200 hours Fresh ATPL...any jobs out there?

[HenC]

My sincere greetings to all my senior aviators out there.....I'm currently doing my ATPL in Malaysia.

As per the question above, any? Besides the instructorship and cadet route.

Anything from China, HK, India or even the Maldives? Or anywhere else..doesnt matter.

Appreciate all kind and valuable inputs.

[thornycactus]

My sincere greetings to all my senior aviators out there.....I'm currently doing my ATPL in Malaysia.
As per the question above, any? Besides the instructorship and cadet route.Anything from China, HK, India or even the Maldives? Or anywhere else..doesnt matter.Appreciate all kind and valuable inputs.
I read through your past postings and I can see you are a real genuine poster. You are polite and you showed sincerity in asking questions! :ok:

Here are the answers to you.

1. China is new into aviation (just staring up only) and they are training their own people. They may need foreigners but you have to go through your way out and do your CAAC licencing conversion before the Chinese airlines will consider you. The good news is you need not to be type-rated in heavy jet (as for now (in year 2008 situation)) but chance is higher if you are type-rated.

2. For India aviation industry. They do not need any foriegn people (especially without type rated). I met one Singaporean India where he took his licence in Australia. Thereafter, he got type-rated. Not only that, he went through the troublsome **** things with DGCA. Finally, he got into Air India with a help of an Indian National Captain (who is a distance relative of his).

3. Good new is HKCAD accept direct conversion from MDCA licence! You need to sit for HKCAD airlaw and that's it! Need not to be type-rated (as for now (in year 2008 situation)). Still, you need to be employed before you can get your licence converted.to a HKCAD one. HK government is protecting their citizen and you must understand priority will be reserved for the HongKees.

Still, if you really wish to be consider into HK airline, you need to produce at least a HKPR status. With a HKPR status, your chance of getting into HK airline is high. Next question is, how are you going to get HKPR?

Years ago, I met one Malaysian Chinese who did his Bachelor's degree in NUS and later did his Chinese Master's degree with NTU (National Taiwan University. Later, he got married with a Taiwanese girl, now he is with EVA.

SIA is the best choice. SIA suck in lots of foreign people. SIA is the only airline in the whole (that I know) world that trains foreign cadets (Malaysians, Indians, HongKees and etc.)(starting from ab-intio phase). Believe me or not, SIA do not take in their own local bred citizens (even those well qualified ones). :=

[Coastrider26]

Question #1

how do you get an ATPL with 200 hrs... surely you must be talking about something like frozen ATPL?!? No need to show if you have a CPL saying it's an ATPL only pisses of people.

With regard to Hong Kong no pilots here are hired with 200 hrs with the exception will be CX/KA ab initio cadets.

[CodyBlade]

Yeah how do you get an ATPL with 200hrs? absurd.Is it a Kopi shop licence?

[HenC]

First and foremost, thanks thornycactus for your kind compliments. :) And secondly, ur lengthy and efforted reply was a delight to see. :ok:

1. In China, I understand the definite need for captains but for frozen 200 hours, may I know how possible is that? Any specific opportunities that you may know of?

2. And India.....doesn't sound too optimistic for unexperienced foreigners huh ;)

3, HK looks more PR friendly. And getting the PR is already another issue.

I have been thru the SIA interview final round and was not accepted. There's no more repeat allowed. :}

I'm a Singaporean so perhaps I may try Jetstar and Tiger. But then again, I'm all ears for any other foreign opportunity. Even in Msia where I'm doing my frozen ATPL, airlines protect their own nationals. So probably China looks the likeliest in terms of airlines, u think?

Appreciate ur most kind inputs once again.

Oh and by the way, if my wording of the topic title has offended anyone, my deep apologies :yuk:. Didnt consider that too much haha. I should have included "frozen".

[Coastrider26]

Dude,

If you would sent a resume like that to a HKG based carrier they'd fall off their chair laughing. It's not in my personal interest you use the right words or terms so you might actually look like a professional pilot since there is a small difference between the two licenses.....

