Vnukovo Madness!!

[L'Argonauta]

For the first time in my life passengers were on time, slightly in advance, door closed and everything was great ! weather was good no sequence at all on take off!!! i asked for start at 16.30 gmt....

"vnukovo ground ***412 infotmation K from Vnukovo 3 request start up clearence!"

reply:" **412 vnukovo ground STAND BY"
i thought everything was good and in one or two minutes i would have been cleared for start but....

at 16.40 i tried again my request, answer was still" STAND BY"

after 20 minutes my passengers became to get nervous and one of the came in the cockpit to ask what was going on...

i called on ground frequency again to get an estimate! reply:"STAND BY!"

in the mean time several pilots from Vnukovo 3 asked for start...

big mess! no departure, no take off, the airport seemed to be closed, i decided to call the handling agent!

"big problem sir! there will be a departing government flight, they don't know about the delay expected!"

no problem, i thought, i'm on ground, i have a lot of fuel, i can stay with my apu in my warm cockpit but what about the guy coming from europe with a small bizjet who is holding over somewhereNDB runnin short of fuel? because you have to know that there were no notams concerning that...

i guess they didn't asked themselves...anyway after one hour i tried again, and my voice that time was a little bit louder...

"***412 REQUEST AN ESTIMATE FOR START"
"***412 Vnukovo Ground (because you can tell everything about russian ATC but they are very precisely concerning call outs) STAND BY!!"

There is a special raccomandation for GA pilots: it's 3C CALM, COOL,COLLABORATIVE...
TRY THAT IN VNUKOVO IF YOU CAN...

i insisted" My passengers need to know at what time we can leave, pleeeeeaaaase!"

"*** 412 vnukovo ground, expect start in two three
(2\3) minutes.."

after 5 minutes i asked again....

reply:"***412 vnukovo ground, i said two three, 23 twenty three!!!"
:ugh:

ok, no problem guy, let's do that! calm, cool, collaborative but in the meantime my boss came up to me and said that was crazy and he were supposed to be in rome at a certain time and was incredible that we could not have an estimate and bla, bla, bla...a lot of money for that flight...we are in 2008...men on moon...tried to stay cool but i think it did't work so good but....

In the mean time i saw a 330 coming from the military parking and going down the runway very, very, very slowly!!! it seemd that there were hundreds eggs on the runway, he did a very good back track and once cleared for take off he desappeared in the clouds still very very very slowly....

it was tha man!!!

it was the government flight!!

now let's go!!!

but...

burn of hell!! hundreds of airliners appeared after the corner and a sequence of many many many planes were before us...vnukovo 3 was dismissed until even Vodkalemonandiceairlines was in flight!

my take off was two hours after my start up request...

carry on a lot of fuel next time you fly to vnukovo and always remember...

CALM

COOL

COLLABORATIVE

(if you can!!)


:p:p:p

[hawker750]

YEP
Pretty good for the most expensive airport to operate from in the World.
UUDD I think better.
We find a quick in and out at UUWW is about £2,300 now with an extra £900 for each night stop. Lets hear your horror stories on service and price

[buzzc152]

Business as usual then in Moscow.

I was there a few weeks ago (non APU), -5 degrees in cockpit. 90 mins between requesting start and getting start.

[Doodlebug]

Spent hours lounging around on board, the other day, seeing as the pax had let us know they'd be coming later. Usually I always accompany the pax into the terminal on arrival and meet them in the terminal on departure, but this of course is a horrifying thought to the KGB that runs Vnukovo, so we stays firmly ensconced aboard ol' faithful. Then: a nervous call from the aircraft manager: 'why aren't you ready?' - the pax had called him to say that they were being kept in the VIP-area because - wait for it - 'The crew was late arriving for the flight and were not ready.' :eek:
What had happened was that the slothful immigration-monkeys had failed to process our crew-passports in time, and we were the convenient (absent!) scapegoats! :mad:

Still better than Luanda, if only just :}

[His dudeness]

As said before, business as usal. My personal "record" was 6 hrs APU running, pax on board. The reply on: "VKO GND, XXXYYY?" was "STOP TRANSMITTING".
Had to deice,but that really worked after that delay.
The "funny" thing was, that the broker told the pax that it was our fault. So the guy was slowly getting mad in the back, I then had the ramp agent talk to him, as he didin´t speak english. Was nice to watch the ball getting into the brokers garden. He was really chewed by the pax on the phone (and I don´t speak russian...but one could tell what wass going on)

Had a 5 hrs wait in UUDD as well, so thats Russia / Moscow. To be fair, in that case apperently the ATC Radar / Computer broke down.

I still have a very good feeling when leaving their airpace, altough a lot of russians that I met are great guys.

[hawker750]

Recently one of our crew was "fined" $500 for not declaring his currency on arrival. The "fine" consisted of the crew member being asked to go by himself into an empty room and leaving the cash under a folder on the table. Has this happened to anyone else?

