L@ser attacks

[maxho]

Summary of incident: An aircraft on departure ex-Moscow Domodedovo was targetted by a green laser at a point approximately 5nm prior to Vinli, and approximately 14,000ft. The laser tracked into Captains left eye, leading to momentary dazzling and some discomfort. Captain recovered, and continued flight as P1 in pilot-not-handling role due residual blurring in left eye.

Unable to make Moscow ATC understand the nature of the problem, therefore all-stations broadcast made on 121.5 to advise following aircraft of the threat.

Edited by Rumours and News Moderators:

This was originally a post which consisted solely of the text of an ASR; such is unacceptable. As this is a serious incident, part of an increasing trend as regular readers of these forums will know, it has been edited and re-posted by the moderators, following debate and after contact with the operating Captain, who is back flying following a specialist eye examination.

What is perhaps most interesting about this incident is the altitude it occurred at, significantly higher than most of the previous incidents.

[Diedtrying]

There is a company out there selling seriously powerful hand held lasers, granted they do cost quite a bit of money but they do burn. Here is a clip from youtube showing one of the lasers from a few clicks away. Be worried!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0rmpvgJOKF8&feature=related

[Doodlebug]

Here's really hoping that this kind of behaviour does not become de rigueur among the bored kids of Eastern Europe/Russia. Thanks for the warning, for what it's worth! Has anyone ever noticed something that looks like a laser without looking into it, i.e. are they identifiable as lasers before any damage is done? Any experience out there?

[Doodlebug]

Posted simultaneously, Died. There's my answer. Powerful!

[Diedtrying]

It scares the hell out of me as these kids are posting on youtube the power in these things, i.e. bursting balloons, igniting matches, cutting different materials. Whats even worse is this company are carrying on creating more powerful lasers :ugh:, at the moment they have blue lasers, powers of these lasers are from 1000mW to 7000mW. The prices for 457nm lasers are not low but they are battery powered hand held. :=

[Mercenary Pilot]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bRkufG5kR5A&feature=related

A demo of the power of these things.

[Avionero]

Heard about a similar incidents in Sydney on the news. At least they busted one of those kids.

I am just surprised how a bored kid can possibly aim exactly at the windscreen of an approaching aircraft, representing a very small moving target.

[PBL]

This kind of stuff has been going on for years. AFAIR, some years ago a pilot into Vegas was temporarily blinded.

The difference is that these devices have become more powerful as well as cheaper.

What has not changed is that no one in public seems to have the slightest idea what one can do about it. I suspect the military might have an idea, since they have been thinking about laser weaponry and defence for some decades now. However, it is not clear that they or their political masters would want to put effective defence measures in the public domain for use in the occasional civilian incident.

PBL

[slip and turn]

Avionero

A bored kid can point one of these in your direction in the same way that a bored policeman can point his speedgun in your general direction and expect a result.

Even a laser beam diverges (so even if the central beam is still quite narrow, the visible entire beam and "splash" is perhaps metres wide at the sort of range we are discussing).

Because the Moscow atmospherics were helpful to the miscreant in guiding his beam through the crud to the aircraft, I imagine it would be quite easy to get a flash across an aircraft windshield, and maybe even hold it longer than would be comfortable for you if you happened to be looking in his direction.

[Bobbsy]

I recommend a quick read through the comments posted about that Youtube video Mercenary Pilot posted a link to--sobering and frightening.

The company that posted the video (and sells the lasers) clearly doesn't care what they're used for and kids are openly egging each other on to aim them at cars, planes etc. One is even encouraged to smuggle one past Australian customs to circumvent a crackdown following an incident recently with a police helicopter.

When somebody dies because of a laser blinding incident, "Dragonlasers" should be held criminally responsible...but I bet they won't be.

Bob

[DouglasDigby]

I have (forwarded) copies of some emails from the company quoted (aparently they were sent the details about the original incident); they will NOT add "Do not point at aircraft" warnings to YouTube or their website. http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/bah.gif

Thank you for your suggestions, but I do not think its useful.

Lasers get diverged quickly by distance, the laser beam dot become roughly 1.5mm wider after every meters, so in 1000 meters away, a laser beam dot is roughly 1500mm in diameter, it is completely safe to eyes no matter how powerful the laser is, the laser beam dot is too huge.

2 kilometers away a laser beam dot is as wide as 3 meters, and so on.

A laser beam is just dangerous to eyes when it is concentrated to a very small spot.

