Leaving the Airlines for something simpler.

[fourgolds]

OK so after flying Busses and Boeings around the world with many different nationalities and a growing discontent at working conditions and lifestyle in particular I have a curiosity.

There must be those among us that have left the " Big" boys and pursued a simpler life. The thought of cranking a King Air to 45 degrees of bank in a mountain valley , or God forbid a momentry sink rate more than 1000 feet per minute on approach , or perhaps bug + 15 on a 4000m runway without having to do the paperwork , kinda gives me a hard on !

If you know of any true stories of those that have left the "big boys" for a better , less stressfull quality of life then please share with us. Especially if you are able to make a living. Salaries , disposable income , where you live etc. There must be so much more you can do with this qualification. Perhaps its a mid life crisis , perhaps a search for reality.

Example ( and I may be way off and a dreamer so feel free to correct me or put me in touch with reality)

"King Air 200 Medivac and ad hoc charter Captain , Based in Utopia , Married to Mary Lou , 2 kids , dog. Nice home , enough time to ride my bike with Mary Lou , walk the dog and do a little surfing .Enough money to pay the morgage ( and look after Mary Lou). Kids are being schooled. Not quite enough for their university education . Mary Lou is a teacher so this helps. Average 40 hours a month , proper pention and great medical cover. AM CONTENT "

or
" Beaver float plane pilot British Columbia. Its my PLane , My own bussiness . Mainly seasonal , flying fisherman and hunters to lodges etc. Its seasonal , but instruct out of season. Have a great time shagging the occassional tourist ( last ones name was mary lou). Have a dog that I get to walk when I am not playing golf. Sure I am not rich but get by "

or
"777 captain , lost the plot !!! "

Hit me.

[NG_Kaptain]

DC3 freighter in the Virgin Islands. Uniform....Blue jeans, tee shirt and flip flops. Not having to do any loading, all flights below 3,000 feet with the window open.:O

[BoeingBoy]

DC3 freighter in the Virgin Islands

Does your airline have online applications??:}

FourGolds, I totally agree. Twenty eight years flying airliners and I could leave it tomorrow if I could get a buzz. I am not married to Mary Lou (Mine's called Gina) but I do have two Labs and a paid for house.

The closest I got to what you are talking about was to fly a floatplane in Scotland last year. Total freedom, challenging flying and a fabulous buzz of being a novice with much to learn about floats and mountain flying, and that with 22,000 hours! Of course there's no money in instructing but if I can just get the jet set jobbie pension fund to stretch I feel it may be the route to happiness for me.

As you say though. Give me a poky GA type and a departure from a Norwegian Fjiord and I'd be a pig in brown smelly stuff.

Wannabe's?.....wake up to reality. There is no utopia above FL200.

[Dash2Class]

Fourgolds,

Wonderfully written opening to what could be a great thread. Will be checking back often. Good luck with the Mid Life Crisis. Am I too young and inexperienced for mine yet? (31)Hoping it comes soon and like a thunder bolt :E

[beachbumflyer]

I just retired two years ago. Don´t miss working at all. I do what I want.
I miss flying, though, so I´m thinking of buying a new C-182 floatplane
to base it in the Caribbean and go there in the winter to fly when I want
and to where I want. :ok:

[rwy24c]

take your floatplane to alaska...
caribbean makes more sense with a sailboat.
good luck anyway...!

[Inspector Clueless]

One of the guys I knew,after 20 years in the airline as a widebody capt has recently started his own floatplane business out of Glasgow flying to Loch Lomand and beyond-and they need pilots!

Dont know what the Ts & Cs are like though,certainly no flip flops but there may well be kilt and a wetsuit thrown in.

Great job-IMHO-providing you havent got a wife/husband and kids to look after.

Cheers-IC

[GlueBall]

Divorced. No kids. No debts. No overhead. Homeless. Flush with cash. Call it: Long haul utopia. ;)

[Cloud Bunny]

Just been reading an article in this months Airliner World about Air Whitsunday, a company that fly Caravans and Beavers on floats around the Great Barrier Reef. Ferrying pax to various islands, sightseeing flights etc. Made my mind up straight awaty that as soon as the debts are paid, the mortgage is gone I'm off! Sounded like the most perfect job in the world, great little plane, summer all year round, not the most expensive cost of living. Wonderful!!:)

[richatom]

Maybe AirSea Lines (http://www.airsealines.com/) might suit you?

I'd love to work for them. I'd just sail my boat down there and be a floater for them, ready to move from base to base just whenever they liked...

Unfortunately they haven't even replied to my emails so not sure if they really are recruiting.

[BoeingBoy]

Just how many times do you think I've been to Corfu in the last 28 years!!:rolleyes:

And you want me go there in retirement????:{

Looks a nice operation though. Sadly I suspect it's for Greek Nationals only.

[Redline]

AirSeaLines has problems getting experienced EU Floatplane Captain so has a deal with the Hellenic CAA that there will be no work permit problem for their Canadian Skippers if they recruit exclusively Greek FO's....

I've jump in the RHs of one of their aircraft for a quick trip between islands.... Trust me, you would sell a kidney for a job...total bliss

[what_goes_up]

If you are looking for a flying job in shorts, check this out:

Twin Otter Float (http://www.transmaldivian.com/pilot.htm)

[TWOTBAGS]

Guys I did the Twin Otter Float gig for 3 years and now I punch buttons on the mcp, my only advice is…… its not all its cracked up to be.

Between the exhilaration of landing in crystal clear lagoons on a sunny day and reversing up the beach, tying the plane to a palm tree and being greeted with the customary “paradise cocktail”………… (ok it was not like this all the time)

It was some of the highest risk assessment flying I have ever done and that includes PNG and Angola!

Between speedboats, sailboats, windsurfers, swimmers, snorkelers, sand bars, reefs, sunken stuff and general junk in the water always where you want to land. Add in swell, constant crosswind, no airports, no handling, no approaches, no traffic services, plenty of traffic, air tragic controllers that truly were……

Then there is sitting on the dock waiting for the storm to pass, 47 kts indicated airspeed one engine running to keep it straight while tied to the dock, swimming out to the plane at “O dark thirty” because no one can find the boat driver….. then spending the rest of the day wet…….. pushing last light, mixing the swell with the wind, the reef and of course the only place to land directly into the sun for the “Golden Approach” feeling you retina’s burn like your on planet crematoria.


Ok you got the picture.

Plenty want it, not many make it, you really need the hands and feet, which unfortunately most guys I know up here in the “levels” have forgotten how to use.

Its not for those who are not willing to put in 100% day in day out. Full Stop. I don’t really think it is a retirement gig.

But hey.

You only live once……. Go for it! Best fun you can have with your clothes on :}

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z96/redlum5x5/HUM.jpg

[BoeingBoy]

Twobags. What a great post and what a great photograph. Of course you are right, nothing in commercial aviation is perfect (Unless you're the boss!)

Your post reminded me of my time before the jet airlines where I would haul Bandits and Twotters around Scotland and Scandivia in the late Seventies in weather conditions and commercial pressure that I would not want to experience again.

The difference to us oldies this time round is that if we're told to 'fly or die' or told to 'fly or walk' we can choose. Once retired from our Boeings the boss can go suck his thumb if we don't want to go into that cloud cover or fly with that dodgy engine. That's the big difference from being twenty to sixty.

I can't wait..........mind you my bosses are afraid of me now so I must be well on the way to making the grade as a grumpy old retiree.

;)

[indie cent]

Agreed, great post TWOTBAGS.

However, excuse my hignorance, but...

"...where you want to land. Add in swell, constant crosswind..."

...in a float-plane???

Last of the problems I'd have expected!!:confused:

[Saxon Ops]

Indie Cent

I'm not an expert - I don't think I'm even a competent amateur - but I presume landing options are limited due all manner of factors, especially in a lagoon, and most landings are somewhere near parallel to the beach / shore, which is invariably perpendicular to prevailing winds. I might be wrong but I suspect that might be the reason for the crosswinds.

Sorry if that sounds like an egg sucking response - not intended to offend - just a guess at the reasoning for twobags statement

[papazulu]

"King Air 200 Medivac and ad hoc charter Captain , Based in Utopia , Married to Mary Lou , 2 kids , dog. Nice home , enough time to ride my bike with Mary Lou , walk the dog and do a little surfing .Enough money to pay the morgage ( and look after Mary Lou). Kids are being schooled. Not quite enough for their university education . Mary Lou is a teacher so this helps. Average 40 hours a month , proper pention and great medical cover. AM CONTENT "

Sounds like the guy that resigned from here about 3 weeks ago. But he's still working his notice period so...you might wish giving a bell to the office! ;)

Best luck

PZ :ok:

[XXPLOD]

British Antarctic Survey were advertising for a Twotter pilot recently. Good money and T&C, but I guess you've got to like the environment!