[L'Argonauta]

No!!! but in the past i had to sped my overnight on board because i didn't have any available pages for visa on my passport ( customs require a completely blank page because they put on it a huge sticker!! one trip-one sticker, it's crazy man!!!)...maybe my fault but it was the first time in my life!

[hawker750]

Reminds me of a T shirt I saw a guy wear in Nigeria "Happiness is V1 out of Lagos". We need one for Moscow saying "Happiness is Amdor going West"

[L'Argonauta]

Reminds me of a T shirt I saw a guy wear in Nigeria "Happiness is V1 out of Lagos". We need one for Moscow saying "Happiness is Amdor going West"


:p:p:p!!!!

[Wingletnut]

After an uneventful flt, London to Vnukovo, on finals (1.5nm out!) I was told by ATC the airport was closed, completely out of the blue with no warning. When asked when it will re-open they said they weren't sure, maybe an hour, so off we diverted.
Mind you it's nothing like the fun and games I've had in Belarus.....
Happy Days!

[init2winit]

Went to Vnukovo in the middle of January a couple of years ago.

We had to wait hours in the handlers portacabin to get our visas issued. The floor was soaking wet, it was -153,000 degrees celsius outside (or at least it felt like it!), it was getting dark, we were sitting on the filthy camp bed etc...

There was no indication of when we would get our visa's as the handler just kept telling us it would be about 5 mins.
Handler "We didn't know you were coming"
Capt. produced a fax from them showing confirmation of our handling request
Handler "Different shift worker"
Capt. "When will get our passports back"
Handler "Before the passport office shuts"
Capt. "When does it shut?"
Handler "It's shut now"
Capt. "Oh. I'm sorry I don't understand"
Handler "They need to open the office to shut it. They will do your visa when it opens and then they will shut it"

Cabin attendant didn't help when she asked if she could have "seasonal vegetables" for the return flight.

Keep 'em coming

[hawker750]

Init
As I mentioned on a previous post, get an annual multiple entry visa, we will not go to Russia now unless the crew have them. It does make life a lot easier (and cheaper). These visas are a P.I.T.A. to get but worth it

[Bus_Bar]

all concerned

visit www.anyvisa.co.uk (http://www.anyvisa.co.uk)

they provide multi entry Russian visa's. Done swiftly, legally at a good price.

[littletonyfokker]

Similar story, about 30min left in-flight enroute to Vnukovo, only to be told "airport is closed". :eek:
"Technical reasons" meaning a soon to depart presidential flight. Plenty of fuel so we entered the hold in icing conditions, in the Hawker.

Not a good idea, we nearly ran out off TKS anti-ice fluid and after 45min decided to cut our losses and head for SVO.

Oh well.

Littletone.

[L'Argonauta]

hawker what is a P.I.T.A.?

[Tmbstory]

L'Argonauta.

In the mid 1990's I introduced the original T- Shirt (I think) of "Happiness is V1 at Yuzhno Sakhalinsk" (UHSS). I had them made in Vancouver, they turned out a great success.

I still have mine as warm as toast.

Tmb

[Bravo73]

Pain in the A:mad:

[ewe.lander]

Freelanced for a lovely German mob 2 years ago, Dornier328-100 (ahhhh Dornier!) from Yerevan - Vnuk. Asked the switched on F/O and lovely Belgian Cabin Crew 'have you 2 Dudes got the Visa's for Russia??', Both replied 'Of course overweight Yorkshire man....lets fly!'

Please send Red Cross parcels to 'Why do I still support York City FC?' care of the British Embassy Moscow...

Remind me what the long German word for 'BUNG' is....:}

[transilvana]

as one said...."Welcome to Former Soviet Union", Russians are from another galaxy, being leaving 6 months over there and flying almost everyday is something to tell to my sons in the future.

[md1011]

As the last post said, try being based there, all the above are standard procedures, just give up on reason, sit back and allow yourself to be caramelised, and take the money, ..................if they pay you! then run the gauntlet trying to leave with it.:{

[MOCKBA]

hawker450
Recently one of our crew was "fined" $500 for not declaring his currency on arrival. The "fine" consisted of the crew member being asked to go by himself into an empty room and leaving the cash under a folder on the table. Has this happened to anyone else?

Did you ask your handler what they are paid for ??? Where you using FBO employees or arranged handling through one of Western flight support companies ? I bet, it was 1. So, using a DEDICATED handler will help you and passengers to avoid ALL these troubles.

L'Argonauta (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=171435)
No!!! but in the past i had to sped my overnight on board because i didn't have any available pages for visa on my passport ( customs require a completely blank page because they put on it a huge sticker!! one trip-one sticker, it's crazy man!!!)...maybe my fault but it was the first time in my life!

Hate to say it but it was your mistake. You could make your handler to arrange an emergency visa, so ground agent will stamp it to your passport himself and only after that hand passports to immigration.

[AA717driver]

Quote from Wingletnut: "After an uneventful flt, London to Vnukovo, on finals (1.5nm out!) I was told by ATC the airport was closed, completely out of the blue with no warning. When asked when it will re-open they said they weren't sure, maybe an hour, so off we diverted."

