EK Housing Mess..

[sheiken around]

Please .. all new joiners to EK be advised that you WILL NOT be honestly advised of the true situation as it exists today regarding the housing situation. Regardless of if you are a DEC or F/O ... here is the truth...

You WILL be placed in temporary housing which will be a 2 bedroom apartment in one of many of the worst areas of Dubai. No one will tell you about this .. other than before you join, you will be told that you will be placed in temporary accommodation for 2-3 weeks.

You will not be told that the time spent in temporary accommodation could be from 6 months to 1 year - until you are briefed by various staff members after you join.

You will write emails and make phone calls attempting to fix the problem - only to be misled and deceived by many departments.

You will have no TV or internet access for at least 3-4 weeks..unless you are able to have it installed yourself assuming that you are not still attempting to gnaw at the carrot that is being dangled in front of you that you will be moved "soon".

You will spend a significant amount of time calling/emailing every aspect of management and accommodation departments - all to no avail.

The bottom line is this..DELAY moving to Dubai until you are assured - in writing - that your apartment, villa etc. is ready for you to move in to.

[sioux115]

When I was interviewed last week the recruiters were very upfront and apologetic about it. They said they were embarrassed about it and that everyone would be in temp. housing (studio) for a min. of 6 months, most likely in the Marina area. They also said they understand it would most likely be a deal breaker in deciding to join and that everyone interviewing should email their concerns to the HR people. Im assuming so they would have a record of it to show the people making the housing decisions how it is effecting their recruiting efforts.:ugh:

Sioux

[Flyer34]

I too was told at the interview in February that it would be at least 6 months of temporary accommodations when joining. It seems to me that it would be quite hard to 'delay moving to Dubai' until getting assigned permanent digs.

Flyer

[Saltaire]

There is a rumor that some of the temps are very nice places in the Marina.... again, great for some, and others might end up in Satwa :ooh:

lottery

[Fart Master]

Have heard that some people have turned up, taken one look at their 'accomodation' turned straight around and caught the return flight home..... I'm serious no BS

[northeast canuck]

I recently decided to not attend the selection process, and sent an email to HR citing the lack of suitable family housing as the main reason for not attending, for what its worth. Living under the flight path of a major expanding airport (with no option to move) is unacceptable! I don't understand the concept of not being able to have any say in where you live. You wouldn't buy a house sight unseen, would you? Of course not! So what makes EK think that this is OK?! Not for me it isn't.

[Black Pearl]

Has EK at least tried to sweeten the deal with the poor state of affairs regarding temporary accommodation? One pilot I spoke to told me that his wife and 2 small children will be required to stay with him in the downtown area, which is commonly frequented by Moroccan prostitutes? Alternatively the family must delay their move until permanent accommodation is sourced. This could take up to a year? Wow that’s not reasonable! What about schooling? Where do you place your kids? At least Emirates should be sensitive enough to the new pilots with kids at school going age? One can accept that there are logistical problems with accommodation; at the same time is there not an overabundance of empty accommodation in the bay area, or is it too expensive???:uhoh:

[NautiFlyer]

I joined EK in early December 07. As a single FO, I was immediately put in Temp apartment, in a rather cr@ppy part of town (Morrocan Hookers, etc). Although the area sucked...the apartment itself was not too bad. I understand that now new joiners are being put up in temp apartments in the Marina Area...which has to be much better than where I was originally. Bottom line is...I stayed on top of trying to get a permanent apartment... I made numerous phone calls and visited HQ several times. After 4 months, I was moved to a permanent apartment in a very desirable building.
NF

[BigGeordie]

You would think in the long run it would work out cheaper for them to increase the housing allowance to something sensible (at least a 50% increase, probably more like 75%) and let people sort out their own accommodation problems. I can't understand why in so many ways Emirates tries to make life hard for themselves.

[revertedrubber]

"Keep discovering" this will be your motto when looking for your permanent accomodation when you arrive in Dubai. The most unprofessional, unorganised department with their heads deep in the sand!

[5star]

I think Revertedrubber was even quite positive about the accommodation department....Dealing with them is a nightmare and it is a shame for EK. These guys drive you nuts...