Fly safe, its not necessary to worry about lasers when you are flying ☺

Best Regards

Sales Department
www.dragonlasers.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I have nothing to say, in 500 meters range, they could also use guns.

Another reason, lasers in disco and clubs, they are also very powerful, the reason it does not hurt human eyes is that the laser beam moves quickly.

Point a laser from about 100 meters away to a flying pilot, it will just flash eyes but it will not cause damage, and I believe that its impossible to aim.

Best Regards

Sales Department
www.dragonlasers.comLegislation needed I think - the company is in ChangChun, China, so no hope of changing things there!

[Just a spotter]

First off, I don't want to take away from the seriousness of the incidents covered here, nor instigate (too much) thread creep.

Summary of incident: An aircraft on departure ex-Moscow Domodedovo was targetted by a green laser at a point approximately 5nm prior to Vinli, and approximately 14,000ft. The laser tracked into Captains left eye, leading to momentary dazzling and some discomfort. Captain recovered, and continued flight as P1 in pilot-not-handling role due residual blurring in left eye.

Has anyone tried to work out the geometry and/or physics involved here? Given the height of the aircraft, the position of the captain in relation to the windows, the fact that the laser would have been pointed from a location (presumably) on the ground diagonally upwards towards the point of contact of the beam with the pilots eye and taking into account the speed of the aircraft across the ground and (presumably) it's rate of climb.

I'm no laser expert, but I assume (and indeed hope) that the kind of device that can pump out enough focused energy to "flash" you at well over 3 miles through the atmosphere and cause "momentary dazzling and some discomfort" with "residual blurring" isn't readily available at your local lasers'r'us.com.

JAS

[cwatters]

This is worth a read..

"The Effects of Laser illumination on Operational and Visual Performance of Pilots During Final Approach"

http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/oamtechreports/2000s/media/0409.pdf

It says that "illumination of flight crewmembers with laser radiation > 0.5uW/cm^2 is unacceptable"

Someone check my sums but....

A 500mW output laser spread over a 1 meter diameter spot would be around 64uW/cm^2. Thats 128 times the acceptable level.

Spread over a 1.5m diameter spot it's still around 28uW/cm^2 or 56 times the acceptable level.

If the spot diameter is 3m (see previous posts) the max acceptable power of the laser works out at just 35mW.

So if those spot diameters are achievable at the required range (see earlier posts) it would appear easy for the recommended max exposure of 0.5uW/Cm^2 to be exceeded.

I've ignored absorbtion by the air.

[Double Zero]

Personally I’m not so convinced ‘ bored rich kids’ are responsible – P.I.L ‘ Pilot Incapacitation Lasers ’ have been around since the 1980’s, - indeed the’ Flasher’ was fitted to some of our ships in the Falklands War, though not officially used and later removed as part of the Geneva Convention.

I must say, if I was in command of a warship under attack I’d use everything available…

I worked with laser designators on a test range which had a “ blinding range of 9 miles ” – that was quite a few years ago now.

The resident expert had taken an accidental laser hit in an eye, and described it as “ unbearable pain, as if his eyeball was exploding ” – leading to permanent blindness on that side.

In my job recording the laser ‘splash’ on target – so a little uncomfortably close – on the first sortie I was given full goggles covered with sensors which were supposed to shriek & black out the lenses if I took a hit; when I asked “ how do they work faster than light then ? ” I was met with a shrug…

On later trials I was issued with what looked like fancy sunglasses for the same purpose, which I fervently hoped were tuned to the same frequency as the laser !

With that proviso in mind, such ‘sunglasses’ might be required kit for even civilian pilots ?

[cortilla]

I was operating from edinburgh that night to stansted. Now whilst i didn't see any lasers either on departure or approach to edinburgh that night, the STN ATIS was reporting laser beams sighted at approx 7 DME from the threshold. 2 airports in the same night at approximately the same time.


One Other thing. Show's my childish nature i know but all i've been able to think since i heard this story was, were it angry sea bass with frickin' laser beams attached to them??

[Lydia Dustbin]

Barke

What kind of laser?? Could it be from a club? Or a little handheld one?

Guys be afraid, be very afraid. There is a company in China selling 'little hand held lasers that will literally cut you in half. Start looking here.