Sounds like Madrid Torrejon...:rolleyes: "Sorry, ramp full, you must divert to Barrajas." :mad:

Sorry for the mini-hijack. TC

[thedeadseawasonlysick]

I once had a tee shirt that said,"Happiness is a dry fart at TOC out of Bombay". Are you allowed to say fart on Prune?

[L'Argonauta]

you can say but don't do that...(if i share the cockpit with you please!):{

[L'Argonauta]

No!!! but in the past i had to sped my overnight on board because i didn't have any available pages for visa on my passport ( customs require a completely blank page because they put on it a huge sticker!! one trip-one sticker, it's crazy man!!!)...maybe my fault but it was the first time in my life!

Hate to say it but it was your mistake. You could make your handler to arrange an emergency visa, so ground agent will stamp it to your passport himself and only after that hand passports to immigration.


hey buddy!
for sure it was my fault, i don't know if you are a pilot or not but, if yes, what would you do if your collegue at 0.5 miles on final had not asked you for the "gear down!" yet? you'd wait to be on ground on your belly or you'd say " hey pal! why don't we put some wheels!!?"

Anyway my overnight on the '900 was quite pleasant: good food, good martin scorsese's movie and good fellowship as well ( as long as we were two in the same condition...)!!

Let's know your opinion on other events decribed here!

[Hawkr]

I personally loved the call from Petropavlovsk control while over the Bering Strait coming up on our ETP that the runway is closed and no estimate of opening again. Anyone else love their Tin Can microphone HF radios that only work 1/4 of the time? Thanks to all the airline mates relaying for us.

[Duck Rogers]

I once had a tee shirt that said,"Happiness is a dry fart at TOC out of Bombay". Are you allowed to say fart on Prune?

Yup, farting on PPRuNe is allowed. You may also write ****, ****, ****** and *************.

Oh, apparently you can't.

[jetopa]

Vnukovo is definitely crazy. And they get away with it in their incredible arrogance and because there are not many alternatives. But, hey, you can account for some of the problems (and let's face it: it has all been even worse before).

The delay in getting our start-up clearance apparently has to do with ATC waiting for a release from Immigration.
And if you don't get your departure clearance in time: ask for it then. It's part of your responsibility.
Do not over-rely on the the marshallers when they guide you into a parking lot. They have no idea what they're doing and, if something goes south, they are not responsible either.:=

Rusaero appears to be relatively professional and their agents mostly helpful and resourceful.

I'm not trying to defend the 'Vnukovo Madness', but if you look at how they treat crews in more civilized countries, you understand what I mean.

[AircraftOperations]

It could get crazy at VKO on May 21st.

[hawker750]

Any sensible operator will stay at home 21st!

[His dudeness]

"and let's face it: it has all been even worse before)."

Hmm, don´t think so. Traffic increased so much in the 2-3 years that even in a quiet phase there is 4-5 airplanes waiting to depart from VKO 3.

The delay in getting our start-up clearance apparently has to do with ATC waiting for a release from Immigration.

True for the normal wait, which in my experience is no more than 1-2 minutes after you receive your passports from the grim lady...
The hours and hours you sit in the airplane, APU running (if you have one !) one can directly relate to government flights. If Wladimir is anywhere near the airport, everything comes to a halt. And it stays so, UNTIL it is clear that his aircraft will not turn back - at least thats what I learned from a handler - might be wrong.

And if you don't get your departure clearance in time: ask for it then. It's part of your responsibility.

You can ask as often as you want, you´ll get "climb 600mtrs, when passing 200 mtrs contact 126,2" on the runway, no inch further. Have been stationed there for 2 month and get back there every now and then...but wasn´t there for 3 months now, maybe it has changed.

[Belgium Legacy]

Been there 2 years ago and recently almost every week, and all I can say that things are improving a bit.
Although last winter was the time again for 3 hour delays for de-icing etc.

[gone till november]

If you gave an untrained chimp a radio and a map it would make a better fist of it than russian/VKO ATC. shocking shocking shocking:ugh:

Happiness is watching russain airspace disappearing down your MFD

What is it ratsu or ratin i cant remember but its the sweetest FIR boundary there is.

Fuel niet, catering definetly niet, de-icing niet, clearance niet, start niet.....etc etc what an expensive **** hole:*:*:*

[ExcelXLS Driver]

Hi All,

I have fond memories of UUWW. Luckily when I arrived our PAX had only drank 1/2 the bottle of Dom Perignon and had not touched the canapés so the 2hr wait wasn't so bad.
I also remember the guys in the fuel bowser, god bless them. If anyone has yet to have the pleasure of being asked for beer before they fill the tanks then the advice I was given was to say "yes no problem" and have the beer ready as that is the one job you would like to make sure they do properly! And make sure they put the fuel cap back on and close the door before you give them their reward.
Maybe those fuel monkeys were trained with beer as rewards as it was cheaper than Vodka!:p

Has anyone had the pleasure of hotel hopping due to the lack of vacancies? I stayed at the Imperial last summer and met an American Challenger pilot who had been stuck there for weeks. It was like meeting someone who had been stranded on a desert island for a while. When he realized we spoke English, I'm sure I saw a tear out of joy. Unfortunately his Captain had gone home and he was waiting for a replacement. We then went for a well earned beer.

