Why does the MoD not care?

[RTR]

The government have broken the covenant for the armed forces and they do not recognise that they have a duty of care.

They send our guys to get killed and maimed and wtf do they care?

This is how much the Canadians care!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=559303&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Note the last paragraph. The MoD says that arrangements like this are a "local issue."

That's how much they care!

[Beatriz Fontana]

Don't think that this is new. Gong for Suez? Nope. Pension for service prior to 1969 for ordinary ranks? Nope. Blokes left alive that this affects? Quite a few, actually.

It's endemic with the British government and it needs sorting.

[Arfur Dent]

They employ Des Brown. Not a single Cabinet member has any history of Military service. Non of their children are serving in war zones.
Of course they care!

[circle kay]

SoS having a little "chat" with John Humphrys on Saturday morning's Today:-

Listen Again (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ram/today2_20080412Browne.ram)

:rolleyes:

[Union Jack]

Surely there must still be enough military vehicles left fitted with flashing blue lights which could provide an escort in a situation like this, leaving any local police, who don't wish to co-operate as the Wiltshire police commendably do, to concentrate on "local issues" and "community safety".

Jack

[airborne_artist]

I'm certain that the local TA/RAuxAF soldiers/airmen would happily take a day off their civilian jobs to escort these processions. My guess is that nobody has a) thought of it and b) got off their a@@e to ask them. Who knows, maybe the Ceremonial Duties Bn from London could task some lads to do it?

[Cypherus]

That Thames Valley did not feel the need to provide even a token escort to such an occasion is of no surprise as they do indeed have the impression that this sort of thing is no more important than that of any funeral cortege that frequents the streets of the UK on any given day, none of these are entitled to an escort so why should it be different for people killed in the service of their country.

However it should be noted that should this have been involved with an officer of the said named constabulary division, an escort would have been provided as a matter of course with no thought to cost, politics or religion.

This situation is not uncommon in the UK were the populace takes a rather indifferent view too it’s war casualties in the main leaving only those directly involved with the deceased too see the process through, has been this way for many generations but without a major sea change in the way this countries voters view there armed forces and the job they currently task them to achieve little if anything will change.

Consequently the blame lays squarely on the shoulders of those that voted the people currently exercising their political will on the nation into office, not with the individuals themselves, you put them there, if your not satisfied with their performance, you have a duty to remove them from office as soon as your able.

[Pilot Pacifier]

Gents...

I have hosted this Power Point presentation where I can only assume that the Daily Mail may have got its pictures from.

Hero's (http://www.mediafire.com/?9sey2zsgddt)

Salute...

[GPMG]

To the point and thought provoking, I'll be forwarding that presentation to those in my contacts list.

[Utrinque Apparatus]

They will be removed from office, but not before they have inflicted yet more damage in their spiteful, vindictive pursuit of their social engineering experiments at the expense of the British people.

Browne is a particularly nasty little piece of work so it was good to see even him squirming under what he would laughingly think of as "pressure" from Humphrys. Little git should be fired asap.

Imagine him in a uniform and you have the picture as to the calibre of "his" Armed Forces :rolleyes:

[chevvron]

As long as the Labour party have existed, they have sought to denigrate our armed forces, starving them of funding, reducing numbers, they just HATE them and would love to get rid of them altogether and replace them with a KGB like organistion which they could totally control - something they can't do with some of our senior officers.
The MoS pictures show the contempt with which they hold our armed forces; I was always suspicious of the results of the last general election; was there any way I wonder, they could have been fiddled? I know the postal voting system is highly vulnerable to abuse; could this have made the difference?

[Duckandcover]

That presentation had enough of an impact without the final slide...

I have not witnessed the return of our KIA in person so I am only going on the front page of one newspaper and comments on here, but I hope they're not all left stuck at traffic lights.

Has it always been like that?

[Tigs2]

Great to hear Browne squirm. Thanks for the link.

[Early Stacker]

Does anyone else feel a tad uncomfortable that Swiss Des would willingly go to court to argue that the people he is responsible for should not be afforded their basic human rights?

Light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance.....

[Doctor Cruces]

HMG does not care because it does not have to. They have not been made to pay enough for not caring. As long as there are "sufficient" people to send to far flung , dangerous places they will continue to do so.

Well done to the coroner for speaking out whilst HMG tried unsuccessfully to gag him.

As long as there is no outcry (face it, the public don't care that much, albeit more than the politicos) then the political Masters will continue to sent our people into harms way with insufficient and poorly designed kit whilst they sit warm and comfy and wring their delicate little hands counting off the days till they can sell their second home and pocket the profit and begin collecting their gold plated, copper bottomed pensions.


Rant over, but they annoy me!!

Doc C

[S'land]

May a civilian may add a comment?

This lack of caring seems to be symptomatic of the general situation regarding what we feel about ourselves as a nation/union of nations.

When I was in primary school in the fifties I, like many, used to go to the Saturday morning pictures. Like many of the youngsters there I used to try and sneak out before the National Anthem. If one was caught doing this and reported to the school one could expect to be called before the morning assembly and publicly disgraced for not having pride in one's country.

We were also taught to have respect for our armed forces and what they had done and were doing for us. Most, if not all of the teachers had served in the armed forces, either in WWII or later in National Service. In all of my schools it was compulsory to attend the Armistice Memorial in November.

We used to celebrate Empire (later Commonwealth) Day. When we were taught history it included the achievements of the United Kingdom, both military and civil.

In short we were taught to have pride in our country and ourselves.

Today it seems that pride in country and one's self is forbidden. We no longer have discipline in schools, nor are the military allowed to be mentioned in many schools. Achievements from the past are forbidden subjects, unless it is to apologise for the events in our history. Education is meant to be “easy” with university degrees in bed selling seeming to be more important than the sciences.

This is not a cry for “the good old days”, there was a lot wrong with society when I was young, but some things were good. The pride that we felt at being British was one of them. It seems that our politicians lead the way in not caring and our populace follows. I am just glad that I left the country some years ago.

Boring Old F**rt mode off.

[Toddington Ted]

If I may quote from a favourite poet of mine (not the chap who makes exeedingly good cakes), sadly this is not a new phenomenon as the text below was inspired by actions in Mesopotamia (now Iraq) in 1917:

They shall not return to us, the resolute, the young,
The eager and whole-hearted whom we gave:
But the men who left them thriftily to die in their own dung,
Shall they come with years and honour to the grave?

They shall not return to us; the strong men coldly slain
In sight of help denied from day to day:
But the men who edged their agonies and chid them in their pain,
Are they too strong and wise to put away?

Our dead shall not return to us while Day and Night divide–
Never while the bars of sunset hold.
But the idle-minded overlings who quibbled while they died,
Shall they thrust for high employments as of old?

Shall we only threaten and be angry for an hour:
When the storm is ended shall we find
How softly but how swiftly they have sidled back to power
By the favour and contrivance of their kind?

Even while they soothe us, while they promise large amends,
Even while they make a show of fear,
Do they call upon their debtors, and take counsel with their friends,
To conform and re-establish each career?

Their lives cannot repay us–their death could not undo–
The shame that they have laid upon our race.
But the slothfulness that wasted and the arrogance that slew,
Shall we leave it unabated in its place?

[Utrinque Apparatus]

Duck and Cover

That final slide just summarises what we all think. What's the point of fighting for a bunch of ingrates, grafted on immigrants with a perverse sense of grievance for the freedoms we have given them from their own backward societies (none of which would stand for discontent) and home grown politically inert to$$ers :mad:

Rant off

[trap one]

Why does the MOD not care. It's because the Politicians don't care. And like the good Soldiers Airmen and Sailors that we are, we obey the lawful orders of our government.
If the occupants of both Houses were to be paid, housed and made to work in the same conditions as the people they order around then they might have more respect for them. Only other way would be to make it a requirement to serve for a pensionable period.
Why am I not surprised that it takes a coroner/judge to make them actually get off their duffs and do something. Cause somebody has finally laid the blame at the right door. Yes the arguments are that you go and do the job with what you have but it was the Politicians when they started all the cutting back after the wall came down. Who said "if you haven't got the kit then you can't go) after the then CDS et al said that they couldn't do anymore of the tasking.

Pilot Pacifer, VMT for the pps link.

[D O Guerrero]

Thank God I don't work for that cretin any more... And I thought Hoon was bad.
Thank Crunchie for Humphries.

[Thelma Viaduct]

It's a simple solution to a simple problem:

The covenant was broken by blair, British armed forces now owe no moral allegiance to the 'govern'ment.

That's the price blair paid when he told all those lies, simple as.

It's now time for serving personnel to cash in.

Publicly criticise the 'govern'ment and leave in droves.

F**k them before they f**k you and your family, you owe them/us nothing. Get out and enjoy your 1 chance at life rather than die for a bunch of useless robbing liars :ok:

[airborne_artist]

http://www.oxfordmail.net/news/headlines/display.var.2206306.0.police_to_escort_military_heroes.php

"Two soldiers will receive a police escort when their bodies are driven through Oxfordshire today.

Thames Valley Police was forced to apologise earlier this week after it was revealed hearses carrying dead servicemen were left to fend for themselves in Oxfordshire because the force's motorbikes are out of action due to safety fears.

Three police cars will be dispatched to escort the cortege and bodies of Senior Aircraftsmen Gary Thompson, 51, and Graham Livingstone, 23, after they are flown to RAF Lyneham, near Swindon.

The officers will escort the cortege from the border with Wiltshire to Oxford's John Radcliffe Hospital for post mortem examinations to be carried out."

[Dan D'air]

RM Lt John Thornton (RIP) received IIRC a single Red doing a flypast at his funeral last week.

Surely it would not have been beyond the wit of the MoD to arrange the soon to be retired Sqns. to do their nine-ships a little early, especially for the two airmen who were killed last week, as well as being (IMVHO) a fitting tribute to the Nimrod crew.

Still valid training and (again, IMHO) much more worthwhile.

[Duckandcover]

Thanks for the Oxford link "aa". From the Thames Valley webpage:


14 April 2008

Statement from Chief Constable Sara Thornton regarding escort of military hearses through Oxfordshire:
"It is very important that the sacrifice made by young men and women in our armed forces is properly recognised by the whole community and the police have a part to play in that act of respect.
"At the beginning of the action in Iraq and Afghanistan, our service men and women were brought to RAF Brize Norton and were escorted by Thames Valley Police motorcyclists to the John Radcliffe hospital in Oxford.

"A year ago this changed to RAF Lyneham and Wiltshire Constabulary took over initial responsibility for escort. Unfortunately, this coincided with the withdrawal of all our motorcycles from the road after the deaths of two police officers elsewhere in the country and so Thames Valley Police was unable to continue the escort from the Wiltshire border.
"We are, however, about to take delivery of a new fleet of motorcycles and they will be operational from the second week of June. Thames Valley Police will then recommence the escort to facilitate movement through traffic.
"I apologise for any distress caused by the photographs of military hearses caught in heavy traffic on the congested roads of Oxford."

My faith in tabloid journalism is restored. Nevertheless, they should have completed the task with cars.

[Cypherus]

I am sorry, but was that an apology from Sara Thornton or a poorly disguised compilation of excuses laid squarley at the door of whitehall in the form of a demand for better police funding....She should resign over her attitude to this matter, the public expects better from it's police forces and the provision of an escort by patrol cars would have served well in her favour rather than this sorry attempt too spin off the problem.