Flybe

[SIL27]

Hi everyone :-)

I have looked at the flybe website and know their payscale regarding basic salary.
But can anyone tell me about the flight pay? How much do you normally get as FO and CPT?
Are the flight pay tax free as in many other companies?

[dv8]

£1.90 per flight duty hour
If HRMC has its was no one will have tax off the FDP
Was fully taxed up to last month. Some (temporary) tax relief given now I think at 18p in the pound I stand to be corrected.

edit: rate per hour was the old figure

[G-FLYB]

Me thinks it is £1.90/hr

[SIL27]

Okay... Thanks!

And how many flight duty hours do you normally have per month?

[wellsey]

Depends on your base and what fleet you are on. Assuming you start on the Q400 expect anything from 40hrs in the winter to max hours in the summer. I have found that mine normally fall around the 60-70 mark with the odd manic month.
All in all, pretty good and you are home every night and no more night flights like my previous outfit......yeehah! I rarely get night stops but I am sure you will get someone on here saying they get loads....that is not the norm.
Hope this helps.

[SIL27]

Okay! Thanks a lot!
I have been invited for an interview in June or July, whichever suits me.
Im Captain on Dornier 328 with a total of 2100 hours. In June or July I will probably have around 2250 hours. It seems like for a Direct Entry Command you need 2500 hours. But on their website they also mention something about experienced First Officers can expect a fast track to Command. Do you know anything about that? I dont know if Flybe is in huge need of Captains at the moment?

[fatboy slim]

Never believe the old 'fast track to command' line. I've heard it said to many pilots either joining or leaving where I've worked and it has never been true. Unless they write down in your contract when you can expect your command course (which they won't) don't believe a word of it. Better to delay your interview for 6 months and go in DE command. Lots of people leaving BE all the time so constant need for experience.

[six-sixty]

Flybe definitely need captains. You'll need a certain number of hours on type with Flybe (can't remember off top of my head) but with TT like that and previous command experience you won't be waiting long.

[SIL27]

Okay thanks a lot.
I will see what they can offer in June ;-) But it doesn´t sound too bad once you become Captain with them.

[skysod]

EMB 145 fleet now on the wind down, so most pilots on that fleet with enough hours (ie mainly captains) are looking elsewhere as they don't want to take a step (dare I say it) "backwards" onto turboprops (Q400).

So a shortage of commanders may be in the offing.

[boeingboeingbong]

Well your step 'backwards' seems to be a step sideways in the eyes of Easyjet in that they consider the 145 and the Dash to be the same for their type rating sponsorshop scheme (also included is the 146/RJ).....

[Iver]

How long before a newhire could expect to see the right seat of an E195? How long on average - 4 years?

[Maude Charlee]

Re 195

Depends which seat you intend to join in, and again choice of base. If you intend to go RHS, expect 18-24 months before your seniority gets you onto the 195. Lovely bit of kit by the way. :ok:

[onthebreakforhighkey]

Hi nice Flybe people. I am interested in the roster patterns you guys work. I have been told 5 on 2 off of which the first 3 are earlys and the the last 2 lates. This then moves to 6 and 3. Could anyone give an indication of just how this works in practice with rough start and finish times. Also contract states to be within 1 hour for call outs; just how many standbys can you expect to undertake in the month.(nice chap in interview said don't do many)
Been used to whizzing around at Mach .83, looking forward to being home more but as a result will have a bit of a commute so any information would be great to help plan the future. Many thanks.

[gainanduru]

well with capts they will work you out to max in the summer months on avg 90-100 rostered hrs:{
expect hard work, lots of disruption.
the best fleet at flybe is the emb-195 fleet but all promotions are based purely on seniority so for a command on the 195 expect upwards of 10 years at least.
If you plan to come to flybe think seriously about it
It's no place for a easy ,chill, relaxed lifestyle.:ugh:

[Trainspotter]

Any clues as to which bases they are recruiting for?

[Rollerboy]

Trainspotter

Recruitment directly on to the Dash 8. As an F/O, expect Flybe to place you north of the English/Scottish border. As a Captain, I am led to believe you can request a base.

Roller

[SIL27]

Does anybody know what the interview will be like?
I have been told it will last around 45 min. - 1 hour. What to expect?

[The Flying Cokeman]

SIL27,
I know you must be dying to leave Sundberg & Co. but are you willing to live in UK full time? What about your family in DK? Commuting long term forget it!
THere's a lot more to it than just getting a new job across the punt.
Held og lykke.
TFCM

[SIL27]

HA HA HA yeah Im REALLY looking for a new challenge in my career. Im not interested in commuting and therefore, yes, Im willing to move to the UK permanent. Im 27 and single so why not :-)

[Cyclone733]

SIL27,

There are a couple of good threads over in Interviews, jobs & sponsorship about the flybe interview and sim assement.