[x933]

Anyone else had problems going out of VKO in the champions league aftermath? Heard horror stories of aircraft being sat on the ground for 8hrs before the crew went out of duty, random airport closures, etc...

[NO DELAY EXPECTED]

I was flying to Vnukovo in something a bit bigger than a biz jet and having read your threads today, I am now not surprised at our arrival in there yesterday arriving for the Champions league match.
Having not been allowed to descend, we reached Medud ( 10 nms from the airport)at FL 9100 m ( 29900 ft) and we were not given instructions on where we were going to go next and it was impossible to get an call on the R/T which was mostly in Russian .There were Thunderstorms all over the area and we had to resort to our own headings to resolve the problems because the lack of any control .
The R/T was some of the worst that I have experienced in 30 years of flying and there was no apparent arrival planning for the 15 aircraft I could see on the TCAS and we were giving about 5 different Moscow approach freqs,all as bad as each other!
We were "kind of " vectored around within about 45 nms of the airport gradually descending for over an hour to then be given approach with a thunderstorm sitting near the Centerline .
There was no G/S indications and we were concerned that we might not pick it up at all as G/S u/s is not authorised and the other approach is an NDB only .With some relief,at 10nms the G/S started indicating correctly .
We started the ILS and at 5 nms the Tower told us in broken english "dont land at the airport ...dont land at the airport it is closed for technical reasons "
We made a missed approach and we were eventually vectored again for another ILS approach 15 mins later low cloud and heavy rain , getting visual at 300ft above the ground with the windsreen wipers doing a rotten job of clearing the view !
All I can say, having not been to Russia before this was a bit of an eye opener and for you guys that operate in there alot ,I take my hat off to you !! :ok:
Have fun , be safe out there

[flybyshark]

We managed just under 11 hours of 'Standby' responses from Ground before calling it a day, a lot of wasted time because no-one in the airport could make a decision to inform us the obvious news that we and many others were going nowhere :(

Some classic RT chatter though, brought a tear to my eye through the grimace of frustration my face was fixed in :E. Particularly loved the French guy trying to get his TV presenter to Paris to interview the President, if you believed the responses there were at least 3 french presidents flying jets yesterday :D

Still, at least the pax cleared out the bar, the food and filled the toilet twice..........

Ready to go again at 0600z today, ready to put the nightmare of yesterday behind us and get on the road...........guess what the first response was from Ground after we were blessed by the gods in getting our permit sorted? "Airport Closed" Darn Russian President forced us to sit for an anxious 30 mins thinking we were in for another day of 'Standby'!

home now, Bless zzZZZZZzzzz

[ix_touring]

Bizjet guy, you need to name and shame the :rolleyes::mad: operator! (and send a note to their (c)aa.

iX

[flying mechanik]

I really start to hate this place.
Was one of the guys in 23 may standby and wait party :{
But we managed to get out from there after 4 hours with pax on board :ugh:

[happyjack]

Bizjet Guy
Wouldn't be IJM by any chance? 17 hours duty days and it's not enough for them. 23-24 hours and no-one says a word!
JAR-OPS 1 all a level playing field eh? I think not!:ugh:

[jetopa]

Dear combattant: shame on your emloyer and f... her/him! As outrageous this is, you deserve better and should move on. Chances are that you will find another job in no time.

The very best of luck!

[FourGreenNoRed]

Bizjetguy . . .

. . . your story leaves me speechless What about your other crewmember? Were you the PIC? What was the situation exactly? Running out of duty including CPT prerogtive? :confused:

Such a behaviour is hard to believe (not that I dont!), BUT I would blame and shame and go to court.

Come on, spit it out, ths story and the name!

We promise not to tell anybody! :}

[Gulfstreamaviator]

BJG: it would not be wise to name and sham e here, but believe me there are others who would join your band.

[joehunt]

Depends which one values the most, the stinking job or their hard earned licence.

I can always get another job with my license intact, however my intact job will not get me another license.

If something were to go wrong, as things do from time to time, it is not only the authorities one needs to be scared of, it is the insurance company who insure the a/c. They have never been known to pay out if they could find an excuse not to. That company that just fired BJC would be the first to point the finger and say "we never encouraged the Captain to exceed the FDTL's". The problem is you "help them out" once and they will expect it everytime.

If any young guys out there, are being pushed by some ops clown for eg., trying to make a name for themselves at your expense, just ask them to fax their request, if it is illegal, to your point of departure. The rules are there to protect the crews, pax and 3rd parties. Observe them and you will always be able to hold your head high, even when some b*****d fires you for doing so.