Dragon Lasers (http://www.dragonlasers.com/index.html)

Then look at one of the current more powerful ones here

Bloody Madness! (http://www.dragonlasers.com/catalog/Hulk-Ultra-400mW-p-16194.html)

Then to see what the current youth of today are up to, please go to you tube,(or google will direct you) and type in 'Dragon Lasers' to see how todays youth like to use these 'toys' (potential WMD).

There is no reason for anybody other than a scientist to buy these things, they should be under licence, yet as you will read on the comments on You Tube after watching the vids, they seem to be on the Hoodie of todays christmas list.

Shocking!!

[Lydia Dustbin]

Barke
The only consolation at present is that if these lasers are used from a distance the beam will diverge significantly enough to ensure permenant damage is not done to the eyes, however there have been instances of temparory disorientation. The problem is that they are producing 600W lasers in a housing the size of a medium Maglite. What will they be producing in another two years?

[Pugilistic Animus]

Oh:mad: great IFR approaches with LASER goggles on---:mad:


I hope the attempt this with an A-10 pilot-so he can just zap the little M***:mad:s with a 50 Cal--before they blind a civilian flight crew and cause a terrible catastrophe with my Sweetheart aboard---I'll kill ya!!!


:*:(

Lester!!!!

[aussiepax]

They apparently are high powered jobs, not the little hand held pen ones. Quite a spate of these incidents here in Australia, ongoing. One group of teenagers was found so far ( given a slap on the wrist ) , but I agree the potential for terrorism is there. Some of the incidents here have emanated from suburbs where the population is > 75 % middle eastern.

[Sam-MAN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeMpdiDZ1iI

Probably one of those things.

Quite common in Manchester unfortunately.

Sam

[SU-GCM]

Used to happen Quite a lot in Kuwait OKBK and pilots started to complain about it
they started to take position reports from the Pilots complaining and send Police Choppers to catch the guys

Really very bad and dangerous attitude :(:ugh:

[glad rag]

Well I use a penlight laser harmonised to the optics of my telescope as a pointing aid, never felt the need to point it at anything earthbound TBH, don't know if it a "powerful" one but it runs off a single AAA battery.
They are really very useful in the astronomical field insofar it allows pointing without kneeling in freezing winter mud (and that's my back garden)
I have also seen ads for lasers that can ignite matches and pop balloons at distance.
But lets be clear here, it is not the tool but the hand that wields it that is the problem.

[blueloo]

A Resident boffin (with appropriate boffin qualifications) has crunched some numbers, and essentially, the diameter of the wavelength of the whatever of whatever (clearly as you can see I am an expert in the field), by the time it reaches you even a couple of hundred feet up makes it in all essence just an annoyance rather than a danger. Certainly the likelihood of long term damage to your eyes is very remote.

Of course how much it distracts you at the time is another issue.

And lastly, if they manage to mount a laser on the back of a truck and connect it to the local nuclear power supply may mean that the above is irrelevant too.

[Eboy]

I know in at least one instance in the US the "green" laser was a type used for astronomy -- pointing out objects in the sky to a group, for example. Small, but more powerful than the standard cheap red pen-type laser pointer.

[Pugilistic Animus]

I have no objection to responsible users ---who do scientific or other experimentation with LASER devices--but those who use those devices to endanger air safety:(---and -- this idiocy expunges in this thread--only stifles--those who use the devices for legitimate/intended/creative purposes:ok:


PA:)

[Sunfish]

A clown was recently sentenced to two years jail in South Australia for using a green laser, and I understand they are now prohibited imports here.

[bubbers44]

Good, now other clowns with equal inteligence can decide if they want to spend two years in jail for being very stupid. All countries should subscribe to that punishment.

[kotakota]

" Guns don't kill people , people kill people"

[gimpgimp]

Info below may calm things down a bit..... from company memo
(thanks to a certain Pete W)


