JAA or FAA, dilemma

[Leeds1972]

:confused:Right here goes, studying for PPL ground exams a moment and plan was to go out to states later in yr to complete flying hours, hour building. Just been to flyer exhibition and found out to do my hour building that i really need a FAA licence, as planning to fly with passengers.
So do i take my FAA licence and do my hour building in states? If so whats costs of converting? or do I complete my PPL in states and convert to Faa? (i so whats the pitfalls?)
The main problem is money and thus goin to find it very difficult to hour build in UK.
Help a big spanner has been put in my works!!:ugh:

[alanmtc]

Where do you intend to work when qualified?

USA or Europe? Are you going for a fATPL?

[Leeds1972]

plan was to hour build in US then back to uk and study for ATPL, with view to work in Europe

[alanmtc]

do a FAA PPL - its-s quicker in the respect that when you sit your "check ride" - when you pass, you get your licence there and then. If you get a JAA PPL, you have to wait up to 60 days for the licence to be issued.

So if your looking to do hour building on the cheap, get a FAA PPL, then hour build in USA.

When you go onto to your JAA APLT, CPL, IR etc, it wont matter that you have a FAA PPL.

Does that help?

[Leeds1972]

so i wouldn't need to convert to a JAA? Whats a average price to convert to JAA? If i did JAA in states then went back later on holiday, whats needed to convert to FAA?
Sorry for all questions, greatly appreciate your time

[alanmtc]

as far as PPL is concerned - no you would not need to convert to JAA to start your JAA ATPL or CPL.

Converting costs - can't help you here sorry.

If you do JAA PPL but still want to hour build in states I THINK you can without any paperwork etc. The only thing I can think of is that you MIGHT need to fill in a "Authenticity of a Foreign License" form and send it to the FAA. It's free. That is what I had to do - I had a New Zealand ICAO PPL, I filled out the form, sent it to the FAA, and they pretty much give you a free conversion in a way - just for filling in a piece of paper. (This process takes up to 90 days though)

If all you want to do is PPL then hour build prior to ATPL, I strongly suggest doing FAA PPL and straight into hour building all in the states. That will be the quickest and cheapest route. Get it all done in 1 trip mate.

I am doing some hour building at Orlando Flight Training in July and August this year before starting my JAA APLT in October. OFT do good bulk rates.

[Leeds1972]

Sorry meant to add that after PPL plan to go on to mcc, IR, and multi engine etc in uk

[alanmtc]

ye that is all fine, try this...

FAA PPL
Hour Build (Though you dont need to until before your CPL)
JAA ATPL's
Multi Engine
JAA CPL
JAA IR (multi recommended)
MCC

[alanmtc]

ye that is all fine, try it this...

FAA PPL
Hour Build (Though you dont need to until before your CPL)
JAA ATPL's
Multi Engine
JAA CPL
JAA IR (multi recommended)
MCC
TYPE Rating (if £££ allows!!!)

If you are doing it all modular, I suggest doing the FAA PPL, Hour Building, Multi Engine and JAA CPL in the states. Much cheaper in the states.

Come back to the UK for JAA IR - I wouldn't waste any time with FAA IR, then the hassle of trying to convert it.

[opatricio1001]

Hello sorry to bust in but my dilema is about the same. I want to mix USA hour building with UK ground studies, but after readind what alanmtc has posted I will have to reconsider my choice of path to follow. Alanmtc how much would this set us/me back?

[alanmtc]

what were your original plans?

what is it exactly you want to know sorry?

[opatricio1001]

What meant to asck is the price of the laid out plan that you have posted above. Roughly how much would it set me back? I want to find out from now the prices for the training that i need to acheive an airline career or there abouts. U know what i mean. :ok:

[Duchess_Driver]

Converting an FAA to JAA PPL if you have more than 100hrs time isn't a big deal. LST with an examiner, UK Air Law, HPL and RT if you want to add a professional licence.

FAA IR to JAA IR isn't too much of a big deal either. 15 hours conversion rather than 55 for issue? Flying an ILS is no different over there but you may have difficulty in finding an NDB to practice NPA's with.

However, be very aware that things are different on each side of the pond. Two very different styles, environments and attitudes, not to mention prices.

[alanmtc]

FAA PPL (in usa)
Hour Building (in usa)
JAA ATPL's
JAA CPL (in usa)
Multi Engine (in usa)
JAA IR (in uk)
MCC (in uk)

Around £38,000

for working in europe, i believe it is better to have a first time JAA IR without conversion simply due to P1 and P2 hours etc.

Also vital that you get a twin IR, most FAA IR in USA are SE

[opatricio1001]

Man I was hopping about £15,000. what can i get with this? Sorry to go on like this but this process of elimination is the vital one in this step to the aviation world.

Tnx Guy's

OP.:bored:

[alanmtc]

£15,000.......

Well I suppose you could get a PPL, do ATPL distant learning which is slightly cheaper, Hour Building, CPL Multi.

There is no doubt the JAA IR is the Killer! and dont forget every employer asks for MCC now too which is approx £2500!

For £15,000 its going to be REALLY hard mate!!

PLUS all the extra costs...
CPL test fee paid direct to CAA £714 a shot!
ATPL exams @ £62 each = £868
Fuel Surcharges
TransAtlantic flights
The list goes on.......

The cheapest JAA Zero-fATPL is prob about $38,000 (£20,000)
and that does not include your JAA IR conversion! or this extras above!


I would love for someone to prove me wrong!

£15,000 to get a fATPL - I DOUBT IT!!!

[opatricio1001]

The distance learning fATPL, could I do it over here in the uk? The PPL and CPL cost is about £7875 @ OFT in the USA, hour building?:ok:

The CPL fee paid directly to the CAA £714 a shot, is this for each check ride? What do you reckon?:bored:

Another vital question is what are the Airlines looking for in a applicant for the fist time as a FO?

I think it can be done for about £20,000:) or less on the modular root!!!

OP.

[alanmtc]

FAA PPL £4000
PPL Fuel Surchage approx £400
FAA Examiner Fee £220

ATPL Distant Learning £2000
ATPL Exams £868

Hour Building 100 PIC £5500
Fuel Surcharge approx £550

JAA CPL/ME £4500
Fuel Surcharge approx £450
CPL CAA Test Fee £712
CPL Test Aircraft Rental £200

9 month USA Accommodation approx £3000

JAA Multi IR £10,5000
UK Accomodation approx £1000
MCC £2000 at best!

TSA / SEVIS / M1 Visa stuff approx £300

Return Flights to USA £600

TOTAL £36,800


I HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOU EXPECT TO DO IT FOR £20,000..... BUT LET ME KNOW IF YOU DO!

[Heavy Cargo]

Gee the Europeans have made everything complicated. Where was the JAR license during daylight bombing in 1945 and the B747 test flights? The yanks seemed to get along then but now they are not upto scratch ? :E

[ford cortina]

Two small details, both are very very very important.

1. Get a 1st Class Medical from the CAA at Gatwick, before you even consider starting, just in case. Cost £317.00

2. There are lots of fATPL holders out there with minimum hours, first time passes etc, but no chance of a job, sooooo factor in either the cost of an instructor or the dreaded Type Rating and hours. Fi about £5-7K (I think) Type Rating £20K plus £10 for 500 hours.

And it goes without saying that the prices I and eveyone else have quoted are with first time passes and minimum hours. Doable but hard.
Realisticly you are looking in the £35-40K minimum, plus the FI ot Type.

Good luck

[Cessna-172-Pilot]

Not sure about the company, but check might be worth checking these out http://www.ukft.com/FAA-Commercial.htm (FAA)
http://www.ukft.com/CPL-ATPL-PrepCourse.htm (JAA)
Good luck, I'm currently doing my ATPL DL with Bristol GS - thoroughly recommend them.

[opatricio1001]

Tnx guy's for the info very helpfull.

I will let you know if I can find a cheaper root, But it all depends on how far an individual would like to take is studying.

Take it easy guys buy.

[opatricio1001]

Tnx guy's for the info very helpfull.

I will let you know if I can find a cheaper root, But it all depends on how far an individual would like to take is studying.

Take it easy guys buy.

[Blueskyrich]

Woah there lad!

I might have missed this point being raised as the thred crept off a little, but you certainly don't need an FAA licence to fly with passengers.

Well, not exactly that - you can have an FAA 'licence' issued on the back of your JAA licence. It's a fairly simple paper exercise. You download the forms off the FAA website and send them to the nearest FAA office (FSDO) to the place you'll be arriving into the US. Then, a form goes to the CAA (with some money, of course) and they validate/release your details to the FAA to confirm you're who you say you are. Eventually, the FAA send you a letter saying that you're good to go and that you need to book an appointment with the FAA office for when you arrive. Then, on arrival into the US, you go to your meeting with them, they go through a couple more things and if everything is in order, they issue you with a temporary permit (the permanent thing arrives in the post some weeks later to home).

Of course, parallel to this, you need to speak to some schools out there who will willing to rent an aircraft to you, check you out on the aircraft etc..

I did a lot of hourbuilding in the US and went through the same process. All in all, the whole experience was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. :ok: