Rex Cadet School Woes

[nomorecatering]

One of the partners of the Rex cadet school at Mangalore (the airport owner) dropped a bombshell last Friday night when he anounced to the cadets that he was pulling out. The cadets were left to tell their management the news.

Left them high and dry. So the canteen is closed, no food provided for the cadets so meals (3 x daily) are brought up by cars from Seymour. But he still slugging them $375 per week (each)for a share accomodation in the barns, 8 students per barn. Nice little earner. Now no taxiways beig built etc etc. But he did find it prudent to name a street on the airport after himself.

Dont go for a walk in the woods, you never know what snakes you will find lurking in the shadows with their shady deals and outright blackmail. Some snakes like to give family holidays then put the hard word on them for land they own..........at 10c in the dollar. Refusal can mean a relations job in the woods suddenly doesnt exist anymore.

So we all sing "ÿou beter not go down to the woods to day..............".

[Keg]

If true then it's an early and practical introduction into the harsh realities of the aviation industry. :mad: :( Welcome to the all too real world boys and girls!

[apache]

But he still slugging them $375 per week (each)for a share accomodation in the barns, 8 students per barn.

This I find a bit hard to believe. Surely NO-ONE in their right mind would accept a deal like that. And knowing the penchant for costcutting that Rex management have, they would not agree to that rate!(esp if, as a "scholarship" they will end up paying 1/2 of it)

Sad for the cadets if true that their training, such as it is, will be interrupted.

[Capt Wally]

Is any of the long timers/old salts who know better in here surprised? I doubt it!

Who said those famous words just before he was hung?.............."such is life"

Too true 'keg'

CW

[To infinity & beyond]

16.04.08



The Civil Aviation Training Academy (CATA) is seeking Enthusiastic Flying Instructors to train Airline Cadets at its base at Mangalore Airport in Victoria.



I had a friend call the phone number a few weeks ago and he got the airport groundsmen. He left a message but didn't hear back????

[Lodown]

So now Rex has a decision to make...are they in business to be an airline or a flight school? They're not doing well trying to do both.

And the cadets have a big decision to make too...

[airman1]

The cadets should pack there bags and leave!!! REX management are the ones who have breached there so called flimsily training contract!!! The bottom line here is REX cant provide training for these future pilots and if they can it wont see them all with base CPLS by the end of the year!!!!:ugh:

The only decsion the cadets have to make is do i leave tomorrow morning or now................

[ABX]

...that after looking into their 'cadetship' I decided to give it a big miss!

I think that any cadet who withdraws at this stage has a strong case for getting their $5K bond back.

I feel so sad when I consider Rex now. Due to my age I could easily settle down and fly my whole career with them, but at the moment - after reading posts from Krusty and Capt. Wal - I'm not even sure if they will be around to accept my application when I graduate!:{:yuk::mad::ugh:

I think I used enough emoticons there!

[G Cantstandya]

OK.....

Here's my take on it all.....

LKH just gathered a whole lot of REX shares for a somewhat reduced price....$1.00( probably what there worth, but a whole cheaper than they used to be)

I thought, when I used to work there, that he was a smart business man....

Obviously not, he has believed the retoric from CH (the CP) that the cadets will save the airline.....

(Comment Deleted) You can't say that in here!!! :mad: Tail Wheel

In 12 months time their will be no REX or a very small version of due to a pack of shortsighted men who rather than moving with the times and paying pilots what their worth, were more interested in the bonus's....

If I were a cadet now, I would get out and save your hard earned, these dickheads could not run water in a bath.....!@!@!!

[Capt Wally]

"ABX' I feel somewhat saddened for you & others who had grand ideas for a future with REX. The harsh realities of it all are obvious. The once great Co. Kendell (check spelling as the spelling police will be here for sure) has now thru the new Co. degenerated into a total disaster just waiting to completly end with few respecting their ways.
It's a new world as far as aviation training & careers go, tread carefully to all those that go after us that did it the hard way but the best way.

CW

[Ultralights]

its a shame, i could quite happily spend the rest of my flying career with REX in the Saab. i have no real aspiration to fly the bigger systems machines, though the thought of working for REX and the management just wont let me do it.

[aerocom]

ABX

It seems that in your past replys to rex posts you support virgin comming to town and go on about Rex being not that great, best you dont apply for a job as you would most likley not enjoy it. The company does have issues but the majority of the people enjoy the flying. From your profile and website you most likely dont have to worry about joining rex any more.