The only piece of advice for guys with a family: Just put the gun at their heads when you arrive and treaten them that you will go. Else you AND especially your family will be SCREWED. And it won't be fun !!!!

Increasing the housing allowance will not solve the issue btw...who wants to bail out of company acc. with these ridiculous rents in Dubai....
Home Bases are the only way out of this misery. I know I'm dreaming...

[Fart Master]

True, the one thing the accomodation department is, is not 'accomodating'.

They pissed off many of the pilots who had been here many years when they tried to move up to DSO. In my book M-J from accomodation gets the award for being the rudest person in EK, no mean feat I can tell you:ugh::ugh:

[yankee22]

Just had a friend from home over visiting while he was here doing the interview with us. Same thing as mentioned previously... minimum 6 month wait on permanent housing but be prepared for up to 1 year is what they told him.

And as for a place in the construction crazy zone of the 'marina'... apparently that is drying up and there are very few spots available. They have a cap on the rents they'll pay and the cost is getting above their threshold. They told him to expect anything in terms of accomadations. In lamen terms... get ready to be put up in a crappy part of town.

Needless to say he's dissapointed with the whole housing issue and leaning towards not coming even if he does get the call. It's unacceptable in his opinion and quite franly I don't blame him. Especially seeing he's dragging his wife and child with him. Either that or leave them behind for up to 1 year. Can't see that working well for the family.

EK better get their act together... this kinda stuff won't fly with most who have a brain!!!!!!

[superjet777]

Don't want to divert the thread too much but is it true that 900 cabin crew have resigned so far this year?
Thanks
SJ777

[yankee22]

Yup... If not then close to it. Almost 400 alone were Korean as that region his hiring with postings out of ICN (Seoul). Also adding to the loss what the fact that KLM is hiring and have a cabin crew base there as well.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Gents:

Having heard some temp housing is in the Marina area..... Can anyone confirm if the "permanent" housing for apartments might also be in the Marina area?

K

[Flyer34]

OK...once EK finds you a permanent place in 6 months to a year...if you don't like it, can you refuse it and ask for something else?? Is it a "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" situation with what sounds like a very slow-moving and unhelpful accommodations department?

Thanks,
Flyer

[BigGeordie]

The temporary accommodation is at the Marina because Emirates have serviced apartments there that are not yet full. Hence, it costs very little to put people in there, although it is a very, very nice tower.

There is not a snowball in the sand's chance of permanent accommodation being at the Marina- it is just too expensive.

If they offer you permanent accommodation and you don't like it you always have a choice- you can take the utilities allowance instead. If you don't want to do that either then I have a strong feeling you will be in temporary accommodation for a long, long time as every time you turn down an offering you will go to the bottom of the list again.

Don't be under any illusions that you have any control over where you will end up living in Dubai if you are in company accommodation. It is a chance you take when you join.:ugh:

[forum newbie]

I have an interview scheduled for later this month and will definitely not come to dubai if the housing problems dont change. I cant have an entire department dictate my family's personal being.

[Gulf News]

I cant have an entire department dictate my family's personal being

Nwebie Mate if you are considering a career with EK this is something you will have to come to terms with. You will not be just an employee, you will be an "expatriate employee" to whom the company dictates. Everything from where you live, who your neighbors are, what time you will leave your house to go to work, who does your annual medical and countless more will be laid out for you on a take it or leave it basis. No negotiation. The leave it part means leaving DXB and the company.

Emirates is your sponsor and so every little thing that you wish to do must be approved by the company. Want to take a car loan, open a bank account, change banks, get internet, drivers license everything you can imagine requires a letter from the company. Admittedly the process for getting the letters has been streamlined in passed years but it still means that the company has a record of every little thing you do.

Your contract will contain a paragraph to the effect " The Employment Regulations ( currently published, and as amended from time to time after the date of this contract) form part of your contract of employment. This line alone says we can change whatever we want and can tell you to lump it. Ask anyone who has been here a few years how many changes there have been to the "Employment regulations in their time here.

To all potential newbies think very carefully and have a very open mind about what you are willing to accept or not.

[revertedrubber]

Must say it would not take a bunch of rocket scientist to have forseen this problem so you can only amagine the clowns that work in the accomodation department. "Assess, action and manage" Poor planning on behalf of a worlds leading airline with huge growth and recruitment. Makes you wonder?