Recent media reporting of laser light “attacks” on aircraft has been the subject of tabloid reporting and has been frequent enough to be of some concern to xx Pilots.
Optical masers as they were first called, were developed in the late 1950s and early 1960s.
The first working *laser used a ruby crystal as the resonator cavity that was optically pumped by a very high output xenon flash tube.
Its inventor, the late Dr Theodore Maiman recounted: "One reporter came up to me and asked me about using the laser in developing weapons. I told him I didn't think it very likely.
He asked me if I would deny that the laser could be used that way, and I said no”.
The very next day, all across the USA, headlines shouted: “LA Man Discovers Science- Fiction Death Ray! ” Hence, while laser technology has progressed significantly in the last 50
years, it would seem tabloid journalism standards sadly have not. Lasers are now found in devices as diverse as the IRS systems on the B744 to supermarket checkout scanners.
Tabloid press aside, should you still be concerned about your vision if the aircraft you are operating is illuminated by laser light? The short answer is no.
Contrary to popular belief, all but the most powerful continuous wave lasers give out little more light than a good “Maglite” torch. The laser, however, emits all of its light in a very narrow wavelength, over a pencil thin area and also has a property known as coherence. It is this latter property that allows lasers to be focused with incredible precision hence high power
units (ie. power rating of at least several watts) be used for cutting and etching in industry.
Unlike megawatt, precision gas or ruby laser systems (read: more text-book like properties, not portable and require governmental budgets) used, for example, at professional observatories for lunar ranging experiments, the milliwatt lasers used to capture headlines and “tag” aircraft are, almost without exception, inexpensive diode based green laser “pointers”. Their wavelength (525nm) is very close to that of the peak spectral sensitivity of the human eye at 555nm.
Virtually every green laser pointer uses Diode Pumped Solid State Frequency Doubled (DPSSFD) laser technology. These devices use a “pump” laser diode which has its frequency doubled by a Potassium Titanyl Phosphate, (KTP) crystal inside the laser cavity. The visibility
of these green pointers appears to the eye to be about six or seven times brighter than the older 670nm red diode based laser pointers, rated at the same power output. Diode lasers also lose their coherence at small distances, typically less than a metre.
Beam divergence, or the spot diameter at a distance, of these diode based lasers is a little underwhelming. Without a corrective lens these devices are rather like dim coloured flashlights and have very poor “beam” qualities. A small lens is required to collimate the diode’s output into a usable beam.
Due to their fairly cheap manufacture and lack of precision these lenses typically allow the
beam to diverge about 2mm per metre from the source diode. Hence, at around 500 feet a 1mm beam has diverged to approximately 300mm in diameter.
Let’s assume a “worst case scenario”. Our laser “tagger” has acquired a green hand held laser which is rated at the highest power current technology allows (around 400mw) selling for approximately $A1700.00 (most, however, are less than -one tenth that power level and sell for under about $100).
From before, the spot size at 500 feet is approximately 300mm. The pupil of a dark adapted
human eye is typically 6-7mm in diameter. Hence, the total possible flux that can enter a
Pilot’s eye is around one sixth of a milliwatt. This is about 2.5 times less than continuous
direct exposure to a Class One laser held directly to an eye, while not recommended practice,
is considered to be safe under all conditions. (I have ignored atmospheric scattering and
absorption plus reflection and attenuation losses from flight deck windows, which would
significantly reduce any incoming light).
Of course, a sudden flash of bright green light from the ground could be distracting, and must
not be condoned, but fortunately is no more a “death ray” or “weapon of mass murder” than the Maglite found in many Pilot’s navbags.
A secondary effect of bright light, laser or otherwise, is the temporary bleaching of the photo pigment in the retina. An everyday example of this is after having your picture taken at night,
when you may see the “afterimage” of the photographer’s flashgun etched into your retina for a time.
This physiological reaction is perfectly normal and will pass after a few minutes.
If you are flashed by a laser from the ground I would, however, recommend the following.
1. Do not look directly into the beam.
2. While the possibly of distraction exists, both the power and coherence of green laser
pointers is trivial and it is virtually impossible for your eyes to be injured from an event above an altitude of approximately 250 feet.
3. Continue with normal and safe operation of the aircraft, for example, in a manner similar
to driving at night with an oncoming motor vehicle that does not dip their headlights.
*Laser is an acronym for Light Amplification through Stimulated Emission of Radiation

[MTOW]

Two years? For aiming at an aircraft below... say 5000'? 15-20 years, for the reasons Andu gives in his post, should be more like it.

Manchester, with its "spotter's beer garden" and the road right alongside the taxiway, comes to mind as a potential problem airport if some group wanted to cause mayhem. These things, freely available to 14 year olds, look like being the near future weapon of choice for people with a political message to make or the mind/maturity of a 14 year old.

gimpgimp, I'm afraid my cynicism is such that I place company assurances like the one above up there alongside long time platitudes like "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you", "Of course I'll still respect you in the morning" and "It's only a cold sore".

[Airbubba]

the milliwatt lasers used to capture headlines and “tag” aircraft are, almost without exception, inexpensive diode based green laser “pointers”. Their wavelength (525nm) is very close to that of the peak spectral sensitivity of the human eye at 555nm.

