Merged: Qantas Shorthaul Cabin Crew EBA

[call button]

Qantas shorthaul FA's are currently being asked to complete surveys from the FAAA with regard to our forthcoming EBA negotiations.

I am interested as to what my colleagues are saying/thinking about our next EBA. I am particularly interested in everyones thoughts on the questions regarding changes to seniority. Does anyone know what the agenda is there?

[Simon Templar]

Wait til Veronica Pattystacker and their siblings get hold of this thread.
There will be carnage.
Their sole purpose is to disrupt any logical and intelligent discussion regarding CC of any persuasion.
Please dont respond to these swine or this thread too will go the way of the DoDo

[Pegasus747]

I think one of the agenda items is reserve line rotation for all ranks. I think that there will also be the challeges of competing with Team JetStar pay rates on domestic routes.

I think that FWA is not a happening thing and the Company will want changes to that too. The whole MAM thing has run its course and i think that they will want to deal with that "in House" rather than through the curent outsourced processes, and perhaps offer full time employment to the MAM crew through a "QCCA" type of vehicle.

[lowerlobe]

Is the rumour true that Darth has told S/H that they have to accept team J* pay and hours or he will start up a S/H base in Neu Zeeland and put them up in F1 pubs when working in OZ....

[Long Bay Mauler]

Why not just ask for a 5% payrise,inline with inflation like the LAMEs?

If we all sing together,maybe we will all get a fair deal.

[veronica]

"Wait til Veronica Pattystacker and their siblings get hold of this thread."


Not shorthaul. Can't, and won't be contributing to this thread! :)

[call button]

Lowerlobe,

QCCA FA's only need to be endorsed on one more aircraft (737) and they are just like team Jet*

[lowerlobe]

Call Button.....I was under the impression that J* or maybe it was J* International worked longer hours than QCCA.

I imagine that it is a little like comparing Apples and Oranges as their awards might be set up differently.

[prunezeuss]

Judging by the small number of responses over a reasonable time frame,nobody seems to care about the domestic EBA.
There is not much left for managment to glean.Squirrel caging may be something that is being considerd by junior crew but certainly not by the senior sisters

[RedTBar]

It looks like S/H crew here like Veronica & friends don't want to talk about it but it'll come out sooner or later.
They might come up with something original like team S/H.I don't know how their seniority system works but you can bet that the bee hive girls want it and the company doesn't.
Where that leaves them is anyones guess but if they give any more away it will most probably be a D scale.
This is where the new crew pay for their jobs and pass a collection plate around during the flights to support themselves.
How much lower can the company get crew pay and conditions?

[GalleyHag]

Senority is always going to be an issue, QCCA short haul would not be out of the questions I am sure or a vehicle of some similar design. As for the Team Jetstar comparison well thats like saying the company would have put all long haul crew on Jetconnect pay and conditions that would never happen nor would short haul being put on Team Jetstar terms and conditions.

The point of interest for me was the survey questions in regard to regional flying. Now that makes me think some serious terms and conditions will be eroded to protect or even increase the volume of regional flying.

[call button]

I agree GalleyHag, I think the union is trying to see how far the membership will go to protect/increase regional flying.

[Crusty Demon]

Wow, another thread of handbag swinging. No wonder you lot are in trouble, all you do is seem to want to bash each other on here. Mostly it appears to outsiders the majority of this is QF longhaul crew bashing short haul.

Given the posts so far, the majority of which seem to be Longhaul crew, how long before this degenerates into another bitchfest?

Ever wondered why you lot get banned and moved so often???

Grow up and get a life.

[RedTBar]

Crusty Demon,
I don't know where you found any disagreement on this thread or are you trying to start one?
You might have a short term memory problem but in the D & G section the threads are about aviation in Australia.That means everyone involved and not just pilots.

However,the basis of this thread is about the company trying to lower once again pay and conditions of crew this time in relation to the S/H EBA negotiations.

Posted by Crusty Demon in relation to the differences of opinion between mainline pilots and J* pilots
Until everybody in this country unites, no matter how painful the process is, the competition among ourselves will lead to much more pain through the course of most of our careers.
It look like as though you agree with us :)

[call button]

I know this is getting off the topic a bit, but the company is inviting shorthaul crew (and probably longhaul too) to apply for a London basing. These positions will commence Jan 09 and be for a minimum of 2 years. I know we all thought that the London base may close, but obviously this is not the case!!

[RedTBar]

I know we all thought that the London base may close, but obviously this is not the case!!
This might be because of 2 reasons

First,they might be having trouble keeping people in QFUK or
There will be too many S/H crew and it saves GD a VR payout for everyone from S/H who goes over.

[packrat]

There isnt enough regional flying left for the domestics to quibble about.What there is available they dont want.Give it all back.

[Shazz-zaam]

They have just opened up transfers from SH to LH.

Does anyone have any idea about the number of transfers that they are looking at ?