[Capt Wally]

'OS' VERY wise advice:ok:



CW

[KRUSTY 34]

OK. So one of the partners at Mangalore has dropped out. Do we know any more? C'mon REX management. How about a press release and put an end to the speculation. But more urgently, put an end to the agony of the impressionable young people who swallowed your collective bullsh!t!

shooter, where are you? Care to comment.

[Flyingblind]

Meanwhile the tumbleweeds are 'a' rolling.........says it all really.

[ABX]

G'day aerocom,

How about you go and play on the freeway or take a long walk on a short pier.

...you support virgin coming to town and go on about Rex being not that great...

I do support DJ coming to Albury, it might just turn out to be a good thing for the local community. Most of us grown ups would see that limited criticism of Rex does not mean that my opinion is along the lines of "Rex being not that great". Try to keep up please mate.

I have dreamt of flying for Rex for years, only a lack of fun tickets has prevented me from doing it earlier. It would be nice if a 38 year old like me could work for a company like Rex for 20 years or so, however the company - much like yourself - is not making many friends at the moment.

[ltagroup]

hmmmmmm....... I guess this all means that I may be waiting a while to hear a response in regards to my application for the Cadetship doesn't it.
I too would like to know exactly where this issue actually leaves the program.

[captainstoobing]

I work for a large emergency service and yes, management are crap, but the saving grace is the staff at the front who roll their sleeves up day in day out and do the work they love. They leave the politics and rubbish because its not worth it.
Sadly the aviation industry is NOT alone, nor is it unique. Interestingly the other common trait is a group of whining, bitter and twisted individuals who seem intent on spreading their poor attitudes to people new to the industry or trying to start. Let people make up their own minds. Stop treating this forum like a school yard.
Yes they have a range of issues and yes the flying school has taken some time and has teething problems. Big deal, the catering has gone...thats why you sub contract another company.
What you disgruntled, dare-say envious people need to realise that unlike you, we have no other option to fulfil our dream to fly than to join such a program. I could not give a rats arse how or who feeds me - bring on the flying. You have had your chance and are in the industry. Leave us to have our chance.
Hearing you say such negative things makes me more determined to continue to aim for a start. Sadly somewhere along the way, the reason you guys started in the industry has been lost. If its that bad - leave. You are either past your prime or have been rejected so often you are twisted.

As with my current employer, people like you and your attitude all begin to sound the same. You don't offer any real solutions nor do you get off your ass and try to actively participate in a solution.
Say what you like in reply, but I bet its yet another, childish, negative , management bashing comment. Something alpha male that requires the approval of fellow neanderthals who are just as bitter. Get some original material. :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday "Gavin".

Your passion is admirable, but I'm afraid you have missed the point. The very fact that many on this forum have been in the industry for many years is exactly why the opinions they offer should be listened to.

I'll give you another scenerio. Once upon a time passionate young people strived for the coveted position of pilot, be it airline or otherwise. Finally, after years of hard work and sacrifice, they achieve their goal. Still ambitious and craving further personal developement, they sieze the opportunity to move into Check and Training, and some then move into management. Once in the hallowed halls of power they build their empire and give a return of service quite often commensurate with the elevated remuneration they now recieve. It becomes apparent however that the very reason they started in this game, (the love of flying) has now become just a memory. The time and dedication required for this new role consumes not only their working lives, but a great deal of their private lives as well. Political and idealogical dogma now give way to the pragmatic and open mind that they once posessed. Agendas, either of their own making or driven from further above now steer the drection of the company.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the people who are charged with the day to day operation of a once great organisation can see the threads unravelling. They can see no light from the ivory tower, and their opinions on how to effectively deal with the situation have fallen on deaf ears. The great machine of superior thinking is in full flight, and sadly the only thing that will arrest it's momentum will be the sudden stop at the base of the cliff. Think it can't happen? Think the people at the top truely have a grasp of the current crisis? Just have look at recent events in the financial sector.

So I guess my dear Captain, you are not the only one with passion. some have passion for doing the best job they can, others have passion for ambition and power. At any cost! You make the point that you are new to the industry. I sincerely wish you the greatest of luck. You also make the assumption that some of us are past our prime. Well I've got news for you. To ignore the collective experience of those here, and to dismiss it as simply sour grapes, is to fall into the same catagory as those to whom you are attempting to defend.

I's not about management bashing. It's about what will save REX. If you cannot see that, then you surely do have a long way to go.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Do not / have never worked for REX, have no opinion.

Capt Stoobing,

You speak of fulfilling your dream to fly, blah blah blah, yet are critical of some on this web site, perhaps there is a different spin on this that you may not have considered:

Those that have made the sacrifice to persue aviation, have left their "other careers" many years ago and made the first step in a long journey, a step that you appear not to have taken, so i am not quite sure that you really have the right to judge.

To say the only way your dream can be realised is by a cadetship is complete tripe, this is embodied by your inability to take the first step, i would agree its perhaps the easiest path but certainly not the only path.

Lets assume you are an ambo officer, how much are you paid P/A, then compare that to an FO in a Cadetship, ouch !!!.

With your EMS job, you get paid well ?, the job is satisfying ?, and secure ? ( albeit the management go down a path you do not understand ).

Many people, who i think have made the right choice, either can not or choose not to commit themselves to being a Pilot, whether by lack of stones or a balanced assesment.

For some here, they feel they are not paid well, they love their job but see the axeman waiting in the distance and due to the axeman they do not see job security ( just my interpretation of what is being said ).

Passion without action is just hot air.

[apache]

Captain Stoobing...
If you could see an injustice being done, and you feel that some poor naiive people are being lead up the garden path, would you try and warn others to stay away from a deception? or would you just sit back and watch others get taken advantage of ?
If you knew of a conman operating in your neighbourhood, would you say something to your neighbours? or just sit quietly by?
The same is true of aviation. there is a "brotherhood" whereby, to a certain extent, people tend to look out for others - be they professionals or otherwise. If I knew of an injustice taking place either in an airline, or in a flyingschool, or in a GA company, and feel that people would be better off avoiding the place, then I would make this info known.
Many businesses trade on "word of mouth". If the word of mouth is BAD, and the company loses business, then they MUST change their ways, or go out of business. Aviation is no different.
You speak of people 'at the coalface"... what do you think that many of the posters on here are ? MANAGEMENT????? certainly not. I am in no doubt that they troll these pages, and I know for certain that they have meetings with the pilot group, but, as KRUSTY has reiterated time and again, ALL THE
CONCERNS OF THE PILOT BODY ARE FALLING ON DEAF EARS.

I would pretty much bet a penny to a pound, that IF management would listen, and terms and conditions were improved, which in turn would lead to the diminishing of the exodus, and a more certain future for those "at the coalface", then the negativity on here would cease.

Telling management that they are taking the wrong path, is a bit of CRM. I would expect that management would take this on board, and at least consider what they are being told, much as a captain WOULD listen if the F/O voiced concerns over the direction of the flight! And let us not forget that these are the people who preach CRM, as well as using "the PILOT model".

It would appear that those in the upper echelons have not heeded their own advise.... they may have:
Pooled the facts - without advice from those at the coalface
Identified the problem - not all of it though.
Looked for a solution - maybe should have looked at two or three, as advised
Operated - the cadets school!
Take Stock - ???? I don't think so. The problem has NOT gone away.

time to go back to the top!!!!

[Capt Wally]

boys boys boys, the "stooberings " of this world are simply naive & have nothing to draw on other than their eagerness which we all know can work against you thru not listening. The ones that have passed thru the doors of hard work the traditional way the best way know that it's a brave new world out there & have something to compare it with. It's just that the "stooberings" have nothing to compare it with, there in lies the difference, we DO! But if they (the "stooberings") don't want to be enlightened by our hard earned wisdom well let them find out the hard way. Wisdom is often seen as an insult to the ill-informed.
Then perhaps although I doubt it with the attitudes of the 'new breed' these days they might pass on their experiences/wisdom to the next batch of hopefuls.

CW

[Jet_A_Knight]

Captain Stoobing - the dream starts like this...
http://static.flickr.com/132/318263814_c459ade057_o.jpg

And inevitably, ends up like this..
http://www.nowandfutures.com/grins/rose_colored_glasses.jpg

Some people - even some posters on these forums - have been around long enough to know the difference.

Take heed.

[FlyingChipmunk]

Captn Wal & JetA, Golden posts!
Cracked me up till I teared, both with the humour and knowing painfully that you are unfortunately spot on.
Kapitan Stooping is feeling some pain from behind.....you guys better ease up, else he might decide to wise up, keep quiet and just do himself a favour and start listening.

JetA, were those lenses rose tinted? .....Coz the shine has worn off too quickly and 85hrs/month on $42k/yr ain't paying for too many beers at The Loft these days:oh:....oops

[Capt Wally]

"Jet A":D:D:D:D Well done

And tnxs 'FC' we can only impart our wisdom the best way we know how, 'tis up to those that pass by here with an open mind that we hope may learn.


CW

[QF2]

Getting back on to the thread sort of, I heard they just about have their AOC and that CASA were coming to have a look or something? Any truth to this? Be good for the cadets down there to finally start some flying after only doing theory for the last few months.