All the best

[cheesycol]

Onthebreak

Not had a regular 5/2 roster yet.

For me April is 2off/5on/1off/3on/2off/5on/1off/4on/4off(leave)/4on

Flybe rosters are more of a wish list than a statement of fact - expect lots of airport standby, home standbys before a duty, and when it's quiet there will be bucket loads of home standby. Your roster will have plenty of changes!

[Maude Charlee]

Your lifestyle depends entirely on base and fleet. At some locations (usually the far-flung banjo-playing corners of the empire ;)), crews barely get out of bed more than 3 times a week, and even then it is for a very short working day, whereas others are working like the proverbial one-armed paper hanger.

Choose carefully.

[SIL27]

For sure the Dash is the most common aircraft on the Flybe network but which bases are actually the largest regarding destinations and number of aircrafts?

Im just curiuos about where you will have the most variation in your everyday flying regarding destinations and schedule.

[FL370 Officeboy]

If you want variation in terms of destinations etc I would say SOU would be your best bet :)

[slapdash8]

The larger Flybe bases are SOU, BHX and MAN. For more choice of routes, SOU and EXT. MAN is full of 145s at the moment with a 195 and 2 dash's night stopping. at the other end of the spectrum, theres IOM, 3 dash's, spending your time too and from LPL MAN and LGW, and your never more than an hour from work ;)

[Coffin Corner]

1992

Historically you will not be able to choose your base unless you are joining as a DEP, even then it will be down to what's available.

If you are a low houred wannabe then you have to be prepared to move anywhere on the network, at the interview (or after on the phone) they will most likely say "welcome to flybe, your base is xxx", you may be told at interview what bases they are recruiting for, and if you show some discontent that this you will probably not get the job.
Once you have accepted the job you can then bid for the base of your choice every 6 months, I know of 2-3 f/os who started before me who bid for a base closer to home and had it within 8 months, but this is dependent on base requirements & movements etc.

Again historically flybe recruit for the northern bases, i.e. EDI GLA BHD & IOM, we are desperate for f/o's in JER apparently.

[FL370 Officeboy]

These replies are a bit dated. Nowadays, the company will try and offer you a base before you start. If you don't want to be based there...wait until your preferred base is available. If you're not under pressure to start (i.e. a newbie desperate for a 1st job) then you aren't in the same boat of accepting anything. A few of my friends have started with flybe from other companies and got the base they wanted because they weren't desperate to start regardless of base.

[expedite08]

Ive got a bit of a gap between my CPL and IR, is that a problem? During the gap I still maintained currency.
I was traininig in a new job and so had to halt the training for a while. Do they look heavily in to this sort of thing? :ok:

[Coffin Corner]

Whether or not you've got the license is all you need to concern yourself with ;)

[Iver]

What is the estimate for the soonest a newhire could bid the right seat of an E195 after starting? 3-5 years? Which bases would allow for that?

[Coffin Corner]

All seniority dependent, if you are prepared to go anywhere it could be within 18 months (has been known to be sooner). If you want to wait for seniority you may be in for a bit of a wait.

[Maude Charlee]

RHS 195 I suspect will take longer that RHS used to take with the 146. I haven't met anyone yet who is currently unhappy occupying that seat, and I think at long last the company may have hit upon a desirable office in which to reside. Ts + Cs not changed, but bit of a step back in time to jump to another a/c type now, which it never used to be, and the prosepct of a Dash command even more unpalatable to some than it was before. I would guess now that RHS vacancies pretty rare beasts much before 2-3 years, even in the less 'popular' bases.

[Mister Geezer]

Less popular bases.... Anyone for Aberdeen??? :}

[Serenity]

Looking for info on the sim ride if anyone can enlighten me, SIDs/STARs/Routes ??
Cheers!

[speedrestriction]

Relevant posts to be found towards the bottom here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=320173) and

here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=283586)

sr

[Iver]

Are there specific bases that do not offer E195 slots and only Dash slots? Also, how many total E195s have been delivered and ordered? Was the order for 30 aircraft?

[Maude Charlee]

Currently 10 in service with 4 more firm orders to be delivered. As far as I know, the others (12?) still remain as options.

195 bases currently EXT, SOU, BHX, BHD, MAN, JER, ABZ and INV. Don't believe current fleet plans will include a/c being based at any other location, as the propsed a/c for GCI has been located elsewhere due to GCI currently being unsuitable for 195 ops.

[ABO944]

Are Flybe currently looking for FO's ?

I am after a change of scenery ... 1350TT about 900 on TP ... not a Q400 though!

Would I stand a chance ?

Would prefer to be based down south.

Cheers,

:ok:

[assymetricdrift]

Long shot, but is anyone on here going to be on the May 28th T/R course?