[hunterboy]

Twotbags Were you complaining or boasting with your post? Sounds like an ideal job to most of us the way you describe it!

[main_dog]

Add in swell, constant crosswind..."

...in a float-plane???

Last of the problems I'd have expected!!

I'm even more ignorant about floats than saxon ops, but (based on the recommended Boeing and Airbus ditching procedures :hmm:) with any significant swell (which will usually be perpendicular to the wind) it is preferable to land aligned with the swells... thus the crosswind.

I think...:}

Anyway, back on topic, I've always thought THIS job must be cool:


http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1241912&size=L&width=1024&height=1122&sok=&photo_nr=

[er340790]

Interesting thread. The theme of floatplanes keeps arising.....

Back in 2005 I did my ASES training at Browns - probably one of the tiny minority who actually get to use the rating - have a 1946 J3.

Anyway, there were 4 of us on the course - as a humble PPL I challenge anyone to find another place where you can learn, as comparative equals, alongside a Space-Shuttle pilot, a South-West Airlines Captain and a North Sea oil rig helicopter F/O. What struck me most was that all 3 of these professionals to a man stated that they did the seaplane course solely to get back to the basics of airmanship, stick 'n' rudder, no-computers, simple joy of flying. Really makes you think.

So, can you combine the simple life with the pay and benefits of a senior post in a main line operation? Almost certainly not. Not unless you own the operation. What you have to decide is how much $ is enough personally (you'd often be surprised how little you actually need, compared to what you think you need) then take the step. If you don't think you can do it, then you can't.

As they say 'life is short and when standing before St Peter, no-one regrets not putting in more time at the office'.

[TWOTBAGS]

Main Dog & Indie,

Your have hit the nail on the head, in any open water operations you must always parallel the swell. Or you will simply bash the aircraft to death very quickly.:{

Floating hull types (Mallard/CL415 et al) are a little bit better suited to open water ops but still must parallel the swell same principals apply.

To answer Hunterboy… well I am not complaining just trying to highlight the grass is definitely not greener. Hands down the stick and rudder flying is unsurpassed, luckily my career has covered gliders, single and multi helicopters, single and multi pistons and turbines, medium bizjets to Boeings, and on every continent except Antarctica and South America. But from a flying perspective for me nothing beats the hands on nature of float ops.:ok:

Everything is different in its own way and I have yet to experience anywhere near the constant risk assessment and re-evaluation of flight/ground safety that I did in 3 years on, open water floats.

I have never had to swim out to a Boeing at 0530 morning to start it and move it to the terminal! But that is par for the course if you are sitting in the left seat of a TwinOtter Floatie when the boat driver does not show. :ugh:

Commercial Float & Rotary ops share many common attributes when it comes to off strip and confined area ops, with many shared principals. However it stops once on the water where you now become a boat. :}

So if you have entertained the idea of swapping seniority, a roster and stable income. For hard work, random challenging events, and pure exhilaration of conquering the elements with a unique combination of man and machine, there is no better place to cut your teeth than on floats.:ok:

The challenge is simply unique.

Airline pilots, PPL’s and Space Shuttle Skippers cant all be wrong



Can they? :E

[hunterboy]

TWOTBAGS You lucky,lucky b*****d !!!! I can think of more than a few pilots at work that would swap with you.....

[su26drvr]

Never made it to the airlines. When I got the call I was making more then twice their salary flying Be20 in the Arctic. Fly Caravan Amphib in Africa on 6&6 weeks sched. For real fun I fly competition aerobatics and air shows in Su 26. $$ is OK, life is good.

[Monty77]

Rotorua on the lake, North Island New Zealand.

Float planes and light rotary. Sadly, I was only on holiday but as I have ATPL(H) and (A), I very nearly asked if they needed an extra.

Beautiful place, looked like a great job. No swell on a lake either! It's always easy to see things as perfect when you're looking at it with your holiday goggles on.

[richatom]

Well that's more or less what I've been doing for a few years!

If you want some advice on making the switch to a career on yachts send me an email, or check out my website www.yabr.net (http://www.yabr.net) - sort of pprune for professional yachties...

BTW the Oyster skipper wasn't first name Gavin by any chance?

