Anybody here flying the Falcon 7X ?

[jacjetlag]

Greetings...wondering if anyone has a flying job on this new aircraft. How is the machine and the pay, if I may ask. Thanks in advance.

[jacjetlag]

No takers? Well then, what do you think it should pay? Same as a G550/650 ?

[weido_salt]

It has winglets, and extra engine and it is a "big" a/c. Bare in mind, unbeknown to you, you are probably part of the test flight program.:}

I would go for a 30% rise if I were you.:suspect:

[L'Argonauta]

My old boss would have said:
" you should pay to fly it! " :p

[jetopa]

@ weido salt:

Do I read any negative vibes in your comment? Is this the old 'Francophobia' that used to be notorious in your area?:=

Let's face it, any new machine is prone to growing pains of any kind. Be it French, American or whatever. I don't know why the big airframers keep making the same screw-ups and promise things they can't keep. The A380, A400M and B787 are only the most recent examples.

But I know this for sure: the 7X is a very nice and powerful machine which is capable of doing the same as a G500 - at a much lighter mass (= minus 24,000 lbs or so) and at higher speeds. Whenever this thing is fully ready, it will be fun to drive.

And yes, in terms of salary this should be in the same category like the Gulfstreams. Particularly considering the exclusivity of being in the club of holders of a type rating...

[Flintstone]

the exclusivity of being in the club of holders of a type rating...


Now I'm sure I'm wrong but this reads to me as being from someone who is either on a commission from Dassault, has been reading too many sales brochures or is under the impression that the type rating maketh the man.

Surely nobody would be that shallow?;)

[CL300]

The 7X, besides the FBW once it is in flight above 400ft on take Off and before 50 ft on landing is agreat aircraft. HOWEVER,

Avionics is outdated, not the hardware, the mess that Dassault did with Epic.
Look at what Gulfstream got, it is a winner hand down.

the documentation is awfull, there is nearly 4000 pages, and half of it is useless and another 25% is trying to convince the birds how to fly.

The only nice thing on the Easy is the FPV, but what a trade-off !!!

Even if my heart is flying falcon, I have to say that these last versions are not properly fine tuned, the 2000 Easy or worse the 900 Easy 5 years down in production have NO vertical OR Lateral guidance on Take-Off below 400 ft!

The 7x trims stops FROZEN at 50 ft; if the stick is held to long on touch down the NWS has only 1.5° of authority.. Answer : Differential braking works... The list goes on for ever....

And wait for the Xwind limit of 23 kt....what a beast !!!!!

This is a miss , this aircraft is good on the ramp, but no thank you... I would rather fly a Global.... that says it all...

[jr of dallas]

Hello CL 300,

Just a Simple question : Do you currently fly the 7x or the 900Ez ?

Rgds

[jacjetlag]

I'm curious to know what the benefit of vertical and lateral guidance would be below 400 ft. It does Cat 3's...is there something I'm missing?

[jr of dallas]

and the triming below 50 ft...???

[CL300]

jr of dallas : We are not going to argue on the flaws of the Easy family and like, seing that you are located in LBG, you should have all these infos first hand.

Since 199" , when the concept was designed EASy did not evolved at all. Gulfstream has just certified on Epic software, the full synthetic vision, with flying color, FPV and else, where are we with the falcons ? The answers are ALWAYS the same at operators meetings... We will look into it.. The Coode's need revision for years and nothing is done, the LX is in limbo, and 7x's ramping up in hangars, for "completion".

jungle drums :

I do agree 100%; however it is difficult to write in an operator manual, the proper way to fly these aircrafts since Dassault does not give a damn to change the litterature (Codde) in order for us to have a paper backup. So for the time being we are stuck with controversial modus operandi.

7x's......well Certification, Operations; hopefully the old guys are now leaving the flight test center, and we might see the light.....

[saffron]

Understand the 7X is way too heavy,& not delivering on brochure promises.

[jetopa]

Now I'm sure I'm wrong but this reads to me as being from someone who is either on a commission from Dassault, has been reading too many sales brochures or is under the impression that the type rating maketh the man.

No, I'm definitely not from Dassault nor am I an sales brochure afficionado. Rather an end user who is temporarily 'forced' to steer a (in my personal opinion) far inferior product from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean.

Other than that I am okay. Thanks!

[Flintstone]

Never mind. I'm sure being a member of an exclusive club will make you feel better:rolleyes:

[pilotbear]

think you mean excusive flinty:E

[kenhughes]

From the Dassault website: The Falcon 7X achieves its maximum range with a large payload-eight passengers, plus a crew of four (three pilots and a flight attendant).

