any less than a Command on an A330 mate.

In closing I would really like to wish you and all the other guys all the best. I have no gripe with you, I'm just trying to say that there is nothing wrong with a Command on the A320. Look forward to it, it's a new rating and frankly a very popular one that can nowadays land you any job you like.

Cheers

Mr. Frodo

2nd May 2008, 11:54

EY346Driver,

Very well said! Cheers! :ok:

goeasy

2nd May 2008, 14:58

I agree too, 346Driver.

Sadly here there is a blurred line between salary and allowances. A320 drivers may well not earn the allowances, but then dont thave the down route expenses either! The allowances are only supposed to be reimbursements for expenses, therefore not so applicable in 'take home' salary comparisons...?

Please dont shoot me down, I am just trying to apply some logic. Or am I barking?

alghazal

2nd May 2008, 17:43

Don't get me wrong, to me it's just a matter of what has been promised in the interview process.

People have chosen to leave a decent job, for most of them, with command propsectives and REAL seniority lists and rules, to come in EY to get a widebody command within 2 to 3 years, AS IT WAS PROMISED IN THE INTERVIEWS .

Now, you tell them you will get command on an A320,on which they could have had command in their previous airline,and most probably earlier and in better conditions........... What do you expect ??????

For the guys who are joining now, or think about joining,that's the best lesson ever : That can happen again and for worse, so :

GO EK !!!!! and get 14 weeks basic salary bonus !!!!!

alghazal

2nd May 2008, 17:45

And a widebody command after 3 to 4 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alghazal

2nd May 2008, 17:47

And a proper accomodation !!!!!

And a pension fund !!!!

And a proper medical insurance !!!!!

And currency exchange rate protection !!!!!!

And crew transportation !!!!!

etc......

SandDragon

2nd May 2008, 18:20

Sorry buddy , but logic does not really apply here.
its a personal choice and even if you do have expenses ,tell me, do you really spend it all .

So what is left you take home . This Makes a great difference on a yearly basis.

Command is Comand that is correct but most of us traded 1 year wait at home for 2 year to upgrade on W/B.

Nobody has been able to say why the 777 guys get to CCQ to 330 for their command and not the 320.

Do they all have previous bus experience .

Can you trade a bus F/O with over 5 years exp.( for command on 330 with a 777 F/O with 6 months RH seat .

Where does LOGIC APPLY ?

Its true you have to be at the right place at the right time .

I believe we all were a matter of years ago and believed what we were told and took the decision to come . .

Has GCAA approved the Mixed Fleet 320/330 .

These are issues that may calm the waters and create some expectations towards a better career option .

Safe flying :ok:

SandDragon

2nd May 2008, 18:50

YES ALGHAZAL ,

I have to agree with you .

Guys its a better option to look else where ,not only for your career but your lifestyle .

HOUSING not enough and not what you expect .
UPGRADES , not on what was offered W/B .
SALARY , not enough Cost of living rising.

EY346Driver

2nd May 2008, 21:30

Well said jet-lag I agree with you. Pay certainly has to be addressed as our do our T&C.

Pay increments to meet inflation
Housing
Schooling
Real Firm leave tickets
Pension Plan

Alghazal you do have a point about promises made at the interview but still I feel the upgrade schedule is more important than the actual fleet of upgrade. In other words they should not compromise the rate of upgrades with DEC's. DEC's like myself should only cover excess command requirements that command upgrades cannot cover.

I just hope that our management does not make empty promises about the MFF 320/330 because that will have a very negative effect.

wadefac

2nd May 2008, 22:08

I'm sure other professions like doctors ans lawyers have forums like this to cry and wine all day long..........pilots really are pathethic.......stop embarrassing me.......but then wadefac :{

Relief

3rd May 2008, 17:32

EY346Driver

“In closing I would really like to wish you and all the other guys all the best. I have no gripe with you, I'm just trying to say that there is nothing wrong with a Command on the A320. Look forward to it, it's a new rating and frankly a very popular one that can nowadays land you any job you like.”
I wish I could accept your wishes but then again…
…What if I already have the rating? What if I was already a Captain on the A320 or any other narrow body jet before I joint EY. What if I have chosen EY based on what was promised and on what was on offer at that time. Maybe I did not join as a Captain simply because I did not met the requirements for a wide body DEC at that time. You see is not that simple.

“DEC's like myself should only cover excess command requirements that command upgrades cannot cover.”

For once we both agree on something. Unfortunately once again there are ZERO (0) upgrades for May while DECs are still arriving in big numbers. Our training department is very busy clearing DECs instead of upgrading FOs. Mind you this is applicable to all fleets including the 320.

EY346Driver

3rd May 2008, 18:16

Relief do you get any "relief" taking out your frustration on me? I sure hope so mate.

Let me understand your logic here. You dont like DEC's, fine, you have every right to, but that really means that when you get your upgrade in EY you will stay till retirement. Because according to your beliefs you must not go elsewhere as a DEC and take (according to you) someones upgrade.

What if I already have the rating? What if I was already a Captain on the A320 or any other narrow body jet before I joint EY.
If you left an A320 command for an A330 f/o position then you need to take a close look at your thought process (to put it very lightly)

Grow up mate, stop your bitching and whinning and get on with it.

boeing-man

3rd May 2008, 19:20

No upgrades in May?? Well that is not true. They are upgrading the boeing boys and yes, it's 330 for them.

jet-lag

4th May 2008, 05:29

Boeing Man.....

THERE WAS NO UPGRADES ON MAY !!!!

They Just finish Command course from the last month.

Relief

4th May 2008, 15:27

EY346Driver

I have nothing against you or any other DEC mate. It’s the concept which is wrong. Sorry if we do not agree but when I came here it was a career movement or I thought it was. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

I am sure a lot of people have found our posts very useful. What gives me great “relief” is when I inform others about the real working conditions. Our main source of pilots nowadays is from airlines like Air Arabia and Qatar. These poor guys have the wrong perception about EY. They think that we have better salary better working conditions and command prospect is better. The EY recruitment team is lying as usual. They are promising 320/330 MFF for those that are coming as A320 DECs while working conditions are getting worst and worst day by day.

EY346Driver

4th May 2008, 16:55

Relief well said, now you're talking.

Sadly I dont have first hand experience in promises made in the interview. I was told by the guys on my course who are f/o's that they were told to expect about 3 years for command. I also agree that when you've accepted a job knowing that in 3 years you are eligible for a w/b command and suddenly that becomes a n/b command it's both frustration and dissapointing.
However if the expansion plan they have in mind materializes (order of about 100 aircraft soon coming) then I seriously doubt that any of you guys will be flying for long the A320.

Cheers

jet-lag

4th May 2008, 19:23

Guys I think that we can stop this subjet.

People will be Upgrade on 320. May be a few will get 330 there is always

lucky guys...

After all this thread conclusion are

1. Upgrades are coming :ok:

2. Salary have to be improve or fixed ( huge distance 320=340)

320 cap. will never get 50k in a overtime month....:{

3. Command it is command !!! so Take it. :)

4. Many lies on Iterviews :suspect:

5. PLEASE, MINIMUN DECs !!!!!

Fly safe !!!!!

A320PLT

4th May 2008, 20:18

I keep reading things like "lies on the interview" If something is that important to you have them put it in writing...

boeing-man

5th May 2008, 21:22

Why should boeing pilots not upgrade on 330. Why compare a 6 year to a 6 month pilot on type? After all, the boeing guys are ALL more senior to be upgraded. If the acft types we reversed, I wonder if airbus pilots would be bitching about upgrading on boeing types?

After all, isn't it bad enough we have to re-train for airbus?? :mad:

PS : I'm sure you are now convinced about the boeing guys upgrading on 330 in May.

sec 3

5th May 2008, 21:53

Being a boeing man, I would think your english should be alot better. Really hard to make out what you're babbling about. :confused:

SandDragon

6th May 2008, 01:29

YES you may be Senior Pal , BUT OM-A clearly STATES .

That Crossfleet Upgrades shall be done on Fleets with Vacancy .
SO that is A-320 Period .

