Becoming a SIA pilot.

[muhdzailan]

I am Muhammad Zailan and I am studying in computer engineering at Temasek Polytechnic. My ambition is to be a pilot of Singapore Airlines but, the only thing is that I obtained a D7 for English Language in my GCE"O" Levels. Therefore, I did not obtain a credit in my English Language.I am very worried now. Will I be accepted as a pilot of Singapore Airlines? or what should I do to achieve my ambition as a pilot of Singapore Airlines?

[a330]

don't worry too much .. have you applied to SQ yet ? try applying to them 1st and see what they say . i think you should be applying for cadet pilot right ? or try calling them up and ask .. but remember don't ask silly questions ..

cheers mate :)

[Hermie]

Muhd Zailan,

In Life There Is Hope, In Hope There Is Life

So don't despair ! Since the minimium requirements to enter to SQ as a Cadet Pilot is 5 'O' Levels in one sitting. So if you are going to redo your English and combine both results that'll be two sittings. I assume you are only 18/19 and there is still so much time left. Prepare yourself to retake your O's again, all 5 subjects. And you when you are done with your Poly Diploma, I can say you are on the path, at least !

Have faith and All the Best ! :)

Best Regards,
Herman :)

-------------------------
Ad Astra Per Aspera
To The Stars, Through Any Difficulties

[combi pilot]

MZ,

You should ideally complete your studies first before applying. A poly diploma is acceptable should do you fine but if you're really worried about your english results, I'd advise you to resit the exam privately.

I've also heard that requirements are for applicants 26 years and above (judging that you're still studying at a polytechnic, you can't be 26 yet?) Nevertheless, give it a shot but don't be too disappointed if you don't get accepted. THere are many other ways to learning flying. This is just one avenue. Good luck!

[SlimShadey]

Muhd Zailan,

You should do okay applying with your with your Temasek Dip. It's not difficult to get in these days as there is a shortage of pilots viz-a-viz pilot trainees in the aviation industry.

Yeah, get your application on the way first and see what they say...

Cheerios.

[crl]

Muhdzailan,
I will suggest that you try improve your spoken and written English with or without sitting for the exam again, this is especially important when it comes to interview. If you can speak well enough to convince them that your grade doesn't matter, they will let you go for written test with your poly diploma.
So, some preparations are definitely recommended...
Rgds,
CRL

[This message has been edited by crl (edited 14 June 2001).]

[Aeronort]

I am an Aeronautical Engineering student at Sydney uni. I too would like to become a pilot for SIA. My mum is Sinagporean but I was born in Australia. Is there any chance that I can get a cadetship after gaining PR???

[crl]

Aeronort,
Have you checked on your NS obligations and exemptions on returning to Sin? If one of your parents is Singaporean, it will be wise for you to find out your "status" before hand.
Anyway, you are most welcomed to contact me directly if you wish for more info.
Rgds,
CRL :)

[Aeronort]

crl,
please email me. I am keen to find out more info about the cadetship.

[boeingstearman]

one of the requirements if u are singaporean is to be at least 25 1/2 yrs old.
have u done your ns already ??
it would do your chances a lot of good if u went and got your degree, i could be wrong but it is one of the major factors if u don't have any flight experience.

[New York Pilot]

Dear Aeronort and Muhdzailan,

I congratulate and respect both of you for your ambitions. However, please, do yourself a big favor and throughly read with in this Far East forumn the 5 March posting "Thoughts from an almost SIA Pilot".

Not to discourage anybody but please read this and be truely informed. SIA is of the opinion that they can do anything they want and people will still want to fly for them. Somehow, I just don't feel that way.

Much luck and preserverance to all...

[ichewa]

hi ppl, am really glad that there's a forum like for those whom are interested to join SQ as finding info about flying in singapore is quite difficult. thanks guys
i'm currently doing ns and am about to start looking for a uni. i've heard quite abit about massey offering BAV, bach of aviation. any comments from anyone? comments on the degree, is it worth the $$ or should i go for a general engine degree? if i were too join SQ with BAV, which part of the training do i start from? could i get a loan to pay off my study loan while drawing that miserable pay of a cadet? and for medical history, i've passed airforce pilot's medical but torned my ankle ligament while i was back at OCS after i've failed air grading. would that be a problem to pass caas's med? and what if my ankle has been repaired?
one last question, if i were to fly as a bush pilot, would my flight time be credited?
hee hee.. think thats quite abit of messy questions... if there's anyone out there to answer these Qs...... pls...??

thanks

[Sunny]

Hi Ichewa,
Getting a degree at Massey would be a good move but would not ensure a place in SQ.
But if you do get the degree & ATPL, you would go to the Learjet phase. Not sure about your medical situation. About the bush pilot thing, If you go to Massey, there would not be a need for that but it would be a good experience.

