ASIC's at Jandakot?

[FNG_WA]

Can someone clear this up for me....do we have to display an ASIC whilst airside at Jandakot? Personally I dont, however I have noticed more and more people wearing them. The dept of transport website says that YPJT is 'security controlled' however they dont go so far as to say what that means exactly....Anyone know for sure one way or the other?:\

[arnellis]

I dont think we do at Jandakot but i display mine anyway because otherwise i have a habit of leaving it places and forgetting it. I know a fair few pilots who dont display it at the company im doing my training wih.

[bentleg]

DOTARS says An ASIC is required to obtain unescorted access to the secure areas of security controlled airports that have regular public transport (RPT) services so if there is no RPT at Jandakot I guess you dont need one. Why then is it listed in ERSA :ugh:

I fly from an uncontrolled aerodrome but like arnellis I wear mine whenever I fly so I dont forget it.

[Flying Binghi]

Scam watch alert



Looks like the local ASIC processing crew are trying to drum up more business :hmm:

[P.O.M]

As I understand it, although JT is a security controlled airport an ASIC is not required as there are no scheduled RPT operations from there.

I am pretty sure there was a list on either the CASA or DOTARS websites (cant remember which) that outlined the security controlled airports in Aus and those that required ASICs to be worn airside.
There were one or two others Im sure besides JT that were the same.

As pilots need either an AVID or an ASIC I think most have gone for the ASIC as any large airport within range of JT in a 'lightie' will require you to have an ASIC; Kalgoorlie, Geraldton, Albany.

If you notice, the ground staff guys at JT dont wear an ASIC, if unsure then contact JAH, the workers that is.... not the suit's :}

[airman1]

Just had a look on CASA's website couldnt find there page which shows Airports which require an ASIC card. But had a look on the RA website and an ASIC card is required at Jandakot........


http://www.auf.asn.au/admin/asic.html#airports

[Zhaadum]

An ASIC is not required anywhere. It is a load of BS. NOONE has ever asked to see my ASIC at Broome, Perth, Jandakot, Derby or anywhere else. I doubt they ever will and if they do I will tell them to get lost.
:yuk::mad:

[bentleg]

NOONE has ever asked to see my ASIC at Broome, Perth, Jandakot, Derby or anywhere else.


I have had to show mine at Dubbo and at Canberra, to get back to airside. (A long way from Jandakot I know).

[Old Fella]

Good luck Zhaadum, but don't bellyache when you get fined for non-compliance. We all know the ASIC requirement is a load of rubbish, however, we don't own the ball! :=

[the wizard of auz]

I had the same little run in at Canarvon, That Zhaadum is aspiring to commit.
Was when they first started requiring ASIC cards.
I dropped a bloke off that broke his arm in a mustering accident.
Taxied to the gate, and shut down, climbed out of the aircraft and was confronted by the local airport guy (ex refueller).
He demanded to see my ASIC....... I told him to bugger off.
He got stroppy and told me I would recieve a fine....... I told him to fine away.
He asked my name......... I told him I wasn't legally obliged to give it to him.
He said he needed it to organize the fine process....... I again told him to bugger off.
He was looking pretty frustrated by this stage, as he had no power to arrest, detain, require information from me.
He said "I'll just get the aircraft rego" ..... I said be my guest. proves nothing. then informed him he neither knew my name, or who I was and you can't prove who was flying the aircraft at the time you saw it, so who you going to fine?.
He called me a smart ass, and I agreed. I informed him I was leaving and wished him a good day........... then left.
Until the swazi Gestapo get some powers to detain or arrest, or require you by law to answer their request for name and address, they can neither stop you from doing anything, or stop you leaving, and then the burden of evidence is on the accuser...... they have to A) prove it was actually you. B) prove you were doing whatever they say you were doing. so you can wander off on your merry way and leave them to doing whatever it is they do.
Generally, I have found the local guys to be good about this rubbish, but you get the odd one that is going to take on the world and make it a better place (in their eyes) and want to flex their authority......... which generally is none.

[topend3]

Wiz,

He didn't even have to talk to you. All he had to do was submit the online incident report form to the Office of Transport Security. They then log the incident and send correspondence to the registered owner of the aircraft. They then track repeat offenders and then they issue the fines.

Makes me laugh how hard it is for some people like you, and Zhaadum, to simply comply with a very simple requirement i.e. wear an ASIC at a security controlled airport i mean, how hard is it??? It may be bull**** but it's a law and it's not that hard to hang an ASIC round your neck...if anything you are helping out the local airport operator who need to put up with these people when they come to do an audit...

[Flying Binghi]

It may be bull****

topend3, I dunno - if you accept it, you tend to get more of it.

There is also the problem of ASIC holders familys becomeing targets.

[aileron_69]

Ive been stopped at Newman cos I wasnt wearing my ASIC. Had it in my pocket cos the silly clip thing had broken again.
Ive had a lot of trouble from the Swazi Gestapo as someone so delicately named them, with crew members access. They arent pilots, but they do sit in the plane with me when flying. Thats no prob cos then they can be classed as Passengers, but some dogooder airport security **** decided that if they were going to to plane to do some work on the computers etc in the aircraft, even if I escorted them while emblazoned with my shiney red card, it still wasnt legal because I wasnt going flying so they werent passengers! I suggested to my crew they get ASICS, but they already have, and CASA said they dont qualify for one. Makes one wonder what on earth we're supposed to do other than actually taxiing the aircraft into the carpark so they can work on it!!!!:ugh::ugh:

[Islander Jock]

You do not need an ASIC for Jandakot. Similarly you do not need one for Archerfield, Bankstown, Parafield and most parts of Moorabbin. I believe the reason they were designated security controlled without having RPT services was so they could draw on govt funding for the increased security such as fences and acess control gates. The page is somewhere on the CASA website showing the GAAP fields as being exempt. But nowhere on the Dept of Infrastructure site does it give any reference.

Wizzard, nice one mate but don't take it out on the aerodrome operator because you personally don't think you need to have or display an ASIC. The best that can be done with anyone who doesn't display and ASIC is report the matter to the Dept. Whether they want to do anything about it is up to them. Go against some of the more stringent requirements for security such as screening etc and a whole differenct range of actions are available :E

The people to write to and vent your collective spleens on this matter are located in the Office of Transport Security, Dept of Infrastructure, Transport Local Govt and Regional Development in your capital city.

Binghi, ASIC holders becoming targets - bwwaaahhhh. You've been reading too many spy novels

Topend 3 - thank you! Someone understands

[Flying Binghi]

Binghi, ASIC holders becoming targets - bwwaaahhhh. You've been reading too many spy novels


Islander Jock, LOL, you do have a way with words. Carnt attribute the concern to a novel - chap down Cooly way bought it to my attention.

I think theres an Oz TV movie coming out soon that may give me more ammo :E

Heres a link http://www.smh.com.au/news/tv--radio/underbelly-success-leads-to-terrorism-thriller-for-nine/2008/04/12/1207856908766.html



.

[topend3]

aileron 69,

the two main survey companies are good examples of companies that don't take the ASIC requirement seriously. if your PC nerds want to wander around airside at an airport like Newman, then, YES, they DO need an ASIC! Quite simply really!!!

Like Islander Jock rightly points out, don't take it out on the aerodrome operator, we are all in this together and just playing the game...

[the wizard of auz]

Topend and IJ. you may have noticed I said When they first started requiring ASIC's. I wasn't refusing to wear one, but was waiting for them to issue it to me.(yeah, like I was going to stop working because the authorities decide I'm suddenly a terrorist threat..... after fifteen years in the industrywithout a problem) Instead of requesting I wear my card as required, I was told, "Oi, put ya ASIC on mate or I'll fine ya".
I don't take it out on any airport operators, and wear my bling when required. But when I get jumped on at an airport that has had its runway lights all smashed the night before by the local kids, in a security controlled airport (they all stepped over the fence and did whatever the felt like.... because the security fence was a six strand stock fence about three feet high), I can only respond in the appropriate manner. It was fairly obvious I was a pilot..... I just landed my bloody airplane, and then escorted my injured passenger to the exit.
They can record the incident any time they like....... the burden of proof still lies with them. the operator is not responsible for the actions of the pilot, whilst he or she isn't in the aircraft. the pilot then becomes his own man.... and who is to say the person being reported for the incident is even the pilot?, or even associated with the operator of the aircraft?. and what proof would they present that the person they are accusing was even there?... nevermind commited an offence?
Just another well thought out plan........ thats full of holes..(like the security fence in Canarvon) by the guvmint.:ugh:

[Islander Jock]

Wiz,
Knowing you as I do mate - I understand your frustrations. A couple of points though:
Someone saying "Oi put your ASIC on or I'll fine ya" is being somewhat overzealous. Aerodrome operators, ramp staff etc etc have NO authority to issue fines under the act.
You're right in saying the operator is not responsible for the actions of the pilot. They are however responsible for taking measures to comply with their respective Transport Security Program and in doing so, with the Aviation Tpt Security Regs. I was spewing when, during a then DOTARS audit, I recieved a non-compliance because some prat jumped out of his Brazillia without an ASIC (apparently left it at home). I told the auditor I hoped he was going to also give a non-compliance to the originating airport where this guy departed from. Nah that would have been far too logical for that outfit. :ugh:
When reporting an incident, only the known information is given but I would suggest that if the department seriously wanted to pursue the matter, a rego would be all that was required. The owner / operator would have some very serious questions to answer if they were unable to say who was flying their aircraft at a particular time.

As I said before - Office of Transport Security - Dept of Infrastructure, Tpt, Regional Development and Local Govt are the ones who create and expect us to enforce this mess.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

The list is : HERE (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/transport/security/aviation/airports.aspx)

[Flying Binghi]

Islander Jock and others - please note, I lay the blame for the ASIC nonsence at the feet of the Howard government... the instigaters, not the implementers.

As an aside - I had arrived at Darwin late one night in my little tail dragger.. parked in the GA section, met the airport security (just pre ASIC) who gave me a lift to the main taxi rank - after a tour of the airport... nice chap :) ...I have fond memories of Darwin airport security.

[Islander Jock]

LHRT,
I recall also a list on the CASA website that specifically annotated the GAAP airports as being exempt from the ASIC requirements. THe DITRDLG site doesn't actually say so except for the fact that those airports do not issue ASICs which in itself is not does not exclude them. I've had a search and cannot find the old CASA page, maybe someone else has a link.

Binghi,
The Howard government were probably advised by the same public servants that advise the present government. You don't think for a minute Anderson, Vale etc could have come up with that mess on their own do you?

Has anyone, anywhere yet received a fine or even a letter from the dept after a reported non-compliance matter over ASICs?

[topend3]

i know a flight attendant from a major perth-based airline that i wont name was fined at Perth by APS a few years back...

[aileron_69]

the two main survey companies are good examples of companies that don't take the ASIC requirement seriously. if your PC nerds want to wander around airside at an airport like Newman, then, YES, they DO need an ASIC! Quite simply really!!!


I know what you're saying Topend3 and I have no problem with that. But 1. I dont let the boys out there by themselves, I take them out, displaying my ASIC as required, and

2. CASA have said they dont qualify for an ASIC for some screwy reason. We take the matter seriously and have tried to do the right thing, so what on earth are we supposed to do?? Not allowed to have them on the airport without an ASIC and cant get them one??
Full Kudos to Alice Springs Airport Security tho, top blokes, when I went and explained the situation they went and got temporary visitors passes for the boys and even got me a gate key. Good to see there are still some good Aussie blokes out there!!

Visitor passes are all very well when we're based on an airport for any length of time but when we're just passing through for a day or 2 it doesnt make life easy. Im just trying to get the job done and stay out of everyones way, why must it all be so hard?

[Islander Jock]

CASA have said they dont qualify for an ASIC for some screwy reasonCASA are probably the most useless body ever to have been given Issuing Authority status. I think they finally realised that themselves when they handed it all over to Aviation ID Australia.

If your crews need an ASIC and many of the survey crews I have seen had them, you should find another issuing body. All that has to be satisfied is an "operational need". As far as I'm concerned, a survey crew member has as much need for an ASIC as a baggage handler or Cabin crew.

[vfive]

There is RPT at Jandakot? CASAir operates out of there.

[YPJT]

Not RPT rather FIFO Closed charter.
CASA Search -- CASA Aircraft Operators Certification -- Casair (http://casa-query.funnelback.com/search/search.cgi?collection=casa_aoc&query=Casair)