So , Again Management is not complying with what is in Black and White or at least they havent clearly said so.
I may be mistaken and you will be going to A-320

After some of you 777 guys have already gone to airbus recently there have been suddenly U/G vacancies on 777 . Is this not so ?

This is just bad Planning and it seems its gonna continue .

Have fun with the Airbus .:ok:

SandDragon

7th May 2008, 22:25

Hey Cantilever you are right ,

Now that you mentioned it . They should be transparent and publish the Seniority List of the F/O only with their actual hours .

This way at least we all know who is next in line .

safe Flying:ok:

Relief

9th May 2008, 10:31

Cantilever
You are spot on.

A320PLT
From your comment I can see that you have no idea about Middle East. You can get whatever you want in writing but that doesn’t mean much.
Let’s read again the new “written” policy below:
"As part of a longer term strategy the A320 fleet has been selected as general base model for direct internal command courses. This rule applies for command courses starting in May 2008".
"Herewith Etihad follows general best practice of the major carriers of the world and will be able to cover the steady demand on the rapidly growing A320 fleet. In any case internal upgrades should have priority over the hiring of direct entry captains whenever possible."VPFO( Acting ) ...
Now let’s start counting how many DECs will join the A330/340 fleet after this new policy was introduced.
Our managers don’t even follow their own “written plans”. Few months ago when the A320 was introduced they came up with a policy of no upgrades due to “safety” concerns. Then of course most A320 FOs were asking the obvious: How are we going to be upgraded if there are no upgrades on the A320? Our managers’ answer: All upgrades will be on the base model, the A330. This is what they were giving in writing up to one day before they sent us this crap.
Also few months ago they sent us their “written” plan which was about the number of upgrades per month including B777 FOs. All upgrades were for the A330to cover a 6 month period Jan-June. Well here you go. Now we have a new “written” plan-policy right in the middle of the previous one.

SandDragon
All B777 FOs who are due for upgrade will fly the A330 from the right seat for 6 months in order to gain the necessary Airbus experience. After the 6 months it will be left seat A320 for them.

SandDragon

9th May 2008, 20:12

Hi ,Relief ,

At least you are clearing a panorama that should have come out in a transparent way from our management.

Thks,

A320PLT

9th May 2008, 20:58

A320PLT
From your comment I can see that you have no idea about Middle East. You can get whatever you want in writing but that doesn’t mean much.

No I don't so I look to you guys in the mix to let me know. Thanks by the way. I don't understand the whole fly in a aircraft six months in order to upgrade in it. I guess one of the many differences over there.

wackosmiles

10th May 2008, 16:59

EY346Driver

Isn`t changing upgrades from 330 to 320 an erosion of terms and conditions already :confused:

I feel sorry for the FOs who have to upgrade on 320 (workwise, money, lifestyle etc.) and remember EY has no approval from GCAA for MFF 320/330 up to now. What kind of FOs does EY want to attract now when they have to wait 3-4 years (at least) for command on the 320, when you can have it on a WB down the road?

As you say :Things should be getting better not worse.

By the way :

Command 320 - CCQ 330 = 15 days ground course / 18 sim. sess.
Command 330 - CCQ 320 = 10 days ground course / 14 sim. sess.

But who cares about money - can`t be stabilized early enough on approach!

Sir Osis of the river

10th May 2008, 18:27

Wako,

That sounds like an awful lot of sim sessions? Does not sound right to me

Beechslave

10th May 2008, 21:19

Any chance on getting on as an A320 FO with the mins posted on the website?

wackosmiles

11th May 2008, 04:37

Sir Osis,

Have a look into EY OMD - you do the math (ETOPS taken into account):ok:

Relief

17th May 2008, 09:20

Boeing-man, so the base aircraft is now changed back to the 330, correct? Well if it’s true then we have a new record then. The previous policy was published less than a month ago and is now changed again.

I have to agree with Sandyballs on this. The way they do things is a disgrace. Our future depends on how many applications from DECs they have at any given time. It looks like they are unable to attract more DECs for the time being so they have decided to keep their options open. No wonder why they do not want to have a clear policy on this.

