Merged: Boeing Revises 787 First Flight and Delivery Plans- Again [Archive]

Teal

10th Apr 2008, 05:21

A little more info from the venerable Ben Sandilands at crikey.com.au

Boeing Dreamliner hype still just a pipe dream

Ben Sandilands writes:

If you believed any of the hype about the Boeing Dreamliners of which up to 115 have been ordered or optioned by Qantas and Jetstar, you’ve been had. There will be no non-stop Dreamliners from Melbourne or Sydney to London for at least 10 years if ever. And there certainly won’t be the 15 early model Jetstar Dreamliners in service by next December as promised last October.
Worse still , if you are in the tourism industry and looking forward to the "game changing" innovations that this jet was hyped as bringing to allow non-stop routes from America and Asia into alternative gateways like Cairns, the Alice, Adelaide, the Gold Coast, Newcastle or Canberra, you too have been had.
Boeing this morning somewhat grudgingly admitted to yet another delay to the program, deferring the first flight that was supposed to have been no later than 30 September last year to no later than 31 December this year. The first jet that was rolled out on 7 July last year was then pulled apart for a rebuilding job that is still incomplete. There is no clarity as yet as to when Qantas will get any 787s nor any believable guarantees that a new delivery schedule will be met. Maybe late in 2010. Perhaps really in 2011. The most important version ordered by Qantas, the stretched 787-9 suitable for non-stop US flights from Queensland, is pushed back until "early" 2012, while the Japan special, the shorter range 787-3 ordered in large numbers by All Nippon and Japan Airlines, has been deferred indefinitely.
For Boeing to meet it latest promises it has to have an eight month flight certification program starting no later than year’s end. This is a tall order for a jet claimed to revolutionise aviation by being made out of plastic composites, with sections baked in a giant oven and glued and stapled together in as little as three days in final assembly.
The hype about the 787 is coming unstuck. No-one doubts the genius of the design, but doubts about the capacity of management to run the program, which sources major components from Japan, Italy and France as well as the US are becoming more vocal.
Among the problems so far is substandard work by contractors, a central wing box that had to be redesigned because it was bending too much, an incorrectly designed landing gear door, and what are most recently claimed to be issues with its electrical generators. Qantas needs the 787 to be on time to replace its aging Cityflyer 767s as a matter of some priority. These delays mean more pressure on its maintenance arrangements, whether at home or in Asia, to keep these jets safe and reliable for what looks like two or more years longer than Qantas ever anticipated.
With rumblings from Qantas in February about possible recourse to liquidated damages, which means cash, for any future 787 delays, it seems that Dreamliners will be delivering money to the airline well before they carry any passengers.
And if hints from various sources come true, it is money that Qantas may spend on another big order for Airbuses in the near future.

Jet_A_Knight

10th Apr 2008, 05:33

Press release from Boeing:

Boeing Revises 787 First Flight and Delivery Plans

Adds Schedule Margin to Reduce Risk of Further Delays First flight moved into fourth-quarter 2008

deliveries to begin third-quarter 2009

Production plan now targets approximately 25 787 deliveries in 2009

Company expresses confidence in plans; will work closely with customers to minimize disruption

No change to 2008 earnings guidance; strong 2009 EPS growth still expected

EVERETT, Wash., April 09, 2008 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced a revised plan for first flight and initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner that includes additional schedule margin to reduce risk of further delays on the program.

While significant progress has been made assembling Airplane #1, first flight is being rescheduled due to slower than expected completion of work that traveled from supplier facilities into Boeing's final assembly line, unanticipated rework, and the addition of margin into the testing schedule. The new delivery schedule is based on a more conservative production plan developed with the 787 partner team. That schedule now targets approximately 25 deliveries in 2009.

First flight of the all-new airplane will move into the fourth quarter of this year rather than the end of the second quarter, and first delivery is now planned for the third quarter of 2009 instead of first quarter.

Company officials expressed confidence in the new plan and the steps being taken to accelerate program performance.

"Over the past few months, we have taken strong actions to confront and overcome start-up issues on the program, and we have made solid progress," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson. "Nevertheless, the traveled work situation and some unanticipated rework have prevented us from hitting the milestones we laid out in January. Our revised schedule is built upon an achievable, high-confidence plan for getting us to our power-on and first-flight milestones. Also, while the fundamental technologies and design of the 787 remain sound, we have inserted some additional schedule margin for dealing with other issues we may uncover in testing prior to first flight and in the flight test program."

The company said in January it would be conducting a comprehensive assessment of its supply chain and production system capabilities to determine the details of the 787's flight test program and initial delivery profile. As a result of that assessment, the first-year delivery plan announced today will be followed by a more gradual ramp up to full-rate production than previously planned.

"We deeply regret the disruption and disappointment these changes will cause for our customers, and we will work closely with each of them to minimize the impact," said Carson. "We have taken significant action to improve supply chain and production system performance, such as our investment in Global Aeronautica, but based on our assessment, the prudent course is to proceed with a more gradual ramp up to full-rate production."

Pat Shanahan, 787 vice president and program manager, echoed Carson's comments about the progress being made in 787 factories.

"The work that remains to be done on Airplane #1 is well defined, and we can see our way to -- and have confidence in -- the new milestones we have set for it," said Shanahan. "We have addressed the major challenges that slowed our progress while trying to complete the primary structure -- the parts shortages, engineering changes, and manufacturing changes -- and we are well into the systems installation that is the precursor to putting power on the airplane for the first time. We have also worked closely with our partners to achieve higher levels of completion of their parts of subsequent airplanes, and we will continue to drive improvements in the supply chain and production system performance," he said.

For tracking program progress, Shanahan outlined a series of milestones that will occur before June 30: 787 static and fatigue structural test airplanes will move to their testing locations; Airplanes #3 and #4 will enter final assembly; hardware airworthiness qualifications will be complete; and power on will be achieved.

Shanahan also said the program has changed the timing of the introduction of two 787 derivatives. The 787-9, a larger variant of the airplane, will be the first derivative of the baseline 787 with delivery planned for early 2012. The 787-3, a shorter-range model previously slated to deliver in 2010, will now become the second derivative of the airplane family.

While research and development costs will likely increase as a result of the 787 schedule change, Boeing expects no change to 2008 earnings guidance. The company continues to expect strong earnings per share growth in 2009 and will provide complete 2009 financial guidance when it holds its first-quarter 2008 earnings conference call later this month. The outlook for the company's defense business and in-production commercial airplane programs remains strong.

Boeing will hold a conference call with Scott Carson and Pat Shanahan to discuss the 787 program today at 11:00 a.m. EDT, 8:00 a.m., PDT.

Transition Layer

10th Apr 2008, 07:10

captaintunedog777,

Care to elaborate? My post was simply a comment about the way QF management is neglecting the ageing QF mainline fleet at the expense of
Jetstar.

Don't know how that relates to my "handling of the big jets" - better get back to handling yours buddy.

horserun

10th Apr 2008, 20:23

Hey SS!
Hows longhaul treating you??

So what do you think this will do to air NZs employment over the next 2 years?

SkySurfin

10th Apr 2008, 23:40

Gday Horserun. Longhaul is really good.

I cant see this announcement changing the recruitment plans over the next few years. The 787-9 introduction is planned as a 1-for-1 replacement of the older fleets- 767/747. So at no time is there going to be any real increase in total fleet numbers or an increase in crew levels.

Im a bit out of the loop at the moment but have heard that there is quite a few guys on yes letters waiting for starts. It sounds like they have been told to expect a bit of a wait- Late this year/early next sort of thing. I wouldnt worry what is said though, crewing requirements seem to change at short notice. You just need to look at last year, AirNZ wasnt planning on employing again till 2009/10? and they ran about 6 or 7 interviews.

James4th

12th Apr 2008, 12:26

J* an all Airbus fleet and QF an all Boeing fleet. Well spotted! It makes real sense with the CCQ A320 to A380 only 13 days and much less for 320 to 330 and 330 to 380 ............

And all you chaps who want to get into J* I am sure they will run out of post 89 Blueshirted mates soon ..........

max autobrakes

13th Apr 2008, 02:26

What happens when the new CEO comes along, one who is not enamoured with someone elses WorkChoices bastard love child????
Let us see what happens when the JetStar business model is well and truely stress tested by an economic down turn then we'll see if this new age airline business model is truely the way of the future or just another short term business plan devised by executives to allow themselves to get rich from.:}

Keg

14th Apr 2008, 01:40

It makes real sense with the CCQ A320 to A380 only 13 days....

I always find statements like this as not reflecting the entirety of the story. If I were to be blunt I'd call it Airbus 'spin' as I know they're the ones that bang on about the short CCQ. As an example, does that 13 days include line flying? I wouldn't think so as this would be eight days on it's own. Five days for the type technical course and sims?

In addition, the term '13 working days' as utilised on the Airbus website is also a tad misleading. Six sectors plus a two sector check is about the QF norm for any conversion no matter what the previous experience is. On line operations for the A380 that will be a London return and then a LAX return. An eight to ten day trip followed by a four-six day trip. So the 13 working days is more likely to be closer to three plus weeks. Follow that by another 3-4 weeks for the sectors and the CCQ program is likely to be at least six weeks.

QGFT shows it as nine weeks during the introduction phase of the aeroplane for A330-A380. That said, they are all doing the 'long' technical type course. It will be interesting to see what the actual CCQ program looks like once the aircraft is 'mature'.

Going Boeing

24th Jun 2008, 10:26

(Everett, Wash., June 20, 2008) -- The Boeing Company [NYSE:BA] has completed the Power On sequence for the first 787 Dreamliner, marking the completion of the next major milestone on the path to first flight later this year.

Power On is a complex series of tasks and tests that bring electrical power onto the airplane and begin to exercise the use of the electrical systems. The 787 is a more-electric airplane with the pneumatic, or bleed air, system being totally replaced by electronics.

"The team has made great progress in bringing the bold innovation of the 787 to reality," said Pat Shanahan, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "There is plenty of work to be done between now and first flight, but with every step forward we grow more and more confident."

The Power On sequence began in early June with a series of pretest continuity checks to verify that the wiring installed in the airplane had been connected properly. Upon completion of those checks, the Boeing team plugged in an external power cart and slowly began to bring full power into each segment of the system, beginning with the flight deck displays. From that point forward, the pilot's controls were used to direct the addition of new systems to the power grid.

At each step of the testing, power is allowed to flow into one additional area and gauges are used to verify that the right level of electrical power reached the intended area. "We are very methodical in ensuring the integrity of the airplane's systems," said Shanahan. "In completing the Power On sequence, we have verified both that the electrical power distribution system is installed as designed and that it functions as intended."

Source : Boeing

787 Dreamliner Fatigue Airframe Departs Factory

(Everett, Wash., June 20, 2008) -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] yesterday moved the 787 Dreamliner designated for fatigue testing from the final assembly factory in Everett, Wash., to another production bay at the facility, where assembly work will continue. The move paves the way for the second flight-test airplane to advance to the next position in the production line today. The first Dreamliner remains in the nose-to-door position and the third flight-test airplane is in the first position. It will remain there until the fourth flight-test airplane is ready for assembly to begin later this month.

Source : Boeing

Taildragger67

24th Jun 2008, 13:47

CCQ A320 to A380 only 13 days and much less for 320 to 330 and 330 to 380

"Tell him he's dreamin'"

p-userpic.livejournal.com/37236261/1232513

ozaub

27th Jun 2008, 16:48

First post so be polite please.
I was one of thousands involved in design of B747, working at Seattle from 1966 to 1969. Delays like those happening on 787 would have bankrupt the Company. We used sliderules and early computers but kept to schedule; did the job in half the time taken for 787. We were called the Everett Incredibles and our motto was "Quality is King but the schedule is God".
Don't put money on latest schedule until Boeing has done the ultimate load tests - composite materials remain unpredictable

18-Wheeler

27th Jun 2008, 22:34

I was one of thousands involved in design of B747, working at Seattle from 1966 to 1969

Really?
I'd very much like to shake your hand if ever we meet.
I've got about 5,000 hours in 747's and it's by far the best aeroplane I've ever flown.
I've read the Joe Sutter book a couple of times and really appreciate the effort you guys put into making it so good.

Jet_A_Knight

28th Jun 2008, 01:24

18...Have a read of 'Widebody' by Clive Irving - if you haven't already.:ok:

Going Boeing

5th Jul 2008, 06:26

(Rome, July 2, 2008) -- Alenia Aeronautica, a Finmeccanica company, successfully completed destructive testing on the horizontal stabilizer of the Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliner. The test took place at Alenia's Pomigliano plant in Naples with Boeing engineers and representatives of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) in attendance. The stabilizer is made at the Alenia Aeronautica plant at Foggia in Italy's Puglia region.

Previous physical testing had shown that the horizontal stabilizer meets its certification requirement to withstand 150 percent of the maximum aerodynamic load it ever could encounter in flight. Once Alenia engineers proved that, they then tested the horizontal stabilizer to see just much load the horizontal stabilizer could withstand before failure. In that test, the structure did not break until well in excess of the required 150 percent of limit load. The destructive test was the culmination of seven months of testing conducted by Alenia and Boeing.

"This is quite an achievement," said Nazario Cauceglia, Alenia Aeronautica's chief technical officer. "The test validates the innovative multispar design concept and consolidates the spirit of cooperation established between Alenia and Boeing engineers on this difficult task, and on the entire 787 program."

"Successful completion of the 787 horizontal stabilizer failure test marks the culmination of an innovative design and development activity," said Randy Harley, vice president and general manager, 787 Engineering and Technology. "Working together, the 787 team has once again confirmed the power of an integrated partnership."

Previous tests at Pomigliano gauged the structure's capability to withstand various extremes in aerodynamic pressures, such as upward and downward deflection and extreme asymmetric loads.

With static testing complete, Alenia now will proceed to fatigue testing. Alenia engineers at Pomigliano will subject a complete horizontal stabilizer to repeated flexing, meant to demonstrate the stabilizer's ability to carry repeated operational load cycles representative of its design life. To obtain certification the tail will be tested to at least three times its design life. The testing program is slated to conclude with Boeing conducting a bird strike test at its facilities in the U.S.

Source : Boeing

QF22

5th Jul 2008, 10:40

That's great news, a bit late though me thinks !

The 787 rollout from the hangar last year was a big stunt !

The damn thing was supposed to be flying by now, but is in testing.

Look forward to when the dream becomes reality !

Going Boeing

2nd Feb 2009, 23:50

http://www.asd-network.com/data_news/ID19247_600.jpg
(Everett, Wash., January 30, 2009) -- Production of Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliners resumed yesterday with the join of the fifth airplane designated for flight test.

This airplane, designated ZA005, is the first to be powered with General Electric GEnx engines. The major assemblies were loaded in final body join over the past several days. The fuselage and wing joins occur simultaneously.

"This airplane signifies our return to a steady production rhythm," said Jack Jones, vice president of 787 Final Assembly and Change Incorporation.

"Sections are arriving in Everett at the completion levels committed by our partners and close to what is expected for mature production," Jones said. "The substantial progress made by our partners streamlines the assembly process, which is essential as we ramp up production."

Five of the six airplanes designated for flight test are now in varying stages of production. Power was restored earlier this week to the first flight-test airplane, ZA001, and production testing has resumed as the airplane prepares for first flight in the second quarter. Rolls-Royce engines are hung on ZA002, in the fourth and final production position in the factory. The third and fourth flight-test airplanes, ZA003 and ZA004, are in the third and second production positions, respectively.

Fastener rework is done on ZA001, nearly complete on ZA002 and progressing well on the third and fourth airplanes, Jones said. "We have applied the resources necessary to complete all the outstanding work on these airplanes and keep the production line moving forward."

Assemblies for the final flight-test airplane, ZA006, are in production at partner sites worldwide. In all, assemblies for 30 Dreamliners are in production at this time.

The 787 Dreamliner has orders for 895 airplanes from 58 airlines.

Source : Boeing

Going Boeing

23rd Mar 2009, 09:47

http://www.asd-network.com/data_news/ID19820_600.jpg

(Everett, Wash., March 19, 2009) -- The sixth and final Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliner designated for flight test is now undergoing final assembly in Everett, Wash. The airplane, designated ZA006, will be powered with General Electric GEnx engines.

Progress continues on the fleet. The first flight test airplane, ZA001, is getting its paint touched up this week before finishing factory testing. Power was brought onto the second airplane, ZA002, in late February and build verification tests are progressing well. Production work continues on ZA003, ZA004 and ZA005. In all, assemblies for 31 Dreamliners are currently in production throughout the supply chain.

The 787 Dreamliner has orders for 878 airplanes from 57 customers.

Source : Boeing

Jabawocky

24th Mar 2009, 00:36

No mention of the fact that when the recent hull pressure tests were done it leaked like a sieve?? :ooh:

And any mention of the fuel tanks being filled with water on the weekend to test for leaks etc..or whatever else you would do with H2O.............and large cracking sounds scared the poop out of them and they are looking into what has failed in the fuel cells :eek:.

Do not get me wrong, I am a pro Boeing person and I think the 787 will eventually be the aircraft of the future, and i know from first hand experience at what testing times you have when you are on the leading edge of development, but it would seem there are quite a lot more hurdles in the race to the finish....... and some of them are very well hidden at this point it seems.

So what is the story GB? Any clues or are my sources further in than yours? ;)

J:ok:

TBM-Legend

24th Mar 2009, 01:45

aviation rule #1

never buy the 'A' model of anything....:hmm:

even the B-17 took seven years to from a flying prototype to being "combat" ready...

Going Boeing

24th Mar 2009, 03:05

Jaba, I'd say that your sources are better placed than mine. I just pass on what is coming out of an aviation media web site - as with any media outlet, they just regurgitate management spin.

TBM, I totally agree. The "A" model aircraft always have faults which are designed out of later aircraft along with resolving weight issues. I'm told that QF ordered the A380 before SQ and consequently could have had the first aircraft into service. As QF normally hold onto an aircraft for in excess of 20 years, they didn't want to take delivery of an overweight aircraft and pay an excessive fuel penalty for that many years, so they arranged the delivery slots with the first aircraft being MSN14. SQ can write their aircraft off in as few as 3 years so that if their early aircraft deliveries are overweight, they can dispose of them relatively quickly. QF's fourth A380 (MSN26, due to be delivered May09) is the first of the "Wave 2" aircraft which are much more standarised in the production processes. The early "Wave 1" aircraft are quite individual wrt wiring/plumbing which does cause some issues for the engineers who have to maintain them.

Apologies for thread drift.

denabol

24th Mar 2009, 04:14

Jabawocky,

There was some fierce stuff in the second comment to this item in Plane Talking which sounds like inside info.
Qantas bites tongue over its Dreamliner nightmare - Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/03/18/qantas-bites-tongue-over-its-dreamliner-nightmare/)

However in the next item Sandilands goes on to ask if that comment might have been from Captain X who I've seen pop up and get flamed on Airliners.net

Then today he makes a reference to heat retention by composites in the undercarriage not being factored in.

Do the comments by Markus 45 about what has been going wrong stack up?

I want to fly on a Dreamliner but you have to wonder how it could take so long from building it to flying it.

Jabawocky

24th Mar 2009, 07:57

GB

My source is not on the 787 program, but walks past it literally everyday.........close enough lets say! :ok:

Denabol
As for the comments in post no.2 there well I know some of those comments are true, however I can not be sure of the comments about the Italians. Having said that, I deal with some Italian companies.......and.....he may be right there too! :ooh:

The first flight is due in April, and is likely to happen, I think towards the end of the month. I am sure they will be in the media then with plenty of hype.

I do believe they will make it work, its just a quantum leap from making tin planes so its a lot of learning the hard way. I can not remember the hours quoted but the man hours at Everett are remarkably low for assembly when it gets up to production. However they have spent their million man hour so far and nothing has flown yet so it will need to be pretty slick to build in order to win back all that. :uhoh:

J:ok:

denabol

24th Mar 2009, 10:14

Jabawocky,

I've been following Flightblogger for ages on the 787. It reported a short while ago that the first of them is back out of paint shop and to do the 'gauntlet' tests.

The Road to 787 First Flight - March 24 - Out of the paintshop - FlightBlogger - Aviation News, Commentary and Analysis (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/03/the-road-to-first-flight---mar.html)

In recent weeks either Ostrower on this blog or maybe someone else close to the action predicted the first flight could be back as far as the last two days of June.

Sounds like this might happen sooner.

Jabawocky

25th Mar 2009, 00:30

Mate, you never know what will actually happen....April, May...June.....who knows! I bet they never expected fuel cells to emit large cracking noises :eek: or for the leaking at a greater rate than they could pump in the fuse tests either.

I am sure it will all happen.......just have to be patient!

J

Going Boeing

5th May 2009, 00:15

http://www.asd-network.com/data_news/ID20356_600.jpg

(Everett, Wash., May 3, 2009) -- The Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliner that will fly later this quarter has moved to the flight line. Fuel testing - the first in the next phase of extensive checks the airplane must undergo - will begin in the next few days.

"We are making great progress, and moving ever-closer to first flight," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 Dreamliner program.

In recent weeks, the 787 (designated ZA001) completed a rigorous series of tests including build verification tests, structures and systems integration tests, landing gear swings and factory gauntlet, which is the full simulation of the first flight using the actual airplane. With Chief Pilot Mike Carriker at the controls, the simulation tested all flight controls, hardware and software. The simulation also included manual and automatic landings and an extensive suite of subsequent ground tests.

"These results give us confidence in our ability to move into further gauntlet testing using either ground power or the airplane's engines or auxiliary power unit. This is a significant milestone on the path to first flight," Fancher said.

All structural tests required on the static airframe prior to first flight also are complete. The final test occurred April 21 when the wing and trailing edges were subjected to their limit load - the highest loads expected to be seen in service. The load is about the same as the airplane experiencing 2.5 times the force of gravity.

"We continue to analyze the data, but the initial results are positive," Fancher said. On April 13, the leading edge of the wing was subjected to its limit load while the rest of the airplane was subjected to loads expected at cruise. And in September 2008, the "high blow" high-pressure test was completed on the static airframe. During that test, the airframe reached an internal pressure of 150 percent of the maximum levels expected to be seen in service - 14.9 lbs. per square inch (1.05 kilograms per centimeter) gauge (psig).

Ground vibration testing, which measures the airplane's response to flutter, also concluded on the second flight-test airplane, designated ZA002, at the end of this week. All the necessary structural tests required prior to first flight now are complete.

Now on the flight line, ZA001 will undergo additional airplane power and systems tests as well as engine runs. After completing final systems checks and high-speed taxi tests, the airplane will be ready for first flight, which is on schedule for later this quarter.

The 787 Dreamliner has orders for 886 airplanes from 57 customers.

Company Center : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Aircraft that have the right look, fly well (unlike the Dugong).

Transition Layer

5th May 2009, 01:44

As posted by Jabawocky on another thread (http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/368764-qantas-cancel-787-a-2.html#post4905428)

Not looking good :eek:

Going Boeing

11th Jun 2009, 02:22

http://www.asd-network.com/data_news/ID20816_600.jpg

(Everett, Wash., June 8, 2009) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) has completed the intermediate gauntlet phase of testing on the first 787 Dreamliner.

During the testing, pilots and engineers simulated multiple scenarios using all airplane systems as if the aircraft were in flight, including power, avionics and flight controls. Test scenarios ranged from standard flights to single and multiple systems failures during flights.

Intermediate gauntlet testing included about one week's worth of operations on the airplane and hundreds of discrete test conditions.

"The team has done an incredible job supporting an exhaustive test regimen," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "I couldn't be more proud.

"We will continue to take a hard look at the results, make adjustments and finish up our testing so we can get to first flight."

Company Center : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Going Boeing

17th Jun 2009, 00:38

http://www.asd-network.com/data_news/ID20925_600.jpg

(Everett, Wash., June 15, 2009) -- The second Boeing (NYSE: BA) 787 Dreamliner has moved to the flight line to begin fuel testing. This is the second of six 787s being used in the all-new airplane's flight-test program.

"Momentum continues to build with each milestone achieved," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 Dreamliner program.

Each of the six flight-test airplanes will be used for a specific set of tests during the flight-test program. This airplane, designated ZA002, will focus on systems performance. Like its predecessor, ZA001, this airplane has successfully completed a rigorous series of tests while still in the factory. Fuel testing began immediately upon the airplane entering the fuel dock.

ZA002 features the livery of the Dreamliner's launch customer, ANA (All Nippon Airways) of Japan.

"ANA will be the first to fly the 787 Dreamliner in commercial service," Fancher noted. "We are honored to fly in ANA livery throughout the flight-test program as a tribute to our partnership in bringing this all-new airplane to market."

Company Center : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

myshoutcaptain

17th Jun 2009, 00:50

Thanks for keeping us up to date Boeing.

It's my shout.

turtlehead

17th Jun 2009, 17:55

:hmm:PARIS AIR SHOW: Final countdown begins for 787's maiden flight
By Jon Ostrower

Boeing (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/boeing.html) has targeted 20 June for its formal flight readiness review on the 787 Dreamliner (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/boeing%20787.html). The review will assess the preparations for the first flight of the 787, expected by the end of this month.
Pat Shanahan, Boeing vice-president and general manager of airplane programmes, outlined the final path to first flight, further affirming his company's commitment to flying by the close of June.
Following the readiness review, prototype ZA001 will move into final gauntlet testing, which is believed to be scheduled for two days, according to 787 programme sources.
Shanahan cites the "hour-by-hour" flight-test plan that dictates the 787's schedule. The gauntlet will put the first 787 through a final series of closed loop tests that will continue to validate the functionality and reliability of aircraft systems.
Shanahan says the aircraft will then move into low- and high-speed taxi tests and will "go fly" some time before the clock strikes midnight on 30 June.

From Flightglobal daily News

TH:ok:

justanotherflyer

17th Jun 2009, 21:46

Boeing and Dreamliner Troubles - Print - Portfolio.com (http://www.portfolio.com/business-news/portfolio/2009/04/22/Boeing-and-Dreamliner-Troubles?print=true)

Comprehensive analysis.

Brian Abraham

18th Jun 2009, 06:34

From Aviation International News today

Qatar could scrap 787 orders as Al Baker berates Boeing

By: Stephen Pope
June 17, 2009

Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker is threatening to pull the plug on a contract for up to 60 Boeing 787s due to what appear to be serious objections to the way the long-delayed program is being handled.

“Unfortunately, Boeing is not run by commercial people,” Al Baker told a group of journalists here yesterday afternoon. “Boeing is run by bean counters and lawyers. We have some serious issues with them, and if they do not play ball with us they will be in for a serious surprise.”

Al Baker acknowledged that the issues he spoke of are related to Qatar’s order for the 787. “They’re not dealing with this in a professional manner,” he said. Qatar has an order for 60 Boeing 787s, 30 of them firm and 30 options. The first are due for delivery to the Doha airline in 2011.

Al Baker declined to be more specific about the issues Qatar has with Boeing, but because he had not mentioned them publicly before yesterday it seemed to indicate that relations between the companies may have become strained quite recently, perhaps even here at the show. Qatar at the last moment canceled a press conference here yesterday, which was widely thought to have been a new order announcement. There had been indications that this could be rescheduled for today, but this now seems to be in doubt.

The Qatar chief executive was asked specifically whether the airline could walk away from its 787 order if the problems being encountered with Boeing aren’t resolved. “Yes, we can always walk away from a deal if the delays are unacceptable,” he said.

The Boeing 787 has been dogged by setbacks related to difficulties in managing the supply chain, changes to the design, weight increases and supplier-related issues. As a result, the airplane is almost two years late. First flight is expected later this month, with entry into service now targeted for 2010.

Asked about the Qatar CEO’s comments, a Boeing spokesman said the company does not publicly discuss customer-related issues.

Asked whether Boeing’s idea to study a new wing for the 777 would entice Qatar to consider placing an order with Boeing, Al Baker said flatly that such a move comes “too late” to have an impact on Qatar’s choices for how to expand its mainline fleet. The airline has placed an order for 80 Airbus A350XWBs and yesterday strengthened its relationship with the European airframe builder with a firm order for 24 A320-family airliners.

Joker 10

18th Jun 2009, 09:13

Bill Boeing a cautious careful man, his culture lives on in Boeing today.

A lot different from the opposition , Hyundai of the skies

SIUYA

18th Jun 2009, 09:26

Geez Joker 10..........

[the] Hyundai of the skies :}

That's not very nice!! It's funny though! :)

Still, when the 'Hyundai of the skies' is the preferred option of the Gulf's rapidly-becoming best-known (and least-liked) 'bogan' Akbar Al-Baker at Qatar Airways, then I guess it's not a bad description! :}

You gotta give the 'Hyundai of the skies' credit though! It's provided evidence that it can produce some REALLY REALLY durable models, as has been proved time and time again from some of the the severe in-service operational 'torture tests' that some of those poor airframes have been put through over the past few years by some Gulf-based operators! :ok:

Maybe Volkswagen, or perhaps Hummer, or even D9 bulldozer of the skies is more appropriate? After all durability seems to be the key issue here!

porch monkey

18th Jun 2009, 10:07

Dunno mate, I reckon there's at least one A330 crew who would love to be here to debate the durability issue........:confused:

Anyhow, the 20k 737 700 LGW has the hyundai mantle around here.........:ok:

SIUYA

18th Jun 2009, 10:49

porch monkey..........

Dunno about that either.........'mate'. Ready-fire-aim perhaps on your part?

If you're referring to the latest A330 disaster then here's a hint...........have another look at my post. You may notice after a bit of the good old 'RTFQ' that I actually referred to the in-service durability-testing of the so-called Hyundais:

...by some Gulf-based operators! :rolleyes:

No prizes for guessing where you work though with the type/model you refer to! :ok:

HotDog

18th Jun 2009, 11:04

Hyundai of the skies

Since this thread has now introduced an analogy to motor cars, I would personally prefer a Renault to a GM Hummer.:ok:

SIUYA

18th Jun 2009, 11:57

HotDog......

Sadly, GM Hummer ain't no more.............

the Hummer brand and all its manufacturing facilities and know-how will be sold to Communist China

Source: LEITNER: Hummer sale to China - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/05/hummer-sale-to-china/)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you ex sandpit..............777 perhaps?

Jabawocky

18th Jun 2009, 12:33

Back to the 787, my inside source has been finding it hard to get any news, let alone reliable.....especially so as the last few proposed dates came and went with nothing!:suspect:

Its so tight lipped over there, I doubt anyone knows!:cool:

Have asked the question.....see what the morning brings!

Jabawocky

18th Jun 2009, 12:42

Hyundai of the skies

Gotta agree with you there Joker, but did I happen to see that posted elsewhere at 4.31pm EST by another well known identity.;)

J

porch monkey

19th Jun 2009, 09:13

I was aware of your reference. Depends on your overall view of the term "durability" I guess. Anyhow, as you no doubt know, the LGW 20k 700 wins the Hyundai award hands down......:{

an3_bolt

19th Jun 2009, 11:15

Hyundai of the skies

I have always known them as Sky Skoda's :ok:

tjc

20th Jun 2009, 13:44

Boeing Has Another Full Week Of 787 Tests

Friday, June 19, 2009
AviationWeek.com (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/)
Boeing is planning another week of 787 tests as ZA001 counts down to first flight, expected June 28.
Counting down Boeing’s long task lists leads to June 28 being a likely target for the first flight of ZA001, the first flight test article in the 787 program.
Boeing will run through a series of six major ground tests from Friday through Sunday, June 21. They are broken into blocks of three. The first covers cover primary flight control system “axis” testing, which is to finish Saturday. The other focuses on functionality check out tests of the flight control management system and should wrap up by Sunday afternoon.
The six tests were originally set to be completed by Saturday evening, a clear indication of how volatile the schedule is as Boeing pushes to get ZA001 into the air by the end of June.
VP Pat Shanahan, the general manager of Boeing’s commercial airplane programs, is set to hold a flight readiness review in Everett, Wash., on Saturday.
With that review done and the last of the ground test blocks completed, the airplane will enter the last major phase of its testing — final gauntlet.
That 48-hour procedure will push ZA001 through a continuous series of final system checkouts using a software load developed to address minor issues that arose during the first two test phases — factory and intermediate gauntlet.
It is expected to get under way June 22 and most likely will be followed by a two-day analysis session.
When flight managers are satisfied with that analysis, ZA001 will be ready to roll under the power of its Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines for the first time. It does so in low- and high-speed taxi tests. The first are cautious approaches to the fact that the nearly 400,000 lb. aircraft is moving under its own power.
The second will bring it to Vr — rotation speed — in which the nose wheel lifts off the runway slightly but the main landing gears stay put. Those tests, all conducted at Paine Field near the Everett factory, should only take one day.
Most likely Boeing will then take a full day for final preparation work before proceeding to the first flight. Following this tentative schedule, that will put first flight on Sunday, June 28. But, as with so much in the program, the schedule could slip.
The first flight is slated for 5.5 hours, but indications are it could go longer. The airplane will land at Boeing Field in Seattle, from which the full flight test program will be conducted.

dragon man

23rd Jun 2009, 21:24

In light of the overnight announcment of yet another delay in its test flight where is this going to end up and what will Qantas do? Any thoughts please.

mmciau

23rd Jun 2009, 22:16

I would suggest that Boeing themselves would not be able to say with any accuracy when ZA001 will be ready. It depends on just how deep and comprehensive the correction to the wing box region will need to be to satisfy the FAA .

Mike McInerney

Jabawocky

23rd Jun 2009, 23:00

Story that I was given this morning was after a crew meeting which announced tickets for USD$10 to watch the first flight...............they then announced the delay.:uhoh:

Some were saying it may even be related to the repairs after the hydraulic failure that have been the cause for concern. which would not be a good thing to blab in the media. So whether its a genuine structural modification or a repair procedure gone wrong, its not good for the image of the 787. And there are still lots of very tight lips on the factory floor:oh:

But all things in perspective, the A380 had some pretty good and some spectacular cockups delaying its launch and delivery.

Going Boeing

24th Jun 2009, 00:04

Boeing Postpones 787 First Flight
EVERETT, Wash., June 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today announced that first flight of the 787 Dreamliner will be postponed due to a need to reinforce an area within the side-of-body section of the aircraft.

The need was identified during the recent regularly scheduled tests on the full-scale static test airplane. Preliminary analysis indicated that flight test could proceed this month as planned. However, after further testing and consideration of possible modified flight test plans, the decision was made late last week that first flight should instead be postponed until productive flight testing could occur.

First flight and first delivery will be rescheduled following the final determination of the required modification and testing plan. It will be several weeks before the new schedule is available. The 787 team will continue with other aspects of testing on Airplane #1, including final gauntlet testing and low-speed taxiing. Work will also continue on the other five flight test aircraft and the subsequent aircraft in the production system.

Scott Carson, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes said a team of experts has already identified several potential solutions.

"Consideration was given to a temporary solution that would allow us to fly as scheduled, but we ultimately concluded that the right thing was to develop, design, test and incorporate a permanent modification to the localized area requiring reinforcement. Structural modifications like these are not uncommon in the development of new airplanes, and this is not an issue related to our choice of materials or the assembly and installation work of our team," Carson said.

Boeing's financial guidance will be updated to reflect any impact of these changes when the company issues its second quarter 2009 earnings report in July.

BOEING777X

24th Jun 2009, 05:34

A summary of the conference call can be found here (http://bit.ly/19rfFY).

turtlehead

24th Jun 2009, 17:01

Boeing delays 787 first flight again, cites excessive stress in 'upper wing join area'

Wednesday June 24, 2009

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Boeing delayed 787 first flight, expected to take place this week, again yesterday, citing "a series of relatively small areas" on both sides of the aircraft's body in the "upper wing join area" that registered stress levels during static testing that "exceeded expectations."
Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson said the manufacturer determined Friday that without reinforcing the areas, the 787 would have to be operated in "such a small envelope" that it "wouldn't be worth it" to start a flight test program that would "not [be] particularly useful to prepare the aircraft for certification." The company did not set a new target date for first flight, saying only that it will announce a new schedule in "several weeks." It did not say whether or how long first delivery to ANA, slated for the 2010 first quarter, would be delayed.
The latest postponement marks the sixth time Boeing has delayed the Dreamliner program and comes after several months in which top executives repeatedly insisted that first flight would take place by the end of the second quarter (ATWOnline, May 6) (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=16514). At last week's Paris Air Show, Carson reiterated that the company was "absolutely committed" to first flight by the end of this month and VP and GM-Airplane Programs Pat Shanahan told reporters that first flight was "imminent" (ATWOnline, June 17) (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=16921)
"When we were at Paris last week. . .we were of a mind that the aircraft could enter the flight test program," Carson told analysts and reporters yesterday. He revealed that the "anomaly" in question first was discovered "several weeks ago," but until Friday "we thought we had a solution that would allow us to move to the flight test program."
VP and GM-787 Program Scott Fancher said there are 18 1-2-sq.-in. areas on each side of the aircraft that need reinforcement to reduce stress levels. Boeing is working with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which manufactures the 787's wings, and Fuji Heavy Industries, which handles the detailed design and assembly of the center wing box and its integration, to determine a fix. "We're talking about a relatively small number of parts and a relatively simple modification," Fancher said, adding that the solution will likely be "a handful of parts that you can literally hold in your hand that can be added to the structure to provide stress reinforcement." He noted that "several solutions" are being considered.
Once developed, the new parts first will have to be put on the static test aircraft and then on the flight test aircraft. Boeing will need to "proceed with additional [ground] testing" with the new parts before first flight, Shanahan said. Fancher noted that the modifications can be done on the initial flight test aircraft "out in the field" and will be done on all 787s in assembly wherever the aircraft is in the production process.
The fix will be designed to "be retrofitted into the aircraft," Carson explained. He added that while the problem is a "disappointment," it is "quite manageable," and Shanahan emphasized that "this is a structural reinforcement issue, not an issue with materials or workmanship."

by Aaron Karp

turtlehead

24th Jun 2009, 17:03

BREAKING: Boeing postpones 787 first flight - FlightBlogger - Aviation News, Commentary and Analysis (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/06/breaking-boeing-postpones-787.html)

TH

BOEING777X

24th Jun 2009, 21:28

^

Welcome to yesterday :ok:

Bootstrap1

25th Jun 2009, 06:53

I still think the 787 has the potential to bring Boeing down.

The management of the whole program need a good reaming. If Joe

Average on the shop floor made a similar mistake he would be out the

door in no time. The halfwits running boeing should all be sacked.

One week before the first flight and the are lying to the world knowing

full well it wasn't going to happen.

Truly Boeing have had there day

stubby jumbo

25th Jun 2009, 07:14

agree.

The average punter is fairly aviation savvy these days. Pick up any paper and you see in in their -delay -delay then the reasons-stress, not ready blah blah.

I'm no shrink but all of this will sit on the subconscious of pax for a long time.

This has /will be a PR disaster for Boeing.

Even Obama would struggle putting a "spin" on this program.

The public have already lost confidence in the "plastic fantastic"-WET DREAM LINER.

If Airbus have learnt anything from this and the inexcusable delays on the a-380 they will launch the A-350-ON TIME. Watch the orders roll in.

I don't want to go back to the past but -Dixon, Jackson and Gregg should be castigated for not signing up to the 777-ER when they had their chance in 2003 when it did the promo trip round Oz. . It was/is the right aircraft for QF.:ugh:

nick2007

26th Jun 2009, 03:15

If Joe Average on the shop floor made a similar mistake he would be out the door in no time. The halfwits running boeing should all be sacked.

And replaced with...?? Joe Average?

Really, listen to yourselves! You sound like a bunch of ...Airbus haters! :)

The 787 is not only a big change for Boeing in terms of structural composition, but also project management. In the same way as the A380 was a radical change for Airbus, Boeing have contracted much of the detail design/manufacture outside of Seattle. And it's not a bad move.

I can't think of any aircraft projects this size that aren't without their teething problems. Boeing have to choose their words carefully as a lot of eyes are watching them at this crucial stage, so they're hardly going to speak their mind about this.

Makes me think, if the structural design problem was with one of the Wing control surfaces (locally design & manufactured), I'd say we would get some very different responses on this forum. :)

BOEING777X

29th Jun 2009, 04:59

The 787 is not only a big change for Boeing in terms of structural composition, but also project management.

Ultimately, it is these two areas that has caught Boeing several times and thats why the airplane has been delayed so much (http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/06/29/boeing-787/).

Wod

29th Jun 2009, 08:06

I don't want to go back to the past but -Dixon, Jackson and Gregg should be castigated for not signing up to the 777-ER when they had their chance in 2003 when it did the promo trip round Oz. . It was/is the right aircraft for QF.:ugh:

I know a lot of people thought 777 instead of A380, rather than 787.

But these things are not decided on promo trips. The rumour mill always tilts to the latest set of promoters in town, but in the airline/manufacturer world presentations and analysis are ongoing.

And hindsight is a wonderful thing.:ok:

Time was, QF had Concorde options.

noip

29th Jun 2009, 10:05

Wod,

Understand, however I'll go with Stubby Jumbo.

N

Jabawocky

1st Jul 2009, 12:19

Well the story is not good as far as I can tell. My source had a few beers with oune of the engineering team, and its a structural problem with a section of the wing box area that is part of the new wing desgn that allows all the flex in the new wing.:eek:

Whatever the rework is..... sounds huge to me!:uhoh:

So as somone else posted above..... the butt covering and "fibbing" about the delays sort of says it all really.

Things are very tight lipped in Everett!

BOEING777X

7th Jul 2009, 19:24

And now Boeing buys out (http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/07/boeing-vought/) the stake in the 787 held by Vought (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=737).

empacher48

7th Jul 2009, 23:07

I see the 787 completed taxi testing this morning NZ time, so I guess its not sitting idle waiting for the repairs to be made.

FlightBlogger - Aviation News, Commentary and Analysis (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger)

BOEING777X

10th Jul 2009, 15:28

While the 787 starts its taxi tests, it seems the 747-8F may fly first (http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/). :}

Jabawocky

11th Jul 2009, 11:01

Apart from things weighing a bit more than the old overhead cranes were meant to lift....:ooh:, the 748 has been progressing well.

This is first hand info from the line, well one large section of it anyway, and more reliable than the 787 info, but apart from some draing and fastener issues and one set of drawings that were "forgotten", its going pretty well and some sections ahead of their BAR LINE or not far from it.:D

The way its going it will be a race to the finish!:ok:

Going Boeing

22nd Jul 2009, 23:09

http://www.asd-network.com/data_news/ID21990_600.jpg

(Everett, Wash., July 21, 2009) -- The fifth Boeing [NYSE:BA] 787 Dreamliner flight test airplane has been unveiled sporting a special Boeing livery.

Painted white with blue accents, the new livery incorporates visual and color elements from the distinctive blue-and-white Boeing Commercial Airplanes livery seen on the first 787 flight test airplane and other new commercial models. The simplified paint scheme will be applied to the three remaining unpainted flight test airplanes (Nos. 3, 4 and 6). Airplane No. 2 has been painted in the colors of launch customer ANA of Japan.

The modified livery, which saves time and expense compared to the full Boeing livery, will remain on the airplane until the flight test program is completed and it is refurbished and delivered to a customer.

The airplane's two GEnx engines have been temporarily removed and returned to GE Aviation so that planned minor improvements can be made.

Company Center : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Willoz269

22nd Jul 2009, 23:21

Not sure what sounds worse....the fact that the fault is bigger than first thought or the fact that the manufacturer doesn't really know what its different departments are doing!!!

Boeing news | Boeing 787 may not fly this year | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2009513152_boeing22.html)

Going Boeing

22nd Jul 2009, 23:21

http://www.asd-network.com/data_news/ID21981_600.jpg

(Everett, Wash., July 21, 2009) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) took a major step closer this week toward completing the assembly of the first 747-8 Freighter as mechanics at the factory in Everett, Wash. loaded the forward and aft fuselage sections to join with the wing and center section.

"It is exciting to see this airplane taking shape," said Mo Yahyavi, vice president and general manager of the 747 Program. "The 747-8 is the largest commercial jet airplane we have assembled. This final body join provides us the first real look at the size of the 747-8 Freighter."

The 747-8 Freighter is 250 feet, 2 inches (76.3 m) long, which is 18 feet and 4 inches (5.6 m) longer than the 747-400 Freighter. The stretch provides customers with 16 percent more revenue cargo volume compared to its predecessor. That translates to four additional main-deck pallets and three additional lower-hold pallets.

The 747-8 Freighter is the new high-capacity 747 that will give cargo operators the lowest operating costs and best economics of any freighter airplane while providing enhanced environmental performance. Boeing has secured 78 orders from leading cargo operators for the new 747-8 Freighter. Cargolux, Nippon Cargo Airlines, AirBridgeCargo Airlines, Atlas Air, Cathay Pacific, Dubai Aerospace Enterprise, Emirates SkyCargo, Guggenheim and Korean Air all have placed orders for the airplane.

Company Center : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

BOEING777X

23rd Jul 2009, 04:00

A summary of the earnings call can be found here (http://bit.ly/qymV1) for those who are interested. :)

tasdevil.f27

20th Aug 2009, 09:40

YouTube - Hitler's 787 Delayed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF_P77VEPKA&feature=player_embedded)

Syd eng

20th Aug 2009, 09:49

Great Vid.

Wod

20th Aug 2009, 12:35

Except it's an imitation, of an imitation.

I think I first saw it concerning Man United and Ronaldo, a few years ago, and I'm not sure if that was the first case. Next, I think, it was a beer ad.

Certainly not new.

Syd eng

20th Aug 2009, 21:18

There is another one where hew loses his Xbox online access too.

The Green Goblin

21st Aug 2009, 01:40

They reckon she'll be aloft by Mo-vember :ok:

training wheels

23rd Aug 2009, 00:56

I don't know whether this has been posted before, but here are photos from a media tour of the 787 Assembly plant.

Media tour of Boeing 787 control center | Photos from seattlepi.com (http://www.seattlepi.com/photos/gallery.asp?SubID=4796&page=1&GTitle=Media%20tour%20of%20Boeing%20787%20control%20center&pubdate=4/30/2009)

The 787 is certainly much nicer on the eyes than the A380. Also in the series of photos is the 747-8.

BTW, I read somewhere that the delay in the 787's first flight is due to a problem with where the wing joins the body. Can anyone elaborate on this? It sounds like a pretty major issue.

TWT

23rd Aug 2009, 04:31

Read link in post #84

Short_Circuit

23rd Aug 2009, 05:28

BTW, I read somewhere that the delay in the 787's first flight is due to a problem with where the wing joins the body. Can anyone elaborate on this? It sounds like a pretty major issue.

The problem with the wing section is evident in the pic #2, it is only held on with plastic tape!;)

stillalbatross

24th Aug 2009, 00:32

Fuselage has got ripples in it in 7 of the early aircraft. Unsure of the fix. There is no delay to the program any more as Boeing say they have no idea when it will ever fly. Have a look at the latest on Bloomberg, Boeing decided the markets didn't need to know about the fuselage problems as the first flight was put on hold indefinately anyway, from other issues. The US stockmarket regulator didn't agree. I'll find the link, they are possibly about to be fined for not informing the market what a mess the 787 program is in.

Chimbu chuckles

24th Aug 2009, 02:06

The fix is build it out of metal and rivets - oh then it would be a 777:ok:

Tankengine

24th Aug 2009, 11:53

Or build the fuse out of metal and the performance bit, the wing, out of composite!:ok:

Then it would be an A350!:E

Brian Abraham

28th Aug 2009, 00:32

Seems there is movement at the station Boeing Sets New 787 Schedule : AIN Online (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/-9f82108427)

Boeing Sets New 787 Schedule

By: Gregory Polek
August 27, 2009

Boeing announced today that it expects the first flight of the 787 Dreamliner to occur by the end of this year and first delivery in the fourth quarter of 2010.

The new schedule reflects the previously announced need to reinforce an area within the side-of-body section of the aircraft, along with the addition of several weeks of schedule margin to reduce flight test and certification risk, according to the company. Original plans called for an eight- to nine-month flight test schedule. If Boeing meets this latest projection, the airplane will reach the market some two and a half years later than first planned.

Boeing now projects achieving a production rate of 10 airplanes per month in late 2013.

“This new schedule provides us the time needed to complete the remaining work necessary to put the 787’s game-changing capability in the hands of our customers,” said Boeing chairman, president and CEO Jim McNerney. “The design details and implementation plan are nearly complete, and the team is preparing airplanes for modification and testing.”

The 787 team working the side-of-body reinforcement has completed initial testing and is finalizing design details of new fittings expected to ensure full structural integrity of the joint. Engineers will repeat the static test procedure that uncovered the weakness and fully analyze the results before first flight. Boeing will also perform fatigue testing on stringer components to validate the long-term durability of the modification.

Workers have prepared the first 787 test airplane and static test unit for the new fittings. The company said it expects to begin installation “within the next few weeks.”

Boeing has concluded that the initial flight-test airplanes carry no commercial market value beyond the development effort, because of the inordinate amount of rework and unique and extensive modifications made to those aircraft. Therefore, it will reclassify costs previously recorded for the first three flight-test airplanes from program inventory to research and development, resulting in an estimated non-cash, pre-tax charge of $2.5 billion, or $2.21 per share, against third-quarter results. The company said the charge will not affect its future cash outlook.

stillalbatross

1st Sep 2009, 01:40

Except the shares have gone from $100 to under $30 and most analysts have changed to a neutral or sell and they just fired the head of the Commercial division and thats the 5th change to the delivery date. There are still a mountain of problems to overcome.

The A350 will more likely get delivered first.

porch monkey

1st Sep 2009, 02:02

I've got $100 that says you're wrong about the A350 being delivered first. AB haven't delivered ANY a/c on time yet......

Jabawocky

1st Sep 2009, 07:57

Scott Carson announced his retirement at the end of the year. 41 years at Boeing!

J

Foie gras

4th Sep 2009, 11:34

787's built in China?

An interesting article in the Daily Finance:-

Will Boeing move to Beijing? -- DailyFinance (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/31/will-boeing-move-to-beijing/)

mingalababya

4th Sep 2009, 12:03

Airbus has already done this with the first Chinese assembled A320 flying in May this year.

First A320 assembled in China performs maiden flight (http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre/pressreleases/pressreleases_items/09_05_18_a320_maiden_flight_china.html)

breakfastburitto

5th Sep 2009, 03:57

[quote]
Will Boeing delay the 787 Dreamliner another two years?

My recent post (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/14/losing-track-of-boeing-787-dreamliners-failures/) about Boeing's (BA (http://finance.aol.com/quotes/the-boeing-company/ba/nys)) leak that it had shut down Alenia, one of its suppliers in Naples, Italy, encouraged several people close to the company to contact me. One of these people, who requested to remain anonymous, told me he spent two years working as a consultant with the 787 program across several of Boeing's systems and manufacturing organizations.

While I have only exchanged emails with him and spoken to him once, his concerns about the 787 program seem plausible. And he estimates that the 787's problems could take at least another two years to solve.

How so? My source told me that there are significant problems with a number of systems for the 787 -- news of which has so far not reached the public. The delays to date have been blamed on a variety of ills -- including suppliers not meeting deadlines, an insufficient number of fasteners, a machinist strike, problems with the 787's wing assembly -- which is causing problems where the wing attaches to the fuselage and most recently, fuselage skin wrinkling.

But I was stunned by his claim that several of the systems -- which are being made by Hamilton Sundstrand (HS) -- a United Technologies (UTX (http://finance.aol.com/quotes/united-technologies-corporation/utx/nys)) subsidiary -- are not working. He identified the the 787's Environmental Control System (ECS) (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_4_07/article_02_1.html), which is intended to pressurize the aircraft, as a particular problem. He says he believes there is not a technological solution to the problem.

When I asked Boeing for comment, a spokesperson said, "The 787's systems are working, including the environmental control system that pressurizes the airplane. We are continuing to improve and mature the systems, as is normal for a development program." A Hamilton Sundstrand spokesperson told me that he had no knowledge of such problems.

However, my source told me he spoke just yesterday with an engineer employed by a current Boeing partner who confirmed that this problem has not been solved. In addition to the ECS problems, he says that the 787's electrical system has not lived up to expectations and several redesigns are necessary before the aircraft enters into service.
I don't know what my source's motivations would be for providing this information, but given all the delays and leaks, I thought it worth reporting.

There is a deeper problem with the 787 and that has to do with Boeing's management style. As I wrote in my book, Boeing has a long history of command-and-control leadership -- where top executives tell everyone else what to do. Under its new CEO, Jim McNerney, Boeing had adopted a so-called Transformational Leadership (TL) approach which empowered workers to make decisions, have ownership, and to take responsibility for success and/or failure.

TL was behind Boeing's radical decision to outsource 60 percent of the 787 design and manufacturing to its suppliers. In the past, Boeing had given its suppliers very detailed specifications. But with the 787, Boeing let the suppliers do the design and manufacturing. The first manager of the 787, Mike Bair, was a transformational leader.

Bair took the blame for the 787's delays and Boeing replaced Bair with Pat Shanahan from Boeing's defense unit. As such, Boeing reverted back to its old command-and-control style of leadership. My source claims that when Boeing spent three days in the spring of 2008 with HS, the supplier of the 787's electrical systems, Boeing issued orders to its supplier about how it wanted HS to fix the problems.

Rather than listen to what HS thought would work, Shanahan's team issued orders. And according to my source, HS agreed to what Shanahan wanted even though it did not believed that his ideas or time-line would work.

This story, if true, is deeply troubling because it suggests that Boeing could be panicking and reverting back to its old style of working -- but this time without sufficient technical know-how to make the right decisions. If Boeing is suffering from this deeper management problem, delivering the 850 787 Dreamliners that the airlines have ordered is going to be an even bigger nightmare than I had previously thought.

breakfastburrito

5th Sep 2009, 04:05

Will Boeing delay the 787 Dreamliner another two years?

My recent post (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/14/losing-track-of-boeing-787-dreamliners-failures/) about Boeing's (BA (http://finance.aol.com/quotes/the-boeing-company/ba/nys)) leak that it had shut down Alenia, one of its suppliers in Naples, Italy, encouraged several people close to the company to contact me. One of these people, who requested to remain anonymous, told me he spent two years working as a consultant with the 787 program across several of Boeing's systems and manufacturing organizations.

While I have only exchanged emails with him and spoken to him once, his concerns about the 787 program seem plausible. And he estimates that the 787's problems could take at least another two years to solve.

How so? My source told me that there are significant problems with a number of systems for the 787 -- news of which has so far not reached the public. The delays to date have been blamed on a variety of ills -- including suppliers not meeting deadlines, an insufficient number of fasteners, a machinist strike, problems with the 787's wing assembly -- which is causing problems where the wing attaches to the fuselage and most recently, fuselage skin wrinkling.

But I was stunned by his claim that several of the systems -- which are being made by Hamilton Sundstrand (HS) -- a United Technologies (UTX (http://finance.aol.com/quotes/united-technologies-corporation/utx/nys)) subsidiary -- are not working. He identified the the 787's Environmental Control System (ECS) (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_4_07/article_02_1.html), which is intended to pressurize the aircraft, as a particular problem. He says he believes there is not a technological solution to the problem.

When I asked Boeing for comment, a spokesperson said, "The 787's systems are working, including the environmental control system that pressurizes the airplane. We are continuing to improve and mature the systems, as is normal for a development program." A Hamilton Sundstrand spokesperson told me that he had no knowledge of such problems.

However, my source told me he spoke just yesterday with an engineer employed by a current Boeing partner who confirmed that this problem has not been solved. In addition to the ECS problems, he says that the 787's electrical system has not lived up to expectations and several redesigns are necessary before the aircraft enters into service.
I don't know what my source's motivations would be for providing this information, but given all the delays and leaks, I thought it worth reporting.

There is a deeper problem with the 787 and that has to do with Boeing's management style. As I wrote in my book, Boeing has a long history of command-and-control leadership -- where top executives tell everyone else what to do. Under its new CEO, Jim McNerney, Boeing had adopted a so-called Transformational Leadership (TL) approach which empowered workers to make decisions, have ownership, and to take responsibility for success and/or failure.

TL was behind Boeing's radical decision to outsource 60 percent of the 787 design and manufacturing to its suppliers. In the past, Boeing had given its suppliers very detailed specifications. But with the 787, Boeing let the suppliers do the design and manufacturing. The first manager of the 787, Mike Bair, was a transformational leader.

Bair took the blame for the 787's delays and Boeing replaced Bair with Pat Shanahan from Boeing's defense unit. As such, Boeing reverted back to its old command-and-control style of leadership. My source claims that when Boeing spent three days in the spring of 2008 with HS, the supplier of the 787's electrical systems, Boeing issued orders to its supplier about how it wanted HS to fix the problems.

Rather than listen to what HS thought would work, Shanahan's team issued orders. And according to my source, HS agreed to what Shanahan wanted even though it did not believed that his ideas or time-line would work.

This story, if true, is deeply troubling because it suggests that Boeing could be panicking and reverting back to its old style of working -- but this time without sufficient technical know-how to make the right decisions. If Boeing is suffering from this deeper management problem, delivering the 850 787 Dreamliners that the airlines have ordered is going to be an even bigger nightmare than I had previously thought.
Peter Cohan is a management consultant (http://petercohan.com/), Babson professor (http://www3.babson.edu/Academics/Divisions/management/facultyprofile.cfm?pageid=391236) and author of eight books including, You Can't Order Change (http://www.amazon.com/You-Cant-Order-Change-Turnaround/dp/1591842395/ref=sr_1_2/002-0707230-7400838?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220097046&sr=1-2). Follow him on ******* (http://*******.com/petercohan). He has no financial interest in the securities mentioned.Source:DailyFinance (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/19/will-boeing-have-to-delay-the-787-dreamliner-another-two-years/)

Is the Boeing 787's electrical system working?

After my post yesterday, which quoted an unnamed source who estimates that fixing the Boeing 787's problems could take two years (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/19/will-boeing-have-to-delay-the-787-dreamliner-another-two-years/), another insider approached me with details of problems with the 787's electrical system (ES). This source, also anonymous, says he worked as a software engineer at Boeing for a decade and is close to the 787 program. This source claims that the 787's ES failed Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspection last year so the FAA ordered the firm responsible for the ES's software to rewrite the code. In my reporting yesterday on potential delays, Boeing spokespeople denied knowledge of any serious problems with the 787's systems.
As claims of problems increase, in my mind, this raises some serious questions about Boeing's board.

A company's board of directors is supposed to keep an eye on the store on behalf of the shareholders. But the ongoing delays of Boeing's (BA) 787 are raising questions about whether its board is fulfilling its obligations. After all, one of the most basic jobs of a public company is to disclose market-moving information to the public on a timely basis. And shareholders are beginning to wonder whether Boeing is holding back such information.
This suggests that Boeing's board does not know about the problems with the 787 or if it does, it has decided that the details of these problems do not need to be released to shareholders. But the 787 is a huge program -- it has 850 orders amounting to a $154 billion (http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=86861) backlog. Therefore, a delay in its delivery schedule can cost Boeing billions in late fees, delayed revenues, and potentially canceled orders.
First here's some background to explain why the ES is so important for the 787. The ES is critical to aircraft operation -- it distributes power around the aircraft from the engines and the Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) -- which provides the power to operate the air conditioning and to start the engines at the gate -- to all the systems requiring electricity.
My source told me that the ES is a so-called level A system (highest level of certification) -- which must pass stringent testing. Such certification Includes evidence of following processes in development and passing thousands of tests. Almost everything on the aircraft is electrical -- even the brakes -- so "it is very critical the system works flawlessly."
This source told me that the software that controls the ES was developed by HCL Technologies -- a $2 billion (2008 revenues) Indian software company that works with Boeing and its partners on the 787 and won Boeing's Gold Performance Excellence Award (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS141388+12-Feb-2009+MW20090212) this February. He spoke with colleagues at United Technologies (UTX (http://finance.aol.com/quotes/united-technologies-corporation/utx/nys)) division -- Hamilton Sundstrand (HS) -- which is the ES's primary contractor (http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/fullnews.asp?edid=13060).
His ES colleagues told him that the Designated Engineering Representative (DER) -- a SWAT team of top engineers that tests aircraft software against rigorous standards -- and the FAA refused to certify the work HCL did and told HS to start over -- without HCL. Several of my source's colleagues joined HS at the end of 2008 in an effort to rewrite the software.
My source says the HCL was chosen for the software in response to Boeing's order that its suppliers outsource at least 25 percent of the work to overseas sub-contractors. And if this information about HCL is true, perhaps HS did not do the best job of picking a qualified supplier. But now that HS is re-doing the software itself, my source can't estimate when it will complete the job to the FAA's satisfaction.
I am surprised that Boeing has not disclosed this problem because it would seem difficult to fly the 787 without a functioning ES. The failure to disclose this suggests that Boeing's board was not aware of the problem or it decided that it was not in the board's interest to disclose it.
I think the SEC may need to look into whether Boeing's board is fulfilling its obligations to shareholders.
Peter Cohan is a management consultant (http://petercohan.com/), Babson professor (http://www3.babson.edu/Academics/Divisions/management/facultyprofile.cfm?pageid=391236) and author of eight books including, You Can't Order Change (http://www.amazon.com/You-Cant-Order-Change-Turnaround/dp/1591842395/ref=sr_1_2/002-0707230-7400838?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220097046&sr=1-2). Follow him on ******* (http://*******.com/petercohan). He has no financial interest in the securities mentioned.Source:DailyFinance (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/20/is-the-boeing-787s-electrical-system-working/)

breakfastburrito

11th Sep 2009, 20:56

The damage that spin and uncritical reporting did to the 787 Dreamliner, Boeing, and the airlines

September 10, 2009 – 3:23 pm, by Ben Sandilands (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/author/bensandilands/)
You don’t have to be interested in aircraft or flying to find a parable about corporate fantasies, outright lies, or the image spinning that can harm or destroy businesses by looking at the dismal saga of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. As mentioned in the preceding post, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries overnight publicly blindsided Boeing by dropping the use of composites in much of its MRJ project.

No doubt, Boeing will lean hard on 787 partner Mitsubishi to recant, modify, or explain away the obvious, but to what end? The Dreamliner is flirting with failure, or suspension, and has already set records for deceptive public announcements, broken promises and weasel words.

The damage done by the Dreamliner fantasy spinners that suppressed the contrary voices among this once great company’s engineers and designers reaches into Airbus, which fell for the rhetoric and committed to a largely plastic competitor, the A350, and into carriers like Qantas, which still has 50 of the 787s on order and has been left looking reckless in its unquestioning acceptance of the Boeing pitch .

Qantas officially maintains it will get its first 787s in the middle of 2013, and not just the one that Boeing can’t even get into the air, but its successor, the 787-9. Even Air New Zealand, which is the launch customer for that version, has known for some time it won’t get a –9 until 2014.

And now Mitsubishi, who made the wing section that broke unexpectedly in a stress test in May, has dropped the plastics from all the critical or ‘adventurous’ parts of its own MRJ regional jet project.

This 787 con, which featured the roll out of a shell of a jet in July 2007, and was the subject of so many seriously deficient claims by Boeing, was sucked up to by a compliant media that has only just started to ask the hard questions.

What exactly did Boeing expect to get from tame reporting? It didn’t help the project, and probably delayed to some extent the onset of reality.

Neither Qantas nor any other customer on public record, is shown to have commissioned expert independent analysis of the claims for high composite structural usage such as proposed for the 787.
Instead the college kids who look like they should have been Mormon missionaries, stomped the world talking up the 787 as a ‘game changer.’

These are the two most dishonest words in aviation language. The only game changed by the 787 has been that of getting away with fantasy claims for a 767 replacement that on all the real indications will be larger, heavier, more expensive to maintain, and with shorter range.

Boeing is a company where hype has suppressed reality right up to the last possible moment. And not been challenged in general by the mainstream media, until now.

Scott Carson, who was relieved of his ‘leadership’ role at the 787, was replaced as president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes by James Albaugh, whose previous achievements include the failure of the Connexion by Boeing sky internet product, and the failure to get a fully functioning Wedgetail airborne command and early warning aircraft ready for delivery to the RAAF at anything remotely resembling the original specifications or timetable.

Boeing is a case study of how rhetoric, spinning, and media cultivation can critically weaken if not destroy an enterprise.

Can it now provide a similar case study in how to repair itself? That depends on its customers, who had ordered over 900 Dreamliners, and are battling the GFC, as well as its own ability to make the 787 work.

Plane Talking, Crikey.com.au (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/09/10/the-damage-that-spin-and-uncritical-reporting-did-to-the-787-dreamliner-boeing-and-the-airlines/)

slamer.

1st Nov 2009, 19:43

Dreamliners flight delayed by 3 years

4:00AM Monday Nov 02, 2009

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/tins_300x200.jpg
Randy Tinseth

Boeing says it is working with customers to find a "win-win" solution after delivery delays for the 787 Dreamliner have stretched at least another six months for Air New Zealand.
The airline is the launch customer for the 787-9 plane which, when ordered in 2006, was expected to be in service next month. It will now get the first of its eight aircraft at the end of 2013.
The programme for the new aircraft built mostly of carbon fibre has been plagued by delays due to design flaws and problems with outsourced supply lines.
Boeing's marketing vice-president Randy Tinseth, who is in New Zealand, said it was now in discussion with airline customers to find solutions following the latest problem, stressed joints between the wing and the body of the plane.
"We clearly made some misstep in that programme. We've had some challenges especially in terms of production and supply base," Tinseth said. It was hoped the first test flight would take off before the end of the year.

One Wall St analyst has calculated Boeing's penalty fees to airlines for late deliveries of the 787 have reached US$5.1 billion ($6.96 billion).
Tinseth would not comment on the figure or deals struck with individual airlines. For Air New Zealand delivery delays have partly worked in its favour by pushing out capital spending at a tough time for global aviation.
Tinseth said: "This is a challenging time. Sometimes it's beneficial for airlines to move back a bit, sometimes it's beneficial for us to move other airlines forward. That's why we're looking for some middle ground."
Air New Zealand has previously said it is disappointed with the delays. Aviation Week reported Macquarie Equities Research's Robert Stallard as saying penalty payments to airlines for delivery slip have "significantly dented the profitability of the programme". But the cost had been manageable as customers are being compensated with "payment in kind", such as other aircraft in the interim instead of cash.
The company last week announced plans to establish a second 787 production line in Charleston, South Carolina, away from its traditional manufacturing power base on the outskirts of Seattle, Washington.
Tinseth said this would allow the company to push up production to 10 aircraft a month once the programme was fully on track. The 787-9 series, which has a longer range and greater seat capacity, would still be made near Seattle.
As part of 20-year projections for the aviation sector, Boeing estimates traffic in the Oceania region will grow by 5.1 per cent - 670 new aircraft valued at US$90 billion.

Sunfish

1st Nov 2009, 20:36

I dealt at a very low level with Boeing in the late 70's early 80's and later on more senior levels with GE, Hamiliton, Airesearch, etc. etc.

My impression from those years was that Boeing had a much better management style than McDonnell Douglas and listened closely to their customers. McD, on the other hand, always said "screw you, what would you know? We designed the DC3".

I also learned from McKinsey's that successful companies focussed on one business and one business only.

McDonnel Douglas screwed up its commercial aircraft division and was eventually taken over by Boeing.... Then Boeings leadership was taken over by the management of McDonnell Douglas! The same goons who screwed up that company! Then they moved headquarters out of Seattle and to St Louis!

Furthermore, while partnerships are all the rage, I don't think McDonnell Douglas ever ran a successful one. Boeing had, but I guess their Seattle based middle management weren't listened to.

My take on events - this was a predictable cluster****.

cirrus32

1st Nov 2009, 20:44

Sunfish,

Don't necessarily disagree with your assessment, but Boeing headquarters moved to Chicago, not St Louis.

Going Boeing

16th Nov 2009, 00:38

http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID24462_600.jpg

Completing This Work is a Significant Step Toward First Flight

(Everett, Wash., November 12, 2009) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) has completed installing reinforcements within the side-of-body section on the first 787 Dreamliner.

The modification entails installing new fittings at 34 stringer locations within the joint where the wing is attached to the fuselage. Installations were completed yesterday.

Boeing expects to complete the installations on the static test airframe and the second flight-test airplane in the coming days.

"Completing this work is a significant step toward first flight. We continue to be pleased with the progress of the team and remain confident the first flight of the 787 Dreamliner will occur before the end of the year," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "We will test the modification on the full-scale static test airframe later this month. As soon as we confirm the loads are being handled appropriately in the joint we will complete preflight activities on the airplane."

Once the modification is complete on the static test airframe, it will be refitted with strain gauges and instrumentation required for testing. Access doors, systems, seals and fasteners removed from airplane No. 1 to provide access are being restored in preparation for continued testing on the airplane. Boeing continues to install fittings on the fatigue test airframe and the remaining flight-test airplanes. Other airplanes will be modified in the weeks ahead. Overall, the work on modifying airplanes is progressing well, Fancher said.

"We have a strong and capable team that has performed exceptionally well," Fancher said. "I'm very pleased with the team's dedication to meet our commitment to fly before the end of the year."

After airplane No. 1 is restored, the flight-test team will perform another set of gauntlet and taxi tests to ensure that all systems are ready for flight. Fancher noted that with the exception of a single high-speed taxi test, all remaining first flight activities have been successfully completed on the first flight-test airplane.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Going Boeing

16th Nov 2009, 01:02

First Boeing 747-8 Freighter Leaves Factory

http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID24444_600.jpg

(Everett, Wash., November 12, 2009) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA), on Thursday afternoon, towed the first 747-8 Freighter out of the factory in Everett, Wash. The airplane, ultimately destined for Cargolux, will be painted and begin preparations for flight test.

"It is very rewarding to see this airplane transition to the flight test phase," said Mo Yahyavi, 747 program vice president and general manager. "Our employees, suppliers and customers have put a lot of work into making the 747-8 Freighter a reality."

The 747-8 Freighter is the new high-capacity 747 that will give cargo operators the lowest operating costs and best economics of any freighter airplane while providing enhanced environmental performance. It is 250 feet, 2 inches (76.3 m) long, which is 18 feet and 4 inches (5.6 m) longer than the 747-400 Freighter. The stretch provides customers with 16 percent more revenue cargo volume compared to its predecessor. That translates to four additional main-deck pallets and three additional lower-hold pallets.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

It looks better than the Dugong

Hugh Mungus

16th Nov 2009, 01:43

Sure does....just like any other 747-100/200 Ive ever seen..now thats new ?;)

Jabawocky

16th Nov 2009, 02:06

Its a lot longer! :D

http://i1.bebo.com/049b/2/large/2009/11/14/22/4525920200a11858925661l.jpg

http://i1.bebo.com/049b/11/large/2009/11/14/22/4525920200a11858925631l.jpg

http://i1.bebo.com/049b/15/large/2009/11/14/22/4525920200a11858925694l.jpg

http://i1.bebo.com/052b/6/large/2009/11/14/22/4525920200a11858925568l.jpg

RedTBar

16th Nov 2009, 03:14

memory problems A380-800 driver?

How many times was the Dugong delayed?

More to the point the Dugong was evolutionary and the 787 is revolutionary but the bottom line is that
It looks better than the Dugong
and that goes for the 747-800 as well as the 787.

Willoz269

16th Nov 2009, 03:38

C'mon Red TBar,

memory problems A380-800 driver?

How many times was the Dugong delayed?

More to the point the Dugong was evolutionary and the 787 is revolutionary but the bottom line is that

The Dugong was delayed far less that the 787, and it actually didnt have design problems, it was a wiring problem, but there was never anything wrong with it structurally. No point being revolutionary if you can't deliver what you promise!

crocodile redundee

16th Nov 2009, 04:04

That latest 747 is beautiful!!!! Love that Fan air exit shape , very technical , must be for better noise reduction. Must be extra wing width & stab width too??? That extra fuselage must be a nightmare on rotation, does it have a decent tailskid????

18-Wheeler

16th Nov 2009, 04:19

The Dugong was delayed far less that the 787, and it actually didnt have design problems, it was a wiring problem, but there was never anything wrong with it structurally

Apart from the tail section not fitting to the rear fuselage when first mated.

Willoz269

16th Nov 2009, 04:37

Apart from the tail section not fitting to the rear fuselage when first mated

It was quickly fixed, but at least the fuselage did not delaminate, the wrong rivets put in place, nor the wing did not achieve the results required in destructive testing, structural load problems with the wing joint, etc etc etc etc....every new bird has its problems...but they are meant to be FEW problems!

I guess the 7LATE7 is revolutionary in this way as well??? :}

18-Wheeler

16th Nov 2009, 04:49

Oh and the 380 centre wing section failing the 150% load test on the first try, requiring design changes and patches on aeroplanes already built.

But yes such things happen to pretty much every new design.

stillalbatross

16th Nov 2009, 04:52

As your non distorted photos show, it's a massive 42 inches longer than a 340-600 and they've got a whopping 3 pax 748's orders, all from Lufthansa. Having told the world and anyone who wanted to listen that widebody twins are where it's at and that the 777 is where it's at, in particular. And that only a complete fool would bother with 4 engines or the hub and spoke network that they require.

I can't imagine the Boeing sales pitch now.

pa28capt

16th Nov 2009, 05:39

what are the basic weights?

Going Boeing

16th Nov 2009, 05:47

A380-800 driver, you conveniently left out the comparison of the Basic Operating weight of each aircraft type as that would give a true indication of the potential payload. We all know that the Dugong is designed to be stretched and thus the Wing/Centre Wing Box structure is bigger, stronger and heavier than what the current -800 version requires - in comparison, the B747-8 wing/fuselage is designed/optimised for the current version, ie they will not be carrying around any excess weight (probably in excess of 100 tonnes) and thus will almost certainly have better fuel/payload/kilometre figures. Some people deride the B747-8 as being old technology but as it has an entirely new wing, partial fly-by-wire controls, GENX engines & associated systems etc, I believe that its operational performance will stack up very competitively with the Dugong.

Wrt your post #114, earlier in this thread, the question was posed as to which of the two new Boeings would start test flying first. My posts were simply showing that the race is still on.

blow.n.gasket

16th Nov 2009, 05:48

Or more importantly what's the max payload at max range comparison like?

Taildragger67

16th Nov 2009, 08:09

Stillalbatross,

LH have ordered 20 x 747-8I, not 3.

Still not a huge number...

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm?content=displaystandardreport.cfm&pageid=m25065&RequestTimeout=20000

sleeve of wizard

16th Nov 2009, 09:02

New glitch reported in Dreamliner
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By Julie Johnsson Tribune reporter 5:17 p.m. CST, November 13, 2009

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Boeing Co. engineers discovered yet another problem with the 787 Dreamliner this summer as they raced to deal with the latest cause of delays with the star-crossed jet: structural weaknesses where its wings attach to the frame.

Metals bolts known as "freeze plugs" had damaged composite materials in the wing of one of the six planes that Boeing plans to use in flight tests, engineers found. They strongly recommended that the plane remain grounded until the problem is fixed, the Wall Street Journal reported Friday.

A spokeswoman for Chicago-based Boeing provided few details of the incident, aside to say that the problem had been "resolved" and to confirm that the 787 remains on track to take its first flight late next month.

Delamination over time can lead to structural failure in a composite, a super-hardened plastic that Boeing is using extensively in place of metal in the new plane. Boeing wouldn't say if similar corrosion was found in other Dreamliners.

The 787, which is running nearly three years behind schedule, relies on composites to a greater extent than any other commercial jetliner. The space-age materials, which are stronger and lighter than metal, are designed to make the plane more fuel-efficient.

However, Boeing has encountered problem after problem as it tries to get the best-selling jet into the air for the first time. Critics conted Boeing was too ambitious with the Dreamliner, attempting to build a ground-breaking airplane while retooling its manufacturing to place much of the responsibility for design and assembly in the hands of suppliers.

The plane's first flight was originally scheduled for late summer 2007 but has been postponed repeatedly as Boeing grappled with glitchess that have included a shortage of titanium fasteners, coding issues, paperwork snarls and suppliers struggling to meet Boeing's ambitious production schedule.

The latest postponement came in June as suppliers, airline partners and journalists prepared to trek to Everett, Wash., to witness the 787's first flight, a key milestone. Boeing called off the festivities and revealed the 787 frame had shown unanticipated structural weakness in testing in a critical area, where the wings are joined to the fuselage.

Over the summer, Boeing's engineers devised a fix, installing new fittings in 34 locations on the first test-flight aircraft. They plan to finish work on the second flight-test plane shortly, Boeing announced Thursday.

Boeing hasn't completed installing the reinforcements on its static-test airframe. Until it does so, Boeing won't be able to fully test whether its fix worked.

"Once the installations are complete the team will re-fit the strain gauges and other instrumentation necessary to prepare for the test, which will occur later this month," said Mary Hanson, a Boeing spokeswoman. "We've done a significant amount of static and fatigue testing at the subcomponent level and are confident we have the right approach."

stubby jumbo

17th Nov 2009, 08:23

.....Hell -why all the fuss???

All Boeing has to do is bring in the Qantas Spin team and it would be all sorted. The old 78" record got a good work out last year.

Ladies and Gentlemen -our apologies for the delay -but we always put Safety before Schedule" :hmm:

Works a treat !:suspect:

Shark Patrol

17th Nov 2009, 16:36

So Stubby,

What's your suggested alternative?

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a technical problem with the aircraft, but because we know schedule is so important to our customers, we're going to go anyway. Hopefully, we will arrive at our destination.

:ugh: :*

stubby jumbo

18th Nov 2009, 02:06

.....hey Shark !

Ease up on those Thrust Levers Bucko!

Its called satire. :rolleyes:

Of course I don't want the 787 being lobbed off the assembly line "half baked".

My comment was that we always use "safety before schedule"....the result =punters cannot argue with it.

eeeezie peeezie

Shark Patrol

18th Nov 2009, 03:39

Fair enough.

Re-reading your first post again, I have obviously taken your comments out of context and construed them as more of the QF bashing that often goes on here on this BB.

My apologies - I think we are both making the same argument that Safety before Schedule is not spin (and never should be).

Going Boeing

20th Nov 2009, 02:50

http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID24597_600.jpg

It features an oversized '8' on the background of the tail as well as '747-8' on the belly

(Everett, Wash., November 18, 2009) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) moved the first 747-8 Freighter out of the paint hangar in Everett, Wash., Tuesday night sporting a special "light" livery.

Painted white with blue accents, the 747-8 Freighter unveiled a new twist on the Boeing Commercial Airplanes livery. It features an oversized "8" on the background of the tail as well as "747-8" on the belly.

The light livery, which saves time and expense compared to the full Boeing livery, will remain on the airplane until the flight-test program is completed. After flight test, it will be refurbished and delivered to a customer.

The first freighter will begin preparing for the necessary tests leading up to first flight in early 2010.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

stillalbatross

23rd Nov 2009, 00:38

Understand the revolutionary air conditioning system in the 787 has found to be somewhat problematic and requires a substantial redesign. Throw on another couple of years delays and with the A350 possibly flying in 2013 it will be close. I suppose they could always deliver the first bunch unpressurised.

Of course the 747-8 will be on schedule, it's just a couple of plugs and a pair of winglets, how hard can that be?

Zeke

23rd Nov 2009, 05:27

Apart from the tail section not fitting to the rear fuselage when first mated.

The 747-8 has had problems with all the new to old section joins, that is what you get when you design something on paper 40+ years ago and then design updates with higher tolerances on CATIA. A lot of shims were needed to join the 747-8 together.

Oh and the 380 centre wing section failing the 150% load test on the first try, requiring design changes and patches on aeroplanes already built.

The wing that failed on MSN5000 a few percent below 150% was not the same standard as what was installed on MSN001. I am not aware of any problem with the "centre wing section". The failure on MSN5000 occurred between the inboard and outboard engine at 147% of the limit load. The design requirement is to hold 150% for 3 seconds.

In comparison the wing on the C-17 failed at 124%, and the wing on the 787 also failed in the 120-130% range. The 747-8 wing will not be tested, we know of a number of examples of 747 having inadequate design margins, I can think of two incidents where 747s lost engines in flight due to turbulence as side that were not accounted for. The “new”: 747-8 wing is “grandfathered” off this same 40+ year old design.

A380-800 driver, you conveniently left out the comparison of the Basic Operating weight of each aircraft type as that would give a true indication of the potential payload.

That is a useless metric, comparing the OEW numbers for the 747-8i to the A380-800 is a stacked deck, it does not take a genius to realise that an interior for 100+ less seats is going to be lighter.

The "green" A380 has a weight MEW/MWE of 243,200 kg, add the interior to the various between operators to make the OEW around the 280,000-290,000 kg mark. Compare a green A380 to a green 747-8i, and the MEW/MWE ratio to the MZFW would surprise you. Put the same interior standard in the 747-8 as what airlines are installing in the A380 (not the Boeing marketing numbers which use a seat pitch of 61” in first and 39” in business, no crew rest, and not enough galleys and toilets for todays service standards) and the OEW of the 747-8i is much higher that what is being projected by Boeing marketing.

in comparison, the B747-8 wing/fuselage is designed/optimised for the current version, ie they will not be carrying around any excess weight (probably in excess of 100 tonnes) and thus will almost certainly have better fuel/payload/kilometre figures. Some people deride the B747-8 as being old technology but as it has an entirely new wing, partial fly-by-wire controls, GENX engines & associated systems etc, I believe that its operational performance will stack up very competitively with the A380.

Boeing have conceded that the wing on the 747-8 is not as optimised as it should be. It has kept the same sweep, planform and the location of the structure (inc engine spanwise location) as the 747 classic. It has retwisted and relofted the wing section and added the raked wingtip. This is inefficient for modern supercritical wing section, it should have a higher aspect ratio and lower sweep, and engines in different positions for the bow wave change.

Additionally the GEnx was not optimised for the 747-8, they made it work, but it does not have the same propulsive efficiency as the engine on the 787 due to the smaller fan size and the engine inlet had to be redesigned to the increased operating speed. It does not have the same thermal efficiency due as the engine is not being bleedless. It is also larger with more wetted area, hence drag rise.

What you have also neglected to mention is the advances that both RR and EA have brought to the table since they both flew their A380 engines, both have reduced their TSFC down a few percent leveraging technology from the GEnx/Trent 1000 for the 787 and are still improving. The A380 is also dropping a couple more tonne as more GLARE is being used on the fuselage after MSN024.

The 747-8 has lost its propulsive competitive advantage by being so late. Boeings original business plan had 60% of the 747-8 sales as being passenger models, the market has responded with years of silence with no further passenger sales since LH ( know about the handful of VIP aircraft)

My understanding is they only aspect of the 747-8 that is FBW is the spoilers, none of the primary flight controls, they remain they same conventional control system as found on the 747-400 with 80% parts commonalty with the 747-400.

Of course the 747-8 will be on schedule, it's just a couple of plugs and a pair of winglets, how hard can that be?

The 747-8 is already well late as well. At this stage the "simple" derivative looks like it may exceed the 18 months the A380 was late getting to SQ. Some customers are now looking at walking away from their 747-8 commitments as the airframe has now exceeded the 12 month delayed barrier, and they can cancel without penalty.

This was the original 747-8 plan.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/thezeke/747/748timetable.png

The 747 was a magic girl, but the sun is going down on her.

By George

24th Nov 2009, 00:50

Sad but true, the old tart (747) is on the way out. Our lot finish in March 2011 and then the desert. Victorville the final destination. The Company had 44 when I joined, now down to 9. The latest rummour is Lufthansa may even cancel the 747-8. Every walk-around now feels like living history. I even gave her a little pat yesterday (when nobody was looking). Last flight to SYD now extended to 31st Jan. I do the 30th, suppose a 'buzz and break' is out of the question?

stillalbatross

24th Nov 2009, 01:03

Just have a feeling that they've built this thing on the basis thats it's completely new when they've used lots of the 744 to keep costs down. They've spent a decade promoting another aircraft to replace the 744 and a zillion graphs and charts to show hub and spoke are dead and now they want the customers to start buying it?

Sounds like the 757 stretch that was also promoted as a wonderful new aircraft when it wasn't. It also got no buyers and was a flop. Can't see how they can convince airlines no aircraft bigger than the 744 will work in the "new world of aviation" and then turn around and try to sell this.

You have to wonder if they got too greedy from the easy money made on the 744 through the late 90's. If they had brought in the 747-800 in 2003-05 they may have had more success with it. Maybe they couldn't be bothered if the A380 was possibly going to get shelved then everyone would have bought 787 whatever the wait.

And they'd still be selling 744's for another 50 years.

Going Boeing

24th Nov 2009, 02:52

Boeing Breaks Ground on 2nd 787 Assembly Line in North Charleston
http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID24649_600.jpg
Boeing facility expands production capability and increases footprint in South Carolina

(North Charleston, S.C., November 20, 2009) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today held a groundbreaking ceremony to mark the start of construction for the second final assembly site for the 787 Dreamliner program at its Boeing Charleston facility. The facility also will have the capability to support the testing and delivery of airplanes.

"Today's event marks the beginning of an expansion plan that will strengthen the 787 program and allow us to continue building on the footprint we have established in South Carolina with Boeing Charleston and Global Aeronautica," said Jim Albaugh, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Locating the second line in North Charleston will allow Boeing to successfully compete in the aerospace market and grow for the long-term benefit of many stakeholders."

Today's groundbreaking ceremony was attended by Albaugh; South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford; Sen. Lindsey Graham; Sen. Jim DeMint; Rep. Henry Brown; Rep. James Clyburn; State Sen. Hugh Leatherman; State Sen. Glenn McConnell; State Rep., Speaker of the House Bobby Harrell; Charleston County Council Chairman Teddie Pryor, Sr.; North Charleston Mayor Keith Summey and other key officials from South Carolina. Anita Zucker, chairperson and CEO of The InterTech Group, Inc., served as master of ceremonies for the event.

Boeing Charleston performs fabrication, assembly and systems installation for the 787 aft fuselage sections. Global Aeronautica, which is 50 percent owned by Boeing, is responsible for joining and integrating 787 fuselage sections from other structural partners.

"We look forward to expanding our capability in South Carolina through our existing site, while maintaining our commitment to the Puget Sound region where Boeing Commercial Airplanes remains headquartered," said Albaugh. "Puget Sound will continue to design and produce airplanes, including the 787."

The 787 Dreamliner will be more efficient, quieter and have lower emissions than other airplanes while offering passengers greater comfort and the convenience of direct, nonstop flights between more cities around the world. Fifty-five customers around the world have ordered 840 787s since the program was launched in April 2004, making the Dreamliner the fastest-selling new commercial jetliner in history. The 787 family of airplanes will carry 210 to 330 passengers on flights up to 8,500 nautical miles (15,750 km).

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Taildragger67

24th Nov 2009, 04:01

Interesting that the flight line in that mock-up of the Charleston facility is populated by what look suspiciously like 767s... :hmm:

kiwilad

25th Nov 2009, 09:35

That line up of 767s is probably due to it becoming the place for the US tanker refits when the 787 fails to get ramped up!!!:ok:

FlexibleResponse

25th Nov 2009, 11:58

Today's groundbreaking ceremony was attended by Albaugh; South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford; Sen. Lindsey Graham; Sen. Jim DeMint; Rep. Henry Brown; Rep. James Clyburn; State Sen. Hugh Leatherman; State Sen. Glenn McConnell; State Rep., Speaker of the House Bobby Harrell; Charleston County Council Chairman Teddie Pryor, Sr.; North Charleston Mayor Keith Summey and other key officials from South Carolina. Anita Zucker, chairperson and CEO of The InterTech Group, Inc., served as master of ceremonies for the event.

Wow...now that is what's called top-cover!

Wod

26th Nov 2009, 06:49

I guess Billy Doyle from Parramatta must still have been chatting to the Pope then.

(Old Aussie tall poppy joke)

bubble.head

1st Dec 2009, 00:36

copy and pasted from flightblogger

787 passes crucial "2C" static test (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/11/787-static-airframe-passes-cru.html)

By Jon Ostrower (http://flightglobal.com/flightblogger) on November 30, 2009 7:05 PM | Permalink (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/11/787-static-airframe-passes-cru.html) | Comments (9) (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/11/787-static-airframe-passes-cru.html#comments) | TrackBacks (0) (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/11/787-static-airframe-passes-cru.html#trackback)

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/ZY997wingflex_560.jpgBoeing successfully completed a critical static test today that re-created the conditions that caused the initial delamination in the 787 stringer caps (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7702824@N03/4148801466/), multiple sources tell FlightBlogger.

The test -- dubbed "2C" -- saw the composite wings of ZY997, Boeing's static test airframe, flexed to a deflection 18 feet without suffering the delamination first seen in previous testing back in May.

Today's 2C test, which exceeded 100% of the loads a 787 would ever encounter in service, is the third and final static test FAA requirement to clear the 787 for its first flight in December.

While the final data analysis is not yet complete, the successful static test is a significant step forward in validating the modification to the 787's side-of-body, which wrapped up installation on ZY997 on November 16 (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/11/boeing-advances-on-787-wing-fi.html).

The first two requirements included the high-blow test (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/09/boeing-completes-787-highblow.html), completed in September 2008, and the 1G checkout (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/04/the-road-to-787-first-flight---3.html), which was completed in March 20.

Sources say Boeing plans to test the 787 wing to ultimate load of 150% in the spring of 2010.

Boeing was unreachable for comment at the time of publication.

ozaub

3rd Dec 2009, 08:23

Congratulations to Boeing if 787 has indeed cleared the Limit Load Test. About time too!
But 18 months ago, back at #31 on this thread I warned of difficulties in predicting capabilities of composites and of the criticality of the ultimate load test. That remains a big hurdle.
Few if any airplanes have failed static test at limit load, as the 787 did. Now that the first failure has been fixed, certification depends on proving that the whole airframe can sustain an additional 50% (i.e. design ultimate load). Since all structure was designed using analyses that have been proven defective by the wing to body failure, it will be pure good luck if the rest of the structure can sustain that extra 50% without premature failures somewhere else.

Going Boeing

8th Dec 2009, 12:30

http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID24890_600.jpg
Boeing, Korean Air Announce Order for New 747-8 Intercontinental
Five airplanes worth $1.5 billion at list prices

(Seattle, December 4, 2009) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) and Korean Air today announced an order for five 747-8 Intercontinental jetliners. Korean Air is the first Asian airline to order the passenger version of the new, fuel-efficient 747-8.

The airplanes have a total average list price value of $1.5 billion. Korean Air already has arrangements to operate seven 747-8 Freighters.

"This is a great day in the history of our long and enduring partnership with Korean Air," said Jim Albaugh, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "The technologically advanced 747-8 Intercontinental is particularly well suited for Korean Air's operations. It will provide exceptional levels of passenger comfort, greatly enhanced fuel efficiency and reduced emissions and noise. The announcement comes at an exciting time as we move closer to the first 747-8 Freighter flight in early 2010."

Korean Air plans on flying the 747-8 Intercontinental on long-haul routes to the Americas and Europe.

"The 747-8 Intercontinental fills the void between the 300- and 550-seat airplanes in our future fleet," said Won Tae Cho, managing vice president of Korean Air Passenger Business Division. "The technological enhancements Boeing has made to this airplane will deliver exceptional economics and a flying experience that will thrill our customers, enabling Korean Air to provide Excellence in Flight to our customers."

The new 747-8 Intercontinental is stretched 18.3 feet (5.6 m) from the 747-400 to provide 467 seats in a three-class configuration, an additional 51 seats. It also offers a range of 8,000 nautical miles (14,815 km). Using the new GEnx-2B engines, the 747-8 provides airlines a quieter, more fuel-efficient airplane. The 747-8 also provides nearly equivalent trip costs and 13 percent lower seat-mile costs than the 747-400, plus 26 percent greater cargo volume.

The 747-8 also features a new wing design and an upgraded flight deck. The airplane interior incorporates features from the 787 Dreamliner, including a new curved, upswept architecture that will give passengers a greater sense of space and comfort, while adding more room for personal belongings. The architecture will be accentuated by lighting technology that provides smooth transitions for a more restful flight.

The 747 program is in the later stages of the 747-8 Intercontinental design phase. Assembly on the airplane is set to begin around mid-2010, with the first delivery of the passenger version scheduled for the fourth quarter of 2011.

With the addition of the Korean Air order, Boeing has secured 110 orders for the 747-8. Thirty-two of the orders are for the 747-8 Intercontinental, and the remaining 78 are for the 747-8 Freighter.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Willoz269

9th Dec 2009, 00:16

Is KAL receiving the 7Late7 as well? If so, is this order part of a compensation package? 5 aeroplanes seems like a lot of trouble to introduce as a new type!

Going Boeing

11th Dec 2009, 01:00

'The Engines and All the Systems Performed As Expected'
http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID24977_600.jpg
(Everett, Wash., December 9, 2009) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) successfully completed the first engine runs for the 747-8 Freighter. The milestone marks another step in the 747 program's steady progress in preparing for flight test.

"We are very pleased with the engines' performance during this test," said Mo Yahyavi, vice president and general manager of the 747 program. "The engines and all the systems performed as expected."

Engine runs began slightly before 10 a.m. (PST) Tuesday. During initial engine runs, the engines are started and operated at various power settings to ensure all systems perform as expected. The engine run test began with the auxiliary power system providing power to start the first of four General Electric GEnx-2B engines. The remaining three engines were started using the cross-bleed function.

Basic systems checks continued throughout the test. The engines were powered down and inspected and will be restarted following a technical review. The team completed a vibration check and monitored the shutdown logic to ensure it functioned as expected.

"This milestone is an exciting one for the GEnx-2B team and we anticipate the engines will continue the same high performance that we have experienced in our ground and flight tests," said Tom Brisken, general manager of the GEnx Program at GE Aviation.

The GEnx-2B engine is optimized for the 747-8. It helps provide customers with improved fuel efficiency, reductions in emissions and noise and a lower cost of ownership.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Could someone in the know confirm that the GENx engines on the B747-8 use bleed air to start the engines - on the B787 I understand that they use electric starter motors/generators.

Jet_A_Knight

11th Dec 2009, 22:47

From the Boeing Company ...

The Boeing Company is proud to announce the window for first flight is planned to open at 10 a.m. on Dec. 15 at Paine Field in Everett, Wash. This date is dependent upon final internal reviews, taxi test and receiving the final experimental ticket from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration.

The aircraft financial community was instrumental in helping define the 787 product, and we'd like to invite you to view this achievement via the World Wide Web. Our Web site will present a live broadcast of the takeoff, landing and post-flight press conference. You can access this site at The Boeing Company (http://www.boeing.com) or Boeing's New Airplane (http://www.newairplane.com).

When you access boeing.com or newairplane.com, look for a banner like the one contained in this e-mail. The banner will display more information on the timing for first flight. The Web site will go live 24 hours prior to takeoff. The site features information about the airplane and our customers, partners and employees. It also will share videos highlighting other historic first flights and offer a behind-the-scenes look at flight testing.

The Web presentation will begin as the airplane start to taxi to the runway. A Boeing host will set the stage for takeoff. After the airplane leaves the ground, the Web site will carry live updates on flight status. The flight may last as long as three to five hours, so you will probably want to check back often. As the airplane prepares to land, the Boeing host will return and the landing and press conference will be carried live.

Please note that first flights are dynamic in nature and issues such as poor weather may affect timing. Please check the Web site for updates. We hope that you and your colleagues will join us in celebrating the first flight of Boeing's most advanced commercial airplane

training wheels

11th Dec 2009, 23:11

I didn't realise it had already done it's taxi tests and RTO tests. The video looks awesome!

Boeing's New Airplane (http://www.newairplane.com/multimedia/#/54)

slamer.

13th Dec 2009, 19:08

Next step the sky

4:00 AM Monday Dec 14

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/dreamliner_220x147.jpg Boeing's 787 Dreamliner undergoes testing on the tarmac at Paine Field in Washington state before its first test flight.

The first flight for the long-delayed 787 Dreamliner is scheduled for around 7am on Wednesday morning (NZT).
High-speed taxi testing was successfully completed yesterday at Everett in Washington state and the four to five-hour flight will go ahead if there are favourable conditions.
Boeing policy for first flight weather calls for good visibility, no standing water on the runway and gentle or no wind.
A successful maiden flight will mark a critical milestone for Boeing and will offer hope to impatient airlines which have seen the jetliner delayed for more than two and a half years.
Air New Zealand is the launch customer for the larger version of the plane, the 787-9, which was due to be delivered next year. The airline will now have to wait until 2013 before it gets the first of its eight planes on order.
The test flight has been delayed at least five times and has added billions of dollars to development costs, including penalties to airlines.
The 787 uses lightweight materials including carbon fibre-reinforced plastic and has an advanced electrical system.

The Boeing Company (http://www.boeing.com) Boeing's New Airplane (http://www.newairplane.com)

snowfalcon2

14th Dec 2009, 19:59

I didn't realise it had already done it's taxi tests and RTO tests. The video looks awesome!

Not RTO at this stage. According to Seattle News (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2010494844_787flighttest13.html), those will be done at Edwards Air Force base using its 15,000-feet runway.

PS: Weather forecast for PAE does not look very inviting for a first flight. We'll see....

training wheels

15th Dec 2009, 00:55

Not RTO at this stage.

The video certainly looked like an RTO with reverse thrusts being deployed. :confused:

And even more confusing is this a photo of the 787 rotating on its take-off run .... before it's first flight. :confused:

Boeing's New Airplane (http://www.newairplane.com/multimedia/#/100) :confused:

The Green Goblin

15th Dec 2009, 01:51

I can't wait to fly one :ok:

Moony123

15th Dec 2009, 02:14

And even more confusing is this a photo of the 787 rotating on its take-off run .... before it's first flight

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2009/12/13/sakamoto.dreamliner.test.cnn)

Explains that one.

C441

15th Dec 2009, 04:03

The video certainly looked like an RTO with reverse thrusts being deployed.

Looks like a normal landing roll demonstration. You'd notice the difference with the maximum auto or manual braking associated with an RTO. Operation of reverse thrust is common to both.

nomorecatering

15th Dec 2009, 11:39

Looks like it might not today as at 4:40 am seattle time. This is the TAF for Boing field.

KBFI
151153Z 00000KT 10SM OVC026 04/03 A2978 RMK AO2 RAB03E53 SLP083 P0001 60012 70046 T00440028 10044 20033 50012

capt787

15th Dec 2009, 12:51

RMK AO2 RAB03E53 SLP083 P0001 60012 70046 T00440028 10044 20033 50012

what does this mean? :confused:

training wheels

15th Dec 2009, 19:54

It flies!! :ok:

GgdympirT8I

Jabawocky

15th Dec 2009, 20:10

Jabavission from this morning.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mYUxGArCljM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mYUxGArCljM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

krankin

15th Dec 2009, 20:30

Anyone know what the first flight invloves? Duration? Manouvres etc? As i believe the gear has to stay down for the whole of the first flight?

Anyone involved with testing on here?

Jabawocky

15th Dec 2009, 21:24

Can't tell you a whole lot more but 2.5 hours test flight provided wx stays good in the test area and at the 5 or so other diversion fields, and the arrival at Boeing Field Seattle. So long as they dont have tech issues of a serious nature and divert they should be completing the flight around 152100Z.

J:ok:

krankin

16th Dec 2009, 02:59

Any landing shots or news yet Jaba?

Jabawocky

16th Dec 2009, 03:07

no...... but I am sure they will publish it.

My source is on the inside.....but not at Boeing Field which is where it was going to land, it departed from the factory in Everett!

J :ok:

SMOC

16th Dec 2009, 03:16

Boeing 787 Dreamliner First Flight (http://787firstflight.newairplane.com/ffindex.html)

Top Right - WEBCAST For T/O & LDG

crocodile redundee

17th Dec 2009, 03:51

Well , the test flight news footage looked pretty good to me. Except the engine T/O noise sounded dreadfull- kinda like a Honda nifty fifty motorbike with a hole in the muffler!!!! Reminded me of the sound of the Nazi buzz bombs in WWII !!!!! Surely Boeing can get a better sounding engine than that!!!! :yuk:

slamer.

17th Dec 2009, 08:42

Maybe it was the sound of the T33 chase planes you could hear. In which case it probably is WW11 German technology...

quadradar

17th Dec 2009, 12:32

I've heard of dihedral but that wing looks like a banana ......:}

RedTBar

17th Dec 2009, 22:22

Surely Boeing can get a better sounding engine than that!!!!
From the looks it was a RR engine so you might want to talk to the poms but you have to admit that it looks a heck of a lot better than the Airbus 380.:ok:

Willoz269

17th Dec 2009, 22:49

Why is it every second post compares the 787 to the A380? It is like comparing a panel van to a Mac truck!

I even had someone discussing the fact that the 787 had bigger wing flex than the A380....fancy that! Would it be because the A380 has an extra 2 engines on the outer wing weighing it down? Or the fact that the A380 wing is designed to carry twice the weight of the 787? Dah!

The wing flex is impressive on the 787, very nice to watch, lovely to see it finally in the air...must say, the best flex until now had been on the A330, and it is lovely to see the A330 and 787 flex wings like some overgrown glider or super metal bird itching to get airborne.

Exciting times ahead!

QF411

19th Dec 2009, 23:16

They should stick a pair of RB211s to it.....nothing sounds better....

an3_bolt

19th Dec 2009, 23:40

They should stick a pair of RB211s to it.....nothing sounds better....

I hope you are kidding?

turtlehead

25th Dec 2009, 16:34

Boeing's 787 Dreamliner No. 2 landed safely at Boeing Field after its first test flight, which was marred by minor trouble with the landing gear and brakes

Boeing news | First flight of glitches for Dreamliner No. 2 | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2010568452_secondflight23.html)

Going Boeing

26th Dec 2009, 01:00

This is the second of six 787s being used in the airplane's flight-test program

http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID25235_600.jpg
(Everett, Wash., December 22, 2009) -- The second Boeing (NYSE: BA) 787 Dreamliner, ZA002, completed its first flight today. The all-new airplane, which features the livery of the Dreamliner's launch customer, ANA (All Nippon Airways) of Japan, took off from Paine Field in Everett, completed a two-hour flight and landed at Boeing Field in Seattle.

"We are delighted that the second Dreamliner is in the livery of our launch customer, ANA," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "We are honored by the airline's support and look forward to delivering ANA the first production airplane next year."

Captain Randy Neville was at the controls for the flight, with Chief Pilot Mike Carriker operating as co-pilot. Neville and Carriker took the airplane to an altitude of 13,000 feet (3,962 m) and an airspeed of 200 knots, or about 230 miles (370 km) per hour. The airplane took off at 9:09 a.m. PST and landed at 11:10 a.m. PST.

This is the second of six 787s being used in the airplane's flight-test program. Each of the airplanes will be used for a specific set of tests, with this airplane focusing on systems performance. Like its predecessor, ZA001, the airplane is powered by two Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines.

"We would like to convey our sincere congratulations to the Boeing team for its achievement of this milestone, and we look forward to the delivery into our fleet next year," said Shinichiro Ito, president and CEO of ANA.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

JetPhotos.Net Photo » N787EX (CN: 40691) All Nippon Airways (ANA) Boeing 787-881 Dreamliner by Joe G. Walker (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6736951)

slamer.

10th Jan 2010, 21:22

Boeing ponders future of 787-3

4:00 AM Monday Jan 11, 2010

CHICAGO - Boeing is re-evaluating plans for a short-range version of its 787 airplane after the sole airline with pending orders went with other Boeing models instead.
Randy Tinseth, vice-president of marketing for Boeing's commercial airplanes division, wrote in a company blog that Boeing will "continue to assess the market viability" of the 787-3, a model that Boeing describes as a "super-efficient airplane" aimed at the middle of the market. Boeing said the plane used 20 per cent less fuel than other planes of its size, and seats 290 to 330 passengers and had a range of 4600 to 5612km.
Boeing has poured billions of dollars into developing the family of 787 jetliners, which feature radical departures from other planes in design to make the planes quieter, lighter and less fuel-thirsty. The initial flight of a 787 took place last month, two years behind schedule as the programme has been plagued by parts problems and delays.
The move to rethink the 787-3's future comes after Japan's All Nippon Airways converted its 787-3 orders into other models, a decision that left Boeing, based in Chicago, with no orders left for the plane in the company's backlog, Tinseth said.
Other models in the Boeing 787 family include the 787-8, which can carry 210 to 250 passengers with a range of 14,076 to 15,088km, and the 787-9, which can carry 250 to 290 passengers with a range of 14,720 to 15,640km.

-AP
http://apn-images.adbureau.net/apn/accipiter/images/AE1.gif (http://ads.apn.co.nz/accipiter/adclick/CID=fffffffcfffffffcfffffffc/aamsz=440X400/POS=POS2/acc_random=73137151333/pageid=91562835773/site=NZH/area=SEC.BUSINESS.STY/keyword=boeing ponders future aviation chicago re evaluating plans short range version airplane sole airline pending orders went models randy tinseth vice president marketing commercial airplanes division wrote company blog continue assess market viability)

Jabawocky

8th Feb 2010, 20:32

This thread has been a combination of 787 and the 747-8 so I figure its newsworthy enough to put this back up.

This morning our time was scheduled to be the first flight of the newest generation 747 from Everett. However just like Melbourne, you cant trust the weather and as of an hour ago she was waiting for the cloud base to rise.

If I get any video or pics, I will do my best to post them.

J:ok:

Jabawocky

8th Feb 2010, 20:54

I am sure the media and others will provide better eventually, but here she goes!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/M4PJIgV2eNU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/M4PJIgV2eNU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

J:ok:

training wheels

8th Feb 2010, 22:48

There's a live webcast of the landing in about 25 minutes from now.

Boeing 747-8 Freighter First Flight (http://747-8firstflight.com/)

dghob

9th Feb 2010, 02:16

The Queen of the Skies lives on! The GEnx-2B engines are said to make the aircraft 17% more fuel efficient than the -400 series (ref the Boeing web site). I'm wondering what would prevent the same engines being installed as an upgrade on the -400 series. Also the scalloping on the engines (also noted on the 787) at the business end is interesting - I'd be interested to learn its purpose.
Cheers
dghob

kiwi grey

9th Feb 2010, 06:17

I think Boeing call them "chevrons", but they're supposed to make the engines quieter. Well, less noisy, anyway!:)

Shhhh

QF411

9th Feb 2010, 07:57

an3_bolt (http://www.pprune.org/members/114894-an3_bolt),

I take it you're not a fan of the Rollers?

400Rulz

28th Feb 2010, 10:31

The Rolls engines are nearly a tonne heavier than the GE's. While the Vmcg is lower, their performance in the climb above mach transition is considerably less than the GE's. They take 5 minutes to warm up (3 for the GE), so for short taxi times like LA for 24L, the warm up time can be a limitation for departure (if the cabin crew are fast enough). The residual thrust is less (so on flare I always retard the levers at 30ft for the Rolls) c.f. 50 ft for the GE's, and as it is company policy to shut down 2 engines on arrival after the mandatory cool down period, the Rolls always requires more than idle thrust to keep the aircraft moving. Plus they whine like a bunch of Poms on a Seven's holiday.
Give me GE's anyday!

slamer.

28th Feb 2010, 18:23

Sounds like you need to fly a B777!

Going Boeing

28th Feb 2010, 21:48

400R, your figures are a little exaggerated. If you are talking about comparing the RB211-524 in comparison to the CF6, the weight difference is significantly less than a tonne (the -T mod reduced the weight as well as lowering fuel consumption) but more importantly, the engine "hot section" lasts more than 2 times longer than the GE - the difference is so large that GE has been doing a lot of research into extending the life of their "hot section" and a mod has recently been released (although this will still not be as effective as the -T mod). The slower decay of the "hot section" on the RR results in better fuel consumption figures which more than offsets the weight difference.

If you want to look at higher thrust engines as on the B777-200ER/300 which I believe are in the 95-98,000lb thrust class, the GE90 engine is more than 2 tonnes heavier than the RR Trent, so it appears that the 3 spool design becomes more effective at higher thrusts.

The residual thrust is less (so on flare I always retard the levers at 30ft for the Rolls) c.f. 50 ft for the GE's, and as it is company policy to shut down 2 engines on arrival after the mandatory cool down period, the Rolls always requires more than idle thrust to keep the aircraft moving.

You obviously have a different flare technique to me and I find the Roller a much easier aircraft to get consistent landings. The higher residual thrust of the GE's tend to cause longer landings unless you use the half flare & freeze technique. Taxiing the RR aircraft at 15-18 knots does not require more than idle thrust but if you dawdle around at 8 knots, then you have to apply additional thrust. The high idle thrust of the GE does cause significantly more use of the brakes which is not ideal.

The GE is a great engine wrt its faster starting and better acceleration but talking to a number of LAME's the RR is machined to a higher standard.

Getting back to the thread, it's hard to do any comparison on the B787 engines at this stage as both engines are significantly different due to there being no requirement for huge quantities of bleed air. Qantas selected the GENx engine over the RR Trent 1000 but I recall Peter Gregg saying at the time that there was very little difference between the engines.

slamer.

10th Mar 2010, 01:51

Boeing says 787 testing going well

11:00 AM Wednesday Mar 10, 2010

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/787_takeoffAP_220x147.jpg (http://javascript:ExpandArticleImage();) Expand (http://javascript:ExpandArticleImage();) The new Boeing 787 jet taking off on its inagural flight last year.

Boeing is putting its new 787 through an aggressive flight-testing schedule, with the fourth plane set to begin test flights on Sunday.
Boeing is aiming to deliver the plane to its first customer by the end of this year. By midyear it is aiming to fly six planes a total of 90 hours per week, Jim Albaugh, chief executive of Boeing's commercial airplane division, told analysts on Tuesday.
Albaugh said the testing so far has included more than 100 stalls, some practice with an engine off, and a dive that brought it to Mach .97, close to the speed of sound.
He said the testing program got off to a slow start after the plane first flew in December. But there is one month to six weeks extra built into the testing schedule in case of other delays, he said.Boeing also plans to do more testing on each flight. By the end of March it expects to have the government approval it needs to bring engineers and officials from the Federal Aviation Administration on the test flights, he said. "Everybody felt very euphoric over the first flight, and it did retire a significant amount of technical risk," he said, "but we've got a very aggressive flight test program in front of us."
Air New Zealand is the launch customer for the larger version of the plane, the 787-9, which was due to be delivered this year. The airline will now have to wait until 2013 before it gets the first of its eight planes on order.
Boeing needs to produce 787s faster than it has any other large plane. Albaugh said its peak for large plane production was 92 of its then-new 747 in 1970.
By 2013 it hopes to make 120 787s per year, or 10 per month. Right now Boeing is making two per month, and should be up to two-and-a-half by August, Albaugh said.
Boeing's workhorse, the 737, faces increased competition. Right now Boeing basically has a duopoly with Airbus for planes that seat 126 to 149 people. But Bombardier, which mostly makes smaller jets, is developing a new plane called the CS300 which will seat 138 people as configured by Republic Airways in an order last month. That's comparable to the 737.
Albaugh said Boeing is thinking about putting a new engine on the 737 to make it competitive with newer planes. He said he expects a decision on that near the end of the year. Albaugh also said airline traffic is beginning to improve. "We think we'll see the airlines come back into the market in 2012," he said.

Going Boeing

14th Mar 2010, 08:22

This marks the beginning of the first flight-test operations outside of Washington state for the program
http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID26580_600.jpg
(Victorville, Calif., March 9, 2010) -- The second Boeing (NYSE: BA) 787 Dreamliner, ZA002, landed at 10:53 a.m. local time today in Victorville, Calif. This marks the beginning of the first flight-test operations outside of Washington state for the program.

The airplane will be stationed at Victorville for approximately three weeks. The crew will conduct ground effects testing among other activities.

During ground effects testing, the pilots fly the airplane very close to the runway to gather data regarding the aerodynamic effects and performance of the airplane during the takeoff and landing phases of flight. Quantifying this performance is part of the certification requirements for all new airplanes.

"Victorville's airfield is the former George Air Force Base," said Randy Neville, chief pilot for ZA002. "There is ample ramp space for parking and plenty of on-site facilities. There is a long runway and plenty of level, clear land along the approach to the runway. We can operate there without disrupting air traffic control or other commercial aircraft."

A crew of more than 150 employees will be stationed at Victorville while the airplane is there. These include the flight test engineers and support personnel required to prepare the airplane for each day's flights and to monitor performance and test equipment.

"Our confidence in the reliability of this airplane grows day by day," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "Taking the airplane out of state for the first time is a big step, but one we're ready for."

Taildragger67

15th Mar 2010, 05:28

... and they can always just leave it there if it doesn't work...

Don't get up, I'll see myself out

C441

15th Mar 2010, 06:39

... and they can always just leave it there if it doesn't work...
...or swap it for a couple of 767's and 747's recently parked there....

Going Boeing

15th Mar 2010, 08:50

Item by australianaviation.com.au on March 15, 2010 11:36 am

ZA003 flies. (Boeing)
The fourth Boeing 787 to join the flight test program, ZA003 N787BX, made its first flight from Everett’s Paine Field on March 14.
Captains Ray Craig and Mike Bryan were at the controls of ZA003 for the three hour, six minute flight, which took off from Paine Field at 10:55am local time and landed at Boeing Field, Seattle, at 2:01pm.
ZA003 is fitted with a partial passenger interior, and will be used to demonstrate that the 787’s interior meets certification requirements. Boeing says ZA003 will also be used for systems, noise, flightdeck operations, avionics, electromagnetic effect, high intensity radion frequency response and ETOPS testing.
ZA003 is the last of four Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 powered 787 flight test aircraft to fly. Two further General Electric GEnx powered 787s (ZA005 and ZA006) will also join the flight test program.
To date all four flying 787s have accumulated 288 flying hours on 96 flight tests. ZA001 has flown 57 times, ZA002 37 times, and ZA004 and now ZA003 once each.

Going Boeing

30th Mar 2010, 01:52

http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID26935_600.jpg
The initial results of the ultimate-load test are positive. More extensive analysis and review are required before the test can be deemed a success

(Everett, Wash., March 28, 2010) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today completed the ultimate-load wing up-bending test on the 787 Dreamliner static test unit. During the testing, loads were applied to the airframe to replicate 150 percent of the most extreme forces the airplane is ever expected to experience while in service. The wings were flexed upward by approximately 25 feet (7.6 meters) during the test.

The initial results of the ultimate-load test are positive. More extensive analysis and review are required before the test can be deemed a success.

"The test program has been more robust than any conducted on a Boeing commercial jetliner," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "It has taken countless hours of hard work by the Boeing team and our partners to work through the static test program. Everyone who has been involved in this effort over the past several years should be very proud of their contributions to ensuring the safety of the 787 Dreamliner.

"We are looking forward to the technical team's report on the details of the test results," said Fancher. It will take them several weeks to work through all of the data.

During each second of the more than two-hour test, thousands of data points were collected to monitor the performance of the wing. Key data points are monitored real-time during the test, but all of the data will be evaluated in the weeks ahead.

787 Dreamliner Background

The 787 Dreamliner is an all-new twinjet designed to meet the needs of airlines around the world in providing nonstop service between mid-size cities with new levels of efficiency. The airplane will bring improved levels of comfort to passengers with larger windows, bigger baggage bins and advances in the cabin environment, including lower cabin altitude, higher humidity and cleaner air. Delivery of the first 787 is planned for the fourth quarter of 2010.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Bullethead

30th Mar 2010, 02:36

It would be interesting to know what equivalent 'G' loading that amount of wing deflection represents. I'd hazard a guess and say it is probably not achieveable and even if it was would not be surviveable.

Anyone got any idea?

Regards,
BH.

Pedota

31st Mar 2010, 06:14

Looks like the stretch version may be back in consideration . . . from today's Airline Transport World.

Bernstein: 787-10 could be back on the table

Airline Transport World
Wednesday March 31, 2010

by Geoffrey Thomas

Boeing's proposed 787-10 stretch may be back on the radar as the 787 and 747-8 programs are retiring risk, according to a new report from New York-based Bernstein Research.

The report, released yesterday, also highlights concerns that the 787 may be falling behind on its flight test hr., although Boeing remains within the margin to enable the first three aircraft to be delivered to ANA by year end.

Following meetings with Boeing management, Bernstein said the manufacturer is "more confident about potential 787 weight reduction, which has made the second stretch airplane, the 787-10, again a possibility." The research group noted that it "does not know specifically where the 787 stands on weight" but that Boeing expressed confidence that later airplanes will meet performance requirements.

"One measure of progress on the 787's weight is that management is again looking at the possibility of a second stretch, i.e., a 787-10," Bernstein stated. It sees the derivative, along with a 777 rework, as part of the manufacturer's response to the A350-1000.

It is generally accepted that the 787-8 was overdesigned for a high margin of error on structure and lightning protection. The view at Boeing "is that there should be substantial potential to take out structural weight," Bernstein said. Airlines originally were pushing for a 50-seat stretch over the 787-9 with identical 8,500-nm. range, while Boeing wanted a straight payload/range trade with a 7,000-nm. range (ATWOnline, July 10, 2007).

The Bernstein report raised concerns about rework given that 30 787s and 15 747-8s will be complete before certification programs are concluded. It noted that "the potential for significant rework still exists on both programs. The discovery last week in 747-8 test flight of buffeting due to airflow over the landing gear door is an example." That problem, however, is regarded as minor.

It said the overall risk of substantial rework on the 787 has come down significantly after successful flutter/stability control flight tests and structural static wing tests (ATWOnline, March 30).

Going Boeing

8th Apr 2010, 23:36

(Everett, Wash., April 7, 2010) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) announced today that all test requirements were successfully met during the 787 Dreamliner's ultimate load wing and fuselage bending test. This follows a thorough analysis of the results from a test on the 787 static test airframe.

"Successfully completing this test is a critical step in the certification of the 787. This is further validation that the 787 performs as expected, even in the most extreme circumstances," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program for Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

On March 28, loads were applied to the test unit to replicate 150 percent of the most extreme forces the airplane is ever expected to experience while in service. The wings were flexed upward by approximately 25 feet (7.6 meters) during the test and the fuselage was pressurized to 150 percent of its maximum normal operating condition.

In evaluating the success criteria for the test, Boeing specialists have been poring over the thousands of data points collected during the test to ensure that all parts of the airplane performed as expected.

"The airframe performed as designed and retained the required structural integrity. These results continue to validate the design of the 787 as we move toward certification," explained Fancher.
Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Wod

9th Apr 2010, 00:44

As a follow up to the stress test story

From: The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/)
April 09, 2010 12:00AM
QANTAS is hoping for an earlier delivery of its Boeing 787s after Boeing confirmed this week the success of a dramatic and crucial test. Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said Qantas was still working with Boeing on exact arrival dates but was hopeful of getting the aircraft close to the original date of 2013, rather than the revised 2014.

skybed

9th Apr 2010, 00:50

then sort out all expected bugs ending up with more delyas, cancelled flights and bad PR. good one joicy:=

400Rulz

11th Apr 2010, 12:59

Oh Pleeze. U sound just like one of our deranged ex-flight engineers....

400Rulz

11th Apr 2010, 13:17

Maybe I spent too many years in the Airforce flying Rolls powered rubbish. Perhaps too many years in the A/F and AirNZ doing the same. Just seems funny we have less probs with the CF6 (in-flight) than the RB211. But I'm not a vagineer. I just turnem' and burnem....

atiuta

12th Apr 2010, 07:42

Too many years in the Air Force flying RR rubbish?

But I thought you said that;

When ANZ was short of pilots in '88, I landed a job with 960 hours (mostly multi IR).

Curious as to what RR aircraft you flew for "years" in the Air Force that gave you "960 hours (mostly multi IR)" in '88?

Going Boeing

12th Apr 2010, 09:02

He may mean "Allison" engines which became a subsidiary of Rolls Royce some years later (1995). That would make him either a Trash-hauler or a Fish-head. :)

The only other RNZAF aircraft that I can think of that use RR engines are the MB339C and the B757 but they came after 1988.

slamer.

12th Apr 2010, 10:41

Mommy, Mommy... he's calling me names....:{:{

Going Boeing

22nd Apr 2010, 08:27

http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID27447_600.jpg
The U.S. FAA granted Boeing expanded type inspection authorization (TIA) today

(Everett, Wash., April 20, 2010) -- The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) granted Boeing (NYSE: BA) expanded type inspection authorization (TIA) today, clearing the way for its personnel to fully participate in future test flights and for the collection of required flight-test data. Initial TIA was granted Feb. 11, which supported the collection of flutter certification data.

The expanded TIA marks the FAA's confirmation that the airplane and team are ready to collect additional certification data. Boeing achieved the expansion by demonstrating the readiness of the airplane throughout a variety of speeds, altitudes and configurations.

"This TIA expansion is another significant step toward delivering airplanes to our customers. We remain on track to deliver the first airplane to ANA this year," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program, Commercial Airplanes.

In addition to receiving expanded TIA, Boeing finalized the aerodynamic configuration of the 787.

"We have completed sufficient testing to decide that no additional changes to the external lines or shape of the airplane are required," said Fancher. "Having an airplane match its expected performance with so few changes is rare and speaks to the maturity of the design."

The 787 flight-test fleet logged its 500th hour of flying April 16. On Sunday, ZA003, the flight-test airplane outfitted with interior elements, landed in Florida, where it will go through extreme weather testing at McKinley Climatic Laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Going Boeing

16th May 2010, 23:34

http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID27957_600.jpg
(Everett, Wash., May 12, 2010) -- The first General Electric GEnx engines on a Boeing (NYSE: BA) 787 Dreamliner came to life Monday with initial engine starts. Customers can choose between the GEnx engines and the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines to power their 787s.

"This is another exciting step in our progress on the 787 test program," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 Program, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Our partners at GE have worked diligently to ensure their engines are ready for the testing that is going to occur both before first flight of ZA005 and throughout the flight test program."

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

ANA Pilots 1st Customer Crew to Fly Boeing 787 Dreamliner

(Seattle, May 13, 2010) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) and two ANA (All Nippon Airways) pilots flew the Boeing 787 Dreamliner for the first time Wednesday. The airplane they flew is the first of six flight-test airplanes. The two-hour-and-40-minute flight took place over Washington state.

Flying the 787 for the first time were ANA pilots Capt. Masayuki Ishii, director of 787 pre-operations planning, and Capt. Masami Tsukamoto, manager of 787 pre-operations pilots. On board were Capt. Mike Carriker, Boeing 787 chief test pilot, Capt. Christine Walsh and Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program, Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

"The flight was a customer demonstration for our launch customer's lead pilots to evaluate the 787," said Fancher. "We are extremely proud to have ANA on the flight, and have the opportunity to show what a great airplane the men and women of Boeing have created."

The flight was conducted under a special airworthiness certificate granted by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration.

The 787 program was launched in April 2004 with a record order of 50 787's from ANA. ANA, which plays an active role as launch customer, is scheduled to take the first 787 delivery in the fourth quarter 2010.

During the flight, both pilots performed multiple takeoffs and landings as well as other maneuvers that allowed them to feel the airplane's characteristics. The pilots also gained experience with other 787 flight-deck features, including larger display screens, dual head-up displays and dual electronic flight bag.

"It was fantastic and an incredible experience," said Capt. Ishii. "ANA passengers are in for an incredible experience when they fly on the 787," he said.

"The flight was fantastic," said Capt. Tsukamoto. "I've been waiting for this day since we made the launch order, and today my dream came true."

During the flight, Carriker showed the ANA pilots, who are both rated on the Boeing 777, the similarities and differences between the two airplanes. Pending regulator approval, it will take as few as five days of training for 777 pilots to become qualified as 787 pilots.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

smiling monkey

17th May 2010, 00:43

Pending regulator approval, it will take as few as five days of training for 777 pilots to become qualified as 787 pilots.

Pity Qantas never ordered the 777. Will the Qantas/Jetstar 787 crews come from those with previous Boeing experience only or will the current Airbus crews get a look in as well?

And when will a 787 simulator be available to commence training of crews?

ANCDU

17th May 2010, 02:19

monkey,

Apparently the simulator is built and ready to go, with a bay reserved at the Essendon Flight Training center, but it has been disasembled and placed in storage due to the delay on delivery.

Not sure if boeing or airbus crew will crew it first, i guess it won't matter as J* are due to receive the first aircraft and they will train first. There is supposed to be a reduced course for those on the 738 due to similarity in avionics and HGS presentation, also one for the 767 but i have no idea of the length of the conversion course.

I guess all the answers will be provided when it arrrives!:ok:

RFN

17th May 2010, 02:42

Jobs for the "boys" first lads, jobs for the boys...

Going Boeing

17th May 2010, 04:31

Qantas has ordered two firm and three option B787 simulators.

I doubt that Jetstar Asia will have to pay Qantas anything when their crews use them.

ernestkgann

17th May 2010, 05:28

That's great news for those current and qualified on the B777:)

Jabawocky

28th May 2010, 05:29

May 27, 2010 — Boeing’s newest airliner, the 787 Dreamliner, rendezvoused with the company’s first one, a 1928 Boeing Model 40, earlier this month in the skies over Mount Rainier south of Seattle. The Boeing 40, owned, restored, and flown by Addison Pemberton, EAA 154948, of Spokane, is the only flyable Model 40 in the world and is the oldest flying Boeing aircraft of any kind. Boeing Chief Test Pilot Mike Carriker, EAA 505412, maneuvered the 787, ZA001, into formation with the Model 40 at 12,000 feet. Photographer Ryan Pemberton, EAA 865559, in an A36 Bonanza, then lined up to take the photos. (To learn more about how they did it, click here (http://www.antiqueairfield.com/articles/show/593-how-the-boeing-40-787-photo-shoot-was-done).)
“It really took a lot of work and planning,” Carriker said. “When I came alongside the Model 40 against those big puffy clouds it was unbelievable. Here is this 1928 biplane flying with a 2010 airplane side by side. It was really exciting.”
The Model 40 won the Antique Grand Champion at AirVenture Oshkosh 2008, and was the subject of this video (http://www.eaa.org/video/eaa.html?videoId=1618638475). Join the discussion about the flight on Oshkosh365 (http://www.oshkosh365.org/ok365_DiscussionBoardTopic.aspx?id=1235&boardid=147&forumid=180&topicid=4404) as well as on EAA’s Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/EAAHQ).

Cool pics here

How the Boeing 40 / 787 Photo Shoot Was Done (http://www.antiqueairfield.com/articles/show/593-how-the-boeing-40-787-photo-shoot-was-done)

caneworm

28th May 2010, 05:52

ANCDU said,
"Not sure if boeing or airbus crew will crew it first..."

It will be crewed by the lowest bidder, where they come from is irrelevant.

who.ru

28th May 2010, 07:24

During the flight, Carriker showed the ANA pilots, who are both rated on the Boeing 777, the similarities and differences between the two airplanes. Pending regulator approval, it will take as few as five days of training for 777 pilots to become qualified as 787 pilots.

Well regardless of what ever Boeing said, it will be impossible for any ANA or Japanese pilot to do a 5 day transition (even a three month transition), as the Japanese Civil Aviation Bereau will never recognise a Boeing differences course, and it will end up being a standard Japanese 6 month transition even from the 777. As Boeing, and any pilot who has ever worked in Japan, well know. But either way it sounds good from a promo point of view.

Going Boeing

5th Jul 2010, 01:59

Boeing reached this milestone after years of collaboration with airline customers and partners
http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID28931_600.jpg
(Everett, Wash., July 1, 2010) -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today announced the completion of firm configuration for the 787-9 Dreamliner. Boeing reached this milestone after years of collaboration with airline customers and partners to determine the optimal configuration for the new stretch version of the Dreamliner.

"Firm configuration means the airplane's structural, propulsion and systems architectures are defined and not changing," said Mark Jenks, vice president of 787-9 development, Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

Boeing has completed the trade studies required to finalize the airplane's overall capability and basic design, allowing the airplane manufacturer and its suppliers to begin detailed design of parts, assemblies and other systems for the 787-9. As detailed designs are completed and released, production can begin. The first 787-9 delivery is scheduled for late 2013.

"We have a disciplined process in place to ensure we have completed all of the requirements for the development stage of the program," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "The team has done a fantastic job to get us through this important milestone."

The 787-9 is the second member of the 787 family. A slightly bigger version of the 787-8, the airplane will seat 250-290 passengers, 16 percent more than the 787-8. The 787-9 will have a range of 8,000 to 8,500 nautical miles (14,800 to 15,750 km).

"We have been working closely with our customers for years to reach this milestone," said Mark Jenks, vice president of 787-9 development. "We are excited about the performance and capability this airplane will offer our customers."

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

slamer.

20th Jul 2010, 00:56

Dreamliner's arrival builds buzz at show

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/AP100719014015_220x14731754.jpg (http://javascript:ExpandArticleImage();)

Boeing's long-anticipated 787 jet touched down on British soil yesterday, tipping its wings to the crowd and building buzz at the Farnborough International Airshow, the industry's premier event.
The arrival of the blue-and-white 787 Dreamliner after years of delay underlined hopes that the two-year downturn in the aviation and defence industry is nearing a bottom.
Boeing chief executive Jim McNerney claimed the 787 would be "the way planes are going to be built for the next 80 years".
But he acknowledged delivery of the aircraft - already more than two years overdue because of production problems - could slip into next year. He blamed administrative delays. "End of the year is the plan," he said. "There could be some paperwork that pushes it into next year."
Concerns remain about the slow global economic recovery and sharp cuts to national defence budgets.
New orders for commercial aircraft are likely to be restrained and restricted to buyers from strong emerging markets in the Middle East and Asia, while activity on the defence side of the show is expected to be muted.
Boeing and its archrival Airbus, meanwhile, head into the event facing growing challenges to their duopoly in the mid-sized civilian jet market from smaller manufacturers, including Canada's Bombardier and Brazil's Embraer.
Analysts, who are looking to Farnborough to take the pulse of the industry's health, expect the event to be more upbeat than last year's sister show in Le Bourget outside Paris.
But they aren't holding their breath for commercial plane orders anywhere near the record-breaking US$88.7 billion ($125.5 billion) worth announced in Farnborough in 2008. "A lot depends on if the economic recovery continues. If there is a double dip in the recession, then all bets are off," said Forecast International analyst Raymond Jaworowski.
"We should start to see orders accelerate late this year."
The Geneva-based International Air Transport Association has forecast that global industry profits will reach US$2.5 billion this year, compared with last year's huge US$9.4 billion loss.
Analysts expect Asia and North America to lead the recovery, with Europe lagging behind. Strikes at some airlines, the debt crisis and the volcanic ash cloud that caused major disruptions in the northern spring are all hurting Europe's recovery.
More than 1000 exhibitors from 38 countries have signed up for Farnborough, with delegations from Egypt, Taiwan and Morocco attending for the first time.
Organisers also cited stronger interest from major players China and Russia.
Among likely buyers at the show are Emirates airline, the largest in the Gulf states, and Qatar Airways, which is looking to equip a new low-cost carrier in the region.
Emirates is preparing to announce a "substantial deal" at Farnborough as early as today, according to a source who was not authorised to discuss the plan publicly.
The source would neither confirm nor deny reports that the company, already the world's biggest Boeing 777 operator, was ordering as many as 30 more of the aircraft.
ATR, an Italian-French aircraft manufacturer based in Toulouse and owned by EADS parent Airbus and Finmeccanica, may announce some turboprop orders.
Boeing last week downplayed the likelihood of big deals at Farnborough, stressing it didn't save up orders for international shows - a dig at Airbus' tendency in recent years to announce a block of attention-grabbing announcements at Farnborough and Le Bourget.
"At the end of the day, what matters is where we are at the end of the year, or over the longer term," said Randy Tinseth, Commercial Airplanes vice-president for marketing.
Airbus chief salesman John Leahy was more upbeat about the show, which runs from July 19-25 at an airfield about 50km west of London.
He said he had bet EADS head Louis Gallois "that we'll more than double" the 131 gross orders Airbus had made to the end of June.
Potentially of more interest to industry watchers are emerging signs that the old duopoly of Chicago-based Boeing and EADS-owned Airbus in the commercial plane-making market is on the wane, particularly in the lucrative single-aisle, narrow-body sector.
Boeing and Airbus account for more than two-thirds of output and 40 per cent of sales in the sector at present, but smaller rivals are stepping up - Bombardier picked up a strong 80-plane order this year from Republic Airways Holding for its C-Series.
"We have new competitors now," Gallois acknowledged, while adding that Bombardier and China's state-owned Comac were still years from making a dent in the markets for the Airbus A320 and Boeing 737. Bombardier's C-Series is on track for its first delivery in 2013.
Comac is readying for a 2016 first delivery date of its C919. Russia's Irkut and Brazil's Embraer are also rising contenders.
Boeing is hoping to retain some of the limelight with the international debut of its fuel-efficient 787. The announcement that its first planned delivery of the aircraft - to Japan's ANA - might be delayed by inspections and instrument changes was a setback, but the sight of one of five of the test planes landing at Farnborough yesterday - the first time one has left United States airspace - was a major draw.
Scott Fancher, a Boeing vice-president and general manager of the 787 programme, said the company took advantage of the opportunity to conduct more flight testing.
"We're taking every opportunity to complete our testing requirements when we fly," Fancher said.
Boeing officials took journalists and United States congressmen on a tour of the 787's cabin, where they chatted with pilots and engineers and played with the dimmer switch on the plane's windows.
Also on show at Farnborough will be another aircraft with a troubled and lengthy production history - Airbus' long-delayed A400M military transport plane.
Britain has already scaled down its order for the four-propeller military transport plane, which will take part in the daily flying display at Farnborough.
Airbus expects to start delivering A400Ms sometime after December 2012 - about four years behind schedule and 50 per cent over budget because of technical glitches.
The original seven customer nations for the aircraft - Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Spain and Turkey - agreed with Airbus' parent European Aeronautic Defence Space in March to spend an additional €3.5 billion ($6.39 billion) to save the project after months of bickering about who should pay for cost overruns.
The project is a high-profile symbol of the problems facing the defence industry amid budget cutbacks.
In the United States, the world's biggest single defence market, the Pentagon is looking to trim US$100 billion of savings from personnel and procurement over the next five years.
In Britain, Europe's largest market, the Government is considering cuts of up to 20 per cent. Analysts will also be watching for developments in the bitter Boeing-Airbus battle to win a US$35 billion contest to provide aerial tankers to the United States Air Force - the World Trade Organisation ruled this month that European governments gave Airbus illegal subsidies for the project.
McNerney said Boeing would like to get the dispute "behind us, but we would like it to be behind us in the right way".
Gallois said at the weekend that he was "enormously frustrated" with the World Trade Organisation, which he claimed was being "unfair" by delaying its report on complaints against Boeing.

Going Boeing

18th Oct 2010, 20:22

Mechanics loaded the forward and aft fuselage sections to join with the wing and center section
http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID31203_600.jpg
Everett, Wash. - Boeing [NYSE: BA] moved closer this week toward completing assembly of the first 747-8 Intercontinental as mechanics in Everett, Wash., loaded the forward and aft fuselage sections to join with the wing and center section.

The 747-8 fuselage is 250 feet 2 inches (76.3 meters) long, which is 18 feet 4 inches (5.6 meters) longer than the 747-400. The stretch provides space for 51 additional seats to accommodate 467 passengers in a typical three-class configuration and offers 26 percent more cargo volume.

"Final body join is an important milestone for the 747 program," said Pat Shanahan, vice president and general manager of Airplane Programs in Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "It is a major step toward completing the structural integration and building out our all-new interior. We now have the first real look at the size and distinctive shape of the 747-8 Intercontinental. This is going to be a superb airplane for our customers both from an aesthetic and a performance perspective."

The 747-8 is the new high-capacity 747 that will give airlines the lowest operating costs and best economics of any large airplane while providing enhanced environmental performance. The airplane also features a 787 Dreamliner-inspired interior that will offer passengers a greater feeling of space and comfort.

The 747 program has orders for 109 747-8 Freighter and Intercontinental airplanes. Thirty-three of those are for the 747-8 Intercontinental, with orders coming from Lufthansa, Korean Air and eight VIP customers. The first 747-8 Intercontinental delivery is scheduled for late 2011 to a VIP customer.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

Jabawocky

4th Nov 2010, 04:19

These seemed to work out pretty well.

8nKFGQCAg3c

Section28- BE

10th Nov 2010, 01:24

It's all go at the moment with engines- ex 'NewsCore' via The Courier Mail site:

Boeing Dreamliner 787 test flight makes emergency landing in Texas

By staff writers
From: NewsCore
November 10, 2010 9:48AMA BOEING 787 Dreamliner aircraft made an emergency landing in Laredo, Texas today during a test flight after smoke was reported in the cabin.

After the pilot noticed smoke, "the crew continued its approach and landed safely at the airport," Boeing spokeswoman Lori Gunter told NewsCore."Emergency personnel responded. The crew safely evacuated the airplane."
The 30-plus people aboard the aircraft were taken off using emergency slides, The Seattle Times reported.
Ms Gunter said it was too early to determine whether the incident would change the long-delayed aircraft's delivery schedule.
Laredo is approximately 241km southeast of San Antonio, on the border with Mexico.

Going Boeing

10th Nov 2010, 02:47

Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2013387936_787emergency10.html?prmid=related_stories_section ) & Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703523604575605100601208676.html?mod=googlen ews_wsj)

OK, I'll speculate here - B787 deliveries delayed further. AJ makes decision that JQ will stay an all Airbus operation (including A332 HGW versions for J* Asia) and QF mainline gets B777's (in lieu of further compensation from Boeing) to replace it's tired fleet. AJ also considers B747-8 Intercontinental in lieu of the last eight A380's. :)

Also, the stack of B787's grows: B787 Park (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2013154266_boeing14.html?prmid=obinsource)

Mr. Hat

10th Nov 2010, 03:20

Jon Ostrowers Flight Blogger:

Breaking: Smoke in ZA002's cabin forces evacuation (Update4) - FlightBlogger - Aviation News, Commentary and Analysis (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2010/11/breaking-smoke-in-za002s-cabin.html)

By Jon Ostrower on November 9, 2010 6:38 PM | Permalink | Comments (11) | TrackBacks (0)|ShareThis

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/4961200355_7761ebdddc.jpg

Smoke in the cabin of ZA002, Boeing's second 787 flight test aircraft prompted an evacuation of the 30-plus test personnel on board. The test aircraft was enroute to Harlingen, Texas for trials of the aircraft's nitrogen generation system, when smoke was seen in the main cabin. Boeing says ZA002 "continued its approach and landed safely in Laredo, Texas." Adding that the "crew evacuated the airplane safely."

Update 6:57 PM ET: Boeing says ZA002 is on the ground in Laredo, Texas with its evacuation slides deployed. Boeing is "continuing to collect data" on the source of the smoke, which is currently unknown. The FAA says the aircraft landed at 2:54 PM Central Time.

Update 7:30 PM ET: A source familiar with the incident says ZA002 touched down in Laredo after a fire broke out in the aft electronics equipment bay causing the flight deck primary flight displays and auto throttle to fail, additionally the ram air turbine was deployed on landing. The aircraft landed in visual flight rules (VFR) conditions.

Update 8:04 PM ET: Hamilton Sundstrand, which is responsible for the 787's electrical system, says it is in touch with Boeing and is participating in the investigation. A spokesman for the company had no additional details regarding the incident.

Update 10:56 PM ET: Program sources say all planned flight test for Wednesday have been postponed until Thursday at the earliest. ZA001, ZA005 and ZA006 have been shifted to ground tests as a result of ZA002's in-flight fire. ZA003 and ZA004 had been previously scheduled to conduct ground testing.

This is a developing story and will be updated.

Going Boeing

9th Mar 2011, 02:10

787 Program Continues Steady Progress Toward Certification and Delivery
http://www.asdnews.com/data_news/ID33995_600.jpg
Everett, Wash. - Today, Boeing (NYSE: BA) began change incorporation work on the 787 Dreamliner at Boeing's Global Services & Support site in San Antonio, Texas. Airplane #23, the first 787 to undergo change incorporation, on Friday flew from Everett, Wash., to San Antonio on a ferry flight. During change incorporation, airplanes that are not part of flight test are configured to conform with the standards established as part of type certification efforts. Refurbishment of three of the six 787 flight test airplanes also will take place in San Antonio after completion of flight test activities.

"The 787 team is thrilled to have the expertise and enthusiasm of the San Antonio team focused on getting these airplanes ready for delivery to our customers," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program.

The current plan is for six Dreamliners to complete change incorporation and refurbishment in San Antonio. Three will complete change incorporation and three airplanes will be refurbished after flight test is complete. However, the plan is flexible and could accommodate additional 787 production needs as flight test is completed and airplanes are prepared for delivery. The work will be performed from March 2011 through 2013.

"We continuously look for ways to leverage the strength of the Boeing enterprise, taking advantage of the team and the skills we have across the company," said Fancher. "San Antonio specializes in modification work and has the capability and capacity to get the job done. The team was a natural choice."

Some of the work done in San Antonio will include installing electronic and mechanical equipment, completing software upgrades, testing functional systems, and removing and reworking wiring or equipment that needs to be updated to current configuration requirements. Approximately 450 employees will be hired on a temporary basis to join with 1,700 experienced workers at the site to complete the work.

"Everyone on our team is excited to join the 787 program," said Kevin Devine, vice president and general manager of the San Antonio site. "This airplane is about as advanced as you can get and there are high expectations tied to this work package. I am confident that our team will get the job done."

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)
============================================================ ===========================================
Boeing, Air China Sign Agreement for 747-8 Intercontinentals

Air China to become first Chinese customer for Boeing's newest jumbo jet

Hong Kong - Boeing (NYSE: BA) and Air China today signed an agreement for the purchase of five 747-8 Intercontinental jetliners. Air China is the first Chinese carrier to contract the passenger version of the new, fuel-efficient 747-8.

The agreement requires Chinese government approval, at which time it will be posted to the Boeing Orders & Deliveries website.

"Air China has been operating 747s since the 1980s," said He Li, vice president of Air China. "The new, high capacity Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental will deliver exceptional economics and a great flying experience to our customers."

Air China, the flag carrier of the People's Republic of China, will use the airplanes to expand its international routes.

"The technologically advanced 747-8 Intercontinental will deliver improved operating economics, efficiency and environmental performance in support of Air China's continued growth," said Marlin Dailey, vice president of Sales & Marketing, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Air China has become one of the fastest growing airlines in the world and today is one of the world's largest carriers. We're proud to be part of their success and look forward to continuing our long and enduring partnership."

The new 747-8 Intercontinental carries 467 passengers in a three-class configuration. The airplane features a new wing design and an upgraded flight deck. The airplane interior incorporates features from the 787 Dreamliner including a new curved, upswept architecture that will give passengers a greater sense of space and comfort, while adding more room for personal belongings. The architecture will be accentuated by lighting technology that provides smooth transitions for a more restful flight.

Using 787-technology GEnx-2B engines, the airplane will be quieter, produce lower emissions and achieve better fuel economy than any competing jetliner. It also increases cargo volume by 26 percent.

Source : The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)

neville_nobody

19th Mar 2011, 02:04

Some positive spin coming from the Boeing camp but the 787 is just one problem after another.

Proves the old addage, 'If you want something done properly do it yourself'

Boeing to miss 787 performance spec: Albaugh (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/03/15/354340/boeing-to-miss-787-performance-spec-albaugh.html)

Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Jim Albaugh, for the first time, has acknowledged that the 787 will miss its intended performance specifications, though the majority composite jet will still meet the mission requirements of its customers.

"I'll be the first to admit that we're not going to meet the spec, but I think we'll be able to meet what our guarantees are," said Albaugh today at the International Society of Transport Aircraft Trading (ISTAT) conference in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Boeing's current spec calls for the aircraft to fly 14,200km to 15,200km (7,650nm to 8,200nm) range at maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) of 227,930kg (502,500lb) with 242 passengers in a three-class configuration.

Albaugh says "the first airplanes are going to be a little heavy" and the company has engine and airframe performance improvement packages to "clean the airplane up".

He adds: "I feel pretty comfortable that over time we'll be able to get to [14,800km (8,000nm) range]." However, adds Albaugh, "When that date's going to be, I can't tell you."

Originally designed to fly 14,200km to 15,200km with a maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) of 219,540kgs (484,000lbs), the MTOW has creeped up to 227,900kg (502,500lbs) in part to regain the aircraft's payload range performance, starting with Airplane 20.

Mike Bair, who currently heads Boeing's 737 advanced development effort, said in a recent interview that the 787 would achieve "high teens in terms of fuel burn" advantage over the 767 and "high single digits in terms of cash operating costs," but adds: "It would've been higher, but we decided to trade some of that currency for payload range, so to give the airlines an opportunity to work the revenue side of the equation."

Both 787 engine suppliers Rolls-Royce and General Electric are working on improvement packages for their respective engines. Rolls-Royce will introduce its 'Package B' model, expected to bring the Trent 1000 engine within 1% of originally planned specification, while GE is currently flight testing its Product Improvement Package (PIP1) on its 747-100 test bed.

The Rolls-Royce 'Package B' Trent 1000 includes a revisedsix-stage low pressure turbine (LPT) design, high-aspect-ratio blades, relocation of the intermediate-pressure (IP) compressor bleed offtake ports and a fan outlet guide vanes with improved aerodynamics. Boeing says the Package B configuration has not yet flown on any of the 787 test aircraft.

Further, industry officials suggest that Rolls-Royce is working on a 'Package C' engine intended to further improve engine performance on the larger 787-9.

GE says PIP1, which includes a revised low pressure turbine (LPT), will be test flown on ZA005 mid-year. The revision increases the blade, vane and nozzle count after a weight-saving reduction in these areas reduced performance. PIP1 is believed to bring the GEnx-1B engine within 1% of planned specification, say industry officials.

A second PIP2, which features aerodynamic improvements to the high pressure compressor (HPC), has been in ground testing since December and GE expects to flight test the changes in the second half of 2011.Certification of these changes is likely in the first quarter of 2012, followed by entry into service in late 2012, says GE.

Japan's All Nippon Airways anticipates taking delivery of the first 787 in the third quarter of 2011.

Oakape

19th Mar 2011, 11:54

I feel pretty comfortable that over time we'll be able to get to [14,800km (8,000nm) range].

That's all well & good, but just how short of the target is it? Interesting that the article doesn't say!

Maybe they think everyone will be impressed with the statement that it will meet the mission requirements of it's customers & that Boeing are comfortable that they will be able to get to 8,000nm in the future.

Do they really think that the airlines are going to fall for the spin & won't want to know how far it will go, straight out of the box?

Capt Kremin

20th Mar 2011, 00:56

There are a few questions begged here. With a MTOW of 227t for the 787 and a MTOW of 185t for the 767, what exactly are Boeing referring to with the "high teens" improvement in fuel burn? Are they saying that technology improvements means the the 227t 787 burns, say 17% less fuel than a 185T 767????

slamer.

21st Mar 2011, 19:32

Boeing's biggest jumbo passes first test

5:30 AM Tuesday Mar 22, 2011

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201113/SCCZEN_AP110321125504_460x23065909.JPG The Boeing 747-8 after landing at Boeing Field in Seattle after making its first flight.

Boeing's newest and largest passenger plane has completed its first flight, marking another milestone as the company prepares to get the long-haul jumbo jet ready for the market by the end of the year.
The four-hour flight was the first in a months-long test programme that will log more than 600 flight hours in the next few months.
Two pilots flew the 747-8 Intercontinental from Paine Field across Washington state, rousing cheers from several thousand Boeing workers who watched.

Chief test pilot Captain Mark Feuerstein said the flight was clean and that the aircraft was "ready to go fly right now".
The plane, which has a new wing design and an upgraded flight deck, can carry up to 467 passengers with a range of about 8000 nautical miles.
The company expects to deliver the jet by the end of the year, said Elizabeth Lund, Boeing vice-president and general manager of the 747 programme.
A cargo version of the plane has been in flight tests for about a year.
Feuerstein and co-pilot Captain Paul Stemer guided the plane up to 20,000ft and travelled at about 250 knots, testing its handling and performance, including its manoeuvring abilities.
"It's one of the cleanest first-flight airplanes of a new design that I've seen," Feuerstein said. "It just went perfectly."

breakfastburrito

11th Jun 2011, 21:48

Japan may have no nuclear reactors running by next April -ministry

Japan's fuel bill would rise by more than $30 bln/year if all reactors shut
Some Japan communities wary of letting reactors restart after maintenance
All 19 reactors still running will need maintenance by April 2012

By Risa Maeda

TOKYO, June 8 (Reuters) - All 54 of Japan's nuclear reactors may be shut by next April, adding more than $30 billion a year to the country's energy costs, if communities object to plant operating plans due to safety concerns, trade ministry officials said on Wednesday.

Since the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, which triggered a radiation crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi plant north of Tokyo, concern among local authorities has kept nuclear generators from restarting at least four reactors that had been expected to come online after routine maintenance and inspection.

Several more reactors have since shut for regular maintenance, slashing Japan's nuclear generating capacity to just 17,580 megawatts, or only 36 percent of its registered nuclear capacity. [ID:nL3E7GD1AW]

In May, Japan's average nuclear run rate fell to 40.9 percent, the lowest in at least a decade and well below 62.1 percent a year earlier. [ID:nL3E7H80K1]

Before the quake and tsunami, which forced the closure of three other power plants in addition to Tokyo Electric Power Co's Fukushima Daiichi facility, nuclear power supplied about 30 percent of Japan's electricity.

Although a reactor is legally cleared for restart once it receives approval from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA), a trade ministry watchdog, nuclear operators always seek local government approvals as well, in recognition of the importance of support from the community around the plant.

If no reactors that shut for regular maintenance after the disaster are restarted, it would cost an extra 2.4 trillion yen ($30 billion) to make up lost power generation during the financial year to next March, a trade ministry estimate showed.

If all of Japan's reactors end up offline without any restarts, the extra cost would escalate to 3 trillion yen a year, reflecting the need to buy more fossil fuels from abroad while the use of renewable energy remains limited.

Among the 19 Japanese reactors that remain online, the last due to be shut for inspections -- on April 9, 2012 -- is the 1,356 megawatt No.6 reactor at Tokyo Electric's Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in northwestern Japan, a NISA official said. The reactor came out of its last maintenance period just two days before the March 11 disaster.

In Japan, nuclear generators currently must shut for inspection at least once every 13 months.

The maintenance period can vary widely, from a few months to more than a year, and the restart typically begins with a one- to two-month test run before advancing to commercial operation, which will require regulatory approval. ($1 = 80.075 Japanese Yen) (Reporting by Risa Maeda; Editing by Edmund Klamann)
Source: Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/09/japan-nuclear-reactors-idUSL3E7H81N220110609)

Approximately 35% of the B787 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner) is manufactured in Japan according to wikipedia. Will we see Boeing announce further delays?

slamer.

22nd Jun 2011, 03:28

Boeing signals new widebody to battle Airbus

Wednesday Jun 22, 2011

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201126/SCCZEN_A_071206splBOEING_220x147.JPG

Boeing is leaning toward a bigger version of the 787 Dreamliner as the United States company seeks to outmanoeuvre Airbus in a widebody jetliner market it reckons will be worth almost US$2 trillion ($2.4 trillion) over the next 20 years.
The 787-10 could enter service by 2016, Jim Albaugh, Boeing's commercial aeroplanes chief, said yesterday before the Paris Air Show.
That would provide competition for Airbus' A350-900 and steal a march on the larger A350-1000, which won't be ready until 2017.
"We have to go through some more analysis and we haven't decided yet if we'll offer it, but it wouldn't surprise me if we did," Albaugh said.
Building the 787-10 would help Boeing counter the A350's threat in markets where the company's 777 - which captured the first widebody orders at the show yesterday - is dominant, giving it a breathing space to upgrade a design that debuted in the 1990s.
The largest Dreamliner would seat as many as 330 people, versus 210 to 250 for the 787-8 variant currently in production, and 250 to 290 for the planned 787-9.

Airbus's A350-series planes will be able to carry between 250 and 400 passengers.
"The A350-900 is aimed directly at the 777-200ER, and the 787-10 would be a good way of defending that turf," said Richard Aboulafia, vice-president of consulting company Teal Group. "It means they can attack the replacement market, which is very important."
Boeing, based in Chicago, received the first major order at the Paris expo with a contract from Qatar Airways for six 777-300ER long-distance planes - worth US$1.7 billion at list prices.
Qatar Air, the second-biggest Middle Eastern carrier, has 25 777s with 15 more already due for delivery and regards the model as the "backbone" of its long-haul fleet, chief executive Akbar al Baker said yesterday.
Albaugh said separately that Boeing would have "a number of announcements" for orders at the Paris show this week.
Boeing is seeking to catch Airbus after its rival remained world No 1 last year, delivering a record 510 planes, 48 more than the US company. Airbus is also top by orders, winning contracts for 644 jets, with 70 cancellations giving a net intake of 574. Boeing won 530 net orders after 95 cancellations.
Toulouse-based Airbus is delaying introducing the A350-1000 by 18 months to add range and payload. The 787-10 wouldn't match that model for distance, said Nick Cunningham, an aerospace analyst at Agency Partners in London, but would fill a "high-capacity, shorter-range niche". It might appeal to carriers that had already signed up for the two smaller variants.
The 787-10 would be about 15 per cent bigger than the 787-9, seating about 40 more passengers, Boeing executives said. Its operating costs would be 10 per cent lower than the A350-900 and 5 per cent lower than the A350-1000, said Nicole Piasecki, head of business development.
"Our customers are very interested in this aeroplane, and we're in the process now of deciding when to put it into service," Piasecki said.
Boeing will evaluate the timetable and performance of the A350-1000 before reaching a conclusion regarding the 777.
"The issue is whether they decide to respond with a 777 upgrade or replacement," said Cunningham. "They won't do two programmes at the same time."
Aboulafia said a launch decision for the 787-10 wouldn't in itself protect the market taken by the longest-range 777.
"It's what you do a notch up from that that's the question," he said. "It's not quite the same as having a definitive answer on the 777-300ER front."
General Electric would begin testing a new compressor next year with a view to developing its GE90 engine in order to be ready when Boeing decided the next step for 777, GE Aviation chief executive David Joyce said in Paris.
Joyce said he was not surprised Airbus was delaying the A350-1000 so Rolls-Royce Holdings could improve the performance of the Trent XWB engine that powers the twinjet.
"It's playing out a lot like we thought it would," he said. "We never thought you could have one engine that spans the size of those aircraft."
A verdict on whether to offer an all-new narrowbody or opt to re-engine the 737 would be reached "probably by the end of the year", Albaugh said.
"We're not going to be rushed into a decision," he said.
"I don't think there has really been a delay. We're really trying to get this right. By the end of the year we should have a decision."

training wheels

4th Aug 2011, 04:26

Looks like it won't be long before the 787 is operational on an RPT flight ...

dB11CG6jZjM&NR=1

nitpicker330

4th Aug 2011, 06:10

Magnificent machine :ok:

Chimbu chuckles

4th Aug 2011, 07:15

I got to fly the 787 sim in Gatwick last year during the 777 course. VERY impressive piece of kit.:ok:

Capt Kremin

9th Aug 2011, 02:24

Maybe Boeing should have waited for this technology to mature!

Southampton engineers fly the world (http://www.soton.ac.uk/mediacentre/news/2011/jul/11_75.shtml)

B772

9th Aug 2011, 11:52

The ANA B787 configuration for long haul is 46J/112Y for a total of 158 passengers. This will be a comfortable plane.

BTW. Who is the long haired youngster Captain in the RHS of the video posted by training wheels ?.

High_To_Low

9th Aug 2011, 11:53

Any idea when the B787 is scheduled to make its first revenue flight?

B772

9th Aug 2011, 12:05

High_To_Low

The first commercial flight is expected to be an ANA charter flight from Haneda to Hong Kong sometime in September. The date of operation will be decided after the B787 is certified. The first ANA aircraft is ready for delivery.

High_To_Low

9th Aug 2011, 12:36

thanks B772 ;)

Captain Gidday

9th Aug 2011, 13:33

The ANA B787 configuration for long haul is 46J/112Y for a total of 158 passengers. This will be a comfortable plane
Fuel flow is 11400 lbs/hr @ 485Kts.

Damned if these guys haven't just reinvented the 707 with bigger fuel tanks!
707-320 1974 - 20P/120Y, with greater seat pitch than today's aircraft. Fuel flow was about 11400 lbs/hr @ 485 Kts.

dragon man

9th Aug 2011, 22:53

I stand to be corrected on this but i believe the Jetstar 787s will be configured for 310 seats. Compare this to ANAs 42 J class 112 Y international and 42 J and 180 Y domestically. How they think the punters will put up with the small pitch in Y class and i wonder if the seats will go back and no lie flat J class is beyond me.

waren9

9th Aug 2011, 23:14

Reconfig soon after you get the aircraft is not a new concept at Jetstar.:rolleyes:

18-Wheeler

9th Aug 2011, 23:45

Fuel flow is 11400 lbs/hr @ 485Kts.

Damned if these guys haven't just reinvented the 707 with bigger fuel tanks!
707-320 1974 - 20P/120Y, with greater seat pitch than today's aircraft. Fuel flow was about 11400 lbs/hr @ 485 Kts.

I'm guessing those fuel flow figures for the 787 would be for the total of both engines and the 707 would be for each engine? :)

slamer.

25th Sep 2011, 17:42

Dreamliner delivery for Japan, at last

6:15 AM Monday Sep 26, 2011

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201140/SCCZEN_AP110925005520_460x230.JPG

All Nippon Airways has been trumpeting its first 787 delivery status for years.

Boeing delivers its first 787 jet today. It's been a long time coming.
The jet, which was supposed to be flying passengers three years ago, has been delayed by production and design problems. But now it's here, and airlines expect it to offer travellers much more comfort, open up new routes and provide fuel savings.
The first one goes to Japan's All Nippon Airways, which has been printing the 787 logo and "We Fly 1st" on its business cards for years.
Airlines love the jet, which Boeing calls the Dreamliner. They've ordered more than 800, well above levels for previous jets.

"A lot of carriers are betting that this is going to be a winner," says George Hamlin, president of Hamlin Transportation Consulting in Fairfax, Virginia.
Instead of the usual aluminum skin, most of the 787 is covered in carbon fibre, basically a high-tech plastic that is strong but lightweight. Military planes and portions of other jetliners have used that material for years, but this is the first time so much has been used on an airliner. The material brings improvements that passengers should notice.
Its strength allows windows to be bigger and higher, so passengers don't have to hunch over to see the horizon.
Finally, the cabin is pressurised to the equivalent of 1800m, instead of the usual 2400m.
The first US customer is United Continental Holdings, which plans to fly its Dreamliners between Houston and Auckland, and Houston and Lagos, Nigeria.

Ushuaia

26th Sep 2011, 05:26

What are all those funny antennae down the whole length of the upper fuselage......? ;)

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. :p

Goat Whisperer

26th Sep 2011, 05:48

"What are all those funny antennae down the whole length of the upper fuselage......?"

lightning rods! FAA requirement for carbon fibre aircraft, the same sort of redesign that doomed the Beech Starship.

oldhasbeen

26th Sep 2011, 06:59

protect it from magpies swooping

fixitdude

26th Sep 2011, 10:57

Thats the latest in LED Logo Lights!!!

training wheels

26th Sep 2011, 22:08

The long awaited first delivery has taken place ...

XOnhfBbuB9g

22k

27th Sep 2011, 00:53

Anyone know what the initial rate of delivery will be like considering they had a fair few frames gathering dust out there? I would have thought they would be able to deliver 10-15 reasonably quickly.

Jabawocky

27th Sep 2011, 22:08

Word at the factory is that it is far from finnished, a publicity stunt, and the delays and resources being poured into this are causing the problems on the 748 line.

No doubt it will get sorted but it has been a big financial and PR disaster so far.

First revenue flight will be the true "day".

slamer.

27th Oct 2011, 19:55

Hong Kong welcomes first commercial Dreamliner flight

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201144/787_220x147.jpg (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/article.cfm?c_id=7&objectid=10762060#)

Passengers on the inaugural All Nippon Airways Boeing 787 flight are welcomed to Hong Kong.

Boeing's much-anticipated 787 carried its first passengers on a four-hour, eight-minute flight filled with cheers, picture-taking and swapping of aviation stories, yesterday.
The new long-haul jet aims to change the way passengers think about flying with larger windows, improved lighting and air pressure and humidity that more closely resembles that on the ground.
It's not the fastest or the largest jet but the plane, nicknamed The Dreamliner by Boeing, is built of lightweight materials that promise to dramatically improve fuel efficiency.
The first flight, from Tokyo to Hong Kong, was filled with 240 aviation reporters and enthusiasts - some of whom paid thousands of dollars for the privilege.
"It's silly, but it's a little piece of history. New cars come out all the time but how often do new planes come out?" said Stephanie Wood.
She and her husband Dean, of Davie, Florida, won a charity auction, paying nearly US$18,700 (NZ$23,353) for two business-class seats.

Another passenger paid US$32,000.
The most noticeable feature of the plane is its windows, which are 30 per cent larger than those on older jets. Passengers no longer need to hunch forwards to see the ground.
Those in the middle of the plane can even glance out part of the windows. The shades are replaced with a glare-reducing, electrical dimming system that adds tint to the window within 30 seconds.
"The windows are absolutely amazing. You're not confined. You've got the outside inside," Wood said.
The $193.5 million plane's debut was delayed more than three years because of manufacturing problems. But that didn't bother the fans who broke out in applause at every opportunity.
The highlight for many was a rainbow-coloured light show that transformed the sedate white interior into something closer to the Las Vegas strip.
Many of the 106 enthusiasts on board the flight by Japan's All Nippon Airways were carrying memorabilia from past inaugural flights and snapping photos of everything from the overhead bins to the bathroom with a window and bidet.
Thomas Lee, of Los Angeles, handed out his own press release and biography. There was his first inaugural flight - the Boeing 747 as a 17-year-old boy in 1970 - and then the Airbus A380 four years ago.
"I'm not crazy," he said.
"For an aviation enthusiast, this is as high as it gets. It's like going to a movie on opening day."
He and the rest of the coach passengers paid the apt sum of 78,700 yen (NZ$1289), to be part of the inaugural flight.
The 787 has been sold by Boeing as a "game changer," promising to revolutionise air travel just as its 707 did by allowing non-stop trans-Atlantic service and the 747 did by ushering in an age of mass travel.
The 787 is designed to connect cities that might otherwise not have non-stop flights.
Planes like the Boeing 747 and 777 and the Airbus A380 can fly most long-haul routes but finding enough daily passengers to fill the massive jets is a challenge.
The A380 typically has 525 passengers but can hold up to 853.
The 787 only carries 210 to 250 passengers. That means it can fly non-stop routes that larger planes can't profitably support like San Francisco to Manchester, England or Boston to Athens, Greece.
"It's going to be a hub-avoiding machine," said Ernie Arvai, partner with aviation consulting firm AirInsight.
"You'd pay extra not to go to (London's) Heathrow."
Connecting such smaller cities is the "holy grail" of air travel, said Richard Aboulafia, analyst with the Teal Group.
That's why the plane is the fastest-selling new jet in aviation history.
There were 821 orders for the 787 before its first flight, although 24 were recently cancelled by China Eastern Airlines because of delays.
Now, the industry is waiting to see if the plane meets Boeing's 20 per cent fuel-savings claims.
"If it performs as promised, it's the iPod of the aircraft world. If it doesn't, it's just another CD player," Aboulafia said.
ANA is the first airline to fly the plane and expects to have seven of them by the end of the year.
United Continental Holdings Inc. will be the first US carrier to fly the 787, sometime in the second half of 2012. It's planning to use the plane between Houston and Auckland, New Zealand.
There will probably be a short period when United - which ordered 50 of the jets - uses its first 787 on domestic or short trans-Atlantic flights. To make the Auckland route work, it will need a second 787 flying in the other direction.
For passengers, the changes start with boarding. They enter into a wide-open area with sweeping arches. Eyes instinctively move up. There's an impression of more space. Claustrophobia is reduced just a bit, even if seats are as cramped as ever.
Another physiological trick: lights gradually change colour during long flights to reduce jet lag.
But the biggest changes come thanks to the stronger composite shell, which is less susceptible to corrosion than aluminium.
Air won't be as dry, with humidity doubled to 16 per cent. The cabin will be pressurised at the equivalent of 6000 feet - 2000 less than most planes. That should lead to fewer headaches and leave passengers with more energy during long trips.
A number of passengers said yesterday's flight was too short to notice any improvement.
Other changes for passengers include:
* The largest overhead bins ever. They are designed at an angle to make the cabin feel significantly larger. Boeing says there's enough room overhead for every passenger to have one carry-on bag; however, the only way that seemed feasible was with identically rectangle bags, stacked in the optimal order.
* Less noise. New engines with a wave pattern around the exhaust reduce interior and exterior noise, although Boeing won't say by how much. Since the plane is lighter, additional sound and vibration padding can be added. Yesterday's flight appeared quieter, but a hand-held sound meter registered noise levels similar to Boeing's 777.
* Later models will have a turbulence dampening system. Accelerometers in the nose register a sudden drop. A signal is sent in nano seconds via fibre-optic cables to the wings. Adjustments are made and what would have been a nine-foot drop is cut to three feet.
Most passengers don't know the make or model of their plane, unless they read the safety instruction card. The 787's interior is likely to change that. Even those who don't fly it, are likely to notice.
Hundreds of employees at Hong Kong airport stopped working to watch - and take photos - of yesterday's arrival.
"We're celebrities," said passenger Lee Simonetta of Atlanta.
"We ought to just taxi around for an hour."

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201144/1026dv_boeing_first_flight_x060e_140x70.jpg
(http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/video.cfm?c_id=7&gal_objectid=10762060&gallery_id=122411)Video (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/video.cfm?c_id=7&gal_objectid=10762060&gallery_id=122411)New Boeing lands in Hong Kong (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/video.cfm?c_id=7&gal_objectid=10762060&gallery_id=122411) (1:51)
http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201140/0926dv_boeing_launch_x070a_140x70.jpg (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/video.cfm?c_id=7&gal_objectid=10762060&gallery_id=121753)

Video (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/video.cfm?c_id=7&gal_objectid=10762060&gallery_id=121753)Boeing delivered to All Nippon Airways (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/video.cfm?c_id=7&gal_objectid=10762060&gallery_id=121753) (2:42)

World's first Dreamliner now flying in Japan (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10754649)
Dreamliner coming to NZ next month (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10760152)
Boeing signals new widebody to battle Airbus (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10733617)