[walu]

Listen Guys and Girls it all comes down to what you make of what you have!
I had a great day today for example, I did one flight and was finished by 11.30 am. I then handed over to my colleague who finished the day's work off which was another two services. Easy peasy!
What was really nice was all the little things! Glassy smooth take-off off the Loch, using cruise power only then sitting comfortably just below the cloud base and reduced visibility whilst ATC so kindly offered me a vectors for the 23 ILS with a break off for the river. I turned them down as politely as I could and continued happily to the River @ 700 ft. The leg out to the West Coast was mostly at 700 ft but with stunning views and fascinated passengers. Gorgeous blue skies and calm conditions greeted us on arrival at Ardantrive Bay. Following a pleasant 10 minutes of chatting and enjoying the fresh air we loaded up and headed off taking in the high road on the way back.
Again the day was the gift to us all and we made the best of it. ATC were without doubt the best I've seen and make what we want to do painless.
The passengers all signed up for an experience and we not in a hurry.
I've seen both ends of the stick, at Flight Levels also and am happy with where I am. I love challenges and continually learning but pay is excellent and lifestyle matches anything going here on the island.
That's my point! Experience teaches you what is good and what's not. If you've only tried a couple of jobs so far then it's hard to know for sure whether you're completely satisfied.
I've done the Whitsunday's, Sydney Harbour, Maldives, Bali, Fiji, Greece stuff and I'm happy here up north!
So long as your happy in the end! I couldn't and wouldn't recommend my path or any particular path to get to this junction either but I'd say a desire to see change and to learn has what's gotten me this far!

Cheer's,

Walu

[Stationair8]

Float-plane job in the Whitsundays.

Had a ride in the Beaver out of Hamiliton Island across to Whitehaven beach, park up on the beach next to the topless sunbathers, no traffic, no ASIC card, no whinging passengers, no security guy hassling you, no ATC, short sectors, bare feet, shorts and a white pilot shirt.

[ewe.lander]

It's a no-brainer 4 golds, like you I am lucky to fly a superb Jet (G550), swan around above 41,000 at Mach .85 worldwide, what do I crave? the old days low level in the C130 -my old boss (now Virgin Atlantic) told me that 'Albert' flying was the sport of kings - he was right. Military salary lousy but real friendship and a proper job! :ok:

[Lafyar Cokov]

The low-level in the military is absolutely fantastic - however that is now a smaller and smaller part of the whole deal and the corporate bullS4i7 that is now starting to snowball makes it an RAF that you wouldn't recognise today!!!

[Oceanic]

Dessas

"I plan to retire at 50, in 2014"

Sorry to be a smartass, but your profile lists your bday as Dec 1961, so that would make your retirement at 50 in 2011.

[Dani]

:Eif you have flown long haul 16 years, you're not good at counting time anymore

[Monty77]

Let's not get away from the misty-eyed dream.

I'd like to hear from the mates driving light rotary/float planes in NZ.

Is the pay so crap? And how much? Why are you accepting that?

Then why?

Big difference between an hours builder and a soon-to-retire bloke from the airlines.

I've spent a month in NZ and have to say it is the most magical place (despite holiday goggles) I've ever visited, having actually lived in Africa (Ethiopia) and South America (Colombia), and obviously known most of Europe.

[tubby linton]

Perhaps we should look at the problems with our current job.Grass and greener are words that come to mind as are repetetive night flights to Greek Islands

[Spooky 2]

Well I may have had it all without even realizing how good it was. Main duties included PIC on a corporate B757 and when not doing that, flying the owner's Twotter on amphip floats. Wound up with an ATP MES which is the rating I'm most proud of at this hour and no question about it, the most fun flying anyone could ask for. Really cannot consider myself an expert at this kind of flying as I left with only about 350 hours total in the Twotter. Yes...there is life after the airlines.

[woodywood]

well guys,

just an idea to combine both worlds, a good payjob and flying fun.
Last month I've rented a C-182 in Africa and flew around with my Mari Lou
and kids. Check it out http://www.bushpilot.co.za/

:ok:

[Metro man]

When I was flying piston twins I used to look up at the jets flying at high altitude and dream of the day I'd be doing that.

Fifteen years later on a nice day at FL350 I turn to the Captain and say "Wouldn't it be fun to be flying a C402 low level along the beach down there."

