YMMB wait times

[McFlyte]

Howdy folks,

I'm looking at commencing a CPL at Moorabbin shortly. I've visited all the schools and am about to get a medical.

Anyway, one of the instructors I spoke to mentioned YMMB is REALLY busy right now, and they spend a lot of time waiting on the ground with the engines running.

This will obviously affect costs. Are there any YMMB pilots out there who can confirm this? Are there better times of day to fly with minimal traffic?

If this is a material cost then perhaps I'll go elsewhere.

[RogerRamjet01]

Yep, its true, moorabbin is pretty busy right now. Who knows whether it is a temporary thing - just seems to be mainly the last two or three weeks that things have become really busy.

It mainly seems to affect circuit traffic - tower has been putting requirement on the ATIS to get start clearance if you want to do circuits for the last couple of weeks (due to circuit congestion, I suppose).

I would say, however, that it shouldnt make too much difference to you if you are flexible in your training. OF course, if you want to go do circuits in the middle of the day at the same time as everyone else, then yes, you will experience delays. But I have been getting circuits in before 9:30 - 10 am or after 3:30 pm or so without much problem.

[Mark1234]

OK, I haven't noticed the start thing on the ATIS (and I do listen!) Been flying out of YMMB for the last 6 months (weekends only). Granted it's busy, but particularly with 2 runways in operation, I've only had 2 waits, and in each case, couple of aircraft. I'm not doing circuits however.

[jetstar1]

Hey all,

There have been quite a few delays lately due circuit traffic. In another couple of weeks (hopefully) all the new students will be moving on to Navs so that should ease the congestion. Main busy days are Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

j:ok:1

[Dropt McGutz]

Go to a country field like Tyabb or Lilydale. In to the air with no delays, cheaper rates and get more done in your lesson as you're in the training area straight away.

[Capt Wally]

'dropt' as much as I would have said noway some years ago I agree now, go to a country strip & get max value for yr buck. I feel that learning from a towred airport straight up is better it's more about value for money these days.



CW

[havick]

Capt Wally, check your PM's.

Cheers.

[vee1-rotate]

Flew over Point Cook Sunday gone, and it was remarkably busier than I remember...but in saying that, Essendon has dropped off a huge amount...obviously the $50 fees to land etc are too much for some people, who are moving to other fields...

[Capt Wally]

yr right there "V" EN is way too expensive now for pvt ops of any nature. It is a fantastic place in which to learn ATC are a bunch of terrific helpful guys/gals but that comes at too much of a cost sadly.

'havick' I've replied tnxs



CW

[Sunfish]

If you check your ATIS and get your start clearance as required, there is no need for you to wait with engine running.

One thing I implore instructors to do is to get their students to do tighter circuits as quick as they can learn.

[Walrus 7]

Sunfish,

Are we still talking about MB? Start clearances haven't been required there for years, unless you're departing into CTA ABV 2000. Nowadays they're not even interested if you've copied the ATIS on departure.

V,

What was EN circuit training is now done at Point Cook, which explains the transfer in activity from one to the other. I doubt that many aircraft owners have actually transferred their aircraft to YMPC as the terms of usage don't allow it yet. If I'm wrong on that, you are welcome to beat me with a rubber chicken.

True, the EN charges are horribly prohibitive and I'm already baulking at the idea of flying in for a tower tour. However, I think the down turn would still be happening regardless of the charges. Clearly, the new fees have been designed to speed the move of private ops away from EN.

Walrus

[Sunfish]

Yup Wally, it's been like that for the last two weeks - the circuits are both full a lot of the day with beginners so you are required to get permission to start if you want the circuit/touch and go. It's not required for an ordinary departure.

It's a measure to allow Mr. Sparrow and the tower people to maintain their sanity, one is hearing the occasional "Which Cessna are you? Waggle your wings." and there was a reference on 135.70 to some "pilot wandering around without a map".

Let's just hope that these guys learn faster than I did, and that the big sky principle holds while they do.