[jetopa]

Check your inbox, mate. I sent you something...:ok:

[HermanTheGerman]

...on Taxiway 2, waiting in sequence as number 3 for departure Runway 24 and moving forward: suddenly, without any notice, a Tashkent Airways TU 154 came from the left taxiway, moving in front of us so that we had to apply full brakes. Asking the tower, what is going on there- the answer was: Ah, I can't see you there, please give way to the Tashkent Airways! which we already had done- to avoid a collision. Does anybody know where I can send a report to? :ugh:

[BizJetJockey]

I'm curious...has anyone been charged nearly $100 for a couple of sandwiches, coffee and a couple of cokes at that silly little bar in the VIP terminal/Vnukovo 3?

A seriously long day with barely a coffee and a biscuit and then they spring that upon you! Where do they get the nerve from?:mad::{

[CaptainProp]

BizjetGuy - Still around? Whatever happened concerning your employer, or ex employer anyway?

CP

[inner]

I've been just once in Vnukovo. But i remember the gave us radar vectors. The last vector was an interception angle of 80° on the localiser. Never had that before.:eek:

[BizJetJockey]

Try 180 degrees! I'm just kidding! :} By the way...i'm not BizJetGuy...although i'd be interested to know if he's still around.

[dan1165]

Or sometimes they give u a rwy change at the very very last moment :suspect:..

[Gulfstreamaviator]

IJM have had their problems, and I am sure will continue to do so.

VNO ditto, and they will get worse.

glf

[Chippie Chappie]

Inner, that's normal at VKO, they give you a 90 deg. vector and EXPECT you to intercept it yourself, i.e. when close, you turn for a smaller intercept angle. If you don't, you'll almost certainly go through the LOC.

Be careful out there :)

[jetjock1]

Hi all

Remember you will not get cleared to land until you have confirmed "Gear Down and Locked" - not "Three Greens" or anything else, must be "Gear Down and Locked" :ok:

Have made over one hundred and fifty approaches there, and have no intention of adding any more if I can avoid it !

JJ1

[hawker750]

There is a very nasty "gotcha" in the early 125-800's and all the 700's. The final decent under radar is from 600m to 500m that is from 2600 ft QNH to 2300. All at a time when you are "dumped" with a 90 turn onto finals. The Alt capture phase of the Autopilot is about 300 feet depending on ROD and early 800's (and 700's) have a horrible design fault that if you touch the VS wheel in the capture phase it will disarm your ALT select!
The problem is you are in the capture phase as soon as you touch the VS wheel to go down....bingo your alt select is disarmed.
Because the designers never imagined that any where would expect a 300 foot descent increment (1600 feet above the ground) probably thought it was OK.
After about serial number 50 they changed the design.
Watch it like a hawk if you go there in a 700 or an early 800. NEVER hurry the approach and it may be better to fly a manual approach
Also I think the best call on finals is "Ready to Land". Same in all the "stans" as well

[Dumbledor]

To reply to the post about sleeping on the a/c. I have peeled off the Russian visas in the past and stuck them on top of each other, to free up pages in the passport. Better than freezing on board.

[L'Argonauta]

...and then after one year I came back in Vnukovo! fair weather, passengers slightly late but not more than 30 minutes, flight plan arranged and Apu running waiting only for start up clearance!! great! LET'S TRY AGAIN MAYBE IN ONE YEAR THINGS HAD CHANGED!

Vnukovo Ground xxxxx31 Request start!

xxxxx31 ( a young lady voice ) Vnukovo Ground STAND BY!

oh no! different day, same sh*t!

this time i spent 1,45 minutes on board waiting for that clearence while my boss bacame furious and any time i tried to get an exlpanation or even an estimate i received the same answer "STAND BY"!!

now i'm pretty sure! happines is......V1 out of Vnukovo!!!!!!!!

[dss3000]

Happyness for me is a dry fart at V2 out of Mumbai !!

Pretty standard for Vnukovo, if your boss doesn't understand the delays out of there he must be fairly new to business aviation in Russia. hopefully he'll get used to it before he fires you LOL

Have fun,

[jr of dallas]

I agree Mumbai is tough...Vnukovo on the other hand if your boss doesn't know any executive from Russaero/vipport and entertain "good relation" with them you'll wait for sure..It's like Africa with the snow !

[Der_Fischmeister]

long time no vnukovo for me ...anyone can tell me if the business aviation over there is picking up ?

[Tinytim]

Agree with all of the above...........anyone else noticed the Russian F£ckwit fuellers happily smoking as they refuel?

I personally have concluded that the chance of getting an ATC controller who has not been on the vodka at less than 50%.........

I HATE the place.

[Tmbstory]

Tiny Tim:

If that is the case, then go somewhere else. There is always good and bad in every area that you work. I operated for six years in Far Eastern Russia with very little problem.

Happy flying!

Tmb

[Aviaservice]

Hi! I'm sorry for certain Russian personnel BUT i dont think that ATC controllers could be loaded! Your statement looks like not quite is professional!

P.S. Sorry for poor English.
With respect from Russia, Saint-Petersburg

[Flintstone]

Aviaservice.

Have I missed something? Who said the controllers were "loaded" (by which I assume you mean drunk)? The refuelers on the other hand, oh yes. Smoking while filling up an aircraft seems to be compulsory and as for the other comments about Vnukovo I wholeheartedly agree. The place is a joke and if I never have to go there again it will be too soon.