[QF2]

Okay, have found out cadets will commence flying training on Monday. Hopefully for the sake of the cadets and the airline, things run a bit more smoothly from now on!

[wethereyet]

Smoke and mirrors :ugh: - when are these management and political types going to be held accountable for deliberately misleading investors, and others?

If I had large amounts of money tied up in REX shares I would be wanting some answers about NOW - and it's far from just LKH's money involved.

Deliberately misleading the sharemarket with statements of December cadets being ready for SAAB training in just over 30 weeks... half thats gone and their still not flying :=. Maybe they would be flying if back BEFORE December excellent salaries were on offer for senior instructors - that would be called attracting and retaining staff :D Everyone could see this coming except REX management - what else are they hiding from?

Any investment gurus care to comment on the likely reasons for the latest announcement of a company buy back of 12 million shares, beside an attempt to artificially increase the struggling share value?

[Jay & Silent Bob]

Does anybody know if Moorabbin Flying Services are still involved in training these cadets. I heard a rumor they were no longer involved, the only information I can find on their involvement is an initial press release from rex. If they aren't involved any more, were they pushed out or did they just throw in the towel realising the problems that they were going to have.

[ABX]

wethereyet,

Often it is advantageous to senior management to buy the shares when they are cheap, knowing (if this be the case) that there is a plan to lift the share price later on. Been done before, many times.

ABX:ok:

[Pundit]

Is it true the chap who ran NASA back in the '60/'70 is behind the school?

[Chief Wiggam]

ABX

And we know what their big plan to raise the share prise is. Cadets will save the day. :rolleyes:

Not only do these clowns not know how to run a company, but they publicly show that they don’t know how to invest (well, invest to make money anyway).

Rex has gotten to the point of being riskier than some highly leveraged finance companies. Sell Sell Sell…………cut the losers.

[THE ORACLE]

Late yesterday REX announced to the market they have taken over the Mangalore flight training academy and will run it as a part of the core businesses. The press release also confirms that a second course of cadets commenced on 7th April and the first course is in the flying phase of their training!

[SIUYA]

You beat me to it Oracle..........


Company released information to ASX on 21 April 2008:

REX FULLY ACQUIRES PILOT TRAINING ACADEMY

Regional Express Holdings Limited (Rex) and Mangalore Airport Pty Ltd
announced today that Rex would take full control and ownership of the joint venture pilot training academy based at Mangalore Airport.

Rex Acting Managing Director, Mr Jim Davis said, “It was felt by the Boards of both companies that the full acquisition would be in the interests of the academy.”

The academy, which will be renamed the Australian Airline Pilot Academy, will
continue to be based at Mangalore Airport.

Mr Davis added, “The brand new facilities provided by Mangalore Airport are
of the highest standards and will provide an ideal training environment for the cadets.”

Mangalore Airport Director, Mr Bill Wilson said, “Mangalore Airport will continue to work closely with the Australian Airline Pilot Academy to ensure the complete success of the venture.”

The academy enrolled its second batch of 23 cadets on 7 April 2008, bringing the total number of cadets to 39.

The first batch of cadets are now in the flying stage of their curriculum and
are on track to graduate later this year and commence their conversion training onto Rex’s SAAB 340 aircraft. A new batch of 20 cadets is scheduled to be enrolled every 3 months.

Rex is Australia’s largest independent regional airline operating a fleet of 37Saab 340 aircraft on 1,300 flights weekly to 24 destinations from Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide. The Rex Group comprises Regional Express, air freight and charter operator Pel – Air Aviation and Dubbo based regional airline, Air Link.

Media contact: Danielle Ross - Corporate Communications 0402 438 361

[KRUSTY 34]

For the sake of the young men and women who have put their faith (and money) in this scheme, I sincerely hope this will be a turning point.

I bet though, that it is fast becoming not quite the money making exercise that was sold to the board! Do it half arsed guys and it will continue to dissapoint. Do it properly, and you might need to put your hands a little deeper into the pockets.

Something Mr Lim often finds hard to do.