[schismatic]

GulfNews makes a highly valid point.

Once committed to EK and the country they will, and do control many aspects of your life. Big Brother like no-where else. One could argue this is necessary given the security issues of the region. They need to keep a close eye on who is doing what but that also means they keep a close eye on you. Closer than many think.

This also indirectly ensures there are few rights. Even the legal system is such that it is clumsy and expensive. It can be almost impossible to get law enforced if there is an issue. Many take advantage based on the premis that the plaintive will be tied up for years and wind up bankrupt in their quest to get justice done. In my years I've seen several cases of this. Generally people have to give up and go home. Dreams shattered.

There must be financial advantage to offset these risks. There was once, but now it is definitely not there. What more can be said? Speak to someone who has been here a while and come with eyes wide open. :eek:

[Roster Change]

From someone who has been here a while.

Joined EK 11 years ago, put into temorary accom. for 6 weeks. !!!!!!!

Moved into my new permanent appt. Didn't like, approached the folks in accommodation, and they moved me into the appt. I wanted 3 months later. Perfect. Stayed for 4 years here. Big rise in utilities allowance so took the gamble and moved from company housing to going "solo".

7 years later I am well ahead of the game. Get payed utlities of approx. 142,000 pa and rent 3 bed villa at Mirdif for 96,000, basement, swimming pool and gym. Aircraft can be noisey, but get used to this as you do with all the background noise of traffic and ongoing building.

Being an expat is for the long haul, swings and roundabouts. Stick with it and you will gain some and lose some. Overall I have enjoyed the experience. You will never know unless you try it !

[alwayzinit]

Joined 18mths ago, at the interview made it very clear that DSO would not work for my famliy, some thing about getting back on the next A/C out springs to mind.
The Interviewers were gracious and honest, not their dept etc but would pass it along.
When offer arrived, on the advise of a chum I went to some lengths stipulating what our requirements were, where the kids were going to school, etc etc.
It worked ...... nice pad right where we wanted to be, close to school, beach, mall, but 35 mins from airport great!
My advise is a) remember that the interview is a 2 way process b) put down as much detail as you can on joiners form, so the company don't have to guess c) don't come here with any rose tinted specs it is reality in the raw.
That said we are happy, having fun and in general much better off than if we had not come, but it is different for everybody.

[serious flyer]

Big rise in utilities allowance so took the gamble and moved from company housing to going "solo".

7 years later I am well ahead of the game. Get payed utlities of approx. 142,000 pa and rent 3 bed villa at Mirdif for 96,000, basement, swimming pool and gym. Aircraft can be noisey, but get used to this as you do with all the background noise of traffic and ongoing building.

Roster Change,
Would that be possible nowadays? Getting a good villa with the House Allowance? You did it in the past, could a new joiner do it today?
Reading the rumors here at Prunne, seems that you would be expending more money than you get paid to get a good place to live if you go on the House Allowance road.
SF

[B. Bonga]

I think the long and short of it is, delaying to join EK for the sake of "they should improve the accomodation matter ............" theory is stabbing in the dark. Am sure in the big scheme of things, they are a good company to work for. Like l say take a number and join the seniority or whatever it is they have going on there.........you want to be up there with all the aircraft orders they have lined up than complaining about something you have no power over, before things change. And in this part of the world things can change very quickly.........

With all the bru ha ha on Pprune, you would think nobody is joining EK, QR, EY........... :=

[145qrh]

I thought the Queen was part german, with a little bit of greek thrown in occasionally :E:E

[forum newbie]

Thanks for the response about the housing problems at EK. I am leaving for the interview in a couple of days and will just treat it as an extended vacation to learn about the company. I will not hold back with the inteviewers regarding many issues on this forum. I dont know if it will do any good but i am interviewing emirates more than they are interviewing me.

Topics include: why people are leaving, why the low morale, why did you guys not realize the problems with the housing market, why the constant changes in rules, and many more. I dont expect any miracles but instead, just want straight answers without drinking the kool-aid.

I know that dubai is a third world country with money and a lack of rights of certain individuals, but it does not hurt to be up front and ask important questions that impact my family.