[Aviaservice]

Tinytim wrote:
......
I personally have concluded that the chance of getting an ATC controller who has not been on the vodka at less than 50%.........

Don't drunk! If i understood above right. :rolleyes:

:= I exclude probability that ATC controllers is drinking while standing sentinel!

[BizJetJockey]

Forgive me but doesn't the title of this thread say something? There are pages and pages proving the madness that is Vnukovo!

No, people shouldn't generalise but Vnukovo is a joke! It's not just the obvious things but the whole ethos in the Moscow area. For starters, everything is ridiculously expensive...$100 for some cheap old sandwiches and a couple of cokes inside the Very 'Impotent' Person's terminal...Why do people think they can charge such ridiculous prices? The rest of Moscow is not much better.

As for the STANDBY craziness without any Notams and the general attitude of the people at Vnukovo...it takes the P*ss!

[Aviaservice]

In Russia about Moscow it is said - 'Moscow it is the country in the country' (if is it right on english)
We already do not wonder about prices in the Moscow. Moscow it is the metropolis of country which have one of the big reservoir of the oil! The mad oil-dollars (shal'nye neftedollary) allow consider that people in the russia is rich! BUT it is only for some people which Moscow inhabit!

[Grum]

I've never seen fuellers smoking and not sure the controllers are drunk but i do agree the attitude sucks.

We recently stopped using the Vipport transport because it was too expensive only to find that our new provider was being refused access to the terminal to pick us up! :hmm:

Luckily for me the cost of parking at Vnukovo is so expensive that it is cheaper for us to reposition the aircraft to another country and wait there for the next flight, then position back to moscow! So now i get to standby in an attractive city with better weather, cheaper restuarants and prettier girls. :8

[Aviaservice]

Guys! Why are you don't flying to the Ostafievo (GAZPROM avia)? It is very near to belt highway "MKAD". And may be not so expensive!

[Flintstone]

Aviaservice.

Sorry. I misread his post as referring to the refuellers and in my defence cite eight time zone jet lag. The overall comments stand though, Vnukovo and indeed all bizjet aviation in Moscow is a running joke.

[Kelly Hopper]

Try operating for a Russian owner, through a Russian company, with Russian F/O's, flying throughout Russia, out of Vnukovo!!!!:eek:
Joke yes, but not so funny!

[Paradise Lost]

I think some of you guys are leading too sheltered lives.......... am currently in Vnuk3, and at least I can get fuel, water and a tow I don't actually want. We could really rev this thread up by using V3 as the yardstick, and tossing in even worse places for handling.
It's my turn and I throw in DOHA.....run by morons, more expensive than V3 and so slow that the a/c needs to go on calendar-based maintenance by the time you get airborne again.
Someone else can have a turn now...........................................

[Kelly Hopper]

There are loads of places worse than Vnukovo. Luanda and Lagos spring to mind but these places have not just invested billions for GA operators and then it all falls flat cos of ATC, Fuel, etc.
V3 now has the infrastructure to be OK. It's 90% there but the remaining 10% is all so important.
ATC is the biggest problem with simply no idea how to space incoming a/c. How about heading control or speed control before TOD rather than 100 miles of vectors from the downwind leg????

[Aviaservice]

Hello! The fact is that General Aviation in Russia is absence!!! The Air law-book is prohibit official work, i mean that the firms can't earning. We can meet one's expenses only! Therefore GA in russia is not proper progress!

[hawker750]

Kelly Hopper
I have to dissagree with you, V3 is 100 times worse than Luanda and Lagos.
The last time I was in Lagos I was in the Intercon within 45 minutes of landing, the departure was sweet as well. Total bill about $1,800 No visa needed and great catering from the Intercon at a reasonable price

Last time in Luanda really nice handling agent, in and out in 80 minutes. Total bill $500 no visa needed


Last time in Moscow. Depressing, Touch down to hotel 4 hours. (driver could not speak English and took us to the wrong hotel! ) I night stop. Total bill $5,500 including "guarding". This did not include the $500 "fine" (no receipt) for non declaration of currency inbound. Moscow will never join the rest of the world
as a decent place when it is still run by (ex) KGB. And all the crew had visas at vaste expense and agro.Catering a joke

By the way do Russian Crew need Visas for a quick trip to the UK?

On another point; have you noticed that crew visa requirements are inversely proportional to the desire to go to a particular place. e.g. the nastier it is, the more difficult they make it to get in!

Back to V3. Lets have a competition to see who has been charged the most for 1 night in Moscow EXCLUDING hotels. I start with $5,500 (€4,150) (HS-125)

[CargoOne]

$100 for some cheap old sandwiches and a couple of cokes inside the Very 'Impotent' Person's terminal...Why do people think they can charge such ridiculous prices?

Because there are people who ready to pay that much... :ugh:

[dynamite dean]

Ok do I see a thread starting worst places to go...

