FFDO to be fired for accidental discharge...

[weasil]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/17/pilot.gun/index.html

[pakeha-boy]

Weasil.....and the first people he called was ALPA....their lawyers and their help....DO YOU THINK "USAPA" HAVE THOSE RESOURSES".... no!!!!this whole thing is a joke

They have a Captain that assulted one of our gate agents,,,,,he also called ALPA for representation....does USAPA have these resourses.... NO!!!.....am I painting a picture here????

I have many issues,with ALPA.....but for christ sake,..these clowns (USAPA) ARE WAY IN OVER THERE HEADS

[Rotorhead1026]

I wouldn't be surprised that he called ALPA, since he was an ALPA volunteer for some years. Professional standards. Happens to be a really nice man. I doubt the firing will survive legal scrutiny, whether it be USAPA or ALPA opposing it. Time, and not vitriol, will tell.

[pakeha-boy]

vitriol has nothing to do with it!!...the fact is ALPA have the resources...USAPA DOES NOT!!!...and I,m sure he,s a good bloke,no reason to be fired.....never the less....the fact still remains that his livelihood is better in the hands of ALPA than usapa ...by a long shot

[Rotorhead1026]

vitriol has nothing to do with it!!...



<Sigh> ... right.

Like I say, time - not vitriol - will tell.

[SNS3Guppy]

Who cares? He shot a hole through the side of the airplane. Resources or not, failure to follow procedure as a FFDO resulted in a dangerous situation. I can think of a lot of good reasons to get fired, and discharging a firearm in the cockpit ranks right up there near the top.

This isn't a union issue...this is an issue of a foolish act of failing to follow procedure, and placing the entire FFDO program at risk. This isn't a this-union-or-that question. It's a safety of flight issue involving an act of neglect by a qualified crewmember.

Try to keep your head in the same universe.

[Rotorhead1026]

Geez I wish people would calm down. You'd think a shot had been fired.

Now I've been away from the program for awhile, but it seems he may well have been following procedures (although there may be some sterile cockpit issues). If the picture I saw of the trigger lock now beiing used is accurate, then we probably haven't seen the last discharge.

Flimsy Airbus. If it'd been a 727 the bullet would have ricocheted all around the airplane until it hit somebody. (Just joking, just joking!).

[weasil]

Actually the guy was not following SOP. I can't get into specifics on here. Suffice it to say that he deserves everything that is coming to him - locking holster issues aside.

[Bus Junkie]

The first day that holster was demoed to an FFDO training class the gun fired accidently.

[Bus Junkie]

Puke boy: and the first people he called was ALPA..

of course, alpa was on the property. Who was he going to call APA?

[RRAAMJET]

"The first day that holster was demoed to an FFDO training class the gun fired accidently."

Yeah...and why the hell was that gun loaded?? When I was military, we always did gun drills with unloaded weapons, for just this reason. Rounds are for the range, not the classroom. Especially in Artesia, middle-of-nowhere, threatwise. Shows some of the crass stupidity that is putting this program at risk, from some of the more over-enthusiastic gun coveters. Playing around with one at 8000ft on the approach is asking for trouble. And sure enough, someone found it....

[weasil]

The first day that holster was demoed to an FFDO training class the gun fired accidently.

The classes are held at FLETC - there is absolutely no way somebody would have had a loaded firearm when showing the holster to an FFDO class. They don't allow people to walk around with ammunition anywhere on the base, and certainly not in a classroom.

Whoever told you that was lying to you or misinformed.

[Rotorhead1026]

Agreed. However, a couple of the instructors referred to a video of an officer lecturing a group of youngsters on "guns". He literally shot himself in the foot! This might be the source of the "legend".

And here's the video ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZlcbJwfP4

[pakeha-boy]

Bus Junkie......just like weasil says...your lying and misinformed....try and keep up with the plot here will you

Alpa "was " on the property,and he called them,rightly so.....my point was,these are the same people voting to oust ALPA,yet they want their services and protections.....doubled edged sword....and look at the state his current "barganing agent" is in....USAPA:{

.....IF YOUR AT LEAST HONEST WITH YOURSELF:oh: you know this is going nowhere but down hill.....I dont argue that he should have been fired.....but everyone has the right to legal representation......right now he has nothing unless he pursues this privately....which will cost him dearly ....

[exeng]

I've just read this thread where you discuss 'seriously' the rights and wrongs of a pilot who fires a bullet through the aircraft. And you are worried about terrorists and 'homeland security'.

Best of luck to you all, I won't be visiting your shores again until some degree of common sense abounds - reckon I'll be pushing up the daisies well before that happens.

You can carry guns on the flight deck if it puts a smile on on your face, but it won't unfortunately stop acts of terrorism in the good old USA - only a change in foreign policy will do that, or might do that. Trouble is that even when that good old boy Bush goes away you know the replacement (of whatever colour) is not going to change policy that much. To hell in a handcart is one way of putting it.

Regards
Exeng

[Ignition Override]

For those with short memories (as clear as 300 RVR), a guy - who probably had a bad childhood - set off a powerful bomb in the bottom of the World Trade Center.

This was in 1994 and I don't remember whether Clinton or Bush Senior was president.

And 9/11 happened just after eight years with Clinton in the White House.

These terrorists make the decisions to kill people, as in Munich, Paris, Vienna, Rome, Beirut, London... or are the terrorists not responsible for their actions?
I suppose not.

I recently saw a car bumper sticker which said "The rest of the world does not like us, so let's do something different..." Or words to that effect.
It is nice to see local citizens who stand for something (-nothing-).

[Rotorhead1026]

Best of luck to you all, I won't be visiting your shores again until some degree of common sense abounds - reckon I'll be pushing up the daisies well before that happens.


Guess we'll just have to get along without ya', dude. No matter - I'm sure there's a branch of the Trinity United C o C you can attend in the UK. Take care, buddy ...

[TangoUniform]

Hey exeng,
Let's see, on your shores...7/7, Richard Reid, Glasgow, the largest Mosque in Europe being planned, do we need to go on. What has your wonderful foreign policy done to alleviate terrorism on all hail Britannia? Oh let's not forget a year or two of the IRA? Oh and BTW, who was responsible for the mess in the M.E. in the first place with the drawing up of bogus borders in the early 20th century? Oh I forget, that this was all just started in 2000 when Bush took over. Please forgive me your royal highas#.

Oh and also I read a report in The Times this morning about a fatal stabbing on a London tube. Seems like some poor bloke tried to stop a parolee from throwing chips at his girlfriend. Guy takes offense and stabs the guy through the heart several times. Sorry, I lost my head, that was Bush's fault, too.

You bet the US has crime issues and problems, but get off your high and mighty little British pony....things aren't all just "fish and chips" on your side of the pond either.

[ironbutt57]

Exeng...stay home! we do have a thing about guns...good for you weaklings a few decades ago as well...sprecken sie deutsch?

[SNS3Guppy]

The fearsome words of the British police officer in hot pursuit of a suspect..."Halt, or I'll yell 'Halt' again!"

I've just read this thread where you discuss 'seriously' the rights and wrongs of a pilot who fires a bullet through the aircraft. And you are worried about terrorists and 'homeland security'.


That made no sense.

The FFDO program exists for one purpose only, and that's final defense of the cockpit in the event of a cockpit breach.

It's happened before (you might recall 09/11...it was in the papers...). Good reason exists for arming pilots.

You find humor in discussing an incident in which a pilot failed to follow protocol and created an unsafe condition, thereby jeopardizing a good and valueable program? You find irony with this in comparison to homeland security? The FFDO program is part of homeland security. The pilot in this case would not have had a negligent discharge if he had followed procedure. Firearms do not discharge themselves.

This is an isolated incident. It is not reflective upon the purpose nor safety of the program. The pilot who failed to follow procedure has been fired.

Others can try to drag union issues and all manner of non-sequitor, ridiculous arguements into the picture...but the bottom line is the pilot screwed up, the pilot lost his job. It really doesn't matter what kind of legal support he might get or ought to get...he ought to lose his job for firing a handgun in the cockpit, period. And he has lost his job. End of story.

[Bus Junkie]

I did not say a bullet was discharged. I did say the gun fired. Can the mechanism work with out a bullet in the chamber?
As I completely appose this moronic Charlton Hestonism that is now rampant, I wouldn't know. But this is what I have heard from one of you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bus Junkie
The first day that holster was demoed to an FFDO training class the gun fired accidently.
The classes are held at FLETC - there is absolutely no way somebody would have had a loaded firearm when showing the holster to an FFDO class. They don't allow people to walk around with ammunition anywhere on the base, and certainly not in a classroom.

Whoever told you that was lying to you or misinformed.
__________________
Weasil