Saudia B 747 Nose gear Collapse at Kuala Lumpur

[Wings]

I've just had a photo faxed to me by our Company Agent in Kuala Lumpur. It shows a Saudia B 747 with the section smashed in and the forward section of the the fuselage sitting on the tarmac, the nose gear apparently collapsed. The agent said it happened at K.L. last night, and yet nothing on C.N.N. B.B.C. or any other news service.
Was there an incident concerning a Saudia B 747 at K.L. last night or am I on the end of a "wind - up" ?

[The Guvnor]

Nope, it really happened - it was being taxied to the departure gate from the maintenance area with just four crew and a couple of staff from the handling agents on board and it went into a drainage ditch.

Extensive damage to the aircraft is reported.

[Biggles Flies Undone]

From the picture on Reuters, damage to the nose section looks extensive with about a 20 degree kink. Could be expensive (to my untrained eye it looks like a -300) but very lucky indeed that there were no passengers onboard at the time.

[Konkordski]

There's a Malaysian report saying it weighed 800 tonnes :rolleyes:

[The Guvnor]

Looks like you'll be paying out as a TCL on this one, BFU!! :D :D :D

http://www.ananova.com/images/news/saudiplaneAP410x261.jpg

[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]

[Traffic]

Tis indeed a 300 with rollers. Not ex-CX by any chance although unlikley as 5 went to PIA and the 6th (HON) went to California.Who else had 300's with rollers?

[Traffic]

come to think of it I think QF has some 300's with rollers but I can't think of any others I've seen. BA went straight to the 400 from the 200 me thinks.

[Onions]

Guvnor,

Do you mean a CTL?

[Biggles Flies Undone]

Not one of ours Guv :D

QF have 300's with Rollers, PIA have 5 as well and CX have one in storage.

[Desk Driver]

Full story and pics Annanova (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_382208.html)

[The Guvnor]

Onions - yes ... my fingers are a bit dyslexic! :D :D :D

[SOPS]

How fast were they taxying? Looks like one hell of a bang. :rolleyes:

[The Guvnor]

Latest from Malaysia:



Ten Saudi Arabian Airlines technical experts arrived here from Jeddah today to access the damage on its aircraft SV 3830, a Boeing 747-300 which nose-dived into a five-meter-wide monsoon drain last night. The experts, who arrived at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 4.30pm, are also scheduled discuss with airport authorities on how to pull out the plane.

Malaysia Airports (Sepang) Sdn Bhd flight operation center head Hamid Awang said the technical experts had informed Boeing of the mishap and the aircraft manufacturer was also scheduled to send its expert team. This morning, Malaysia Airports convened a meeting to determine the cause of the incident and measures to recover the aircraft. The incident happened just in front of Airport Rescue Service Station (AFRS) about 10.08pm when the aircraft was being piloted out from the maintenance hanger to the terminal building.

Hamid told a Press conference at KLIA that the pilot lost control and could not turn right, resulting in the aircraft over-shooting a junction and resting on a five-meter-wide monsoon drain. The Runway Two was temporarily closed last night after cordoning off the entire site where the incident happened. But this morning, after our initial investigation, the runway was open and in operation, he added.

Asked whether Malaysia Airports had done its own assessment of the damage and cause of the incident, Hamid said it had not done so as it was waiting the arrival of technical experts from Jeddah. "We will conduct our formal inquiry. The course of action to be taken, including determining the extend of damage, the loss incurred and the recovery measures will be discussed and decided in a meeting with the (Saudi Arabian) technical experts," he added.

The aircraft had landed at the airport at 5.50pm from Jeddah yesterday. It was developing a technical problem with its third engine and was towed to the maintenance hanger for necessary repair. The repair was completed at around 10pm, and the mishap occurred when it was being piloted to the terminal building.

Hamid said on seeing that the aircraft could not be controlled, the AFRS vehicles rushed out to its rescue immediately. " The aircraft incurred damages but the six crew members on board escaped injuries. The aircraft was scheduled to depart to Jeddah with 355 passengers."

Hamid said due to the mishap, the passengers, mostly Malaysians and Indonesians on their Ummrah journey, had to be transferred to a number of hotels. The stranded passengers left for Jeddah, this evening on the special aircraft which had earlier brought in the Saudi Arabian technical experts.

Last night, Malaysia Airports (Sepang) Sdn Bhd general manager Abd Hamid Mohd Ali said he was satisfied with the response time by the rescue units from the AFRS that took only several seconds to reach the scene. "A few officers at the control tower who saw that the aircraft in trouble had instantly hit the crash bell alarm to alert the nearby sub fire station at the airport,' he added. Other personnel from several agencies, he added, also arrived few minutes later. They included the KLIA Fire and Rescue Department, the police, KLIA Health unit and seven personnel from the KLIA police crime division.

Incidentally, the aircraft in the background of the pix is another write-off: MAS' A330 9M-MKB which had a chemical spill.

[H721]

looks like a write off.

[tunturi]

H721
<looks like a write off.>

You have obviously never seen a Boeing field repair team in action. These men of magic will repair that machine no problem I will wager. Won't be cheap though. Some may remember a mamoth undertaking by such a team at Anchorage(?) many years ago when a B747 slid down an embankment. The Boeing team built a polythene igloo around the 747 and carried out very extensive repairs. If memory serves, then that particular operation was only just this side of being a write off but apparently still fincially viable. That is only one example, there are hundreds I think you will find.

[The Guvnor]

By an uncanny coincidence, Airboeing - there's an article on the Anchorage JAL 747 rebuild in the current edition of Airliners magazine - along with other interesting articles on MEA and the final flight of the last Standard VC10 by the RAF. £3.25 from all good newsagents!!

[grange.guzzler]

Those same guys managed to get QANTAS out of a difficult situation when they rebuilt QF 1 (Bangkok), which by anyones judgement was writeoff. However, for the retention of the aura of not having lost a jet hull, a price was paid, and those guys worked their magic. Now QANTAS is still the worlds safest airline.
Aren't they?? :D

[G.Khan]

Question please. Was this aircraft being taxied by a pilot, an enginer or was it being towed. The Malaysian press release seems to suggest a pilot was involved?

[FREDA]

SV have a bunch of B743s with Rolls engines and have had since I first got sand between my toes in 1994.

[mutt]

G.Khan

My money is on number 2.

FREDA

Your toes are misleading you, 1st one was delivered in 1985.
23262 616 B747-368 RB211-524D4 07/12/85 SAUDI ARABIAN AIRLINES HZ-AIK, the last one was delivered: 23271 652 B747-368 RB211-524D4 11/10/86 SAUDI ARABIAN AIRLINES HZ-AIT

Mutt :)

[ 25 August 2001: Message edited by: mutt ]

[In the slot]

Congrats!! Yet another feather in the cap for that brand new, prestigous, built for the 21st century, in the middle of nowhere, white elephant KL International airport. Looks like even more airlines will be pulling out. They should look after the ones that still fly there!! Wonder if the guy taxi-ing is the same guy who always overtakes me on the road to KL at 160kmh drinking tea with one hand, holding his handphone with the other, and moving the steering wheel with his knees!

[greybeard]

It's a sad sight, nose in the ditch, bum in the air, very close to 32L.

Only one runway operations as it may be in the splays or just not to embarras poor old Saudi.

Waiting for engineering support to arrive.

How do you start the phone conversation when you report to the Boss? :confused: or :o

[ace ventura]

hey guys, the a/c was actually towed by the super efficient tow tucks from klas (kuala lumpur airport services) and knowing malaysia, them guys are tight lipped about it coz' they do not want to be blamed about for the fracas!!!

[mutt]

Ace Ventura
Congratulations on your first Pprune posting, unfortunately it appears that you are incorrect........

“At 22:08 hours, the control tower officer saw an aircraft skid and go into a monsoon drain at the taxiway delta,” said Kuala Lumpur International Airport operations chief Hamid Awang Hamid.

According to Saudi Arabian Airlines, the mishap took place while the plane was being taxied by maintenance workers to the departure gate of the main airport terminal for the boarding of passengers.

“A Saudia Boeing 747-300 plane drifted from the runway while it was taxied by maintenance workers to the departure gate as it prepared for take off to King Abdul Aziz Airport in Jeddah,” an official source at the airline’s director general’s office told Arab News.

“There were no passengers or crew members on the plane at the time of the accident and nobody was injured,” the source confirmed.

This is taken from a Saudi paper, who IMHO would be the first to blame someone else, especially a tow truck driver!

Oh yea, for the anoracks, its HZ-AIO.