I was always under the impression that transfers are actioned on a one for one basis.

[indamiddle]

pommy pound has lost 15% against oz$, why would the base close down?
anyone ever ask 'why don't we have one union?'
at least a unified strategy would stop the divide and conquer af management.
will this happen while DW runs short haul?
will this happen while MM runs long haul?
maybe a new sec. is needed longhaul...is that 747 i hear coming??

[packrat]

The unification of associations was tried 10 years ago.It didnt work largely due to the recalcitrance of the domestics.
Comparing DW to MM is like comparing Mugabe to Mother Teresa.
MM has no other agenda other than to look after the interests of his flock.
DWs agenda is to look after DW.
LH does not need a new secretary.This buffoon PS stands a snowballs chance on Saturn
The sound of a 787 approaching is music to LH ears.
Transfers are indeed one for one.Who in their right mind transfer to domestic flying while the EBA is being negotiated?You would have a choice of redundancy or LHR....which is really no chance/choice at all

[lowerlobe]

The most logical and pragmatic solution to stop the company eroding crew's working conditions and pay packet would be to form one group.....

However,any amalgamation of S/H and L/H would be problematic at best and an impossibility at the other extreme.Both divisions would not accept the current leadership of the other side and I honestly think that the concept is too flawed to even contemplate.

The company has been very clever to play both sides against each other to sew distrust and suspicion to the point where an amalgamation would be so unlikely as to not be a problem for them.

The last thing the company would want would be a united work force whether that is with pilots,cabin crew or anyone.

[Butterfield8]

Trust is the word.
Unfortunately history dictates that there will never be any...trust.
Any amalgamation is fruitless and frought with too many CC cultural differences.
Stay separate but try not to cut across each others territory.
Display some dignity and principles...diifficult but worth a try

[whatever6719]

Hi all.
Well its now time for us QF Short Haulers to negotiate our EBA.
With the backdrop of QCCA and the Jetstar juggernaut, what is the general feeling out there amongst us Short Haulers??
Hoping for a forum that enables us to discuss our views without descending into the usual vitriol.

[Butterfield8]

If you have a look there is already a thread that deals with the domestic EBA

[blackguard]

Dont feed the troll.
PattyStacker has already been responsible for closing one thread.
Dont let this be another

[Sandgroper]

Just to get back on topic. One item that I would like to see addressed in the forthcoming negotiations is freedom of choice of our superannuation. Currently in our EBA, our Super MUST be paid into the QF Super fund (yes we have freedom of choice within the QF Super Fund, but we cannot invest elsewhere). I would like to see that this is changed to bring us in line with engineers, pilots and I believe possibly administration staff who can choose to invest their super wherever they like. The inefficiency of the QF Super team is unbelieveable, ie statements regularly late, unable to give you up to date current balances etc when you phone and quite frankly there returns are poor and fees higher than other super funds around. Anyone else have any thoughts on this one???

[White Pointer]

Offer to put all new recruits on QCCA scales -10%. That should make you cheap enough to have QF willing to purchase lots more aircraft and have you all flying them. They may even decide to throw more regional flying your way.

Of course, you won't lose any of your conditions. Only the newbies will suffer. Bugger them, I am alright.

[lowerlobe]

Dont feed the troll.
PattyStacker has already been responsible for closing one thread.
Dont let this be another
It now looks as though you could add White Pointer to that list as well...

Sandgroper......Good idea and if I've heard right the company has farmed out the Super anyway.

[jetjockey7]

Under EBA 8 a number of changes were made to Qantas Superannuation:
1.Superannuation choice is now available
2.Employee compulsory contributions can now be salary sacrificed
3.The QF Super website now provides a daily update of superannuation status.
As far as I know there are no fees.
The Super scheme hasnt been "farmed out"
The returns have been above average and there are options..balanced ,growth or aggressive.

[lowerlobe]

The Super scheme hasnt been "farmed out"
As far as I know the company does not handle this in house any longer as it is done by an external firm....

[White Pointer]

What are you saying then Lowerlobe? There should be no 'B' scale for shorthaul like longhaul?

[blackguard]

There is already a B scale in the domestics.
They invented it.
MAM Casuals...ring a bell?

[lowerlobe]

blackguard....

Don't take the bait that White Pointer is trying on us because he/she knows full well that the company received not only a 'B' scale but a 'C' scale as well with S/H well before QCCA was even mentioned or thought of.

That is not the point though as this thread is about the S/H EBA and what is wanted and will be negotiated.....

[seatedandsecured]

Guys if we are talking about the same DW in short haul i believe he took VR last time it was offered so hasnt been around for awhile

[blackguard]

Well things just got a whle lot better for the domestics.All you need to do now is get rid of your IR Officer JP.
He was absolutely useless when he worked for the LH FAAA

[White Pointer]

Lowerlobe and friends, it could be said that Longhaul are just as guilty of lower scales with the BKK, AKL and LHR base when comparing shorthaul and MAM.