And also, is anyone reading going to NCL?

Many thanks!

[Wellington Bomber]

I wonder if he has seen the future ahead and thought get out while i CAN?

[spagiola]

Which two BAe 146s have been retained for the GCI ops?

[Loop... Hole]

I believe there are still 11 146s in the overall fleet out of which any four are operating.

[slapdash8]

G-JEBG (Mansion) and G-JEBF are sat on remote stands @ MAN not doing a huge amount at the moment, as far as i know, these are the only 2 146's flybe have in operation, the rest are in storage at EXT awaiting handback

[acepilotmurdock]

I am going for an interview at waterford soon. I hold a ppl with around 100hrs and got about 130 hours which dn't count cause the conspiracy against aviationsaid they where not withh CAA aproved istructors they dont count. Anyway isthere any news on the base at Newcastle, as I live in Sunderland, and hate the mags football team but love there airport. Can anyone tel me any snippets? ie. what routes they will fly, Dash 8 or 195? All would be helpful.;)

[Rollerboy]

Well acepilotm you are not going to like it... One Dash to be based in NCL I believe the reg G-KKEV (magpie fans only then). For routes go to flybe.com and have a look it's a good website tells you all you need to know. As for worrying about NCL and Flybe in a few years time... A lot can happen in a few years.

For interview answers aswell as flybe site check out bombardier site and wikkipedia. All you need to know.

Good Luck

Roller

[assymetricdrift]

NCL - I believe that there will be more than 1 plane based there in the not too distant future. Up until June, I know of at least 6 F/Os who are going there - including myself.

Routes are basically going to be Gatwick, Cardiff and Aberdeen with an occasional Limoges thrown in for a bit of variety.

As for expansion plans, Mike Rutter was quoted as saying that there are plans to launch services to Scandanavia and Germany, so watch this space.

In the meantime though, from what I've heard, NCL is pretty full.

[License to Fly]

acepilotmurdoch - you need to check your posts, I have never seen such bad spelling and grammar in my life.

You should know that high standards and attention to detail are essential pilot skills

[Big Birdie]

I see with interest that ABZ is listed as a base for the 195. Does anyone know if they are recruiting for this? Poss Direct command? Lots of big jet time under my belt but not enough time at home!

Thanks in advance.

[Pizzaro]

Don't think they recruit direct onto jets have to go via the TP's.

[Coffin Corner]

Big Birdie

You could have 3,500,000 hrs on an Airbus 380, but you will indeed only get a DEC on the Q400

CC

[Serenity]

The paypoint levels, 1,2,3 etc, are they based on years served, total hours or mixture of both?

[six-sixty]

Salary points based on whole years with the co only - hours etc not a factor.

[Maude Charlee]

Whole years served by seat to be completely pedantic. Back to year 0 with any move right to left.

[Big Birdie]

Ok then! Turbo props were always much more fun anyway! Do BE have a pilot base in ABZ or not? If yes - are they recruiting?

Thanks again.

[Big Birdie]

Thanks Wingo....will enquire. ABZ is a wonderful place to work and live...if you love the rain and the cold!

ATB to all you ppruners.

[FL370 Officeboy]

ABZ is an E195 base though so not available for new joiners initially.

[Serenity]

so how long until they start a SVG????? :}

[Richard Taylor]

I have nothing against Flybe whatsoever, but please chaps:

NO MORE STAVANGER - PLEEEAAASSSEEE !!!!

:= ;)

[africaflybynight]

I currently fly a 1900 on an ICAO licence (by the end of the year SA ATP 2000+ hrs total and 500+ on the 1900 in two crew environment). Would there be any chance of getting an interview with Flybe if I had the medical and 14 subjects passed, with a view to using the Q400 type rating to do the required flight test to gain the full licence?

[FL370 Officeboy]

In a word - No.

You must have a current UK or JAR issued ATPL or frozen ATPL with current medical (and also current MEIR) to even apply to flybe. They are an airline not an FTO and what you are suggesting is a flight training issue.

A simple look at their website gives their requirements:

in addition to holding a valid UK CAA or JAR licence and medical on application First Officer candidates should also have completed a Multi Crew Co-operation course. All applicants must speak fluent English and where relevant have the right to live and work in the UK. Applicants for the Channel Islands ie Jersey and Guernsey must have the relevant residential qualifications.

[africaflybynight]

FL370 Officeboy. I apologise if I gave the impression of this being a flight training issue through bad wording, and was in no way suggesting Flybe act as an FTO, or give any extra training that wouldn't be given to new employees as a matter of course and was looking seriously at career options back home in the UK, not a quick fix for a license.

[FL370 Officeboy]

I don't think you gave the wrong impression.

with a view to using the Q400 type rating to do the required flight test to gain the full licence?

