Merged: Van seaplane arse over kite in Darwhine..

[tinpis]

Owner/pilot rescued sitting on upturned floats
Waddya reckon?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/08/2210984.htm?site=alicesprings

[Brian Abraham]

Wheels?...

[Zhaadum]

So if you owe the CP a carton of beer every time you leave the water rudders down for t/off or landing, what do you owe when you leave the wheels down and f*#k the whole aircraft? A brewery? :eek:
Glad the pilot is ok.:ok:

[tinpis]

Hmmmm.... :hmm:

http://www.ntnews.com.au/images/uploadedfiles/editorial/pictures/2008/04/08/plane_flip.jpg

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2008/04/09/3819_ntnews.html

[tio540]

Just goes to show, Caravans are for camping.

[Diatryma]

Repairable?

Di :confused:

[Brian Abraham]

Repairable
Sure, just a quick rinse......oh, you've already done that.

[qtn]

Bugger.:sad::sad::sad:

[gaunty]

'lil Birdie tells me it was a wheels down water landing but I haven't seen any news on it anywhere??

[Dave Incognito]

It's been reported in GA & Q's

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321646

[Old 'Un]

I reckon he'd have been okay if he hadn't hit that tree.

All right, I'll go quietly...

Le vieux

[desmotronic]

Probably very little structural damage, see a similar event here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pucmWr55cgw

Very nearly did the same once when a forward float compartment sprung a leak, full back stick only just kept the floats from digging in.

[Stationair8]

Bloody crocodiles strike again!

Tinnpis no doubt you will be heading up the recovery team?

[VH-XXX]

Desmo if you think the aircraft in the youtube video has little damage, you need to check the thread elsewhere on recreational drug use! :ugh:

[desmotronic]

I said little structural damage with respect to its potential to be repaired. As for being inverted and immersed in salt water is another matter. Suggest you stop beating your head against a brickwall and have a glass of red instead.

[international hog driver]

I had the experience of watching my chief pilot do exactly this an a Caravan on his first unsupervised line flight, he simply forgot to put the gear up after departure and did not pay attention to the 4 red lights……. So much for checks hey.

Anyway as he flared, the mains touched and he bounced once but after that sudden loss of speed, all four dug in and instant stop. The van then went nose under, prop bends like a banana and it stand on its nose for the infinite seconds

The only reason it did not go right over was the 20 knots of wind that blew it back down.

End result, front spreader bar was flattened. Engine twisted on its mounts until it cracked at the power turbine, firewall bent….. all the good things.

No it did not fly again.

Given that this one is upside down in the salt for a few days, I would hazard to guess that it is an insurance write off.

[Muffinman]

Excellent - another bit of structure for the barras and mangrove jacks to hang around in. Now where's me baitcaster - I've got a day off......

[tinpis]

Stationair

As I said here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4034715&postcount=13):ok:

[the wizard of auz]

I must have been pretty lucky. The one I was flying about had a nice lady telling me my gear was up for a water landing and a grumpy sounding guy telling me my gear was down for a land landing, as soon as I went through 100FT. Hoooo, that flash gear is flash aye?.:}

[Capt Wally]

................"above" sea level mate we operate above!:bored::E

I had no idea catarmarans had wheels underneath them!:E



CW

[runway16]

Who was the operator, rego ?

[vee tail]

Wiz that flash voice I am pretty sure is stall warning activated. Thats why you always heard it when doing wing overs:=:=:=

It has occured before that gear down landings and A/C still in reasonable form.
The force was with him ....

Talkin of C.P's and floats I once had one land in a small bay and wipe out the rear mast of yacht in DHC-2. Marvelous thing that wing bent back on 45deg angle still atached. Ops rings up and asks how badly damaged can a beaver wing be before you no fly him any more:D:D:D:D:D:D

Funny buggers

[courier]

Anyone can have a bad day in the office however to mess up so badly shows a complete lack of discipline in the cockpit. We have checks to do as pilots - we're taught this in our first days on the job. To miss such a fundamental action - as simple as knowing where your wheels are, or are not - is completely bewildering. A cheap seaplane endorsement in most cases is conducted in a straight floatplane; and I'm not sure that all training organisations provide vital information to the student who may at some point fly an amphibian. The moment you start flying a seaplane, your checklists must include "this is a water landing/take-off" or "this is a land landing/take-off"; whether you are flying an amphibian or a straight floatplane. This will guarantee a long and safe water flying life; and will dramatically reduce the cost of seaplane insurance for everyone else!

[Capt Claret]

I'd argue the opposite courier.

IMO flying is conducted a very dynamic environment where interruptions almost the name of the game. For me, and some others, it's easier to understand how a mistake might come to be, than to ridicule the person for making what appears to be a simple and basic error.

I believe it's safe to assume that very, very, few pilots have intentionally landed with the gear up, or in the case of our floating bretheren, down. It follows that they throught, for what ever reason that it was down for landies, nd up for floaties, yet it wasn't where they thought. It's a bit simplistic to explain the plethora of such occurrences as just "s/he's stupid", particularly without examining the circumstances.

Question

Has any one investigated the subject Caravan to determine the position of the gear handle, and if the gear indicating system was working properly?

[trolleydriver]

It can all happen to easy....... I have landed an amphib without MENTALLY checking the gear position :eek: It was in a very high work load situation trying to relay a message for a badly injured boatie... whilst talking to passengers, a boat on marine band, getting an ATC clearance and talking to company on VHF all in a 6 minute flight..... It was only after I had landed, taxied in and shut down that I realised I hadn't check the gear position :( Lucky for me, my automatic actions put everything where they should be. But it could so easily have been a different story. :{

It was a welcome reminder of just how easy it is to get distracted at critical times. I just hope that uneasy feeling I got when I realised what I had done stays in the back of my mind for every landing.

TrolleyDriver

[tinpis]

I know nothing of floaty planes so a couple of questions please
1. How do you brake them on land?
2.How do you steer them on land?
3.Does the wheel bits sit in the water all the time i,e when retracted?
4. If they got brakes etc how often do they need cleaning service etc?
5.Is the above part of the pilots duty ? :uhoh:

[desmotronic]

Tin,
1. With the rear wheel brakes.
2. Differential rear wheel brakes.
3. Rear wheels yes, front wheels no.
4. All the time. Also wheel bearings and the gear extension links.
5. Has been known to be.

They also crz a lot slower, are less longitudinally stable and stall at lower airspeed than same a/c without floats. Check 4 blue lights on water, 4 green lights on land. Always.

[RadioSaigon]

Very, very well spoken Captain Claret. :ok:

...and Tinpis; further to 2) -the nose-wheels are usually castering on amphib floats.

[tinpis]

Er....what is the next step yer take if you have less then 4 lights? :ooh:

[RadioSaigon]

After all the necessary checks have been done without success? Personally I'd be heading for a bit of grass.

[Mach.29]

a mirror on the underside of the wing also helps the pilot to verify the position of the gear, even if the pretty lights don't work!

[beeva]

The safest place for the wheels on an amphibian is "up", you can walk away with a wheels up on land with not much more than a damaged ego, but you won't walk away from a wheels down on the water..:(

[werbil]

tinpis,

rules for uncertain gear position.
rule 1: if any doubt land on land.
rule 2: if not sure apply rule 1.

IMHO mirrors should be mandatory on amphibs as you can positively confirm the gear is up for water (it doesn't confirm that the gear is locked down for landing on land though).

courier,

IMHO a bit of an arrogant, complacent attitude. The only way to guarantee that this wont occur is not to fly amphibs. I am nervous anytime the wheels are down, and I work hard on that attitude. Whilst I believe I know my gear selection I select, check and challenge. As well as doing PUFR checks, every time I move the power lever / throttle on final I mentally confirm that I have considered the relationship of my gear selection with the surface I intend to land on for this particular approach.

Gear selection in an amphibian is a human factors nightmare - basically everything else is the same irrespective of the surface except for the gear position. Those that have extensive land based retractable time have to get out of the mind set of 'wheels down for landing' and 'green is safe'. I have heard of experienced training pilots being tripped up by a student extending gear on short final. A good trick when checking the gear an an amphib is to tap the gear selector and rather than grabbing it to make it impossible to inadvertently extend the gear at this stage. As proven here again, gear down in an amphib is the least safe configuration. The newer amphibian installations now have amber lights for wheels down to reflect this.

I do agree that the landing check is essential, as is checklist discipline. However, I do not know of an amphibian pilot that has not had their gear in an undesirable configuration whether by selection or mechanical fault at some stage in their career. The float industry in Australia is quite small, yet I know of a number of pilots who have landed with the incorrect gear selection, including some that have a huge amount of amphib experience, and some that have done it twice. :=

capt claret, beeva, trolleydriver - :ok::ok::ok:

Re selection / indication. Even if there was a fault that resulted in the gear failing to retract, the checks are to designed to detect incorrect gear position not incorrect gear selection. These checks include a physical look at the window at the position of the nose wheel - if in doubt refer to rule 1.

[tinpis]

Well I was gunna go ride in one sometime now all I can say is ......http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/eek2.gif

[desmotronic]

grass landing a non event really tin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61gRPW4vimY

[tinpis]

HO HO !

Schnorklinn und Spllutter koffen landen mit der vheels arz bakkvords (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pucmWr55cgw&feature=related)