Any bets on whether Shorthaul will introduce a 'B' scale similar to what has been forced on QCCA crew? Ask any MAM who has transferred as to how low the QCCA scale is compared to what they got paid with MAM.

[blackguard]

No one twisted their arms to move.
They had a choice.
The off shore bases were beyond LH FAAA control.
Contrary to what you may like to think the FAAA does not have jurisdiction outside Australia
Whatever Qantas management wants to do outside Australia is their corporate prerogative.
Get with the programme

[lowerlobe]

White Pointer left L/H years ago when he/she did not like the seniority system and now that there is movement is probably wishing he/she had not left....
White pointer also voted to give up the slip in JFK but that seems to be conveniently forgotten...so it's OK to vote to give up something if you think it will save your job but not OK later on.....
WP did the slips in JFK come back?.....NO
WP did the vote stop the company from using AKL based crew on the JFK's?....NO

White Pointer posted..
it could be said that Longhaul are just as guilty of lower scales with the BKK, AKL and LHR base when comparing shorthaul and MAM.
WP...Did ex L/H union officials start up the overseas bases?.....NO

Did L/H vote to accept the overseas bases so that the company could implement them?....NO

WP.... in what way did L/H start the overseas bases in the same way that S/H started MAM?

Can you name the ex L/H officials who started up the bases?
Any bets on whether Shorthaul will introduce a 'B' scale similar to what has been forced on QCCA crew?
WP...as usual you are a few years behind the times....not only did S/H accept a 'B' scale but also a 'C' scale

Besides if the conditions as a MAM are so much better than at QCCA why are they getting ex MAM's to apply?
From what I've heard the money is better as a MAM but you have to work a ship load of hours and have no days off to get it...


There is no point to your argument only your plan to get the thread closed....go back to your charter airline job......

Or is this because you have applied for a job as a QCCA F/A??????????

[call button]

Lowerlobe,

You are twisting the facts regarding MAM casuals contract B and C. Firstly, ALL MAM employees are on the same rate of pay, which is a higher hourly rate than the highest increment of permanent shorthaul FA's pay.

I can guarantee you that although MAM may not be paid holiday and sick pay, they are earning a very good wage, in many cases much more than permanent shorthaul crew. AND DEFINITELY A SH*TLOAD MORE THAN QCCA!

There are 3 different conracts for MAM - Contract A, B and C. These only differ in rostering arrangements, their hourly rate of pay is exactly the same.

Permanent shorthaul FA's do not get to vote on ANY MAM conditions in the EBA. MAM FA's have their own EBA, and as such can vote in any contracts or changes to working conditions as they wish.

The forthcoming shorthaul EBA, will have absolutely nothing to do with MAM employees. They are employed by Maurice Alexander Management, as as such, they negotiate their own working conditions with their employer. We shorthaul crew, cannot vote any changes to their working conditions.

[PattyStacker]

Thread Title: Qantas Short Haul EBA.

Discussion topics - JFK Slips, Long Haul Union Officials, QCCA Applicants.

Short haul Eba Topics.

And I don't close threads down. I merely point out that LONG HAUL politics should not be CONSTANTLY dragged through the hedges in a SHort Haul Forum. Or a QCCA forum. Or a Jetstar Forum.

Feel free to Private Message me with Threats and accusations (as 8 ppruners have already done. Most have a stock standard response involving the consumption of an item) as it is exceptionally funny to read.

SHORT HAUL EBA... I don't think short haul operate JFK Shuttles.

[blackguard]

Your point is what?...absolutely no point.
You fail to realize that what the domestics vote in and on unfortunately has an impact on longhaul.The transfer of so called regional flying is a case in point.
MAM casuals..300 of them...... have elected to transfer to QCCA...why?
Deserting a sinking ship probably.
Unlike MAM QCCA employees are part of EBA8.In two years time there will be a combined LH population of near 5000.
That would give them some reasonable bargaining power.
Depending on what happens with the current domestic EBA will determine whether or not the domestics remain the weakest link and provide the company with a portion of the workforce who will undermine the resolve of others.
From that perspective lets hope the domestic EBA is a good one.

[lowerlobe]

This thread was going along nicely until recently and I will not be part of those who's only wish is to close this thread down...

Call Button check your PM's....

[prunezeuss]

Perhaps you should educate yourself to a little history before you go off half cocked and attack everyone.
The days of flying as a longterm career are over.Its a young single persons job.You stay for 5 years and then go and do something else.The QCCA rostering will guarantee no one stays too long...you will be burnt out.
LH and the domestics are inextricably linked.What one votes on affects the other.Thats why threads always go down a particular path.
There is lot of resentment toward the domestics.It will take a long time to dissipate.They made a mistake.They will have to live with it.
Lets hope they dont bugger this one up.
FootNote:75% of LH CC are female.The patriarchy as you call it is 25%.We do not need homophobes like PattyStacker flying.