You MUST have a JAR or UK issued licence to apply. From what I can gather from your post you have a SA ATP? You wont even get past the application form if you don't have a UK/JAR issued licence. Therefore, you wouldn't be able to use the Q400 TR to gain the full licence as you wouldn't be eligible to do the type rating in the first place.

What I meant by 'training issue' is that if you are looking to get a licence issued that would be more appropriate to deal with a regular FTO.

[paddyfactor]

Hi there. Military turbo prop type looking for info from Edinburgh based captains. Typical roster, days off per month. Ability to take leave and if any family travel benefits (have three little ones). Heard they were looking for direct entry Captains on Dash 8 is that still the case? Also would a 50 min commute from fife tie in with the usual Edin roster.

Thanks in advance and feel free to PM.

[Finals19]

Heard the lead time to interview right now from application is a couple of months at least?? Is hiring slowing up a bit?

[1013 with altsel]

At the IoM base you will save around £450 a month in tax!!

[wbryce]

Finals, I was called about 2wks ago for interview which is not until mid-July as this was the first available date. This was via FTO recommendation though. Last I heard was November applications being processed in April, about 5 months, but these are minimum hours applicants. I don't know if experienced applicants are filtered.

[Maude Charlee]

WW

Belfast by a mile. Much better route structure, great crews, brilliant city (though INV is a hoot admittedly) and absolutely loads of flying.

I would rather ditch a burning a/c in the sea than even visit the IOM, never mind being based there. :} Duelling banjos anyone?

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Come on Maude it's not THAT bad!

After a few drinks. :}

[Maude Charlee]

That's what they told me in the prison showers - I'm not falling for that one again! :uhoh:

[Donnabryan]

Hi!

I'm a Dash 8-200 Captain (USA) with 500 hours command and almost 3000 total time.

Just married a Scottish fellow and would love to work for Flybe based in INV. (Or EDI GLA coming in 2nd and 3rd).

Going to get my Medical and studying furiously for exams - anyone have an outlook on hiring in the later part of this year?

Also, since INV is a jet base and I'm a turboprop driver, how does Flybe view transition - how long would I be with Flybe (guesstimate) before being transitioned over? I'm going for a A320 type rating in Oct so will be somewhat familiar with jet operations.

Is INV a big base - I'm guessing 4-6 crews? Popular base?

Thanks - Donna

[RED WINGS]

Think a q400 is about to be based at INV soon and they are asking for people to go.

They are also advertising in Flight Internationals web page for dash contractors may be worth a look.

[assymetricdrift]

As far as I'm aware, they are always looking for crews to go up to INV. Doesn't seem to be the most popular choice for some reason.

As Maude Charlee hinted, the Isle of Man is probably less popular though. The money you save on taxes, you spend on getting off there in the first place! :E

[Donnabryan]

I Googled and found a magazine subscription but no web page - please give me a link for the Dash Contractor postions!

Thanks

[RED WINGS]

www.flightglobal.com (job search UK)

or

www.aviationjobsearch.com

[Donnabryan]

Thanks! Found a lot of interesting jobs but the Flybe Contractor listing seems to have gone away.

[RED WINGS]

Its there its the one listed as 5 on 5 off

[oapilot]

Try www.ppjn.com

Look on right hand side under agency jobs. There's one dated 19 May, and others I think further down.

Worth checking them all if you can find them, as word from one of the contractors currently flying the line is that terms vary between all of them, so worth finding out all you can.

Good luck!:ok:

oap

[Donnabryan]

That was great info. I appreciate the help! Are you flying the line for Flybe just now?

[oapilot]

Yep, please feel free to pm me if you want any more info.:)

Regards

oap

[G SXTY]

I would rather ditch a burning a/c in the sea than even visit the IOM

Brilliant MC! I'm going to borrow that line for my emergency briefs. :ok:

[Maude Charlee]

:E

We actually used to brief that before launching back to Brum.

"Any emergencies on departure and we'll continue no matter what, and even if we're on fire, we'll ditch and swim for it!"

Loved the place really.

:}

[Wellington Bomber]

On the routes thread it says that a recruitment company in Switzerland is looking for 20 captains and F/o's to fly for Flybe on the Emb145 for 1 year, and this is being advertised in the USA with all the regional operators of this type.

How do the CAA look at this regarding US Pilots with FAA licences flying G Reg aircraft and also vice versa with JAA licences flying N reg AIrcraft in the states

[Lucky Landing]

Hello Everyone

Can some of you let me know what it is like to fly for Flybe please? Thinking of joining and would be interested in news and views on the good and the not-so-good, culture etc.

Thanks

[Hudson Bay]

WELLINGTON BOMBER

Any FAA Licenced Pilot with 3000 hours can fly G registered aircraft. The UK CAA has allowed this for some time now because of the shortage of Pilots. The only exams they have to take is the Air Law and Human performance.