Actually, the familiar green DPSS lasers emit at a wavelength of 532 nm. Most of the other numbers seem reasonable to me. Still, there is considerable discussion about what is a 'safe' level of laser light exposure. Also, even temporary flash blindness can be bad news in an aircraft near the ground.

Here's an account of a flash blindness incident involving an amateur astronomer at a star party:

http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.astro.amateur/2005-01/0019.html

[dangerdanger]

The laser behind the SS ATIS the other was a rave/nightclub of some sort. In my experience it's usually being caused a lightshow rather than malicious intent. That's not to say people aren't doing it intentionally, but I think a good step would be to crack down on the unintentional too.

[am765]

On my first night flight a few years ago I saw an incredibly bright green light from the city, at least 5 miles away. I asked my instructor what the green light was and he looked out to see what I was talking about but it had already gone.

A few weeks later a helicopter reported being blinded by a green laser in the same area. Police were investigating but never caught anyone.

I don't know if this was a cheap pen light or one that will light up a match but I can say it really does blind you. Distracting to say the least. Kills night vision. Lucky enough I was in cruise but on short finals - force a go around at least - at worst....

[belleh]

are laser pens (like the sort we used to use in the classroom) really powerful enough to reach an aircraft a couple of thousand feet up?

Yes, except they are not the 'classroom' type. There are different classes and power ratings for lasers, to very different effect. You might find this enlightening:

http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation.htm

Now if you look at the examples, note near the bottom what a 5mW laser at 350ft can do to your view. Sure, 5mW is a low powered classroom style pointer, and 350ft isn't the kind of distance these attacks (and that's what they are) are operating at.

However, I direct you to places like http://www.wickedlasers.com where you have lasers powerful enough to light matches, pop balloons, etc. Notice you can buy, and very legally in most countries (Australia have now declared all class 3 and 4 lasers illegal, classed as a weapon; class 1 and 2 remain legal and most classroom pointers are class 2) the products on this website. Now notice just how powerful a laser you can buy from placed like wikidlasers. You can buy a 635nm red 500mW (!) laser for a small amount of thousands.

Granted, you'd need some kind of guidance/mounted system to keep the laser trained on a cockpit (impossible to achieve anything more than flashes over the window at any distance with just the hand), but I submit that for a relatively small sum of cash, such a system could be fairly easily implemented.

So, in answer to your question, yes, this can be a huge issue, and could be even worse with a little research and the right know how. And of course, such equipment is so small and trivial to pack away, that by the time the police are even aware there's a problem, the attackers are long gone.

[cwatters]

This is worth a read..

"The Effects of Laser illumination on Operational and Visual Performance of Pilots During Final Approach"

http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/m...media/0409.pdf

It says that "illumination of flight crewmembers with laser radiation > 0.5uW/cm^2 is unacceptable"

If I did the sums right...

A 500mW output laser spread over a 1 meter diameter spot would be around 64uW/cm^2. Thats 128 times the acceptable level.

[Double Zero]

I appreciate the fact that people with a lot more knowledge than me re. Lasers are posting here, but some first hand experience I had years ago seems relevant...

I'm not at all convinced about these pen sized jobs being much of a danger, ( though I don't fancy trying the receiving end ) - but a nasty little fact not much mentioned so far is that deliberate blinding lasers have been around for a long time.

I worked at a test range, recording LGB hits, the target being 'lit' by a designator as used by our & other forces ( and old kit even then ).

I was warned that the thing had a blinding range ( accidental, not it's purpose ) of 9 miles, and I don't think even our Special Forces can carry around a nuclear generator...

Use of the thing was taken very seriously, with it aimed out to sea towards targets, in case the wind blew the target down & the civilians inland got hit.

When my laser detector beeper & display on my monitor showed the operator was doing a quick test firing with men on the target, I had to radio a quick warning & he became less than flavour of the month.

That was a designator, not an actual Pilot Incapacitation Laser, which have also been around for years.

I would never suggest that all these yobs are running around with ex-military kit, but it may be that a few ( terrorists basically + the odd nut, who knows ) are, and meanwhile there might be an unpleasant 'improvement' in civilian kit.

As mentioned before, I initially had bulky protective goggles impractical for a pilot, but was later issued with what looked like very pale green sunglasses.