Mine is Mbandaka,Kinshasa and Goma in the DRC , Any others?:E

[Kelly Hopper]

Hawker 750.
I won't even begin to bore you with the problems I have had in Luanda and Lagos including the cost of nightstopping so lets just say I was luckier than you in Vnukovo and you were luckier than me in Africa?
Ever been to Vnukovo 2?????

[hawker750]

Kelly
Yes went to V2 in the old days (15 years ago) when V3 did not exist. Service aweful but predictably so and you did not have to pay through the nose for the bad service.
Can one still use V2?

Also, any one here used Ostafyevo UUMO instead of Vnukova? It looks OK, H24 and Customs and pretty close to Moscow city centre. If it works out OK let's boycott Vnukova.

[Kelly Hopper]

Ha. Finally I have met somemone else who remembers V2. No one believes me and I was getting to the point where I thought they were right!!!
I think the only way you can use it now is to be the President.
But at least I can go through the day now knowing i wasn't imagining it all those years ago. Thanks!

[hawker750]

I remember going to V2 in our Lear 35 about 1988. No (mis )handling agent to bu...er
you about. You went into the terminal and paid the fees to a very robust lady behind some equally robust iron bars. I think the total bill was about $101 (Give them 2 x $100 and they had no change even though you could see a stack of 20's)
The other thing I remember is that the staff (customs, police,airport etc) were mostly "ladies" with dyed blond buffont hair and bright red lipstick smeared on from nose to chin. Aaaah those were the days, when you could get get insulted for a mere hundred bucks!

[pc6flyer]

Vnukovo and russia in general remind me of the movie Ground Hog Day. The same day repeats over and over again.

Been based there for 3 years now, nothing has changed except now fewer aircraft operating out of Vnukovo, sat there for 5 hours on a Friday evening not too long ago, only 3 arrivals and departures. oh yea and no stand by when asking for start clearance.

[Andi]

Based there since 1.5 years and I have to agree.Getting very quite there.Too quite.
Nearly no more "stand by" for hrs like last summer.Still the same"we do not have immigration permission received yet" but hey,what else can we expect.
Lots of A/C moving
to Riga to safe the outrageouse parking fees.But instead of realizing
what is going on and reducing fees to keep operators there what do they do?? They INCREASE fees even more.Nothing learned in last 20 years about
free market and buiz environment.:ugh:

Greets from Riga , Andi

[BizJetJockey]

Ahhh the Russian way of thinking...less business, lets put the prices up to make up for the lost revenue! Marvelous...keep it up!

[pc6flyer]

Riga is a nice place, very efficient handling and decent catering too. Crew of 3 in the Raddison (100 euro a day), per diem (100 euro a day) and parking (265 euro a day)was 865 euro a day. Even being a permanent tenant at Vnukovo it was still far less expensive to stay in Riga. Only thing that really sux in Riga is the exchange rate and bar tabs.

[galaxy flyer]

As a friend of mine noted, national airline (Aeroflot) has their planes registered in the Caymans or Ireland.

GF

[Aviaservice]

Yes I agree with you! For a reason is variability of the laws! Today you are Boss, tomorrow you are nothing!
I hope you understand me right.

[Andi]

Been In Vnukovo lately late late night.We had planned a short fuel stop (500 liters only),toilett service,Wx,Flight plan and unloading (hehe) our FA and passengers before heading of again to our new "parking position" at different airport.We planed about 60 min for that stop.Deep inside we expected at least 90 minutes minimum.
After 30 min we were looking at each other astoned and could not believe what just had happend to us. For the first time in 1.5 years we were fully ready to go again.(Not cuz we are snail flight but for obviouse reasons at V3)

"Ahh,hang on" we thought,catch 22 with immigration service as usuall.
Just nipping on my coffee and requesting clearance and start up a nice calm
male voice replyed in 3 seconds: VP... ,cleared to ur destination via flight plan route,expect....departure,after passing 200m..... climb.... contact 126.0,
sqwak XXYY, start up approved!!:eek:

I nearly spitt my coffee all ova da place and we both thought we were in heaven or different space.What the f.... just happend??:confused:

We had no idea and even did not bother to find out. "Lets get the hell ouda here before smth else happens" we thought.
10 min later we took off!!

The end of the story is: Once upon a time........

Now I know that those stories that my mum told me when I was very young
are REAL!!!

Keep it up Vnukovo,you are slowly improving and getting better.:D

I rate you that late night 5 out of 10!!!!!!!!!!!
(only 5 cuz I still can not believe what happend

Good night to all of you,hope I did not bore you toooo much.
Andi

[Flintstone]

Surely they've not finally woken up to the fact that people will go elsewhere?

I don't believe it.

[barry lloyd]

My contacts in Moscow tell me that Mayor Luzhkov has recently announced big plans to turn Vnukovo into a full VIP airport, with major investment in terminals, infrastructure, etc. I don't know whether to be pleased or petrified!

[Andi]

they have surely NOT woken up totally (not even half) .They take ages to realize what is going on.
We left V3 few weeks ago and pay just a fraction now on parking fees at different airport.