[Walrus 7]

Sunfish,

As there has been a decline in the number of flying schools at MB, we can only expect that the increase in traffic is due to the expansion of the bigger mobs like GFS? I find it hard to believe that there's been a general upturn in private flying, but there might be more activity from QF cadets and the like?

I'm taking a Victa in there tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see what's going down.

Walrus

[training wheels]

I'm taking a Victa in there tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see what's going down.

I didn't think MB had any grass strips these days? LOL! :O

.. sorry, couldn't resist..

[Shadowfromthesky]

GFS have taken a much larger intake this year and it is the time of year where most of them are undertaking their circuit training. That is proably one of the main reasons why the circuits are so congested, but lets hope this dies down in the next few weeks. I can't see this having an impact on training costs.



One thing I implore instructors to do is to get their students to do tighter circuits as quick as they can learn.


Sunfish i couldn't agree more.

[KeepItRolling]

I understand that MB tower set a record for movements on Wednesday ((16/4) that has lasted for many a moon!

From the tower perspective, EN still has its' moments.

[helopat]

Are we still talking about MB? Start clearances haven't been required there for years, unless you're departing into CTA ABV 2000. Nowadays they're not even interested if you've copied the ATIS on departure.

Walrus,

Was down operating out of MB today (Friday) and start clearances for circuit aircraft were required on ATIS (from the time I arrived at about 0930 till I left late in the afternoon).

HP

[QF2]

Hey KeepItRolling, do you know how many movements there were on Wednesday?

[ausflying]

One thing I implore instructors to do is to get their students to do tighter circuits as quick as they can learn.

GFS instructors take note :=

[mingalababya]

Good to see that MB is a live again. Is the increase in activity due to more locals taking up flying or more international students coming to Oz to learn to fly?

[2b2]

We're always being told to ignore other planes and fly our own circuit

yeah, that should work!!
:ugh:

[Awol57]

Pfft we always have Start clearance required for circuits on the ATIS over here ;)

Whatever you do, don't ignore the other aircraft. You still have to follow them if you are sequenced that way, however you don't have to fly out as wide as them. You can slow down or even request to make number one to them.

It makes it exciting in the tower if you just cut them off somewhere because they were too wide, especially when there is 10 in the circuit.

[ausflying]

I fly with GFS - only thing I notice is my instructors get really pissed off at other flying school planes who do wide circuits. We're always being told to ignore other planes and fly our own circuit.

:ugh: you must fly with a different GFS then :rolleyes:.

Whatever you do, don't ignore the other aircraft. You still have to follow them if you are sequenced that way, however you don't have to fly out as wide as them. You can slow down or even request to make number one to them.

Exactly! :ok:

[ALLICEDUP]

ausflying

Get a grip of it, I was an instructor at GFS in the past and they teach exactly what your second quote is saying.

Where does the attitude come from?? Yours instructors, co-workers, managers, CFI???

Don't you love PPRUNE, everyone is a hero behind their Login name, most probably 200TT heroes who think they know everything! Think outside the square and maybe you can learn from others and hopefully they can learn from you.

[soseg]

sorry my bad lol thats what i meant, thanks for correcting me

dont ignore them... just dont go out as wide as someone in front of u if they do it

soz :D

[nibbio86]

I finished my CPL at YMMB a couple of months ago. Yes, it was busy and sometimes I had to wait one or two planes in final before being cleared to T/O, but it wasn't THAT bad. However, I would suggest to go somewhere else with cheaper hire rates, no delays and NO LANDING FEES (not Essendon of course!).

[ausflying]

ausflying

Get a grip of it, I was an instructor at GFS in the past and they teach exactly what your second quote is saying.

Where does the attitude come from?? Yours instructors, co-workers, managers, CFI???

Don't you love PPRUNE, everyone is a hero behind their Login name, most probably 200TT heroes who think they know everything! Think outside the square and maybe you can learn from others and hopefully they can learn from you.


Allicedup, Ease up tiger. This is simply my observation. I'm out there almost everyday... maybe i'm just imagining what i see.