[boeinglover]

Yo Sunny,

Thanks for the tips you provided the other time, my friend who got chopped in the airforce made it through and currently in Seletar with the cadet scheme.

How's life at SQ, heard that they are removing all the A340, A310 fleet in the near future and standardising to 744 and 777 fleet.

Cheers,

[7times7]

boeinglover,

i know you might love boeing, same here, but i would not think SIA would put all the eggs in one basket. Need to make them compete for the best offer too. Politics might be a factor too.

[mktong]

hie Sunny or anyone can help.
what is the requirement to get into SIA Learjet phase? assumed that i have a FAA ATP but without a college degree?
by the way do i stand a chance to get into SIA as a direct entry flight crew?

[mktong]

PS: what is the eyesight requirement for SIA? as im perfect in my left eye,but -4.5 dioptres on my left,will this disqualify me?
many thanks in advance

[WLT]

Ichewa,

I just wanna point out again that a degree from Massey does not guarantee anything. It may help in getting an interview. My advice will be to get a degree that will help you get a good job if you fail the SQ interview. Good luck. It is still quite some time before you apply.

MZ,

Take it easy. Try for a spot in the RSAF first. If you are unsuccessful, at least SQ will know that you have passion for flying because your records will show that you tried for the RSAF. However, gotta wait till you are 26. A short wait. During that time, talk to as many pilots as possible and try to formulate what will be appropriate to say during the interview. I cannot stress enough to need for earnest, honest and humble answers in front of the panel. (the interview is a joke to the management captains and all they are looking for are answers that will please their ears)

As for all the anti-SIA postings, all I can say is that it is partially true but if you are seriously interested in flying and you are Singaporean, it is probably the only route. You have to realize that SQ will never pay as well as say, CX or BA. It is run like the military but it does offer a stable job and if flying is a passion, even better.

However, let me remind all the young and clueless guys who do not know what it is all about. If you are in it for the girls and money, you will be disappointed. Go be an investment banker or trader. If you are in it for the passion, you will be fine. However, gotta remind you that you will be treated like a dog during the 2.5 years of training. Gotta be prepared to eat the humble pie during that stretch.

Pardon my straight talking but I think any Singaporean who is in it will agree with me. Let me remind you that we are not expats and will never be. They have more choices. Your chance will come but only after seven years when the bond is served. However, will you then make the move when you have way too many commitments like wife, kids and housing loans? Too early for the aspiring young guns out there to think about this.

To all flying enthusiasts out there. Good luck and godspeed.

WLT

[boeinglover]

7times7: Interesting to know about. That's why they dumped the MD-11 deal for the A340 in the first place.

WLT: Nice posting and frank.

Cheers,

[Gnote]

Hey WLT, how's it going? Long time no chat. What have you been up to?

[ichewa]

thank you ppl.
just the other day, i happened to recce the roads around my camp area, found s'pore fly college, talked to this very helpful indian lady. was saying that i must inform caas or was it seek approval from them before leaving for studies. what is that all about?
Sunny, is it true that it is almost impossible to join other airlines other then SQ as an cadet? if so, why? if we're to join them, will still sign acontract of 7 -10yrs wat. don't see any reason why so.

anyway, sunny and wlt.. thanks for your time. smile

[WLT]

Gnote,

Glad you still remember! Things have been a little turbulent lately. Hope you are doing fine. Talk later.

Ichewa,

First, let me point out that SQ is the only major airline that bonds it cadets. For example, CX does not and you can understand why if you look at the benefits and pay structure (a SO in CX earns about the same as a 744 Captain if you throw in the housing allowance). Also, do not forget CX's ID90 compared to SQ's ID75 for ticket purchase. Therefore, the lack of a need to bond their cadets. However, we have to understand they are very different organisations. Like I said, these two airlines started different and have different cultures. It is unfair to say which one is better. Gotta be fair to SQ because it gives relatively good bonuses compared to others.

What that kind Indian lady said to you if I may help you understand better:

You should check with the CAAS what kind of ATPL they will accept for a one to one conversion for all the exam papers taken. If you are going to Massey, it should be fine because their students take the CAAS exams. If not, the CAAS only accepts the UK ATPL. More recently, the JAR ATPL but you have to double confirm. There are only a few schools that offer the complete training package from single engine flying to CRM in a modern jet sim. One of them will be OATS. Cannot remember the rest. There are so many ways to do it. Spend some time in PPrune and you will find out.