But hey how would I know?? Surely a 200 hrs pro ATPL knows better :D:D:D

[visselhovede]

Hi HenC,

There are many singaporean like you(i am one of them who intend to sponsor own training somewhere), and i should say you are the first few i see from this forum to have completed FATPL and 200 hours in malaysia(since it is nearer and next easier way in term of price to obtain FATPL for Singaporean), probably your success in landing at any rhs(i believe you will:D) is going to become a role model for many singaporean aspiring pilot wannabe. pls do update us about your progress.

i am still a junior compare to you, but i suggest you to write in to any airline operator that you can think of in this region, even flying school, nothing to lose for trying and probably some of them will change thier recruitment policy because of the market need. They may sponsor your TR but with bonding. i know jetstar had verbally offered a conditional contract to one of the self sponsor cadet in sfc. perhaps people who had 'experience' on this can share more.

all the best
vissel

[thornycactus]

Good! I like humble reply! :ok:

I have been thru the SIA interview final round and was not accepted. There's no more repeat allowed.
Yes, this is true. No chance will be given again. Now, you get what I mean in my first post (post #2) mentioned to you earlier?
I'm a Singaporean so perhaps I may try Jetstar and Tiger. But then again, I'm all ears for any other foreign opportunity. Even in Msia where I'm doing my frozen ATPL, airlines protect their own nationals.
Other than SIA, airlines are protecting their own citizens. The air operators in Malaysia are protecting their own citizens, priority will be given to Malaysian Malays. Sadly, Malaysian Chinese (even though they are local bred in Malaysia) are still consider as second class citizens. :oh:
So probably China looks the likeliest in terms of airlines, u think?
Answering to this particular question. Before applying into any Chinese airline, read post #2, line 2.
Oh and by the way, if my wording of the topic title has offended anyone, my deep apologies . Didnt consider that too much haha. I should have included "frozen".
Most people do not understand and may not come across the term 'frozen ATPL'. The term 'frozen ATPL' is adopted long time ago. Let me cut the story short, the system is associated with UKCAA system (the syllabus and exminations are based on United Kingdom CAA CAP509). Majority of people (including the HongKees) are ignorant and unfamilar with Malaysia's/Singapore's aviation terms. Perhaps, only those experienced aviators will understand what you wrote. ;)

Donkeys years ago, the Hong Kong Police were sent to Malaysia for flight training. These HongKees got their MDCA frozen ATPL! Only those senior HongKees who were trained in Malaysia will know what it is.

[HenC]

Hey vissel,

come on, we're in this together......don't ever call yourself a junior. It embarasses me ;). And I have not attained 200 hours yet. I would say at least 6 more months to go. But I wouldn't want to sit on my laurels and wait for a RHS falling from the heavens too. :)

I would write to as many airlines as I can.....and regarding that Jetstar news that u heard....a verbal offer....care to share more? There's already a lady pilot in there, she went in fresh from flying school. She's my friend's friend. Private cadet.

[HenC]

So thornycactus, regarding the Chinese airlines....I have to convert my license to CAAC before they would even consider me. That means more money again....sigh.....:}

Anyway, thanks for sharing here and also, some insight into the term "frozen". Didn't know HKees sent their police to Msia for flight training! Interesting.

Btw, which airline or company do u ply ur trade in now? I'll be upfront too if I may...any specific jobs that you can recommend? :)

Thanks....

[Ridox222]

Self sponsored cadet here too. Singaporean, currently in RMIT Flight Training, Melbourne. Hopefully by the time I complete, more airlines would take in Direct Entries.

[PicMas]

Hey Coastrider, "Dude..."

Whats with the attitude? The guy is asking a valid question, in a very polite way. No need for the slagging. If you have nothing to contribute just steer clear.
And NO!! you didn't just inform or help or contribute. And NO!! the airline rep. would NOT fall off his chair laughing when receiving a well articulated application from a proactive COLLEAGUE just starting his career.

Might I take a guess at your nationality....:mad:

[chili peppered]

Hey HenC, hows the job hunt going mate?
im in a similar situation as yourself. just completed writting all my ATPL exams (intense) and now looking for that first flying job. Im in australia and there are apparently plenty of jobs going in charter and loads of instructor jobs on offer...if you're willing to get your instructor rating. also, there are a handful of schools that will complete your instructor rating if you agree to a minimum time instructing at the school (sorry, no idea what kind of time frame they are asking). Might be some options here in australia for you if you can't get into the airlines straight away. would need around 250 or so hours TT (minimum) and at least a NVFR.
check out -afap.org.au-

[HenC]

Thanks PicMas for your sense of righteousness ha. There aren't sane pilots all the time, there are nuts behind the control column too :)

[HenC]

So chilli peppered...thanks for the info there. Sounds interesting.....