[Coffin Corner]

The bond for the Dash is 3 years reducing.

Stable life? look elsewhere, if you join as a captain you will be worked very hard at the moment. Basing will all depend on what's available at the time, but joining as a DEC you may have some bargaining power as we are still sort of skippers

CC

[mikehammer]

Has Newcastle a full quota of crew, as far as you know?

[JimNich]

Donna

Regarding Inverness, I'd give it a miss if I were you. Its a terrible place. No nightlife, the countryside is bland in the extreme, the roads are mega busy and it takes forever to get anywhere. There's nothing of any historic interest at all and everyone's so grumpy about having to live here that it makes for a pretty miserable populace. Its just the pits!

All in all you'd be much better going down south, Edinburgh and Glasgow are brilliant places.

Good luck with the move. :ok:

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Flybe dont seem to mention INV as a base on their website.

Is it a crew base for Pilots? What types and is it fully crewed?

Cheers

ED

[Coffin Corner]

It's just an EMB195 base

[FL370 Officeboy]

INV gets an additional Q400 next month and Dash pilots are rostered tours up there in July. I expect local crews will be recruited for INV and I seem to remember people bidding for Q400 INV at the latest bid :ok:

[Iver]

Any opinions of flying the E195 out there? Has it met your expectations? How soon before a newhire on the Q400 could bid FO on the E195? I hear some bases allow for this sooner than others.

[IrishJetdriver]

If this is your first job then grab it with both hands. Forget the shiny new E195. Its the job you need. I left Flybe last year and I think the 195 may be dead mans shoes, especially if the job market starts to dry up. Don't forget that Flybe jet fleet will be a fraction the size of the TP fleet and I believe that the ex BA EXPRESS crews will now be eligible to bid for the jet. When the market is going the way it is you must be absolutely flexible in your approach. focus on the now.

I will add however that I had 7 very happy years there (Bae146)

[gtaflyer]

hi

can you pm me

gtaflyer

[CRX]

Regarding INV, I understand the Q400 arrives in July to replace the 145.
Routes will be INV-MAN-INV (early AM) , INV-SOU-INV (around lunchtime) and INV-MAN-INV (evening) as I understand.
The Q400 will be based at INV and jobs have been offered to fill the slots.
Highland stand to lose a few I believe, and possibly Eastern also.

[Albert Another]

Good evening all,

I have been involved in military aviation for many years but next year I am hoping to move into the civilian sector. The previous posts have been very useful but I would like some help understanding some of the working practices:
Do you hold standby as one of your ‘5’ on-days or on days-off?
Approximately what time period defines an early or late shift?
What is a ‘typical’ fly duty period?Many Thanks

[Rollerboy]

Albert

Answers

1. Standby days occur on your days on. Depends on the base but usually 1 or 2 during your 5 days on. Also usually 5 days on 2 off but sometimes a 6 day on stint before 3 days off. Block stand bys now a theme usually a block of 3 in a duty period expect to be used at any location on those days. In a general month 3x 2 day off blocks 1x 3 day off blocks.

2. Earlies from 0545 to 1400, Lates 1330 to 2230hrs once again depends on basing.

3. Anything from 600 - 800 hrs but depends on basing.

As you see much depends on your base you may get 10 different answers from 10 different pilots based at 10 different bases. If you get my drift.

Roller

[G SXTY]

Indeed. At the risk of a sweeping generalisation, pilots at the bigger bases (eg MAN, BHX, SOU) are generally busier.

At some of the more, erm 'remote' outposts, things are a little quieter. Which leaves us more time for perfecting the banjo. :ok:

[Iver]

Sorry, I have follow-on questions to my earlier questions which weren't really addressed. First, are there any London-area pilot domiciles (LGW?)? Also, how long with it take to bid the E195 FO seat for a newhire (on average)? Lastly, any impressions of flying the E195 from those who fly them?

PMs are welcome.

Cheers

[G SXTY]

No London area bases. The closest would be Southampton, but it's the most popular base on the network, so you would be very unlikely to be based there as a new starter (no chance as a new FO, maybe slightly more hope as a DEC).

All new FOs start on the Q400, so there would be a long queue ahead of you for the 195. I'd suggest 2 years as a ballpark figure.

[oapilot]

You will find that in the majority of cases re blocks of duty, you WILL start your block on an early and finish it on a late....:*

[Albert Another]

Roller,

Thanks for the info :ok:

Albert

[Mungo Man]

I'm 145 rated with 1000 on type (FO time) and 2100 TT but not that bothered about flying the Dash if I could live in SOU. Sounds like getting that base is unlikely but lets say if I did get it, how long would a Dash command take? Ie. are they upgrading people at 2500 hrs TT or would there be a fairly big queue?