About joining cadet pilot programs with other airlines ... I think you will have to stop dreaming about that.

Feel free to post all your questions here. Will be glad to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

WLT

[ichewa]

hummmzzz....
so much for the idea of working aboard. guess will just have to carry on listening to my mum's naggings till i get my own place. #@$!$%#.....

WLT, so did you any doubts when you were about to sign your 1st contract?

i'm kinda like approaching a cross road, using maps to guide my way thru. feeling damn lost. also at same time afraid of wasting parent's savings. sigh......
money money money.......

[crl]

Don't mean to stray away from the topic;>
Boeinglover..
Thought SIA ditched MD11 for 744 due to the former lack of range and performace which in turn sealed the fate for MD11???
CRL :)

[training wheels]

Just out of interest, when you finish at Singapore Flying College, do you get a JAA or CAAS CPL/IR? And do you get Frozen ATPL with that?

[Sunny]

Hi BL,
Glad to hear that your pal made it into SFC.
Tell him to hang in there. The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train.

MKTONG,
About the FAA ATP, you really have to check with the personnel dept at SIA whether they accept it. I have some friends who have FAA licences and all they got was hours credited to them. Same thing with the eyesight. They may ask you to go for corrective surgery.

Ichewa,
What WLT said is right.. About what the indian lady said, apart from checking with CAAS, you should also check with SIA, (if you intend to seek employment with them), as they could inform you that they do not recognise your licence after you spend tons of cash obtaining it. (Get it in writing).

Cheers Guys,
Sunny

[Sunny]

Training wheels,
We get a PPL, CPL I/R and a frozen ATPL.

Regards,

Sunny

[boeinglover]

CRL: Nope, what I have learnt was that SQ placed the order for the MD-11s at first but when SQ requested for some technical aspect to be changed, MD overlooked or otherwise simply ignored and did not place enough emphasis on this important customer's requirement. Eventually the deal fell through and Airbus got themselves a good deal for their new A340 at that time. From then onwards, MDs sales went nose diving trend.

Sunny: I will remind him about that. No joke man, it is tough says my friend. Thanks.
By the way, you are right!!! Refractive surgery is now permitted in SIA. So there is finally hope to those without good eyesight to have their visual corrected and apply for pilot position at SIA.

Have a great day.

[ichewa]

Sunny,
i did once write to captain McCully about my interest in flying with SQ after my studies, asking him for advice on which degree course is relavent to flying, or which uni is recommended. the reply was that SQ is a commercial airline and not in a position to make recommendations to individuals on courses of study and institutions of higher learning for enrolment.
kinda think of it, quite stupid of me to ask him.
and as for getting a written letter from SQ, bearing the words "SQ recognises your licence...", how should i ask?

[boeingstearman]

from what i understand, the requirement to go direct to the learjet phase was a commercial licence from either massey or the united kingdom.must qualify though that the requirement are only for singaporeans.

don't think they give any exemptions for an faa licence other then crediting hours but i could be wrong they could have changed it in light of their current situation.


i have heard also that there are singaporean captains working for a number companies abroad.

[Sunny]

Hi Ichewa,
Try contacting the Personnel department, they should be able to give you more information.

As for the Learjet phase, unless I'm mistaken, it's mainly to train on SQ procedures.

Regards,
Chris

[crl]

To all wannabes on this thread,
So many questions had been asked about whether their licenses will be recognised/accepted by SQ or not. The safest way to deal with this issue is to give CAAS(65-5412482) a call and find out whether your license can be converted with minimum effort to a CAAS one. SQ only listens to them for obvious reasons, for those of you who hold FAA licenses you will most likely have to go through the "sufferings" in college.
As for the recruitment, after helping quite a few friends passing their interviews and training; I'm convinced that your aviation background has minimum effect in getting you through the selection process. If they want you, they will spend the money on you and put you in flying college.
BTW, if anyone has any problem with the bond imposed; please refrain from joining and look somewhere else. The terms/conditions are pretty clear and you don't have to sign the contract.
Lastly, Boeinglover: Thanks for clearing up the MD11 issue. :)
Cheers,
CRL ;)

[ichewa]

okie dokie.. thanks chris, wlt, clt and all.

[a330]

why SQ ? pay not too good also , and too much politics going around in the airline and too KIASU . requirements are also too high .