[hawker750]

Andi
Which airport are you talking about? Am going to Moscow in May for 4 days and trying to convince passengers NOT to go to V3. Your help would be appreciated.

[Andi]

Hey Hawker 750,

I dont think I can really help because we go to Riga (EVRA) and I guess your
pax want to land in Moscow.However,if you calculate 4 days fees in V3 (some 1200 Euros per day as far as I know) and calculate 1hr flight to and 1hr back to V3 you might be better of doing that after unloading pax and ferry.
Fuel prices in Riga are about twice as cheap as in V3 according to our OPS.
Handling there is very good and switched on.

According to handling in V3 all other airports around Moscow have some sort of agreement about prices.Dont know if that is true or not.

Greets from Nice

[hawker750]

Andi
Thanks for that, am trying to avoid ferry flight but it may be the answer and Riga a lot nicer that Moscow. Am trying to find out about UUMO Ostafyevo, this lists as H24 with Customs. Have google earthed it and it looks OK but I cannot find anyone who has actualy used it. Is there any one who can give some info on prices atc?

[artip]

4 days in the airport hotel in UUMO?
Have fun...:E

I would go to Vnukovo or ferry to Riga.

Cheers,
A

[Aviaservice]

2 Hawker750
I think you could get any information by phone listed on this site!

Ostafyevo (http://eng.gazpromavia.ru/index.php?id=25&L=1)
Also

Rinat Khakimov
[email protected]
+7 903 729 8705

[FLYDUS]

I am reading all your comments with big question marks in my eyes. I am flying in and out of uuww for 5 years now, and besides the terrible high prices, i have to say that the handling over there is really one of the best handlings i ever experienced.

Okay, the problem with the government flights is still there. Also, you have to know that it doesnt make sense to call for startup when your door is not closed and the securityguy wasnt there to get his signatures.

But all in all, i cannot complain about uuww.

I think they improved a lot in the past 5 years and the only really annoying thing is the prices over there.

But of course i can only talk about my experiences with Vipport and my company.

Regards

FLYDUS:)

[epsum]

Today at VKO - from request to startup 2h10minutes, passengers onboard for 2h10min flight. Sweeet. It always surprises me, that 3times of 5, is everything ok. You got your clearances, etc.. And the famous 2 times of 5.. we do not have any information about your flight, but your squawk is....., we dont have your flight plan at the system, contact your representative.. or wait couple minutes and call me again.. then i got you in the system..
Well. At least we got paid for it. And as one of our owners says, that he prefers to wait couple of hours in aircraft, drink G&T and chat with girls, than sit in a car and drive from center to Sheremetjevo 2 hours if he is lucky.

About UUMO. Been there, relatively short field, only one ILS, due VKO and UUDD zones got really strange vectors usually, when on vectors from VKO radar got clearance at VKO QFE, when Ostafjevo tower, their own QFE.
During landing you will not see the other end of runway, PAPI usually out of order runway quality is bad.
Have heard, that they might clear you to ILS approach, but forgot to switch ILS on. Handling are very friendly and helpful, so are customs.
And your pax will love to wait in their car behind the railway crossing around 1h, plus usual traffic madness - there is no proper highway from and to UUMO. So, its a bit easier for pilot, but pax usually hate that place.

[the_bookkeeper]

I have been there on the 27th. 5:30 hours delay!!! A netjets aircraft had a delay of 8:20!!!

[lear60fellow]

Welcome to former Soviet Union!!!! having been in VKO for a while but never had to wait more than 2 hours, once a friend waited 6 hours because TU154 slided of rwy, that´s it. Looks like things are getting worst.

[Belgium Legacy]

On the 26th 10 hours delay to get de-iced, welkom back Vnukovo :ugh:

Seems that if you are just a normal operator you are the last in line, the ones with connections have the pole position. Hope Medvedev gets on with his program against corruption.

[epsum]

More to continue - today one of our company a/c waited startup 3h50, the other one 5:30.. nice to be AOG in the middle of Europe. Rumours, that they are really short of anti/de ice fluid, so the surprises might continue. Anyhow.
Will fly from VKO at 31st.. so prayers and voodoo-stuff is going to be handy, hoping to be home at evening of 31st :). I know that Domodedovo is mess but anybody have flown in last of couple days to/from Sheremetyevo? In the bright side, Medvedev in TV promised, that people who is responsible for that DME/VKO mess are going to put in jail:)

[thomi1968]

"Hope Medvedev gets on with his program against corruption."


:O:}:)

nothing more to say..........

this guys are the reason for the mess in vko....

[x933]

In the bright side, Medvedev in TV promised, that people who is responsible for that DME/VKO mess are going to put in jail

Such threats in the western world normally tend to work wonders; I wonder how much of an effect the prospect of an undetermined period of time in Lubyanka will have :E

[His dudeness]

UUMO / Ustafjevo have apparently put in a mandatory 6 hrs in the hangar scheme in order to safe de icing fluid. I just wonder what fortune they will ask for that. Probably the weight of the airplane matched in Gold rubels or the like...