Any idea what these charter jobs are like? Pay, flying locations etc

I have always got this impression that Oz is a place for "whites" where aviation is concerned.....it will be difficult for someone like me, who gets his ATPL frozen in Msia and then fly there?

Would u care to PM me your email? and then we msn.

Thanks once again :ok:

[thornycactus]

Any idea what these charter jobs are like? Pay, flying locations etc
I have always got this impression that Oz is a place for "whites" where aviation is concerned.....it will be difficult for someone like me, who gets his ATPL frozen in Msia and then fly there?
You have to understand the political reason why Australia is siding "white". You see, the most notorious troublemaker are the Vietnamese in Australia. So, the Australian Government are aware and headache about these sickening "chinese" look-alike people.

You see, Vietnamese, Mainlander Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Malaysian Chinese, Singaporean Chinese, Thai Chinese, Indonesian-Chinese, Bruneiese, Hong-Kee, ABC, all look alike! The Australian Government can't even differentiate who are people. Because of this hidden policatical reason, Australia out a "close-door" barrier against the "non-white".


Many years ago (because the tsunami hit Indonesia), I met REX (the largest independent regional airline in Australia) Chairman, Mr. Lim Kim Hai. Mr. Lim offers his help in relief effort for the victims. Hm...a typical Singaporean spirit. This company needs pilots. Lots of stories...

You can try REX. However, you "die-die" still have to do licence conversion before they can consider you. That means, you have to come out with you own pocket money.

[thornycactus]

Would u care to PM me your email? and then we msn.
Typical Singaporean like to use 'care to do this, care to do that'. "Care to share...." Readers may find it insincere.

What if people reply, "I don't care". These three words going to end everthing.

Use a little more friendly sentence like "May I have you email address?" or "Shall we chat in the msn". Luckily, you never use "care to chat in msn".

[AvEnthusiast]

Good F88, let's speak globally. What are the oppurtunities for CPL/IR, ME holders with 200 hrs of flight time? any where.

[ltjng]

Taking your first step in Aviation is hard.....you guys who are interested my consider being an instructor for a couple of years, then transfer to airlines afterward.

I may provide some advice and opporunties here in China.

[Coastrider26]

Dear Picmas,

Let me explain some differences in HKG and Danmark (JAA country) Hong Kong has no conversion for a frozen ATPL you either have a CPL or an ATPL it's pretty conservative. If you apply here with a CPL and saying it is a ATPL or something to that extend you made sure your application will end up in the bin, Ok I'm not sure if the person would LOL and roll over the floor.

Point of consideration as easily as it was for me to attack the guy or girl it is for somebody doing recruitment, you do not want to put yourself in a situation like that. I must admit it was not the nicest way to point it out (point taken) TC terms might have been a bit more diplomatical.

Most people do not understand and may not come across the term 'frozen ATPL'. The term 'frozen ATPL' is adopted long time ago. Let me cut the story short, the system is associated with UKCAA system (the syllabus and exminations are based on United Kingdom CAA CAP509). Majority of people (including the HongKees) are ignorant and unfamilar with Malaysia's/Singapore's aviation terms. Perhaps, only those experienced aviators will understand what you wrote.

Now as far as my nationality picmas... Take a guess it's not HKG/PRC, I can read Danska:E

[thornycactus]

Now as far as my nationality picmas... Take a guess it's not HKG/PRC, I can read Danska
You can read Danska but that does not meant that you are a Danish!

Same here, I can read Russian but I am not a Russian.

[AiRBuS_380]

Hi guys,

well what i would recommend will be why not start out on your a flight instructor path and build your way up. From what i know from my colleagues, there are a handful of opportunities in flying schools in SEA. MFA or SFC etc... or even STATA..... 200hrs ATPL frozen self-sponsored shows your passion but you will need a little more in order to go up and compete for a seat in major airlines.

From what i have heard, China is a good and upcoming market but, it is hard to leave an airline once you joined due to their policies.... India on the other hand has a handfull of CPL holders jobless, thus it is not really a good choice from my aspect.

I would suggest that you work your way up since ur not entitle to fly for SQ in its ab intio programme anymore, work your way towards a airline and one day, you will be qualifed to apply back to SQ DEC positions.... Try CX, as i got one friend who got into their cadet pilot scheme and was converted to SO. he is an SFO now with CX.