[mudpig]

Isn't it a Jim Davis that created the Garfield comic.lol:O

[ACMS]

I think Captain Stoobing spent too much time on the "Love Boat"

w:mad:er

[captainstoobing]

Krusty and co... I acknowledge that my post was 'naive' and un-necessarily aggressive and I apologise. From my perspective I would have responded the same (I have been in my industry for 15 years and 'seen it all' both on the road and from management), and I would take exception to an apparent upstart also.
My intention was not to come accross as an upstart. I have made the decision to change careers and pursion my true passion. I have my PPL and the cadetship is financially the only option for me and my family of 6. I would prefer to do it the way yourself and more experienced people have, but money is just not there.:(
I guess as someone in my position I get a little worried when the dream seems to be getting pooped on before I start. It still does not dissuade me from contunuing to pester HR about an interview date for the next intake. I do know that those on the front lines are wonderful people and my wish is to one day sit beside them, be grilled, be challenged and become a better pilot. Experienced people are a companies best asset. I have trained many myself, and am smart enough to shut my mouth when I am the trainee and not the trainer.
From the sounds of it (like my work) the troops always make managment look good, but there comes a time when enough is enough, so I understand where you guys are coming from after reading EVERY post/thread.

I have a few more pieces of humble pie to eat, so I apologise again and hopefully will not have to 'assume the position' again.;)

[Lodown]

the cadetship is financially the only option for me and my family of 6. I would prefer to do it the way yourself and more experienced people have, but money is just not there.

Good luck. You and your family have a tough road to travel. If the option was there, I couldn't afford to learn to fly again these days. The funny aspect is that if I had the chance again, I don't think I'd want to do it anyway. I can only imagine what it's like with a family.

[FlyingChipmunk]

Dear Stoobs,
Its a very long road and the best thing you can have going for you is to have a very understanding spouse who also believes in your dream and goals. Your attitude is good and that will get you far.

Tha Saab is wonderful to fly and if you stay focused, it is definitely worth the journey. Krusty is a top bloke, whom like many others know that they command alot more respect from REX in terms of getting the right coin due to their experience and having to put up with low time FOs. Infact, all current Captains are now effectively Training Captains everyday they turn up for work! Unfortunately, when everyone around us is jumping from a sinking ship onto the many prettier Love Boats around, sooner or later ( more likely sooner) we'll all have to wise up and follow.

I wish you the best and if you have time to be on Pprune, I'm sure you are coping well enough.

[captainstoobing]

Well hopefully people like yourselves hang around to help out those just starting, though I understand why you wouldn't.
In my arena our attrition rate is 200 officers a year, for similar reasons...once you are qualified and wet behind the ears yourself you are given a day 1 probationer. Not fair and I certainly understand the frustration of never working with anyone 'at your level or higher'. You never learn, and lets face it - its hard work. You are doing the job of 2 people for a while!!

I hope by the time I get my turn (which I will) there are people with experience left, rather than having 'babies training babies' so to speak.

[mention1]

Lodown is right. I don't think I could afford to learn to fly again. Lets just look at DAY ONE.
First of all you have to by an ASIC - $196
Then you have to buy Student Pilots licence (never had to before) $50.
Also an Aviation ID thingo $181.
Then you have to show someone you can talk English

All these extra fees before you can even go air-side. Before the instructor has finished explaining all this the potential student would be out the door.

[McFlyte]

You forgot the medical! Just coughed up $230 for one, and now I have to see an eye doctor as well... not sure how much that will set me back.

[Capt Wally]

.....welcome to the world of the rich & famous, where pilots abound in fast red cars, own multiple properties, have many ex wives (that part is true!) & the general public all believe that pilots are God like (another part that;s true:E) & are therefore paid as such..................like I said, welcome to the rich & famous......NOT !:bored: It's a wonderful feeling to be free up there, none better, BUT you pay for it that's for sure !



CW

[PlankBlender]

Does anyone have any first hand info on whether the cadets have finally taken to the air? :confused:

[captainstoobing]

Apparently from someone in the April intake - they are flying their asses off everyday!

[nomorecatering]

Yes they are flying.

YMNG now has over 35 aircraft on the field flying their tails off. So if you're up our way, keep a good lookout.

Note: By NIGHT, we use

Runwy 18 --> Right Circuit

Runway 23 --> Right Circuit

Done to keep the residents at Avanel happy.

ERSA to be amended in due course.

[virgindriver]

.....welcome to the world of the rich & famous, where pilots abound in fast red cars, own multiple properties, have many ex wives (that part is true!) & the general public all believe that pilots are God like


Come on Capt Wally, we all can't be Qantas longhaul pilots!

[KRUSTY 34]

Still no PPL's!

But that's merely hearsay.

[MajorLemond]

I highly doubt they will end up with ppl`s as you can complete the casa syllabus (flying training) and go straight to a cpl flight test, you don`t even have to do a ppl exam. :)

[KRUSTY 34]

Sorry, I stand corrected.

Apparently, if they were to test for the ppl, no-one as yet has the required aeronautical experience.... Yet....

But as I said just hearsay.

Now if any of the Cadets would like to set the record straight? Oh I forgot, they have been gagged.

But that is also just hearsay.