How popular is Exeter? I'd be happy there too. My current base is just too far north for the long-term. Maybe I should just apply and ask them these questions if I get an interview...

[Coffin Corner]

Same as anywhere Mungo, for command you'll have to join the seniority queue, also you will need 500hrs on type with flybe before you are eligible.
Basing depends on demand, SOU is popular so you'll have to join the queue here too, I know of 2-3 F/Os who have joined there having bid for it with only 8 month's service so you pays your money you take your chance.

Exeter is popular too, fair few new F/Os started recently so chances of being given it straight off will be reasonably slim, but again you never know.

CC

[Coffin Corner]

WingoWango

All I was saying is that there isn't a Q400 there at the mo, (only the 145/195) maybe they are indeed replacing the 145 with the Q400 in the near future.

[Maude Charlee]

Iver, ref 195

Fabulous bit of kit - makes the 'modern' Airbus look like a throwback to the 80's and don't even think of comparing it to the brown junk that passes for a Boeing flightdeck. Real nice machine to fly, and loads of toys for the lazy pilot. :ok:

You can bid for it from your very first bid, and if you are flexible on base, should be able to make it quite comfortably in 18 months from joining. Jet FOs have always been quicker to move on than the skippers, so not quite 'dead mans' shoes, but the process may be a little slower now given both the current economic climate and the high level of contentment amongst the operating crews in relation to the 146 which it replaced.

Well worth waiting for, and a type which I expect will become increasingly commonplace.

[RoyHudd]

Maude, ref 195

Tried a new-fit A330 recently, full CPDLC and all? They are not bad at all, even compared to the 195. Reliability is A1 too.

[3REDS]

Maude

I still bet you are wishing you were flying the rubbish Boeing or the out of date Airbus lol....:O

The 195 is nearly on a par with the 737 or A319 but it just isnt.... so no matter how much you big it up its more on a par with the Emb 145 than an Airbus or Boeing.

Enjoy the BIG jet pal:E

[FL370 Officeboy]

I hope that one day I'm like 3REDS. It's my ultimate ambition. Imagine that, it would just be utopia. Surfing PPRuNE insulting as many people and organizations as possible. I can even visualize it now.....sat on my Airbus in a place far away from home with my shades on when it's dark and nicely polished orange, sorry gold bars. I would challenge anybody who didn't genuflect in my presence and tell me how they want to be in my position of superiority. I would damn to Hades anyone who possibly had the ignornace to be happy flying their current aircraft type close to home with a carrier I didn't approve of. Anyone who led a life free of contempt and jealousy of someone else would be blasted by my powerful autothrottle. I could go home and look in the mirror and grin to myself before I did my microwave meal for one. Then I would sit and wonder why everyone just smiles when I talk to them and no-one is my friend.

Enjoy the BIG chip pal :E

[Love_joy]

3REDS

In what way is the 195 not on a par with the Airbus?

OK, physically it is a SMALLER aircraft. But the guys above were specifically refering to the cockpit install and AC systems.

I have worked with BAE on the Airbus A320 family avionics and systems, and have just enough knowlege on them to be dangerous. I now fly the EMB145.

The 145 is everything the bus should have been. The 195 series only adds to that with some impressive navigation aids and extra goodies to make the flight deck an even nicer place to be.

[RED WINGS]

FL370 Lol! Ive often thought that about some heavy contributers on this site!

Cheers buddy you made my day! Im still chuckling LOL:D

[Maude Charlee]

WW

If you transfer RHS to RHS, expect something like an extra £7K for the 195. Of course, this kit is only for folk who don't have any hang-ups about the size of their equipment.

;)

[RED WINGS]

Maude lol! Best post ive ever seen you do! Poss the only one I agree with to ;)

What is the hang up with the size of the equipment? Never understood it! An airplane is an airplane! :} Only diff I can see is the bigger they get the easier the job is!

Large underpants on back order:ok:

[TCASIII]

The Emb is actually much longer than the A319! & a little longer than the
A320! Just short of 40 meters!! OK it carries less passengers! But shorter NO!!

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Happened to be surfing around as the sad man I am and could not help but make a contribution. I am an Airbus Training Captain, and unashamedly love the beast. I do, however, recognise that the new Emb 195 and all its various offshoots are fine beasts too. I was on holiday in Egypt last year and got a brief flight deck visit and thought how good it looked. It does not have the sophisticated fly-by-wire stuff of the Airbus, but it has some magic little gizmos to entertain the crowds to offset that. I would really love to meet someone who has flown both to hear a genunine and insightful comparison. I do not include a previous contributor here who felt that having been an engineer on an Airbus he could make valid comparisons - he is simply not qualified to make the assertions he has done about the Embraer being everything the Airbus should have been. No doubt in time others will appear who have flown both, but generally speaking I would expect the journey between Embraer and Airbus to be one-way traffic. Nonetheless, it is clearly a very nice aircraft that I do not knock in any way. I would go as far as to say I would thoroughly enjoy flying it. However.....