BTW, Im a singaporean and a self-sponsored one as well.... go all the way and fight for what you need and want!

Cheers.

Hope to see you onboard the national carrier one day!

[ltjng]

Airbus_380 is right, work your way up may be the hardest way when compare to airlines ab-initial.

FI jobs in China is going hot at the moment, let me know if you guys are interested. I have good referrals.

Cheers

[Dan Winterland]

Hong Kong PR status is awarded after 7 years of livng in HK. So that's not an option unless you have a close relative. To get a work Visa, you have to be sponsored. An employer can sponsor you, but the moment, you have way under the minimum requirements for Cathay or Dragonair ex-pat contracts. HK Airways and HK Express have lower requirements, but I don't know what they are.

[zk-npr]

Hi All,
Just had a read through this thread. I work for SIA Cargo as ground staff in AKL and I am always amazed with the variety of nationalities flying the freighters and wonder how they got there.
I am beginning training towards my CPL in a couple of months and I wondered, does anyone know of a thread anywhere on PPrune where experienced airline Pilots have shared the stories of how they got to where they are now? I.E From their very first job to wherever they may be now?

Thanks in advance

[Dan Winterland]

I think there's one in the wannabe's forum. Try a search.


On reflection, the requirement to get a HK ATPL validated from another Aviation Authority's ATPL is 2800hrs. Not sure if this applies to a CPL vlidation. Look on the HK CAD website for requirements.

[thornycactus]

If you are a malaysian, there are many airlines which accept fresh grad with 200 hours. They are
1)Malaysian Airlines 2)Transmile
3)Fireflyz 4)Maswings
5)Singapore Airlines 6)Air Asia

These airlines train their own cadets and accept them with 200 hours.
Those private ones (fresh grads with 200 hours) will leave behind. In another words, "fly kite" first.
Generally, priority will still be given to the Malaysian Malay Muslims. [read my posting (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4032183&postcount=8) <- left click]

[thornycactus]

well what i would recommend will be why not start out on your a flight instructor path and build your way up. From what i
know from my colleagues, there are a handful of opportunities in flying schools in SEA. MFA or SFC etc... or even STATA..... 200hrs ATPL frozen
self-sponsored shows your passion but you will need a little more in order to go up and compete for a seat in major airlines.
Very true! However, applicant must have at least a few thousands hours then able to compete for a seat in major airlines. Unless, damn "bull-penis" lucky! 'Luck' still plays a very-very-very-very important role in job application.

From what i have heard, China is a good and upcoming market but, it is hard to leave an airline once you joined due to their policies.... India on the other hand has a handfull of CPL holders jobless, thus it is not really a good choice from my aspect.
For China, AiRBuS_380 is 3/4 correct. For India market, tons of CPL holders jobless. AiRBuS_380 is fully right!
I would suggest that you work your way up since ur not entitle to fly for SQ in its ab intio programme anymore, work your way
towards a airline and one day, you will be qualifed to apply back to SQ DEC positions.... Try CX, as i got one friend who got into their cadet pilot
scheme and was converted to SO. he is an SFO now with CX.He is a HongKee! Definitely can get into the cadetship! Not amazing at all.
Hope to see you onboard the national carrier one day!You don't even know who is who, how to see them onboard SIA? However, you are polite and encouraging!

[thornycactus]

With the vast job available in malaysia,i guess being a FI is not worth the time.Maybe start with flying props such as firefly or
maswings. As for jet hours, a check on both air asia and MAS website states that they are both open in to accepting fresh 200 hours grad.
Like I said, the Malaysian Malay Muslims have the priority. Even those superb good Malaysian-Chinese with good character, good spoken English, good academic qualification, and good flying experience applicants will always be kicked aside. It is fact!

Does cx Second Officer accept ATR hours?
Application for CX Second Officer needs more than 3000hours! Not any Tom-Dick-Harry with 200 hrs of fATPL can get in.

If CX were to accept Second Officer with 200 hrs of fATPL. Then, whole bunch of both English and Mandarin (Cantonese speaking) language proficiency fATPL (Singaporean and Malaysian ) holders will swarm in to take up the offer!

[thornycactus]

flyhigh88, fantastic! Such an old thread, you are still able to dig it out. :D

[bolueeleh]

1600hours Full ATPL plus 320 rating.....any jobs out there?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: