Irish rip off

[NoJoke]

I just submitted a post a couple of hours ago that seems to have disappeared, so lets try again.. .Anybody else out there working for an Irish airline that has any comment about the abuse of FTDLs and general treatment of crews? <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="redface.gif" border="0">

[Notso Fantastic]

Why don't you read the introductory spiel? I shall reprint it for you &lt;&lt;As this is a very busy forum please limit new topics to items of news or rumour related to public air transport. If you have a specific question then please use either the Questions Forum or the Terms & Endearment Forum for pay or conditions in specific airlines. For Technical issues please use the Tech Log Forum. Etc. etc. &gt;&gt;. So for a start, why don't you reprint it in the right place? Why don't you think it applies to you?

[Doctor Cruces]

How about "Polite" Notso or are you a Pop Idol addict and seek to emulate Nasty Nigel?

Perhaps someone here just made a mistake. There are ways, and frankly you are just Bl**dy rude.#

Flame me if you want, I don't care.

Doc C.

[HugMonster]

Notso, that's the third time you have been gratuitously rude to other posters here. What part of the phrase "professional courtesy" don't you understand? Or what part of it do you think doesn't apply to you?

[NoJoke]

Hi guys - on a nightstop tonight but will give further facts tomorrow relating to the abuse of FTDLs :) <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Augustus Finknottle]

Not So,

What's your problem you pompous ass. You are not a moderator, so what's it got to do with you. I've checked your history and your last 5 posts have been telling others what they should and shouldn't be posting. Haven't you got anything better to do ?.

If you don't like a subject - then don't read it you self rightious prat.

Toodle Pip, Gussy.

[ 17 February 2002: Message edited by: Augustus Finknottle ]</p>

[NoJoke]

Sorry for the delay in replying but someone has to work - not just enjoy life. Firstly to deal with NSF - Son wait for the subject to be properly opened before jumping in with your size twos. Looking at your profile I should guess you are BA so should it be NigelSoFantastic. Oh dear I just couldn't help that :) The idea of this topic was to check the difference between FTDL of different EU states supposedly working from the same bible. For example can all States now work 14 hour duty days with up to 6 sectors in that day? Do a split duty where the time between duties ie the split is factored by 1.5 giving huge duty times that are then not counted towards the cumulative duty time. 1/2 hour checkin down route and 20 for end of duty after on chocks etc.

I do not work for an Irish company, but a good friend does and has shown me the details - they are always knackered, don't get crew meals (though they are allowed to take a packed lunch from home) 6 on 2 off . . . . This can't be the normal JAR

[Maxfli]

Its legal, its JAA approved, they do 900 hours/year. I used to work for a Belgian operator where 1000 hours was permitted and min rest was length of preceeding duty or 8 hours.

Most of the FR guys I know accept the bed they've made, the're grumble is about the phone calls on the 2 days off. As one US president said "just say no"

Down Monica

[Loadshifta]

While JAA has a FTL scheme published that should apply throughout JARland each State still can and do set the FTLs for their state.. .This leads to many anomolies, with UK probably being the most restrictive.. .The biggest anomolies occur for night time operations where the various authorities have taken no heed of the crews input regarding how they cope best with operating night duties, particularly if they are an all night time operator, choosing instead to listen to some moronic set of doctors spouting on about biorythms sleep patterns , sleep deficit etc. ad nauseum. Most crews who do all night operations would prefer to operate for 5 or 6 nights straight and then have a number of days off.. .The biggest problems encountered with night operations is finding somewhere to get a decent feed.. .To get back to the point of this thread, the IAA generally have a more pragmatic approach to FTLs than some other states, and will often allow an FTL tailored to suit an individual airline. If this is considered an abuse then watch out children!

[NoJoke]

Thanks to those that have written sensible replies to this post. In my opinion it is unfair for certain airlines to indirectly gain State assistance by different interpetation of JAR FTDLs. For example if airline (A) needs 30 pilots to operate a schedule, and then airline (B) needs 20 pilots to operate a similar schedule because of tailored or relaxed FTDLs - which has the commercial advantage? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Soddit. .JAR FTL heated up at the back end of last year then went quiet. Don't think NASA involved in Jar FTL. The Airlines have reached a common understanding last time i heard, but its a waste of time anyway as it still allows airlines to . .speak to their national authority thus allowing. .some airlines to start at 0001 end at 1800 after 4 sectors with 2 crew (Spain) so whats the point?. "We've been doing it for 20 years without incident" was the airlines answer!!. The UK CAA's view is that UK Airlines are "safer" but beancounters don't normally follow that line do they. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[doomsday]

Doctor Cruces, Nasty Nigel was from Pop Stars not Pop Idol. Get your facts straight man!

[PETE LASHMAR]

Arhhh but Nasty Nige did produce Pop Idol...and he'll be back later in the year with popstars 2 as well as Pop Idol 2

[Carpe]

Are we drifting off the subject again? You don't want telling off do you?