[RedTBar]

prunezeuss,
I have tried to explain the history to Patty and it doesn't work so theres no point in going down that road mate.Lobee has the right idea so just ignore anyone who wants to continue with any rubbish.

Galley Hag or Call Button or any other s/h crew when is your eba deadline?

[White Pointer]

Just quickly before I leave to enjoy the long weekend, what is your interest Lowerlobe? Can't handle the life without flying, or do you miss the drama and galley gossip, or possibly the pensioner meetings downstairs at the cheap & nasty discount food and drink joints at the Bonaventure? Perhaps you have not been to Costco for your 12kg's of washing powder, are unable to wash now and cannot venture out. Whatever, good to see you are enjoying your time since leaving with nothing to do but get angry and fired up on here.

Part time for a corporate jet charter sure beats working with some of the sad cases in QF Longhaul. Mostly they were fantastic, but some like yourself Lobe ruin it for everyone. Your life is spent abusing those who do not agree with your point of view. Yet you seem one of the more hypocritical among those here. Does it worry me, not at all. Life is much more satisfying now.

Some of the maturity and professionalism displayed by QF crew here entertains us here where I now work. It shows why this business is going so well at the moment.

[whatever6719]

Just wanted to see what any junior SH crew out there in the various bases thought of the May rosters. Melbourne crew from about 7 years seniority have been dumped with a month of SYD returns and there are ALOT of unhappy campers. Can anyone divulge (as a comparison) what kind of rosters they have been getting, especially in SYD.
Going from 10-13 overnights to none in one hit is nasty, especially if the schedules arent evenly balanced amongst the bases.
No movement in seniority for the last six years makes a mockery of the current seniority system as it stands.
Something has got to give. Hopefully the EBA can address some of these issues.

[call button]

RedTBar,

I'm not actually sure when our EBA deadline is. I understand the FAAA is currently in negotiations with the company. Our EBA online surveys have to be completed by today.

The FAAA has confirmed that the company has indicated their wish to discuss longhaul transfer conditions as part of the next round of enterprise negotiations.
So look out all the DOMESTICS who started with TAA in the 60's and 70's are coming over in droves!!!:eek:

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-

"So look out all the DOMESTICS who started with TAA in the 60's and 70's are coming over in droves!!!"

--------------

Wasn't that a B grade 70's shlock movie?

"Attack of the Killer Beehives" ????

[jungle juice]

The FAAA has confirmed that the company has indicated their wish to discuss longhaul transfer conditions as part of the next round of enterprise negotiations.
It looks like the company considers that there are too many s/h crew then?

If that's the case then this might be a way for GD to reduce the number of redundancy payments.Fun times for all ahead:eek:

Speedbirdhouse and call button,How do those girls afford all the hairspray let alone carry it:E

White Pointer,this thread is going ahead and can do without your attempts to drag lowerlobe or anyone else into a mess of escalating posts.If you really want this thread to be able to get info on s/h EBA talks then post constructive comments only.

If you want to trade insults with someone then do it with a pm instead of posting.

I for one do not want to read about your squabbles

[seatedandsecured]

most of the MAM casuals that went across to QCCA have gone because it is a full time job and they get staff travel....................be it for only 5 years untill they burn out.

One ex MAM has been interviewd for a CSM position that I know of

[Pegasus747]

The future for SH is indeed a rosy one. QF has about 3Billion in the bank and they are gearing up in a major way to hold the line on domestic market share. QF have ordered a significant number of 737-800 many which will be deployed regionally which will satisfy those that want some international flying.

The SH FAAA have lowered the bar a little with the Virgin EBA and now the Team Jetstar but what choice did they have....You do the deal and then you seek to improve them over time or you bury your head in the sand and they do a non union deal.

Its the way of the world just deal with it as it's the samee everywhere.

The SH EBA will also have to deal with growing concerns about inequity around seniority issues as well as the desire of MAM crew to have permanent jobs and better security.

Money isnt everything

[Le 3rd Homme]

There is enough resentment towrds the domestics as it is.
What this about droves of them transferring to LH?
Bloody well hope its not true
Peg 747 what say you?

[mrpaxing]

on the cc website the divisional tranfer is on. on the CIS screen they talk about 30 transferees by august. by then the SH EBA should be wrapped up. what may be of concern is the actual numbers the company wants to transfer. there are several hundred on the transfer list. i for one do not want to see another senior domestic jumping ahead taking my trips. have waited long enough, and with the A380 coming there will be less slots available in a couple of years to our favourite destination. :yuk:

[Pegasus747]

well i think that we should transfer all SH crew to Long Haul. That way there would be one pool of crew on one EBA doing all the work. No needs for two divisions of the FAAA and one united workforce... albeit with acrimony about seniority ... i tire of the constant diatribe about seniority though...one good challenge in the EEO or ADB and its dead for everyone.