Why three pilots? One for each engine?

[jr of dallas]

crew duty time and flight time if flying under JAA AOC I guess....(on the paper )

[jr of dallas]

The 7X, besides the FBW once it is in flight above 400ft on take Off and before 50 ft on landing is agreat aircraft. HOWEVER,

Avionics is outdated, not the hardware, the mess that Dassault did with Epic.
Look at what Gulfstream got, it is a winner hand down.

the documentation is awfull, there is nearly 4000 pages, and half of it is useless and another 25% is trying to convince the birds how to fly.

The only nice thing on the Easy is the FPV, but what a trade-off !!!

Even if my heart is flying falcon, I have to say that these last versions are not properly fine tuned, the 2000 Easy or worse the 900 Easy 5 years down in production have NO vertical OR Lateral guidance on Take-Off below 400 ft!

The 7x trims stops FROZEN at 50 ft; if the stick is held to long on touch down the NWS has only 1.5° of authority.. Answer : Differential braking works... The list goes on for ever....

And wait for the Xwind limit of 23 kt....what a beast !!!!!

This is a miss , this aircraft is good on the ramp, but no thank you... I would rather fly a Global.... that says it all...


Number 200th just been lined up on completion line !
Give me your adress I' ll send you a sticker...


GOOD Catch CL300 :ok::D

[CL300]

I have the sticker, the key holder, the bag, the flight suit, the cap, the books, i must be missing something in the middle..:)
4 years went by, since my last post on this thread. They managed to fix a lot of stuff, hopefully !
Does this make the 7X a better plane ? the initial design flaws are still present, it is just a little bit more reliable; but the crews are still crossing their fingers at the FBW test, or when the aircraft is towed...
I love Dassault planes, but the 7X.....:ugh:

[Booglebox]

I'm no 7X driver, but the company I work for have a couple, and in the last year or so they haven't "gone tech" once AFAIK.
Also, the pilots absolutely love flying it.
I think MXX is pretty expensive though...

[Klimax]

Currently fortunate to be flying G550s, but always glancing at those Falcons, not even lifting my eyebrow at a Global.

I was wondering if pilots who have flown both the G550 and F7X could elaborate a bit on pro's and con's of The F7X vs The Gs?

Thanks

[FlyMD]

I'm currently flying both a fairly new 7x as well as a brand-new 550, having previously flown both a 900B and loads of GVs and 550s..

It was also my privilege to be the delivery pilot on both birds, giving me some perspective as to how the products are marketed and perceived by the manufacturers themselves.

On the whole, the 550 is the most reliable, mission-capable, versatile bird out there: it wants to go fly, and never quits on you. Although I haver never stretched the 550-legs to their limit, I remember a 14:50 ferry flight with the GV over 6469 air miles, with decent reserve on landing... It just goes and goes..

The 7x on the other hand has been fussy, with penty of little aches and pains, most of which endup being no-gos on the MEL. Even today, you leave the factory with a 20-page " pilot assist list" and a 15-page "dispatch guidance" supposed to help you decide what are nuisance warnings, what are no-gos, and what you might get rid of by just turning the thing off and on again... And thisnis software version 10!
Also, while the Easy platform is generally a more advanced concept than what's applied on the Gulfstream (no more FMS-mcdus, no need for additional panels on the glareshield..), some features are still missing on the 7x: CPDLC, PDC for example will only come with Easy 2, with no final release date published..

However! The last 6 month or so have been pretty smooth sailing on the Falcon, with only minor squawks. Also, some of the capabilities we require, like operation into London City and other smaller airfields, you can just plain forget eve doing with a Gulfstream or a Global. Overall our customer is happy with his cabin (yes, with additional soundproofing it IS the quietest in the sky!), and when we were able to fly him from the South of France to Singapore direct the other day, that put a smile on his face..
Lastly, the FBW controls: they are EXCELLENT! Compared to the Airbusses I have known (319-20-21), they are not only simpler, faster and more intuitive, but crosswind landings and take-offs are now absolutely problem-free up to 25knots cross... Personnally, I would not hesitate to attempt a 30knots cross landing on a standard runway..

Lastly, we come to the ONE big difference which for me makes the 550 the match-winner:

When you buy a Falcon, the chief pilot will give you a little briefing about the latest software version, and announce with a smile that all issues have been solved (!), and that you now own the best product in the world..
As a pilot, you get your account set up with DassaultFalcon, and start getting little Falcon Service Advisories about new issues and incidents on the fleet, and here is the rub: when a component is identified as failure prone, Dassault will conclude its bulletin by saying similar components will be replaced free of charge on AN ATTRITION BASIS, meaning "when yours breaks down we'll come and fix it". As a result, We have missed 2 customer flights while waiting for parts that we KNEW were prone to failure before it happened.