Never mind I don’t really care anymore. I enjoy watching all the new DECs who complain and cry like babies after they realize what they have done to their self’s and their family by coming here. I hope they enjoy the new company housing in mussafa industrial camp.

NGO

19th May 2008, 00:13

Guys can anyone tell me about the interview process with etihad please anyhing will help. Thanks

EY346Driver

19th May 2008, 01:51

Relief,

I enjoy watching all the new DECs who complain and cry like babies after they realize what they have done to their self’s and their family by coming here.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

With statements like that you just show everyone how immature and childish you are.

alghazal

19th May 2008, 09:31

Never wish for others what yoiu wouldn't want for yourself.

DECs make their decisions based on the market and the companies'offers.
Why should you blame them ????

I'm not one of them, but maybe I'll have to become one , one day, you never tknow what future is made of.

You should blame the management that is doing this instead of promoting their own people..... Guess what, they don't care , coz you're already in EY, and they don't need to attract you again.
They trapped you already, and they need to trap more, by using DEC, upgrades, widebody mirage offers, keeping in mind that they never gonna give anybody anything.

We have to stand up and all together, even if I know that it's an expat and individual world. EY succeed in making all people angry, sothat it makes it easier to have more and more people aiming for the same goal

Have EY changed shorlty or Leave

That's the first time in years that I can see such a wide disappointment , nad more important a silent and strong will .

EY Mgt knows, and the more silent it is, the worse it is for them as they don't know what's going on.....
A lot of guys meet already together , moaning , but having common thoughts and decisions, and yes Mgt has to worry.......

Can't wait to see that...it takes time but it's cooking so hard

Jumbo Wambo

19th May 2008, 13:31

Since we're inexperienced to cmd widebody's how is farting around to BAH, DOH and MCT etc gonna help us fly to Europe, USA and Ozz? Also don't see EK having much of a prob upgrading their F/O's onto the widebodies. Fair enough they have nothing smaller but the point is they are not having any issues upgrading directly onto the widebody. Come up with a better excuse!!!!!!!!!!!

Relief

19th May 2008, 20:33

EY346Driver

When are you going to realize that our working conditions get worst because of us. We are our own enemies. WHY? Because we are accepting what is unacceptable. Those people who are willing to go so low and compromise their families they deserve it. MOST OF THEM HAVE A CHOICE. They know what is on offer. The MUSSAFA INDUSTRIAL 10 TOWER ETIHAD MODERN CAMP is the only available company provider accommodation. Every time a new Joiner signs in, our managers get together and have a good laugh. Maybe they are right to do so. I was lied and fooled by promises made by them but I had never nor will I ever compromise my working conditions, my lifestyle and my family if I know from before.

You say I am “immature and childish”. Well at least I have the decency to tell people the truth and give them the facts. Whether is about bad housing, bad rostering or DEC policy, it is all WRONG. If something is wrong then it’s wrong. It doesn’t matter what the excuse is. Most people prefer to listen now and understand later. Let it be then.

NG_Kaptain

19th May 2008, 21:15

I believe that just the idea of having to live in Mussafa will stop any applicant from accepting the job. If I were to be moved to Mussafa I would resign with NO notice.

EY346Driver

19th May 2008, 23:02

Cantilever I dissagree my friend, the best way is to get rid of little pratts like Relief who are a disgrace to this profession.

Luckily enough he doesn't represent the vast majority of our F/O's who are mature professionals and get on with the job without crying like little girls.

When we act in the manner that relief does how on earth do you expect management to take us seriously? They sit back and enjoy how we work hard to beat each other to death.

alghazal

20th May 2008, 03:46

It doesn't change how EY is behaving.....
We, pilots, are an average sample of population, with different characters, wills, aspirations, life goals, cultures....and so on and on....
So Management is.....

BITE System

20th May 2008, 03:49

Not a good situation……Our recruitment department did after all attract these applicants by telling them that they could expect a wide body command within 2 to 3 years, but having said that, I do agree that a command on a A320 is a good start.