Mutt :)

[The Guvnor]

So, Ace Ventura, you're saying that the chances are the tug was being driven by In the slot's mate with the mug of chai and the handy?? :D :eek:

Big loss of face, wah!! :eek: :D

Unless, of course, it's a case of insh'Allah! :D :D

[capt744]

Hi every body,
According to our saudia ma*age*e*t the aircraft was taxied out by malaysian technical staff after an engine runup due to high vibration (maybe #3) on one of the engines after arrival to KLIA coming from Jeddah.
After the engine runup completed then the maintenance started only engines 2 & 3 and started to taxi out to the gate what happened when they want to turn there was no nosewheel steering because they did not operate the HYD SYSTEMS the way it suppose to be; system 1 was off, and the braking from system 4 and 1 was also not available so the technicians could not turn and ended up in the ditch (6 meters deep.
And after the inspection of the aircraft the bad and sad news was called a total loss of the aircraft.

:(

[In the slot]

Capt 744, I can only assume that these technicians/engineers have no idea of the hyd system 4,1,2 priority for normal and alt. braking, or sys 1 nosewheel (and body gear) steering. Hmmmmm, interesting. Back to groundschool I think boys!
Yes what a waste of a good ship. How many 743's does that leave now around the world??

[FREDA]

I think it's pretty clear that the aircraft wasn't under tow, otherwise there would be a tug in that ditch propping up the nosewheel.

[HotDog]

What happened to ADPs 1 & 4? Looks like there'll be a couple of new brooms on the hangar floor. :rolleyes:

[ace ventura]

looks like another case of Mr Murphy at it again!! :)

It's been a known fact that MAS is short of manpower even the sgm flt ops is "short" and i wouldn't be surprised that them guys in the fracas are artisans and not engineers. Don't talk about ADP 1&4, they don't even know what's an aircraft!!
What do you expect when MAS pluck engineers from the trees, if you pay peanuts, obviously you'd get monkeys.
:cool:

[Shintaro9]

Capt744,

Insofar as I know, MAS engineers are not licensed to taxi aircraft, so I doubt that they were, unless they have special dispensation from SV. Even that I think is unlikely.

And talking about hydraulics, MAS engineers are experts. Man, they release aircraft with all sorts of combination under MEL, they know their stuff, except to fix or replace the faulty component ("Nil spare, Sir"). And MAS pilots are experts at flying with less than the full hydraulics complement. Heck, we even had a chief pilot take a fully laden 744 with a u/s number 1 ADP. Had the number 1 engine fail, well....Trust us in the hydraulic cases, we know our MEL like the back of our palm. The only exception was that chief.

Word has it that the aircraft may be a write-off.

Regards.

[H721]

boeing of course can rebuild aircraft from damage of any nature. but is it of the best economic interest for sv to pay that bill.

if sv wants a b743, dozens of salesmen will approach sv and beat the rebuild price by big %!

[Flight Safety]

Section 41 (the nose section) appears to be completely destroyed. The side panels are crushed as well as the bottom panel I'm sure. The only salvagable panel of section 41 might be the cockpit section.

The join area of sections 41 and 42 may well be damaged beyond repair. Section 42 (the section between the nose and the over-wing fuselage section) appears to be distorted and may be crushed at the bottom (I can't really tell from the photo).

If an attempt to repair is made, there will be extensive repairs required in sections 41 and 42 which would entail panel replacements in both sections, especially section 41.

[lesenterbang]

Just to let you guys know, KLAS has got nothing to do with MAS. They are, in fact, competitors. And as far as I know, the SV was handled by KLAS.

So if you don't know, shut up, ace or not.

For those complaining that KLIA is a white elephant, surely they have NEVER operated from Subang International. :eek: :rolleyes:

[Traffic]

Perhaps they were just going through the ditching drill!!

[GlueBall]

Boeing can do a nose job! Lots of noses available off old -100s and some newer -200s roosting in desert junk yards. It's only a matter of cost, and the insurance carriers will make the final decision.

[mutt]

There is still an unanswered question about this......

Who was taxiing the aircraft?

I will give you a hint, they weren't Pilots and they weren't Malaysian.

Mutt :)

[ 27 August 2001: Message edited by: mutt ]

[TAT Probe]

No pilots involved, apparently. It was being taxied by maintenance personnel. This is a -300 that was delivered new to SV

The flight deck looks to be severed, so I guess it is a write off.

[Juri]

SV is handled by KLAS (not by MAS) at KLIA. KLAS ground engineers are not qualified to do engine ground run (EGR), thus the outgoing tech crew were called up to assist in the EGR. As they were running the engines at high power setting to achieve Max Assurance Power (MAP) check, they just lost control of the a/c due to no hydraulic power to the steering and brakes.

[mutt]

Juri

By outgoing tech crew, do you mean the SV cockpit crew??

Mutt :)

[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: mutt ]

[LME (GOD)]

My latest sources tell me that the right hand seat was empty, the guy on the panel was an avionic mech not 747 qualified, not sure who was in THE seat, but i think it may have been a SV flight mechanic (soon to be a GM I think!!) :( :mad:

[mutt]

LME

I seriously doubt that the SV Flight Mechanic will get promoted to GM for his actions, it wouldn’t be a sufficient reflection of his actions :) :) :) Now if only he had remembered “Hydraulics & Brakes 101”….. :)

It’s actually a sad waste of an aircraft for such an act of stupidity. :mad:

Mutt http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/guin.gif

[shady]

According to MAS staff, the outgoing crew had hit the bevies a little earlier than normal. After langushing in the first class SV lounge, the crew were called back to the aircraft. The skipper was apparently down the back with the engineer, when the MAS ground crew spooled the engines up to 70%, without setting the park brake. Wicked result, I must admit. As for the captain and engineer, I'll let you all be the judge as to the outCUM.

[tunturi]

Guvnor
As instructed, I invested £3.20 at a very good newsagent in return for a copy of Airliner World, just for the article alone. Some great photos and a well written article. My memory is obviously the worse for wear as there is no sign of or mention of a polythene igloo, could have sworn that there was one.

The figures are interesting: New aircraft $35 million and total repair cost $21 million, 1975 prices of course. A hell of a job on site. If they do repair the Saudia one I would love to see current comparative figures.

Thanks for the tip. ;)

[lesenterbang]

shady,

Are you very sure that it is MAS ground crew that spooled up the engines? Previous posts indicated that SV was handled by KLAS.

KLAS, MAS, MAB..... Sounds the same but totally different entity.

Cheers. :p :confused: :p :rolleyes:

[TAT Probe]

There is a lot of ill-informed Cr*p being put out on this subject! Shady's rumour source (if that is what it is) is particularly off the LOC.

As in all these things, why not just wait until the facts become public, or an investigation is completed?

:(

[Welded Wings]

Shady - thou knowest not what occurred. So hush up.
No tech crew involved - they were just innocent passengers sitting back in the cabin. Their offer to conduct EGR and asociated taxiing was turned down by maintenance - who then proceeded to taxi using engines #2 and #3 - and yep, you guessed it, left the #1 and #4 ADPs off..
Sad loss of a good aeroplane.

[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: Welded Wings ]

[Top Loadie]

The Guvnor, Airboeing
There's another article on JA8122 in Septembers Airliner World. They must have had some pretty poor working conditions, the incident having happened in December 1975. 12 inches of snow and below zero temperatures :eek:. I get cold fingers scraping my windscreen in the morning!
At least it will be warmer in KL :D

[The Guvnor]

TopLoadie - that's the article we're talking about ... starts on page 52. The big (top) pic at the start of the article is especially impressive!

[lesenterbang]

Finally, the Boeing was lifted from the drain and now resides next to A330 9M-MKB. If you're landing on 32L just look at the right side.

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: lesenterbang ]

[G.Khan]

Two more examples of Boeing mending the apparently impossible. A TMA B747 freighter that ran off the end of the old Athens airport many years ago and broke its back. Dragged to the Olympic hanger, repaired and re entered service.
Air France freighter at New Delhi severely damaged, they built the big tent over this one, re built it and flew that one out also.

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: G.Khan ]

[mutt]

Shady

Your comments:

Im not afraid to speak the truth. The off duty crew were bevied up, and had lost the plot. As is ops normal in the Gulf, crews onlayover head straight for the nearest bar, to seek enlightenment. Our entrepid boys were totally out of it, and by accepting a return to duty, only confirms this.

Are not only complete and utter bolloc5s, but also fall into the category of slander. In case you decided to portray this as a middle eastern trait, the Captain was an expat and WASN'T IN THE COCKPIT.

================

I hope that the Boeing away team have their bags packed, they will be spending a lot of time in KL.

Mutt.

[speed check]

After spending years in the magic kingdom whats new .