[fulmar]

Moorabbin movements.

About 2,100 on the 16th. 23,000 1st to 16th. Probably 40,000 plus for the month- which would be an all time record. 34,000 in March by the way. Both circuits in operation every day. By comparison Moorabbin does every three days what Essendon does every month. Different market though.

Check out the Airservices Australia website for the ‘official” data but don’t put too much store by it. Last year we kept on getting 100 plus monthly movements of aircraft over 7 tonnes, which I think I would have noticed somehow. Turned out that the RVAC Sportstars were registered with ex-Ansett B737 rego’s and Airservices did not notice.

The vast majority of movements are commercial flying training, both fixed wing and rotary. A large proportion is commercial airline sponsored training but there is an increasing percentage, especially rotary, of Australian self-starters.

The level of noise complaints has risen but not by that much. We field around 5-8 a week and Airservices a similar number. Considering you all fly over a population of 400,000 plus in the immediate area that’s not a bad ratio. In the past week complaints have risen largely because 13 has been in constant use due to crane construction work infringing the 17 OLS outside of the airport. That’s over by Tuesday.

And if any of you are at Moorabbin Sunday morning 10am-12 noon come over to the RVAC and see 30 plus youngsters being introduced to aviation- happens every month and the Young Eagles programme is a great initiative for our local population. Show them your aircraft and have a chat with them - your enthusiasm for aviation will for sure rub off on them.

Phil (fulmar)

[airtags]

Good post Phil - and keep giving the Young Eagles a big push - it's a great program and does work at giving young people a good start. (worked for my eldest who did his 'Eagles flight in VH JTU a few years back)

[DH 200']

Flew into YMMB today for my third Nav Exercise and was blown away by the amount of traffic!:eek: 5 aircraft on Base for the same RWY let alone the other traffic in the circuit area. We don't see that very often in YMAY:ok:

Who are theses guys who fly formations in the circuit?? Amazing.

Overall it was a top day especially along the coastal route towards the CBD for YMEN. You will have to put up with one more aircraft operating in YMMB 'coz I'll definitely be back you lucky sods!:ok:

Regards,
DH 200'

[Mark1234]

The RVAC have a bunch of folks who fly around in formation in warriors, guess it would be them; we also had the young eagles day today (take kids flying, foster an interest in the whole thing), so I suspect it may have been them, and tied up with that.. Also had some interesting things on the tarmac (a stearman and a T28)

Bit murky today I thought - or did it clear up later? Running up the coast / lapping the bay is rather nice, and there's a couple of top spots for lunch on the way round too...

Had myself a pleasant early session in the alpha - not a bad day all round :)

[dantanna]

>
> Running up the coast / lapping the bay is rather nice, and there's a couple of top spots for lunch on the way round too...
>

haven't been to MB for a year or two - any new lunch spots i haven't heard of?

tooradin
http://www.lighthouseoliveoil.com.au/?p=airstrip
barwon

[McFlyte]

Thanks folks for all the replies. Having the medical tomorrow, so we'll see what happens after that.

Given I live in the east, whereabouts are the other Melbourne airstrips? Lilydale, Coldstream, Tooradin... Any others?

[Walrus 7]

McFlyte,

The only other one you could consider is Tyabb. I presume you are going GA? If that is the case, forget Tooradin; they closed the GA school for lack of several things a couple of years back. The RAA school is going OK, though.

As noted in a previous post, I did manage to get into MB on Saturday, but the viz was so bad due smoke (9 kms on the ATIS, but that was optimistic) that the traffic was well down everywhere. Not really representative, I gather, of the current levels.

Walrus

[McFlyte]

Thanks Walrus,

Yeah, it will be GA. Found the Tooradin site after posting the last entry and found they'd shut down the GA training.

Coldstream looks to be RVAC only. Will check out Tyabb but will probably end up in Moorabbin or Lilydale out of convenience.

Medical was fine, now I have to see the Opthamologist (sp?). Then I'll submit for an ASIC/AVID... Lots of cash before getting in the air!