My advice...wake up and smell the roses if seniority is your god then let the cards fall where they will. The debate was over 15 years ago when the deal was done that we had one seniority list for LH and SH.

Get over it or the whole edifice will come down and bury us all

[peanut pusher]

This is in the transfer doc to be approved by both sides.

Has to be approved by both parties and they are asking s/h csm's to put in a expression of interest.
L/H Faaa would almost have to take the phone off the hook to hold back the "don't you dare" phone calls.

PP

[Pegasus747]

The only transfers of CSMs in category are on a one for one basis. ie one SH csm transfers to LH in Category as long as one LH CSM wants to go to SH in category AT THE SAME TIME.

Net change zero
Promotional slots lost Zero

Hysteria NORMAL

[RedTBar]

Memo from s/h:

Will the last crew member leaving s/h please turn the lights off:eek:

The next 12 months is going to be interesting for all of us.

[call button]

I believe there are more than 250 SH crew on the transfer list. Apparently many are ex longhaulers, who left LH in different circumstances, and now want to go back. Many have now become CSM's at SH. The company are calling for 'expressions of interest' for CSM's wishing to transfer in catergory. I know the rules state that there must be a 1 for 1 swap, however I think the SH EBA may see a 'one off' variation to this rule. We'll have to wait and see.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote- "I think the SH EBA may see a 'one off' variation to this rule."

--------------

Which would severely disadvantage the promotional opportunities of existing Longhaul cabin crew.

I can't imagine that the Longhaul FAAA would agree to this happening.

The Domestics can enter into a force long service leave "burn" program as occurred to us when our flying was poached.

It'll fix the surplus AND improve morale.

It worked for us..................:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[lowerlobe]

This is in the transfer doc to be approved by both sides.
The news of a surplus within S/H must be spreading fast if they have heard about it in QFUK......;)

[seatedandsecured]

there are 32 transfers to be done from sh to lh in 2 schools before the end of June. SH CSMs who are on the transfer lists to transfer in catergory will be given the oppotunity to transfer over if they are in the top 32

this is from the union

many sh fas put their name on the transfer list because they enjoyed the regional flying so they want to continue to do that type of flying

some sh CSMs feel that they should be given the opportunity to transfer over in catergory as they have been doing the regional flying anyway and have experience rather than promote QCCA to the position

[roamingwolf]

this is from the union
yeah right mate but which union.

sorry boys and girls in s/h but this is like getting in the wrong line at the bank.you were in the wrong line so you will have to wait for your turn.

there are a lot of l/h crew who have waited for a chance to go for the jacket and its not fair to them if someone else trys to jump to the head of the queue.

I reckon there would be a riot it was the other way around.be patient and wait for your turn.

[call button]

There is a 4 page SH to LH Divisional Transfer question and answer document on webcentral.

Can someone please tell me why the standard daily traveling allowance (DTA) for males is $46.20, but for females is only $44.64?

[mrpaxing]

our make up, dear. we need more these days:oh:

[mrpaxing]

with roaming s/h has not earned the right to tranfer in category. too many of our l/h guys have waited long enough for promotions. some junior guys may want to go to s/h but funny enough too many senior ones want to come accross from s/h. if they union is stupied enough to ignore the wishes of its members good luck. the next election isn't too far away. a little reminder to our union guys here go out and canvass members for their opinion. its pretty clear cut as i found out last night over drinks here accross the pacific.:=

[Pegasus747]

the next FAAA election is 4 years away. But the FAAA LH has made its point clear several times so lets move on. Transfers in category are only on a mutual swap basis.

As for the SDTA being different for females and men. It's because female crew are supplied with Panty Hose and males purchase their own socks.

Dont stress about SH CSMs coming over ....the LH FAAA will NEVER agree to it. Now if the company decided to do it anyways against the wishes of the LH FAAA and its members i am sure there would be a legal challenge to that .......

[PattyStacker]

Just to clarify.....
Patty Stacker is a Mass Meat cooking device used by McDonalds.
Patty Stacker is also a FANTASTIC Drag Queen Name.

Female I am Not
Homophobe I am not. If I was my boyfriend might have objections to it.

[peanut pusher]

Hysteria NORMAL

Ok got the mail on this

Maybe the transfer doc needs a update because it doesn't read that way.

FYI next union company get together, note please amend misleading reference to s/h csm transfer.

[Green.Dog]

If there were no off shore bases.
No domestics
No trolls
We were all on the page.
We were valued by our employer
We were given the tools/resources to do our job properly
Dixon had a heart attack in the next 15 minutes......
Yes Yes I know....

[RedTBar]

Sounds like Disneyland where everything is rosy.But back on dry land you understand that things cannot go backwards.
With GD,personally I don't care for the fella and if he left to join greenpeace and stop the whale hunting I could not be happier.
But I don't wish him or anyone bad health let alone a heart attack.If you have ever known someone close who has had one you will know what I mean
As far as being valued by our employer.
Yeah well one of these days I might win lotto but I doubt it

[Domestos]

Pegasus 747, or anyone else, are you able to shed some light as to how the company and the SH union plucked a random figure of "32" from their posterior opening, considering the fact that there are over 300 names on the transfer list and that transfers have not been actioned in years?