Now on the 550, the same delivery briefing is given to customers by the reliability program manager, and he will go over every single known issue with you, and more often than not, faulty components identified on other serial numbers will prompt a FLEET-WIDE inspection and exchange program BEFORE it happens again!! Gulfstream spend a lot of money on this kind of program, and the result shows in the 99.8% dispatch reliability, which for once I actually believe as a customer.

So on the whole, while both aircraft will have snags, and the 7x is the sleeker of the 2 products, the 550 wins the day for reliability and ease of operation. It's not set in stone however, and I will be watching with interest both the 650 program as well as the continued improvement on the 7x with Easy2..

Hope I was able to shed a useful light on a few questions askes in this thread..

FlyMD

[captainmorgan888]

Thanks for this post :ok: !

[Klimax]

FlyMD,

Many thanks for your post.. Very good info.

Klimax

[jr of dallas]

thanks FlyMD very interesting !

[jaja]

FlyMD I want your job !

Having flown the last 16 years on the A320/321, I surely miss the challenges flying business jets around the world.
Gulfstreams are the best looking equipment out there, and I would very much appreciate sitting in the front left seat of one.........

[FlyMD]

Thanks for making me see how good my life is..

However I confess that sometimes, when juggling slots into congested airports, worrying about pilot and FA rosters, running last minute errands for the Boss while trying to pacify the maintenance manager and our accountants, I find myself longing for the simpler times when flying the airplane was pretty much all the company asked me to do...

Be careful what you wish for...

[rsiano]

I am looking for the 24 bit aircraft address code for a Dassault 7X?
Thanks in advance!
Dick Siano

[Immortal]

Just out of curiosity.

Can you keep flying (and holding altitude) with just 1 of the 3 engines running on the tri-jet Falcon 7X?

[Dash 7 Rider]

Yes, it does surprisingly well on one engine. Considering that those little PW's are only producing 6400lbs of thrust and MTOW is 70,000lbs. Mid weight it should hold onto about 15,000 feet on one engine.

Of course.... Would you really want to be in that position?

[inflatable_pilot]

your boss must be from NYC or Israel

[Desert185]

A friend has been flying the 7X for a number of years now, and he despises the airplane. According to him, the 900EX was a better airplane from a flying and reliability standpoint. His favorite after nine corporate type ratings? The Gulfstream.

My son, who flies the 4 and 550, loves the Gulfstreams.

I haven't ever flown the 7X, but my impression, after hearing the stories, is that it is another case of too much college and not enough high school.

[falconeasydriver]

Hated the 7X all talk...but no substance, the 900 on the other hand, practical no where near as quirky and for the most part it worked.
Not a patch on the 777 I drive these days, but for a corporate jet, my heart is in the 900.

[brostovsky]

Falcon 900EX is probably the most versatile aircraft out there.

[FlyMD]

Can't say I disagree with anything posted above.. but in the end, ladies and gents, it's the customer who chooses the airplane that best suits his needs! Just 3 citypairs I planned last year, let's hear from anybody who has done them with something else than a 7x :hmm:

London City - Boston Logan

San Francisco - St-Tropez (La Môle)

Saanen - Cairo

All sectors done within limits of AOC ops and with no cheating on RWY analysis or W+B... :ok:


FlyMD

[atalanta89]

i landed 3 month ago in Saanen (Switzerland) and it was quite tricky approach.

Did all the approach at Vref+1 or 2kt with Hawker. :ugh:

[DOCTOR BOMBAY]

I fly the Falcon 7X, have flown the717/767/757/747 and the 320/330, all i can say is its great fun bit of gear ,the fbw system is much better than the airbuses and with the latest updates, i have had no problems.

[FCS_TEST]

Hi FlyMD, what software is your company using for perf. Calculation and W&B?

[Booglebox]

FCS_TEST: previous company I worked for used Flygprystanda Guru - great bit of kit. Crews love it too

[FCS_TEST]

Yep i know that one...don't think it runs on Ipad though...

[Booglebox]

No, not as far as I know.
Another reason to use a Windows-based tablet instead of an iPad.... :}

[First.officer]

GURU definitely isn't available as an iPad App - whether that changes in the future, who knows, but am guessing not for the forseeable future. Can't deny, having played with GURU recently, it is very easy to use and very user-friendly.

F/o

[FCS_TEST]

Guru is going to be available on Ipad this year probably before summer that what their customer representative told me on the phone last december...
I played with APG, anyone using something else than the previously 2 mentioned?