[mktong]

Sunny,thank you very much for the post.
i have a question for myself,i hope i could get a favourable answer from you guys.

i read a thread from UK CAA website ...here it goes...

Distant Vision

Your visual acuity (the ability to see letters on a chart at 6 metres) must be at least 6/9 in each eye separately and 6/6 using both eyes together, with or without glasses or contact lenses (correction). If you wear correction the refractive error must not exceed +3.00 to -3.00 dioptres in the most ametropic meridian (the worst axis - taking into account any astigmatism). Astigmatism must not exceed 2.00 dioptres. The difference in refractive error between each eye (anisometropia) must not be more than 2.00 dioptres.

okie...regarding the different refractive error betweeen each eye must not be more than 2 dioptres, but undesirely mine is more than 2 dioptres , with +0.5 on my right and -4.5 on my left ,the margin is far more than the 2 dioptres set by the CAA of UK ( or may be JAR too)...it does upset me very much because in my concern the CAAS follows the CAA UK route exactly,in this case will this disqualify me from getting a class 1 medical and getting into SQ.
and what is the dioptres limit present held by CAAS and Malaysian DCA?
i knew that im deep in trouble , i hope u guy can give me some appreciated helps and good news.

Many thanks and please in advance again.

and good luck for those trying hard to become a flight crew in SQ.

cheeers!

[boeinglover]

CRL: Hi ! No problem at all, it's my pleasure. Feel free to drop me a note anytime for a chat at [email protected]

Mktong: Why go through the trouble and worries of eyesight related problem. If possible try going for refractive surgery and as Sunny has already mentioned that SIA now accepts candidates who went through Lasik. New regulation. Even this year NDP Parade commander went for the short but costly operation!!! What can you say about it??? Also RSAF is hopeful in considering and approving getting their pilots with slightly poor eyesight to go for Lasik.

[mktong]

boeinglover:
Refractive surgery can be accepted for Class 1 and Class 2 medical certification, provided your pre-operative spectacle prescription is within -5.0 dioptres of short-sightedness (correction of long-sight or astigmatism is not accepted). Following the surgery, you will be made "temporarily unfit" (all classes) and will be required to have assessments at six months and 12 months post-operatively. Following a favourable outcome at the 12 month assessment, you may be found fit for medical certification. Please note that the CAA does not recommend refractive eye surgery for certificatory purposes, because vision can be adversely affected by the surgery.

probably refrative surgery would be the only alternative for me to persue my flying career in Singapore or Malaysia,but due to the acceptance of refrative surgery by the authorities today,refrative surgery could be me last but undesirable option.i hope i wont involve myself in a refrative surgery .
i would like to know that is there any changes to the +/- 3 dioptres limit ? if there is....it could benefit me alot.i hope to hear some good news from you guys.

im sorry for the troubles caused.
good luck to others,cheers!

[boeinglover]

Mktong: You are probably right about the eyesight issues with CAA. But please bear it in mind that if you fly for SIA they follow local CAAS regulation not the CAA. The best is still to check it up with CAAS at 65-5412482 regarding the eyesight requirement or you can also read up the Air navigation Order or the ANO for more clarification.

Right now SIA's eyesight requirement is at 6/36 without correction if I am not mistaken?? Can someone confirm on that please?

Mktong: Provided you can train your eye to be within the limit otherwise the next best alternative is to wait for SIA to be more lenient with their cadet pilot's visual requirement in the coming near future if you should not want to consider Lasik at all. Otherwise, Lasik is the only and faster way to get your eye limitation problem cured.

Cheers,

[ultrajetfuel]

Hi all,

A question about refractive eye surgery. I was told that there are a few kinds of refractive surgery. I am not sure which are the ones that are accepted. I know there is LASIK. How about the others?

The standard requirements are very different in other parts of the world.

Please provide some clues. Thanks.

ultra

[mktong]

boeinglover
can i write to u?
what is your email add?

[mktong]

Sunny....
can i have yours too?
cheers~

[boeinglover]

Hi Mktong, yes you are welcome to drop me a note anytime at [email protected]

Hear from you soon.