Yes....I am dying to get out of biscuit chucking and away from the biscuit chucking Beehives.

[RedTBar]

Domestos,I was trying to work out what BCB stood for.:D
I always thought they just had a fetish for doilies!
It looks like the senior girls/hive union is going ahead with plans again without asking anyone else what they think of the arrangements.

Have you seen anything in writing from the company or is this just another lot of buzzing and smoke signals from the beehive?
I don't know about the number 32 but maybe it is the number of csms that want to come across or maybe it's the number of cappacino's they drink each day in the office.

[RedTBar]

Pegasus,how often do you guys in the office talk to the girls in the other office?
Or is it like the cold war after our last EBA?

[Domestos]

Yeah, 32 is the official number quoted by the Beehive Union...I get my union memos delivered to my phone straight away before they even get printed off and put in mailboxes. The strange thing is....even though the Beehive Union have told us in writing that it is 32......neither the company nor the LH Union have verified this in writing themselves.....eg. the DCIS screens mention transfers will be actioned but the company itself have not specifically stated HOW MANY will transfer.....which leads me to think that the company will dangle this carrot in front of us.

Where's my Mortein insect spray??????? God I can't wait to get to LH....

[Domestos]

The problem with the SH union is that it is weak. I am so ashamed to be a member of this union when I see how strong the LH union is. The SH union is lead by certain individual CSMs who do not necessarily have the membership's needs at heart. Whenever the company requires certain EBA provisions to be broken or bent, the SH Union (ala CSMs who are keen on feathering their own caps) are quick at dishing out dispensations left right and centre. There is definitely a conflict of interest happening here. I doubt very much the SH union will be able to gather support on a united front for the next EBA given the fact that they have piked on us so many times and we have lost faith in them to defend our rights.

I wish we had the know how and the funding like you guys and gals at LH do by hiring REAL people with REAL expertise to fight battles....

[Green.Dog]

The transfers are done on a one for one basis.
It is also dependant on manpower requirements.
Most if not all the transfers are going to Melbourne.

[veronica]

"I am so ashamed to be a member of this union when I see how strong the LH union is."


I have never laughed so hard in my life. Strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :yuk:

[Pegasus747]

THe Company has always determined the number of Divisional Transfers based on operational requirements.

The SH EBA requires divisional transfers to occur each year. There is no number specified in the EBA however.

The LH EBA has no requirement for the company to have divisional transfers on a mandatory basis.

The number 32 is a number picked by the company given the operational needs of the business.

There will be 32 from SH to LH and an equal number from LH to SH. If there are no LH wishing to go to SH then the company will allow 32 to go from SH to LH.

CSMs will also be allowed to transfer in category but only in equal numbers and only from mel to mel or sydney to sydney or brisbane to Brisbane. If there is no CSM in LH wishing to TRansfer to SH then there will be no CSM transfers at all.

Hope this clears it up. My understanding is the the LH FAAA concluded discussions today and that a newsletter to members will be issued tommorrow to Lh members outlining the above but with probably a few more details than i am privy too

[Domestos]

I'm waiting to laugh at what the company are gonna give us in return for all the things they will be stripping off SH....hmmm....me thinks they will entice us with PAID 2 years Paternity leave (oh whoopee); an extra muesli bar on our breakfast tray (yes please); a bonus URTI sick day per calendar year (oh thank you I needed that);......but if you ring and vote now, the company will even throw in a $500 Gloria Jeans meal break voucher and bonus International Currency man purse. Oh hold me back girls....

[Green.Dog]

Have a look at QF WebCentral for further information

[RedTBar]

Domestos,
But wait there's more:Vote now on the s/h EBA and we will transfer you across to L/H and give you more flying:eek:
To be honest the L/H union has given their fair share of dispensations on the basis of industrial harmony.

[call button]

I can understand that LH are worried about SH coming over and taking promotions, seniority etc, however, the only way QF FA (and not QCCA) numbers will grow is by transfers from SH.

When the next longhaul EBA comes around in 5 years, you will benefit from having more QF FA's. If QCCA numbers become greater then QF, then who knows what will happen.

[Domestos]

Most of the tranferees on the Divisional Transfer list (that I have spoken to anyway) are about 10 years seniority or less, so I guess the fear of being pushed down in seniority for the purposes of bidding is not that great a threat. Besides, I agree with the previous message poster before me.....it is better to have more full time QF crew as there is solidarity in numbers. Lets face it....be it LH or SH....all full time non-QCCA and non-MAM crew are a dying breed.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-

"When the next longhaul EBA comes around in 5 years, you will benefit from having more QF FA's. If QCCA numbers become greater then QF, then who knows what will happen."