The contributors here are missing the key point which is this - it is a completely worthless type rating! Why? Because no one else uses it (no one else I would wish to work for that is!). Please do not be insulted by that, but it is absolutely critical for young pilots to understand how vital 'useful' type-ratings are. I do not have a 737 rating, for example, and think it is a really old-fashioned and dreadful old machine. I do, however, genuinely wish I was rated on it. Why? Security, security, security! That is the key. When times get hard, as they are surely about to, being unemployed with an Embraer rating will be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Until you have a Boeing or Airbus rating you are vulnerable - it is that simple. Again, please do not be insulted and hear what I am saying. I am not saying that the Embraer is rubbish or something similarly crass - I am saying that the rating is really of little value if you want safety in your career. The longer you fly the thing, the further away from a Boeing or an Airbus you are and the more tied to FlyBe you become. Great if you want to be a FlyBe TRE or whatever - disastrous if something goes wrong there. Five thousand hours on an Embraer will simply not cut it when you are up against guys with five thousand hours on a Boeing or an Airbus. Harsh - but absolutely true.

In short, the Embraer may be magnificent to fly - personally I prefer the Airbus, but that is irrelevant. What matters is future employability. You need an Airbus or a Boeing on your licence and the longer you leave it to get one the more vulnerable you become to downturns in the market. So my advice is this, get out of there as quickly as you can to take up a job that gives you the Boeing or Airbus rating. Nobody is debating whether the Embraer is or is not a good aircraft - what I am saying is that it is the wrong aircraft for a UK-based pilot to be rated on long term. Love it or hate it, Boeing or Airbus is where it is at. Sorry folks but that is the way it is.

Answers on a postcard please...

[Ennie]

How dare you refer to the 737 as a dreadful old machine!

I'm dreading my Airbus course, though do feel very, very fortunate that I will have the two on my licence. You are right in what you say about the importance of a good rating, especially now.

[Chesty Morgan]

NSF, I believe you are pretty close to the mark with that post. However, can I just temper your opinion with one of my own.

The 195 is still pretty much in its infancy and has already proved itself to be efficient and reliable beyond expectations. I believe it is a very attractive proposition for the future. What with the downturn in the travel industry, and the upturn in fuel prices, smaller more efficient aircraft could become more popular, a la Dash 8.

With whispers of BMI interested in the 195 and a very feint whisper from Jet2 who knows how popular the 195 will become in the next decade or so. I, for one, shall wait and see.

And besides heavy jet time on any type wont do you any harm whatsoever.

But I agree with you...for now.

P.S. The 195 has got FBW, ok not as expansive as the Airbus, but it does have the all important Alpha Floor protection or whatever you Airbus lot call it.

[Rollerboy]

Thanks NSF for your insight about what you should do with TR this present day. One thing you are forgetting as fuel prices get higher and higher old 737 will get brushed by the wayside eg one american carrier getting rid of 96 I believe, this will flood the market with 737 pilots useful TR.

As for the 195 well a new a/c family that I am sure will become more and more popular. Also if you are flybe you still have the Dash rating and in 1year time when oil is around the $200 mark, wonder how many of those Dash rated pilots come in handy.

Airbus and Boeing are not the only aircraft in the sky, think about it by virtue of the fact there is more of them there will be more pilots looking for jobs as more companies cut back or DIE.

My thoughts
Roller

[3REDS]

FL370

NSF's point is what i was trying to make but didnt have the time or the inclination to explain it. If you truly believe that a 195 rating is better than and airbus or boeing then that is up to you. If you polled a 100 pilots I bet at least 90% would go for the bus or boeing. No matter how sexy the cockpit or how new it is it is still a cr@p rating to have in UK whick was all i was trying to point out in my orig post.:ugh:

Give me a boeing/airbus anyday you can keep your EMBarbie jet:ok:

[100above]

Whilst I would be delighted to have a 737 or Airbus rating, I'm not paying for one, nor do I want to sit in the RHS for years again, just to fly a bigger aircraft. I totally see where NSF is coming from in that an Airbus or Boeing rating makes you more marketable, but there are many of us out there flying regional jets/tprops for a living with companies like Flybe, Eastern or BMIR who (shhh whisper it now) actually quite like it. I get to be based where I want, fly newish planes for a decent enough outfit with nice people and get home to my own bed at night. Many of my younger colleagues (including the FO I flew with this morning in fact) are off to BA or elsewhere and I am genuinely delighted for them. But for some of us a double Belfast or a Jersey and back will do nicely thanks and whether there are 30, 70 or 370 seats down the back bothers me not a jot. I just hope whatever we fly we get to keep the job we have as the oil price keeps rising.

[Deep and fast]

Chesty

Are the BMI rumours of 195 purchases new or just the old ones that have been doing the rounds for years? If it's the old rumours then it's 170 e jets and that ain't ever gonna happen. If it does then I will eat my hat.

D and F :8

ps I would feel a whole lot better with a bus rating at the mo, but the barbie is a good hands on machine.

[Cyclone733]

Well there's always KLM with the E170's coming in, so the type rating can't be a total loss.

Who wants to fly a jet anyway? The Q400's latest avionics upgrade will put all other aircraft types to shame. That's right.....coupled heading bugs:D

[Chesty Morgan]

D and F, I don't know. I only heard the rumour towards the end of last year.

But like I said who knows how airlines are going to react to the current situation so it might be worth keeping your hat in the freezer for a few years!:}

The 737 and A320 family are very common, for good reason, and have obviously proven to be reliable and efficient over the last couple of decades. But, how profitable are they going to be when oil hits $200 per barrel and the number of people using air travel declines? It's going to be easier to fill, and less expensive to operate, a smaller aircraft particularly on UK short haul and near European routes. Flybe have already proved this with the Q400 and, to quote the Chief Commercial Officer on a recent press release "Flybe is in rude financial health". Can't say the same for Easy now can we.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Chesty - the fascinating thing is that you can say easyJet is in 'rude financial health'. We will make a big profit this year, as we have every single year of our existence. Like any airline, and probably any company in the free-maket world economy right now, we are concerned about the massive rise in fuel price and the potential slowdown in customer demand. For what it is worth, I would love to return to my roots and fly regional jets out of Southampton or similar. I know you folks at FlyBe loathe your managers, but for me on the outside it seems they have done a great job in making your company what it is today. Salaries are low by industry standards, which must bring a tear of joy to your shareholders' eyes. Your load factors are also low in comparison with Ryanair's and ours - but your model sems to be able to cope with that. You have truly cracked the internal market around the UK which is good news. Time will tell if the harsh trading environment that is about to appear will be of benefit to you or not - I suspect not frankly. As a fellow professional, I wish no ill on any of my pilot colleagues - my comments are merely that right now the Emb 195 is not a great rating to have. As others have eloquently pointed out, we are in a fluid market place and it may be that the Embraer becomes the aircraft of choice. My point is that until that happens, and bearing in mind lead times from ordering to acquiring it will not happen any time soon, you are vulnerable to market shifts. Many years ago I used to fly a magnficent little turboprop called the Dornier 328 - an outstanding aircraft which in some ways was more adanced than the Airbus. The problem was no one else in the UK flew them and that made you an oddity. I eventually left and got a 'proper' job! However depressing it may be, and I fully understand that this will not be a popular view, the Emb 195 will not be regarded as a 'proper' jet with mainstream airlines. Just or fair -absolutely not! Nonetheless that is the way it is. You can have all the discussions you want but perceptions are everything. In the past I also used to fly the 146 - again the same problem arose in that it was not regarded widely as a 'proper' aircraft. The issue of whether these perceptions are fair or not is largely irrelevant, in that the people who employ pilots hold these views. I fully accept that this is only a time slice and in a few years the situation may change and every man and his dog will be begging for Embraer pilots - but not today!

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Oh, I don't know Norman. You forgot to mention that both the 737 and A320 are desperately overdue for replacement, will be commercially unsustainable anyway in the peak oil environment of the future, the replacements for which will almost certainly require a new type rating. In the 100 seat class, I'd say the EMB is the thinking man's hedge against the future that'll have old farts like you and I permanently grounded.

Why not suggest they join BALPA. That's bound to help, right?

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Leo - what an absolute delight to hear from you again old chap. I feared you had gone to that airport in the sky where all is blue and yellow, friendly Irishmen dispense free pints to their beloved aviators, whilst passing out days off and obscene bonuses to their highly-valued employees. But no - you are back in our midst, workiing hard I trust for your much misunderstood Lord and Master, and of course fighting the evils of organised labour.

And you may indeed be right about the future with the Embraer. But being the good union man you know me to me, it is the present that concerns me more. And in that department the Embraer is a long, long way behind a Boeing or an Airbus.

[JB10]

Any truth in the rumour of a London base opening soon?

London city, Southend :ok:

[Serenity]

I`d have thought Gatwick could be an option, already good routes and presence, they could make use of any newly available runway slots if Easy or BA decide to slim things down due oil prices.
Also through connections to BA long haul???

[S44]

Are there many of the ex-Bacon 145's still around or have the majority been sold off?

[cheesycol]

18 remaining in fleet from a Connect total of 28.