On a side note, can my dog get the same freedom that it has here in the states. I have a pet poodle and cant live without him.

newbie

[Cyberbird]

"I thought the Queen was part german, with a little bit of greek thrown in occasionally "

... well, that's spot on - the whole english royalty has german roots -
ands should be correctly called "Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha"
which is of course in Germany .... like it or not ...

if you want to have more details, why the english are german derived -
beside t;)he fact that even their capital was founded by the romans and called
"Londinum" - years ago ... have a read furtheron -u might be surprised:ok:

"Is British Royalty Really German Royalty?"well -at least partly, but not wholly,
as it is not at all unusual for European royal families to have bloodlines and names from foreign nations. After all, it was common for European dynasties over the centuries to use marriage as a political tool for empire-building. The Austrian Habsburgs even boasted of their talent in this regard: "Let others wage war; you, happy Austria, marry."* (See Austria Today for more.) But few people are aware of how recent the British royal family name "Windsor" is, or that it replaced very German names. :eek:

The House of Windsor
The Windsor name now used by Queen Elizabeth II and other British royals only dates back to 1917. Before that the British royal family bore the German name Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha in German). Why the drastic name change?

The answer to that question is simple: World War I. Since August 1914 Britain had been at war with Germany. Anything German had a bad connotation, including the German name Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Not only that, Germany's Kaiser Wilhelm was a cousin of the British king. So on July 17, 1917,to prove his loyalty to England, Queen Victoria's grandson King George V officially declared that "all descendents in the male line of Queen Victoria, who are subjects of these realms, other than female descendents who marry or who have married, shall bear the name Windsor." Thus the king himself, who was a member of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, changed his own name and that of his wife, Queen Mary, and their children to Windsor. The new English name Windsor was taken randomly and by chance from one of the king's castles:rolleyes:

As a matter of fact six British monarchs, including Queen Victoria and the infamous King George III during the American Revolution, were members of the German House of Hanover: :eek:

George I (ruled 1714-1727)
George II (ruled 1727-1760)
George III (ruled 1760-1820)
George IV (ruled 1820-1830)
William IV (ruled 1830-1837)
Victoria (ruled 1837-1901)

Before becoming the first British king of the Hanoverian line in 1714, George I (who spoke more German than English) had been the Duke of Brunswick-Lüneberg (der Herzog von Braunschweig-Lüneberg). The first three royal Georges in the House of Hannover (also known as the House of Brunswick, Hanover Line) were also electors and dukes of Brunswick-Lüneberg. Between 1814 and 1837 the British monarch was also the king of Hanover, then a kingdom in what is now Germany.

Queen Elizabeth II confirmed the royal Windsor name in a declaration following her accession in 1952. But in 1960 Queen Elizabeth II and her husband Prince Philip announced yet another name change. Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark, whose mother had been Alice of Battenberg (another german province), had already anglicized his name to Philip Mountbatten when he married Elizabeth in 1947.
Interestingly, all four of Philip's sisters, all now deceased, married Germans! :ok:
In her 1960 declaration to the Privy Council, the Queen expressed her wish that her children by Philip (other than those in line for the throne) would henceforth bear the hyphenated name Mountbatten-Windsor. The royal family's name remained Windsor.

[Flyer34]

Muttley Crew,

What a pretentious, pompous and pointless post. Rant, speculate and 'whinge' by all means but please don't abuse others for the occasional grammatical slip-up. It's not becoming of a gentleman.

Flyer

[chainsaw]

Cyberbird,

That's all well and good I suppose, but what's British royalty and the House of Windsor got to do with the EK housing mess? :confused:

[TangoUniform]

Sioux115,

We have to apologize for pompous ass****s like Motley Crew. That is why the interview process is so important, not whether one can fit in, but rather if one can put up with the likes of MC.

Oh and by the way, Muttley, your own Oxford University Press lists "interview" as a verb. To quote the verb definition, "hold an interview with". Sorry, but couldn't find a definition of Muttley. Guess it must be your surname. Cheers, Mate.

Jeez, another DeltaAlpha at EK.

[SierraAlpha]

Hey Forum newbie,

I'm also being interviewed next month by EK, any updated info on the interview process will be much appreciated. Thanks.

SA

[yankee22]

Hey Muttley Crew...

Go F!@k urself!!!!!!!!!!! Get a life you loser!!

[bobsback]

Ok...I've been here over 5 years. I have no intention of heading elsewhere. I really enjoy my job. I like the destinations & the plane that I fly. I'd love to earn more money however I made my choice. My family love it here. My children get a wonderful education. The ek clinic is excellent. In nearly all areas I am happy apart from one-The Accomodation Dept. In nearly all my dealings with it (them) I have been left wanting. They have no real understanding of how important this issue of housing really is. Atall. If this was how I ran my aircraft I would be counted negligent. One problem is that they have so many complaints that they start to stick their head in the sand (and there is plenty of it) in the hope that it'll all go away. It doesn't for us!
many people are happy where they are however for each one there is there are plenty left in dispair.
Good job, as I say, in almost every way:ugh:

[Cityliner]

@Yankee22

nice and helpful post! :ugh: always nice to read some posts that sophisticated and professional :D

In another Forum someone mentioned a meeting at VP level regarding the housing mess.
Can anyone confirm this and what possible conclusions they made?

Where are the Temp. Acc. located?

[sioux115]

Hey MC,
I edited my post for you. Now maybe you can sleep at night. In the future do not judge my professionalism or my adherence to SOPs by how I reply on anonymous message boards.

Sioux

[ORD767]

Do any of the expat flyers at EK live out of base and commute to work?
Seems like half the base at ORD commutes from somewhere else, but then again it isn't 6 or 7 hours to somewhere habitable.

[scaglietti]

Somewhere habitable?

ORD767 please apply to EK you'll fit in perfectly. That's sarcasm BTW just in case it's too cold in Chicago at the moment for you to recognise it.

I'm not sure, given the tone, if the question in your post deserves a response but here we go.

NO THIS IS NOT A COMMUTING JOB!
EVENTUALLY YOU WILL BE PROVIDED WITH PERMANENT ACCOMADATION IN WHICH YOU ARE EXPECTED TO LIVE AND WHICH MAKES UP A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF YOUR REMUNERATION PACKAGE.


My apologies I sound like a presidential candidate attacking his/her opponent for a "mis-statement". Just woke-up, still tired, standard EK.

Scaglietti

PS. New rostering restrictions really do not allow for commuting.

[decision time]

Since turning down the opportunity in EK, I’ve been watching developments closely, mainly out of curiosity. It’s only been over a month now and I can safely say that it seems to get worse there. Apart from the obvious inflation rate and poor pay package which was the fundamental reason for avoiding the place, it now transpires there is a BIG accommodation issue.

This is the icing on the cake for me even bothering to ponder any concerns about my initial decision, considering I was told that only a few months delay in permanent accommodation might be the case. It would seem that when you join, you are given a contract but if the company can’t honour their side of the contract, there is no recourse. In the contract it states that the company will provide you accommodation, but it now transpires that they can’t give you permanent accommodation for 6-12 months! No problems but who pays for storage or the fact that you may have to register in a number of schools, not once but twice, once for temporary accommodation and again when (if) permanent comes up, the new employee appears to pay for the majority of this, twice.

From comments on the ME forum, the standard of the temporary accommodation leaves a lot to be desired. Talk of permanent accommodation in Mirdif is also absurd. Having to try and sleep outside a circadian rhythmic sleep patterns is bad enough, now add variable aircraft noise to the equation and you are building a recipe for personal sanity. http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/circadian_rhythm_sleep_disorder.htm (http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/circadian_rhythm_sleep_disorder.htm)

The accommodation saga, coupled with the initial concerns about inflation and the obvious fatigue issues surrounding 24 layovers on ULR flights is… crazy. I now know that I have significantly increased my chances of enjoying retirement for a number of years instead of burning out or being burnt out.

It is sad that Emirates could easily afford to look after it’s staff and still make loads of dosh, but I guess managers in the airline, like all airlines, have got to shine and prove their jobs worth…. at our expense !

[DutchBird-757]

Ok guys, as a total newbie on EK but with an interest to end up flying for them one quick question that came to mind.

Can't you find a place for yourself to stay in or do you have to go down the offered accomodation path as (I believe?) it's part of your contract???