I expect there's a nasty snag covering all the frequencies, but if they are practical I'd go for the sunglasses !

One other point - some military vehicles, I believe, have detectors to tell if they are being 'lased' - again frequencies may be a snag, and whether it can do anything about it other than warn one is another question.

- I agree more kit one could well do without, and god knows what the cost is, but maybe an application for Army / Police dedicated spotters in problem areas ?

This trend sounds very bad news, some time in the future...

[the_flying_cop]

i actually got someone sent down for a good stretch as a result of lasering.

we were just tootling about around stockport when the inside of the aircraft was completely illuminated. a quick search with the IR camera and i tracked the individual down. he was following us round as we orbited him.

when he was arrested (completely oblivious as to how and why) it turned out that his device was a motorcycle headlamp crudely wired up to a large vehicle battery.

was rather pleased when i learnt that several other aircraft had complained of this nuisance (situated just of final approach of 23R at EGCC) and that the individual involved got his comeuppance.

he was charged under the ANO (s.93 i think) for endagering an aircraft. was a nice result, for a change.

TFC

[Flintstone]

Individual = man.

Copspeak. Why use one syllable when five will do? :E

[Self Loading Freight]

You can now buy 200mw red lasers online directly from China for £15, from places like dealextreme.com. The problem won't go away: quite the opposite. And as there are now red, green and blue lasers easily available, any attempt in eye protection will end up as it did for an engineer I knew who worked on laser projector TVs. Health and safety told him he had to wear protective glasses with filters tuned to each laser - he pointed out that once you took red, green and blue out of light there wasn't much left to work with.

I can't see any avoiding a ban on devices >5mw, which will be a huge pain for everyone with legitimate uses for the things. The ban won't work, of course (any guesses for how many small packages dealextreme and friends dispatch a day?), and it won't make offenders any easier to find - and there are plenty of laws, as we've seen, that can deal with them already. But there'll be a media panic and a new law rushed through, and that'll be that.

[Air Mule]

As someone who has been involved with professional laser shows for over 23 years, I really annoys me what some of these "t**ts with laser pointers get up to. I have performed many outdoor laser shows, with large frame argon lasers of up to 12 watts and 7KW Xenon searchlights. However these were carefully staged events.

As a requirement we had to notify the CAA (AUS dept) a minimum to 28 days prior to the show to allow for suitable warning notices to be issued. Failure to do so was in contravention of articles 63 & 110 of the Air Navigation order 2000 and carries an unlimited fine.

These people are also contravening local government H & S laws. It is Illegal to perform a "public show" without the approval of the local Environmental Health officer. Technically, speaking these are "public shows", as they are visible to all. There are plenty of laws to stop these kids, usually its trying to catch them that is the problem.

PS I wouldnt worry too much about blue lasers, thet are even less visible to the eye than red ones are (about 1/4 for the same power) and are still quite expensive to purchase.

[ray cosmic]

As long as you have people stupid enough to throw bricks from bridges onto a highway (like in Germany), I suppose this issue won't go away without the most terrible threats from law enforcement. What a shame..

[low n' slow]

I was at the pointy end of one of these incidents in Stockholm.
There were some clouds around so I could see a green dot racing around in the sky and I was able to follow it and see where it came from. All of a sudden I saw it on our nacelles and then inside the cockpit. I felt an ever so slight sting in my eye but not much more and it dissipadet very quickly.

After landing about 10 minutes later, I had this warm feeling above my eye on my forehead and it felt as if I had gravel or sand in my eye. Very discomforting. I mentioned it to my captain and he had similar complaints.
We pressed on for the final leg, and contacted the hospital upon landing. Basically nothing to do but to monitor the symptoms. Fortunately they wore off within 1 or 2 days and I've had my eye examined since without any remarks.

Later that week we got an email from our chief of flightoerations saying we should aid the police in trying to find the location of the laser pointer i.e. look out. I'd just like to comment on this, if you ever suspect you're being lit up by a laser, duck down below the glareshield and stay down for as long as you think you might need to (how's that for specific advice!!! :}). It's a scary experience and should be avoided by any means possible. Not trying to find the source if you know you're being lit up is one good way... And having seen the laser dot on our aircraft skin, I can tell you it's not 3 meters in diameter... more likely 3 cm... Anyhow, don't let your interest get the better out of you, DUCK DOWN!

/LnS

[wiggy]

Chuffin eck, shades of the Cold war....shades down and eyepatches on :hmm:

[Double Zero]

The point I have been trying to get across ( no doubt badly ) in my previous posts is that deliberate, military design & use of lasers specifically meant to 'dazzle' or 'blind' enemy pilots has been around a long while- apparently there are such definitions, though what difference it makes seems a tad superfluous !

So, 2 things occur to me;

1,The military well have a countermeasure of sorts, if only on high value assets; our 'good guys' have promised not to use such nasty weapons, but I'd be surprised if they haven't considering coming up against them.

2, It seems the commercially available kit, while nowhere near as bad yet, is narrowing the gap - and for those of you flying in nasty areas, I'd suppose coming up against even the military kit is a possibility...

Would some highly public hard sentences for such idiots be a counter, or trigger some perverse trendy new entertainment and just worry SLF ?!

Or, I hope some dept. somewhere is 'looking into it' - ( well, not if you'll pardon the pun ) and coming up with something.

[K.Whyjelly]

the powers that be are obviously taking an interest in this matter..............part of my forest worth of paper NOTAMS included the following;

Report to ATC any exposure to laser beam/light giving location of the source.
For uncontrolled airports inform fire rescue station on the proper freq.

[jhurditch]

The fines for attacking an aircraft with a laser beam in Australia are now up around $300 000 AUD or imprisonment.

[FlyboyUK]

There's a NOTAM out at Birmingham at the moment regarding a laser being pointed at aircraft in the area and to report any sightings to ATC immediately.

[Dai_Farr]

I'm ex-Nimrod aircrew. In the 1980's I recall rose-tinted specs being issued - don't laugh, it's true!

The idea was, whilst using the best sensor yet invented (the Mark 1 eyeball) in the vicinity of Soviet warships, you were supposed to wear these awful specs in case the vessel was using laser target designators, or incapacitation lasers as described earlier by Double Zero. Were you "hit," by laser light, the lens(es) of the spectacles flashed green and the idea was that you looked away immediately.

Whatever was on or in the lenses wouldn't protect you. But, so long as you resisted curiosity for another look, it gave you a chance.

This material has been around for some time. Manufacturers could, no doubt, retro fit screens with this or similar stuff incorporated. However, since I assume the red tint of our above-mentioned spectacles was critical to their operation, I should add, from experience that, contrary to popular belief, they were bloody awful to view the world through for any length of time! So if the Tefal-heads could design windscreens with this clever stuff, but in "normal" glass colour...

...but maybe I'm viewing the world through rose-tinted spectacles.

[FLEX/MCT]

There was someone on Manchester Approach frequency last night who reported being painter by a laser. Sadly, it sounds like this specific form of stupidity is getting more common. Bring back the stocks!

[mercurydancer]

As a poster said before, laser star-finders are very useful pieces of kit especially if the object to be identified is obscured by cloud. Ive been watching Mars in the southern sky for a few weeks but it does trouble me that my line of sight is perpendicular to a flight path. I use a red laser but it is quite astonishing how far the beam remains coherent in clear air. I am sure that astronomy lasers cannot be a more than a momentary distraction for aircrew even if it illuminates directly into the cockpit. I dont know much about "green" lasers but I would imagine that the thermal energy dissipates at short distances from the exit port of the laser. Spectacle lenses could refocus the beam however.

I would be horrified if I inadvertently endangered aircrew but would be equally horrified if I had Mr Plod and his friends descend upon me whilst I was looking at a planet.

More info is needed... which lasers are safe and which ones arent? I will do a bit of searching myself but if someone knows more then i would be grateful.

[paarmo]

Bearing in mind the tensions at the moment between the UK Gov and Russia over the polonium poisoning case in London is it too much a stretch of the imagination..............?
After all 14,000 feet and then presumeably down into the cockpit does not sound like a commercially available piece of kit used from the ground to me.

[non iron]

l remember passing Manchester heading north in `93 on " guy fawkes " night and having a problem with lasers criss-crossing the sky ( l mean strong enough to light clouds which was the intention plainly). l made a report to atc from above 14,000ft, asking that the police investigate. My co-pilot, who was medicaly trained, kept his/her head down `till it stopped.
Our very own lawyer has got this right, bang `em up if caught "playing" with aircraft.

[The Civil Civillian]

As in when in the area of a nuclear explosion, to close one eye?

Hey, you may go blind in that eye but at least you'll land OK and more imprtantly, the SLF will be OK! [says a member of the SLF]