I think the best way to change the way some look at the A320 fleet is to make it more attractive…….a sector allowance would be a good start, (maybe the boys in the office should have a look at Easy / Air Arabia’s website for information on how to implement a sector allowance) this would make the A320 more attractive! And don’t forget about the cabin crew, they stand to lose quite a bit of the readies as well.

Relief

20th May 2008, 14:12

Don’t make fool of yourself. Your “big red fonts” won’t prevent me from posting the FACTS. You are wasting a lot of energy writing meaningless posts. Our future colleagues don’t care if my balls are big or small. And certainly don’t care if my command would be on the big or the small Bus. What they are interested to know among others is how their new company provided accommodation will look like, where is located and most important what kind of lifestyle they will enjoy. They are interested to know of our managers style and if policies are consistent. They are interested to know the percentage of DECs Vs UPGRADES.
It is always a combination of all of the above plus some other things (roster, pension fund, etc) that make an Airline good or bad. It is never one thing alone. The only thing you seem to mention in most of your posts in this forum is money.
Nevertheless, your input is very valuable. So please let us know of your thoughts about the new Company provided accommodation.

Now about balls again. Bellow is what I said earlier in this thread. It is always nice to read before you post.

You see I don’t like to discuss this kind of issues on the internet. In fact I think it is wrong and I never thought that I would be doing that before I join EY. But I have no choice when I see posts like yours and when our bosses don’t want to listen or don’t care. Then discussing it here is our only hope. And to be fair I don’t know who is behind this new policy but I am sure all of them visit PPrune.

It was not just me who went to see the “Bosses” in the office. And I have already posted the outcome:

Our future depends on how many applications from DECs they have at any given time. It looks like they are unable to attract more DECs for the time being so they have decided to keep their options open. No wonder why they do not want to have a clear policy on this.

EY346Driver

20th May 2008, 15:40

Can you then please explain this comment you made, because either I don't understand your english or you have a selective memory.

I enjoy watching all the new DECs who complain and cry like babies after they realize what they have done to their self’s and their family by coming here

Each and every post you make expresses your discomfort with us DEC's. I suggest you pack your diapers and find an airline that does not employ DEC's to solve your problem.

camelbreath

20th May 2008, 16:00

Well Im guesiing that at least 70% of EY Capts are/were DEC....does that mean he is pissed at all of us!? :}

DoctorEcam

20th May 2008, 19:06

Hi guys

i would be very pleased if someone knows about etihad requirements for F/O.Do they require the full atpl???I am still with the frozen atpl but I am going to unfreeze it in the next few months...How is life on the small bus there???Please do not tell me that everything is a huge mess like in the other threads.:}

All the best
Doc

noflare

21st May 2008, 06:23

I am certain they will require full ATPL:ok:

Jetjock330

21st May 2008, 07:55

Must have full ATPL.

EY346Driver

25th May 2008, 02:41

Relief,

This is getting real tiring and frankly I don’t want to continue arguing with the likes of you.

It’s a pretty simple matter here my boy, you cannot build from the ground up in a matter of four years an international airline with over 40 aircraft without DEC’s. If you can understand that fine, if not then I fear you should return to your toys and let the grown ups do the talking.

This July they will announce an aircraft order of around 100 aircraft, how exactly do you think they can crew these aircraft? Even if we upgrade all f/o’s (including you God forbid) they still aren’t enough.

The fact of the matter is that in every airline there is a small bunch of spoilt little brats that whine and bitch about everything. You are a shinning example of just that. Even if you get your upgrade on the A340 you’ll still find something to bitch and whine about because you’re a miserable little sod.
To make your despicable little life seem just a bit better you find comfort in seeing your colleagues who you envy because they are better qualified than you suffer because of the company housing. How pathetic that makes you look.

Now I have some good news for you. I have packed my diapers just in case. It might be sooner than later before I move on. EY don’t need professional and loyal employs

If you are implying that you are such professional then yes for once we agree, EY doesn’t need the likes of you so I’m really glad you’ve packed your diapers. If only your next outfit knew what gem they’re getting.

In the meantime be a good boy and try not to throw all your toys from the pram.