Thanks,

An EK newbie... :confused:

[BigGeordie]

DutchBird, if you do a search you will find it has been done to death- yes you can move out of company accommodation and go your own way but the allowance they give you will just about cover the rent on a two bedroom flat- but not the bills that go with it. It won't cover a mortgage (interest rates are fairly high here) unless you have a 30 or 40% (ie 500,000Dhs) deposit and are prepared to invest that in Dubai.

[disconnected]

BigGeordie you are a bit out of touch. Dhs 500000 will probably be about 40% of a reasonably located 1 bed flat in Dubai. Try 2 Million to get 40% of a villa down - Thats 7 years of an FO salary assuming he spends it on nothing else - Oh I forgot - he'll be spending his whole salary on the mortgage. :uhoh:

[BigGeordie]

I should have made it clear, I was talking about apartments. The figures in the two posts above are more accurate for villas. If you move out of company accommodation you will realistically only be looking at a one or two bedroom apartment.

[GMDS]

And just where would my kids live, Big Geordie? - Pathetic.

EK moves closer to a bachelors airline, like the miserable workers in the labor camps. With all the frustration and personal problems that ensue.

1. Leaving your loved ones back home for 6 to 12 months (exactly what they are suggesting now with their c*#k up in the housing dep) is not only detrimental to your morale, it is simply unaffordable!! How can you pay the appartement/house back home with the miserable pay as a starting FO, considering that a great part of it is supposed to be free housing??

2. All those who chose to leave company accomodation are left in the dump. The allowance is lightyears behind the market and will never be adjusted even close to what EK themselves have to fork out for their rented villas. They might think "their problem", but it was done mainly due to family issues (school proximity vs. daily traffic terror or the missus who confronted you with leaving this acco or yourself) and not due to snobbish reasons. So lots of these folks are now confronted with the choice of a negative financial worksheet or having to leave the pit. Again this concernes mainly families, leaving behind only bachelors who can afford to stay.

3. Some have found the solution in commuting. Get into a cheap outfit here and have the family in a decent house back home. The missus' frustration with the pit, the schooling cost and traffic woes are almost sorted out then and being able to get home for a decent amount of days a month suited a lot of us. AAR and the long range clown have just ruined that aswell. Nobody was fooled by the clowns comment, we all know it is jealousy of the ingnorant and incompetent who lead to this. And for the third time they hit those with family.

A bachelors airline will bring in huge instabilty. They will see. Allthough we know that they abolished the SEY layovers only for monetary reasons, their argument that too many of us got drunk down there and that the hotels complained and that's why they were forced to do this does not only expose their ridiculous state of mind, but might indeed point to a future problem: The one they will get with frustrated bachelors. :}

[BigGeordie]

The company rarely consider the long term implications of anything they do, and I'm sure some genius with a calculator has worked out how much they would save if they didn't have those pesky wives and children to look after. Medical, school fees, villas, it really stacks up if you have say 100 pilots who are single rather than having a wife and 2.4 children.

[6853]

Met a recent new joiner who has been given a villa in Arabian Ranches due to shortage.

[TangoUniform]

Villa shortage? No way. After the announcement of our paltry profit share and pay raise, there will a number of villas come available. If I have it right, there will be any number available around September 1. That's three months after the resignations hit on June 1. Time enough to divest of furniture, cars, etc. So new joiners, there will be plenty of villas and decent used cars available to you around September 1.;)

Ten percent plus, inflation, rostering patterns of limited time off, standby duty on a designated day off, ULH flying with minimal down route rest, inadequate rest facilities on aircraft. Lousy salary compared with the rest of the premier carriers in the world. US carriers (failing as they are) .paying close to 70,000dhs/mo., Korean paying 48,000dhs/mo with world wide basings, all for 777 capts, Ek paying 30-40dhs and required resisdence in Dubai. EK bosses had better get their heads out of the sand or they will find not only guys and gals leaving, but will find they will have a hard time recruiting enough experience to fill their pretty jets. It is a sad state of affairs when recruiters have to apologize for anything during road shows and interviews (ref. housing) They have an opportunity coming up, will they rise to the occasion or continue their path of mediocrity? As my old football coach used to say, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t."

[Big Buddha]

TangoUniform, where do you live? Just wondering if it is worth holding out for your house?

Cheers

[Fart Master]

Don't ya just love it.... why look after the staff when you can just f**k them off?:confused:

One day when there is a smoking mess in the side of the hill the Hibibis at the top of this s**t pile will realise that maybe they should have paid a little more attention to looking after the company personnel instead of looking after their wallets:uhoh:

[GMDS]

Hot off Rumour Network:

New joiners are being offered an "Enhansed Accommodation Allowance" of approx Dhs 160K and approx an extra Dhs 170 for the first year if they opt out of company accomodation.

Shis

This needs a verification follow up. Allthough I can't believe it, we need to confirm or put off this rumour.....
If true there will be some angry questions, if not a lawsuit. Even in this s$%t place there is a fat chance that they'll run into problems.
One thing is for sure: If it is true and no one cares, then I'm out of here tomorrow!:yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Flying Spag Monster]

Spoke to a new guy at the CBC yesterday, living in Deira amongst the hookers etc, been told to wait 6 months for better accom. Was offered the living out allowance plus a one off 100k to help get set up....

[GMDS]

Had that scam confirmed aswell now.
I am outraged and have to do a profound reality check.
:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[chintanmanis]

Muttley Crew got it absolutely right! Not pleasant for some to read but very true.

[bushbolox]

Whats wrong with living with hookers. My wife was one.:E Might come after all.Maybe I wont have to.

It seems todays new joiner is tomorrows pprune whinger...Nothing wrong with that but I think the next move will be basing for new joiners but not existing people for sure.Too much upheavel.
How about this as a possible scenario. Devils advocate and all that.

Not enough people willing to move over to the gulf and not enough houses for those that are.
Lets say there is a downturn in the UK or say BA strike and lots of guys leave. What would be the best option? Not enough crew or a pool of experienced crew who would be more than happy to fly the kit you park at heathrow or elsewhere in the uk whilst still living at home.No one can claim they arent as qualified or shouldnt be decs, accomodation doesnt need to be found and you lot will do as your told according to your rather flimsy contract (probable management view , not mine) Times are a changing Emirates isnt what it was...Basically a great expat gig. Poaching ready to go pilots is the way forward. Pay them gross and let them figure the tax out. Lots already have that bit figured out and dont live where they work. Switching to EK is nothing but a change of sop.

I think its on the cards. The gulf is now a dump, somewhere to go if you have to.Or wanta big command relatively quickly. The people will dry up

Nobody belived John the Baptist either. :ok:

[SOPS]

so what is it exactly they are offering?

[gaz90]

Look it is obvious from the posts of the guys who who are currently going through the interview process that EK actually does mention that accommodation is a serious problem.And if you actually live in DXB you know that it is not their fault. It is virtually impossible to find good accommodation at a reasonable price for any employee so gripe about something else that really is their fault and within their control.

[schismatic]

gaz90 what is a reasonable price? I would say the market price is the baseline.

Therefore you need to pay people enough to get into accomodation at whatever the market price is.

Simply put - it is entirely within their control. Housing allowances should have increased to reflect rental increases just the same as salaries should increase to reflect inflationary pressures.

It is entirely within the company's control. And they are making billions. I too could make billions if I could pay way under market prices for everything.

Give me property, shares, gold or labour at well below market price and we'll get rich together.

Why defend those who are exploiting you?

[Ghostflyer]

An interesting development. EK FO allowance around about 125k add 100k and you might be able to get a 3 bedroom house in a nice area. After 1 year though you have just 125k.....eeeek.

Allowances are interesting things. Many companies pay well over 300k, even ATC pay their guys 185k plus utilities. So it would be a massive risk to take that deal and I suspect it has been offered without much expectation of uptake to be seen to doing something. I for the life of me can't work out why they don't up the allowance to say 300k and disband the accomodation department. Then they don't have any of these hassles, surely that would save some cash in the long run

[5star]

Ghostflyer,

300K allowance. Keep dreaming.

[sanddude]

Mate I feel bad for your family, but spare us the whining, you new it was coming didn,t you.:confused:. hardly a suprise.

[Blue320]

Not to stir the pot but the housing I was shown whilest I was there last month was far from acceptable. All though brand new; they were town homes with no yard, no covered parking, very cheap inside, etc. ....in an area called "*****" or similar. One of the interviewers wifes (not American) was along and made her decision right then and there. Don't really blame her.

[fatbus]

Well I can say is good on her for sticking to her guns, accom is a big issue when it comes to families and EK has to deal with that and not have the attitude " take it or leave it". The job is good but not good enough to put your family through hell for it.

[Marooned]

Saying the accommodation is not EKs fault is to overlook their woeful lack of planning.

The expansion has been ongoing for years but the logistics to support the expansion have always taken second place to headline aircraft deliveries. So it is no surprise to anyone except it seems those in management that the aircraft will require more pilots, engineers, cabin crew and other support staff who will need somewhere to live.

It is their fault and higher up the chain the rampant, uncontrolled speculation driving up accommodation prices has created rental prices that EK are not prepared to pay for. So they find the cheap short term solution pending the cheaper long term one of mass accommodation blocks out in the desert somewhere.

There are even some villas available on existing EK compounds, just a few, but left empty because they are unwilling to pay the inflated rental price.

Prior planning would have prevented this p*** poor performance.

[williewalsh]

I believe basing will be next for new hires with a drastic change in policy . Line in the sand (pardon the pun) and all that. End of housing, crewing ans expansion problems in one go.
There is alot of potential dreaded DEC and halo wearing FO candidates in Europe at the moment who dont want to reside in the gulf and are very concerned about the future.
Hiring a defunct carriers chaps as a job lot already rated would solve alot of issues.
Ah labour laws I hear you cry. Give an unemplyed 330/777 chap the option of unemplyment or staying where he is flying new kit on a dubai contract with caveats for basing and domicile and i believe they will bite the hand off in a NY second. Cheaper all round, tax is not eks problem niether is housing but the contract is administered under Dubai law.
It works for Korean.
They invite non typed people with equivalent heavy time to obtain a type rating themselves and then choose a base. If you are typed all the better. The UK for example is awash with 330 pilots, 767 pilots and if the big boys go under all the 777 drivers you can eat. (times are changing at Big Airways and they do retire rather early)
I believe Dragon also had manchester based 747 pilots on a hongkong contract in the past.

All it needs is for the light to go on in some bean counters head and it will make todays bitching about EK look like small fry.

Just thinking out the box gentlemen no offence intended, I know how sensitive some of these issues are:ok:

[fatbus]

Dont waste you time thinking there is going to be basings. Last pilot meeting it was brought up again and again NO basings.Do you really think its costing EK 200k + for villas,not!
Dubai inflation means more money spent in dubai. If you say the amont of money spent by 2000 pilots is a small amount compared to everything alse in dubai than whatever EK spends on villas is even less

[williewalsh]

Hello fatbus,

Thats the rub , they probably have no intention of basing existing crew no matter how senior. a drastic cahnge in policy would need a huge event as a catalyst.
As an example lets just say BA starts redundancies in the next two years. Plenty of 777 drivers about already non domiciled,not ready for retirement already rated,hugely experienced and quite happy to sign up to a middle eastern carier that is willing to let them carry on their lifestyle despite different general contracts.
Instant experienced base at LHR, no overheads as they currently manifest themselves.
I can asure you there would be many takers.

As for morale in Dubai weel they dont really care anyway. A re recruitment ban would ensure no one jumps ship to get rhired , or even only poach from one demographic.
Like I said just thinking out of a changing box.

[fatbus]

Yes you would have lots of takers. I think they could do it my formng a separate company and offering contracts, similar to Atlas.but as of now they still think that there is no problem to get guys to come to dxb.

Good summer time gossip

Anyone notice the additional 333 order x30

[Marooned]

WW: What planet are you from?

The 777 is the most efficient long-haul aircraft in the fleet and they want more as the 744 uses fuel 30%+ fuel.

I realise you want to play devil's advocate but have some sense.

Also the hiring of a job lot of a defunct carriers pilots also ensures that the culture of that airline comes with them. This poses all sorts of problems and if it threatens their control over the pilots they won't do it.

Part of the Dubai experience are the trials and tribulations of the indoctrination process and exposure to the 'if you don't like it leave' mentality.

Basings, while they make sense to many of us, won't happen soon and are being kept firmly 'in the box'.