Cheers,

[mktong]

crl,
are you flying for SQ right now?

boeing lover,okie! the mail is on it's way

[crl]

Hi Mktong,
Yep. Just got back from a long operating pattern. Give and take, SQ is the best airline for us(you know what I mean...) at this point in time. Anyone disputes that, ask him/her which airline to go for and will be glad to check it out.
Drop me an email anytime at [email protected]
Boeinglover: Will be emailing you soon....
Rgds,
CRL :)

[Sunny]

MK,
Sure can lah, e-mail me at [email protected]
Cheers

[boeinglover]

Ultrajetfuel: Lasik is the most common or popular eye refractive surgery today as the recuperation period is much more shorter than the previous method. Also much lesser pain to undergo and can be completed in less than 15 mins.

But I would suggest that you check up with various doctors in your area on Lasik procedure and cost etc before deciding on what steps to take next. Hope that you make your best choice and achieve your objectives.

Good Luck,

[sunrise161]

Hi All,

I just want to know if any of you can shed some light as to how long would a "aspiring Cadet Pilot" with SQ have to wait for a reply from them from the date of completion of the medical check-ups. How long did u guys have to wait? Also heard that the OBS course is now conducted in Malaysia? How long do you have to spend in Jandakot, Perth? I have no flying experience whatsoever.

[No Cigar]

Yeah OBS is now held at Lumut in Malaysia. Quite a s#@$ hole compared to OBS Ubin. The jungle treks and peak acents were quite challenging and there were quite a few creepy crawlies to spend the night with.

But ultimately, you get close to the bunch of guys you'll be spending a substantial amount of time with and it all works out in the end and you look back on it and laugh.

I did not enjoy the course, but I enjoyed the group of guys I did it with and I'm enjoying working with them at the college. So I guess, OBS was not a bad thing afterall.

As for the waiting period, I waited 2 months, some of my course mate only a couple of weeks. But I think if the medical went well, it is only a matter of time. Let me know when you get in and I'll look forward to seeing you at the college.

Cheers
P.S. let me know before you leave for Lumut, there was a lot of things I wish I had there that I did not think to bring. I'll fill you in.

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: No Cigar ]

[DC]

No cigar, still remember me. Good to know that you made it. Anyway, took your advice . Trying to do my best and eventually one day I will fly right, hopefully. All the best.

[Hermie]

Anyway, here is a sad and tragic story I heard -
An enthusiast like some of us manage to persuade his dad to sent him to OATS to do his CPL/IR and Frozen ATPL. Those times, SQ Cadet Recruitment claim they recognised pilots esp. if they are from OATS. He came back with the licence and applied for SQ. I think most of you lads know how much it cost to a CPL/IR and ATPL Frozen in the UK !

Two bad blows in his life ! He didn't get it and after that his dad got a heart attack. Pity that bloke, wonder what he is doing now ?

---------------------------------------------

Regarding the eyesight requirement now, I heard it is 6/24 without corrective aid and 6/6 when corrected.

---------------------------------------------

To get a pilots licence is one thing, To be employed is another. Very true in the case of SQ

---------------------------------------------

All the Very Best to all future SQ Flightdeck Crews.

Best Regards,
Herman :D

P.S
Do correct me if
I'm wrong.

[Hermie]

Hi,

I just got back from the dreaded Tekong, boy did I miss alot of juicy stuff ! :p

Regarding licence conversion. I emailed the Flight Ops Section and this was the latest reply from them, 3mths ago. I hope it still stands, besides if you need further clarification do call them up.


Regarding your query, we will convert all valid ATPL from any ICAO contracting
states to a Singapore equivalent, provided the applicant fulfill the following
requirements :-

(a)Pass a Singapore Class 1 medical with a CAAS Designated Medical Examiner
(b)Pass the Singapore Aviation Law paper
(c)Pass the Human Performance & Limitations paper
(d)Pass a flight test with a CAAS Flight Examiner

There are more requirements to it, you'll have to call them up. This is just the basic !!

Applicants will be required to come in person to CAAS Flight Operations Section,
during normal office hours, with his original licences, medical certificate and
all flying logbooks (certified by the relevant authorities) for verification
purposes. All the above requirements must be completed (*) months prior to the
issue of the Singapore ATPL. All flying clubs which follows ICAO flying
requirements are acceptable for the conversion. CAAS have yet to approve any
flying schools which is 'recognised' for ATPL conversion. For further
information you may wish to contact Ms -- at tel : (65) 5412482 or fax (65)
5456519 or in person at :-

CAAS Flight Operations Section
#046-025 Changi Airport Terminal Two
Singapore 918141


Yours Sincerely

---------------
for DIRECTOR GENERAL of CIVIL AVIATION


Best Regards,
Herman :D

P.S
Do correct me
if I'm wrong.

[ 14 July 2001: Message edited by: Hermie ]