--------------

Good point.........

[Pegasus747]

1 May 2008
Attention all Qantas Longhaul Flight Attendants
DIVISIONAL TRANSFERS
There have been some messages on the CIS Screen and on the Cabin Crew Website that have caused some consternation among CSM’s in particular. The Domestic Regional FAAA, have also issued newsletters to their members that pre-empted the formalisation of discussions between the FAAA and the Company.
In 1992 the FAAA (both Division) and Qantas agreed on a principle of “global” seniority following the merger of Australian Airlines and Qantas Airways Limited insofar as Seniority of Cabin Crew was concerned. A trigger mechanism for recognition of seniority was implemented and this in fact took place many years ago.
The issue of CSM or (FSD and Purser) transfers in category was never resolved and resulted in Onboard Managers wishing to transfer between divisions downgrading to Flight Attendant in the new division.
Following the announcement of the closure of the Long Haul Perth Base an agreement was reached between both divisions of the FAAA and Qantas that CSM’s would be able to transfer in category as a result of the Perth Base Closure. The concern of both divisions of the FAAA was the potential effect this may have on promotional opportunities.
Qantas Cabin Crew Management have always wanted to be able to transfer CSM’s between divisions but both divisions of the FAAA have always been concerned about the potential effect on promotion and have been discussing the mechanics of how this might occur without affecting base transfers and denying promotional opportunities.
It is always an emotive issue and the discussions have been at times colourful at our council meetings. A compromise position has been reached that benefits CSM’s who may wish to transfer whilst at the same time protecting the bases and promotional opportunities.
The Company has always been able to determine the number of crew who can transfer between divisions. There is no requirement for a set number. Operational circumstances have always been the determining factor in the numbers of crew to be transferred.
During the recent Long Haul EBA negotiations the issue of CSM transfers was canvassed again with your Long Haul officials and we were mindful of the views of the wider membership and we reached a compromise position which I will outline below.
• The company may continue to offer transfers between the respective divisions as operational circumstances permit.

• In the cases of Hardship or significant changes to personal circumstances, the AEC (Alternate Employment Committee) may also review transfer matters on a case by case basis in accordance with its charter.

• CSM’s will also be able to transfer in category between the divisions but only on a one for one basis and within the same geographic bases. For example if a LH CSM in Sydney wished to transfer to SH Sydney then a transfer can be affected. If there was no SH CSM wanting to go to LH Sydney then no category transfer could be affected. This would also apply in reverse.

• This Category transfer process agreement is designed to ensure promotional opportunities are not eroded in either division whilst at the same time giving CSM’s the ability to move between divisions if there are equal numbers wishing to do so in the other division.

• The transfers must be carried out at the same time, so that no imbalance in numbers occurs in either division.
Of course we recognise that the whole issue of choice, seniority and career progression are paramount to our members and we are confident that this balanced approach will both fulfil the changing needs of our members whilst at the same time protecting those things that are important to others.
The recent EBA8 has opened significant promotional opportunities for Long Haul Flight Attendants; it will unblock base transfer issues, create opportunities for thousands of new jobs to be created in the Long Haul Division (most importantly in AUSTRALIA) and will provide opportunities for part-time for crew with family or other responsibilities.
We are meeting with the Company on an almost daily basis given the significant amount of change dealing with the implementation of the EBA and all the benefits that flow from a successful EBA outcome.
Despite all the benefits of the EBA, there may be some flight attendants who wish to transfer to Short Haul. This swap provision will facilitate this. If however no Long Haul CSMs in particular wish to move to short haul in category, then the agreement will not permit SH CSMs to transfer to LH either. This of course works in reverse.
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings and assuages any concerns about the future career aspirations of crew.

Written and authorised by Steven Reed – President International Division

[seatedandsecured]

SH CSMs will be asked for expressions of interest to transfer to LH as CSMs otherwise LH will be looking at QCCA's who have been interviewed for the CSM position being allocatted.........................which would you prefer? SH who have had some experience or QCCA who r 20? and want experience?

And take note QCCA's have been interviewd for the CSM position

[Pegasus747]

i would prefer a new long haul flight attendant who is promoted to CSM from Long Haul rather than a Beehive with 30 years experience flying from bumble**** to proserpine.

Given further choice i would prefer an ex LH crewmember who has been in short haul, wanting to shake off the remnants of that culture and return to International flying.

[roamingwolf]

I reckon I know what the answer would be from s/h and the beehive union if a bunch of csm's from l/h wanted to jump ship and transfer across to the domestics in category.

c'mon boys and girls stick to the agreement.If you want to go for the job then transfer across and wait for the next intake and do all the bells and whistles they expect everyone else to do.
there are people in l/h who have waited for a chance for a crack at the job so why should s/h have it any easier.

this is why there is so much feeling against s/h.we have a agreement with s/h but s/h reckons that only applys to l/h and if it suits them they should be able to brake it.

[cartexchange]

seatedandsecured
which would you prefer? SH who have had some experience or QCCA who r 20? and want experience?



QCCA any day! the domestics have no idea how much resentment they have created against them, they are plain simply loathed in LH:rolleyes:

Anyway, there are heaps of people they can select in LH before they even look at QCCA, yes its true some QCCA have been interviewed, buts only a "token" interview if you know what I mean.

[Domestos]

cartexchange......oh dear....I'm gonna be petrified when I come across to LH if I know I will be hated by my fellow crew. I'm just gonna be me, do my work, shut up and not buy into or comment about the politics of the past. I know I am powerless to change what happened with EBA 7 and how flying was stripped away from LH. I'm just gonna blend in and enjoy the relaxed and calm work ethic at LH...unlike working with the beehive who stress out and are so anal retentive that if they sat down, they'd swallow up their own honeycomb.

[cartexchange]

you will be fine Domestos, LH crew are not as petty as the domestics and we usually don't take it out on the individual.
its the beehive brigade and their greed and selfishness we despise.
Their act of betrayal to our work conditions will never be forgotten or forgiven.
And when the president of the FAAA went to work in the LHR base that was the ultimate act of "beehive bastardy Behaviour"

[GalleyHag]

Look I am the last person that will defend the domestic faaa. However if my memory serves me correctly wasnt it the long haul faaa that came to us cap in hand requesting that long haul CSM's be transfered in category when the Perth based closed? Never before had CSM's ever been transfered like that therefore we wouldnt be seeing this opportunity for CSM's to transfer to either division if it wasnt for the initial request by the long haul faaa in the first instance.

RedTBar, I thnk short haul has done the same remember back in 2001/2002 there were hundreds of long haul crew transfered to short haul due to sept 11, SARS the start of the middle east war etc and we accepted this no questions asked as I for one certainly would not want to see a fellow crew member out of job when one was available in another division. Therfore I personally think it only fair it goes both ways. We never saw the numbers transfered to long haul from short haul that came our way.

Pegasus747, I think you would find the beehive girls would never go to long haul anyway. The CSM's that bid for regional flying do so because they choose to and enjoy it and really know what they are doing by all accounts and the vast majority are ex long haul anyway.

Just on another note I noticed from previous posts that you mention the long haul faaa did not want to see a closure of the Perth and Cairns bases therefore the percentage of regional flying would be retained by those bases. However I note from the new long haul bid book that Perth will loose just about all their regional flying Hong Kong has already gone and from the start of your next bid period Singaapore is going as well, this will create even more surplus crew within short haul.

Something is certainly going on though re divisional transfers and I am sure this is linked to the up-coming EBA. Interesting times ahead.

[Pegasus747]

Given that no long Haul CSM's wish to transfer to Short Haul unfortunately there can be no reciprocal transfer in category.

As for the SHort Haul EBA, the FAAA SH need to recognise that LH are not the competition. Virgin Blue, Team Jetstar and Tiger are the competition. The EBA outcome is more likely to reflect that reality rather than the view that SH is competing with LH.

The LH EBA8 recognised that their competition is Singapore Airlines and Emirates. Given that reality check the EBA was geared towards being able to compete on an effective Intl basis.

The new entrants couple with some work practice changes have put us back in the ball park.

The Company has clearly re-defined its operations and sees LH very much as the International Division. And SH as the Domestic Division. Much of the competition domestically will be the battle ground for EBA8 SH negotiations and the company is expecting the SH FAAA to make themselves more competitive on the domestic front.

Dropping trips, FWA, and a range of things will be up for discussion given the Team Jetstar EBA and the new entrants in the domestic market.

Let's move on from Regional FLying ETC. Its a DONE DEAL and there is no going back. The lines have been drawn and you have to order from the menu you are given not the restuarant next door

[cartexchange]

you are correct Galley hag in some of your points.

It was the FAAA intl that approached the domestics about the CSM transfer.
It was to protect a few individuals in the PER base, its also an act that has not been forgotten my many!

We all found it hard to believe that we opened a can of worms for 4 or 5 individuals that knew what the deal was if they went to PER.

[call button]

A notice was put out from the shorthaul union yesterday entitled 'May Contingency Plans'. Apparently a large amount of flying has been transferred back to shorthaul this month, and a number of steps have been put into place to cover this flying. The company is calling for expressions of interest for people wishing to work days off, pick up extra flying etc. Resources are extremely tight on many days.

This action has been taken to limit the number of patterns currently rostered and covered by the Divisional Flying Agreement being transferred to Long Haul. Qantas will contact the FAAA as soon as practicable if it becomes aware that contingency plans may be needed on any other days during May.

[Pegasus747]

Regional FLying ..SH 25% LH 75%...they will shift bits and pieces all the time however the numbers must add up to 75/25

[DJCCGuy]

Will the new S/H EBA open up any full time employment opportunities for new S/H crew?