Now married with two children and the associated bills, it's not a possibility though. Prehaps when I retire a 2-3 day a week easy job will come along. :)

[beachbumflyer]

ewe.lander,
Above 41000ft.? not me, too much radiation, and in case of a rapid
decompression :=

[Bearing 123]

Fascinating Thread which I have followed with great interest:ok:

I would like to add my little bit as I am pretty much at the opposite end of the scale. I am relatively low houred compared to most of you on here (just over 1200) A while back I was desperately sending out CV's looking for that 1st jet job with no luck. I was one of those guys sitting in a Seneca below FL100 in all sorts of weather dreaming of flying something faster and higher. This to me meant either a business jet or an airliner.

One day I was introduced to a guy who owned a helicopter and he said that he was buying a light turboprop as he was fed up with airport delays and would I be interested in coming to work for him. I looked at it as a step up and accepted straight away. He then called me and invited me to dinner to discuss salary etc. I worked all sorts of scenarios of what I wanted etc and off I went. He straight away said "right, I'm not sure what figure you had in your head but the way I see it is that you will be responsible for mine and my families safety. You are the only pilot hence you should be on a captains salary. At this point I was just nodding like an idiot with possibly a dribble of saliva coming out of the corner of my mouth. To cut a long story short, I now work for this guy full time. I fly maybe 3 days a week, no sector is over 2.5 hrs I get treated like a friend and a member of the family to the point where if the other half wants to come for the weekend to the yacht in Cannes she can and to top all that off I get a salary and benefits which rivals a senior Captain at most airlines. I can hand fly or let the automatics take the load, I can fly at 2000ft or FL300 the choice is mine.

Now. My point is. There are too many people out there that think a career in aviation has to be in heavy metal or something that flys at warp speed.(Although I do realise that a lot of the time that is where the high salaries are) Flying is flying and although I know I was very lucky to end up as I am, there are more enjoyable careers out there where the lifestyle of you, Mary Lou and the kids doesn't have to change. I got an invitation from a bizjet operator last month to go and fly a hawker, which was what I thought my dream was. In fact I was considering other ratings up until a short time ago, but I turned it down as I realised I'm already living the dream.

Please don't think that I'm boasting or knocking any other kind of career choice in aviation. Its just that there is life outside the airlines and the other AOC operators and you don't have to travel to the other side of the world to find it. Granted the people like my boss are few and far between, but they are out there and can be found. Remember what it was like when we were all trying to find that first job flying? Its no harder.

Just to finish, life is way too short to be spending time doing something that is not all that appealing and I for one do not want to be the richest man in the graveyard.

Good Luck to all:ok:

[Mister Geezer]

I do a bit of instruction on some of my days off. Would recommend it to anyone who wants to occasionally get away from the world of airline flying. I consider that I get the best of both worlds really since I still have my airline job that pays the bills but I get to tinker when I want to with light aircraft in my time off!!!

[youngskywalker]

Mister Geezer, wouldnt it be brilliant to have a little King Air to tinker with? Bugger, we did once didnt we?! I blame you entirely for my demise, you sir are a 'Jonah!' :E

[Stationair8]

Bearing 123, sounds like a pretty good job.

The boss sounds like a man that values you for your experience and pays you to do the right thing for him and his family.

Amazing how many wealthy people go out and buy and aircraft and then want somebody to fly them around for free!!!

[Bearing 123]

Stationair8
Thanks I am extremely lucky. I agree with you that people go out and spend millions on aircraft and then expect a pilot to work for van driver wages.
His basic principle was that I was responsible for his wife and kids and no one could put a price on that.
Cheers

[haughtney1]

Monty

Let's not get away from the misty-eyed dream.

I'd like to hear from the mates driving light rotary/float planes in NZ.

Is the pay so crap? And how much? Why are you accepting that?

Then why?

Big difference between an hours builder and a soon-to-retire bloke from the airlines.

I've spent a month in NZ and have to say it is the most magical place (despite holiday goggles) I've ever visited, having actually lived in Africa (Ethiopia) and South America (Colombia), and obviously known most of Europe.

The reasons the money is so crap are simple.
1. Its a small market
2. Its so cheap to learn to fly in NZ....there are 10 guys/girls wanting your job
3. People use these jobs as a stepping stone.

Why do you think there are sooo many of us Kiwi's and Ozzies in Europe?

I've done the GA thing (1300hrs of it) in C172's/182's/206's/210's as well as Cheiftains and a Bandit..IMHO the bad outweighed the good.
Flying my employers 767 is my job, when I fly for fun..I go and mess around in a mates Supercub.